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Political Correctness Gone Mad

Comments (51)

I was going to write a submission about the how the Evertonian who had his season ticket taken off him was not being racist. But then to explain this and have in return, I would presume, mass agreement would be a waste of all our energies when we could be doing something far more productive like watching The One Show or going for a beer.

Some do-gooder has had this man ejected from the ground and had his season ticket taken off him which makes officials at the club guilty of something which is becoming more prevelent in today's society which is going with the flow of a complaint. It's easier, they can wash their hands of it and hide behind morality if any questions are asked.

So, if King Louis looks like he hasn't eaten his Ready-Brek next match, don't slur him by calling him a 'useless French lazy bastard', but perhaps something more acceptable on the terraces like a 'fucking lazy twat'.

Tell your kids too, give them some education.

Nick Entwistle, London     Posted 07/03/2011 at 17:24:06

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Simon Lloyd
1   Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:23:59

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King Loius "useless"? ? er No;
"French"? ? yes;
"Lazy"? ? not particularly;
"Bastard"? ? don't suppose so.

So Mr Sibson is in trouble for the one word in his rant that is actually true.
Karl Masters
2   Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:18:27

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I am surprised that this happened as all the adjectives used barring 'bastard' are either true or open to an individual's opinion. The fact he never mentioned Saha's colour makes this event even more ridiculous really.

The world has indeed gone mad. I read the other day of a woman councillor somewhere who said at a Council meeting she had heard something 'on the jungle drums' (a phrase that has been around for years) and Io and behold a person complained and she has been suspended!

And before anybody of the PC Brigade even dares to say I am a racist for believing that the above story is ridiculous, let me tell you that my baby son who was born on Feb 5, the day of the Blackpool game, has the middle name Louis in honour of Monsieur Saha's goalscoring feat that day. (See the person, not the colour I say.) I guess Mr Sibson may not have agreed with my actions, but that's his right.
Mark Stone
3   Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:13:57

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It does seem odd that you can be punished for calling a Frenchman 'French' ... But I guess the problem is the implication that he is lazy or a bastard because he is French.

Always strikes me as odd that it is perfectly acceptable to discriminate based on region but not country of birth. I wonder if a Man Utd fan calling Rooney a lazy scouse bastard would suffer a similar fate? Or indeed an Everton fan calling Phil Neville a Manc something-or-other. Every match in the country would be behind closed doors!

Lee Courtliff
4   Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:25:39

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I get the feeling that more and more people are becoming PC. I am not one of them. I think it's a disgrace that some Blue had his ticket taken away for calling Louis a "useless French lazy bastard". Just as long as that's all he said.... because that is EXACTLY what Louis has been for the vast majority of the season.

Despite the fact that more and more women and children attend matches, my own personal opinion is that a football match is no place for people who are offended by foul and abusive language whatever their gender or age maybe. Personally I would watch my tongue if I was sat next to a small child but, if I took my son or girlfriend to a match, I would be prepared for them to hear some abusive language! In my experience, it has always been part and parcel (and one of the funniest things about) of going to the match!

I remember being sat in the Bullens Rd back in '94 against Oldham when Preki stepped up to take a free kick. Just before he struck the ball, some big, fat skinhead bloke shouted out "If this useless, foreign cunt does a Le Tissier with this, I will buy everyone in the ground a drink!" Two seconds later the ball was in the top corner from 25 yards out. My Dad and I still laugh about it all these years later. No, we never got our drink!!

Alan McGuffog
5   Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:43:43

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Lee, sorry buddy but I have to report you for referring to someone as Blue. Hang your head sir.
Karl Masters
6   Posted 07/03/2011 at 18:48:39

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The shouts at the match are one of the highlights some days.

I remember somebody shouting out to Mario Melchiot and calling him FloJo. It may be childish at times, but on the other hand do these players who are paid tens of thousands of pounds a week really mind? Somehow I doubr it......
Dan Brierley
7   Posted 07/03/2011 at 19:30:49

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Wonder what Ron Atkinson makes of Saha?
Max Main
8   Posted 07/03/2011 at 19:34:13

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Why include the word "French" if it's not pejorative?

