I was recently reading an article in the Guardian website about the first openly homosexual footballer in Europe since Justin Fashanu. He plays in the Swedish second division or something, and because his dad was former red, Glen Hysen, it?s a bit of a big deal over there.
Now one detail I noticed was that no footballers would front the FA's anti-homophobia video campaign. This to me is a real pity. Most of the people I know couldn?t give a rat?s arse what anyone else got up to in the bedroom. It really is ridiculous that, in this day and age, footballers still have to keep this kind of thing a secret.
Don?t you think some of Everton?s players should agree to help this campaign? If nothing else, it would show that this club is forward-thinking and progressive. Moreover, it would be the right thing to do. Plus I imagine we?re probably struggling to get rid of a number of pink shirts, so it could work out commercially too. I?d be interested to know what anyone else thinks.
Gavin McGarvey, Posted 16/04/2011 at 02:12:08
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1 Posted 16/04/2011 at 05:42:56
2 Posted 16/04/2011 at 05:53:16
3 Posted 16/04/2011 at 08:55:26
4 Posted 16/04/2011 at 09:08:11
5 Posted 16/04/2011 at 09:09:06
6 Posted 16/04/2011 at 09:19:47
Gavin, I think you answered your own post! Even 'jokingly' insinuating that homosexual people wear pink is in itself a remark that would prevent them from "coming out"... you've provided an example as to why they wouldn't want to!
Personally... couldn't care less.
Dealing with the "PC Brigade" is a whole different animal in which there is no such thing as a "sense of humour" ? be it sexuality, race, colour and creed, religion...
Let's be honest, us scousers have been on the receiving end of insults for years, but we take it light-heartedly as we don't take ourselves too seriously. Unfortunately, there's not many people who share our ability to laugh at ourselves...
7 Posted 16/04/2011 at 09:16:10
8 Posted 16/04/2011 at 09:57:47
Nothing's bigger than football mate, have a word!
9 Posted 16/04/2011 at 10:00:35
10 Posted 16/04/2011 at 10:13:49
11 Posted 16/04/2011 at 10:18:29
12 Posted 16/04/2011 at 10:57:24
If Everton were to recieve a lot of flak from other supporters for their stance on such an issue, I wouldn't care. It would satisfy me to feel 'better' than the others.
13 Posted 16/04/2011 at 11:04:33
I would be strenuously opposed to Everton (or any other club for that matter) supporting a cause that is immoral, despite the longstanding political agenda to foist it upon western society. This is a matter that for centuries / millennia has been rejected as perverse, yet now it's suddenly as if every one of our ancestors up until this generation was living in the Dark Ages. Not so.
The entire Gay Agenda is politically motivated and is part of the same social engineering game-plan as feminism, "free love", and various other stratagems designed to undermine the family unit as the basis of a healthy and stable society. The objective being a wholly secularised, propagandised, state-dependent Orwellian hell whose morality is entirely subject to the decrees of those in power. It makes it so much easier to control the masses when there is no independent moral Absolute (i.e. God) in place, as has been proven by the examples of Soviet Russia, China, amongst others.
14 Posted 16/04/2011 at 11:20:11
What tolerance should we show, and why is there a campaign for it? Why are they different to the heterosexual players who get abused week-in, week-out?
Kevin Davies gets the old "you fat bastard" every time he plays against us, should we get an anti-fat campaign going?
Why bring this issue to the foreground, it's an everyday way of life for millions of people and I would suspect a lot would just look at the campaign and think, "Why?"
15 Posted 16/04/2011 at 11:26:44
It sickens me when people use a book such as the Bible to justify their disgusting beliefs. The idea that people have no choice but to be a homophobe because they are Christian or Muslim or whatever is literally the most pathetic idea I have ever heard. There are intelligent Christians and then there are bigots.
Do you really think Jesus would agree with you? Or would he actually tell you to open your tiny mind?
