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The Mail Bag

Brian Reade today

Comments (71)

I make a point, every Saturday of picking up the Daily Mirror after I open up my shop. The reason I do this is to catch Brian Reade's sports column, which is in the Mirror most Saturdays.

Reade is a Liverpool fan, but always seems to hit the nail on the head with whatever situation he is writing about. This week is no different "Lose Moyes and the roof could fall in on despairing Evertonians" is his main story this week. It's a fantastic article which gives a true outside perspective of Everton.

I couldn't find the article on the Mirrors' website and am typing this on my mobile phone, so can't really type up the article myself. But I'd recommend any Evertonian to try and read this today if they can.

Tony Hale, Liverpool     Posted 05/03/2011 at 08:43:35

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Neil Adderley
1   Posted 05/03/2011 at 14:31:04

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James Hollister
2   Posted 05/03/2011 at 14:31:31

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"Lose Moyes and the roof could fall in on despairing Evertonians"

Keeping the man is hindering any progress we might make in the future imo.

I don't think in all honest funding is the real issue, I think it's more to do with the limited "skills" he has a manager.

If we lost him, and I sincerely hope we do and soon, we might end up with a better, positive manager who might genuinely try to achieve something.

I don't think we'll ever win anything with Moyes, and I think his lack of abilities to change, or to improve up on his abilities bodes well for us now or in the future.

In reality, I don't think we could get rid of him financially, and I don't think he'd walk either because, let's be brutally honest here, no-one would pay him the over-inflated wages he gets now for doing nothing.
Ray Roche
3   Posted 05/03/2011 at 14:43:52

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"We might end up with a better, positive manager who might genuinely try to achieve something."


Sam Allardyce.
David Mathieson
4   Posted 05/03/2011 at 14:38:49

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This is from the same paper that a few days ago claimed Gaddafi was an Everton fan. ?Gaddafi's love of the Toffees is said to have begun when Everton visited Libya on tour in 1979. The dictator was so impressed he immediately changed the Libyan national side's kit to all-blue, and rewarded each of Gordon Lee's side with a luxury Arabic carpet.?

It is by far the worst of all the Red Tops. I would not wipe my arse with that paper, no Everton fan should ever buy it. All they ever do is promote MUFC and Liverpool.

As for the article in question am sure a Liverpool fan would be more than happy for us to have another nine years of Moyes, no doubt a Liverpool fan come up with the Gaddafi idea... scumbags.

Steve Guy
5   Posted 05/03/2011 at 15:12:35

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He's actually only saying what most have said in past few weeks, real change requires Kenwright to bugger off. Changing manager might produce a short-term upturn, but the overall decline would continue.
Ian Kearney
6   Posted 05/03/2011 at 15:51:31

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Brian Reade is a one-eyed Benitez sycophant, whose every column is usually more of a Liverpool fanzine than what you expect from a national sports journalist.

He does in some repects seem to at least be in touch with Evertonians' feelings though, unlike most journos who comment on us.
Peter Fearon
7   Posted 05/03/2011 at 16:00:47

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My dad told me that if a kopite (like Brian Reade) ever gave me advice, I should do the exact opposite. If they were smart, they wouldn't be kopites... and if they had some good advice to hand out, they wouldn't give it to a true Blue. I have followed that advice all my life and it has never let me down.

All these kopite pundits in the media said the exact same thing about Walter Smith. If Walter Smith was ever fired, they all said ? to a man ? Everton would be relegated within a season. They WANT us to be mediocrities.

Declan Brown
8   Posted 05/03/2011 at 16:38:18

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I'd have Mark Hughes in an instant!!!
Ray Roche
9   Posted 05/03/2011 at 17:22:22

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I'd have Mark Hughes put against a wall and shot. In an instant.
Ron Broadstairs
10   Posted 05/03/2011 at 17:19:26

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It's a Liverpool supporter's opinion of Everton, it carries the same value as an Evertonians view of Hicks and Gillette, the knighthood deserving investors from America.
Andy Crooks
11   Posted 05/03/2011 at 18:17:39

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Why do some Evertonians see Sam Allardyce as some sort of cloud hanging over Everton? He won't be here. If Neil Lennon quits Celtic, which for his own sanity he should, a chain of events just might unfold which could be good for Everton...
Eugene Ruane
12   Posted 05/03/2011 at 17:27:32

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I think Reade IS generally a cut above most of the pitiful spoofers who pass for journalists these days.

He will at least offer an opinion and pointing out the difference between how (many/some) Evertonians see BK and Moyes and how they're perceived by the media generally (ie: like Mother Theresa and Braveheart) at least shows some insight.

However the idea that the roof falls in if Moyes and Rodwell leave is pure gibberish.

First of all it assumes that there isn't another (young) Moyes out there.

It also assumes that no other manager (in the world!) could do better (even with limited resources).

And by inference, it assumes that we keep Moyes or die.

As I said, gibberish.

I'm one of those who had a lot of time for Moyes (well 6 years) and still think he's a decent enough human being.

