I was very surprised to see David Moyes on MotD2 tonight. Apparently, the first current manager for some time. Why was he doing it? He was treated with great deference and the only meaningful question he faced was with regard to our slow start each season. It seems it baffles him as much as the rest of us,
Frankly, I just don't get it. There was nothing there to benefit Everton but much to perpetuate the view that he is a great manager operating on a shoestring. He acquitted himself well but it seemed to me to be self-serving.
Certainly he comes across as totally determined but I'd rather he was relaxing at home over a glass of wine while pondering on another poor performance at Old Trafford and thinking of what he will do on Monday morning to remedy it; West Ham were better at Chelsea and Bolton showed more against Arsenal.
I have been prepared to write Saturday off because of injuries but there was a smugness and an acceptance of plaudits tonight that made me feel uncomfortable...
Andy Crooks, Posted 25/04/2011 at 00:19:05
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 25/04/2011 at 07:12:17
2 Posted 25/04/2011 at 07:55:25
The performance on Saturday was disappointing but we all know the squad is down to bare bones and Man U are in good, persistent form even with a slightly weakened line up. They are undoubtedly going to be League Champions; we could be higher up the league with a better start but I genuinely believe he's doing a good job with the resources available (he says... opening himself up to the inevitable Moyes boo boys critisism, but we're all entitled to our opinions).
Give the guy a break, I for one was pleased they wanted him on the show and it gave us a chance to see him away from the normal press interview scenario.
3 Posted 25/04/2011 at 09:42:52
4 Posted 25/04/2011 at 09:37:46
- We don't have to worry about competing for the title, a top 4 spot or even a top 6 spot.
- There's no need to get wound up about the cups because most likely we'll be uncompetitive in both, probably doing that crazy "beaten and humiliated by lower league opposition" thing ? oh, the magic of cup competition!
- At selected grounds we can all do the garden because we're beaten before we get off the coach.
- Our play will remain predictable, mostly defensive, lacking pace, invention or excitement ? but hey, who wants a heart-attack watching football?
- We will continue to be linked with defensive personnel only.
- We will finish below 7th.
5 Posted 25/04/2011 at 10:00:11
6 Posted 25/04/2011 at 09:57:01
Saha is by far the best we have and he is very fragile (like Ledley King). We will only get about 20 games a season out of him. Becks is very raw and will never make Premier League standard as he is not a youngster. At best, he needs a Saha playing with him to enable him to get space.
Who else do we have? Vellios is an unknown quantity but does not look ready from my vantage point. We utilize the loan system negatively as a means to lower the wage bill. I do not except any other reasoning from the club BS. DM is operating on a wing and a prayer, luckily we are safe so far but, unless new blood is injected soon, I can see our better players moving away.
Results are the main thing keeping DM in work and he is doing very well with the squad he has. Sometimes injured players become injury-prone and psychologically lesser players, I just hope we don't have any problems in that way... We have allowed Gosling to go for free and Pienaar to go for virtually nothing. We have loaned out a full team of players so we are totally bereft of cover of any experience.
Direct your criticism in the right direction ? at the board who have allowed our beloved side to subside into mediocrity and probably less. UNLESS SOMETHING IS DONE TO BRING IN NEW PLAYERS, WE WILL GO NOWHERE EXCEPT DOWN!!!
7 Posted 25/04/2011 at 10:01:59
For god's sake, they are probably the worst United team for a decade and we are still can't go to OT and give them a game. Our defence looked solid so why on Earth do the midfielders not want to cross the halfway line? Is it because of instruction and that the shape of the team must not be undermined? Or is it because a 1-0 defeat away at United is acceptable?
Moyes should be kicking arse with the players for not having a go, not praising them for keeping United out for 85 mins! I wonder if we will play the same at lowly Wigan. Somehow I think the mindset will be different but it shouldn't be.
8 Posted 25/04/2011 at 10:08:33
I accept that David Moyes is a passionate committed manager but he seemed pleased with Saturday's performance. The only person who benefited from last night was David Moyes. Fair enough, the guy maybe sees a future career beckoning and has to promote himself... but, to me, his timing was shit.
9 Posted 25/04/2011 at 10:16:47
That's why I'm supporting Moyes, all those things you've mentioned have got nothing to do with Davey, to say he's complicit would be like blaming a bystander at a car crash ? it's definitely someone else.
