I was going to write a submission about the how the Evertonian who had his season ticket taken off him was not being racist. But then to explain this and have in return, I would presume, mass agreement would be a waste of all our energies when we could be doing something far more productive like watching The One Show or going for a beer.
Some do-gooder has had this man ejected from the ground and had his season ticket taken off him which makes officials at the club guilty of something which is becoming more prevelent in today's society which is going with the flow of a complaint. It's easier, they can wash their hands of it and hide behind morality if any questions are asked.
So, if King Louis looks like he hasn't eaten his Ready-Brek next match, don't slur him by calling him a 'useless French lazy bastard', but perhaps something more acceptable on the terraces like a 'fucking lazy twat'.
Tell your kids too, give them some education.
Nick Entwistle, Posted 07/03/2011 at 17:24:06
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1 Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:23:59
"French"? ? yes;
"Lazy"? ? not particularly;
"Bastard"? ? don't suppose so.
So Mr Sibson is in trouble for the one word in his rant that is actually true.
2 Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:18:27
The world has indeed gone mad. I read the other day of a woman councillor somewhere who said at a Council meeting she had heard something 'on the jungle drums' (a phrase that has been around for years) and Io and behold a person complained and she has been suspended!
And before anybody of the PC Brigade even dares to say I am a racist for believing that the above story is ridiculous, let me tell you that my baby son who was born on Feb 5, the day of the Blackpool game, has the middle name Louis in honour of Monsieur Saha's goalscoring feat that day. (See the person, not the colour I say.) I guess Mr Sibson may not have agreed with my actions, but that's his right.
3 Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:13:57
Always strikes me as odd that it is perfectly acceptable to discriminate based on region but not country of birth. I wonder if a Man Utd fan calling Rooney a lazy scouse bastard would suffer a similar fate? Or indeed an Everton fan calling Phil Neville a Manc something-or-other. Every match in the country would be behind closed doors!
4 Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:25:39
Despite the fact that more and more women and children attend matches, my own personal opinion is that a football match is no place for people who are offended by foul and abusive language whatever their gender or age maybe. Personally I would watch my tongue if I was sat next to a small child but, if I took my son or girlfriend to a match, I would be prepared for them to hear some abusive language! In my experience, it has always been part and parcel (and one of the funniest things about) of going to the match!
I remember being sat in the Bullens Rd back in '94 against Oldham when Preki stepped up to take a free kick. Just before he struck the ball, some big, fat skinhead bloke shouted out "If this useless, foreign cunt does a Le Tissier with this, I will buy everyone in the ground a drink!" Two seconds later the ball was in the top corner from 25 yards out. My Dad and I still laugh about it all these years later. No, we never got our drink!!
5 Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:43:43
6 Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:48:39
I remember somebody shouting out to Mario Melchiot and calling him FloJo. It may be childish at times, but on the other hand do these players who are paid tens of thousands of pounds a week really mind? Somehow I doubr it......
7 Posted 07/03/2011 at 19:30:49
8 Posted 07/03/2011 at 19:34:13
Or did the speaker, amongst his other derogatory terms, decide to kindly throw in the word "French" to educate anyone who wasn't sure where Louis was from?
I think not.
The man should be charged.
9 Posted 07/03/2011 at 20:14:12
10 Posted 07/03/2011 at 19:58:19
I can't believe the amount of people that don't know what's going on today and are being brainwashed by shite like X-factor and Dancing on Thin Ice.
FFS people better wake up and PDQ because the guy who lost his season ticket is only the start of our problems.
Sorry guys this stuff to me is like a red (uurrrgh) rag to a bull.
70s and 80s we were all pretty content and then the Berlin wall came down, whoah! Communism has been defeated. No, it just spread it's wings and now it's infecting football.
And for all those who say conspiricy theorist, when do you think Fifa will be up before the beak for corruption.
COYB (well, it's better than Come On You Reds), politically speaking.
11 Posted 07/03/2011 at 20:55:06
12 Posted 07/03/2011 at 20:59:51
13 Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:14:03
14 Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:30:30
15 Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:27:35
? Crouch ? is lanky twat ok?
? John Terry ? comments about affairs?
? Carragher's driving?
? What about USA USA USA to Tim Howard? Where do YOU draw the line?
? Thank god you didn't mention David Johnson in the 70s.
I'm getting worried that my shouts against that half-wit Kenwright might get me thrown out but, since I am not renewing after 39 years of season tickets, really I couldn't care less. In fact, if it got me an interview in the papers to explain my comments, and factually state why he mismanaged us over the last decade... pass the loudhailer!
16 Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:38:08
17 Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:51:07
18 Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:35:10
There may be other historically disadvantaged groups out there who our world for some reason does not consider historically disadvantaged (like, oh, the working classes). But "the French" as a whole, like "the English," obviously do not belong in this category. In fact, most of "the French" would probably be pretty outraged if you tried to characterize them this way.
Unfortunately, this season ticket business gives knee-jerk enemies of all political correctness just the kind of ammo they need.
19 Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:23:28
And it's a fair point you make; suppose stewards would have to empty Dean Court (Bournemouth) every week in response to the "you dirty northern bastards" chants...