However the reality is, he's basically out of ideas (and reliable/stoic as he might be, he was never the most imaginative man to begin with)

I think him going and us getting a fresh face in would not guarantee anything but it WOULD be fresh and right now there is a staleness and/or predictability about everything he does.

(I also think it would be better for HIM - six months off, new challenge, etc).

As for Rodwell, I think even the most naive of Evertonians knows the score.

We ARE a selling club and if the 'right' offer comes for him (or anyone else) we'll sell.

That's not going to change until fat-head has gone.

Nevertheless, we didn't die when Rooney went (or Pienaar or Lescott or Gosling etc) and we'll still be here if Rodwell goes.

Adam Bennett
13   Posted 05/03/2011 at 18:06:37

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I read this too while in the cafe this morning. Great article for me. Saying that we have a directionless board, spot on. Saying that outsiders say we have a good old fashioned chairman and should be grateful makes us feel patronised and want to bang our heads against the wall, spot on. Saying that we have to realise Moyes has to work under the crap from our board, spot on.

Even though he's a red, nearly every time he writes about Everton he is spot on. I remember him constantly writing about the negatives of the Kirkby move when no other journalist would.

Have a pop at him if you like, but he's the only journalist who actually tries to call our board to account. Actually talks about the fears Evertonians have about our board.

So, in my opinion, people coming on here having a go at him over this article should give him some credit, especially when his colleague at The Mirror is constantly sucking Blue Bill's arse.
Peter Gibbons
14   Posted 05/03/2011 at 18:42:40

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Neil Lennon and Mark Hughes, is this a joke. And stop with the Brian Reade is a kopite and therefore knows fuck all crap. It's a good article in the national media that tells the truth of the state of the club. Maybe finally the media is turning again Kenshite and his non-existent board.
Aiden Jones
15   Posted 05/03/2011 at 18:48:53

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Neil Lennon?? ? why would want a manager with virtually no management experience, and the little he has is in the Scots Prem?
Ian Kearney
16   Posted 05/03/2011 at 18:49:38

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Neil Lennon's a nasty piece of work, and I can't stand Hughes either.
Peter Dry
17   Posted 05/03/2011 at 18:39:01

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Peter Fearon (#7) well said.

The fact that EVERY kopite I speak to tells me what a great job Moyes is doing and how lucky we are to have him only strengthens my dislike for him. Did they allow us to tell them that Hodgson was doing great things under difficult circumstances and that they were lucky to have him? No, and I'm not taking it off them. They're just patronising us.
Michael Upton
18   Posted 05/03/2011 at 18:51:55

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Not to mention Lennon can't keep his temper or keep his trap shut. Moyes is many things but he's not a moaner, a bully or referees or a touch-line ban waiting to happen. Whatever the answer is, it's not Neil Lennon.
Brian Hill
19   Posted 05/03/2011 at 19:03:28

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Tony Hale, do you genuinely believe that Brian Reade wants the best for Everton Football Club?
Declan Brown
20   Posted 05/03/2011 at 19:17:02

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Lads, read the bigger picture.

Lennon is considering his future in the summer after receiving death threats, he's not being suggested as our next manager, I think there was a link to this with Moyes leaving in the summer, to what job people ask? The newly vacant manager's job at Celtic.

We can all see that Moyes has had enough, and some of us enough of him, the Lennon situation gets him out of Goodison in the summer and still in a job with a club he holds very dear to his heart.

Neil Lennon, our next manager? Not a chance in hell, that would be a suicidal move and would nail us to the Championship in no time.

Despite the remarks above, the Lescott affair, I think Hughes would be a good move for him and us; he was an ex-player (albeit a short stay) and the man is a winner. History of succeeding, tough, abrasive etc but I like us to have a bit of steel and know how to attack, that's why I hold Joe Royle in such high regard. Hughes can accomplish this, making us tough to beat but winning games and bringing a attacking winning mentality to the club.

How many of the fans of the clubs he's been at actually dislike him?
Andy Crooks
21   Posted 05/03/2011 at 19:49:25

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Sorry, but I seem to have given the impression that I would like Neil Lennon as our manager. Most certainly not, I didn't rate him as a player and don't as a manager either.

What I did mean was, if he were to leave Celtic, and who could blame him, then it seems to me that David Moyes would be an obvious replacement. Rather than pay DM compensation, we would actually be compensated... giving us the money to pay compensation for a replacement and a fresh start.

Kevin Hudson
22   Posted 05/03/2011 at 20:19:47

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It used to be a handshake that told you everything you need to know about a man; now it's the newspaper he reads, and the particular scribe's he's fond of...

Brian Reade..? Puh-lease!
Ian Kearney
23   Posted 05/03/2011 at 20:32:54

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To be fair Kev, anything that's outside of Murdick's grubby empire is fair enough by me (apart from the Mail, obviously).
Eugene Ruane
24   Posted 05/03/2011 at 20:42:31

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Jesus - "He's a red, he hates us!"

What level of debate is this?

"Mr Smiggins, Dr Carragher needs to operate on your wife straight away"

"Carragher!? He can fuck off, he's got the same name as that red c...."

