I have called for David Moyes to be removed as manager of Everton for some time. The response from his supporters (and there are many brilliant defences) often raises the question who will replace him. I don't think this is a fair response but I believe , that for the huge salary on offer, we could do better. Who could replace him ? Well what do you think:
Positives: Proven international coach who can get the best out of average players. Good disciplinarian with contacts who might just provide some eastern European bargains.
Negatives: Left a sour taste in the mouths of many Evertonians.
Positives: World class player who has a record of achieving success with a lower league club on a tight budget. International experience with good youth contacts.
Negatives. Away from the premier league for a while.
Positives: Magnificent record against the odds both in Scotland and at Burnley. Has transformed Bolton and plays the game the right way.
Positives: Proven winner. Passionate, articulate and an imaginative coach.
Negatives: Wants money to spend and may not spend it wisely.
Positives: Knows what a crisis is all about. Plays good football and is doing a fine job with a side who have exceeded expectations.
Positives: Good record in Scotland. Turned Norwich around. Strong on discipline, plays nice football.
For those who I feel have no negatives I am ruling out the lack of top-level experience as a negative, after all., David Moyes had none.
I do not believe that David Moyes will leave in the foreseeable future. If and when he goes why should the future be so bleak? There is life after Moyes... and Kenwright.
Andy Crooks, Posted 03/03/2011 at 19:02:34
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1 Posted 04/03/2011 at 04:16:29
IMO, with the same group of players, not one of those is as good as Moyes at his best.
WE really need new owners who will look for and back the likes of Pelegrino, Hitzfeld or Ancellotti or more risky Otto Rehagel or Hassan Shehata of Egypt .(I've forgotten the name of that rookie who is fast becoming a legend in Europe too.)
Some of them are not experienced in the Premier League, which I do see as a disadvantage, but they have all proved to be top class coaches under varying circumstances.
2 Posted 04/03/2011 at 04:44:37
Me, I think the "Punches Above His Weight" thing has finally begun to wear him down. After last season's second half, I'd say most of us felt we were one or two players away from the final leap upward. Moyes might not have said it that way, but it seemed he thought so too. Not only did nothing happen, but players were dumped through strictly financial considerations.
So, here's Moyes finding himself re-building again after 9 years. I absolutely believe we have a bunch of talented youngsters, but talented youngsters playing in the toughest league on earth? Not easy. He does look fried. Maybe he has to go, but not because there are managers who could do better under the same circumstances he's managed under at EFC.
3 Posted 04/03/2011 at 05:26:53
All this club needs is investment/takeover, sacking the manager is not the fix.
I also think the players seem to be the ones who are the last to blame.... When they cross the line its upto them to perform....
4 Posted 04/03/2011 at 05:42:29
Also, if ever our club is managed by that twat Martin O'Neill, I will cry for a year. His sideline antics are enough to make me puke, and the fact he wears footy boots when he is watching from the bench confirms he is a tool.
5 Posted 04/03/2011 at 05:35:34
That being the case, I think Moyes would resign in the close season because he is unlikely to have any funds to rebuild and unlikely to have the will to do it under Kenwright anyway.
For now, we have to ensure we stay in the league. I don't think there is much chance of him being sacked or leaving during the last couple of months of the season, so it's making the best of what we have.
If another buyer for the club does come in, with finances, should he stay? There is no doubt that the lack of funds have limited his choices and the ability to rebuild. He has tried to make a silk purse from a sow's ear... I fear we now have a team with pigs feet... His stock is falling in the eyes of many, and he is partly to blame for this demise, but the majority blame is with the club (kenwright).
We had a manager who put a team together but let it go past its sell by date. By choice or by necessity its not worked. You can see he has juggled the team badly at times, he is stubborn in his view but step back a sec and see that hoofball is gone (almost, someone tell jags) and the team tries to play football. But it's his persistence to play players out of natural position, to play players who frankly are either not good enough or past it and an addiction to a negative shape that makes it difficult to see a way ahead.
