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It'll be too late at the end of the Season...

Comments (38)

I sat in the Main Stand on Saturday behind the press area; so close enough to be able to see Kenwright's grinning, smug face as he wandered out at half-time yesterday. What he has to be so smug about is beyond me...

On the pitch we had a patched up team doing its best to compete with a much more expensively created side; with a bunch of sixth formers on the bench should we get (more) injuries. Maybe he was smug because, even given the above, at that point, we were winning. However, maybe he was smug because he can't believe he's still sat there at all.

By any stretch of the imagination our current economic position is untenable. However, despite our pauper status, the paucity of the squad's numbers and quality and it's lack of consistency this season, we will still finish in the top ten; but not because of this squad's efforts, but due to the lack of consistency of those team's around us. A more predictable Premier League season would have probably had us in where Villa are now, with visions of relegation battles of the past sitting front of mind.

If only half the rumours are true about both our financial plight and the need to sell, I am convinced perennial relegation fights await us again next year and beyond. The person putting us in this position is Kenwright and an increasing number of supporters agree with this as the fundamental issue (if this and other websites are a reflective straw poll of our views).

The problem however, is ironically exacerbated by our current league position. We will finish in the top ten and Kenwright will be protected by this, as he can then cite any number of reasons for our being unable to fulfill Moyes's pre-season promises. More importantly, once the season is over, it will be much more difficult for supporters to vent their anger and frustration as players are sold with potentially few replacements. Some will also be angry if Moyes leaves (voluntarily or otherwise).

I can't sit at the keyboard and say what can be done about this because there doesn't seem to be anything I can do other than take my frustrations out by banging on said keyboard. But by next season, the transfers and the new squad will be de facto and momentum for change lost for at least another season. Unless a buyer steps forward soon Kenwright will be off the hook... again.
Steve Guy, Harrogate     Posted 04/04/2011 at 13:14:39

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Stephen Kenny
1   Posted 04/04/2011 at 14:20:06

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Up until a few years ago, we had a real assest that could have potentially made us millions and kept the club ticking over and improving.

The asset was David Moyes and his eye for a good player at a low cost.

Moyes's refusal to wheel and deal and Kenwright's reluctance to enforce this way of working, a way that is common for nearly all clubs, means we are where we are.

The Arsenal model is one EFC could have followed.

I think it's a bit late in the day for that now.
Robert Johnson
2   Posted 04/04/2011 at 14:43:11

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Maybe Kenwright was smiling because he had just farted and had wafted it down towards that other true blue, Rocky, who was there incognito.

Whatever the reason was, it still doesn't sort out the problem that nobody wants to buy this club.

And there, my fellow Evertonians lies the problem. We can only piss with the dick we've got.
Karl Meighan
3   Posted 04/04/2011 at 14:38:31

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I can understand what your saying, Steve, and money to buy big-name players has probably never been as important but it's still possible to challenge for honours if managers get things right.

European clubs have produced great teams without having to buy in every player. Porto won the Champions League and Benfica have produced quality teams capable of challenging Europe's best ? all without spending like Man City. Even the great Barcelona although one or two are brought in at a big price produce and pick up lots of quality players.

Seville and Villarreal spend peanuts yet have built teams producing quality football and have had big runs and even won European competitions. Even Mclaren at Enschede produced a team to win the Dutch League and qualify for the Champions League. Yes, it's only the Dutch League but they are in the last eight of the Europa League, further than any English club. Even Fulham who may have a richer chairman reached a European final without breaking the bank.

It may be harder than ever to challenge without a Billionaire but never impossible in a game that is just eleven v eleven. The hope is always there that hard work with youth teams and signings come good that can turn a club's fortunes around. It's no good hoping and waiting for a money man to take control, we just have to keep improving and moving forward.
Tom Mallows
4   Posted 04/04/2011 at 15:01:15

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Maybe he is smug because of the billionaire owners taking over in the summer who will build us a new stadium... No? Ok, perhaps not.....
Ian Campbell
5   Posted 04/04/2011 at 15:01:01

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Stephen Kenny, we can't afford the Arsenal model and never could.

They just signed a young kid from Barcelona after paying him 35 times the salary that Barca offered. I see few similarities between us now or previously. Well before Moyes's time, their budget was well above ours ? Jeffers for example.

The only reasons Moyes was able to be at all active in the market was through the sales of Rooney and later Lescott.
John Gee
6   Posted 04/04/2011 at 15:13:29

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Let me say first that I like Moyes, he's trusted and respected in the game and it's good to have a guy at our club who never gets slagged off in the media, but...