Seriously, read some of this back.

And Ian Kearney, I don't want Lennon either (not for a second), but I can think of better reasons than 'he's a nasty piece of work' or (re Hughes) 'I can't stand him either'.

It's not far off "Wenger!? Fuck off, he wears glasses!"

Seriously - a 'nasty piece of work'?

Is that supposed to make people think "Oh well, if he's a nasty piece of work, fuck him"

Tell you who WAS/IS a nasty piece of work, Fergie and I'd have LOVED him to have spent his career with us (even with no money)

By all accounts Catterick was a right shithouse..but he was also a winner.

Johnny Giles reckons Busby was a twat, 'Shanks' definitely was, as is 'The special one'.

See a pattern?

Sorry but I read some of these and it was like reading stuff from 10 year olds (nb: 10 year olds who need a fucking big dollop of Ritalin!)

Lennon has done nothing as a manager to make me think I'd want him at Everton, but I don't give a fuck what he (or anyone else) is like).

I'd have Vlad The Impaler as manager if he could get us a trophy.
Ian Kearney
25   Posted 05/03/2011 at 20:48:31

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Well I do care what he is like, because moral decency means something to me, and a man who refuses to condem fans sending death threats to referees, when he retired from international football suffering the same thing, isn't fit to be our manager.

Neither have I any desire to listen to Hughes moan, whinge and blame everyone else every week... a winner? Are you fucking kidding, another also-ran on mid-table merry-go-round.

You'd have Vlad the Impaler as manager, does that mean you'd have Stalin as chairman... hell, as long as the money comes in right Eugene, ask loyal blue Gaddafi, you can get pally with the City fans who didn't care that the Thai was a human rights abuser, as long as he spends money at their club. How about the kopites who cared not that Tom Hicks had robbed innocent workers in the northeast of hard earned redundancy money?

Personally, I see things a bit differently.
Declan Brown
26   Posted 05/03/2011 at 22:25:44

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Ian Kearney ? maybe I should put the winner thing a bit more clearer...

How many league title, FA Cup, League Cup, European Trophy winners' medals does he have?

The man has played at Barcelona, Man Utd, Bayern Munich, Chelsea amongst others. Must have been a terrible player who didn't know how to win or be in a winning team.

Think that over.
Eugene Ruane
27   Posted 05/03/2011 at 23:00:22

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Oh dear me!

Ian, what an example you are to us all, caring about all those poor people and... stuff.

You say..

"Well I do care what he is like, because moral decency means something to me".

Guess what, I don't believe you.

Don't get me wrong, It's a VERY noble sentiment and I'm sure YOU believe it, but if you judge people by what they DO rather than what they SAY (nb: as I do) then it's nonsense, because what you DO is support a team that gets it's money from Rupert fucking Murdoch.

In a League sponsored by Barclays.

A league by the way that comes under Uefa which comes under FIFA ? an almost uniquely corrupt organisation.

Oh and the cherry on the cake, a team with a PROVEN liar at the helm.

You don't imo believe in moral decency, you believe in SELECTIVE moral decency.

If you were REALLY the decency-obsessed individual you claim to be, you would have fuck all to do with any of it

But as I say, I don't believe you.

I believe instead you'll come up with piss weak justifications for why these examples are 'different' and why THEY pass your decency test.

This will be very handy as it will allow you to continue telling us all what a paragon of virtue you are.

Ever thought about a career in politics?

Oh and by the way, regarding Vlad The Impaler ? have you ever heard of poetic license or do you take everything literally? (you must be very confused listening to a Stuart Hall match summing up)
Ian Kearney
28   Posted 06/03/2011 at 00:03:54

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What Hughes has won as a player is of little consequence to his abilities as a manager, look at our own legends, Ratcliffe, Southall and to a lesser extent Peter Reid. I dont see anything mercurial about him as a manager, he can huff and puff about handshakes all he wants, hes got mid table mediocrity written all over him.

I realise you were using some poetic license Eugene, but i think the point you were making was about a 'win at any cost' mentality, I'm sorry but I dont agree with that, which is why I also used real figures in the game.

I dont like Neil Lennon, he comes across as scum, and I wouldnt cahnge my opinion of him or anyone else I didnt like just because they were at Everton, im a fan, not a sycophant. It was similar reasons I didnt wnat Robbie Savage to sign, I wouldnt want El hadge Diouf to sign.

Would you accept scum like Marlon King at our club if he had the ability of Dixie Dean?
Ste Traverse
29   Posted 06/03/2011 at 00:25:28

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I couldn't give a flying fuck whether Reade is a Liverpool fan or not as the article is spot on regarding Kenwright and his useless cronies in the boardroom.

It's nice to see someone in the media break ranks and speak the truth for once regarding this clown Kenwright instead of the usual "good old Bill,he's a true blue,loves Everton" etc etc.
Andy Crooks
30   Posted 06/03/2011 at 00:27:56

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Ian, I admire and respect your sentiments but sometimes, I don't want to sound like a bleeding heart here, I'm far from it, we need to take a second look. What were your views for instance on Duncan Ferguson? I loved to watch him and if he hadn't been an Everton player I'd have hated him. I can't stand Bellamy but I'd like him to be at Everton.

