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Attacking Intent?

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It says today on the BBC website "Manager David Moyes would welcome Rangers captain David Weir back to Everton in a coaching capacity".

I would have thought we had enough defenders on the coaching team, I noticed when Ray Wilkins became available, that he (David Moyes) didn't make any soundbites about him. I know Wilkins probably wouldn't have come to Everton anyway, but it does speak volumes about our manager's mindset, and outlook to attacking football doesn't it?

After several years of being anti-Moyes, I am now desperate to give him the benefit of the doubt because of the lack of funds available to him, but sadly his defensive obsession makes it very hard.

Joe McMahon, Rossendale     Posted 21/03/2011 at 16:50:09

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David Barks
1   Posted 21/03/2011 at 19:19:44

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No it doesn't speak volumes about his mindset. Unless Ray Wilkins played for Moyes and captained his team, being a key figure during Moyes's breakthrough as a Premier League manager with Everton. Otherwise, it's a case of Moyes welcoming one of his former players who he has a lot of respect for. But go ahead, read FAR too much into it. Of course it means Moyes hates scoring goals and only wants Everton to defend.
Tom Rowe
2   Posted 21/03/2011 at 19:48:43

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Stupid comment! Would you not say that our lack of clean sheets this season could do with correcting?
Joe McMahon
3   Posted 21/03/2011 at 19:52:02

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To all who are just going to slag this off. Was it not Brian Clough (amongst others) who said "Attack is the best form of defence"?

Maybe I'm just trying to reason why EVERY time we take the lead, we always then have to hang on/defend for our dear lives to the final whistle?

Maybe I'm just trying to reason why almost all attacking substitutions are no earlier than the 70th minute mark, even when losing?

And finally, maybe I'm just trying to reason why we played at West Ham this year with no, yes that's NO strikers in the starting 11, against a team who were bottom of the league. If I remember correctly, Beckford came on the 90th minute. As fans can we not even question such mind-boggling decisions?

Jon Cox
4   Posted 21/03/2011 at 20:27:34

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Spot on Joe, the last thing we need is another defensive coach. If the defence we have now is not good enough then get rid. Personally, I think our back line was never as good since we let Carsley go.

We need an attack-minded coach. The man for me would be a guy who is finished playing but still connected to the game. Errr... someone like Alan Shearer. There's a few of them about and could enrich the tactics of our squad. Get rid of Round and get someone who knows about how to set up play with the result of scoring goals. End of.

Just a thought...
Jeff Armstrong
5   Posted 21/03/2011 at 20:34:33

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Wilkins.... that attack at all costs, gung-ho, maverick....known as

Work it out for yourself, youngun.
Joe McMahon
6   Posted 21/03/2011 at 20:51:01

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Jeff, I'm not saying as a player Ray Wilkins was a Thierry Henry (I never did), I just thought his experience of working at Chelsea, with several goal machines and attacking midfielders, it would benefit Moyes's development. As Moyes is 47 he ain't gonna change his safety first ways by himself. Remember Moyes's tactics have not actually won anything, and he didn't get Preston promoted, now look what Holloway did at Blackpool last year. And No, I'm not saying Ian Holloway is the messiah, it's just there is another way.
Joe McMahon
7   Posted 21/03/2011 at 21:17:06

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Before anyone picks me up on the Moyes didn't get Preston promoted, I meant not to the Premier League. Holloway and Coyle went all out (Harry Redknapp but with no budget) attack and with unfashionable cheap squads got to the Premier League. I'm not wanting Moyes out, I just feel he needs some help with attacking play.
Gavin Ramejkis
8   Posted 21/03/2011 at 21:25:08

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I'd like to know if Moyes has ever considered bringing in an attack-minded coach? DM was a defender, Round was a two-bob defender, Irvine was a winger and debatable but did we play better when he was Moyes's assistant? Stubbs was a defender and is another coach.

Surely at the club there is a position for an attack-minded coach; if Howard has a goalkeeping coach, surely an attack-minded coach for the midfield and strikers is common sense?

Dick Fearon
9   Posted 21/03/2011 at 21:39:30

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Week by week my once absolute belief in Moyes is seeping away. Starting with our poor pre-season that led to a situation where, 4 weeks after the big kick-off, Davy admitted it would take another 4 weeks for us to hit our straps and catch up in a physical sense with the rest of the league. That fact alone would have had many managers shown the door.

To consider another defensive coach demonstrates that what goes on over the half way line is a mystery to Moyes and he is only comfortable with defensive strategies.

Guy Hastings
10   Posted 21/03/2011 at 22:10:00

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Maybe Steve Round is inked in as SAF's replacement and DM neds a bit of training ground cover.
Alex Buckley
11   Posted 21/03/2011 at 21:47:12

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Said the same thing a while back about getting rid of Round & bringing someone like Wilkins in, but you know he?s too much of a character for Moyes (who likes his Yes-men).

