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Tiger Tim

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First and foremost, I love Tim Cahill. He's a modern Everton hero and deserves a statue for the effort and guts he puts into every single performance.

However, despite him being arguably our best player of the first half of the season (and the only one to score goals), is it just me or have we dramatically improved (in terms of results) with him out of the team?

I know this debate has been had before but can anyone find out what our stats this season have been with him in or out of the team?

I have a strong feeling that they are much better without him. In no way am I dissing him as a player but it may be that, when he does play, there is only really one system that suits him (the Moyes's 4-5-1) and that this system, old as it is, has been worked out by other teams.

Anyway I'm not really sure what point I'm trying to make but was just trying to figure out why we have been doing so much better in these last few months... perhaps it is the absence of other big players? Who knows???

Sam Hoare, London     Posted 11/04/2011 at 12:24:10

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Alan Clarke
1   Posted 11/04/2011 at 14:36:42

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In some games, notably against Man City, we're better with him. At the start of the season he was the only player who looked likely to score. But for his goals we'd be involved in the dogfight at the bottom. In other games, he's fairly anonymous apart from his effort levels chasing the opposition down. In these games you wished he wasn't playing and we'd be better off switching to 2 strikers.

Rather than analysing Cahill, Moyes should just vary his tactics more rather than persisting with 4-5-1 when is isn't working.

On a side note, I saw an interesting stat today that we've not won this season without Neville in the side ? lost 3, drawn 3.
Anthony Hughes
2   Posted 11/04/2011 at 15:03:55

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We seem to be doing quite well without Arteta, Pienaar, Rodwell and Fellaini. Does it come down to analysing individual players or could it be our tactics need to be a bit more astute and flexible?
Andy Crooks
3   Posted 11/04/2011 at 15:13:14

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Anthony, I think you are on to something. We are in a situation in which David Moyes excels.
Tony J Williams
4   Posted 11/04/2011 at 15:38:47

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Play ugly battling football and we win, play nice pretty football and get beat 1-0.
Peter Laing
5   Posted 11/04/2011 at 16:45:44

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Mentioned this point to a mate in work today regarding the lack of artisans in the side, our more direct approach, particularly in relation to the counter-attack, and the desire to actually shoot on goal more often rather than the extra pass that we had frustratingly become accustomed to. I'm not for one minute suggesting that our makeshift midfield is the long-term solution; however, the dogs of war mentality in recent weeks has certainly produced rewards ? most notably against teams like Wolves who park the bus and like to win dirty.
Eric Myles
6   Posted 11/04/2011 at 17:39:45

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We're playing better and winning without Fellaini???
Sean McCarthy
7   Posted 11/04/2011 at 17:42:03

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I'm not sure the Wolves bus was parked on Saturday. For the first 20 mins they were all over us like a tramp round chips!!

As for Cahill, in my view, if fit, he plays instaed of Beckford who, despite scoring on Saturday, is still a poor, poor player; not good enough for this League
Aiden Doyle
8   Posted 11/04/2011 at 18:07:33

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To use a 4-4-1-1 system to its best effect, the guy playing as second striker needs to be both skillful and creative. Those aren?t Cahill?s strengths.
Glen Anderson
9   Posted 11/04/2011 at 18:07:26

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Sean McCarthy ? Really no idea how you can say that Beckford is a poor player. He's no Brett Angell, that's for sure.

Can't you see that it's all about putting the ball in the back of the net and that is what Beckford has done nine times this season while not starting most games?

On top of that his first goal last weekend was a great glancing header that other strikers may have headed over the bar, minutes later he did what all strikers are told to do: "head the ball hard and down towards the keeper" and Hennessy did well to save. On top of that we've all seen how hard a shot he has and the intelligent runs that he makes. He's not perfect but I am quickly becoming a Beckford fan and am happy he's a Blue.

As for Cahill, Moyes should find a way to accommodate him and Beckford, then we may just perhaps start to score goals with more regularity. COYB!

Mike Bates
10   Posted 11/04/2011 at 18:14:01

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Sean, apart from scoring it *could* be argued that Cahill is poor too.