Sometimes we get an impression of people without knowing them. Here in Northern Ireland Neil Lennon divides opinion in ways you couldn't begin to imagine. I think he is in the unfortunate position, like Bellamy, of looking utterly unlikeable. I imagine living in Glasgow must be a nightmare for him and I suspect he will leave.

Sometimes people can actually change. How about bringing Joey Barton home?

Sermon over

Ian Kearney
31   Posted 06/03/2011 at 00:44:16

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I was honestly shocked when I saw the Lennon interview were he was asked about the death threats to the ref, how could he of all people be so flippant on such a subject?

Bellemy, if ever a man was born to be hated, he's got everything you need to dislike someone, I don't really know enough about the claims against him assaulting one maybe two birds on a night out, but on the pitch I've never really seen him do anything truly vicious.

Big Dunc, well even Ruddock said he was actually a dirty player, wasn't a bully, I guess loving Big Dunc was a guilt pleasure, but again I wouldn't put him in the Kevin Nolan category. He was a bit of a thug, but not a snide one.

You're absolutely right about getting an impression of someone without knowing them, a trap we easily fall into in this celebrity obsessed culture. Lennon might be perfectly affable for all I really know, but from what I have seen from him, he doesn't come across well.

I've done my fair share of bad tackles, claimed goal kicks when I clearly put the ball out for a corner, I'm not saying we all have to be saints, but win at any cost? Surely the line has to be drawn somewhere. I don't mind bad losers, but bad winners leave a sour taste in the mouth. Look at the Carling Cup final, when Kosclwhatshisface made the gaffe that cost the game. Barry Ferguson ran past him and clipped him round the head, why would you ever need to do that? Can't he just celebrate his team's goal without rubbing it in the face of someone who probably feels lower than they ever felt?

As for Joey Barton, he's a strange case, every interview he gives he comes across as a straight-taking smart lad, not a scally at all. But he clearly has a problem with the red mist, but seems to be making a concerted effort to change, perhaps three violent incidents too late though! Having said that, I can't stand these media bandwagons where people are tried by journalists.
Ian Kearney
32   Posted 06/03/2011 at 01:01:39

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Typo: Ruddock said Big Dunc WASN'T a dirty player.
Thomas Williams
33   Posted 06/03/2011 at 01:16:11

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I thought it was a reasonable argument tbh.

Enough of this Blue Bill shite... get someone in with a vision for the club, and a board with innovative ideas, not sell all your assets and sit back and watch the club slowly die. Moyes and the players will be re-invigorated and we can move on upwards.

With no money again for next season, no wonder Moyes looks pissed off and the players, all that hard work over the first 7 years, down the pan, due to the incompetency of our board.

Matt Traynor
34   Posted 06/03/2011 at 04:30:18

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Seems to me like Mr Reade is a lurker amongst these forums!
Eugene Ruane
35   Posted 06/03/2011 at 07:01:54

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Christ Ian, for someone who sets such store by decency, you appear (incredibly) quick to judge based on fuck all.

You say "I dont like Neil Lennon, he comes across as scum".

'He comes across as'?

Well that's that then, he can fuck RIGHT off the scum-bag BASTARD!.

Oh wait...he might NOT be one, that's just how he 'comes across' to you

Then there's..

"I guess loving big dunc was a guilt pleasure, but again I wouldnt put him in the Kevin Nolan catagory. He was a bit of a thug, but not a snide one".

What a coincidence, Dunc (BIT of a thug, not an ACTUAL thug) played for us, while Nolan (the snide - BOOOO!) didn't.

As I said, SELECTIVE decency.

I believe, had it been the other way round, you'd now be saying "At least Nolan never did jail time, he may be a BIT of a thug but he's not a convicted.." blah.

Sorry but it's childish inconsistent bollocks.
Norman Merrill
36   Posted 06/03/2011 at 08:07:42

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Knowing who the writer is, and his devotion to all things red, just a way of having a snipe at Everton.
Eugene Ruane
37   Posted 06/03/2011 at 09:42:26

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Stephen Kenny
38   Posted 06/03/2011 at 10:09:11

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For fuck sake!!!

I haven't even read the article yet but I know it will be fair and balanced regarding us. He has consistently praised Everton where it has been due and wrote a piece after the cup final which said a lot about the man's journalistic integrity.

To dismiss this because he supports the shite is fucking pathetic in the extreme.

He is putting out a message a significant amount of Evertonians want to be heard. To achieve the end goal some of us want, ie, Kenwright Out, then the air of publicity can only help clue in ordinary matchgoers.
Peter Hall
39   Posted 06/03/2011 at 10:15:01

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I couldn't give a toss what's in the gutter press but I do know this. Comparing the years before Moyes and the years since Moyes it's obvious that he is a big asset to the club. And I mean obvious.

