Just thought I'd post this up as some people may find it interesting. On the main page of ToffeeWeb there is a story from ESPN saying that good old Bill would not let Moyes move to Manchester United and would 'fight tooth and nail' to keep him. Great bit of news that for anybody who supports Moyes.
However, on Sky Sports there is a different story, credited from Kenwright saying he would not stop Moyes if United ever came calling. Is it just me or is there an inconsistency there?
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_6807638,00.html SKY SPORTS
Chris Ashton, Posted 11/03/2011 at 17:21:16
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 11/03/2011 at 17:30:27
I know there are those amongst us who would willingly pay Davey's fare to Old Trafford but I am not among them. My feeling is that the Scot has worked wonders at Everton and his loyalty over nine years has earned him the chance to show what he can do at a club with money to burn.
Am I alone in this view?
2 Posted 11/03/2011 at 17:45:57
3 Posted 11/03/2011 at 17:47:19
Nor City, Chelsea or Arsenal and so on.
4 Posted 11/03/2011 at 17:47:18
5 Posted 11/03/2011 at 17:58:21
6 Posted 11/03/2011 at 17:58:41
7 Posted 11/03/2011 at 17:54:57
8 Posted 11/03/2011 at 18:04:44
9 Posted 11/03/2011 at 18:33:52
10 Posted 11/03/2011 at 18:41:07
i) What is Everton?s Selling Price?
ii) What % Profit would that make you from your initial investment? 500/600%, More?
iii) Will that Profit be reinvested in the club you love? Kenright Foundation/Stand?? No!!!!
Wondered when he?d be next deflecting the real issues, come on Bill who you turned down lately.
11 Posted 11/03/2011 at 19:31:40
I detest Kenwright with every bone in my body. I got my season ticket renewal yesterday. When the lame duck of a chairman comes out with a statement it makes me sick.
12 Posted 11/03/2011 at 20:00:35
13 Posted 11/03/2011 at 20:03:32
14 Posted 11/03/2011 at 20:18:08
By a fucking country mile.
15 Posted 11/03/2011 at 20:27:12
Well said mate. Yet more sentimental bullshit from the Luvvie. His priority should be the club not appeasing Moyes (who is just an employee of the club).
Although I don't rate Moyes and can't wait to see the back of the man and his boring football, there is a principle at stake here.
16 Posted 11/03/2011 at 20:41:30
17 Posted 11/03/2011 at 20:37:43
18 Posted 11/03/2011 at 20:43:04
What you, Dodd and Kenwright will never understand... there is no bigger or better Association Football Club in the world than Everton.
19 Posted 11/03/2011 at 21:04:09
"I can't afford to sack you but time's up and the natives want a sacrifice ? better you than me, start polishing your CV."
20 Posted 11/03/2011 at 21:08:41
It really depends where he goes next and who we replace him with. Put it this way: who ever replaces him will do well to last 9 years.
21 Posted 11/03/2011 at 21:16:02
Funny that BK rolls out a story linking Moyes to a bigger job just as the masses are starting to turn against him.
In my view, the language BK has used over the years regarding Moyes has put him in a very difficult situation should the time come that Moyes should need to be moved on.
22 Posted 11/03/2011 at 21:22:42
Villa get a new owner and he starts to spend a bit, they move up the table. Owner stops spending so much, they move down. Arsenal decide not to spend as big as the likes of United and Chelsea, while keeping the same manager who was winning them titles and cups, and shock horror, they stop winning. Is it because Wenger suddenly can't manage a football club? No. It's because he doesn't have the same strength of squad as the rest.
If Moyes goes to United, he will win things, no doubt about it. Stop living in the past and stop having tunnel vision when it comes to Everton. The word is perspective, look it up. And try to use it instead of your raw emotions. The fact is Everton's squad is nowhere near as good as United's, Spurs, Arsenal, City or Chelsea and the reason is not "bad management" by Moyes. It's lack of money.
23 Posted 11/03/2011 at 21:35:00
"Sorry Cloughie, we're skint ? just give up, old son"
24 Posted 11/03/2011 at 21:50:18
As far as BK is concerned, it's more lies, you can tell ? his lips moved. Maybe he could say DM is a £50M manager or some other bollocks and his year-old "fight tooth and nail", well pity he's not bothered his blue-rinsed arse for 11 years to remember how to put his hand in his own pocket or sell the club (investment my arse). Another piece of stage-managed lip-service bullshitism from the blue-rinsed cancer at the club... Kenshite Out!