But still, I think it's right to make an example of this chap.
20 Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:31:54
You can stick your fecken PC up yer arse... By the way, the use of the word 'fecking' is because I don't like typing the correct word out and has nothing to do with the Irish.... ahhhh fuck!
21 Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:41:04
The problem is cases like this that give political correctness a bad name. We've (the English) got a long and complicated history with the French, that has seen us as enemies, allies and most other things in between. To use 'French' as an insult is completely harmless and in no way akin to using 'black' or any other racial epithet.
Most of the other home nations use 'English' in a very similar way as a matter of course, and I'm not offended by it in the slightest; it's part of a banterous rivalry that defines in part who we are as the separate nations within the UK. Race and nationality are absolutely not the same thing, especially in modern Europe.
Whoever complained, then whoever backed up the complaint, are not only guilty of ridiculous behaviour in this case, but also of undermining genuine and important efforts to reduce real problems, like racism and sexism, which still exist and need dealing with. Incidents like this mean people will take important incidents less seriously because 'the PC brigade' cock about doing stupid things like this.
It also emboldens the people who do hold racist or sexist views, as normally they keep quiet, but if they sense a strong shift against political correctness (or 'being nice', as it could be known) they may feel more able to spout the shit that PC has done so much to get rid of.
22 Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:39:40
I can happily point out that France has every colour of the rainbow as residents due to it's colonial past but all are French. If the comments had been directed at Saha's colour or religion then, yes, it would be racism, pointing out the obvious and subjective and being labelled racist is utter bollocks.
23 Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:52:11
24 Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:53:42
Dennis Stevens (#12) ? If you are offended by this type of language, I take it you will point a steward at the next person you hear abusing a player at a match?
Load of old bollox.
25 Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:49:27
At Brentford away this season, I got into an argument with a useless excuse for a scrote when J Beckford missed his pen: "You stupid fucking nigger" shouted this arsehole behind me. I told him to shut it, he carried on. I threatened him but made the judgement that he was not worth a night in the cells if we got into a real fight, and that hopefully he would think again next time. Some hope, this young bloke was really thick.
I make the point because, when I have heard Everton racism, of which I am ashamed as our reputation is still there, I will have a go back. So I reckon I can comment.
This wasn't racism. Stupidity yes. See Peter at No 17.
And the reaction may damage attempts to root out real scummy racist shite: see Greg at 18.
Fight racism, educate stupidity.
26 Posted 07/03/2011 at 23:29:09
I darsn't mention any of these words but this Pommy Bastard is glad to say that our race is not included among those racially sensitive groups. It is deemed by that same department that 'Pom' is OK... and 'Pommy bastard' even more OK.
27 Posted 07/03/2011 at 23:48:48
Go on, I dare you Billy, I certainly won't be in the queue to renew while you remain at the club!
COYB / Kenwright OUT
28 Posted 07/03/2011 at 23:44:06
Merry Christmas to Seasons Greetings... Mentally challenged to sodding stupid..
It's the ability to offend without offending... the ability to water down an insult to banality (an insult in itself).
The attempt to remove diversity with blandness, a beige mentality. It is those who lead society to embrace banality for ease of control rather than debate the issue.
It's the use of offensive platitudes against the brutality of reality. The ability to sanitise the things in life that make anyone uncomfortable.
Politically Correct? No, just a means of fooling ourselves that the world is a better place if we give it another name. Just a bland immorality which is often even more offensive to the intelligence than the original deed or comment.
It's not a question of PC when someone refers to another in a derogatory manner. It's bad manners. Sanitising it as PC is just as offensive.
29 Posted 08/03/2011 at 00:02:40
However, to just throw insults seems pathetic and pointless ? much like some of the pitiful attempts made here to excuse such behaviour. It seems that most people here think racism is the same as colour prejudice, judging by some of the comments posted. Judging from this thread, it's not the fault of the poor old offender at all, let's blame those who have taken offence!
30 Posted 08/03/2011 at 00:35:55
Throw a few John Byng types out every now and again, it appears that the Club are doing their job regarding racist or abusive chanting, it also shuts the other people up when they read about what can happen to them.
The fact that this guy was, apparently, just expressing what several thousand match-goers have thought about some Everton players and was not being really racist or abusive, well they see it as a price worth paying.
But then, the French and Roman armies would execute every tenth man in any unit that failed in their duties, innocent or not, to encourage the others.
Makes you wonder how many of the Everton board would be left if the same actions were taken against them? (Just sack, not execute...)
31 Posted 08/03/2011 at 01:02:04
32 Posted 08/03/2011 at 00:48:36
Calling someone from France 'French' is not racist, and shouldn't even be seen as offensive. If he had been called a frog or something similar then offence could be taken.
33 Posted 08/03/2011 at 01:28:33
34 Posted 08/03/2011 at 02:11:07
35 Posted 08/03/2011 at 02:22:50
Don't see a problem with this at all.
England has now gone completely mad. I now live in Shanghai and look from the outside. If I called someone a "benefit cheating bastard that is robbing from the state" is "an English cheating bastard that is robbing from the state" any worse.
Grow a set, England.
