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Can any referees out there explain the rules regarding the calculation of added/injury time for this season?

It may seem trivial, but I was surprised that Phil Dowd only added two minutes at the end of Saturday's game. Three subs each were used; Anichebe, Forshaw and Vellios for us and Milijas, Kightly and Hammill for Wolves all within the 90 minutes. Bily was down for treatment as was Fletcher for Wolves. Is he saying the full amount doesn't matter due to the scoreline ?

It would be interesting to know the Premier League viewpoint, but they just send you a standard "fob off" reply.

Karl Jones, Woolton     Posted 12/04/2011 at 21:52:54

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Lee Howard
1   Posted 13/04/2011 at 04:53:22

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I always thought it was 30 seconds per sub, time for goals scored and then whatever injury time.
Dennis Stevens
2   Posted 13/04/2011 at 08:08:48

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I thought that the Referee just adds on the amount of time he estimates for stoppages in each half & that amount of time may be added to during stoppage time if there are further delays, but it's all ultimately at the discretion of the Referee.
Jason Lam
3   Posted 13/04/2011 at 08:37:50

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We were 3-0 up and the refs wanted to end Wolves' misery. Or probably the ref had a date later in the afternoon.
Antony Matthews
4   Posted 13/04/2011 at 08:59:12

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Depends what team you are, Karl. If your Man U, the ref has a Fergie watch, It tells him to blow up on time when they are winning and stops ticking when they are losing. The fourth official should be an independant time keeper and not another ref who can have his ear bent on the sidelines.
Tony J Williams
5   Posted 13/04/2011 at 09:03:05

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Lee's post above is the "official" stance but there would be no need to continue Wolves' worries as they were never going to score.

The one thing that absolutely pisses me off is referees taking liberties with added time to allow an attack to finish. If the time is up, the time is up, like in rugby, the hooter sounds and the game ends. How many goals do you see scored when time should have been over... we have scored these goals too but it should not be allowed to happen.

For instance, on Saturday, time was clearly up yet the ref gave them a dangerous free kick just outside our box, giving them an opportunity to have a dig "outside of time". The foul was committed 25 seconds after time should have been up.

If time is up, blow your whistle, don't wait for a shot on goal or an interception, blow your effing whistle... Whoah... flashbacks to the Quad in the 80s!!
Ray Robinson
6   Posted 13/04/2011 at 09:26:22

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Tony, not quite right I'm afraid. In rugby league, when the hooter goes, the game is only over next time the ball goes dead. Usually that is very quickly but a try can still be scored after the hooter provided the ball is still in play.

I agree with you're saying in principle but that could lead to a goal being disallowed as the ball crosses the line (has happened twice in my years of following football - once in the World Cup and once in a game between Liverpool and Leeds at Anfield. Also penalties awarded during normal time, can be taken after the regulation time is up.

So there is no clear cut answer really.
Andy Hegan
7   Posted 13/04/2011 at 09:43:48

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30 seconds allowed for each sub not added on.
Ray Roche
8   Posted 13/04/2011 at 09:36:12

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Tony,

If the ref blows exactly on the moment that added time has ended and a team has the opportunity to score, even just a consolation goal, the potential ramifications are great. Imagine if Arsenal had not been allowed to score a (hypothetical) goal in added time in 1989 in a match in the run-in to the finalé at Anfield. They may not have won the league that wonderful night at Anfield....

Either the rule should allow a goalscoring opportunity to take place or the ref should blow up EXACTLY to the second when time is up; one rule, for all teams. When we played Man Utd at Goodison, wasn't there a goalsoring chance at the end which the ref didn't allow? And what about Mr Arsehole Thomas in the World Cup, blowing his whistle as the ball was in flight towards the back of the net and disallowing Brazil a goal against Sweden in 1978?

Mark Murphy
9   Posted 13/04/2011 at 09:53:23

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Tony and Ray (off topic but I can't resist): ? There was a fantastic example of this when St Helens scored an amazing try after the hooter a few years back. Bradford were hanging on for a certain victory when the hooter went with the ball in Saints hands near their own try line. Saints passed it all over the pitch, side to side and up and down until they got a break and Chris Joynt scored a beauty! Bradford were absolutely devastated ? Saints euphoric and its immortalised for Saints fans on the "It's wide to West" t-shirts.

Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2mNAk-M0XU

Tony J Williams
10   Posted 13/04/2011 at 10:26:16

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I agree with you Ray, but the rules are supposed to be the rules. Yes it's a minimum of X minutes but why do refs want a passage of play to finish before blowing? Remember Citteh a few years back when Jailbird Barton scored with about a minute and half over the prescribed added tim?

