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Goodison Park

Comments (31)

I'd appreciate it if someone who knows something about the subject could answer the following questions:

1) Is the re-development of Goodison Park possible and feasible?

2) How cheaply could it be done?

3) Would we have to move out during building work?

4) What would our new capacity be?

5) Finally could this be paid for in stages by the proposed fans trust?

Surely a supporters trust raising funds for a new stadium would make us much more attractive to a buyer. To me, this would be the ideal solution... but I am wondering ? is this a pipedream?
Andy Crooks, Belfast     Posted 19/02/2011 at 22:55:11

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Jay Harris
1   Posted 20/02/2011 at 16:06:33

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Michael,
I dont know if there is a way to post this but this is a very interesting article on redeveloping GP.

Ed Note: Err... thanks, Jay. Guess I gotta look see where you got it from before I spend a few hours reformatting it...

Okay... looks like it came from:?

Keep Everton In Our City!

Malcolm Szuplewski
2   Posted 20/02/2011 at 16:38:35

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Wow!
Peter Anthony
3   Posted 20/02/2011 at 16:43:49

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I would have thought an initiative, run by the Club, or another body if necessary, to do two things:

1) Liaise with Liverpool City Council to get the planning permissions;

2) Raise the money for such 'cash positive' schemes (with the facilities desired in a modern stadium, corporate, conference, entertainment facilities etc).

This would be an obvious way to help solve the financial ills. The above scheme seems to provide the 'facility led' financial model we need to compete without selling out to an unknown new owner with the huge risks that would bring.

Can the current Board make 1 and 2 happen any time soon?
Andy Crooks
4   Posted 20/02/2011 at 17:15:23

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Jay, superb. I always thought re-development was impossible. I now know differently. Thank you. How about funding. Can a fans trust do it?
Dave Roberts
5   Posted 20/02/2011 at 17:15:40

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If every supporter pledged about £1,000 to the club, to be paid by direct debit over 3 years if they couldn't pay all at once (about £35 a month) that would provide about £40million.

In return every supporter would get a single share in the club and 10% off season ticket prices for 5 years (or off ticket prices on production of the share certificate or relevant customer number) once the redevelopment was complete. The club should declare itself a charity and supporters would get tax back on the payments. The club would then be owned (I think) by the fans en masse.

£40million would go a long way towards redevelopment. Board members and other wealthy bastards could pay a bit more for extra shares.

Or am I living in cloud cuckoo land?

Please advise.
Dave Roberts
6   Posted 20/02/2011 at 17:28:07

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......PS. Just thought on, any income for this would have to be RINGFENCED!
Dave Wilson
7   Posted 20/02/2011 at 17:21:11

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Super stuff Jay

We missed a sitter when the Old Park End was flattened. We will never get a better chance to move the pitch.
Graham Duffy
8   Posted 20/02/2011 at 17:46:36

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Very detailed, too detailed for me!

Can anyone give a brief overview of it?
Michael Brien
9   Posted 20/02/2011 at 17:23:50

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Jay - lost for words, absolutely brilliant response to those who believe redevelopment of Goodison Park is just for the dreamers.

I have been on "street view" to show one of my work colleagues the wasted area behind the Park Stand. In my opinion we could have looked seriously at constructing a stand at that end of the ground similar in size/capacity to the one at Villa Park - I think it may still be called the Holte End. There are no houses immediately behind the Park Stand and so a larger structure could have been built.

It pains me to say it but I think Manchester United have done a very good job in the redevelopment of Old Trafford. It looks as if it was built at the same time and not over a period of several years. They clearly had an overall plan or vision and kept to that.

Goodison Park could be restored to its former glory if Everton had a long term plan of redevelopment and a vision. How sad that such vision has been lacking. When I first went to Goodison as a 7 year old in 1964 of course the blue criss-cross paterns made an impression. It looked as if it had all been built in "one go" - like that from the start. But the stadium had been developed over a number of years.
1) The old Park End Stand was built I think in the early 1900's.
2) The old Goodison Road Stand - where I had my 1st season ticket in 1966-67 - was built I think in 1909 - the date was on the gable if I recall correctly.
3) Bullens Road Stand was built in the mid 1920's
4) Gwladys Street Stand I think was 1938.
So the old Goodison - that hosted a World Cup Semi Final was created over a period of nearly 3 decades.