For those anti-Moyes, I'm sure you would see him as the lesser of two evils when compared to Kenwright, he's starting to draw attention in much stronger terms that the board need to cough up. If he goes, the new manager will be, at least initially, a "yes" man. If he stays, we have a guy with influence telling the board to put their incredibly short arms into their incredibly deep pockets. Even if I was against Moyes, I think I'd rather have him in place demanding money.

If Kenwright really cares about the club then he should sell it for a nominal fee of £1 in return for a commitment from the buyer to invest in the team ? like the ex-chairman of Wolves.

Ray Roche
7   Posted 04/04/2011 at 15:29:27

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Karl Meighan

The fact that we qualified for Europe at all is testimony to Moyes capabilities. I doubt if some of the teams you've mentioned would have done that in the EPL. Like a lot of people, I get truly pissed off with some of Moyes's negative tactics (West Ham away for instance) and his baffling substitutions, usually in the last five minutes, but I think we owe that man a debt of gratitude for what he has done for this club on a nett spend of £3m per season.

It was only bad luck, some conspiracy theorists say corruption, that we went out of the CL in the qualifying stages and lost to Fiorentina on penalties. Cut the guy some slack. We'd have been fucked without him.

Ian Campbell
8   Posted 04/04/2011 at 15:36:23

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John Gee I agree 100% if Moyes does go, as part of the interview process, any incoming manager would effectively have to agree to budget constraints and selling off key assets.
Franny Porter
9   Posted 04/04/2011 at 15:42:01

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Can I just say, I hate the term 'EPL'.
Stephen Kenny
10   Posted 04/04/2011 at 16:04:57

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Can I point out the two examples of following the Arsenal method, albeit in slightly less comfortable circumstances that you have mentioned in your post!

Also we have a bit of previous for taking sides best young players!

We could have, if we wanted to followed the way Wenger has set up Arsenal.

No doubt there has been interest in the likes of Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar, Baines, Fellaini, Rodwell and one or two others.

At one point I would have had absolute faith that Moyes would have gone out and found us a younger, equally good player for less than what we sold for, and when that happens the cycle starts again.
Karl Meighan
11   Posted 04/04/2011 at 15:54:08

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RayRoche@7 I think you misunderstand? I'm not slagging Moyes; imo he has earned the right to try and improve both players and squad with the job he has already done.

My point is that, although the Billionaire owner helps and is important in today's game, it's not impossible to build a squad capable of competing with clubs who have better finances.

As a fan, I want and hope the club moves forward and improves regardless of who is in charge or how much money the club has for players.

Things can always be better in football, both on the field and off it; as a fan, that's what I expect, whether were champions or not.
David Booth
12   Posted 04/04/2011 at 16:22:57

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Heavens above, Bill Kenwright is even being criticised for looking cheerful at half-time now.

Perhaps he should pay one of his actor pals to follow him round dressed as the grim reaper?
Ian Campbell
13   Posted 04/04/2011 at 16:18:40

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Stephen I know Wenger sold a few but (I believe) they were much older than the likes of those Everton players you mentioned ? Viera, Henry, Petit etc were past their best.

I think when he sold Anelka and Overmars (even Hleb) that they were pushing for exits and didn't want to stay ?- I can't imagine he wanted to sell them.

The model that Arsenal followed saw them go from double winners to no trophies in 5 years... A similar decline after an Everton re-build could take us to lower mid-table and maybe even a relegation scrap!
Liam Reilly
14   Posted 04/04/2011 at 16:23:02

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John Gee # 6
"If Kenwright really cares about the club then he should sell it for a nominal fee of £1 in return for a commitment from the buyer to invest in the team"

BK doesn't own 51% of the club. His cronies like Philip fucking Green do; a billionaire Tottenham supporter, who couldn't care less, once the sale makes him a sizable profit.

Nothing wrong with that, except his valuation of the club. £100M has been suggested in some quarters and the club will never sell for that.
Stephen Kenny
15   Posted 04/04/2011 at 16:35:01

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Ian, it also took them to a Champions League Final and for all intents and purposes allowed them to build the best stadium in the league.

Their finances were a world away from ours anyway, but now it's a galaxy, a large part of that is Wenger's set-up.

Through that time they have always challenged and I believe their problem is a psychological, rather than abilty based one.

If for instance we had followed that model, or did start tomorrow, would you agree that within 3-6 years we may have cleared or reduced our debt to the point where we could look at redeveloping Goodison off our own back? Or having a decent chunk of money to look at a relocation?

