What's done is done. I believe we have had years of wasted opportunity, reasonable money to spend and have nothing to show for it. However, this is where we are now... so what's to be done?
Many would disagree but I hope I am open-minded enough to consider the opinions of others. Dave Wilson has made the point that, while Kenwright is here, he wants David Moyes around to pick up the pieces. It is a compelling argument and one that I am still pondering. However, assuming David Moyes doesn't walk in the summer (he will never be sacked), what is it reasonable to expect of him?
Firstly, I would expect him to seriously reconsider our pre-season preparation. It isn't working. We need stiffer opposition. If we are going abroad for commercial reasons, I think it is fair enough for DM to insist that it isn't worth it. I cannot believe that he is happy with what has gone on over the last few summers.
Secondly, I would ask him to show confidence in the players he has bought. He bought Bily knowing that he isn't a wide player. Give him an extended run in his proper position ? in my view, central midfield behind (if he insists on playing 4-5-1) a lone striker. If he doesn't come up to scratch, show the same courage that was shown over Krøldrup and sell him in January.
Thirdly, as far as possible (and allowing for injuries), put players in their best positions. By that I mean don't be afraid of putting good players on the bench. Heitinga is a centre back, if Distin and Jagielka are performing better then leave him on the bench. Don't shoehorn him into midfield.
Fourthly, 4-4-2 is not in fashion; however, I believe that we don't have a striker suitable to play 4-5-1. So play to our strengths.
Fifthly, and this is a strange thing to ask, show less loyalty. There should be no guaranteed places. If a player ? be it Neville, Howard, Cahill or Arteta ? is in a run of bad form, leave them out.
Sixthly, make the substitutions positive. Change a game boldly. Don't defend deeper and deeper when in the lead.
Finally, be a bit of an arm-round-the-shoulder sort of guy. What happened with Yakubu? If it wasn't cost cutting, then he should be here.
No money involved here but, if the chairman should find you a few quid, buy a cheap but solid left back and ? purely out of necessity ? play Leighton Baines wide midfield.
Right... now I feel like Malcolm Nash bowling to Gary Sobers, about to get thumped out of the ground.
Andy Crooks, Posted 22/04/2011 at 19:24:59
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1 Posted 22/04/2011 at 20:38:55
The Yakubu thing is a bust I'm afraid, just watch a bit of him on the Leicester game and as usual didn't last the 90 and ambled about. He is not going to be the player we know and therefore best to get his wages off the books.
4-5-1 is pretty much all we have, as we do not have even one good enough striker at the moment let alone two. He tried it with Saha and Becks and then old glass man did his usual.
I am with you on the Bily thing aswell, he is reminding me now of McFadden, where I always wanted him to become the player we thought he could be, but it doesn't look likely at the moment.
2 Posted 22/04/2011 at 20:40:17
On the Baines situation...we have had no left back cover since Lescott left and cover for that particular position should be a priority.
3 Posted 22/04/2011 at 20:52:55
We don't have any depth whatsoever up front; I personally don't think Anichebe will ever be any good and Saha may as well be finished (he should be on a pay as you play contract and nothing else as we don't have the money to piss away on players who can't play more than a few games before breaking again) We have no cover for Baines at Left Back although I understand at a stretch Distin can play there, we have no cover for attacking midfielders or wingers that can actually go around a player.
4 Posted 22/04/2011 at 20:47:58
I called for Moyes to stay away from TV studios, the next day he signed for BBC radio and spent the entire world cup moonlighting for various world wide TV companies.
The charge that Evertons slow starts are down to Moyes is irrefutable, there always seems to be something - the season before it was contract wrangling.
How can he possibly expect his team to be ready when he clearly hasnt prepared himself ?
Kenwright pays him enough to ensure lifelong wealth. he should insist Moyes spends this summer concentrating soley on his the task ahead.
Everton must also buy a quality striker this close season and if the only way to do it is to sell one -or more - of our young stars, then so be it.
I can accept the need to gamble on the fitness of Saha and The Yak, but it was a gamble that didnt pay off, we now know have seen the best of both and Becks wont be enough to make the difference.
I dont think I can hack another season waching us attack with a blunt instrument.
5 Posted 22/04/2011 at 23:04:01
Next season we need 2 wide players, a striker and cover for Baines, personally I can see more players leaving than arriving.