Lastly, a serious failing. Moyes is a strong leader and obviously takes no bullshit from anyone in the changing room or in the training pitch. The problem is, the games are played on the park. We do not have a credible leader that drives the team on the pitch. Perhaps that's because Moyes has to be in total control... he needs a bloody good Sgt Major on the pitch, not a bunch of corporals.
6 Posted 04/03/2011 at 06:49:50
Above points have it. I like the look of Owen Coyle but I don't think he is any better than Moyes.
John has it above ? Moyes has his flaws, so does our off-field business but above all else we just need some money in the bank.
7 Posted 04/03/2011 at 07:20:42
All we can hope for is survival these days and Moyes provides that consistently.... It's shite at the moment and we all know it is, but the team isn't good enough to win anything no matter who is in charge.
I think if we sack Moyes (before he jumps ship), we'll end up with a clown like Villa or the Barcodes have and where will we end up then FFS...?!?!?!?!?
I just don't know, and frankly I'm past caring.
8 Posted 04/03/2011 at 07:27:02
Positives: World class player, excellent coach.
Negatives: Cuckoo! Cuckoo! Cuckoo!
9 Posted 04/03/2011 at 08:17:10
10 Posted 04/03/2011 at 08:10:32
11 Posted 04/03/2011 at 08:23:11
12 Posted 04/03/2011 at 08:32:51
13 Posted 04/03/2011 at 08:44:30
14 Posted 04/03/2011 at 08:23:26
Owen Coyle's Bolton are only 4 points ahead of us ... and we have a game in hand. If we win that game in hand there is only 1 point in it. I'd wait until the end of the season to see how the Premier League table looks before judging them. Funny how everyone is perceiving them to be something special whilst we are 'shite'.
As for O'Neill, well he had a lot more money to spend than Moyes and even then, Villa were only our equals. Why will he do better at Everton than he did at Villa, and with less money?
15 Posted 04/03/2011 at 08:53:32
I don't think anybody could do a better job at Everton in the current circumstances, but if he was to get fed up with it all and leave, I'd like to see that fella at Blackpool come in. At least he'd entertain us.
16 Posted 04/03/2011 at 08:51:53
Amost any manager can string two wins together and we all start pointing going "HIM!! HIM!! HIM!! HIM!!!" until he loses two to someone else and then we turn, point and proclaim "HIM!! HIM!! HIM!!" again.
There is undoubtedly need for change at the club, I personally think the ownership is the starting point and we take it from there all the way down if necessary. One step at a time though.....
17 Posted 04/03/2011 at 08:54:35
Bilic, Coyle, Lambert, Poyet. They are all at clubs, therefore they will have to have compo paid to them. We can't even afford to buys players so how do you expect to be able to afford a new manager?
With the experiance point, I think this is now crucial. This season has been poor, accepted, but we are, as a team, a long way in front of where we were when Moyes took over. Bringing in someone with little experience, certainly at the top would be a very negative and risky step.
Ultimately though I agree with the above. With the poor financial backing of the current board, none of the above you mention could do a much better job than what Moyes is doing. They may have an initial effect but it would be permanent.
18 Posted 04/03/2011 at 09:00:22
Disclaimer: This post is full of irony!
19 Posted 04/03/2011 at 09:03:40
Let's face it, though, Moyes is staying put, and for one of the first times, I called for his head against Reading. No skill, pace or imagination to break down a side, at home, who are struggling in the Championship, and we have seen it too often.
20 Posted 04/03/2011 at 08:59:52
21 Posted 04/03/2011 at 09:18:21
22 Posted 04/03/2011 at 09:22:11
23 Posted 04/03/2011 at 09:36:03
I too would like to see what Moyes could do with a bit of money to go out and improve the squad but I just could not believe it when I heard he would never sell Osman and Hibbett. Seasoned pros, yes and True Blue Boys but surely we must move on and get better players. Ok of late Osman has shown a bit of form but is never consistent.