Moyes needs someone who?ll stand up to him & tell him he?s being too negative; Round is a waste of space for me. What?s the point of a mini-me wannabe? Get someone in who?ll add some attacking intent.

Rather have Dunc in, at least we?d get some passion (not sat there with a blank expression), decent chants from the faithful & you know it wouldn?t be long before a Gattuso type dust up.

All joking aside, at least we?re not Villa. Spending more on Bent than it cost for our entire team on Saturday. Or Brum, yes, winning the Carling Cup but look doomed after spending heavily on transfers/wages. If Blackburn went down with them (wonder what the odds) it would be sweet.

Could be some real bargains going in the Summer.
Trevor Mackie
12   Posted 21/03/2011 at 22:28:33

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If Moyes and Round, both defenders by trade, need help with the defence, what the fuck are they doing?

Don't anyone say concentrating on attack, ffs.
Craig Taylor
13   Posted 21/03/2011 at 22:35:57

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Definitely agree an attack-minded coach would be a plus, but also a foreign influence. Wonder if Zola would be up for a job? Still personally think Andy Gray would be worth a punt!
Dave Lynch
14   Posted 21/03/2011 at 23:17:11

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I just want a new manager I'm afraid. Fucking sick of defensive, "protect what you have at all costs" football. After what seems like an age, I have had enough of Davey boy.

End of.

Dennis Stevens
15   Posted 22/03/2011 at 00:01:06

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I don't think a coach is necessary, a taxi would do!
Andy Crooks
16   Posted 22/03/2011 at 00:03:34

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I don't think David Moyes would be looking to David Weir for defensive advice. I think, though, that how he could advise on being a proper professional, keeping fit, positional sense and how to motivate oneself even if it seems there is little to play for. Nothing wrong with any of that.
John Daley
17   Posted 22/03/2011 at 01:13:11

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"I noticed when Ray Wilkins became available, that he (David Moyes) didn't make any soundbites about him."

Well, why would he? He's got no connection to, or any shared history at all with the shifty, slap headed, 'Hills Have Eyes' looking motherfucker. It was probably just a perfectly innocent, supportive comment made about a guy who served as skipper under Moyes and was always a consummate professional whilst at the club. Nothing more. I wouldn't expect him to be rolling up at Finch Farm any time soon and 'teaching' Heitinga that there's more to backs to the wall defending than half-heartedly dangling a limp, trembly, leg in front of the ball.

As for Ray Wilkins? How is it that, ever since he was sacked, his reputation has shot through the roof? I've heard fans from other clubs confidently declaring on phone-ins that "what we want to be doing, right, to take us to the next level, is getting Ray Wilkins in to work with the lads. I think it's outrageous that we haven't brought 'Butch' to the club yet. He's top class and obviously must have an unparalleled intergalactic knowledge of the game because, you know, he was highly regarded by Gianluca Vialli and that. You can tell when he's on Sky that he knows his shit, like". Sorry, but the guy was basically a nodding dog at Chelsea and was merely kept around as the token old boy. Kind of like a less fat and odious Sammy Lee.
El-ray Jackson
18   Posted 22/03/2011 at 02:24:04

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John Daley ? I love your description of Ray Wilkins. Had me in sticthes!
Alex Kociuba
19   Posted 22/03/2011 at 03:06:26

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Judging by what Weir has said here:

It's safe to say he'll be back with us at the end of the season. As he's still going strong, we may even see him in the back line again next season (who would'vethought)?
Ray Roche
20   Posted 22/03/2011 at 06:30:15

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We DON'T need another defensive coach.
We DO need a GOOD defensive coach. One who knows how to keep a clean sheet on the pitch as opposed to on their bed.
Andy Callan
21   Posted 22/03/2011 at 07:50:05

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We don't need another coach; we need players.....

Let's face it, if Baines, Rodwell & Coco are sold in the summer, we'll at least have some cash to spend on others players.

There's a story there that Madrid are going to offer £25m for Coco ? personally I'd bite their hand off. £25m off the Mancs for Rodwell would be good business too. £15m for Baines and you've got £75m for new players all of a sudden.

Having said that, we'll then have to replace the 3 above and who's to say that at least some of that cash wouldn't got to pay off the debt.

It's all pie in the sky I know, but the cash has got to come from somewhere, FFS.
Andy Callan
22   Posted 22/03/2011 at 07:54:37

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£65m - obviously maths was never my strong point at school....!!!!!!!

Wayhey - ha ha ha ha.

At least the sun is shining today anyway.
Andrew Clare
23   Posted 22/03/2011 at 09:08:55

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I agree, Joe. Several times this season we have started matches playing excellent attacking football and then, as soon as we have scored, we have resorted to all out defence. Defending deeper and deeper as the match progresses until inevitably we concede.