6 Posted 22/04/2011 at 23:14:13
7 Posted 22/04/2011 at 22:49:17
Nothing wrong with Moyes' managing that fans of other top teams don't bitch about their managers.
We lack the finisher(s) that frightens other managers; plain and simple. If we're so lacking in talent around the pitch and so poorly managed, we'd lose more games.
Because that's what talent-needy, poorly managed team do; lose a lot. We don't. We need finishers. Everything else is in place.
As far as players being played out of position? When someone in here is attending every training/practice session, I'll listen. As it is, I enjoy reading the back and forth for entertainment, but it's all speculation.
Again, this type speculation is the reason ToffeeWeb is the only discussion board I'm a member of. But it's nothing more than that; speculation. We DON'T know better than Moyes.
And SAF, Mourinho, etal are NOT better managers. Leaving our financial situation exactly the same, replace Moyes with any of them over these last 9 years. Explain how the EFC trophy case would be bulging with New Millenium silverware.
In fact, let's forget the etal. SAF and Mourinho only. How would we be better if either of them had been hired instead of Moyes?
8 Posted 22/04/2011 at 23:46:32
9 Posted 22/04/2011 at 23:50:20
10 Posted 22/04/2011 at 23:56:03
11 Posted 23/04/2011 at 00:00:00
12 Posted 22/04/2011 at 23:55:23
Moyes needs to recognise when he has made mistakes in the past and learn from them, if he is stuck with no money then he needs to be bold and get shut of fringe players and look for replacements and desperately try to add some depth.
13 Posted 23/04/2011 at 00:08:01
Ferguson took over ManU; a team very well-run financially. Wasn't he rumoured to be fired until he tripped and fell over Cantona? A true predator.
You haven't addressed my question. Ferguson or Mourinho are hired 9 years ago instead of Moyes. Everything else being the same, how would our record over that period be better today?
14 Posted 23/04/2011 at 00:21:36
15 Posted 23/04/2011 at 00:16:50
I have no problem with Bily needing a specific position to maximize his impact (How many players have accurate, high-velocity artillery in both feet?). But, haven't there been repeated comments here about how he just sort of hangs around on the pitch?
Moyes sees daily what those TofeeWebbers complain about. You, them, and I don't. I want Bily to intimidate opponents as much as you want him to (The power, the accuracy. My goodness!).
Moyes isn't playing Bily "out of position" because he doesn't understand Bily's natural gifts. He's trying to develop Bily into an EPL professional. Everton is a top team in the toughest league after all.
Bily will get there or he won't. Like all of us, I want him to. But if he doesn't, it won't be a result of Moyes "playing him out of position".
Oh and Gavin? You really, really, really, really, really, really, really don't know better than EFC's manager. Just like me and everyone else in here.
16 Posted 23/04/2011 at 01:35:45
17 Posted 23/04/2011 at 01:35:52
These last 9 years, Moyes at ManU or Chelsea or Inter. The other 2 at EFC these last 9 years. Speculate Andy. If Moyes is so bad and the others so good, there must be reasons beyond finance.
Have at it.
18 Posted 23/04/2011 at 02:35:32
19 Posted 23/04/2011 at 04:13:26
The Coach played him at LB. Me being a mouthy know it all youngster and not knowing any better pulled him on it. To his credit he didn't rip me a new arsehole he sat me down and explained why.
He said you know hes the best player on the pitch and I do, so does everybody else. But in the middle of the park in this league he will be a broken leg waiting to happen.
I want to play it out from the back he is the best ball player and eventually you will be gone ( I was his minder, did his running for him, covered for him, won the ball, gave it to him, job done ) and half a dozen more with you and we will be 4 or 5 divisions Higher and Barry will be the worst player in the team still at Left Back.
Not so daft Old Ronnie OBrien ??
20 Posted 23/04/2011 at 06:13:19
We will never have enough money to have cover for every position , but you see Essien , Ivanovic covering a couple or three positions at Chelsea, O'Shea, Giggs, Fletcher the same at Utd and they seem to have done ok. Even the shite have moved Carragher, Johnson , Miereles around and picked up good results along the way, as we have these past few weeks. When we were last great in the 80s Richardson, Harper and Atkins and Power were about the only subs ever used. So, its nothing new and Moyes probably thought he could get away with what he had and to some extent he has, eventually, this season been proved right. He has now admitted he needs more strikers so will they be brought in whilst leaving those positions mentioned above still 'uncovered'? Quite possibly due to lack of funds. But my worry is what he wants of his strikers. Obviously goals. But his admonishment of Beckford for not running around enough is telling. We've had decent strikers running at corner flags with no blue shirt within 30 yards of them which is commendable in terms of effort but no-one will score many from there. But its the percentage game Moyes employs and it gets us to where we are. Dont expect too much more, or less.