16 Posted 16/04/2011 at 11:34:42
17 Posted 16/04/2011 at 11:23:44
18 Posted 16/04/2011 at 11:32:37
19 Posted 16/04/2011 at 11:54:54
20 Posted 16/04/2011 at 11:59:32
21 Posted 16/04/2011 at 12:23:58
"Theological religion is the source of all imaginable follies and disturbances; it is the parent of fanaticism and civil discord; it is the enemy of mankind." (Voltaire)
22 Posted 16/04/2011 at 12:25:38
23 Posted 16/04/2011 at 12:35:53
24 Posted 16/04/2011 at 12:49:04
25 Posted 16/04/2011 at 13:10:22
26 Posted 16/04/2011 at 13:23:20
I also agree with Chris (12), it would be a proud moment to be associated with such a forward-thinking club. I get the feeling it is unlikely to happen, but I'll be very happy to be proved wrong.
27 Posted 16/04/2011 at 13:31:48
28 Posted 16/04/2011 at 13:24:06
Tony Waring (4) you say..
"But they choose their way of life ? whatever the psychologists and sexperts say".
Presumably in Tonyland women wearing short skirts are 'asking for it', the unemployed just don't WANT to work, prisons are like 'bloody holiday camps' and you're not racist but..
Seriously, listen to yourself.
No evidence, no research, just the alehouse know-fuck all mouthpiece, givin' it loads.
(Like Viz magazine's 'Bloke in the pub ? questions answered by Britain's most ill-informed man')
But if I'M wrong and full of shite etc ? evidence please.
You also say 'Your sexuality shouldn't be on display' but you don't MEAN that.
What you mean is THEIR sexuality shouldn't be on display (or am I wrong ? again ? and you actually DO get all worked up if you see a feller and his girlfriend holding hands or kissing?)
General question:? Why is it that when we (humans) don't know or understand something, our pre-set appears to be aggressive 'know-alliness', rather than 'I'm afraid I don't really know a lot about the subject'?
James Brand (6) tells us how the 'PC Brigade' have no sense of humour and people should take it in good spirit... like us Scousers.
Let me tell you, James, the Scousers I know would have punched Boris Johnson's fucking lights out if given the chance (nb: as would I).
I DON'T take jokes about thieving, lazy Scousers 'light-heartedly' (nb: and think 'Billy and Wally' are a pair of cunts)
Many a comedian telling 'Paki' jokes in the 70s defended himself with "it's only a joke"...
It wasn't JUST a joke, it was millions of jokes that made it a little bit easier for some lunatic to put dog-shit or petrol through the letterbox of some terrified Pakistani family.
The same people who say it's 'PC gone mad' were saying the same shite when it became unacceptable to use the word 'nigger' in the cavalier way previous generations did (Richard Littlejohn has a LOT to answer for!)
Football SHOULD address ANY issue involving hate and the sooner those who fight against it and whine about THEIR 'freedom' (nb: to denigrate others) are gone from football grounds, the better... imo.
As for the 'Christian' post (13) fairly sure it's a piss-take... (But if it's not, I live at 667 ? I'm the next-door neighbour of the beast, so fuck you!)
29 Posted 16/04/2011 at 13:40:38
Until more follow and it then becomes the norm, it will take 3 or 4 very brave players to "come out" and then it's less of a taboo subject.
30 Posted 16/04/2011 at 13:45:17
31 Posted 16/04/2011 at 13:42:48
32 Posted 16/04/2011 at 13:56:24
"Now I'm the king of the swingers..."
33 Posted 16/04/2011 at 13:55:32
To those Christians in the the thread, presumably you don't believe in the Norse gods, the Roman, Aboriginal, Hindu etc gods. That means I only believe in one less god than you, and then there's Alan Ball. OMG! does that mean I'm not an atheist any more?
34 Posted 16/04/2011 at 14:17:06
I?ve just finished reading about Molly Houses, which were 18th Century gay bars (BTW I?m not gay-I?m not even happy), at the time, you could get hung for sodomy; they lived in terror of being discovered. Alan Turing, who was the father of computer science, committed suicide because he prosecuted under the old sodomy laws; Britain lost one of the greatest scientists that we have ever produced.