There is no way forward for us financially off the field, we have no room for manouvre whatsoever.
Kevin Jones
16   Posted 04/04/2011 at 16:23:57

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Well Franny, IMO WTF'S wrong with EPL? SWP is shit. LFC Smell and you need to LOL more. EFC are Gr8 but Kenwright is a TWAT. Not an acronym he just is.
Nick Entwistle
17   Posted 04/04/2011 at 16:46:13

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I don't care for the 'a more predictable Premier League' argument, that people still say about 2005, as if we are seperate from everyone else and not subject to the whim of chance.
Rob Murphy
18   Posted 04/04/2011 at 17:32:20

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The lack of consistency of those teams around us saw us punch way above our weight with our league finishes over the last few years as well. Hey it's all relative y'know.
Ian Campbell
19   Posted 04/04/2011 at 17:05:09

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Stephen, we may... but alternatively we may be playing in the Championship and have shelved plans to re-develop Goodison as our average attendance is 27,000.

The Arsenal model works if you find players like Fabregas but there aren't too many of them about, even fewer unknown that are available to a club like Everton.

Both of us lost a cup final though ? no prizes for that!
Ray Roche
20   Posted 04/04/2011 at 18:20:05

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Karl Meighan

Sorry, mate, my mistake.
Marc Williams
21   Posted 04/04/2011 at 18:30:49

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Kenwright looked smug as he was probably off for his half-time verbal
'blow job' from Doddy!
Dan Brierley
22   Posted 04/04/2011 at 19:16:45

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Steve, you are entitled to your view. There have been people saying this season after season for ten years now.

'Mark my words, we are going downhill, the end is nigh, administration on the horizon, all the best players will leave, etc. etc.'

It's horrific that players that have done really well this season such as Felli, Baines, Coleman, Distin are insulted by our own fans, claiming their hard work is only meaningful as those around us were inconsistent! Unbelievable. The bit I find truly amazing, is that people are genuinely unhappy if our team finishes in the top half of the table. They would prefer us to fall apart and end up going down just so they can say 'I told you so'. It's a real sad state of affairs that Kenwright is blamed for Everton's financial state, when the debt we have accumulated has only paid for the squad we have today.

Nobody has got rich out of Everton. Would it really be better if we were sat in the Championship, but without debt? I personally think I Kenwright would be considered a worse chairman, by not scraping together every bit of credit he can to invest into the team, and keep us in the top division.

Yes, we are treading water financially, reliant upon Moyes to work his magic in the transfer market, and develop players. But you know what? That's not a fluke. That's part of his job, that's what he is paid £65k a week to do, and he does it well. We don't pay him to sit around, sizing up the next big transfer.

Moyes has become an integral part of the Everton business, in using players as a revenue by developing them and using them as income. He is certainly not here on tactical awareness alone, that's for sure. As long as Moyes continues to find players like Coleman, Baines, Arteta, Pienaar, Beckford etc, I am more than happy to continue this trend until a buyer becomes interested, that has endless pockets.

When player development is not part of the business plan and the manager can basically choose the team he wants due to unlimited funds, I think Moyes will then have to move on. Until that day, I can think of nobody better to manage our football club.

In 2006, we gazed jealously at Lerner, upset that he had not taken over at Everton. And now Villa in a relegation battle, after recently announcing record debts, and a wage-to-turnover ratio only beaten by Chelsea and City. Is that really the way forward?

Dean Adams
23   Posted 04/04/2011 at 20:17:40

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Dan Brierley

Well said.
Steve Guy
24   Posted 04/04/2011 at 20:35:29

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Dan #23, I have been one of those with a cup very half-full for many years and a Moyes advocate most of the time to boot. I don't get how you translate my comments into an insult to the players; although I would say that for everyone you laud (and I agree with the names mentioned) there is at least one other first teamer who has been poor (Arteta, Rodwell, Heitinga, Yakubu, and more).

I'm saying we have had a poor season and our position could have been much worse if not for some utter rubbish from other teams. But even that's not the main point; which is that the team and Moyes' sability to do as you say and scrape and scrimp is masking the real issue and the one that will eventually see the Club finally do one into another relegation battle, namely Bill Kenwright.

You spend a couple of paragraphs defending Moyes but I don't remember that being the point of my mail. Btw, Lerner's only problem was picking the wrong club and then the wrong managers; easy to call that one either way, but again misses the point, which is that Kenwright is the problem.

Btw it's not just the inability to invest in players, it's all that goes with it. On Saturday I got served crap quality, overpriced food and drink and then sat on a wooden bench seat which a midget would have found uncomfortable, unable to hear myself speak because of a sound system set at an outlandish volume. I paid £36 for the privilege. Again in this regard Kenwright has banked on the loyalty of the fans prepared to put up with a sub-standard stadium as well as sub standard performances and lack of silverware. So my point in a nutshell... Kenwright Out !