21 Posted 23/04/2011 at 09:08:54
Using your analogy and ideas you think putting a left footed player on the right wing makes sense? How is he supposed to cross the ball without having to turn the ball and his body to suit his stronger foot and risk losing the ball? You didn't explain Moyes' masterstroke of ignoring Coleman for three months at Finch Farm before injuries forced his return to the first team and how he's stayed there since.
Maybe your ESPN coverage doesn't show enough of the off the ball stuff James but Bily looks lost out on the wing far more often than not and that's criminal for a team that can't afford passengers, not all players are utility ones. Bily needs to be used better or sold, making him look bad will just reduce his sale value.
22 Posted 23/04/2011 at 10:34:36
You believe wrong.
Moyes has never had reasonable money to spend. The nett annual £2,868,813 that Moyes has had available since 2003 is less than Villa, Birmingham, Sunderland, Stoke, Bolton, West Brom, Wolves and Fulham. Yet we sit above them all in the league.
23 Posted 23/04/2011 at 10:40:43
"Ferguson or Mourinho are hired 9 years ago instead of Moyes. Everything else being the same, how would our record over that period be better today?"
We'd be a MAXIMUM of 7th in the premier league table.
24 Posted 23/04/2011 at 10:00:27
The most bold thing Moyes could do this summer, would be to let high earners past their peak leave, and get some younger hungry players on cheaper wages in. In this bracket, I would have Cahill and Arteta at the top. Both have been struggling with injuries for a few seasons now, and are not going to get back to their peak in my view. I would suggest you could command around 15 million for both of them, and pick up players with high potential on half their salaries. It would break my heart to see either of them leave, but I think it would be for the best of the club given the finances we have.
25 Posted 23/04/2011 at 10:59:29
The positions that Moyes deploys Bily in have almost certainly been practised in training. So he's well aware of Bily's abilities in those positions.
To use the Coleman example as proof Moyes hasn't got a clue is weak. Can you tell me with any certainty that Moyes didn't try Coleman at Right Wing in training before he did in a game? How does anyone know that, in training, Coleman wasn't producing at Right Wing, and that starting for the first team in that position was a catalyst for his success there?
It's just guess work. So using it as a stick to beat David Moyes with isn't prooving anything.
26 Posted 23/04/2011 at 14:28:00
1 he has no pace
2 he struggles to hold passes
3 he struggles to stay on his feet
He is incapable of playing at the pace of the premier league..and is made to look like a dozy prick today..no wonder he was subbed at half time..I am hoping we never see him again blue..the lazy useless prick
27 Posted 23/04/2011 at 14:56:53
28 Posted 23/04/2011 at 14:56:53
- We might have focused on developing new players and giving more of them a chance. Rooney might still be playing.
- Rodwell, Vaughan, Gosling, Coleman would have seasons more experience.
- Anichebe would have been gone so long ago no-one would remember his name.
- We would not have wasted money on players like Beattie and Johnson and Yakubu and we might have spent that money on a 20-goal-a-season striker.
- We would not be playing the negative brand of football we play.
- We would not be obsessed with irrelevancies like work rate and instead focused on playing well technically and achieving results.
- We would not have wasted our opportunities in Europe and knock-out competitions which Moyes sneers at.
29 Posted 23/04/2011 at 15:41:24
Beattie, Johnson and Yakubu were 20-goals-a-season players, Meattie for Southampton, AJ (almost) for Palace and Yak was with us.
Work rate, irrelevant? Ok then...
30 Posted 23/04/2011 at 17:16:57
Transfer record broken season after season - spot on......the problem is where we were breaking our transfer record buying 1 player other teams were retooling every season buying 5-6 GOOD players.
Post 9 - yes they did achieve success without too much money......but that was in a day and age where the world had not gone bonkers - even taking into account inflation etc there were no teams with 150-200 mil sat on the bench like there are now.