The clouds have parted and the bright light of revelation has warmed my old bones. Football is about a day out, a chance to talk computer game analysis with like-minded souls and expound upon Alan Hansen's latest "gettit off the park" theorem.
How ridiculous is the notion that this club can cause a ripple in the football sea of life when we are but minnows among the great Barracudas that surround us.
No, all things considered I'm on board the "dispassionate realist" boat. The old way of Everton being competitive, a respected name in football, renowned not just for winning but for playing beautifully is much overrated.
Now where's that playstation, I need to get ready for the next game.
10 Posted 25/04/2011 at 10:24:42
11 Posted 25/04/2011 at 10:38:38
12 Posted 25/04/2011 at 10:44:16
Everything to do with MOTD is very much "dial-a-cliche" at the best of times anyway.
13 Posted 25/04/2011 at 10:42:14
14 Posted 25/04/2011 at 10:56:34
Moyes is only one letter different from Moses.
He will lead us to the promised land ? no language, please.
15 Posted 25/04/2011 at 10:52:21
League position & results are irrelevant... Stop "fretting," Andy.
16 Posted 25/04/2011 at 11:38:07
17 Posted 25/04/2011 at 12:00:11
Trevor's (# 4) sarcastic comments are spot on. We just look like a bunch of shitty 'no hopers' from mid-table who United expect to beat even with their poor second eleven ? very depressing. All or nothing, I say. I want a manager who knows who we are!
Our standards have slipped alarmingly over the years. Any manager that wasn't challenging for honours would have been shown the door long ago; now we are happy with mid-table obscurity every year and no chance of ever winning anything ? bloody awful!
Somebody buy our club and rescue us from this nightmare please!!!
18 Posted 25/04/2011 at 12:12:41
19 Posted 25/04/2011 at 12:26:02
20 Posted 25/04/2011 at 12:33:59
So what if he is putting himself in the shop window ? surely no one else would be stupid enough to employ him? What has he ever done for us? Surely 75% of TW contributors must be wetting themselves about the possibility that someone would be willing to take him off our hands and then we are free to employ Avram Grant to lead us to the promised land of Championship football! After all, West Ham have played 'scintillating' football all season and are headed down which is where we will go if Moyesy leaves us ? IMHO.
21 Posted 25/04/2011 at 12:50:45
Seeing Moyes have some banter about Colin was great to see.
Just chill, Andy mate, I think you're looking too much into it.
22 Posted 25/04/2011 at 13:31:38
It was bordering on irrational from the get go, but West Ham playing "scintillating football all season" is.... well... how can I put this?
(PS. I'm reaching for the playstation controller right now secure in my membership of the new breed of evertonian.)
23 Posted 25/04/2011 at 13:43:25
It is a pity the venom isnt aimed at our "No plan B " board of directors.
24 Posted 25/04/2011 at 14:01:42
25 Posted 25/04/2011 at 14:01:17
Graham Fylde @ 16:- The Gok Wan of Toffeeweb. FFS.....
26 Posted 25/04/2011 at 14:49:46
27 Posted 25/04/2011 at 15:05:54
Got nothing better to worry about, Andy?
28 Posted 25/04/2011 at 14:52:05
The state of the club is the depressing thing... and that's not DM's fault. Kenwright needs some real pressure put on him to sell up. In this state, any new manager would have no chance of doing any better than Moyes.
However, as much as I respect what he has done on a shoe string... I wouldn't want David Moyes in charge of spending money if a new owner did come in.
29 Posted 25/04/2011 at 15:20:21
For fucks sake give him a break.
Doing MoTd2 is probably more beneficial to us than him sitting in front of the TV with a glass of wine.
30 Posted 25/04/2011 at 16:29:40
31 Posted 25/04/2011 at 17:27:19
32 Posted 25/04/2011 at 17:54:37
Teams came to Goodison and parked the bus and Moyes stuck with his one up front and no pace in the team and we floundered as a result.
Until he sets out to win games instead of not losing them then we will continue to be mid-table mediocrity or even lower.
Why oh why don't one of the so-called bigger teams take him off our hands? Because he isn't much good is the answer.
33 Posted 25/04/2011 at 18:06:11
Ryan, I make no apology for my faith in Shane Duffy, he will be a top notch player.
34 Posted 25/04/2011 at 18:07:11
Heaven forbid he should fancy doing some gardening, or washing his car in the next few days.