Or did the speaker, amongst his other derogatory terms, decide to kindly throw in the word "French" to educate anyone who wasn't sure where Louis was from?

I think not.

The man should be charged.
Mark Griffiths
9   Posted 07/03/2011 at 20:14:12

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I totally agree about the world going PC mad these days and, although I don't think he should have been punished this way, I suppose the problem in what he said was the connotation between lazy, bastard and French; in that it kind of insinuates that being French is synonymous with being lazy and being a bastard. You wouldn't call Hibbo a useless English twat would you?!!
Jon Cox
10   Posted 07/03/2011 at 19:58:19

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For all the researchers and thinkers on here, if you've ever wondered where, why and how political correctness came about, then go and google "Frankfurt School" ? it will tell you all you need to know. When you've done all that, then google a guy called Brian Gerrish in connection with a so called charity by the name of "Common Purpose".

I can't believe the amount of people that don't know what's going on today and are being brainwashed by shite like X-factor and Dancing on Thin Ice.

FFS people better wake up and PDQ because the guy who lost his season ticket is only the start of our problems.

Brainwashing works.

Sorry guys this stuff to me is like a red (uurrrgh) rag to a bull.

70s and 80s we were all pretty content and then the Berlin wall came down, whoah! Communism has been defeated. No, it just spread it's wings and now it's infecting football.

And for all those who say conspiricy theorist, when do you think Fifa will be up before the beak for corruption.

COYB (well, it's better than Come On You Reds), politically speaking.
Mark Stone
11   Posted 07/03/2011 at 20:55:06

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Max (8) and Mark (9), I agree with you to an extent... (and in fact wrote pretty much the same thing at 3) ? but why is 'French' worse than 'Scouse', 'Geordie' or 'Manc' etc? I've called Gary Neville a Manc (insert expletive) on many an occasion and never been pulled up on it! What if Cardiff or Swansea end up in the Premier League next season and are chanting / shouting things about us scousers (which is inevitable)? If we respond with something about similar but replacing 'Scouse' for 'Welsh', do we all get ejected and banned?
Dennis Stevens
12   Posted 07/03/2011 at 20:59:51

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When abusing Saha for his performance, or lack thereof, the use of the term "French" was clearly racist & as offensive as if the word used had instead been "black". The complaint and the action taken by the club is not 'political correctness gone mad', just an appropriate response to somebody who is abusing a player on the basis of his nationality, which is generally considered to be racism. I don't really understand how it can be seen any other way.
Peter Dry
13   Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:14:03

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Let's be clear on this, abusing a person because they are French, Welsh or Irish is NOT racist; it is nationalist. There is a huge difference between nationalism and racism and it's important not to confuse the two. People made the mistake years ago when Anne Robinson ridiculed the Welsh.
Guy Hastings
14   Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:30:30

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I remember a lad being chucked out at Villa Park for having a go a Tricky Trev for not putting in his usual 110%. He made the point to the police that, as an Evertonian, he was paying TT's wages and the least he could expect in return was a bit of effort. The copper admitted it was a fair point but that he ought to make a complaint to whatever consumer rights body was operating at the time ? not call him a 'lazy cunt'. Out he went but no further stricture.
John Waugh
15   Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:27:35

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Dennis (12) ? is this what it has come to?

? Crouch ? is lanky twat ok?
? John Terry ? comments about affairs?
? Carragher's driving?
? What about USA USA USA to Tim Howard? Where do YOU draw the line?
? Thank god you didn't mention David Johnson in the 70s.

I'm getting worried that my shouts against that half-wit Kenwright might get me thrown out but, since I am not renewing after 39 years of season tickets, really I couldn't care less. In fact, if it got me an interview in the papers to explain my comments, and factually state why he mismanaged us over the last decade... pass the loudhailer!

