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Club vs Country

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Does anybody else find it strange that five players are released from the England squad before the friendly against Ghana this week? - And surprisingly all five from three of the currently placed top five clubs.... The players released are Lampard, Cole, Terry, Dawson, and Rooney.

So, the game against Ghana isn't important ? because England do not need their 'best' players, time therefore to try out a 'new squad'. In addition, this means of course that these five players will be fresh for their matches next weekend in the Premier League, whereas the other players will be a little less in form due to the midweek exertions.

I cannot say that I am entirely surprised to be honest ? but I am slightly surprised that the FA would allow such bollocks ? this suggests A) that the fixture is irrelevant, which calls into question the fixture setting anyway, and B) that some players in the squad are more valuable than others ? which risks making the players such as Jagielka feel that they are second string ? hardly a way to engender team spirit and confidence in the squad (yes I know he played for all of 2 minutes the last match).

Time the FA actually did something for which they are paid a fortune ? stop players leaving the squad early ? unless they are injured, and stop bloody arranging bullshit matches.

Rupert Sullivan, Paris     Posted 28/03/2011 at 11:01:39

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Michael Kenrick
1   Posted 28/03/2011 at 14:18:29

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The 'official' reason is far, far worse, Rupert.

On 606 yesterday, they said it was because these players were involved in CHAMPIONS LEAGUE MATCHES... not next weekend but the FOLLOWING WEEK!!!

SAF, and friends just have to murmour "Euro Super League" under their breath and they get anything they want. Football is becoming a sickening joke.
James Marshall
2   Posted 28/03/2011 at 14:29:25

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Euro Super League? What do you think the Champions league already is!?

Don't be fooled by marketing, we've had a Euro Super League for years.
Tom Mallows
3   Posted 28/03/2011 at 14:35:37

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To be fair to Capello, he has only released players who played on Saturday and who will play in the Champions League next week ?Aaron Lennon is still there for example. He is also going to make changes for the Ghana game so most players will only start one out of the two games.

It is all a political game to try and please the PL bosses. Funny how the press have taken it the other way though and slagged Capello off for 'cheapening' the friendly. He can't win!

Liam Reilly
4   Posted 28/03/2011 at 15:44:18

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Should've been advertised as a 'B' game with reduced ticket prices. Although that was never likely to happen, not with the new Wembley to pay for.

Stinks, but can't remember the last time two Everton players started a game for England.
Brian Denton
5   Posted 28/03/2011 at 15:58:09

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James #2 ? no there isn't a Euro Super League. It would be a damn sight better for football in this country if there were. Let the usual suspects fuck off to the Super League, play each other every week in front of empty stadiums AND NEVER LET THE FUCKERS BACK!!!
Trevor Lynes
6   Posted 28/03/2011 at 16:30:21

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Personally for very selfish reasons, I just hope that Baines and Jags come back without injury.....we have no cover for Baines at all!!!!!
Adam Bennett
7   Posted 28/03/2011 at 16:38:50

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It?ll be interesting come the summer when England?s Under-21s take part in the European Championships. Witshere, Carroll, Walcott are all eligible. Stuart Pearce has already said he?s going to take his strongest possible squad, and Fabio Capello has backed him up. Cue Wenger and Dalglish having a moan.

It?s a great opportunity for the English youngsters to get experience of international tournament football, which will hopefully stand them in good stead when going to Euros and World Cups with the ?big team?.

I remember watching Germany U21 beating England U21 4-0 in the final of the 2009 tournament, thinking, my god those two German players are amazing. Didn?t give it another thought... until, one year later, Ozil and Mueller are running our ?big team? ragged, smashing four past us in Bloemfontein at the World Cup!