25 Posted 11/03/2011 at 21:21:38
Absolutely. Moyes would not even be in the running. You don't replace the most successful manager in your history with a guy who has never come close to challenging for honours, and has not even managed in the Champions League.
The whole 'Moyes to United' thing is just a lazy media link. They're both Scottish! They're both dour, stubborn gits! They were both average players for Glasgow clubs! Moyes was once rumoured to be in contention to become his assistant! Fuck me, the parallels are uncanny so let's run with it.
There's more chance of Charlie Sheen making it through the year alive and not being found dead in a pool of his own vomit, with a glove puppet stuck up his arse and the lead actress from 'Fisting Nemo', 'Stuart Little Dick' and 'Scrotal Recall' shackled to the ceiling.
26 Posted 11/03/2011 at 22:16:33
Have you watched the Premier League? I'm just curious, because it seems like you have this idea that anyone is capable of winning Championships with the right manager. Try looking around, or get with the times and stop living in the 70s. It's a different game, money dictates who has a chance. The evidence is all around you.
Who wins the league in Spain? Barcelona or Real Madrid. Who are the richest clubs in Spain? Barcelona and Real Madrid. Who are the richest clubs in England? United and Chelsea. Who wins all the titles? United and Chelsea. Richest clubs in Italy? Inter and AC Milan. Who wins all the titles in Italy? Inter and AC Milan. It's not rocket science. And to say otherwise, that money isn't the key to success in football these days is just delusional.
27 Posted 11/03/2011 at 22:24:50
I personally think he would be silly not to show some fight for Moyes, although as per if a player was being poached, the devision would be Moyes's anyway.
However what's has prompted him to say this? Man Utd haven't knocked at the door, have they? So there has to be some propaganda here.
Have BK and Moyes fallen out and Kenwright is trying to move to make out that Moyes wants to leave, etc?
I am speculating but I do not trust Kenwright or his intentions when he opens his mouth.
In Moyes I Trust!
28 Posted 11/03/2011 at 22:50:23
United fans would not accept a constant 4-5-1 formation or wide players playing in centre midfield or midfielders playing as support strikers, defenders playing as holding midfielders... you get the drift. Sir Alex is a master tactician and has turned around numerous games from loosing positions to winning ones in his 25 years at OT.
DM is simply a reactive and ordinary manager. If he were given the opportunity at a big club, he'd be hounded out by the fans. I don't think there are any other supporters more patient then us Evertonians.
29 Posted 11/03/2011 at 23:27:50
A fantasist of the highest order.
30 Posted 11/03/2011 at 23:30:03
Moyes is not the only manager who plays players in different positions, and players need to be flexible enough to adapt at times. Unfortunately, due to smaller finances, we have a smaller squad and therefore are less able to cover for injuries than sides like United and Arsenal, who are able to put players in their natural positions.
31 Posted 11/03/2011 at 23:34:55
DM may not be the best manager ever but I don't know who I would trust more. Managers have come and gone at moneyed clubs without a trophy, yet DM is castigated for winning FA, having worked with nowt. According to this thread, he won't get a job at a 'big' club because he hasn't won anything ? personally I don't think he would be out of work for long.
BK is castigated for not selling out too? Tell me which set of fans are happy with the outcome of their club's takeover in the last 10 years.
An apologist? No, just can't see many better alternatives!
32 Posted 11/03/2011 at 23:59:13
33 Posted 12/03/2011 at 00:08:28
34 Posted 11/03/2011 at 23:54:24
"Cloughie, Mr God. Brian Clough."
OK, you're in ? he's in Bar 54.
But you can't compare the game today to those days, put Cloughie in charge of Everton NOW... my guess is we'd hit about 3rd at best ? with a bit of cash we'd fucking crash it all.
David Barks is 100% Spot On. Cloughies dead. Competitive top football flight football's dead. Cash, I'm afraid, is King.
Here endeth the lesson, Phil.
35 Posted 12/03/2011 at 00:32:23
Celtic's his retirement village, let's be right.
36 Posted 12/03/2011 at 00:06:50
Why would EFC become so much better if SAF was here these last 9 seasons instead of Moyes? He wouldn't have the money he has at Man Utd. He's no better or worse a tactician (where, by the way, I think any manager/Head Coach in any sport is waaaaaay over-rated) than Moyes. Who believes if Ferguson came to EFC those years ago and Moyes had gone to Man Utd to replace him, either teams' fortunes would have been different? I don't think so.
The best managers are the best PEOPLE managers. Not the best tacticians. Moyes has done as well as any of them in that respect. The difference is the talent pool he had to draw from based on finance, not that he's not as good as the famous ones.
