So. Heitinga has been giving off to the Mirror. Who can blame him, frankly? He should play alongside Jagielka or Distin as an automatic choice... (Distin, in my view.)
A proven international, he is a centre-back who can actually play the ball out of defence. He is never a holding midfielder and his Everton career will perish if he is stuck there.
It is time to play the best man in the best position and for the coach to find the balls to leave certain players on the bench rather than shoehorn them in where they just don't fit.
Andy Crooks, Posted 27/03/2011 at 23:17:09
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1 Posted 27/03/2011 at 23:48:25
2 Posted 27/03/2011 at 23:52:10
3 Posted 28/03/2011 at 00:14:29
Though Moyes likes to accommodate defenders into the team, rather than playing them in midfield, why not try three at the back?
Obviously we as supporters would prefer to see a 3-5-2, but it could be sold to Moyes as a 5-3-2 or 5-4-1. It would work better if Coleman were fit, but would still prefer it then sticking defenders in midfield. Gives creative players available more freedom to attack such as Osman, Billy and Baines.
4 Posted 28/03/2011 at 00:31:04
His ego is attrocious and I think that's the third time he's said publicly now.
I don't rate him above Jagielka or Distin frankly. He's a very composed defender but his marking isnt great and his tackling decent. His attitude on the pitch is sometimes great, sometimes lazy.
Distin and Jagielka prove it on the pitch they have commitment to the club and wouldnt in a million years criticise Everton.
5 Posted 28/03/2011 at 00:50:40
Distin has had an excellent season and Baines has been great.
Right back has been a problem with neither Neville or Hibbert being outstanding.
Someone like Alan Hutton would have been my choice last season when he was unhappy at Spurs. Coleman can play there but has done a good job as a raiding wingback and knows where the goal is.
He can only get better next season along with Rodders. Biley can go as he hasn't really stepped up to the plate despite a couple of excellent goals.
A new right back would really improve the defence and hopefully Duffy will be given a good run out in the off season as Distin,well as he has been playing is not getting any younger.
6 Posted 28/03/2011 at 01:18:02
How do you come to that conclusion? He's done absolutely nothing to merit a starting place this season. He has been well off the pace, weak in the tackle and seemingly disinterested from the moment he collapsed in the centre circle after bottling out of a challenge in the Wolves game. Ok, so he can pass the ball a bit, but that doesn't make up for the fact he can't jump, won't commit to a 50/50 challenge and would struggle to outsprint Steven Hawking. If he really considers himself to be amongst the top ten central defenders in the world then the guy is an even bigger fuckwit than he looks.
7 Posted 28/03/2011 at 02:09:32
He just kicked fresh air and opposing players and was rightly sent off.
"Best 2 or even 10 defenders in the world"!!
He must be on drugs.
8 Posted 28/03/2011 at 03:21:42
9 Posted 28/03/2011 at 03:24:57
As well as Distin has played this season we are going to have to replace him very soon. The guy is about to turn 33 and next season could be his swansong. We have not seen anything of Duffy and Mustafa to know if they are capable of making the grade.
Who do we replace these guys with. Who knows. I could go all FM and sprout names out but no-one knows how much DM (or whoever is manager then) will have. With the amount of fresh blood I think we need with the transfer kitty (if any) I am sure it will be bargain basement.
10 Posted 28/03/2011 at 03:45:00
Unfortunantely, Heitinga's also too honest for his own good. Along with admitting he would love to play for one of the most successful and exciting football club in the world (heinous offense), he has told Moyes that he won't play RB anymore which is completely against Moyes's ethos of having a team heavily composed of Jacks-of-all-trades. (I could hazard a guess that he has probably shown his distaste for the middle as well but I digress...)
Heitinga himself knows that he is not at his best in anything but his preferred centre-back position and, as an ambitious footballer with a career at the top that roughly spans only 10 years, he would like to be seen performing in his best position. If you were an ambitious lawyer, would you like your firm to stick you in the accounts department and then be regarded as not being all that good at your job? Just because they pay your wages doesn't mean they should be allowed to stifle your chances of advancing your career.
When challenged by the media, JH was honest enough to admit how much he'd like to be playing Champions League football (with Everton preferably ? but most probably chose to ignore that detail) and be an automatic choice for the first team. Because, having played for the second best team in the world, he'd like his stock to be kept high. How dare he. I must be the only person to find his comments a breath of fresh air ? does everyone not still remember Rooney's famous T-shirt and Lescot's deafening silence over his move to City?
Most footballers and their agents are constantly sleazing away in the background trying to get the best deal and most prestigious club for themselves / their clients, all the while disingenuously kissing the badge and brown-nosing their current employers. We've all heard the rumours about clubs coming in for JH in the January transfer window. But, just because Heitinga doesn't stifle his thoughts and come out with the usual trite repeated ad nauseum ("Yeah, I'm really happy here and haven't heard about interest from x, y z.."), he gets ripped to pieces. The only reason the press haven't harassed any of our other players is because no other club is interested in buying them at present. No other club is interested in buying them because... well, I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
In fact, the only player I can think of that has been consistently linked with a move away and who has consistently had to repeat (and been true to his word about) his intentions to stay with the club, is Arteta. And a lot of the same people on this website would probably wish they could take back some of the things they'd said about him a couple of months ago. Lucky for them they weren't quoted in the Mirror.