The Under-21s have got a chance of winning this tournament if Pearce is allowed to pick who he wants, and the players have a great opportunity to gain valuable experience. I just hope the Premier League managers don?t end up dictating what squad Stuart Pearce is allowed to take, and ruin a wonderful opportunity for those younger players.
James Marshall
8   Posted 28/03/2011 at 17:08:41

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I totally disagree with that. The Champions League IS the Euro Super League ? it's just dressed-up as an occasional European suare for the top teams. If we were in it, you wouldn't complain one bit!
Richard Dodd
9   Posted 28/03/2011 at 17:21:48

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To be a liitle mischievous, Trevor, if Baines IS injured, it will give Davey the opportunity to play Johnny Boy at LEFT back as he hasn`t mentioned refusing to play there!
Jay Harris
10   Posted 28/03/2011 at 17:33:03

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are YOU questioning the integrity of the Goodison Hierarchy?

My God where's the tablets?
Gavin Ramejkis
11   Posted 28/03/2011 at 17:42:55

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Pointless game for a pointless team, we should withdraw our players as EPL status means more than any Engerland game and I can't remember them ever paying out for Vaughan's injury ? or Ross Barkley's, fuck em.
Eugene Ruane
12   Posted 28/03/2011 at 17:48:35

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Totally agree Gavin.

I mean all those managers with teams who could still go down, or could (mathematically), qualify for Europa (ie: Moyes!) could argue that their next PL game is just as important to their club as the CL is to Chelsea, Utd etc.

Why don't they?

Seriously, why should certain teams and/or certain competitions be given special treatment?

Maybe they think that everyone in England supports English teams in Europe (fuck me, how far wide of the mark would THAT be!?)

The only football match of ANY interest to me in the next 7 days is our Villa game and I can't see any justifiable reason why Utd/Chelsea can protect their players, while we put ours at risk.

With our injuries, Everton (imo) should have been all over this and pulled the players saying we have a chance at Europa (or 'we're not safe yet' - take your pick) and then if the FA wanted to make an issue of it, fine - at least force them to explain why certain teams get preferential treatment.

Jeremy Benson
13   Posted 28/03/2011 at 18:45:05

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I don't see what all the fuss is about?

Breaking news: "International team rests star players for meaningless friendly."
Jamie Barlow
14   Posted 28/03/2011 at 19:32:30

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Eugene, I don't think it's in Moyes's nature to pull players out of International games. He can see how much it means to them. I agree with what you say though and just hope they come back in one piece.
Gavin Ramejkis
15   Posted 28/03/2011 at 19:48:30

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Jamie, Moyes has form for playing that card, ask Joseph Yobo about it.
Martin Handley
16   Posted 28/03/2011 at 20:42:58

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Quite right, Gavin mate, that was the start of Yobo's demise at Everton.

I would've pulled Jags&Bainsey straight out of the game tomorrow. Plus they must be thinking "I wasn't thought good enough to play against the Welsh, but you don't mind me getting the shit kicked out of me by Ghana. Yeah right, fuck off, Cappello, I'm Irish now!"

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
17   Posted 28/03/2011 at 21:37:29

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James Marshall (#2 & #8) ? for the sake of clear communication, if nothing else, the sometime mooted 'Euro Super League' referred to in this context would be comprised of Europe's top teams leaving their respective national leagues/associations (and Uefa?), becoming a self-governing group (G14, G18?), and playing a closed league roster with each other, probably excluding all others.

That bears no relation whatsoever to the current Uefa Champions League, so please stop with the silly statements. Yes, the Champions League currently panders to the needs of the big clubs ? but it is NOT this Euro Super League of which we speak.

ps: If you're gonna use fancy words like "saure" [WTF?], it usually carries much greater impact if you can actually spell them correctly.

Brian Denton
18   Posted 28/03/2011 at 21:56:14

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Accurate summary Michael. I don't think James will be inviting you to any of his soirees in the near future...!
Jamie Crowley
19   Posted 28/03/2011 at 22:45:49

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Why do you always say "Engerland"?

Naive regards...
Eugene Ruane
20   Posted 28/03/2011 at 23:12:31

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Who's soiree now?

(apologies, gag Tourettes, it's a real illness..probably).
Sean McCarthy
21   Posted 28/03/2011 at 23:14:18

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Oh how I sniggered at the reaction to the Welsh booing of God Save The Queen!! England fans have booed EVERY opposition anthem for years without a word being spoken or written about it. Pots and kettles spring to mind!!