If all the guys who tell us how much better off we'd be without him were in charge of appointing managers then we would be (at best) in and out of the Premier League, given our resources.

Sure, Moyes is not perfect. Sure there are things I find hard to take about him. But comparing him with the names you mention above makes me so thankful it's Kenwright and not you who are choosing the manager.

But then you'd just be saying the same things about Allardyce or Lennon or Hughes (second rate names to Moyes on any neutral person's list) and whoever gets the anti-Kenwright rage. Some people are like that ? they know so much more than Moyes about football and are so much more trustworthy than Kenwright that of course they believe they know best.
Stephen Kenny
40   Posted 06/03/2011 at 10:48:08

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Comparing resources, Peter, I'd say at worst we should finish 6th-8th every season,Hopping between divisions is for clubs like West Brom, Birmingham etc.

Moyes has taken us a bit higher than that and has been allowed a long stable period to build, something most of the above managers haven't had.

IMO a decent manager like Curbishley would have kept us in this division in mid-table mediocrity without us ever having any real bother with relegation. Another good manager (of which there are many willing to work for £3M pa) would have probably achieved similar over the same period of time, perhaps witha better or at least more entertaining style of football?

Everton Football Club have been in the top division of football for a long time and will continue to be long after David Moyes has gone.
Jamie Rowland
41   Posted 06/03/2011 at 11:17:07

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It's a load of bollocks! What is the truth because he's no closer to it than we are.

Kopite should worry about his own club ... And as I said to David Prentice, who said nearly the same thing word for word 'he hits the nail on the head' ? bollocks! Causing trouble for the sake of it.
Eugene Ruane
42   Posted 06/03/2011 at 11:21:30

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Yeah Jamie that's what he's doing, 'causing trouble'.

And why?

(roll on the drums!) 'For the sake of it'.

What an insight!

(or maybe because he's a matter)

Yes I imagine he woke up Friday and thought..

"Right, today I'm going to write some shit-stirring stuff for Evertonians! I'll make out I'm being thought-provoking, maybe mention a few things no other paper has. However this will be done under my journo disguise. The disguise that hides the REAL me - Dr Kop! MwaaAHAHAHAHA"

Seriously, I've heard more sense from kids.

'Causing trouble'?

WHAT fucking 'trouble'?

You mean you getting worked up about YOUR interpretation of why someone wrote a piece about Everton?

God help us.

Andy Crooks
43   Posted 06/03/2011 at 13:10:11

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I've just read Brian Reade's article. To me it seems insightful and a refreshing change from the usual media sycophancy towards Moyes and Kenwright.
David Hallwood
44   Posted 06/03/2011 at 13:50:59

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Speaking of twats, how about Cahill, an obnoxious player on the field that other supporters hate/admire and by all acounts, an aggressive little bastard off it. Do I care? Oh grow up!
Brian Lawlor
45   Posted 06/03/2011 at 14:04:28

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JAMES HOLLISTER:- "I don't think in all honest funding is the real issue, I think it's more to do with the limited "skills" he has a manager.

If we lost him, and I sincerely hope we do and soon, we might end up with a better, positive manager who might genuinely try to achieve something."

If that's the case, show me how many clubs and managers in the last 9 years who have spent less than Everton net in any one season and either a) got in to Europe or b) won something? If there is an example how does that manager's team compare to us over the same 9-year period?

Were you one those fans on here suggesting Ian Holloway would be a better manager, play better football etc? Well look where that's going to take them, straight back down... and they won't be back in our lifetime. If it's not about money you say, then they should be challenging for Europe or should be winning a cup.

Why is it that every respected journalist, pundit and fellow professional looking in, says Moyes has done an unbelievable job?

Over-inflated wages? For the first 5 years in charge, he was one of the lowest paid managers, were you and everyone else going on about his wages then?

If you hate Moyes so much, give up your season ticket. Oh no, you haven't got one, have you.
Jalil Noor
46   Posted 06/03/2011 at 13:58:21

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How about Reade is being a journalist 1st and a Kopite 2nd?

Being a kopite does not pay him his wages and even though there are biased reports/journos out there, not all of them wear (insert colour here) tinted glasses.

I actually find the article a good read and actually says out loud what most of us have been thinking.

Matthew Williams
47   Posted 06/03/2011 at 14:41:44

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After the FA Cup defeat, my initial feelings were that it's time for Moyes to go but, after a few days to think about it, I really don't think that is the answer. The main reason is, if your going to get rid of him you have to replace him with someone better... I can't think of anyone better who would want to come.

Big Sam A would probably be top of Kenwright's list but, if he did replace Moyes, you bet 6 months down the line we would all be wishing for the return of Moyes. My choice would be Martin O`Neill but I don't think he would want to come to a club who have less funds then Villa, he did leave after all because of lack of ambition. What we need is funds, I still believe Moyes is the answer.

Eugene Ruane
48   Posted 06/03/2011 at 15:32:37

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Why is the cherry on the idiot cake so often applied by a better blue?