11 Posted 28/03/2011 at 05:54:09
12 Posted 28/03/2011 at 06:54:43
13 Posted 28/03/2011 at 07:13:24
14 Posted 28/03/2011 at 07:59:51
15 Posted 28/03/2011 at 07:53:46
He was IMO player of the year last year and has been messed about all over the place this one. Moyes has made a mug of him playing him in midfield, a lot of the time with Arteta who hasn't put a tackle in or tracked a run all season, making Johnny look worse again.
It's true he has run around kicking lumps out of people but IMO this is a desperate attempt to get in the side and be noticed.
While on loads of other threads were talking about people who stand up to be counted, winners, people who hate losing etc. we have one on the bench who can't get a look-in despite being the only proper defender at the club who can pass.
16 Posted 28/03/2011 at 08:02:45
17 Posted 28/03/2011 at 08:39:34
What a stupid comment. Moyes bought Heitinga and Yobo has been at the club for 8 or 9 years under Moyes.
"It is time to play the best man in the best position."
Could not agree more. That's why I am glad the two best central defenders at the club are currently playing in those positions.
18 Posted 28/03/2011 at 09:06:15
The moment Moyes said he will keep Osman and Hibbert for as long as they want to stay at the club, to renewing Anichebe's contract and letting the Yak go, you have to be concerned about what's going through his mind.
19 Posted 28/03/2011 at 09:47:27
The man does not deserve to be in the first eleven because he has been shite and his passing woeful, even in two of our good performances against Chelsea in the Cup away and Newcastle he came on and put us in trouble with his garbage passing you harp on about.
20 Posted 28/03/2011 at 10:01:57
I don't want to sound unfair on Distin, but if you look at the stats we've got a terrible record of keeping clean sheets when he's played so surely Heitinga and Jags deserve a chance. Distin hasn't been dropped out of the side once, his form has been good recently but he was not brilliant earlier in the season.
Most players will be happy to play in any position for the team but, when you ask them to do it on a regular basis, that's what's upset Heitinga and the fans because we know he's no good in midfield or at right back!
21 Posted 28/03/2011 at 09:56:20
22 Posted 28/03/2011 at 10:08:33
And as for Distin, Man Utd and Reading aside, the lad has been great... second only to Baines this season.
23 Posted 28/03/2011 at 10:05:06
Jags and Distin are the best two of three but Distin is 33 years old and must be replaced sometime ? I just hope that is a consideration before any deals are made. Distin is an incredible athlete and obviously looks after himself.
Jags is Everton through and through and puts more blocks in than anyone. He just needs to improve his distribution.
24 Posted 28/03/2011 at 10:05:47
He's too small, too slow, and too cowardly to be a Premier League centre-half, and I'm not even prepared to entertain the idea that he can play in midfield. He occasionally sprays a good 50-yard ball but generally his passing is sloppy and his excessive confidence in his own ability often lets him down and puts the defence in trouble.
I hope he leaves, and I think he'll do well abroad as frankly it's much easier abroad.
So I sort of agree with Don Kiddick's "Shut the door on your way out", but I'd rather he left the door open. Can't see anyone else coming through it though...
25 Posted 28/03/2011 at 10:30:01
Yes, playing him does encourage better football as we build from the back more.
But... Jags is a better out-and-out defender, although his distribution is Sunday League at best.
However, opinions vary and people's views differ but we all seem to over looking the main factor here: MOYES.
We all know he has favourites, whether we admit it or not, he has and always will have. It just so happens that his favourite centre-back pairing is clearly Jags and Distin. We can't have too many complaints; Jags is beginning to hit form and, a couple of games aside, Distin has been quality.
The only thing that grates on my nerves is that Heitinga came in when Jags was injured and, baring the missed tackle against Blackpool, he played very well. Chelsea at home, he didn't give Drogba a sniff.
However, as soon as Jags was fit; Johnny was back to gaining splinters on the bench.
Heitinga has a bad game, Jags is straight back in next game. The other way round; Jags keeps his place.
I can't help but feel that Moyes favours Jags so will always pick him over Heitinga; no matter how well Heitinga plays. This is obviously unfair so I can see why he is frustrated.
Just to finish off; you've got to love his self belief/arrogance. Yes, on his day he is a very good centre back; but come on, Johnny, best 10 in the world... my arse!
26 Posted 28/03/2011 at 11:09:32
To be honest I think it is for the best of all if he leaves in the summer. As said before, I think that German clubs will be prepared to pay a huge transfer fee.
27 Posted 28/03/2011 at 11:23:30
Why should he be automatic choice for centre-back? He's not as good as Distin (Player of the Season) or Jagielka (should be England regular).
Give Heitinga a bike and a flag and let him cycle to Barcelona.
Maybe he can give Fellaini and his dad a lift to Real Madrid on the way?
28 Posted 28/03/2011 at 11:32:41
I'm pretty sure when we signed him Moyes was saying one of the reasons was he was versatile and could play in several defensive positions. Pienaar also said the same. Surely that cropped up in negotiations, although seeing past the bit about a structure busting wage might be hard.
Wish we'd have chanced the dosh on a permanent deal for Banega. Ah well, another massive wage of the accounts come the end of the season. Shock return for Yobo next season?
29 Posted 28/03/2011 at 11:37:33
I like Heitinga, he's a quality centre back. He is not a central midfielder although he does do an adequate job in our half of the pitch. He isn't a fullback; with the right backs, we have he shouldn't need to play there. Jagielka and Distin are also excellent mature centre-backs.
The simple fact is three into two won't go and Heitinga on performance has lost out. What an enormous surprise it is that he is considering his future! This is the biggest non-news story of the century.