The same approach could be used now. A dream ? Well perhaps the game needs more dreamers or people with vision.

Jay mentioned Archibald Leitch - one of the great names in football stadium development. I wonder if some of the designers/architects of some of the modern characterless stadiums of the current era will be remember with such fondness?
Charles King
10   Posted 20/02/2011 at 17:50:21

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Jay

Well done mate, meat on the bone for those of us who intuitively know a stadium circa 50k capacity is both feasible and economic on our hallowed ground.
Well within the realm of possibilities via a shareholding stake as already mentioned...... get in there.
Andrew Lawrenson
11   Posted 20/02/2011 at 18:06:05

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It took me that long to read #1 and even longer to understand it, we could've built a stadium.....
Gavin Ramejkis
12   Posted 20/02/2011 at 17:39:15

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Ever wondered what non Evertonians have thought about it in the past ? Plus some great pictures of what the old lady used to look like and previous construction work pictures (Michael I'd love a section on here for old images of Goodison through the ages)

http://footballgroundguide.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14337&st=0
Trevor Skempton
13   Posted 20/02/2011 at 19:14:05

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Andy, the simple answers are:

[1] Yes [this was KEIOC's 'Option A' at the Public Inquiry]

[2] Probably no cheaper than a new stadium elsewhere, but with the big advantage that it can be done in affordable stages over a long period in accordance with a proper development plan.

[3] Not necessarily.

I favour a 'Conservation Option' in which much of the fabric of the historic Leitch Stands is retained ? these should be International tourist attractions in their own right ? and there is minimal disruption to the surrounding streets which could become a 'Conservation Area'. Most of the new construction would be behind the Park End and Bullens Road Stands and could be carried out during the playing season without disruption to the games or attendance figures.

[4] Between 48,000 and 58,000 depending on method adopted.

[5] Funding a phased development would, of course, be easier.

Gavin Ramejkis
14   Posted 20/02/2011 at 19:34:30

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Trevor, both yourself and Tom deserve a standing round of applause, the common sense behind this plan and others are the self-funding element of the later phases which would see later stages continued or paused to suit the needs of that time. I've spent many an evening at Ibrox whilst I worked at Faslane and love the way they have kept their Leitch components. I've also wondered about the conservation of such elements from a historic / listing perspective.
Tom Hughes
15   Posted 20/02/2011 at 19:25:01

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This is an old article.... one part of a series which all include, sketches, scale drawings and 3-D CAD renders. This particular one is probably more easily read using the web addresses below, unfortunately the drawings were seperated from the text which doesn't help the explanations etc:

http://www.keioc.net/index.php?page=redevelopment-plans

http://www.keioc.net/index.php?page=technical-drawings

http://www.keioc.net/index.php?page=external-renderings

Charles King
16   Posted 20/02/2011 at 20:02:17

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Hear Hear, Gavin.

May I add my thanks Trevor and Tom, the effect if we transformed Goodison, retaining the priceless heritage, would be a massive shot in the arm to this club.
Phil Bellis
17   Posted 20/02/2011 at 20:27:34

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Dave,
I've asked about this before ? the idea of supporters donating a fixed amount to the club with the proviso it's not wasted by this amateur Board. The general concensus is that the Board won't sanction anything that involves giving the donor a "share" as it dilutes the value of existing shares. (?)

My counter is sod the share ? just have your own or a loved one's name on a scroll of honour or on a brick/ plaque on the new structure.

As for cloud cuckoo, I don't think you need worry. I was on a contract in Edinburgh during part of the DK debacle and, amongst the workforce were 12 ex-pat Blues, all of whom said they'd be willing to donate to such a scheme to help our club. I'm amazed on my travels how many Blues there are nationally and worldwide and, strangely, they're all as Everton-daft as me and you, it seems!