As for certain clubs being given preferential treatment by the FA. Well tell me something new!!
Rob Keys
22   Posted 29/03/2011 at 01:12:53

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Ever thought what the players might think? The views are legit, but all from a fan's point of view. Players might really want the chance to impress the England manager.

Yes, meaningless friendly, some of you will say. But it gives the players time to be watched and observed by the manager. Of course, many fans (and it seems Everton fans by a large margin) claim that they can't give two hoots about the national team.

Gavin Ramejkis
23   Posted 29/03/2011 at 07:38:15

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Jamie (#19), it's a throwback to the stereotypical knuckle draggers that support that team ? you know the type: Union Jack shorts, chavs with car flags, smash fuck out of towns and cities after yet another loss.

Try this one yourself, next time they play an international or in a meaningful tournament, don't bother watching the game but right after it's finished and they lose if you live near a main road listen out for the guaranteed Police car and/or van racing past running blues and twos as somewhere nearby a group of said knobheads will be smashing fuck out of each other, someone's property, or some innocent passers by.

Andrew Laird
24   Posted 29/03/2011 at 08:27:38

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If Cappelo cannot see what a player is like after watching them in numerous games in the Premier League and then for however long in training, what's the point in trying to impress him in a pointless friendly?

He has favourites, Gareth Barry will be captain. If Cappelo had been watching football properly he would've seen that Scott Parker is twice the player and has been for at least the last 3 years.

To be honest, I could not care less about the England national team as most are the type of deplorable scumbags that I despise in the modern game.
Kevin Davies
25   Posted 29/03/2011 at 09:08:13

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Martin@16 , "cottage burners"!!!! Cheeky twat!!!!
Kevin Davies
26   Posted 29/03/2011 at 10:47:56

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Implying that, if you are Welsh, you are a "cottage burner" because a very small number of Welsh extremists carried out some arson attacks many years ago, is akin to saying that every Evertonian is a racist, just because a few idiots at the games decide to chant racist songs!!!
Alex Kociuba
27   Posted 29/03/2011 at 14:40:12

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Speaking of Scott Parker, I wonder why he isn't allowed to leave the squad early with the others so he can help West Ham with their relegation fight?
Ian Campbell
28   Posted 29/03/2011 at 15:34:56

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Alex I agree that the players shouldn't be released but Scott Parker has no additional matches other than the 8 league games left in the season compared to say United who could have as many as 15 games if they get to CL and FA Cup final
Martin Handley
29   Posted 29/03/2011 at 15:43:44

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Sorry for any offence guys, I'm part Welsh myself.
Ian Campbell
30   Posted 29/03/2011 at 15:38:00

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Gavin # 11 and after ? a manager just cant withdraw their players on a whim... If Moyes suggested that his players were injured, he would obviously need the backing of Jagielka and Baines (very unlikely they'd agree) to do so plus would still need to release the players for a fitness assessment as required which is what Capello did with Ledley King a while back before agreeing that he was unfit.

As a fan that follows both Everton and England abroad including World Cup 2010 (unfortunately) you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, there are problem elements but I've seen some elements which have been just as bad at Everton ? late teens spitting on black stewards at Chelsea Carling Cup semi-final for example.

Also, how do you know about compensation regarding Barkely and Vaughan, do Everton and the English FA consult you on such matters?
Tom Bowers
31   Posted 29/03/2011 at 16:34:40

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To the club managers, it's an occupational hazard for players to play internationals during the regular season and even more so at this crucial stage of the season. Certainly the meaningless friendlies at all international levels should never be played at this time and the morons who run football are to blame for that.

Already we many players very doubtful for the league games at the weekend and some more than others will pay the penalty. Hopefully Jags and Baines come through unscathed today but I'm sure Capello is sucking up to the bigger clubs by releasing their players.