He is being paid an enormous sum of money to sit on the bench. He could get a similar amount and start most weeks on the pitch in the Bundesliga. I say hats off to Moyes for picking on merit not reputation. If Jagielka has a few poor games Heitinga should be back in. I understand if he wants to play rather than warm the bench.
What seems to me a miracle is that we have such excellent centre-halves at the club considering we are such a tinpot outfit in the middle of the Premier League. I suppose I might also say that, given we have Yobo and Rodwell as aspirant centre-backs, we have invested perhaps too much in our reserve centre-back and that money should perhaps be more wisely utilized in the striking department.
You do need excellent strong centre-backs though. The ball is always coming at you and you have to deal with the fastest, hardest and most skilful players on the pitch. Look at Newcastle when they had a soft centre-back pairing, they went straight to relegation.
Heitinga shouldn't be castigated for speaking the truth, especially when he's only stating the bloody obvious and also when we as Evertonians are likely to win whatever happens (he would cost a lot of money to buy and would free up a lot in wages!)
30 Posted 28/03/2011 at 12:04:23
He wants to play ? I'd be disappointed if he didn't.
31 Posted 28/03/2011 at 12:03:51
In terms of Heitinga's situation, it's hard to see him displacing either Jagielka or Distin who is the obvious choice being left sided. I feel Johnny will be shipped out with Bily, Yakubu, Yobo and possibly Fellaini and Rodwell should there be serious interest during the summer. Expect to see around £30 million of the potential £60 million reinvested in the squad from the sale of that lot.
32 Posted 28/03/2011 at 12:20:05
Another quality player that Moyes has mismanaged.
33 Posted 28/03/2011 at 12:22:20
"Johnny, good news, you're gonna get some first team football..."
34 Posted 28/03/2011 at 12:24:01
He seriously over-rates himself. He thinks he is in the top ten list of centre-halves for the world?
Do me a favour and do one, you shithouse!
35 Posted 28/03/2011 at 12:15:35
He has basically moaned since the day he walked through the door at Goodison and signed his 4½-year deal with £60k- a-week wages.
People might say Phil Neville is a miserable sod but he's got a good excuse, he's related to the alien that is Gary Neville!
I would say that 7 out 10 blues would prefer a Distin/Jags pairing anyway.
As has been stated elsewhere, when we originally signed him, it was as a utility player because, as we all know, that is the type of player Moyes likes.
I agree that the Germans or Dutch would probably give us nearly double what we paid out so it's a no-brainer really. Also, we could offer Fellaini an extra £35k a week with the money we'd save on Johnny boy's wages.
36 Posted 28/03/2011 at 12:36:35
Depressing days at Everton. Heitinga is without question one of the best players in the world in his POSITION!
37 Posted 28/03/2011 at 13:04:11
Interesting comment about DM though, re his never explaining his selection decisions.
38 Posted 28/03/2011 at 13:12:48
Really? In my opinion, I could name off the top off my head at least 10 better central defenders in world football
39 Posted 28/03/2011 at 13:17:18
The other thing British supporters can't get over is height. Central defenders have to be these tall figures. Carlos Puyol has been the leader of Barcelona for years and is well under 6 ft tall. Baines isn't that tall but wins plenty of headers. You're stuck in the past. So many of the best strikers in the game these days aren't tall overpowering forwards of the 70s and 80s. They're the quick, skillful, time their run perfectly type of forward.
Defending is about positioning and timing, and Heitinga proved to be excellent at that last season and all the way through the World Cup against the best in the world. If he was so poor, Holland's defense would have been exploited by the best players the world has to offer. But he wasn't.
40 Posted 28/03/2011 at 13:36:46
10 min: WHAT A GOAL!!! Holland 0-1 Brazil. This was nearly as simple as Germany's first against England the other day, only in a good way. Robinho makes a simple run down the middle, between centre-backs who are 100 miles apart from each other. He's found by a straight, low pass from Felipe Melo in the centre circle; the striker runs alongside the ball and strokes a shot straight into the bottom right corner. That's deliciously effective from Brazil. That's terrible defending by the Dutch, though.
If you remember the goal, Heitinga had abandoned his position, leaving a massive gap for the simplest goal ever. A mistake made simply because he's not a great centre-back. It might just be one mistake, but people constantly bring out this argument that "he got to the World Cup Final so he must be amazing", and it's simply not the case.
And yes, there have been defenders who lack height and have made it at the top, but they have other features that compensate. Cannavaro isn't tall but he was always fast as lightning and had a desire and reading of the game second to none. Heitinga doesn't have the pace, doesn't have the commitment in the tackle (as shown on several occasions), and doesn't have the physical presence. Also, the foreign game is very different. I can't think of many examples of smaller centre-backs being successful in England.
41 Posted 28/03/2011 at 13:35:03
He had a good four months last season after he started shite since he has been with us and thinks he is some world beater because he played in a World Cup Final. I watch him every week and he is a fraud and cannot be good for squad morale either mouthing his shite week-in, week-out.
42 Posted 28/03/2011 at 13:38:20
I can blame him, Andy.
He is not as good as he thinks he is, and playing in a World Cup Final does not automatically make him a great player.
He has made some terrible howlers this season ? the mistake vs Blackpool where he went into a tackle like he was challenging a paper bag, lacked total conviction, and directly led to a goal, was downright embarrassing. He makes far too many mistakes in general, cannot tackle without getting booked, and crucially, has far too high opinion of himself.
His constant speaking out to the media, crowing about 'big clubs' supposedly interested in him is embarrassing, and cannot be good for team spirit ? nor can his refusal to play in a particular position for Everton, which I find an absolute disgrace and makes him the complete opposite of a 'team player'. His challenging of the managers' methods also is very poor too.