That said, I watch football to get away from the grief of the world; wars, famine, credit crunch etc and I don?t think it?s football?s business to sort out a fucked-up prejudiced world (although conversely football is a mirror of society).
Perhaps the way forward is the path black footballers had to travel; appalling abuse, and let?s be honest we all stood by and watched it (John Barnes and bananas, anyone?) and now no-one gives a flying fuck what colour, creed or nationality a footballer is as long as when he puts the shirt on he?s gives his all.
Maybe start with a slogan:? There?s no such thing as a black, catholic or gay footballer there?s only good ones and bad ones.
I?m off to the match. COYB
35 Posted 16/04/2011 at 14:15:40
36 Posted 16/04/2011 at 14:53:12
37 Posted 16/04/2011 at 14:38:17
I'm happy to let the Christians and Muslims, Hindus etc. go on believing in their fairies if they so wish, but the absolute arrogance to assume you KNOW better than everyone else with zero evidence, and then to try and FORCE your biggoted, dangerous views on others is an absolute crime in my opinion. Literally. They should do jail time for that sort of shit.
38 Posted 16/04/2011 at 15:08:37
39 Posted 16/04/2011 at 14:05:17
For starters we have an avowed Christian projecting a hate-filled diatribe, followed by a creationist encouraging us to overlook the irrefutable, multiply-verified evidence detailing human ancestry.
Question to Brian Hill: Where in the Bible does it mention dinosaurs? Second: Maybe you can open YOUR mind and examine the mitochondrial DNA, and shared genetic history of humans and apes, before attesting that we DO NOT share 95% of our genes.
As for Jay Woods: I've never seen such a tawdry, poisonous post on this site before.
You claim homosexuality is "immoral". Can you define how a loving same-sex relationship, conducted by two law-abiding people can be "perverse?" If it transpired that Dixie Dean was gay, would you regard him as "vile & evil"?
Let's talk about your "independent moral Absolute." ? Any proof?
Is it okay for me to frame my worldview around the teachings of Zeus, Ra, Baal, Wotan or Thor? (Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster?)
You're clinging to Bronze age mythology, that conveniently does not provide ONE SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT, to justify animosity, intolerance & prejudice. You ignore the fact that the self-appointed custodians of The Great Beyond, had a controlling agenda themselves, and have for millenia explioted people's (irrational) fear of death, to submit to their word, control & authority.
The game's up. Reason won.
40 Posted 16/04/2011 at 15:12:29
41 Posted 16/04/2011 at 15:17:54
I do think this issue is important, if for no other reason than homosexual footballers at the minute have to more or less pretend that they are heterosexual. That?s not right, and if the positions were reversed, would you like to have to pretend every day, for your job, that you were homosexual?
I don?t think it?s very helpful to bring morality into this in terms of whether it?s right or wrong to be gay. Also the OP isn?t about public displays of affection, and I don?t think this is relevant to the issue, which is what the club (and other clubs) should be doing to stop homophobia in football.
42 Posted 16/04/2011 at 15:05:52
Maybe he should have finished that little speech with ........"and there is a time for everyone to have their own opinion and to be entitled to it just as long as they don't try to force it upon others who have a different opinion".
I was raised as a Catholic but, as far as I am concerned, if there is a God then he/she/it has far more explaining to do than any of us ever will.
43 Posted 16/04/2011 at 16:00:57
44 Posted 16/04/2011 at 16:59:33
So just to re-clarify, if Everton chose to get involved in an anti-homophobia campaign, I would say that it is a very noble thing to do.
45 Posted 16/04/2011 at 17:15:54
So far the only hateful words about homosexuals, or any other thing for that matter, have come from the god squaders... it's no wonder agnostics/atheists are on the rise!!!!