Is there no stick the usual suspects will not try and beat him with on here?
We were four minutes from becoming only the second team to take a point off the Mancs at their place for the whole of the season for goodness' sake.
Sadly, despite the fact we were neither overawed or humiliatingly outplayed, we failed by showing them too much respect.
But to question the validity of Moyes's appearance on MotD2 is ridiculous.
35 Posted 25/04/2011 at 18:26:22
Who cares if Moyes was on MotD2? He did some work for the BBC last summer at the World Cup? Should he not have done that? What should he do on his holidays this year?
36 Posted 25/04/2011 at 18:45:38
37 Posted 25/04/2011 at 18:47:43
This post suggests you've got too much time on your hands. That's what Facemong is for.
38 Posted 25/04/2011 at 18:48:28
He actually said on MotD, that last summer he tried something different. What was that,then?
39 Posted 25/04/2011 at 18:38:15
He was fawned over and feted by both Murray and Dixon as a great manager!! He thought we where unlucky at Old Trafford when in fact we where shit, again. He thought Sturridge has done well at Bolton, correct... but why has he not done well at Everton? Because Moyes did not force the issue with the board and go out and get him, even on a short term loan.
I think his appearance last night was a good insight as to why we are where we are, and will not go any further with the current manager.
40 Posted 25/04/2011 at 18:53:57
41 Posted 25/04/2011 at 19:00:39
Start of the season was dreadful, we've consistently thrown away points when we've failed to score enough goals to beat second-rate teams ? even recently in games like Birmingham ? and the squad remains too small. All of these things need to be tackled. Even if they are, chances are we'll lose at OT next year when Moyes will still be in charge.
42 Posted 25/04/2011 at 19:26:39
If we could hear that tape, it may answer a few questions we may have asked in the past!
43 Posted 25/04/2011 at 19:25:48
I also think he has been hampered by a lack of money ? a result of us having a piss-poor chairman and an inept 'board'.
I think as a man, he's trustworthy and honest and possesses many of the qualities we look for in friends, business-partners etc.
I think he has done his very best.
I've always liked 'the man'.
However I'd love to see the back of him asap, as I believe his tactics are obvious, stale and I (honestly) think he can now only take us backwards (hope that's considered balanced).
44 Posted 25/04/2011 at 20:08:43
If he was on Strictly, then fair enough. Though I'd pay to see that myself.
45 Posted 25/04/2011 at 20:09:23
He's a normal bloke not a fucking saint, he came across ok and why shouldn't he?
I think he does a good job... he'll never do a great job because of the financial restrictions placed upon him. He's obviously good at people management [ not great but good), can spot a bargain, and is tactically poor.
The expectations are foolish and would lead us down the same road as Leeds. Give him money to spend (£450 mill City have spent) then judge him harshly if he fucks up. But otherwise, lay off him.
46 Posted 25/04/2011 at 20:16:35
We moan when we're shown last and now we moan that someone who's well respected in the game (like him or loathe him as a toffee) is on there promoting the club.
For fuck's sake.
Finish off your easter egg and chill the fuck out.
47 Posted 25/04/2011 at 20:12:12
Our manager, in his own time, appears on the UK's biggest TV football show as a guest/pundit... and your problem is?
Quite apart from the fact that managers of all clubs are encouraged to engage with the media (indeed contracted to do so on one level), surely this sort of activity can only contribute to raising the club's profile as well as his own.
What is the matter with you people, really?
48 Posted 25/04/2011 at 20:16:58
49 Posted 25/04/2011 at 20:32:52
Moyes tactics are stale and predictable. Ok Ancellotti can't beat him and Mancini and Redknapp, are continually having their arses kicked by him... and even if he did Dump SAF in the cup semi and absolutley twatted him last season and drew against him this.
The FACT is, he couldn't even take a makeshift side and do what no other team has done this season... so there's your proof.
50 Posted 25/04/2011 at 20:39:59
51 Posted 25/04/2011 at 20:46:39
52 Posted 25/04/2011 at 21:00:48
I agree with your point about him doing MotD.
53 Posted 25/04/2011 at 21:33:03
54 Posted 25/04/2011 at 22:41:27
I sometimes log on here and wonder what the moan of the day is going to be. I even try to guess it before logging on and amaze myself by sometimes getting it right. But this?? We've reached new levels as we bitch about our manager having the cheek to be a guest of the BBC!!! Fuck off and get a fucking life!!!