"If you hate Moyes so much, give up your season ticket. oh no, you haven't got one have you".

Brian Lawlor of course!

The better blue's better blue.

Brian you should get together with Ian, have an evening of Everton-themed sanctimonious thickery.

More Brian - "Why is it that every respected journalist, pundit and fellow professional looking in, says Moyes has done an unbelievable job".

Actually, I think I CAN answer that Brian.

Because they're fucking NOT respected (that was easy!)

Seriously, what ARE you on?

Where do you get you lack of information?

Is there some kind of posters equivelant of rohypnol?

(woozy) "Umph,,,someone spiked my tea officer, next thing I was on TW spouting shite!".

RESPECTED journalists you say.

Fine - name three.

GO ON! (then tell us who respects them).

Or maybe you'd like to start with something juggling with soot.
James Hollister
49   Posted 06/03/2011 at 16:45:08

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Peter Hall ? Tell me where the reasoning is for your comment, we'd be in and out of the Premier League if it were not for moyse?

Not being rude, but before Moyes we did a fair bit of chopping and changing, sure we ALMOST got relegated a couple of times, but the fact is we didn't go down.

This year, we'll be lucky not to go down, and extremely lucky to qualify for a Europa spot, but this isn't down to Moyes, it's down to the competitive nature of the Premier League this year. If it had not been competitive, we'd be pretty much sitting lower than we actually are today.

I'd like us to get a manager that nails people like Kenwright in the papers weekly for his gross board mismanagement and the constant bullshit he spouts... but hey everyone has a price.
James Hollister
50   Posted 06/03/2011 at 17:12:33

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Brian Lawlor ? The Premier League is competitive below the bottom 4 spots, been pretty much like that for the past 8 or 9 years, possibly longer. Take a look at the league today and the points distribution, the league is more competitive than it's been in a long while... oops apart from last year and the year before and before that.

Brian, I'd pick anyone who can play joined-up football, isn't a dour negative twat, who has no idea how to name a team. If Ian Holloway floats your boat, fair enough... but I think right at this time we have more chance of going down than they do... at least he sets out to get results, unlike Mr Moyes whose predictable, dour shite is on offer week after week.

We qualified for Europe, we beat small teams, then as soon as we came up to a team with a bit of nous, they absolutely hammered us ? not once or twice but 3 times putting 5 past us in the Uefa / Europa.

You can blame the board all you like, but it isn't them picking a team he has no idea about... ahem Anichebe, Osman, Hibbert. Maybe even Bily and Heitinga... give me a fucking break, lad.
Jim Hourigan
51   Posted 06/03/2011 at 19:24:11

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Moyes was a no-mark before he came to us, one (possibly two) losing playoff finals with a Championship side ? is that prophetic or what!! Did anyone seriously rate him before he came? Where was his pedigree etc etc.

The argument that there is nobody better is rubbish, nobody knows how well a manager will do until he's given the chance. Would a so-called good manager like Wenger get the same out of this bunch? Probably not and he would end up moulding the team into what he wants. Exactly the same will happen with our next manager. He will lose the players he doesn't fancy, bring in some of his 'type' and then we go from there.

The issue is not who can replace Moyes but how much longer do people want to suffer the crap he dishes out in terms of tactics and selection? He has moulded a team around his personality: dour, defensive and stubborn to beat. If you want another 3 years of that then Moyes is your man. If, like me, you want to give someone a chance to get rid of the likes of Hibbert and Victor and bring in some pace, attacking flair and open football, it's time for him to go.

Yes, of course it's a possible risk, but as long as 6/7 players are kept ie Arteta, Baines, Fellaini, Distin, Howard, Rodwell, Beckford and possibly Cahill and Jags then the new manager works around this with additions to the squad.

At the end of the day Moyes will never win anything, he has created a solid base but cannot move to the next level. Time to say "Thanks for all your hard work, someone will now take it on to the next level."

David O'Keefe
52   Posted 06/03/2011 at 20:00:30

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OK Jim, I will say it, I was pleased when Moyes took over. Why? because he took a third division team to GP in 2000 that played Everton off the park for an hour. Preston should have won.

Moulded a team around his personality? Have you ever spoken to the man? Christ, the Moyes bashing is beyond parody. And that Arsene Wenger is a miserable bastard.
Simon Jenkins
53   Posted 06/03/2011 at 20:21:34

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Just for the record, even though Reade is a red, his son is ? in fact - a blue, and Reade has been known to take his son to games at Goodison.

Even though the article doesn't specifically state it, his words 'As the final whistle confirmed Reading's FA Cup victory at Goodison the Evertonians around me gave off resigned sighs' seem to indicate he was actually at the match, and if so, probably with his son.

I think he is ? generally ? a fair-minded red. He's usually right in pretty much everything he writes in his weekly football column in the Mirror. There are parts of the Mirror that are crap, and things written about Everton that we definitely wouldn't agree with, but Reade isn't necessarily representative of the paper as a whole.
Jamie Rowland
54   Posted 06/03/2011 at 20:35:55

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Eugene ? You mean you getting worked up about YOUR interpretation of why someone wrote a piece about Everton?