Dean Adams
16   Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:38:08

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There just won't be any point in going to the games in future. This is not racism by the fan, this is ethnic cleansing on a massive scale and just the start of even more bullshit.
Peter Bourke
17   Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:51:07

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Whilst I think it is a bit harsh that the fan has lost his season ticket, I always wonder what is going through some people's minds that they would yell any sort of abuse at their own players. He deserves to have his season ticket taken off him for being a stupid moron but I don't think the comment was particularly racist.
Greg Anderson
18   Posted 07/03/2011 at 21:35:10

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The point of "political correctness" is to restore the dignity of historically disadvantaged/dominated/exploited groups, such as "gays", "blacks," "Pakistanis," and "Irish." By discouraging the pejorative use of their names, it hopes to give these identities the positive associations that they were not free to enjoy in the past.

There may be other historically disadvantaged groups out there who our world for some reason does not consider historically disadvantaged (like, oh, the working classes). But "the French" as a whole, like "the English," obviously do not belong in this category. In fact, most of "the French" would probably be pretty outraged if you tried to characterize them this way.

Unfortunately, this season ticket business gives knee-jerk enemies of all political correctness just the kind of ammo they need.
Max Main
19   Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:23:28

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Mark (3/11) ? sorry, I didn't actually see your post first time round, and I said basically exactly what you said.

And it's a fair point you make; suppose stewards would have to empty Dean Court (Bournemouth) every week in response to the "you dirty northern bastards" chants...

But still, I think it's right to make an example of this chap.
Tony J Williams
20   Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:31:54

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Cheese eating surrender monk... shit I can't even finish that gag, as someone will say I am being racist with the last word even though I am just quoting from a comedian and it is about the French not blac.... Crap! I can't even say that word without being labelled a racist now.

You can stick your fecken PC up yer arse... By the way, the use of the word 'fecking' is because I don't like typing the correct word out and has nothing to do with the Irish.... ahhhh fuck!
Mike Allison
21   Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:41:04

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Got to agree with 41st best stand-up Stewart Lee that PC is a GOOD thing, it means people are no longer called things like 'Pakis' and 'Niggers' on a regular basis in public (as they did used to be, no matter how much you'd like to think it never happened).

The problem is cases like this that give political correctness a bad name. We've (the English) got a long and complicated history with the French, that has seen us as enemies, allies and most other things in between. To use 'French' as an insult is completely harmless and in no way akin to using 'black' or any other racial epithet.

Most of the other home nations use 'English' in a very similar way as a matter of course, and I'm not offended by it in the slightest; it's part of a banterous rivalry that defines in part who we are as the separate nations within the UK. Race and nationality are absolutely not the same thing, especially in modern Europe.

Whoever complained, then whoever backed up the complaint, are not only guilty of ridiculous behaviour in this case, but also of undermining genuine and important efforts to reduce real problems, like racism and sexism, which still exist and need dealing with. Incidents like this mean people will take important incidents less seriously because 'the PC brigade' cock about doing stupid things like this.

It also emboldens the people who do hold racist or sexist views, as normally they keep quiet, but if they sense a strong shift against political correctness (or 'being nice', as it could be known) they may feel more able to spout the shit that PC has done so much to get rid of.

Gavin Ramejkis
22   Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:39:40

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Utter bollocks and shows how far the PC shower go for a poor argument. Using "French" as a slur isn't racist ? it's xenophobic. Racism should be aligned to a slur against ethnicity or culture.

I can happily point out that France has every colour of the rainbow as residents due to it's colonial past but all are French. If the comments had been directed at Saha's colour or religion then, yes, it would be racism, pointing out the obvious and subjective and being labelled racist is utter bollocks.

Mike Allison
23   Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:52:11

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Dennis Stevens ? your ridiculous and ignorant comment sums up so much of what is wrong with people's attitude to race and racism today.
Kevin Tully
24   Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:53:42

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Will they throw out everyone who makes a remark like this at the game? No chance... there'd be no fecker left in the ground.

Dennis Stevens (#12) ? If you are offended by this type of language, I take it you will point a steward at the next person you hear abusing a player at a match?