37 Posted 12/03/2011 at 02:38:09
38 Posted 12/03/2011 at 04:22:14
So you would take the elevated risk of us going down, just so you can have an opportunity to say, "See I was right about Moyes ? he's blah, blah?" Some blue you are, mate. Wake up, it is Kenwright not Moyes who is THE problem.
39 Posted 12/03/2011 at 04:26:04
The reality is, and I ask all on here who want Moyes out this question, Do you think any team currently in the championship will win the Prem next year? What a stupid question, you may ask, but the reality is our spending is at a level of a lower Championship team, and you expect us to win leagues and cups on a regular basis?
Gobshites have spent millions and have been nowhere near the league title in 21 years, how do you expect us to compete if they couldn't? Like the guy earlier said, perspective.
40 Posted 12/03/2011 at 06:46:34
The money argument has come front and centre in recent months and many Evertonians seen almost comforted in these dire times with this explanation for our current fumbling and foundering in the "competitive" Premier Legaue. We hear too how Moyes worked wonders to turn things around and improve this club since he came, and it's true that he did... initially at least. Most of it happened in the 2002-04 timeframe, were Moyes took this club to his personal zenith ? 4th place and the Champions League.
By any measure, that was over-achievement, considering the limited abilities of the squad Moyes had mostly inherited. But it also demonstrated that Moyes could do what good managers need to be able to do: make the best of what they have, put together teams that can play for each other, motivate them to be better than the sum of their parts, and battle for points.
Over the next few seasons, Moyes continued to improve the squad, but any further progress up the league became plateaued as the efforts to maintain competitive strength where made more and more difficult by injuries, misfortune, and strange periods when the squad failed to perform to it's readily achievable standard. But the myth of over-achievement had been created and incredibly, it was perpetuated ? flying in the face of clear and indisputable improvements Moyes was making to the squad.
The problem was Moyes failed to make parallel improvements to the tactics or playing style of the team... improvements that were effective or consistent enough to elevate them higher up the league, and certainly not in the cups, where his record was nothing short of atrocious. And Europe? Fine against the minnows but sorely lacking whenever Everton played anyone half-decent. At the time, the needed improvements were well within the capabilities of the squad, and should have produced results in terms of continued progress. But they didn't.
Instead, we had stagnation, albeit at the heady level of the "Best of the Rest", the leaders among also-rans trailing the top four. He had the resources and the potential results to break into e top four properly,... but it never happened And this failure clearly demonstrates the shortcomings that would prove beyond any doubt Moyes is not, and never will be, a great manager.
He would go on to reach a peak in 2009, with the ill-fated FA Cup Final, when his team was gifted a fantastic goal in the opening minute but he had seemingly no idea how to get them to build on it or ensure that they could defend it to the death.
Since that sad and fateful day, the money argument may have some purchase ('scuse the pun). But before that time, even Moyes himself was totally determined to win against all the financial disadvantages. He showed in those earlier seasons that he had some of the attributes to do it, along with the oft-repeated ability as a 'young' manager to learn from his mistakes and change. But we hear very little of that talk any more, and if look at his words, he gave up believing he could triumph against the insurmountable power of money in the game. He lost his mojo. And we lost ours.
41 Posted 12/03/2011 at 07:29:16
I believe Moyes is in the third category. The players are disillusioned, and Moyes realizes this. But the fact is nothing can be done about that in the next 3 months. I think we'll see big changes next season. There won't be money spent because Everton don't have money and won't until Kenwright is forced to sell. But players will be sold and new players will replace them. I am not, and I haven't seen anyone else in this thread claiming Moyes is the best manager in the league. But I am saying he is damn good, and has done a damn good job under incredibly tough circumstances. Circumstances that a Ferguson or Wenger or Mourinho would not stand for for one season, let alone nine.
And if he went to United, with that squad and that spending power, he would never be short of players in the squad and would most certainly be competing for trophies every season. I hope he stays, but I can honestly say that if he leaves I will always be wishing the best for him and success. Because he has only ever done a very good job for Everton and given his all to Everton, while representing this club in a very respectful manner.
42 Posted 12/03/2011 at 07:48:07
43 Posted 12/03/2011 at 07:51:50
I don't think that is the problem, the problem is nobody wants to buy. BK could, I suppose, be forced to put the club officially up for sale by a boardroom revolt or something....but that would be meaningless if nobody was willing to buy it. And nobody is!