It's different for ManUre though, they are the Champions and Jags would have missed anyway.
Tommy Coleman
11   Posted 13/04/2011 at 10:38:33

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Ask Alex Ferguson.
Alan Clarke
12   Posted 13/04/2011 at 10:43:42

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Tony J Williams ? what about that bastard Graham Poll claiming he blew for full time when Westerveld kicked the ball against Hutchison's arse and it looped in? He certainly didn't allow the attack. What a bastard.
Jamie Barlow
13   Posted 13/04/2011 at 10:52:15

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That's right, Alan. 'The goal that never was' it's called on YouTube. I think.
Ray Roche
14   Posted 13/04/2011 at 10:59:08

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Tony,
I think we're both trying to open the same door here, correct, the rules should be made clear and adhered to by all referees or, better still, take the onus off refs all together and have a timed whistle with a clock that can be seen by everyone... even Fergie. And just as importantly, put an end to all time-wasting. (Don't get me going on that one!)
Tony J Williams
15   Posted 13/04/2011 at 11:35:41

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Exactly Ray, I heard Maik Taylor at Birmingham got booked for time wasting in the warm-ups...
Dave Roberts
16   Posted 13/04/2011 at 12:51:44

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It all depends on what time Mrs Referee has told him his tea will be ready.
Tom Rowe
17   Posted 13/04/2011 at 13:49:49

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If its at Old Trafford and Utd are losing, then you 6 minutes plus 30 seconds per sub plus goal celebration times. On the subject of which, is there are rule where they add on time for goal celebrations or is this just a made up excuse by referees to cover their own arses?
Matt Traynor
18   Posted 13/04/2011 at 14:59:50

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Didn't that other bane of our life Clive "The Book" Thomas have an episode in a World Cup match, when he denied Brazil a headed goal from a corner cos he decided time was up.

Not sure about the rules on that, but pretty sure if the ball is active it continues.

The thing I disliked most about Thomas was he never, ever, thought he got a decision wrong. At least Poll admitted he got that Westerveld / Hutchison decision wrong... eventually.
Brian Waring
19   Posted 13/04/2011 at 17:28:23

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Tony, there was uproar on here, and from Moyes, when the ref blew when time was up, when Jags was attacking against Man Utd.
Jimmy Hacking
20   Posted 13/04/2011 at 17:40:26

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At the risk of sounding a bit like Mr Logic from Viz, I would very much prefer stoppage-time to be calculated precisely, adhering to strict rules.

If play has been disrupted for 3 minutes, then there should be precisely 3 minutes of stoppage time. End of. I don't care who is on the attack, who is 7-0 down etc.

The fans paid to see 90 minutes of football, not 87 or 93 or 100 if Man U are playing.

What frustrates me is that surely this is something that realistically CAN be achieved? if any refs are egomaniacs who like to give teams "one last attack" or whatever then they should be replaced with more sensible ones.
Dick Fearon
21   Posted 13/04/2011 at 22:01:25

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Why not take a leaf out of other sports. For instance, Aussie Rules has time keepers who start and stop the game at a simple arm signal from the field umpire. The referee can devote his entire attention to the game without having to bother about time to be added or to wear watches.
John Roberts
22   Posted 14/04/2011 at 03:07:55

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What Dick (#21) is saying is the way time should be kept - when the ball goes dead the clock is stopped by the time keepers.

No need for the referee to worry about how much extra time should be added and, more importantly, the supporters get to see a full 90 minutes of play.
Ray Roche
23   Posted 14/04/2011 at 16:07:05

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John, the problem with that is that Sky and TV's tight time schedules would mean games would still have to finish at a set time. That may not be possible with an unknown amount of "dead" time when the ball was out of play.
Tony J Williams
24   Posted 14/04/2011 at 17:29:03

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Also John, there used to be stats on Sky of when the ball was in play each half. At the most it was usually 25 minutes.

The game would end up being about three hours long.
Dick Fearon
25   Posted 15/04/2011 at 08:19:13

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Ray and Tony #23 + 24, Time keepers in Aussie rules do not stop the watch for its equivalents of throw ins and free kicks.
They only stop the clock for the type of thing football referees do so.
An Aussie Rules game has a total of 12 match officials comprising of 2 time keepers, 3 field umpires, 4 linesmen called boundary umpires and 1 goal judge behind each goal plus 1 fourth official who regulates substitutions.
It is rare that a game exceeds it normal finishing time by more than 5 minutes.
Dick Fearon
26   Posted 15/04/2011 at 08:35:50

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I forgot to mention that time is not added for injuries. In most cases injured players are treated on or taken from the field while play continues around them. Only when the injury is a stretcher case will play be briefly stopped. Extra time is not allowed in such cases.
Ray Roche
27   Posted 15/04/2011 at 13:37:10

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Dick, it must be a better system than the one we have here which allows referees to shrivel up in fear under the glare of Sir Alex and his Magic Watch.
Tony J Williams
28   Posted 18/04/2011 at 09:05:40

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Or 11 minutes if you are the Shite

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