He is being left out because of Jagielka (an England international who Arsenal made a £15m bid for last summer that was confirmed, as opposed to Heitinga's fictional 'big club' interest ? not one club enquired about him in January). Distin has also had a pretty good season too, and the Distin-Jagielka partnership is solid. He really needs to be shown the door, and for the club to use the money he generates for other players in the summer.
As a footnote, I recall him leaving Athletico Madrid to join us in the summer of 2009 under a dark cloud ? he left Madrid after complaining he was being played out of position too. So he clearly has form in the 'excuse-making' ranks.
43 Posted 28/03/2011 at 13:50:44
The way he came back from the World Cup final, all balls and bluster, his daft 50-yard passes, that hardly ever came off.
Can't wait to see the back of him, Shithouse that costs us goals.
44 Posted 28/03/2011 at 13:41:57
He played against the very best in the World Cup (saw off Brazil) and only really looked stretched against the winners. (nb: Remember England's big predictable puddin' central defenders against Germany? Fuck me, dragged all over the show and lucky imo not to concede 8...)
I also agree with Max Main that if, instead of saying what is on his mind, like a grown-up (the Dutch way apparently), he was instead slyly doing all his talking behind everyone's back, or getting his agent to create waves, when/if he DID move, loads would be giving it "the fuckin' sneaky shifty twat etc blah".
45 Posted 28/03/2011 at 14:16:14
I like Johnny, and football needs more people like him. All these pros nowadays with nothing to say, no personality, scared of upsetting everyone ? it's bullshit.
I'd love Johnny to play every game and I can't understand why Moyes doesn't play him more often. He's actually a whole lot better than Distin, though the big French wardrobe has been pretty good this season to his credit.
Leave the guy alone and let him speak his mind, I say. If you prefer agents and the media to do the talking, then good luck to you.
46 Posted 28/03/2011 at 14:25:38
I have read articles in the Liverpool Echo that suggests selling either Rodwell or Fellaini in order to buy a new striker and a Pienaar replacement. I agree that we should sell one or two players, but I would sell the ones who don't fit or the ones who is not in the future plans. I would instead of Rodwell and Fellaini therefore want to sell Heitinga, Anichebe and Yakubu. If they cant get us enough money to at least buy us a new striker, and perhaps a long term Pienaar replacement, then that is poor scouting.
Off the top of my head, I can think of Mohammed Abudalloue (not 100% sure about the exact spelling) "Moa" who is a Norwegian striker / forward and currently plays for Hanover 96. Also Erik Huseklepp could be a great addition, he plays for Bari who are having money problems. Huseklepp has a nose for goals, as do "Moa", plus he can play on both wings and up front as a striker. These two players would come highly recommended from me to David Moyes. Just hope he knows about them already...
47 Posted 28/03/2011 at 14:25:32
We're different people, and his name's slightly cooler.
48 Posted 28/03/2011 at 14:53:00
I am not naive; most players are never loyal... but this clown beats them all ? just wait for his nasty put-down comments when he does leave, belittling our club: will you still sing his praises then?
An average player who thinks he is some world beater taking the piss out of club and manager.
49 Posted 28/03/2011 at 15:47:58
Jagielka can't get into a poor England team. Heitinga starts for Holland, a much better team, and he has played at a much higher level. He is not average, that's idiotic to say.
He hasn't shown a lack of respect for Everton. He says he wants to play, and wants to play in Europe. That's his career ambitions.
People are constantly bitching about Everton's and Moyes's lack of ambition. Then a player comes out and states that's what he wants, and he gets accused of slandering Everton.
So Everton doesn't match his ambition, and that's his fault. Now if it was the other way around, he gave interviews saying he doesn't care about playing in Europe or is fine not playing at all, then that would be a problem.
God forbid he wants to earn his paycheck and play at the highest level, coming off of a World Cup Final. How many other Everton players have that experience????
50 Posted 28/03/2011 at 15:55:01
51 Posted 28/03/2011 at 15:57:38
Hope we get good money for him in the summer (along with that other great tackler....Bily) and his supporters at this club should go the match or get a better pair of specs.
52 Posted 28/03/2011 at 16:01:05
Many an average player has played in World Cup Finals, David, and Heitinga did his in possibly the worst World Cup and worst final, but I am not basing my shouts on this ? it is on his garbage performances this year in an Everton shirt.
53 Posted 28/03/2011 at 16:30:11
Remember that world class striker Stephane Guivarch? He was in the top 24 players in the world in 1998. Oh hang on....
54 Posted 28/03/2011 at 16:47:16
It's our own fans who need to get the chip off their shoulders when it comes to certain players, it's pathetic, especially at the game, where some players get treated like royalty depending on who's flavour of the week, whilst others have the crowd constantly on their back.
55 Posted 28/03/2011 at 16:45:48
There will be no shortage of big clubs vying for Heitinga's signature should he leave us.
56 Posted 28/03/2011 at 17:02:15
Better suited to international football where the build up is slower and the ball tends to stay on the ground. In the best ten centre-backs in the world? Don't make me laugh! He's not even in the ten best I've seen at Everton. Not a patch on Labone, Lescott, Jagielka, Distin, Yobo (at his prime), Gough, Stubbs, Ratcliffe, Watson ? even Mark Higgins before he was injured. There's probably others too...
57 Posted 28/03/2011 at 17:11:14
Good old Johnny, I like him and everything he says. He doesn't hold back (unlike his tackles) and just says what he think. For that he should be applauded.
OK, he isn't the best player in the world, but then nobody at Everton is!
