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Champions League : A turning point?

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A strange title you might think?

Like it or not, I wonder if Man Utd's progression to the Champions League final (as looks likely), might be a turning point for EFC?

There is much written about Man Utd and Sir Alex's chosen successor at Old Trafford. It's clear that Moyes is a candidate; personally I think he is of the same mould and although he does not have the silverware to prove his pedigree, Man Utd are different beasts and may trust in SAF's judgement and their own way of things, rather than jumping on the European manager/trophy winner merry-go-round.

I ponder this, because if Man Utd win the Champions League, SAF may decide to leave on a high; all achieved. Their ageing team needs rebuilding and should be done with a new long-term manager, and ironically so does EFC's which might work to change minds here too.

The time might be "right". I wonder if this summer is one of fundamental change for us.
Jeremy Benson, Cotswolds     Posted 28/04/2011 at 18:38:49

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Chris Bannantyne
1   Posted 29/04/2011 at 00:50:42

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Who knows? Have to wait and see I guess. I just don't see United winning under Moyes... At least it that means Everton could finish at least one place higher up the table next season!
Alex Kociuba
2   Posted 29/04/2011 at 01:13:38

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"It's clear that Moyes is a candidate."

I think it's laughable that Man Utd would even consider Moyes for a second.
Tony J Williams
3   Posted 29/04/2011 at 01:27:10

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It makes no difference now. Most posters are too set in their ways. We have no idea how Moyes would perform if he had class players in every position and actually could buy players he wanted, not just what the measley budget allowed.

The same way we have no idea how Whiskey Nose would do if he had to work on a budget of a packet of polos and a 1987 scarf.

It's all suppositions, the positive thinkers will probably see Moyes doing well with money and a great squad, whist the less positive thinkers will judge him what he has done with a small, not so good squad and not see past the limitations placed on him at Everton.

We will never know, as Man Utd will not employ a manager without a winning record and that's why they will look abroad, as there are only a couple here in the Premier League, Wenger and Ancheloti.
Jamie Sweet
4   Posted 29/04/2011 at 01:27:45

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I would actually like to see Moyes go and manage a team which was Premier League and Champions League holders. I would find it very very interesting. Can you imagine the pressure?

I would expect him to last no more than 12 months in the job.

I would also be intersted to see if he signed Tony Hibbert!
Eric Myles
5   Posted 29/04/2011 at 02:12:50

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Could fit in with the Glazers' plans to cut budgets and not spend so much on players and pay off some debt?
Richard Harris
6   Posted 29/04/2011 at 05:00:03

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David Moyes would have only made No.2 at Manchester United when he was rated as one for the future and before Alex Ferguson won even more trophies. As a replacement for such a sucessful manager at one of the biggest clubs in the world, would the owners really appoint a manager with no trophies to his name, who has rarely beaten the big teams? We have more chance of signing Messi. :0)
Tony Cheek
7   Posted 29/04/2011 at 05:29:51

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If they still want him after last weekend's game, it's nothing short of a miracle!
Kunal Desai
8   Posted 29/04/2011 at 07:03:00

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The only manager that will step into the OT hotseat next will be Jose Mourinho. He ticks all the boxes and is a winner. Moyes will never get a sniff at this job unless he wins something, and certainly that doesn't appear likely at Everton.

If he ever were to get a 'big' job I wouldn't put it past him lasting more than six months in the job. His level will always be at club like ourselves or Villa if he's to stay in the PL.

Dave Wilson
9   Posted 29/04/2011 at 07:17:39

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I`d have agreed with you on Tuesday morning Kunai, but Jose`s stock has fallen off a cliff since then. After his antics this week he wont even be considered.

Besides, his style of play makes Moyes look like Ossie Ardiles.

Can you imagine Ferguson playing with no strikers against Barca in the final and asking Rooney to stay out on the wing, like Jose did with Ronaldo?
Dave Wilson
10   Posted 29/04/2011 at 07:25:30

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Don't be surprised to find Moyesie at Villa at the start of next season, though.