24 Posted 04/03/2011 at 10:08:15
25 Posted 04/03/2011 at 09:56:58
Question: Who is Moyes answerable to, in his team selection? No-one. Have we got a director of football? No.
David Moyes is only 47 years of age and imo still learning, but does he know it all?
26 Posted 04/03/2011 at 09:55:45
Sadly the seeds of this year's poor performance were apparent in our 'great unbeaten run' in the second half of last season. If you split the run between 'with Landon' and 'post Landon' you see the number of wins decreased in the latter period, and the number of disappointing draws against inferior teams were a feature of this period too. Moyes will have known that I'm sure.
I suspect he was being realistic in terms of the club's finances, but has chosen to show solidarity with his employers to his own detriment.
What is abundantly clear is that this is a poor team ? no excuses about inconsistency, not showing up, no leaders ? it's just a poor team, possibly aggravated by poor selection, team structure, substitution.
DM is now at a personal crossroads. Arguably, this team peaked two seasons ago, and seems to be headed in one direction. His choice will be a career-defining one. Stay and start all over again with no cash... or leave if he can find a better berth while he still retains an aura of success.
Let's all watch this space.
27 Posted 04/03/2011 at 11:17:02
Billy loves a talker, and I'm lead to believe that, when it comes to job interviews, no-one blows smoke up a Chairman's arse better than Big Sam.
28 Posted 04/03/2011 at 10:59:54
The fact he still obviously cares despite the daily shit he has to put up with from the incompetents who work for supposedly the good of this football club, ie, the chairman and the CEO, is a testimony to the man's character. Acclaimed 'great' managers like Benitez and O'Neill used to spend half their Friday press conferences moaning about the lack of support they were receiving from above.
Until Kenwright sells up to someone in a better financial position than himself, then this club is only going one way and that's eventually the Championship. You cannot stay in this league selling your best players each year and replacing them with free transfers. We will fall through the trap door within 5 years with this management policy.
29 Posted 04/03/2011 at 11:31:19
And I agree with you, Mike, too. If we lost Moyes now, I think Big Sam would come in. He is desperate to get back into management, talks the talk... but unfortunately for us is SHIT!
30 Posted 04/03/2011 at 12:09:47
31 Posted 04/03/2011 at 12:29:52
I agree it's time he moves on but do you think he will quit anytime soon? Not likely. And without investment we could not afford the wages of even a half decent manager.
Moyes couldn't bring in any loan signings or free agents because we could not afford their wages We are stuck with him unfortunately.
32 Posted 04/03/2011 at 12:48:11
I?m not pro-Moyes, he has done an okay job in crap conditions, but conditions he was fully aware of, let's not forget. He signed his latest contract with his eyes wide open to the task ahead.
David Moyes has been doing this job for nearly 9 years with one hand tied to his balls. The problem is what he's done with his other hand at times has had most fans scratching their heads. He is dour, tactically aloof, very reactionary, and at times follows rather than leads. At times he can be brilliant ? look at Man City away, he had the players so fired up we destroyed them 2-0 and on top of that he nearly chinned Mancini. But then there are matches like Fiorentina away and the FA Cup Final where we meekly waved the white flag, crushed by the weight of negativity and the inferiorty complex that goes with.
I sense now, though, Moyes is getting tired and jaded. The energy he once infused into the players has gone, enthusiasm and hope has been replaced with frustration and the stark realisation that he can?t work the miracle every week.
I think Moyes should steer this ship to safety then resign, waving any compensation. It?s the decent proper thing to do and if Moyes is the man of integrity, I think he is, he should fall on his sword at the last game of the season.
The performance against Reading was proof enough for me Moyes can no longer inspire the players. It was the worst performance I have ever seen, it wasn?t bad, it was shameful.
To carry on would be dangerous and foolhardy. The atmosphere is now sour and getting more nasty, I don?t want to see Moyes getting foul language and grief from our fans. But he will get it eventually if the shameful performances continue.