58 Posted 28/03/2011 at 16:59:55
59 Posted 28/03/2011 at 17:10:01
Was it Blackpool or Birmingham at home when faced with a 50-50, with the opposing player coming onto him, he shit out and didn't commit. Do you think that Jags would have pulled out in the same circumstances? Absolutely not.
Heitinga has spurted off to the press at least three times now, whether trying to orchestrate a move to the Trash with Cash (Citeh) or this latest outburst. Fuck him off once and for all, his heart's not in it and we can't afford to carry passengers who think they are better than the rest of the team just because he plays international football for a bunch of cloggers.
60 Posted 28/03/2011 at 18:02:56
61 Posted 28/03/2011 at 18:13:50
I think we are back to the point of asking if David Moyes can handle awkward players. In my view, he can't. Which is why Everton is as good as it will ever get for him.
62 Posted 28/03/2011 at 18:41:53
Just me then.
63 Posted 28/03/2011 at 18:50:32
Sorry, you need to realize what Everton is, and not what it was. Your perception is not Everton's reality to everyone else. In reality, we are a club who hasn't won the league in more than 20 years, not won a cup in nearly 20 years, the second most popular team in our city, and we have no money. That is the reality. Moyes gave us back some respect in the national view, but you still hate him and believe Everton can do better, living in the past. I know perspective is a difficult thing for fans (short for fanatic) to have, but it is really lacking with Evertonians right now.
64 Posted 28/03/2011 at 19:03:49
As for it being a good thing that he's coming out and speaking his mind...... Bullshit!!. Keep your fuckin mouth shut and play where you're told to play for the club who pays you thousands of pounds every week.
If he wants to go in the summer because he can't play where he wants to, let him. Get some decent cash for him and buy someone with a pair of bollocks.
65 Posted 28/03/2011 at 19:31:50
66 Posted 28/03/2011 at 19:39:31
67 Posted 28/03/2011 at 19:41:13
68 Posted 28/03/2011 at 19:55:01
69 Posted 28/03/2011 at 19:43:12
Distin has been solid at the back but he's not going to last for ever and we'll see him decline over the next season if he stays. Let Distin go to Birmingham or wherever and keep Heitinga.
Whatever Moyes may think, the team needs some players dedicated to the one position. Remember when There was a push for Rio to play in midfield? How did that turn out? Badly!!
Try to convince yourself otherwise, Heitinga is a good defender.
70 Posted 28/03/2011 at 19:57:54
71 Posted 28/03/2011 at 19:56:51
Heitinga isn?t amazing but he?s definitely our best option in the right back position, as he is great in helping out the attack. Everton are taking a huge risk if they sign him for the purpose of being a center back, because he?s prone to fouling inside the goal box and giving away unnecessary penalties, obviously why he was moved to right back where he usually plays in the Dutch national team. We still won?t forget losing the Madrid derby at home last year because of his foul.
But now because us match going blues seen how shit he was in certain positions his rightful place is a centre half and all of a sudden he is one of the best in the world!
As for his non-stop press comments, how do you think Moyes feels about this? How do you feel the likes of Osman feels about this given the abuse he has put up with yet will play anywhere and is far a better footballer than this fraud? As I said, four good months in two years, even at centre half he has been shit this season.
72 Posted 28/03/2011 at 20:06:15
73 Posted 28/03/2011 at 20:14:35
74 Posted 28/03/2011 at 20:14:43
75 Posted 28/03/2011 at 20:09:45
I went to see Barca with a few friends the other week: 95,000 and we left early, it was shite, more atmosphere at Tranmere. Nothing beats Everton for me, stupid or not, it's called love and when people treat that love like shit with no respect then they don't deserve ours.
I still think and know we are still big enough and hate people bad-mouthing us, none more so than our own player who has never been what you are describing in your ex-girlfriend shout, even Lescott earned the right to instigate a move ? this fucker has never earned the right.
He got dropped from center defence after his garbage two games away at Bolton and home to Blackpool when his positional sense you so describe was that of a pub player on a Sunday and cost us goals.
76 Posted 28/03/2011 at 20:28:58
77 Posted 28/03/2011 at 19:45:37
When he did get a chance this season at the back, he has failed to impress, and Jags and Distin have done a better job together there. Simples.
78 Posted 28/03/2011 at 20:50:37
Heitinga had a good 2nd half of last season but he certainly was not faultless. Furthermore, there is no way he is one of the best in the world in central defence. As Stuart shows above, there are at least 7 or 8 better central defenders in the Premier League alone.
79 Posted 28/03/2011 at 21:03:37
Stop blaming Moyes (because it suits your agenda), the player's not good enough to command a start and he's proved it regularly enough.
80 Posted 28/03/2011 at 20:21:49
No way is he good enough to dislodge our first choice centre-backs and I for one would be ecstatic if we get in and around what we paid for him in the summer.
81 Posted 28/03/2011 at 23:11:43
They can both piss off and take Rodwell with them (Danny Welbeck in part-ex please) so long as Moyes gets the money to spend and rebuild the team.
82 Posted 28/03/2011 at 23:23:35
The bloke has come through one of the finest football academies in the world, been capped 66 times for the Netherlands, was 2008 Dutch footballer of the year, played in 2 World Cups and 2 European Championships etc etc but is not good enough to get a place in the side.
It's a joke as far as I am concerned and if I was him I would be mouthing off as well and that as I say is from a Blue for more than 50 years.
83 Posted 28/03/2011 at 23:45:51
And I know it's just opinions and everyone's entitled etc blah, but for me the 'giveaway' is the anger in many of the anti-Heitinga posts.