Bet that thought would make a few people's cornflakes taste a bit nicer this morning.
Glen Anderson
11   Posted 29/04/2011 at 08:27:48

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Wouldn't be surprised to see Man Utd ignore Moyes completely and replace Alex Ferguson with someone else.

Would be equally unsurprised to see Moyes at Everton for the next five years or more.
Liam Reilly
12   Posted 29/04/2011 at 09:00:59

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Can't see Mourinho at OT anytime soon. He doesn't have the staying power, doesn't play the right style of football and tends to upset everyone he works for and some of who he works with.

He would be a big gamble for the United hierarchy after SAF's reign.

I can't see Moyes getting it either unless he'd take a transition period as Number 2 under SAF and I doubt that would happen.
John Audsley
13   Posted 29/04/2011 at 09:03:24

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No disrespect, Jeremy, but Moyes is going NOWHERE.

Man Utd won't take him and, unless he finally stands up to Bill and the yes-men, he won't leave his job at GP.

Five more years is about right...

Think about it, he gets paid shit loads, doesn't get given any real challenges by the board, has no money so finishing above mid-table is seen as incredible, 80% of the fans love him and the Media love him to death.

Man Utd will want a proven winner at the top level, DM has done a very good job with us but he ain't a proven winner.

Unless you count the LMA awards, or whatever they are called, as trophies...
Gavin Ramejkis
14   Posted 29/04/2011 at 09:47:49

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David Moyes doesn't have what it takes to manage a top side; like it or not, he plays percentage football with the sole aim not to concede and try to score from set pieces. He doesn't have multiple game plans, any idea of how to make game changing substitutions, or a clue in Europe ? all of which are essential for Champions. Man U or any other top side wouldn't entertain him beyond an assistant role.

Man U will be looking to the likes of Boas or Guardiola with pedigree and track record, beyond a couple of meaningless LMAs, Moyes has nothing to boast about.

Robbie Muldoon
15   Posted 29/04/2011 at 09:54:00

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I can't believe anyone with half a brain would consider perennial also-ran David Moyes as a potential successor to one of the most succesful managaers of all time!!

David Moyes has proven time after time, with Preston and Everton, that when it comes to the crunch his sides fail at WINNING high pressure, high profile games.

Be it Cup Finals, Play-Off Finals, or Champions League qualification (not as much this one, it was Villarreal and we can blame Collina) Moyes's sides have always 'bottled' it.

His tactics are poor, his man management questionable and his substitutions are often baffling.

The young manager at Porto, André Villas Boas, is a much better candidate for Manchester United; if not, then for ourselves!

This manager is only 33, schooled in his trade alongside Jose Mourinho his compatriot, has turned Porto into one of the best attacking sides in Europe in his first season and is on for the treble.

I'm not sure what wages this man is on, but I'm sure £65k a week and the chance to manage one of England's top clubs would be a decent offer to him!!!
Kevin Gillen
16   Posted 29/04/2011 at 10:18:43

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Another gimme thread for the Moyes hating public. Go and do something useful and watch the royal wedding.
Gavin Ramejkis
17   Posted 29/04/2011 at 10:25:06

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Kevin, quick your doilies are blowing away outside, royal wedding my fucking hoop, another tax payer expensed party for the royal parasites and Southern shite.
Richard Dodd
18   Posted 29/04/2011 at 10:59:47

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Unlikely, I think but Davey has earned his chance of glory.
Sam Morrison
19   Posted 29/04/2011 at 11:03:00

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Thanks, Gavin. I seem to be the only one in Bristol not creaming my pants right now about privileged strangers getting hitched at my expense.

Though I take exception to the 'southern shite'. Do you not have equally inane celebrations in the north?

Re the OP, I would be very surprised if Man Utd decided Moyes was the ideal candidate. It's not a criticism to say there are better placed candidates.
Sean McCarthy
20   Posted 29/04/2011 at 11:09:28

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More chance of me watching the Royal wedding than DM becoming the next Utd manager... and that's less than zero.