Although Everton as a club is in decline, if the manager's position became vacant, we would have a lot of hats thrown into the ring. We would appeal to a lot of managers as, despite what BSkyB think, we are STILL a big club with history and pride.
I would like to see Neil Warnock given a chance at a big club; controversial choice... but hey, it's just my opinion.
But let's face it, players and mangers may come and go but it looks like Kenwright will be here for a long, long, long time.
33 Posted 04/03/2011 at 12:38:46
Bilic ? Only done anything with the Croatia team that has top top players, a total mercenary, no Premier League experience, and he started his own boyband. Also, he would have no money to spend and a small and limited squad.
Hoddle ? "Success with lower league Premier side"... really, when and who? Also mad as a bag of rats, god-bothering hands-on healing nut job, no respect in this country anymore because of this and would have no money to spend and a limited squad.
Owen Coyle ? Probably the pick of this ridiculous bunch but currently at a club and hasn't achieved anywhere near what Moyes has. Not sure that after Walter Smith and David Moyes I would go for another Scotsman either. Also wouldn't have any money to spend and a small and limited squad.
Martin O'Neill ? "Imaginative football"... are you for real!!! 1980s style route-one long-ball football, left Villa because they wouldn't give him anymore money after he spent in one season what Moyes has probably spent in the last 4 ? and I personally think he's a complete twat of the highest order. Also would have no money to spend and a small and limited squad.
Gus Poyet ? No experience, no better than Moyes... no, no, no, no, no. Also no money to spend and a small and limited squad.
Paul Lambert ? No experience, no better than Moyes, Scottish... no, no, no. Also no money to spend and small and limited squad.
The best we can hope is that Moyes doesn't walk at the end of the season. He, like many of us, felt we had a decent squad for this season. Unfortunately we had no fit strikers at the start other than Div 1 free transfer Jermaine Beckford. This is because YET AGAIN, MOYES WAS GIVEN NO MONEY TO SPEND BY BILL KENWRIGHT. To stand still in the Premier League is to go backwards.
Moyes appears a broken man now; it's a shame to see and in some ways I hope he does leave for his own sake. When we have our first choice team out, we are capable of playing some pretty tidy football. But not only did we not sign anyone at the start of the season but in January we were forced to offload Yakubu, Pienaar, Vaughan and we also lost Gosling at the start of the season because of sheer ineptitude. The blame for this lies solely at Bill Kenwright's door and the people HE employs to run the club!!
34 Posted 04/03/2011 at 12:51:47
What about the amount of bile & venom you spit his way on the matchday forum every week, Daniel??
Neil Warnock?? Do me a favour!! Why not Sam Allardyce altogether??
35 Posted 04/03/2011 at 13:08:11
36 Posted 04/03/2011 at 13:42:06
Each has a reason to say yes. None would turn it down flat. Incidentally, all those people who keep insisting that all DM needs is a couple of hundred million in the transfer kitty should remember this: the very first thing any incoming billionaire would do (after asking where the bog is) would be to fire him in favor of someone who already knows how to spend that kind of money wisely. So be careful what you wish for.
37 Posted 04/03/2011 at 13:46:29
He also came through some horendous personal pressures, showing great dignity in the process. He is a former Everton player and I think he would love the opportunity at Goodison. He also has unfinished business when it comes to the ,Premier League.
38 Posted 04/03/2011 at 13:34:20
We need new owners, we need fresh ideas etc ? we all know that ? but Moyes's performance this season as a manager has been disgraceful. He stated when he let Yakubu go that he did not have to. Also Vaughan, who has never been given a run of games. That's left us with Saha who isn't reliable, Beckford who's unproven, and Anichebe, who's a League 1 player at best. This itself, along with his negative tactics and bizzare team selection and substitutions, shows why we need a fresh approach.
I think he will walk anyway, he knows this summer we will sell Rodwell and Felliani. I think anyone of them listed managers would do better in our preparation and make us attack and play our bloody players in their rightful positions.