Load of old bollox.
Chris Matheson
25   Posted 07/03/2011 at 22:49:27

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The only two times in my adult life I have had 'fights' (in one case just pushing and shoving) were when standing up to racists; one of them at Wembley when Palace beat us and the guy in front was racially abusing Ian Wright after he had scored a second or third against us in the ZDS Cup or whatever.

At Brentford away this season, I got into an argument with a useless excuse for a scrote when J Beckford missed his pen: "You stupid fucking nigger" shouted this arsehole behind me. I told him to shut it, he carried on. I threatened him but made the judgement that he was not worth a night in the cells if we got into a real fight, and that hopefully he would think again next time. Some hope, this young bloke was really thick.

I make the point because, when I have heard Everton racism, of which I am ashamed as our reputation is still there, I will have a go back. So I reckon I can comment.

This wasn't racism. Stupidity yes. See Peter at No 17.

And the reaction may damage attempts to root out real scummy racist shite: see Greg at 18.

Fight racism, educate stupidity.

Dick Fearon
26   Posted 07/03/2011 at 23:29:09

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If you want to see political correctness in full flow, come to Australia. There recently was published by a government dept an official list of ethnic slang words that their usage of in every day conversation could see the user dragged before racial discrimination courts.

I darsn't mention any of these words but this Pommy Bastard is glad to say that our race is not included among those racially sensitive groups. It is deemed by that same department that 'Pom' is OK... and 'Pommy bastard' even more OK.

Andrew Mackenzie
27   Posted 07/03/2011 at 23:48:48

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I wouldn't mind having my season ticket taken off me having watched the shite delivered by the club owned by (allegedly) a fat Brit liar!

Go on, I dare you Billy, I certainly won't be in the queue to renew while you remain at the club!

COYB / Kenwright OUT
Christine Foster
28   Posted 07/03/2011 at 23:44:06

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Ah... Political Correctness... the excuse that people use for the lack of manners or the ability to show respect.

Merry Christmas to Seasons Greetings... Mentally challenged to sodding stupid..

It's the ability to offend without offending... the ability to water down an insult to banality (an insult in itself).

The attempt to remove diversity with blandness, a beige mentality. It is those who lead society to embrace banality for ease of control rather than debate the issue.

It's the use of offensive platitudes against the brutality of reality. The ability to sanitise the things in life that make anyone uncomfortable.

Politically Correct? No, just a means of fooling ourselves that the world is a better place if we give it another name. Just a bland immorality which is often even more offensive to the intelligence than the original deed or comment.

It's not a question of PC when someone refers to another in a derogatory manner. It's bad manners. Sanitising it as PC is just as offensive.
Dennis Stevens
29   Posted 08/03/2011 at 00:02:40

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I don't really understand the mentality whereby abusing your own players is considered the best way to encourage an improvement in their performance. That's not to say it's unreasonable to express frustration or to make it clear that one expects better.

However, to just throw insults seems pathetic and pointless ? much like some of the pitiful attempts made here to excuse such behaviour. It seems that most people here think racism is the same as colour prejudice, judging by some of the comments posted. Judging from this thread, it's not the fault of the poor old offender at all, let's blame those who have taken offence!

Larry Boner
30   Posted 08/03/2011 at 00:35:55

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"Pour encourager les autres"

Throw a few John Byng types out every now and again, it appears that the Club are doing their job regarding racist or abusive chanting, it also shuts the other people up when they read about what can happen to them.

The fact that this guy was, apparently, just expressing what several thousand match-goers have thought about some Everton players and was not being really racist or abusive, well they see it as a price worth paying.

But then, the French and Roman armies would execute every tenth man in any unit that failed in their duties, innocent or not, to encourage the others.
Makes you wonder how many of the Everton board would be left if the same actions were taken against them? (Just sack, not execute...)

Dennis Stevens
31   Posted 08/03/2011 at 01:02:04

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I didn't realise the works of Voltaire were such an influence on the club. What would Mr Sibson make of it?
Joe McParland
32   Posted 08/03/2011 at 00:48:36

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If someone calls me Scottish I am quite happy as I am indeed Scottish. If, however someone calls me a sweaty sock, I find it mildly offensive.