The financial gulf wasn't as wide as we now find it.
As I say - Agree with the rest though
31 Posted 23/04/2011 at 19:28:45
To stay: Howard, Baines, Jagielka, Distin, Coleman, Neville, Fellaini, Saha, Beckford, Duffy, Vellios, Gueye.
Don't minds: Osman, Hibbert, Heitinga, Mucha, Atrteta, Cahill.
Deffo Outs: Bily, Yobo, Rodwell, Anichebe, Yakubu, Vaughan, Turner.
We could raise up to £40 million by getting rid of those players; Moyes would probably get around half that to spend and there are always loans and freebies available. We also have a good crop of youngsters such as Barkley, Mustafi, Forshaw etc ready to breakthrough.
The reason I've included the likes of Cahill and Arteta in the 'either way' category is their ages and injury records, both are heading towards the twilight of their careers, and Arteta has always said he will end his playing days back home... so, simply from a point of that each would raise £5-8 million at today's market value, it might be worth taking the money.
I know a lot of you will shoot me down for this but Everton were here before them and will be here after them and survive.
32 Posted 23/04/2011 at 23:58:14
Regarding Bily, can you point me at any games he has shone on the wing? I'll give you one to look up for yourself, today's effort against Man U, he might as well have not been on the pitch which is in effect playing ten men against 11. Another example for yu which you might have actually seen in the flesh - I fucking did, where did Moyes play Osman against Chelski in the FA Cup final and how long did it take him to disappear giving Malouda only Tony Hibbert to beat down the whole right side? Come on Dave explain how those two alone weren't down to David Moyes?
33 Posted 24/04/2011 at 10:17:32
As for Osman, and the FA Cup Final ? I'm not sure what that has to do with the point I'm trying to make? But you asked so I will address it ? I agree; and it wasn't just Osman that didn't perform that day, a lot of players just didn't seem to turn up. Moyes has to take some responsibility for that. It's his job to get the players up for it.
In regards to Bily ? I wasn't debating his technical ability, just suggesting that Moyes has played Bily in different positions during training, and is aware of his ability to play in these positions. Again, that just seems logical to me.
34 Posted 24/04/2011 at 15:01:19
35 Posted 24/04/2011 at 16:00:18
Some of that is due to the cirumstances in which he is managing, but some of it is due to the way in which he manages. The only way I can forsee any change is if we see major changes at Board level, probably in the form of a complete take-over of the club. In such circumstances, I suspect Moyes will do well to get a complete season under his belt before being replaced.
36 Posted 24/04/2011 at 18:47:35
Unless you actually work at Finch Farm and Dave Smith is a pseudonym for Steve Round, I'd say you know as much as I do but think that Moyes makes decisions on wingers despite ten years to the contrary ? his record on them stinks; he has only signed one in the last five years and that was Donovan on loan.
37 Posted 24/04/2011 at 19:54:13
As for Moyes's track record with wingers ? that's a whole other debate.
38 Posted 25/04/2011 at 02:03:28
Most of the training sessions were spent playing a funny kind of keep ball game, which was actually very good; good movement etc, but bore no relation to an actual football match.
In the 4 hours of training I saw, there was not 1 minute devoted to team formations, positions, tactics or otherwise, it was purely skills-based training.
They had a match at the end for 20 minutes or so but I did not see any evidence of any team coaching, they seemed to be left to have a kick-about.
To my amazement Hibbert, Neville and Coleman all actually practiced running and crossing the ball, about 10 minutes worth. Almost all of Hibbert's crosses were atrocious, most of Neville's atrocious, and most of Coleman's superb.
The strikers did practice shooting, with Saha head and shoulders above everyone else, Beckford looked really sharp, very fast, great movement and linked up really well.
As for those who believe Everton should play tougher matches pre-season, I would say this: I saw us play two very poor sides and we were shocking, constantly giving the ball away, and with no apparent game plan. If we had played two decent sides, we would have got pasted and hardly ever had the ball. It was no surprise to me that, when we played a German side before the season started, we got stuffed 5-0.
All this I saw with my own eyes, twice. I met DM, chatted to him a couple of times and he was a gentleman, fabulous ambassador, and does have an aura about him, but a tactical football coach he ain't.
Round did actually try to get the players to turn and go forward in training, but that was the only positive contribution I saw him make; the rest was appalling.
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