I still feel, if we don't get a new owner in the summer, a new manager like a Owen Coyle, Martin Jol would come in and do a better job. Say we do sell Rodwell and Fellaini with Moyes in charge still, that's his excuses in place for next season. A new man would come in, still with very good players at his disposal, and be positive with what we have got. Moyes this season has sickened me with his downbeat press conferences and that stare of defeat on the sideline.
Martin Jol in this summer with a bit of the money from the Fellaini and Rodwell sales, we could line up with, Howard, Coleman, Jags, Distin, Baines, Krancjar, Arteta, Witsel, Jarvis, Cahill, Yakubu. I feel he could get that side playing some great entertaining attacking football and also push us back up to the top 6.
Ideally we need a change at both ends: owner and manager... but come summer that's the least I feel has to happen or we will continue to go backwards with a man who's lost the fight and battle he once had. COYB!!!
39 Posted 04/03/2011 at 14:36:34
40 Posted 04/03/2011 at 14:56:24
How did he do at Spurs, Wolves and even Southampton (where he was seen as a success)!
41 Posted 04/03/2011 at 14:54:45
42 Posted 04/03/2011 at 15:10:46
43 Posted 04/03/2011 at 14:57:52
You also need to remember most managers possess an ego and would probably back their own ability to come in and turn things around. No matter how dire things are at the moment, Everton are still a big name in English football with a rich history, a loyal fan base desperate for success, and still manage to attract crowds of well over 30,000 every home game. It's not like they're being asked to spend their days sponging down the world's fattest woman. There are still enough tempting features left to get some managers cock hard at the prospect.
An incoming manager would not necessarily be fearful of having no guaranteed transfer budget either. They would have no loyalty whatsoever to the current crop of players and would therefore have no qualms about shipping out the dead wood / under-performers in order to generate some funds to play with.
So yeah, I agree there is life after David Moyes. I would be reluctant to consider Paul Lambert though Andy, simply because I'm a superstitious sod. The prospect of a promising, up and coming manager who has worked wonders at Norwich and got them playing attacking, passing football to boot? Jesus, it's like someone has just walked over my grave and the culprit is none other than Micky Walker, resplendent in a naff 1994 Everton trackie with his wispy white hair blowing gently in the breeze and a totally bemused look on his terrahawks like face.
44 Posted 04/03/2011 at 15:21:28
And I agree with an earlier post that Moyes is the best man for the job, he's proven it. It's Kenwright that's the problem.
Come on you Blues.
45 Posted 04/03/2011 at 15:09:35
Now, whilst money obviously plays a huge part, I thought coaching was about tactics, reading the game, techinical ability, getting the best out of players, etc?
The question for me, is there anybody out there who could have done a better job than Moyes with this squad?
And I'm afraid the answer is Yes.
46 Posted 04/03/2011 at 15:57:43
I think the OP was a good summary of who's out there.
47 Posted 04/03/2011 at 16:11:47
There are no free coaches that are better than Moyes. Better in the sense they have some trophies to back up that they are better. Because they are at a club they would take a huge amount of expense to prize away.
For example, Mourhino is proven. Coyle is a good coach but not proven so how can people say he will be better than Moyes.
48 Posted 04/03/2011 at 16:27:36
I think Eddie Howe would be like a breath of fresh air at Everton, especially if we are looking at replacing Moyes with the current board still in charge.
He has worked wonders at Burnley in a short space of time and was excellent before that at Northampton (?).
49 Posted 04/03/2011 at 16:33:17
We do not have midfield power and with the offensive injuries and absenteeism, it fell on the midfield to help with the goals. When Coleman and Osman operate on the wide midfield, we lack strength in the tackle. Yes, I know Coleman is a defender but he really doesn't defend well. The same can be said of Bily. Arteta and Fellaini are very inconsistent and sloppy with their passing.