David O'Keefe
25   Posted 04/04/2011 at 20:34:38

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Oh dear, Dan appears to be in a permanent state of war with reality. Steve is rightly concerned about the future of the club and judging by the state of the bench; and the number of players that have been loaned out for financial reasons, he has every right to be concerned.

The club's financial strategy of asset disposal has failed as it was bound to fail. The need to repay the 14 mortgages has left the club unable to sustain a Premier League squad. Also, Dan, let us not forget that Phil Green is no longer backing Bill, which exacerbates the club's financial position.
Alan Clarke
26   Posted 04/04/2011 at 20:35:28

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Dan, you're missing the point. Everyone here wants Everton to finish top of the league and failing that, as high up the table as possible. No one (except Tony Marsh) wants Everton to do badly.

What a lot of people want is some action from the fans. Everyone except it seems, you and Richard Dodd, know we are in a mess financially. People know real pressure will only be exerted on Kenwright if our league status is threatened. It's not about wanting Everton to fail, it's about wanting an inept chairman out of the club.

You can't praise Kenwright for trying to get every bit of credit available to him to invest in the team. The fact is he's mortgaged us to the hilt, to the point where we'll have to sell off the good players from the squad that Moyes has put together. Moyes is not interested in player development purely so the club can make a profit. Moyes wants to develop players so we have a chance of competing.

Kenwright is pulling the rug out from under him and will continue to do so. I am seriously worried that people like you exist Dan because we're seriously fucked if you're the majority.
Ian Campbell
27   Posted 04/04/2011 at 21:11:18

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Even if you argue that Kenwright has done his best and that the lack of money is not his fault, there have been some very amateur mistakes that someone in his role should not make:? The Kings Dock, Fortress Sports Fund, Dan Gosling/Steven Pienaar contracts.

Moyes is a football manager, not a business manager; Pienaar should have gone in the transfer window 2009-10 and the mistake with Gosling's contract should not have happened ? granted he's shit but that could've been Rodwell, Arteta or Baines.

Kenwright may 'only take £60k' a year in salary [Pease STOP repeating this lie: it is not true! Ed] but I would rather have Daniel Levy and give him the £1mil that Spurs do. Aggressive plans, short term lucrative sponsorship deals, signing decent players on a free!

Kenwright is just a crap chairman, irrespective of whether he is a billionaire or a pauper!
Dan Brierley
28   Posted 04/04/2011 at 21:08:02

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Alan, Moyes has never had the rug pulled out from under him at any point in his Everton career. He has sanctioned every player transfer during his reign, he has said so himself. Unless he is lying, you are making up situations that have never happened.

"The fact is he's mortgaged us to the hilt, to the point where we'll have to sell off the good players from the squad that Moyes has put together."

This statement makes no sense. Kenwright has mortgaged us to the hilt, but Moyes has put the squad together? Are you suggesting Moyes paid for it himself? Of course not. The mortgages/loans have PAID for the squad he has today! Where do you honestly think we would be now Alan if we hadn't accrued any debt over the last ten years? Still top half of the Premier League? I think not.
Jay Harris
29   Posted 04/04/2011 at 21:53:13

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If for no other reason Kenwright needs to go because he has shamed the position of Chairman of EFC with his consistent lies and deceipt.

I don't begrudge him having no money but having no business sense, being a perpetual liar and apparently trying to hold to his chairmanship as part of any investment does not bode well for Everton Football Club.

The man hasn't even got a plan for next week never mind the next five years. Chairman my arse.
Alan Clarke
30   Posted 04/04/2011 at 22:31:37

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It's a castle built on sand then, isn't it, Dan? Do you think all the money Kenwright has spent has gone purely on players? Are you that naive?

Do you really think Moyes is happy that half his squad is out on loan when he has an injury crisis? Does it not smell fishy that Moyes rejected £6 million for Yakubu last summer yet he's now out on loan at a Championship club? Do you think he's happy that Pienaar had to be sold and he won't see any of that money? There's enough facts to go on since last summer to suggest Moyes isn't happy and that he has been undermined by Kenwright.

How much money was wasted on Kirkby? How much money has Kenwright actually managed to attract in terms of investment? How much does the club owe Green and Earl? Kenwright has mortgaged us to the hilt because he didn't want to sell when the time was right. Kenwright risked everything on Kirkby and we now face the consequences of that. We now face the prospect that we are such a poor investment that no one wants to actually buy us. That dashes your hopes of a buyer being interested in the future, doesn't it?