36 Posted 08/03/2011 at 03:07:15
My experience with being live at sporting events over here is that someone tossed (and losing his season pass, which is extreme) usually has been keeping up a stream of invective that, finally, someone around him said, "Fuck this. Enough". That's my experience.
Did he really say these 4 words one single time and nothing else similar and lost his season ticket over it? Sorry, business is business and if screaming mean things at players got fans tossed routinely, stadiums across the globe would be empty.
Not going to happen over an isolated incident. I'd guess this fellow has gone at someone or other over and over and someone sitting near him said, "I didn't come here to listen to shit from this loudmouth". He made one comment, one time and lost his season tickets? Nah.
By the way, if you take Saha out of it (who I love despite his papier mache legs) this American doesn't see what's wrong with that combination of other words around the word French. What's the problem?
37 Posted 08/03/2011 at 08:05:00
Anyway, what's wrong with being offended?. Nothing happens. You teach your kids "sticks and stones".
Apart from that, the guy who was offended at the possibility of someone else being offended needs to grow a set or stop going to the fuckin match. I bet he didn't confront the guy himself and went directly to the steward... Gobshite.
38 Posted 08/03/2011 at 09:12:17
I wonder if he was horizontally challenged and adverse to working hard?
As above, I doubt it was an isolated incident and the fella just has had enough. If I had my way the two smelly tossers in front of me would have been booted out 6 seasons ago.
39 Posted 08/03/2011 at 09:23:12
You're allowed to call someone that's overweight a fat twat, but can't call someone who is French, a frog.
Do me a favour......
I'd make a point of annoying this person by throwing a pastie at him and snapping his seat before arrival ? that kind of thing ? so he'd take his political correctness and fuck right off.
Arsehole; I hoep you're happy.... No I don't; I hope you get crabs.
40 Posted 08/03/2011 at 11:27:11
41 Posted 08/03/2011 at 11:54:43
Can I use the word ITALIC or will that get me in trouble?
42 Posted 08/03/2011 at 14:04:26
But if you'd said 'Italian'... or worse... 'Itie'... (How do you spell that?)
43 Posted 08/03/2011 at 18:20:34
I mean true, French isn't a racial group so it's hard to call the slur 'racial'.
And calling someone who is French, 'French' (I'm guessing) can't be a crime.
"HEY YOU FRENCH...MAN"
I'm guessing this was about the context in which French was used or, come to think of it, maybe it WASN'T the word French that was the problem
"SAHA YOU French LAZY BASTARD!"
Maybe it was the other words.
I've seen fights over less. ("Lazy? What, coz he's not running up and down like knob-head!? Behave yerfuckinself..." etc.)
Also, in the spirit of fairness, consider this.
Let's say an Irish Evertonian constantly screams at our English players "HEY JAKIELKA (whoever) YOU USELESS ENGLISH CUNT!"
I have NO doubt that it wouldn't be long before he was pulled up by those around him with "HEY LAD, WHAT'S ALL THIS FUCKIN' ENGLISH NONSENSE? NO FUCKIN' NEED FOR THAT?"
No need indeed.
Personally I think "HEY SAHA YOU FUCKING LAZY-ARSE CUNT!" is absolutely fine (nb: fine when he's playing like a fucking laz...) but personally I would never, NEVER bring nationality into it.
I just see it as something very slightly sinister.
And for the record, I'll add that I am always suspicious of those who get really worked up about 'political correctness' (especially when it's 'gone mad').
44 Posted 08/03/2011 at 21:54:23
45 Posted 08/03/2011 at 22:18:55
Er, yeah. If you think you know better, you're wrong. People love to use (and mis-apply) the word 'racism' and 'racist' because of the power it has, and it's usually a base attempt to claim moral high ground in an argument. This doesn't mean the meaning has changed. 'Race' in that it exists at all, is absolutely to do with skin colour, as well as possibly a few other physical characteristics.
Calling someone French is not racist. French people are not all the same race.
46 Posted 08/03/2011 at 23:20:05
I don't think I know any people who love to use (and mis-apply) the words 'racism' and 'racist' & so I wouldn't claim to understand their motivation in so doing ? I bow to your greater expertise in this area. However, people love to accuse people of attempting to claim the moral high ground in an argument, and it's usually a base attempt to steal the moral high ground in an argument, imho.
As for the meaning of Race, it's got quite a number of them, the definitions & usages vary & change over time, & some argue that it's of no validity beyond the social perceptions of the term. So I don't think it's quite as unchanging as you would have it ? perhaps it's just your own perception of the term that's fixed.
I'm not really one for abusing our own players, but if I am critical of an individual I never feel his nationality, skin colour, or religion is really pertinent to whatever I may consider his shortcomings on the field of play, anymore than I would make reference to his hair colour, marital status etc. Eugene makes the point well.
47 Posted 09/03/2011 at 02:53:45
48 Posted 09/03/2011 at 15:58:54
49 Posted 09/03/2011 at 17:02:01
50 Posted 09/03/2011 at 17:51:53
51 Posted 10/03/2011 at 10:18:39
I reckon the thread has to reach triple figures before you're into that territory, Peter.
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