46 Posted 16/04/2011 at 16:59:44
For a religion founded under persecution and open to everyone (except the queers) but whose main man hung around exclusively with a gang of men following the Hellenistic model established by openly homosexual Alexander of the Great. For them to persecute others never fails to amuse me. But when has independent thought ever been part of religion? If He didn't want them shearing He wouldn't have made them into sheep.
And I'd have to amend Kevin Hudson slightly. Christianity is an appropriation of a wide range of Hellenistic ideas, all taken from other philosophies. None of it's original.
As for the original question - I thought we already played in pink shirts! Seriously, I think it could only be beneficial for Everton players to support the campaign.
47 Posted 16/04/2011 at 17:39:11
48 Posted 16/04/2011 at 18:17:18
Besides the sheer joy that Everton can bring me, there is one point that is indisputable: Football has done more than anything else in the history of mankind to reduce racism. Most people will see this as a good thing.
As a youngster I would call things 'gay' without really thinking about what it meant. I believe things do have to change and that society needs to change its attitudes to homosexuality.
Jay Woods (#13) is wrong: the Greeks and the Romans had no problem with homosexuality. It was not till Christianity gripped Europe that people had to suppress their natural urges. Who can honestly say they have the right to control what two consenting adults do behind closed doors???
If football can help homosexuality, like how it reduced racism, then I'm all for it.
You can be religious without being hate-filled. You can interpret the Bible in may different ways, and one of those ways is to interpret that all gays (and many of the rest of us) are going to hell. But why not live and let live and wait until your god makes his judgment, instead of making the world a darker place?
49 Posted 16/04/2011 at 18:18:46
What amazes me is that I've never seen these people posting about Everton.
50 Posted 16/04/2011 at 18:29:20
God (whoops, maybe I should not have said that!) forbid that some of you ever get discussing this subject at the match ? there would be WW3 in the Lower Bullens!
In response to the original post, I'd say that British society has come a long way in the last 25 years. Some good things like accepting minorities have happened whilst the gradual breakdown of family life and interaction has been a bad thing so I suppose I can agree with some of all the viewpoints expressed. However, I think we are probably another 10-15 years away from a professional Football Club being confident enough to do what was suggested in the original post.
51 Posted 16/04/2011 at 18:19:56
Jesus dies and goes up to Heaven. The first thing he does is look for his father, as he has never met the man before and is curious as to what he looks like, and whether or not Jesus looks like his mother or father, etc. He looks high and low but cannot find him.
He asks St. Peter "Where is my father?" But St. Peter says he doesn't know.
He asks the archangel Gabriel "Where is my father?" But Gabriel doesn't know.
He asks John the Baptist "Where is my father?" But John does not know. So he wanders Heaven, impatiently searching.
Suddenly he sees out of the mist an old man coming toward him. The man is very old, with white hair, stooped over a little. "Stop!" Jesus yells. "Who are you?"
"Oh, please help me, I'm just a humble old carpenter in search of my son." Jesus is very curious. Could this be his father? "Tell me of your son, old man."
"Oh, you would know him if you saw him. He's got holes in his hands from when he was once attatched to a wooden cross..."
"Father!!!!!" Screams Jesus.
"Pinocchio!!!!!!!" yells the old man.
52 Posted 16/04/2011 at 19:14:51
The Bible may describe homosexuality as an abomination, but it also describes shellfish as an abomination, instructs us in the proper way to make animal sacrifices to please The Lord, and advocates the death penalty for a wide range of offences including wearing clothes made of two different types of cloth, planting two different crops in the same field, and trimming the hair around your temples.
So if you've ever worn a cotton/polyester mix in your life, you have to admit that your dislike of homosexuality is a subjective personal taste, not something decreed by God. Also, simply believing that Jesus was the Son of God does not mean you know more about his teachings than someone else. Jesus never got close to talking about homosexuality, but continually went out of his way to converse with, eat with and help those who his society considered outcasts or sinners.
So put it away and stop giving Christianity a bad name (not that I particularly care).