Yes, absolutely. As opposed to YOU liking the article because it falls neatly inline with what YOU want to believe.

Perhaps if fans didn't except such drivel, Evertonians could be united once again and move forward with the club.

Or we could just comment how good yet another 'put money in or else, Mr Kenwright' article is. +++
Nick Armitage
55   Posted 06/03/2011 at 23:21:06

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A major football journo aims both barrels at Kenwright & Co.

How can this be bad???
Dave Wilson
56   Posted 06/03/2011 at 23:30:55

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You may be right about the journalist, they are generally not respected, but how can you say that about other Premier League managers? Three times Moyes has been voted Manager of the Year by his peers and the most incredible thing about that is the fact that other than Wenger and SAF, each club has changed its manager. Forty one different prem managers have voted Moyes as Manager of the year! One season it was actually unanimous... and they`re just the votes we know about, what about the votes he got when he didn't win?

If you don't respect the views of the guys actually doing the job, who`s views do you respect?

Must have been doing something right.

Michael Kenrick
57   Posted 06/03/2011 at 23:58:40

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Dave, I'm one who places much higher stock in the views of Evertonians than in the views of most journalists, the media, other managers, or fans of other teams.

Do you know why?

Because, no matter how much you try to belittle them, those Evertonians know far more about Everton ? and more importantly, what it MEANS to BE Everton ? than any of the other categories you keep fawning about.

We've had the explanation why Moyes got those votes, and quite honestly, it's a nice gesture... but it doesn't make him a good manager. Especially if it's basically a spoiling vote to keep Ferguson and Wenger in check. I mean, are really going to place much stock in an award Moyes has won three times if they have only won it twice each?

After you've thought about that one, perhaps you could explain why Moyes does not even get a mention in the LMA Hall of Fame???
David Thomas
58   Posted 07/03/2011 at 00:42:43

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"If Ian Holloway floats your boat fair enough, but I think right at this time we have more chance of going down than they do... at least he sets out to get results, unlike Mr Moyes whose predictable, dour shite is on offer week after week."


So the team we beat last month, who are currently 4 points behind us in the league, has a much worse goal difference and have lost 7 of their last 10 league games compared to our 3 defeats in our last 10 games, have more of a chance of staying up right at this time compared to us?

Dave Wilson
59   Posted 07/03/2011 at 08:14:31

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I too put more stock by what Evertonians think than Journalists.

The Manager of the Year is voted for by other managers, experts, people who know all the problems that come with managing a top club and if it were merely a nice jesture the award would be spread around far more evenly. It's an honest assessment of their fellow professionals by people who have been there and done it. I don't fawn all over it, just present it as fact.

I`m at a lost to see how asking a question such as mine is construed an attempt to belittle another fans opinion when it's ok for those who share your views to accuse others of "Everton themed sanctimonious thickery".
Eugene Ruane
60   Posted 07/03/2011 at 07:55:58

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Dave Wilson - if they'd voted him best manager TEN times, it wouldn't (for me) make him a great manager.

I have no doubt many of the votes were "he's done well...WITH NO MONEY" votes - basically sympathy votes and a little different from he's a great manager votes.

Also, I believe that it's possible to be helped by default votes (sometimes known as the 'I'm not voting for that cunt' vote).

Remember, Benitez hated Fergie, Fergie hated Wenger, the special one hated Wenger, Wenger hated everyone etc etc.

Winner, Moyes.

I'm NOT putting this forward as fact, just suggesting how/why someone who has won nothing can be voted a 'winner'.

You finish by asking..

"If you don't respect the views of the guys actually doing the job who's views do you respect?"

Well there's nothing to say I have to 'respect' the views of anyone (nb: I happen to think 99.9% of those involved in football and football journalism are as thick as shite and morally bankrupt)

However, if you press me on it, I think that Brian Reade's not bad.

Dave Wilson
61   Posted 07/03/2011 at 09:25:01

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I have deliberately seperated the managers from everybody else, I dont aks if you respect the view of journalists, just Managers ? "if you can't respect their view who`s can you respect".

I wouldn`t discount your "I`m not voting for that cunt" theory, but I think 41 ? that we know of ? votes speak volumes. I don't think it stretches credibility too far to believe that when asked who they think is the Manager of the Year, most if not all would have voted for the guy they actually believe was Manager of the Year.

You are perfectly entitled to your view on Moyes and you are right, getting Manager of the Year awards hardly constitutes proof positive that he is a great manager, but it does tell us that the people who have first hand experience ? the experts ? think he`s doing a good job.
Stephen Kenny
62   Posted 07/03/2011 at 10:03:22

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Brian - I've got one and I'm giving it up for two reasons;

1) Bill is killing our club and I see the only way to get rid is financial pressures. I can play a small part in that.

2) A talented squad playing like a Sunday League side under a manager who has, if your brutally honest, only ever had 'keep it tight and nick one' in his locker in purely on-the-pitch terms.