Calling someone from France 'French' is not racist, and shouldn't even be seen as offensive. If he had been called a frog or something similar then offence could be taken.

Eric Myles
33   Posted 08/03/2011 at 01:28:33

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Mark (#9), but presumably you'd get thrown out for calling Hibbert a 'useless lazy French bastard' if the word French is now deemed to be racist.
James Flynn
34   Posted 08/03/2011 at 02:11:07

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OK, haven't heard about this until now. Was the comment about Saha actually, 'useless French lazy bastard'?
Kirk McArdle
35   Posted 08/03/2011 at 02:22:50

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I think he used the word "French" to differentiate from the other 10 useless lazy bastards that have been on show for this season.

Don't see a problem with this at all.

England has now gone completely mad. I now live in Shanghai and look from the outside. If I called someone a "benefit cheating bastard that is robbing from the state" is "an English cheating bastard that is robbing from the state" any worse.

Grow a set, England.
James Flynn
36   Posted 08/03/2011 at 03:07:15

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Ok. I looked up this Sibson fellow. I'm not there and like almost everyone who was at Goodison, I didn't hear what this fellow was yelling, except it seems he put 3 other words around the word "French" and offended someone.

My experience with being live at sporting events over here is that someone tossed (and losing his season pass, which is extreme) usually has been keeping up a stream of invective that, finally, someone around him said, "Fuck this. Enough". That's my experience.

Did he really say these 4 words one single time and nothing else similar and lost his season ticket over it? Sorry, business is business and if screaming mean things at players got fans tossed routinely, stadiums across the globe would be empty.

Not going to happen over an isolated incident. I'd guess this fellow has gone at someone or other over and over and someone sitting near him said, "I didn't come here to listen to shit from this loudmouth". He made one comment, one time and lost his season tickets? Nah.

By the way, if you take Saha out of it (who I love despite his papier mache legs) this American doesn't see what's wrong with that combination of other words around the word French. What's the problem?
James I'Anson
37   Posted 08/03/2011 at 08:05:00

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This could only happen at Everton. If this is the stance they want to take then they need to be consistent. By the time next season starts we won't need a new stadium because the one we have will be fuckin empty.

Anyway, what's wrong with being offended?. Nothing happens. You teach your kids "sticks and stones".

Apart from that, the guy who was offended at the possibility of someone else being offended needs to grow a set or stop going to the fuckin match. I bet he didn't confront the guy himself and went directly to the steward... Gobshite.
Tony J Williams
38   Posted 08/03/2011 at 09:12:17

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I wonder if the man complaining was a cheese eating surrender monk.... careful Tony.

I wonder if he was horizontally challenged and adverse to working hard?

As above, I doubt it was an isolated incident and the fella just has had enough. If I had my way the two smelly tossers in front of me would have been booted out 6 seasons ago.
Andy Callan
39   Posted 08/03/2011 at 09:23:12

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It's all me dick this...... Freedom of speech doesn't exist anymore.

You're allowed to call someone that's overweight a fat twat, but can't call someone who is French, a frog.

Do me a favour......

I'd make a point of annoying this person by throwing a pastie at him and snapping his seat before arrival ? that kind of thing ? so he'd take his political correctness and fuck right off.

Arsehole; I hoep you're happy.... No I don't; I hope you get crabs.
Anthony Hughes
40   Posted 08/03/2011 at 11:27:11

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We do now live in a utterly farcical country. I presume Saha didn't hear this insult and so he couldn't have been offended by it. What gives someone else the right to be offended by it? Racists remarks aside, it's a football match, for fuck's sake, and you will hear all sorts of choice comments. If some left wing, PC do-gooder takes offence on behalf of everything and everyone, there'll be nobody left in the ground.
Dave Roberts
41   Posted 08/03/2011 at 11:54:43

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Why has everything gone all italic?

Can I use the word ITALIC or will that get me in trouble?
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
42   Posted 08/03/2011 at 14:04:26

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Just saying the word ITALIC seems to have fixed the problem.