Many aren't going much further than 'fuck off you shit-house'.
Now there's nothing wrong in wanting him gone, but all the 'he's shite' and 'I can think of 47 better than him' stuff just sounds like frustrated nonsense.
84 Posted 28/03/2011 at 23:15:13
He could do not wrong last year. I remember posts raving about how hard Johhny was and how good it was to see him never pull out of 50% chances.
He says what is on his mind and breaks the Everton code of loyalty and suddenly he is a shocking player and should be shipped out at speed.
Rubbish! He hasn't played as well as last year but is that any bloody surprise when he goes from being a starting world class player to sitting on the bench.
I agree with his comments in the main. I will never put a player before the club but he is by far the most well rounded centre back we have. His record speaks for itself and as rightly pointed out by Eugene he easily hanndled some of the best attacks in the world getting to the world cup final.
85 Posted 29/03/2011 at 00:53:01
Heitinga is a right sided player, so technically playing him in Distin's position is effectively playing him "out of position" which kind of negates the point really.
86 Posted 29/03/2011 at 07:51:30
The last time our right back (who is not a right back now, even though we bought him in that position) played in the centre of defence was against Bolton and Blackpool.... cast your minds back, watch the videos, he was single handedly the blame for three of those goals, he was woeful. I remember slating Moyes when I turned up at Goodison for the Blackpool game as he should have been dropped after the previous week's performance.
Since then, we have won three out of our last four league games with a depleted squad, does old big head deserve to be put in? In that time he has come on as a sub against Newcastle and Chelsea in the cup and put us under pressure, giving the ball away on numerous occasions and even against Birmingham when he scored a cracker he was shite.
Yes, he played well for a dozen games last season but me or my match-going mates never creamed over him. Add to that his bullying ego stunt of grabbing the ball off Beckford for the penalty against Huddersfield only to sky it, all adds to a piss-poor season and if you want to make excuses for being played out of position, well shouldn't one of the best players in the world be able to do this without such a fuss? Phil Neville can.
87 Posted 29/03/2011 at 09:41:04
Jagielka usually plays at the left CB role when next to Terry allowing Heitinga to play at the right CB slot.
88 Posted 29/03/2011 at 10:23:11
It's no wonder our clean sheet record is abysmal this season and has been ever since we signed Distin. It's amazing how Moyes doesn't pick up on this and never ever drops Distin, surely worth a try as we never keep a clean sheet?
All this talk about player of the season? There's only been about 4 players to pick from who haven't been injured,; Howard, Distin, Baines and Coleman and people would seriously pick Distin over Baines and Coleman after their contributions?
89 Posted 29/03/2011 at 12:19:15
Talk about watching the same game but seeing something completely different.
In my opinion, Distin has had two below par games this season and, except for Baines, has been our most consistent performer throughout this season.
I was reading Snodin's article in the Echo today regarding Heitinga and found myself agreeing with every word.
90 Posted 29/03/2011 at 13:03:03
He fell out with the hierarchy at Athletico and did not adapt to the Spanish game at all, but I still was excited that we could come in for someone of his calibre.
Since being at Everton, he has looked second rate and at times off the pace of the game. People say he has a winner's attitude, but he has no team mentality and, because of that, surely, has no part in our team ethos.
If Moyes said to Cahill, "I want you to play left back for the rest of the season," he would do it and give it his all. If Moyes came out and said, "Johnny is the best right back at the club and that is where I want to play him," the guy would say no!
I don't mind players trying to sell themselves, but when they do it at the downfall of the team, they can jog on!
91 Posted 29/03/2011 at 13:38:23
If there were no other reasons for excluding him (and there are plenty!), surely that would be enough. He's too lacking in aerial presence for the PL. Compare him with Jags who is not the tallest and see how Jags wins the majority of his heading duels. Heitinga is piss poor by comparison.
92 Posted 29/03/2011 at 13:36:35
Did you go the Wolves game when he shit out of a tackle on Henry and they went on to score?
Did you go the Huddersfield game when the ego grabbed the ball off Beckford a lad who needed goals but Heitinga wanted the glory and hoofed it sky high.
Newcastle, Chelsea away he came on and constantly put us under pressure with his wayward passing and many a blue in the ground watching voiced their opinions; he has been shite this season, full stop.
93 Posted 29/03/2011 at 13:44:34
Duffy looked class in both the games that I saw. Unless Moyes decides to offload him to Burnley, which would be a disaster in my opinion, I'd be looking for him to take over from Distin.
94 Posted 29/03/2011 at 14:27:01
As for all this nonsense about Heitinga costing us goal, I can only remember the much vaunted two "shit-out" tackles. But at least he doesn't put them in the back of the bloody net like Jags does.
Don't get me wrong, I like Jags: he's king of the last-ditch tackles. But football is a blend and we are desperately short on people with technical ability. No other defender at the club can spot a pass as quickly and accurately send it that way.
Unfortunately this level of culture seems to be lost on both DM and the fans. Sad really. We all talk about pushing for a European place and competing with the likes of Tottenham but we would rather have 11 hard tackling hoof-it-and-hope badge-kissing bravehearts in the team than any successful ambitious "big-heads".
95 Posted 29/03/2011 at 15:11:23
96 Posted 29/03/2011 at 15:27:28
97 Posted 29/03/2011 at 15:07:56
Can any of you MATCH GOING blues tell me how many clean sheets Jag/Distin have kept this season?
98 Posted 29/03/2011 at 15:39:50
99 Posted 29/03/2011 at 15:36:34
Why will that automatically tell you that we need new central defenders?