55 Posted 25/04/2011 at 23:20:46
56 Posted 25/04/2011 at 23:21:02
His profile will increase over the coming months and he'll go if the right job comes up. Whatever one's view of him, he has been badly let down by the board.
57 Posted 26/04/2011 at 01:52:40
Ironically, I'm making things worse by even contributing to this ridiculous thread, but to echo the sentiments of so many above: surgically remove yourself from your computer, put your internet warrior cape back in the wardrobe, get some fresh air (together with a fresh perspective) and come back another day with something relevant and patently less gratuitous please.
58 Posted 26/04/2011 at 09:59:52
Alternatively he might have arranged for Houlier's Warfarin tablets to be swapped for "smarties" and be eyeing up the Villa.
59 Posted 26/04/2011 at 12:08:50
60 Posted 26/04/2011 at 12:15:49
For once in her life, she's probably right!
Credit to you for taking it in the spirit in which it was intended by the way, but come on, give Moysie a break ? it was only a few soundbites on TV on a Sunday night...
It doesn't indicate he's neglecting his responsibilities, blatantly job-seeking, shirking responsibility or shamelessly massaging his ego.
I like the guy, admire his honesty and integrity and think that appearances such as Sunday's give Everton some real presence and kudos.
61 Posted 26/04/2011 at 12:22:24
It was quite nice having Everton and Moyes thrust into the faces of fellow watchers. He came across very well and also talks the game very well...
HE'S STILL A DOUR DEFENSIVE BORING TWAT AND I WANT HIM GONE IN THE SUMMER!!!
62 Posted 26/04/2011 at 13:02:31
Don't just take my word for it, watch the match reporting by Sky and listen out for Hartson commenting on it.
63 Posted 26/04/2011 at 13:08:10
Now, before I upset anyone in the "pro David Moyes" camp, can I suggest that ? rather than there being a pro-Moyes camp and an anti-Moyes brigade ? there is also a third camp/opinion/viewpoint? It's one that I subscribe to...
It's the "Frustrated with David Moyes" viewpoint. Why frustrated? ? Well, I will accept that there are times when we need to adopt a cautious approach (4-5-1) but I do not accept that we should play that way all the time. It was pointed out that West Ham played more open and attacking at Chelsea. Yes, they lost 0-3 - but 2 of the Chelsea goals came in the last 5 minutes. West Ham missed several chances and in my opinion if they tried to play a cautious game they would most probably have shipped even more goals and created no chances. Interestingly enough Sunderland went to Stamford Bridge earlier in the season and didn't shut up shop ? they attacked Chelsea and came away with a 3-0 win.
We could have really had more of a go at Old Trafford. As regards our poor strikers, I think that they are better than some of us give them credit. Beckford only has to have a bad game and he gets public criticism from his manager. Other players such as Tim Howard and Jags have both had their off days but get backed to the hilt by their manager. Our strikers have hardly had the same encouragement from their manager.
There is a time to be cautious and a time to be brave. Unfortunately David Moyes tends to adopt cautious tactics 95% of the time. (If he was a cricketer I think he would be Geoff Boycott.) Let's have more "Braveheart" from him and less "Cautiousheart"... As the great philosopher Mr Trotter once said ? "He who dares, wins."
64 Posted 26/04/2011 at 15:02:50
65 Posted 26/04/2011 at 15:35:36
Indeed, Premier League (hate that term) footballers as a group are never to blame for anything are they ? on or off the field?
Personally I think we need more of the likes of Heitinga in our team and Cahill: proven winners who don't give a shit for the reputation of the team we're up against.
We're just too nice to be successful right now.
So, apart from a quality striker, I'd really like to see Johnny back in the side at centre-half next year, alongside Jagielka (despite Distin taking us all by surprise this season).
Indeed, when you think about it, how can a Holland regular not be one of the first to be pencilled in on the teamsheet every week?
Favourites out... winners in... is what we desperately need.
66 Posted 26/04/2011 at 17:17:03
Anyway, your last post is interesting. I have always defended the players totally but now I am having some doubts. Essentially this site is about debate and if it is proper debate then one must have an open mind. It seemed to me that Moyes was urging his players forward. Could it be that THE PLAYERS and not the coach are frightened of Man U? Amazing what hard labour in the garden does.