In all seriousness though, Beckford has played the equivalent of 10 games less than Cahill and has scored 2 goals less than him. Whilst I'm here, Beckford has played 400 minutes less than Saha, and has scored the same. He's our best goal scoring threat on that basis. So if you consider him not good enough for the PL, it *could* be argued that Cahill and Saha arent good enough for this league either.
Mike Mulhall
11   Posted 11/04/2011 at 18:44:21

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Beckford is a good player to use against the likes of Wolves, Wigan, Blackpool etc but, against better opposition, Saha is the best approach. Cahill is a top player but I doubt he is worthy of a statue mate, that's a bit much.
Trevor Lynes
12   Posted 11/04/2011 at 18:47:54

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None of the present day team deserve to have statues and the most consistent players are the defenders.

Cahill is good at what he does best ie; leaping high and getting on the end of crosses... however, he is FAR from being a top class midfielder.

The article writer is very possibly one of the younger fans who has supported us for a limited number of years so has never seen a top class midfielder in an Everton shirt.

Mark Murphy
13   Posted 11/04/2011 at 19:42:37

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Mike #11,
Beckford came to our attention by scoring against Man U and Spurs in big matches. I'm not yet convinced but with patience and a run I'm hoping he'll be doing that again next season!

Re Cahill, I've said it so many times, it's becoming my mantra ? first on the teamsheet for me every time!
Mark Murphy
14   Posted 11/04/2011 at 19:50:26

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We're playing better and winning without Fellaini???

Or / and Arteta???

Rodwell??

Pienaar??

Saha??

etc...
Joe McMahon
15   Posted 11/04/2011 at 19:51:43

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I get sick of people slagging Beckford off, this post isn't even about him. Mike Mulhall I pressume you didn't see his cooly taken goal against Liverpool then? Oh, by the way, he scored against Chelsea too. For the record, his goal against Blackpool (as you mentioned snidely) was as good a finish as you'll see. Considering the limited appearances he's had this year, I think he's been fab.
Andy Crooks
16   Posted 11/04/2011 at 20:22:54

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Joe, spot on.
David Crowe
17   Posted 11/04/2011 at 20:44:23

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If Cahill was part of a team that won a cup or came in the top 4 again I wouldn't object to a statue as long as it's not as prominent as the Dixie Dean one. Or maybe he could have a suite in the ground named after him eg, like the Alex Young suite.
John Daley
18   Posted 11/04/2011 at 21:05:42

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Don't really think it has anything to do with whether or not Cahill is in or out of the side. Everton under Moyes have consistently shown that they crumble under the weight of high expectations. They are much more comfortable being the 'underdog' with their backs to the wall and thriving in adversity.

Although Moyes can clearly generate a hard-working, battling spirit amongst the squad, I don't think he actually instills in his players the belief that they can truly compete with the best.

At the weekend he was singing the praises of Leon Osman and proclaiming him to be a really good player, but then added the proviso that he has always been 'slightly below the level required to get into the England squad'. It just reminded me of when he tried to big up Baines by declaring him to be the 'second best' left back in the country after Ashley Cole.

Dick Fearon
19   Posted 11/04/2011 at 22:40:01

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Seems to me that a few on here clutch at any straw to have a go at our one truly world class player. They may try to disguise it with Timmy is a great worker etc etc but their personal dislike of him lies just beneath. Let me remind them for the umpteenth time, had it not been for Tim's goals, we already would be relegation dog meat.
Steve Carter
20   Posted 11/04/2011 at 23:02:04

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Couldn't agree more, Dick. Trevor, I defer to your years of watching Everton (#12); however, have we had a better player overall than Tim Cahill in the Premier League era?
Sean McCarthy
21   Posted 11/04/2011 at 23:08:34

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I'm not sure Moyes thought he was too 'fab' on Saturday when he hauled him off for not running enough. Oh, and his 'shot' that went 15 yards wide when he had at least two passes on for him wasn't exactly 'fab' either. He has all the hallmarks of having some Bigtime Charlie attitude (see his thumbs up before Reading when he was fucking late!!)