100 Posted 29/03/2011 at 15:49:56
Only in England is technical ability given so little preference, or in some cases even treated with mistrust. And fans and the media wonder why we get passed off the park in every international tournament, when our league is littered with yard dogs, there because they are committed.
101 Posted 29/03/2011 at 16:07:34
As a club, surely this would be the sort of footballer we would want on our books, even if it just assists our profile in European football to have international footballers in our squad.
If he is sold then what are we going to bring in? We won't have the money to bring in another international class centre half so will be hoping on young lads who may or may be not up to it. Failing this it will be some big lump from the Championship.
Don't get me wrong, I can't condone any lack of commitment on the pitch but surely they've all let us down this season when it comes to having a go. If we're trying to build a squad for the future then we need our better players to stay.
102 Posted 29/03/2011 at 16:27:38
Since then, after getting Jags and Distin back together, we drew at Chelsea and won our last three league games with the Reading debacle in-between... so, on form, they deserve to be picked ahead of him.
As for this accident waiting to happen, Distin has played every game now with barely an accident since Utd at home.
103 Posted 29/03/2011 at 16:46:12
104 Posted 29/03/2011 at 16:51:19
105 Posted 29/03/2011 at 17:07:55
As for the hoofball quip earlier, alls I have seen this season is us trying too much football at times, albeit crab-type shite, and the only badge kissing phoney we have is Heitinga when he gives his Gravesen-like gestures every so often.
I cannot believe the support this man has had when you see the shit Neville and Co receive but I know he will spring a few other knobhead interviews before he leaves, and fuel what a lot of us paying his wages feel.
106 Posted 29/03/2011 at 18:13:38
107 Posted 29/03/2011 at 18:05:09
You say when he came on against Newcastle and Chelsea it put us under constant pressure with his wayward passing? I totally agree! Who's fault is this? Moyes!
That's what happens when you bring a defender on in midfield and have no-one who is comfortable in retaining possession. Put Distin in midfield and let's see how many times he gives the ball away!
108 Posted 29/03/2011 at 19:00:51
To be honest, I am banging my head against a brick wall and everyone is entitled to theIr opinion on his playing displays, but how anyone can defend his outburst and put downs every other month, from City wanting him to Bayern, to his Barca shout, to telling the manager he won't play in one of the positions if not the main one he bought him for, to me is just not on and that's it for me.
109 Posted 29/03/2011 at 19:22:26
110 Posted 29/03/2011 at 19:13:27
Because that tells me a lot about how successful they are as a centre-back pairing, IMO they leak goals and, despite putting in individually sound performances, they do not work together.
I'm not certain that Heitinga would work with either but I thought we looked a bit more solid last season with the Heitinga/Distin pairing, we also played better football from the back.
Paul, I'm a season ticket holder in the Gwladys Street mate, seat 80, row EE ? feel free to come and speak to me if you like. I also go the majority of aways and European games when they come up, I've also played centre-back to a decent standard myself, so I feel I'm equipped to judge, if that's okay with you?
Judging by some of your comments you've obviously got an obstructed view.
Go and have a look at Jagielka's passing when he was in midfield before you single out Heitinga for poor passing.
111 Posted 29/03/2011 at 19:32:39
A player with a bit of character and his own voice, and gets slated for showing it.
A team full of Hibberts and Artetas will never win anything.
112 Posted 29/03/2011 at 19:40:25
113 Posted 29/03/2011 at 19:53:15
114 Posted 29/03/2011 at 20:07:25
I agree that he's been poor this season, I wouldn't expect any different from any player moved from pillar to post and playing one week then out the next.
It's odd that he played CB for most of last season, was close to being Player of the Year for many, got to the World Cup Final (the equivalent of the Carling Cup if you believe some of the nonsense written on here) then never got a look in. And some people wonder why he's mouthing off, even though IMO he's never said anything disrespectful to Everton.
115 Posted 29/03/2011 at 21:01:41
With regards to not being disrespectful, bleating on about Man City was when he was playing every week for us, do you honestly think that`s right?
The Barca shout and Bayern were also wrong, no matter how big a club they are, you keep it in house to yourself, to thousands of blues we are the biggest and the best even though it`s not true.
And telling your manager you won't play right back when he actually bought you for this position is too.
It is a matter of opinions and I won't change mine and you won't change yours, but there will be more to come from Hetinga without a shadow of doubt.
116 Posted 29/03/2011 at 21:15:11
I don't think that's necessarily the case. For a lot of supporters it is purely the simple fact that he's been consistently shite all season that has shaped their negative views of his abilities. David Thomas mentioned Ian Snodin's article in the Echo earlier, and for a guy who used to sport a horrendous hillbilly mullet & muzzy combo (Snodin I mean, not David!), he sums up the situation quite nicely:
"The problem he has got is that Phil Jagielka and Sylvain Distin are clearly the most reliable central defensive pairing at the club so the chances of him nailing down a starting place in either of those positions seems remote too.
Maybe that?s why he is giving interviews like this, to advertise his talents to other clubs across Europe.
Because if he was to move on this summer I couldn?t see any other club in the Premier League making a move for him. His talents are better suited for the continental game."
117 Posted 29/03/2011 at 23:30:10
118 Posted 29/03/2011 at 23:48:48
Not altogether true, Stephen. He is getting slated because his performances this season have been half-hearted and his tackling non-existent. A few sly kicks and a Cashley Cole shoulder barge do not a great season make.
If he had been playing well and was still being dropped then he would not be getting the abuse he is getting now.