Malcolm Szuplewski
18   Posted 20/02/2011 at 20:44:23

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Gavin

Didn't the ground look gorgeous in the late 30s?
Gavin Ramejkis
19   Posted 20/02/2011 at 20:59:50

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Malcolm, she's always looked good to me but would love a section here with whatever photos people can dig up through the ages, she has always been landlocked but the clearing from the Park End was wasted when we didn't make use of it. Car parks underground with a structure over them such common sense.
Jay Harris
20   Posted 20/02/2011 at 20:27:43

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I can only take credit for posting it guys.

All the credit for the work behind it belongs to two very loyal and capable Evertonians (Tevor and Tom) who the club have chosen to ignore... clocking up £4.5 million in "expert fees" on a diabolical non-starter instead.
Jay Harris
21   Posted 20/02/2011 at 22:05:27

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I have the original in Adobe PDF if michael wants to forward my email to anyone I would be glad to send it to anyone who requests it.
Guy Rogers
22   Posted 20/02/2011 at 22:40:02

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The letter written by Tom Hughes on the KEIOC website is SPECTACULAR!

It makes total sense and i have re-read it about 3 times.

If only I had already made my millions I would love to be Everton's sugar daddy and build us a new stadium... fingers crossed this Tesco guy has us in mind! Makes you think, "Why didn't this happen 10 years ago?" I guess they were too worried we were going to get relegated; shortsighted if you ask me!
Andy Crooks
23   Posted 20/02/2011 at 23:39:20

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Jay, I am grateful that you have given me the chance to read this. When one does not live in Liverpool sometimes you really feel that you don't know what is going on.It seems to me that the Kirby disaster was totally misguided. A divisive waste of money for which the perpetrators have suffered no comeback.
If it were not for this site myself and many overseas supporters would rely on the official site for any information. What is worrying is the fact many Evertonians, and I know a few, take the official site as gospel.
David Thomas
24   Posted 21/02/2011 at 00:10:46

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Andy,

Whilst i agree that everything read on the official site should not be taken as gospel, i would say worryingly as well is the fact that certain people seem to take what is stated on this site as gospel.
Jay Harris
25   Posted 21/02/2011 at 04:58:40

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Cheers Andy.

IMO knowledge is to be shared and we all owe a debt of gratitude to the much maligned guys at KEIOC who have put so much effort into their passion for the club. It makes me sick when I see Kenwright milking any limelight that comes our way and continuously treating fans with contempt.
Gavin Ramejkis
26   Posted 21/02/2011 at 08:06:31

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David #24, and there's a lot of guff from folk still pops up every now and then about DK and BK being great which is quickly dismissed by perfectly good facts. There is a world of difference between subjectivity and factual based discussion.
David Thomas
27   Posted 21/02/2011 at 09:20:16

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Gavin,

I agree there has been a lot of guff written about DK and Bill Kenwright.

My point was simply that whilst you should not take everything that is on the official site as gospel the same can also be said about this site as well.

For example we had someone recently telling us that the players had not been paid for a couple of months which i think we would all agree was in fact a load of bollocks. Or we were told that the club was hours away from administration. I think we can both agree that that was simply not true.
Gavin Ramejkis
28   Posted 21/02/2011 at 10:36:51

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True David, but the deafening silence from the club itself over the last few months has left more than a bitter taste in everyone's mouth. They removed any form of dialogue with shareholders some time ago so, when a rumour starts, it's likely to be fanned very quickly. We tend to hear collectively far more from contributors on this site (selected ones such as Colin Fitzpatrick) than we'd ever hear from the official site.

As you say, pinch of salt unless you are an avid reader of certain contributors but even then you still retain the power of choice over what you believe and what you don't given previous form. I don't think the club was hours away from administration but I also don't think we are years away from it either.

Steven Astley
29   Posted 21/02/2011 at 12:35:23

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As it was a Labour cabinet minister who kibosh'd the project and seeing as though there is now a new government in power, is there no room or are we not allowed to resubmit the Kirkby plans to see if they get approved this time?
Robert Daniels
30   Posted 21/02/2011 at 21:17:46

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Steven @ 29,

You are 'avin a laugh, aren't you?

Resubmit the DK plans?

Yes, definitely 'avin a laugh, you had me goin' there for a minute!
Jim Lloyd
31   Posted 21/02/2011 at 23:47:44

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Steven, don't even go along that road. Kirkby would have killed our club.

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