44 Posted 12/03/2011 at 09:20:44
45 Posted 12/03/2011 at 09:24:06
46 Posted 12/03/2011 at 09:15:08
47 Posted 12/03/2011 at 09:44:19
48 Posted 12/03/2011 at 09:33:32
"...but I can honestly say that if he leaves I will always be wishing the best for him and success".
So will I and so I think will 99.9% of Evertonians.
But I'd love to see him go as soon as possible.
Putting (no fucking) money to one side, for me, things have got stale (it happens) and imo Moyes doesn't have the one thing needed to..um..'unstale' things - imagination.
I believe new/fresh is needed now....badly.
49 Posted 12/03/2011 at 11:16:26
A lot of EFC managers have been sacked, some have resigned, but none used the club as a stepping stone to 'a bigger club', because Everton were always seen as 'a big club' in and of itself.
We've already seen players use us a stepping stone in recent years ? Jeffers started it, continued by Rooney and Lescott. But a manager going ? that is a seismic change in how the club should be/will be perceived.
I only hope if Moyes do go, it kickstarts the mainstream Evertonian backlash against BK. You've got one gang of people who think Moyes is rubbish and 'why would Utd take him anyway', and you've got another gang of people who dread Moyes going. Two diverse opinions, but we can all agree on one thing ? if a far richer chairman/owner than BK was in place, Moyes would have a far better chance of succeeding. For me, that's the overriding feeling of a massive missed opportunity, and something that we should all be rallying against NOW, and not in 3 months time when the worst has happened.
50 Posted 12/03/2011 at 11:46:37
If a fall guy is needed then Moyes will be that man ahead of BK every time. This dramatist nonsense is spouted by "our biggest fan" nearly every season about one thing or another.
Moyes was a breath of fresh air when he first came to Everton but after 9 years has not instilled an ethos into the team/ squad of how to adapt their play against different teams and his lack of motivation has spread through the players. Time to go, with best wishes from me.
51 Posted 12/03/2011 at 11:44:51
He's hit the buffers and as Eugene @48 said we need to unstale...
I don't think he'll walk straight into another job and MU is just bizarre fantasy. He needs a sabbatical to give him perspective
As many have said, I would wish him well.
52 Posted 12/03/2011 at 11:55:12
I still insist a top-class man-manager with innovative use of tactics, awareness of players' strengths and needs and the right support team alongside him would pull back a massive chunk of the Rich Club's advantage.
If it's only ever going to be about money (it's took Spurs and Newcastle long enough and City are still waiting) we might as well all "get real" and give up. And since when has love of Everton been about commense sense and reality?
53 Posted 12/03/2011 at 12:37:08
For them, and they say a lot of other Utd fans they know, its a joke that Moyes is even being considered for the job.
54 Posted 12/03/2011 at 12:43:50
And that's exactly what we had in Moyes. However, at the end of the day, if you are not backed in the transfer market, you don't progress, and not to do it when we finished 4th was almost criminal. There is a reason the biggest spending teams end up in the top 4 virtually every year.
To think Spurs used to look at us as the model to follow...........look where the two teams are now!
55 Posted 12/03/2011 at 13:39:54
Anyway, I don't care what Kenwright says, anymore. Bad jokes.
56 Posted 12/03/2011 at 15:29:41
57 Posted 12/03/2011 at 17:39:59
I also don't think he'd command respect amongst their players and his arrival would mean a swift exit stage left for Shrek!
Also Man Utd have three or four 20-goal-a-season strikers in their ranks and we all know what Moyes's track record with strikers is.
I agree with a previous poster who said he thinks this is Kenwright's way of saying, "It's out the door you go go, son." I also think his next move will be to Celtic.
But just as a footnote: 'Appy 'Arry at Spurs is due up on tax fraud in the summer so, if he's found guilty, there'll be an opening there.
58 Posted 12/03/2011 at 18:13:29
59 Posted 12/03/2011 at 18:29:25
60 Posted 12/03/2011 at 20:04:09
I suspect the decissions have been made between EFC & Moyes already; sad really... but life goes on. Transfers may even fund Moyes's seperation deal!!!
61 Posted 12/03/2011 at 21:15:28
However the fact Fergie is a close friend of Moyes may help him get some sort of scouting job for one of the big clubs, as although I don't rate him that much as a coach, I definitely think he has something special when it comes to unearthing talent. Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka, Fellaini are all testament to that.