PS: Chris (37) its St Paul who gives the opinions on how to treat your slaves (in Philemon) where he actually entreats Philemon not to see Onesimus as a slave, but as a brother.
53 Posted 16/04/2011 at 19:34:15
54 Posted 16/04/2011 at 19:31:33
55 Posted 16/04/2011 at 19:44:14
I believe in maltesers, I can touch them, see them and feel them..... mmmmmm.
56 Posted 16/04/2011 at 19:53:12
57 Posted 16/04/2011 at 21:17:59
Although John Daley (#21) ? that Voltaire quote is excellent. Guess I need to read a bit more widely!
Oh and EJ: "I live at 667 ? I'm the next-door neighbour of the beast, so fuck you!" ? ROFLMAO... fucking brilliant, I love it!
58 Posted 16/04/2011 at 21:34:26
Respect to you, Sir! :-)
59 Posted 16/04/2011 at 21:45:48
60 Posted 16/04/2011 at 21:58:13
61 Posted 16/04/2011 at 22:12:45
I want to put something to you guys saying many of you don't care what a player gets up to as long as he puts a shift in. I seem to recall many people disliking Pienaar's God loving celebrations. Would there be similar criticism if Tony Hibbert scored and pulled up his Everton shirt to reveal a T-shirt with the slogan "Gay and Proud"?
There have been some excellent posts above and Eugene excelled himself.
62 Posted 16/04/2011 at 23:55:43
63 Posted 17/04/2011 at 00:59:29
64 Posted 17/04/2011 at 01:23:46
On a different point, we know Leon Osman exists and he is doing a bloody good job at the moment!
65 Posted 17/04/2011 at 01:38:54
66 Posted 17/04/2011 at 01:50:17
67 Posted 17/04/2011 at 01:53:12
Jon Ferguson #48 "Football has done more than anything else in the history of mankind to reduce racism" - Really??? Don't get me wrong, it was a good post but that seems an incredible claim. Football?? I will take your word for it, but I have my doubts.
Andy and Andrew #65-66: Hilarious! But just to answer your question about hibbo wearing a "gay and proud" shirt (Andrew James #61) would there be criticism? Almost deffinately. From me? Absolutely not. I would be curious as to why he chose to exit the closet in his first ever (and probably only ever) goal celebration, but that's up to him. I suppose Pienaar got some criticism for his "God is great" shirt because whilst it seems harmless (and on it's own sort of is), it's a bit much to accept that a god had anything to do with his Goals. That would suggest that god favours him, for some reason, AND Everton (not unlikely), and can be fucked getting involved in a football match instead of tending to his flock from his seat in the clouds. It's just a bit arrogant and self absorbed. Mind you, when you consider that god doesn't exist, then it doesn't really matter in the end.
I too were raised a strict Catholic. It's probably why I hate religion so much.
68 Posted 17/04/2011 at 10:27:42
This is the Monkey you and I both share 96% of our DNA with Don't be giving me, any of this, the Bible as a strict historical record / Bishop Usher, 4004 BC Adam and Eve Garden of Eden shite neither.
This totally pissed off at fundimentalist God botherers was brought to you by todays words...
You probabley think Kenwrights doing a hell (oops) of a job too.
69 Posted 17/04/2011 at 10:54:26
"Ah juss give thanks to awwlmighty God, my lord and saviour, he's with me at aaaawl times..." etc
Wouldn't you love (JUST ONCE) to hear the loser say..
"Don't blame me mate, I was fit, ready, I knew I was the better fighter, in fact this fight should have been a piece of piss for me, but.....well it was him wasn't it (raises eyes, points up) fuckin' 'God'. The truth is, and I'm not makin' excuses, the twat really let me down tonight!"
Also, if a merciful, loving God DID exist, why would he do all these terrible things.....like give us Kenwright?
I mean from what I can remember, it was Eve, not an Evertonian who proffered the apple - why punish us for all eternity?
70 Posted 17/04/2011 at 12:25:26
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