Gavin Ramejkis
32   Posted 29/03/2011 at 17:34:01

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Ian, Engerland are notorious as far as International fans go, you hint at a minority but I can count plenty of occasions where said fans show their true colours as complete knob-ends. As far as compensation goes for injured on meaningless "duty" for the national failures, how many occasions have you heard bigger clubs incensed about injury and do you actually remember Dean Ashton?

His career was ended thanks to a tackle by Shaun Wright-Phillips but his club's insurance was null and void as he wasn't "working" for them at the time and his only recourse was to raise a claim off his own bat against Chelsea (SWP's employers at the time) or the FA. So I guess your smartarse remark on the FA consulting me goes down with the lead balloon of your attempted snide remark.

If a club has valuable assets at risk, they have every right to seek recourse if those assets are damaged or broken, I can't remember once reading that the FA's medical staff were treating Vaughan or Barkley after their injuries.

Ian Campbell
33   Posted 29/03/2011 at 18:11:10

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A notorious reputation that has diminished through the years. Obviously the police bans have had some success in preventing a lot of trouble makers traveling but do you travel with england, if not your remarks are just hearsay!

No smartarse or snide remarks just highlighting that you dont really know what you're talking about. If Everton, West Ham (insert club here) want to pursue legal action then surely they can but international football benefits the clubs too ? star power, marketability and transfer values all increase on the back of World Cups and Euro Championships and scouts from all clubs watch youth events also.

Plus why would any business (National Associations) simply offer money up ? it makes no sense. Both clubs and countries are subject to the rules of FIFA ? if they want to break away they can ? clubs did receive $40mil from FIFA for players released for the 2010 World Cup and $70mil has been allocated for 2014.

International football is a hazard but if laws come in regarding this then countries like Ivory Coast could never field a Drogba/Yaya Toure if they have to compensate Chelsea or Man City for injuries!

I'm not pretending to be the expert but you are making claims that actually you have no/very little knowledge of!

Trevor Lynes
34   Posted 29/03/2011 at 18:34:25

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I well remember the local papers in Pontyblodwyn being full of the derring deeds of a farm hand who had trained a wonky donkey from Ponciaou to attack cars with English flags......
Jamie Barlow
35   Posted 29/03/2011 at 18:58:46

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Gavin, I don't know Joseph. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Yobo refuse to play for Everton because of injury and then go off to play for Nigeria?
Eugene Ruane
36   Posted 29/03/2011 at 19:20:51

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Ian Campbell, you say...

"Gavin # 11 and after - a manager just cant withdraw their players on a whim... If Moyes suggested that his players were injured he would obviously need the backing of Jagielka and Baines (very unlikely they'd agree) to do so plus would still need to release the players for a fitness assessment as required".

I didn't suggest Moyes withdraw the players 'on a whim' (ie, for no reason).

Nor did I suggest he pretend they're injured.

I DID suggest he (nb: their employer) should pull them out because they MIGHT get injured and we have important (nb: TO US!) games coming up.

In other words, extend to himself the courtesy that the FA have extended to Utd, Chelsea etc.

And if the FA have a problem with that, let's at least force them to show/say they actually HAVE given preferential treatment to the 'top' teams.
Ian Campbell
37   Posted 29/03/2011 at 19:57:31

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If Moyes pulls them out then they could very well be banned from our upcoming prem league games. Plus seeing as Jagielka and Baines will clearly want to play and Moyes is often championing their cause then it wouldn't be a smart move would it? The result = Unhappy players banned from playing for Everton.

Argue it whatever way you will, the facts are that some England players may have up to 15 games left this season whereas our players have 8 at the most... Capello can argue whatever he likes and there's nothing that you or anyone else can do that will yield positive results in this situation.

Pointless argument!
Jamie Tulacz
38   Posted 29/03/2011 at 20:12:04

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Going against the flow a little here but I do love to see our boys play for the country. Though obviously with the squad at stretching point wouldn't be ideal to get any injuries.