His head has expanded too much after being in a World Cup Final and his ego is too big for his own good now. This is backed up by his ridiculous statement about being in the top 10 best centre-halves in the world. I'm all for self-confidence but this just makes him sound like... well like a bit of a tit really.
119 Posted 29/03/2011 at 23:40:39
120 Posted 30/03/2011 at 06:04:16
For a start, where are we going to get a top quality striker from, that can hack it in the Prem and get us the goals for less than £5 mill? And, added to this, you also say we need to get a Pienaar replacement.. the fact is you're not going to get one player in either position with any spare change. Remember, we need to add quality rather than a journeyman.
The only real way we are going to get either one or both types of player is if we sell either Rodwell or Fellaini or both, and there is absolutely no guarantee we'd even get what we are looking for anyway... added to the fact, if we only sold the Yak and Anichebe, you can bet that money would be used to pay back the debts.
121 Posted 30/03/2011 at 06:10:30
The man falls asleep on the pitch, his only passing ability is either straight into the crowd or hoof it anywhere, and his defending... even Hibbo can out-defend him ? and that is saying something.
I think the only reason Moyes bought him in the first place was to give the defense some sort of tougher edge.
I agree though, he does make himself out to be a tit in the media. This season he has been a real poor player.
What I don't comprehend, is why play him in midfield where he can't play? It's just ludicrous decision-making to say the least. That to me is complete mismanagement of the highest order... shoving someone repeatedly into a position he is incapable of playing in.
He voices his concern and says, "Look, I can't play there, you know it, I know, and the fans know it, so why keep forcing me to play in a position I can't?"
You can't take a square peg and force into a round hole. Some players can excel in a number of positions, some can't, obviously the Heit is of the latter type. It's like asking a defender with two left feet to become a striker, he isn't going to get you many if any at all, and I believe in this case, your leaving a hole in the middle of the park by having a non-midfielder there.
I believe that's where Moyes has made the mistake... either by versatile players who can play anywhere or don't bother.
122 Posted 30/03/2011 at 06:21:18
123 Posted 30/03/2011 at 06:44:26
It's true that he's pulled out of a few and was weak in a few others, but I wouldn't say he was half hearted, I watched him chase a ball from one end of the pitch to the other against Fulham when were getting battered to allieviate the pressure on a struggling defence.
He's been inconsistently managed and has performed as such.
124 Posted 30/03/2011 at 08:52:33
When averaged out I bet if you check the number of clean sheets the team has had when Heitinga is playing in defence this season, it would be about the same as when Jags & Distin are playing.
125 Posted 30/03/2011 at 08:52:05
126 Posted 30/03/2011 at 10:24:05
127 Posted 30/03/2011 at 10:41:14
It probably is but Jag/Distin have had a lot more time to build their partnership. This in my eyes means they should perform better, together they don't work, it's obvious.
I'd like to see if Jonny and Jag/Distin would be a better pairing. I think at the very least the football we play would improve.
If it works out that Jonny with A N Other doesn't work then we can safely assume we need to build a new centre-back partnership, hopefully complemented by a more commanding goalie.
128 Posted 30/03/2011 at 10:57:09
Stephen, No 123, you must have been watching him for a while then, as he made Giggs look like Ben Johnson (on steds) at Goodison.
129 Posted 30/03/2011 at 11:50:40
130 Posted 30/03/2011 at 11:45:16
Just off the top of my head:
131 Posted 30/03/2011 at 12:32:25
132 Posted 30/03/2011 at 12:31:11
Then there's Dawson, King and Woodgate.
Let's face it, any of them could have played for Holland with the class JH had in front of him and ? if Van Marwijk had any confidence in the fitness of Kalid Boulahrouz ? "hard man" Johnny could have spent the World Cup warming the bench...
133 Posted 30/03/2011 at 13:48:51
He's everything that was wrong with that pathetic England squad at the World Cup! A slow oaf, who could only get away with making a career at CH in England.
The others I'll give you, but I would even say that no-technique bum is the best at Anfield.
134 Posted 30/03/2011 at 15:19:15
The press love Johnny because he says it like it is. They know they'll get some good soundbites out of him and then they can skew them however they like to fit their current agenda.
We're all too connected to the club and so can't see the bigger picture but I have no problem with an honest player who sees a move to a 'bigger' club in the future as motivation. I also have no problem with a player thinking they are the best player in the world. Whether he is or not is a different question but don't expect to get an unbiased view from a winner like Heitinga.
When we do come to sell him we'll get good money for him so what's the problem? I certainly don't see him sulking and not giving 100%
Heitinga = good player. End of.
135 Posted 30/03/2011 at 16:37:09
136 Posted 30/03/2011 at 17:39:55
I can't stand the bloke but, if I was a betting man, I would put my money on him making a last-ditch saving tackle rather than Heitinga.
137 Posted 30/03/2011 at 18:42:46
138 Posted 30/03/2011 at 19:36:28
Actually, I look back with some nostalgia to the days of the terrifying Sergeant Major manager. Harry Catterick springs to mind. However, these days the players have the power and, sadly, we must accept that.
Today, an arm-around-the-shoulder sort of guy is needed and DM just isn't that. Heitinga would thrive under Wenger. Ferguson, Moyes and the managers who played under Ferguson are the last of a dying breed.
139 Posted 30/03/2011 at 20:40:56
I think we will have to agree to disagree.
In my opinion, Carragher is not at the same level as the other players on that list I posted earlier, and Heitinga certainly is not.
140 Posted 30/03/2011 at 20:49:49
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