If you think I'm making stuff up then carry on in your own deluded little world Dan. The rest of us on this site woke up a while ago and can see the train crash coming this summer.
James Flynn
31   Posted 04/04/2011 at 22:47:01

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The current ownership group wants to sell. They're out of money. The only thing I worry about is interested buyers forcing them to sell the highest contracted players to dump cost as part of the purchase price.
Dan Brierley
32   Posted 04/04/2011 at 22:43:21

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Ian, is this the same Daniel Levy that failed in the Olympic Stadium bid against a local rival, because his business plan was not seen as viable? The same chairman promising a stadium move for the past 10 years, but not delivered? But let's choose to ignore these things, the grass is always greener. Let's also overlook the fact that Spurs season ticket prices are on average more than double ours, allowing free transfers to come in on high wages. Nothing to do with income relating to geographical location, it's all down to being a good chairman.

Where is this 60K a year salary for Kenwright coming from? Its been stated on many occasions that the board do not take a salary. More fabrication?

In what respect was Steven Pienaar considered a failure? We bought the lad for next to nothing, and got some good years out of him. Is it a failure not pay someone more than what they were worth? Who exactly put a bid for him in the 2009-10 season, that we should have sold Pienaar to? Should we have transfer listed him? Honestly, the mind boggles at some of the statements on here....
David O'Keefe
33   Posted 04/04/2011 at 22:58:08

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Dan: Nobody other than yourself has made an issue of the club being in debt. Others, including Steve, have made reference to the debt being unsustainable an issue that you have strenuously avoided. In fact you're misrepresenting the views of all the BK critics on this thread and this is rather dishonest.

Debt is not a problem if it is sustainable. Now try and answer this honestly: Are the club's debts sustainable?
David O'Keefe
34   Posted 04/04/2011 at 23:06:43

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Typical Brierley, highlight another chairmans failure while ignoring Bill Kenwrights.

Ian has taken that figure from directors expenses he is wrong, but hasn't made it up and you're in no position to accuse anyone of fabrication.
Ian Campbell
35   Posted 04/04/2011 at 23:32:21

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Dan, I'm not discounting any of the factors that you mentioned about geography etc, but my mates are Spurs ST holders and very knowledable about the game and they tell me about the great things that he does and how aggressive he is fighting Spurs' cause!

Maybe I got BK's salary and expenses mixed up (not a big deal) but I didn't make it up would not argue something that I have no knowledge of as you have done so effortlessly with Spurs

Redeveloping WHL was the unviable option as along with that the local council expected them to develop the local area. WHU were having to offer cheap/free seats to schools in order to fill the stadium ? if anything, it's their bid for the Olympic Park that was not viable.

Your argument regarding Pienaar lacks any sense. If we sign a player for a nominal fee and their value rockets, then it's not good to make a tiny profit when a substantial one could be made ? not every transfer will yield this so its important to make the ones that do count. If Spurs paid £3mil when he has 6 months on a contract ? how much would he be worth with 18/24 months?

To suggest that I should know specifics about who wanted Pienaar is moronic ? obviously I am not given such info but the fact that both tottenham and chelsea were interested and made offers suggests that there would have been plenty!

Dennis Stevens
36   Posted 04/04/2011 at 23:54:09

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Moyes has had very little to spend on players & most of his expenditure has been funded by player sales & yet the debt Kenwright inherited from his predecessor has multiplied ? surely it wasn't all spent on the Kirkby fiasco?

Has Kenwright effectively transferred the purchase price of his shares onto the club in order to pay back those who backed him? Has the cash been "ring-fenced"?

Ernie Baywood
37   Posted 05/04/2011 at 03:05:14

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My God, Dan, what are you doing?

You can't go spouting those sort of opinions on this site. When you get bored of providing reasonable discussion points while being opposed with half truths and headline grabbers and stop posting you'll leave some very angry people behind.

Stick to the party line... which, even making similar allowances to you, I firmly believe is the right line.

Kenwright out!
James Marshall
38   Posted 12/04/2011 at 01:39:02

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So the silly season has started early, and with an absolute beauty about Fellaini. Real Madrid are in for him in the summer if his contract talks falter at (ahem) fortress Goodison.

Well from what I can tell, having looked at Madrid's squad quite closely, and being a follower of La Liga in general, I can safely say that, unless they're thinking of putting a 'Big Top' style roof on the Bernabaeu for next season, there's really no need for our Marouane to be seen trundling around in his little clown car being chased by Sami Khedira, Lassana Diarra, Sergio Canales and Xavi Alonso... I won't even bother to mention the rest of their midfield... all 10 of them.

I see we're also being linked with Diego Perotti of Sevilla. Are we going to sell 'Coco' to pay for him then?

A striker might be an idea...

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