To be dominated by a team like Fulham for almost all of the second half as we were on Saturday is not the kind of Everton I want to see. The last thing we want is another defender coaching our players. How bloody boring!

Craig Taylor
24   Posted 22/03/2011 at 09:17:45

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Wouldn't sell Baines at any cost, Rodwell and Fellaini however wouldn't bother me as much if it was for silly money. We could easily replace these two but Baines not as easily!
Phil Bellis
25   Posted 22/03/2011 at 09:24:37

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"Let's get out there and twat 'em" ? D Lister

Great football philosophy; Everton's mantra 1966-70. Not many trophies, but, by God, the greatest attacking Everton side I've ever seen.
Gavin Ramejkis
26   Posted 22/03/2011 at 10:05:57

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Phil #26, love it, at least go down fighting and why Blackpool have got so many fans this season more entertainment in their games than any other. Before I get the usual smart arses saying yeah but look at their league position blah blah yawn yawn, try looking at what their squad cost and think of a higher quality squad playing at least some games that way.
Andrew Clare
27   Posted 22/03/2011 at 11:37:46

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Phil (#26) ? I'm with you!
Seamus Murphy
28   Posted 22/03/2011 at 12:00:38

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Andy Callan - You are now talking muck on two threads. Sell three of our best players?
In the other thread you complain about us playing too many defenders and now you want to compound the problem by selling two more midfielders? Not to mention our most attacking defender!!
Norman Merrill
29   Posted 22/03/2011 at 12:11:21

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Maybe Davy Moyes feels that the other Davy (Weir) will bring some real fighting spirit to the club, after what he has witnessed up there these past couple of seasons.

May I add that Dave Weir was a great servant to the Blues, and I would not mind him back in some capacity. Just a thought?

Tim Spring
30   Posted 22/03/2011 at 12:19:17

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Andy Callan do you really think we would get £15M for Baines or £25M for Rodwell? It may be a shock to some fans but there are other players with as much potential as our boys. If SAF wants Rodwell he will pay what he thinks is right; if not, he can go to Jordan Henderson at Sunderland. If Baines is priced too highly then there are players like Celtic's Mexican LB about as well.

We won't get over inflated prices on players. But I think bringing Doddy back could be good for the club. He has kept himself in a decent enough condition to play past 40 and knows how to defend. Having him teaching the likes of Mustafi, Duffy and Co would probably improve them as players. Even though it is defence-minded I'm sure we would rather have 2 or 3 exceptional talents coming through at the back then some journeymen who will get shipped out at the first thought...

Final thought, and this isn't the thread for it but, what's happening with the young guy we took on loan from Sporting Lisbon in Jan? He is English and I presume has linked up with either the ressies or the U18s? Is he any good?
Tommy Gourlay
31   Posted 22/03/2011 at 16:03:04

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Kevin Sheedy is on the coaching staff (youth coach), should he not maybe be brought up to the first team? Or do they think he's more important where he is: ingraining the skills and vision into the players at a young age... which aren't then used later! ;)
Brian Waring
32   Posted 22/03/2011 at 16:38:28

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Gavin, spot on about Blackpool, love to watch them when they're on the box. As you say, there will be the usual suspects going blah, blah blah etc,but they have been a breath of fresh air to the Prem and, fingers crossed, they will stay up.
Karl Masters
33   Posted 22/03/2011 at 17:42:34

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We certainly kept more clean sheets when David Weir was playing, so maybe that's worth a look.

However, it's not always quite that simple. After defence starts at the front and I'm sure our defenders would like players playing further forward to stop giving the ball away cheaply when we are attacking and inviting other teams to counter attack which has happened too often this season.

Personally, I would like to see a dedicated coach for the forward players. At Spurs apart from Joe Jordan, who was a top class forward, you often see Clive Allen in the dugout ? a man who was the first £1M teenager, scored goals for just about every London club including FIFTY in one season at Spurs.

For Everton, I have always thought that someone like Peter Beardsley woud be ideal but, as he is on the staff at Newcastle and a Barcodes fan, I'm not sure who I would go with... perhaps a foreign player who could teach our players some new ideas.

Jon Cox
34   Posted 22/03/2011 at 20:37:03

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Our defence went down hill when Carsley left. Problem: we have no Carsley; solution: get one. For me, break the bank for Charlie Adam.

Then worry about the attack. Get £20 mill for Arteta then get Adam. He's good in front of a back four, he can attack with a vengeance and most of all when it comes to dead ball kicks like corners, free-kicks etc then he's a million times better than....
Andy Crooks
35   Posted 23/03/2011 at 01:00:57

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Jon. Adam would fill the the Carsley role perfectly. In my view I'd rather have Adam, who is currently doing the business, than Rodwell, who someday might. The money left over might appease the banks and buy us anyone wide with pace.

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