I guess it's testament as to how our stock and expectations have fallen when all we can attract is Championship standard players. I for one didn't see a large queue forming at Leeds when it was clear he was available on a free. A poor man's Marcus Bent... and he was pants!!

Thomas Williams
22   Posted 12/04/2011 at 00:14:12

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My comment on this is, look at the number of goals scored up to and including 1 Jan, which was the Stoke game, after which Cahill left. Cahill may have scored a large portion of our goals up to 1 Jan, but the rest of the team struggled to score; since then, in comparison, goals galore and spread around. Cahill is useful in many games but not all.
Eric Myles
23   Posted 12/04/2011 at 02:45:58

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We're playing better and winning with Hibbert at right back.

Or maybe it's because Osman is now starting in his best position.
Dick Fearon
24   Posted 12/04/2011 at 05:56:10

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The main reason we have improved is that Osman has finally pulled is finger out and is contributing toward the team effort.That means we are at last playing with 10 outfield men.

Up to recently, Osman was not pulling his puny weight. With Fellaini, Arteta and Cahill being injured, there is nowhere for Leon to hide... and he knows it.

Anthony Hughes
25   Posted 12/04/2011 at 07:34:41

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Cahill's a good player and I love the fella but world class he most definitely isn't. That title can only be given to a handful of players in the world at the moment... A phrase used far to easily these days.
Matthew Lovekin
26   Posted 12/04/2011 at 07:22:42

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Cahill has been a great player, leader and ambassador for the club. He is the only current player that could possibly be considered for Legend status.

However, I don't see Cahill's best position and certainly not helpful for the team, as a support striker. For me, a support striker is a player with great technical ability, that can create a chance out of nothing like a Sneijder, Ozil or Van der Vaart. For all the positives that Cahill brings to the team, he is certainly not that player and therefore limits our creativeness.

Osman has excelled in the last couple of games as he has been playing in this position, a player that fits the role, just not the same quality as the players mentioned! However, the team has improved with Osman in that position as it is now properly balanced.

Cahill's best position is as an attacking midfielder, ideally in a 3-man central midfield (4-3-3 or 4-5-1) with licence to go forward. This was Cahill's position when he first came to the club and Everton finished 4th, similar to the position Lampard plays for Chelsea. I don't think Lampard has much technical or creative ability, but he knows how to get forward and score.
Derek Thomas
27   Posted 12/04/2011 at 08:59:48

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Cahill, the this year, 2011 version, not the 2004 version, CAN successfully play in a 4-man midfield... In the Carsley role.

If Fellaini goes, he would be my quick / cheap fix. And he could see out his contract, and maybe even a year-on-year extension might be in order, coz he doesn't seem to lack stamina and energy.
Andy Crooks
28   Posted 12/04/2011 at 13:01:45

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Sean, in my opinion, Marcus Bent was more suited to 4-5-1 than any striker we have had. I think he did a decent job for us.
Mike Southworth
29   Posted 12/04/2011 at 13:10:02

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Going back to the original thread, if you want stats and analysis of our games then you can't go wrong with The Executioners Bong.

http://theexecutionersbong.wordpress.com/

The analysis of Saturday's win makes interesting reading.
Dennis Stevens
30   Posted 12/04/2011 at 17:35:28

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Dick, I don't believe we currently have a single world class player - nor have we for many years, sadly.
Aiden Doyle
31   Posted 12/04/2011 at 18:34:56

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Thanks for the heads-up on that site, Mike. I?ve been a fan of Zonal Marking for ages & it?s a pleasure to see somebody trying to apply their approach to Everton?s games.
James Brien
32   Posted 17/04/2011 at 06:42:03

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Haven't seen any post or discussion anywhere re this so it's a reassuring read.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/socceroos/socceroos-midfielder-tim-cahill-rules-himself-out-of-australias-june-friendlies-due-to-chronic-foot-injury/story-e6frf4l3-1226039161748

World Cup Qualifiers are later this year though.

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