Thanks, Dave!!!

But if you'd said 'Italian'... or worse... 'Itie'... (How do you spell that?)

Eugene Ruane
43   Posted 08/03/2011 at 18:20:34

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Tricky one.

I mean true, French isn't a racial group so it's hard to call the slur 'racial'.

And calling someone who is French, 'French' (I'm guessing) can't be a crime.


I'm guessing this was about the context in which French was used or, come to think of it, maybe it WASN'T the word French that was the problem


Maybe it was the other words.

I've seen fights over less. ("Lazy? What, coz he's not running up and down like knob-head!? Behave yerfuckinself..." etc.)

Also, in the spirit of fairness, consider this.

Let's say an Irish Evertonian constantly screams at our English players "HEY JAKIELKA (whoever) YOU USELESS ENGLISH CUNT!"

I have NO doubt that it wouldn't be long before he was pulled up by those around him with "HEY LAD, WHAT'S ALL THIS FUCKIN' ENGLISH NONSENSE? NO FUCKIN' NEED FOR THAT?"

No need indeed.

Personally I think "HEY SAHA YOU FUCKING LAZY-ARSE CUNT!" is absolutely fine (nb: fine when he's playing like a fucking laz...) but personally I would never, NEVER bring nationality into it.

I just see it as something very slightly sinister.

And for the record, I'll add that I am always suspicious of those who get really worked up about 'political correctness' (especially when it's 'gone mad').
James I'Anson
44   Posted 08/03/2011 at 21:54:23

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It's not an offence to offend someone.
Mike Allison
45   Posted 08/03/2011 at 22:18:55

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"It seems that most people here think racism is the same as colour prejudice"

Er, yeah. If you think you know better, you're wrong. People love to use (and mis-apply) the word 'racism' and 'racist' because of the power it has, and it's usually a base attempt to claim moral high ground in an argument. This doesn't mean the meaning has changed. 'Race' in that it exists at all, is absolutely to do with skin colour, as well as possibly a few other physical characteristics.

Calling someone French is not racist. French people are not all the same race.
Dennis Stevens
46   Posted 08/03/2011 at 23:20:05

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Er, no Mike. I didn't claim to know better, but it seems that in the context of the offence under discusion you may be wrong. A quick look at the website brings up the following: "Race crime doesn't just mean when someone becomes a victim because of the colour of their skin. It also includes nationality, culture and language." In this context it would appear that calling someone French is racist. Whaddya know ? the Law's an ass!

I don't think I know any people who love to use (and mis-apply) the words 'racism' and 'racist' & so I wouldn't claim to understand their motivation in so doing ? I bow to your greater expertise in this area. However, people love to accuse people of attempting to claim the moral high ground in an argument, and it's usually a base attempt to steal the moral high ground in an argument, imho.

As for the meaning of Race, it's got quite a number of them, the definitions & usages vary & change over time, & some argue that it's of no validity beyond the social perceptions of the term. So I don't think it's quite as unchanging as you would have it ? perhaps it's just your own perception of the term that's fixed.

I'm not really one for abusing our own players, but if I am critical of an individual I never feel his nationality, skin colour, or religion is really pertinent to whatever I may consider his shortcomings on the field of play, anymore than I would make reference to his hair colour, marital status etc. Eugene makes the point well.
Brendan O'Doherty
47   Posted 09/03/2011 at 02:53:45

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Spot on, Eugene.
Mark Stone
48   Posted 09/03/2011 at 15:58:54

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Dennis, if racism includes nationality, then what is xenophobia?
Dennis Stevens
49   Posted 09/03/2011 at 17:02:01

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Mark, it's a fear of the noble gas Xenon - ever thought of buying a dictionary?
Peter Dancer
50   Posted 09/03/2011 at 17:51:53

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I wonder how long before someone calls someone else Hitler.
Dennis Stevens
51   Posted 10/03/2011 at 10:18:39

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Elsie Hitler? What's her 'phone number?

I reckon the thread has to reach triple figures before you're into that territory, Peter.

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