This squad has seriously underperformed in the last two years and so has Moyes, he's lost his way in the transfer market and his stubborness regarding certain situations has fucked us at the start of the last three seasons.

He can have as many LMA awards as he wants but the fact is he hasn't won us a trophy, IMO a really good manager would have.
Ryan Holroyd
63   Posted 07/03/2011 at 10:31:15

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Although a red, Brian Reade's article is pretty much spot-on.

Does it matter he's a red? He said moving to Kirkby would be surrendering the white flag to Liverpool.

Funny he could see this what with being a red when some of our own fans wanted us to move to a shit Lego-set ground in Kirkby.

It's just a shame it has taken this long for the media to see that Kenwright is killing the club.

The worst thing to happen to Everton in it's history is Kenwright.
Brian Lawlor
64   Posted 07/03/2011 at 11:08:30

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Eugene ? you question whether I'm on drugs? I'd read your own posts back mate. You sound like a sad old man ranting and raving with complete blinkers on.

You don't respect any journalists although you say Brian Reade's 'not bad' (Brian Reade (Mirror); Patrick Barclay (Times); Andy Hunter (Guardian) ? in answer to your question), and you're discrediting Moyes's LMA awards. There are 92 league managers who vote for it and 3 times Moyes has got the majority of votes so your suggestion about the top 4 managers hating each other is pathetic. It's incredible the Moyes haters totally discredit these awards.

Now I'm having a guess here but I reckon that you're a cyber fan who doesn't even live in this country and doesn't even spend any money following Everton.. Am I right?
Roger Trenwith
65   Posted 07/03/2011 at 15:03:14

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Brian Reade seems like a, dare I say it, sensible Kopite and his article is spot on. Much as Moyes can frustrate the shit out of me at times, if he left we would be well and truly shafted. What other manger would come to a club not just with no money, but a club that will need to sell players simply to service debt? Ian Sampson has recently been sacked by Northampton Town, maybe we could tempt him?

On another note, I consider Eugene's rantings to be perfectly balanced ? he has a chip on each shoulder... I'll get me coat.
Andy Crooks
66   Posted 07/03/2011 at 15:29:30

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Provocative stuff, Brian.
Eugene Ruane
67   Posted 07/03/2011 at 14:43:06

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Dave, you say..

"..getting Manager of the Year awards hardly constitutes proof positive that he is a great manager, but it does tell us that the people who have first hand experience ? the experts ? think he's doing a good job".

Well I sort of agree, but only in so far as I think WE (Evertonians) are the experts.

The thing is football for the most part is very simple - results and performance dictating whether someone is doing a good job or not (so personally, I find I don't need Tony Pulis to tell me how Moyes is doing).

And don't forget, all the (other) non-winners actually have a vested interest in this award going to a non-winner.

IE: "Before you sack me, remember the manager of the year won fuck-all, but kept his side in the money-spinning Premier League!"

I'm not saying these are THE reasons he got the award (or the ONLY reasons), I'm just saying that posting that 'He won the manager of the year 3 times' imo needs looking at a lot closer than many seem to want to.

One award I'm not in ANY doubt over is who should receive the better blue of the year award.

Brian Lawlor with his desperate..

"Now I'm having a guess here but I reckon that you're a cyber fan who doesn't even live in this country and doesn't even spend any money following Everton.. Am I right?".

Most better blues just accuse those who expose their 'arguments' as drivel, of not going to the game.

This feller lets his frustration run away with him and adds "..who doesn't even live in this country".

Brian, take a bow son!
Andy Crooks
68   Posted 07/03/2011 at 17:46:09

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Eugene, how far back can you trace your ancestors as Evertonians? It seems to me that somewhere in your family tree there is a kopite. Do you walk to a game? Just how far is your house from Goodison Park? Call yourself an Evertonian?
Dave Wilson
69   Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:58:38

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Agreed, many Evertonians are experts, trouble is half of them think Moyes is doing a sterling job, or at least think he`s our best current option, and the other half think he`s a negative twat who wants running out of town. Either the truth lies somewhere between... or half of these experts are wrong.
Michael Kenrick
70   Posted 07/03/2011 at 20:27:42

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... and the other half are right! 'T'was ever thus, as one old contributor used to say. And as Evertonians, we're free to choose based on the merits (as if we already weren't preconditioned to be on one side or the other!) But at least nobody is browbeating us by throwing around this "experts" nonsense. Dave, next you'll be telling us how cling to every word uttered by the TV pundits...

Eugene and Andy may have something here, talking of Evertonian Experts: Outing the Better Blue may be the effective way to expose their sactimoniosity, if that's a word.

But I fear it leads to factions based on geography and match-attendance. Given that only a small portion of the active Everton fanbase (total estimated at let's say around 1 million WORLDWIDE) could get into Goodison if they wanted and were able, and a decimal of that for away games... it all gets a bit silly very quickly.

And I think it contravenes our Articles of Association or something... We're very PC here... no discrimination whatsoever.

Except kopites.
Eugene Ruane
71   Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:46:23

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Andy when did I say I was an Evertonian?


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