Good to see Bainesy starting off positively... he seems a lot less nervous than when he started out for England.
Alex Kociuba
39   Posted 29/03/2011 at 20:43:08

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Ian, I'd imagine the main reason for players being sent back is to avoid injury regardless of how many games are left to play in the Premier League. Scott Parker is a lot less replaceable at West Ham than Rooney is at United.
Eugene Ruane
40   Posted 29/03/2011 at 22:05:30

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Ian Cambell, you say..

"If Moyes pulls them out then they could very well be banned from our upcoming prem league games".

Well durrrrr!

The point you're not getting, or choosing NOT to get, is that you don't just pull them and say fuck all.

You raise the subject AT THE TIME.

You ask why it's ok for the 'top' team's players to have the day off.

You ask why the fitness of their players should be protected, but not ours.

You ask why their success/happiness is more important than our's

15 games, 8 games, couldn't give a fuck - because they are 8 EVERTON games and 15 Chelsea/Utd games.

The main thing is you make a noise.

You force the FA to say "We would ban your players if they pull out..but we'll happily allow others to pull out".

One way or another, you MAKE AN ISSUE OF IT.

Or....alternatively, like a dummy, you sit by, say fuck all and make it easier to shaft you next time.

Seriously, you think Fergie would say fuck-all if the roles were reversed?

And by the way, don't give me that smart-arse 'pointless argument' bollocks

The POINT (whether you ignore it or not) is that The FA have extended a courtesy to the 'bigger' clubs that they have not extended to the 'smaller' clubs.

The 'smalle'r clubs, including us, seem to have accepted this without a whimper.

Also the argument obviously has enough of a 'point' for you to have posted THREE times (any advance on three?).

Oh and let's hope Jags isn't missing against Villa with a 'nasty knock'.
Ian Campbell
41   Posted 29/03/2011 at 22:49:17

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Alex, I would suggest it's burnout in prep for the summer Euro 2012 qualifiers in which case players of Chelsea and Utd are far more susceptible.

That's all Capello has to say to justify his decision.
Ian Campbell
42   Posted 29/03/2011 at 22:50:58

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Eugene, you're making an argument when there isn't one!

1) Moyes says he wants our players playing for England.

2) Jagielka and Baines want to play for England.

3) Capello selects them and gives others time off.

Yet Everton should irritate our players and get them banned on some principle that you've established.

Just out of interest, do you feel that Wolves and Blackpool were right to be fined for fielding weakend teams because your argument suggests that managers shouldn't be allowed the freedom to decide what's best for their players!

I honestly think that your suggestion is moronic and clearly all clubs think the same because no-one has followed it.
Jamie Crowley
43   Posted 29/03/2011 at 23:34:00

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Gavin ? Got it.

Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, I live in St Augustine, Florida, USA. So I could listen for sirens, chaos, and sounds of vandalism...

But in my sleepy cul-de-sac over here I'd hear crickets.

But I do appreciate the explanation. And might I add the very vivid picture ? hilarious.

Please don't tell me people actually wear union jack shorts. I thought we were the "Ugly Americans". There really should be some fashion law against that ? because that's not only ugly, it's just out-of-this-=world horrible. Throw in a mullet and a wife-beater T-shirt and I might puke at the sight of it.

John Roberts
44   Posted 30/03/2011 at 05:13:58

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Funny ... don't Premier League clubs get fined for doing this ? ie, playing an understrength team!!
Eugene Ruane
45   Posted 30/03/2011 at 08:29:56

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Ian Campbell, I'll tell you what IS 'moronic' - responding to posts that exist only in your head.

You have certainly haven't responded to anything I have written.

You say..

"Yet Everton should irritate our players and get them banned on some principle that you've established".

Fact: I've 'established' fuck all.

Fact: This week FA HAVE established a precedent that discriminates against Everton FC and I have commented on it.

(nb: nothing to do with anything I've 'established', everything to do with what the FA have - get it?)