These problems have contributed greatly to many poor results this season. Moyes must know this but has been unable to rectify it. Other fringe players are not given a look in. A new manager could at least bring new ideas and possibly new players to implement the ideas on the pitch. He may have to sell players to bring in new ones but it has to happen as this squad is not good enough by a long chalk.
50 Posted 04/03/2011 at 17:05:22
They wouldn't blame him even if we suffer relegation.
I'd have any of your options at the moment.
51 Posted 04/03/2011 at 18:18:56
What do people think about that ?
52 Posted 04/03/2011 at 18:45:26
Martin Oneil or Sam Allardyce would be worth a chance if Moyes goes. Remember, Moyes came from the obscurity of Preston and did well for a few years but he has nothing left. He seems to act as if he has already been pencilled in as a manager elsewhere soon.
53 Posted 04/03/2011 at 19:09:41
As for the huge salary on offer, well David Moyes is paid that in recognition of the good work his paymasters (and a significant amount of others ? myself included, on the whole) think he has done for the club. If he is sacked, he'll still be getting paid some, or all, of that in compensation. So, there won't be £65k a week waiting for any of the excellent out-of-work managers, who may be champing at the bit, to come to our club and work with no finances to add depth to the excellent (but under-performing) squad that we have.
ps: I don't think of myself as a "Moyes apologist", I just think that the blame for our current predicament doesn't lie with the manager.
54 Posted 04/03/2011 at 19:33:32
55 Posted 04/03/2011 at 19:40:28
Bilic - Only done anything with the Croatia team that has top top players, a total mercenary, no premier league experience and he started his own boyband. Also, he would have no money to spend and a small and limited squad."
Firstly, Croatia battered England at Wembley and the football they played that night was superb. 2nd, the 4-1 away victory was a one-off, ie, England rubbish ever since.
Just look at Bilic's face. He looks a right evil bastard. next look at the Eastern Euro players that would play out of their (there) skin for him, week-in, week-out, let alone the Royal Blue of Everton. This guy is as cold and non-forgiving as it gets. He doesn't do favourites. Play shite for 0.5 of a nanosecond and you're cleaning the Goodison toilets.
That's the regime we want and need at this club. And of course, this guy will tell BK to get his hand in his pocket PD fucking Q or else Fuck Off.
Don't forget that Steve (tea boy) Round will also be aware of what a P45 is and therefore an attacking No 2 will be acquired.
Prior to every game of course the No 2 will be instructed to tell all players to drink blood and have numerous amounts of oral dribbles on show when the hand shake shite happens prior to said game.
Of course if Bilic fails then all the Goodison villagers will be demonstrating outside the main office with firery lit torches.
In short, Bilic is a twat ? that's why I want him at Goodison.
56 Posted 04/03/2011 at 20:56:16
And your basing all this on looking at his face through your TV screen?
"Firstly, Croatia battered England at Wembley and the football they played that night was superb. 2nd, the 4-1 away victory was a one-off, ie, England rubbish ever since.
Just look at Bilic's face. He looks a right evil bastard. next look at the Eastern Euro players that would play out of their (there) skin for him, week-in, week-out, let alone the Royal Blue of Everton. This guy is as cold and non-forgiving as it gets. He doesn't do favourites. Play shite for 0.5 of a nanosecond and you're cleaning the Goodison toilets."
How do you know this? What evidence are you basing this on?
"In short Bilic is a twat ? that's why I want him at Goodison."
On what evidence are you basing your assumption that the man is a "twat" on? Can you give us some incidents / examples of this or are you simply basing this on the fact that he is from Eastern Europe?
57 Posted 04/03/2011 at 23:18:37
58 Posted 05/03/2011 at 04:28:40
59 Posted 05/03/2011 at 04:33:03
How would SAF done better with EFC this season? Or Mourinho? You spoke of tactics, etc? Have at it. Where would we be right now if one of those 2 geniuses held the reins instead of Moyes? Don't be "afraid the answer is yes". How would Ferguson or Mourinho do with EFC's current talent pool?
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