62 Posted 12/03/2011 at 20:37:54
63 Posted 12/03/2011 at 21:24:54
64 Posted 13/03/2011 at 10:16:42
The manager you so love has lost to Brentford, Reading. Oldham, Shrewsbury, Dinamo Bucharest, Sporting Lisbon... and in the same period I have seen Birmingham win the Carling Cup, McLeish less than 3 years in charge, Middlesboro won the Carling Cup, got to the final of the Uefa Cup, Portsmouth twice got to the Final of the FA Cup and won it once, others like Cardiff etc have reached a final. In 9 years, Moyes has got there once.
Look at the teams in this season's quarter finals of the FA Cup Bolton now in the semis... West Ham, Stoke. So, if Moyes is this magical manager, can you tell me why hasn't he done better in the Cups? The answer is simple, he is too negative ? Reading at home one up front!!!!! And as for Man United wanting him, well only a man who puts farces on the stage in London could come out with that quote.
So, to all you Moyes fans who make excuses for him in the League, please tell me why Everton under Moyes are crap in the Cup? Before he came to Goodison, we had the record appearances in the FA Cup Semi Final, 23... it has always been the Everton tradition to do well in the FA Cup. Even in the League Cup, Gordon Lee, with the help of Billy Bingham, got us to the Final.
That is why many Evertonians are against Moyes: apart from his crap negative league football, in the Cups we are clueless.
65 Posted 13/03/2011 at 18:26:01
When BK was talking about Moyes going to United, what he actually meant was FC United. That's if they'd have him. Stale financial input, stale tactics and these days most of all stale motivation.
Time for something new. What, I don't know... but one thing that is apparent: we, as it stands, are bored shitless the way things are now.
I think reading a lot of posts here, I get the impression it's an age thing. The teens and 20-year-olds mostly seem happy with what's going on but, when the older lot get to speak, we see a differing picture. Don't forget, for us, it's not just nine years... it's from 1995. It's nearly 16 years since we've won anything so you can see why the older people on here are the most pissed off.
I'm not having a go at anyone young ? it's just us older people need some silverware soon. Everton Football Club will be here even after the 20-year-olds have long gone so, for us oldies, we have even less time. That's the reason some of us are growing impatient.
And let's face it: nine years was always long enough to check out if you really knew somebody and what their attributes were.
66 Posted 13/03/2011 at 22:12:01
The Premier League of 2011 is a far cry from even 20 years ago. David Barks is right ? speak to fans of any other club ? money now is everything. And though it's surely understandable for every fan to doubt Moyes's decisions at times, not many can suggest a plausible, better replacement. We have no money ? end of (as a youngster might nowadays say).
67 Posted 14/03/2011 at 10:14:06
For the record, I think Kenwright is opening the door for Moyes to leave because that way he doesn't have to sack him and Moyes really doesn't deserve that. I don't think the money is there to rebuild and that means more of the same. A new manager gets the chance to sell of half the team and bring in a bit of new ideas and new blood and take the pressure off BK.
Win-win all round as far as Kenwright is concerned: we get a fresh face, money in the door and Moyes goes on to whoever... with crocodile tears from our chairman.
If we clear relegation before the end of the season, it would not surprise me if Moyes goes then, when we are safe, giving any new manager the time to review and sell in the summer and hit the ground running (er... well... yes...) at the start of the new season.
Has all the feeling of being a done deal already...
68 Posted 14/03/2011 at 16:50:59
The moment I met David over supper of fried eggs that Jenny had rustled up, I asked him, "David, would that be one egg or two, and he said "Aigh, Bill, make that two sunny side up." I knew we had chemistry.
But you see, this is the deal of the century for David, I have been searching 24/7 for investment, I've seen the video tapes of the players that he has been scouting, and thought 'Wow!!!' ? this guy is like Bily; something else.
I didnt want to be the guy who sold Rooney, you know the guy he reminds me of a cross between John Wayne and Mickey Rooney, he really is that good, I wouldn't sell him for £50 million, just watch this space...
And so it's the same with David, just like dear old Goodison, I didn't want to be the chairman who let this happen to Everton. We are now actively seeking David's replacement, I've got Christopher Samuelson, Keith Harris and Orville all looking out for a suitable candidate.
My good friend Sir Philip Green, you know he's my friend and therefore a friend of Everton, is having a word with Sir Alan Sugar as we speak, he is looking for an apprentice in the mould of David, someone who gets us playing like the days when I stood in the Boys Pen fending off the older boys trying to pick my pocket.
The money will be in the bank tomorrow, trust me.
69 Posted 15/03/2011 at 23:46:59
Well, I'm on the "Kenwright Out" wing, but even so I wouldn't welcome just any buyer but, to answer your request, how about Chelsea, Man City, QPR and even Leeds and Ken Bates?
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.