If you can't grasp that by now and (as appears the case) are just going to keep repeating some shite about not upsetting Baines and Jagielka, I'm done, you win, huzzah for you!
Ian Campbell
46   Posted 30/03/2011 at 14:12:24

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Eugene, how has Capello set a precedent that discrimates against Everton, please elaborate?

I haven't commented on a number of aspects of your posts because most of it is complete nonsense.

Who wins by following your suggestion? You say that I can't grasp this or get that but your suggestion serves no purpose and is just creating an argument for argument's sake.
Ian Campbell
47   Posted 30/03/2011 at 14:17:18

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John Roberts, not in friendlies they don't!
Eugene Ruane
48   Posted 30/03/2011 at 15:59:22

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Ian Campbell, let me think of the best way to phrase this....erm....

I didn't say Capello, I said...THE FUCKING FA!!!! (see the difference - one argument ACTUALLY exists, the other only exists inside your head)

Here is EXACTLY what I said.

"Fact: This week FA HAVE established a precedent that discriminates against Everton FC and I have commented on it".


Now where the FUCK does it say Capello!?


Seriously, do you know The FA are different from Capello!?

Do you think spoons are Capello?

And as for 'who win's' and 'your suggestion serves no purpose'!?

The logic (nb: a logic that could be understood by a sofa...with learning difficulties) is that Everton win.


By saying to the FA/PL/media/ 'we will not be shit on'.

We will not accept a different set of 'rules'.

We want the EXACT same deal as Man Utd and Chelsea get.

Dead fucking simple to grasp (but as it's you, I look forward to..."What's it got to do with Partizan Belgrade?")

As I said before, read the posts on the thread, not the ones in your incredibly confused head.

By the way, regarding 'you're arguing for argument's sake' - this is the truly desperate cry of someone who has posted SEVEN times

Ian Campbell
49   Posted 30/03/2011 at 18:00:33

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You are a moron!

The FA don't decide on team selection or whether or not players can leave, that decision is up to Capello and what he deems to be the right thing to do.

Jagielka played what 2mins more than Lampard and Cole for example so your argument is basically non existent.

I love the fact that you're critical of me and trying to make out I understand the core issue. The key is that you are a moron and your argument is disjointed at best. I haven't posted 7 times on the same subject I have just risen to the bile that you have posted!

Everton and Utd/Chelsea aren't exactly the same - they have as many as 7 more games (6 for Chelsea I believe) than us and Capello has made a decison about resting them - I would suggest this is to avoid burnout before the summer qualifiers!

Seriously challenge your efforts into something more worthwhile than this - maybe going back to school for example!
Ian Campbell
50   Posted 30/03/2011 at 18:06:43

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... and what the fuck was that about Partizan Belgrade ? are you on smack?

You'd need to have learning difficulties to understandf your point!
Eugene Ruane
51   Posted 30/03/2011 at 21:09:01

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Ian Campbell, what do you mean 'big teeth'?

I didn't even mention sparrows!

The thing about British cars in the 70s is that they WEREN'T made from Smarties.

You're simply arguing for the sake of it.

(See how YOU like it!)
Brian Denton
52   Posted 30/03/2011 at 22:17:29

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Eugene, are you sure your surname isn't Ionesco?

And I never thought I'd get him on to ToffeeWeb.... Next challenge is to incorporate Jackson Pollock, and not as rhyming slang.
James Flynn
53   Posted 31/03/2011 at 00:13:33

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Jamie (#43) ? Did you see Red Sox's minority owners are buying an Italian Serie A Team?

Have to admit, my Steinbrenners aren't understanding the money to be made in European soccer.
Jamie Crowley
54   Posted 31/03/2011 at 02:51:38

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Watching the Sox - Astros on MLB Network as I type....

I didn't see that. I'll check it out later. I'm happy ? just proves their heart is in Boston and Liverpool is simply all about dollars. They're diversifying (sp?) their portfolio.

The Steinbrenners would make a muck of it..... They're about to do so with the Yankees. They've too much money to completely foul it up. But when the old man passed ? who I actually liked ? so did any Yankee hopes of winning a championship. That Steinbrenner son is a complete loon.

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