67 Posted 26/04/2011 at 20:31:47
I genuinely thought that, with my envisaged first eleven team sheet of:
Coleman, Jagielka, Heitinga, Baines
Arteta, Fellaini, Rodwell, Pienaar
...with a subs bench comprising Mucha, Hibbert, Neville, Distin, Osman, Bilyaletdinov & Beckford ... that we would be genuine outside title contenders this season. Even now, I believe we SHOULD have been.
But the die was cast from the Blackburn opener, wasn't it? I was assured, as I was when I got my first season ticket as a college kid, that we'd genuinely coast to at least a 3-0 victory and apart from a hiccup or two against the 'top' sides, would be by far the best of the rest.
The reality was that, if one or two key results had gone the wrong way at the wrong time, we would have been locked in the bottom three ? and real relegation prospects.
But just as disappointing as the way our season has panned out is the over-zealous ? and to my mind hugely inappropriate ? criticism of David Moyes. Many on here are convinced it has been his fault and no-one else's.
True, he is culpable thanks to bouts of stupefying stubbornness: persisting with a hopelessly out-of-form Arteta, sticking doggedly to a 4-5-1 formation, persistently playing people such as Heitinga & Bilyaletdinov out of position and ignoring obvious changes that everyone but him could see needed urgently making.
However, I think he has done a great job on limited resources and is steadily learning, improving and building a consistently better team. Progress is not as rapid as some might wish, but we are a club not to be taken lightly now ?something we haven't been (apart from a glorious few months under Joe Royle), for 25 years. That, surely, is worthy of our admiration?
Where I think the problem lies is amongst the players.
True, we can scrap for 90 minutes, play some neat passing football and have some impressive names on a full-strength team sheet. However, there is still a painful lack of movement when we get the ball around the opposition box. Old Trafford was a painful example. But we CAN pass and move in match-winning style, as demonstrated by all three goals at Wolves.
Equally importantly, there's no real fight ? or fighters ? in the team. Like I said earlier, we're far too 'nice'. We lack aggression and arrogance, which is why players like Heitinga are so important. And alongside those qualities, we have got to develop greater consistency and a collective winning confidence.
Our current Jekyll and Hyde nature is so frustrating. And that's where the players have got to meet Moyes half way and give him back what he puts in.
It's been commonly reported in here ? and was much in evidence in Saturday's game ? that Moyes constantly urges the team forward. Is it THEY, not him, that hesitate, pass sideways, back pedal and fail to deliver.
Manchester United are never to be underrated, but our players showed them far too much respect: Osman constantly allowing himself to be bundled over; Coleman was anonymously ineffective by playing almost in centre midfield; there was no support or proper service for Beckford; Bilyaletdinov looked as if he was playing with his boots on the wrong feet; and Rodwell stolled around at jogging pace like a Sunday football Zidane.
They have got to have a long, hard look at themselves and realise how badly they have failed to deliver this season, despite partially redeeming themselves recently.
68 Posted 26/04/2011 at 22:50:04
I am not thrilled with Moyes either but FFS, get a grip.
69 Posted 27/04/2011 at 11:17:04
Also, we lost 1-0 away at Manure. Shock, horror! They have (I believe) won their last 13 home PL games are are on the verge of another PL crown. We turned up with a threadbare, injury-ravaged squad and got battered (urrr)... 1-0.
I really don't give a shit if some fans out there think Moyes got it all wrong again bla bla bla (yawn). I for one think we acquitted ourselves well under the circumstances and had Distin not made a small mistake (played well apart from that), we may have come away with a commendable draw. Yes, it would have been nice to have beaten them, but let's get a sense of perspective here: I for one am more concerned with how we will do against Wigan next weekend and then WBA and West Ham ? all winnable games that should be won.
70 Posted 27/04/2011 at 22:19:49
71 Posted 28/04/2011 at 14:31:33
Moyes hasn't tried to hide from the fact that we should have been able to attack them more but in some circumstances it just isn't possible. If we played the same with Arteta, Fellaini and Saha in the team then it would have been time to give him some of the undeserved stick he's been getting.
I just hope the day is a long way off when many will realise exactly how good he really is when he gets to play the game on a level playing field with other bosses whose board have a realistic amount of ambition. I cannot see that happening here for a long time... maybe Spurs, Villa or even Sunderland will give him that opportunity? That's where the problem lies!
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.