I'd rather stick pins in my dick!!!
Alan McGuffog
21   Posted 29/04/2011 at 11:13:43

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No way will United pass up the chance of getting Gary Megson.
Tony McNulty
22   Posted 29/04/2011 at 11:37:14

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Anyone know if acupuncture stiffens the sinews?
Jack Garrett
23   Posted 29/04/2011 at 12:11:08

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Jose Mourinho anyone? He's not for me anymore. Not after last night and the subsequent comments he has made about Barcelona. Remember those "parking the bus" comments? He's a hypocrite of the highest order. The game would be a duller place without him but he has let himeself down a bag full. His 'anti-football' is baffling given that his Porto team played reasonably entertaining football and were quite a fluid unit; now that he has an array of fabulous footballers at his disposal he goes to town with his spoiler tactics.

But beyond his tactical approach, his comments to the press are a disgrace. He hasn't done himself any justice, he has thrown the white towel in for the second leg and he has attempted to tarnish Guardiola's reputation with spiteful comments about "clean European Cups". Am i missing something? Is this all part of the genius of Mourinho? Or is he really as bitter, pathetic and as immature as this? It really is horrible.

David Mathieson
24   Posted 29/04/2011 at 12:31:16

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Alex Ferguson took over MUFC in 1986 and MUFC were two titles behind Everton in 1987. Roll on 10 years, Everton were miles behind MUFC in every department after being miles ahead.

Ten years into Moyes?s turgid reign as Everton Manager, we do not have one single trophy; before Ferguson went to United he had won: European & League trophies with Aberdeen whilst competing with the big two in Scotland. If Moyes had won the Europa League with Everton (Fulham got to the final & M?boro!), or won a few cups, he may have been in contention for the job. As it stands, Alex Mcleish is far more qualified than Moyes.

In conclusion, there is more chance of a public funded wedding ? Wills & Kate style, for me and my significant other ? than Moyes being the next MUFC manager.
Brian Waring
25   Posted 29/04/2011 at 12:31:19

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My other half's a Man Utd fan, along with her dad and brother who are season ticket holders. They find the idea that Moyes would even be considered for the job ludicrious.

This seems to be the consensus amongst other fans they know, and talk to.
Ben Jones
26   Posted 29/04/2011 at 12:34:22

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They won't get Jose. Utd are built on stability and Moyes will provide them the stability. Mourinho won't stay for longer than 3 or 4 seasons.
Paul Gladwell
27   Posted 29/04/2011 at 12:34:13

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Man Utd require someone who will bring instant Champions League success to semi-final stages at least against Europe's elite. Davey Moyes has proven clueless for us against second rate teams time and time again especially away from home.

No matter what players are at his disposal, do you think he would've had the balls and nous to approach that game in midweek like Fergie did?

Moyes has done a good job at Everton ? nothing more, nothing less ? and I think he would not last five minutes in a job which, when taken, will prove the most daunting job ever in football. That's why, no matter how much praising of Utd he does each year, they won't touch him with a barge pole.

Mike Bates
28   Posted 29/04/2011 at 13:02:51

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I would love Moyes to go to Utd. Although, I'd settle for him just going...
Stephen Kenny
29   Posted 29/04/2011 at 13:06:19

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Dave,

Isn't that pretty much what Ferguson has done? Or have I misunderstood the post?

I would imagine the fella at Porto will be getting the next big European club job that comes up. Light years away from Moyes IMO.
Martin Mason
30   Posted 29/04/2011 at 13:39:21

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Don't forget too that Ferguson was on the verge of being sacked when he got Beckham, Butt, the Nevilles, Giggs and Paul Scholes through their youth system. Even Moyes could have managed them into a good team.
David Mathieson
31   Posted 29/04/2011 at 13:41:26

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Stephen, It is basically a quick compare and contrast of the first 10 years of Moyes?s & Ferguson?s reigns at their respective clubs. I mentioned what Ferguson achieved before the MUFC job to point out he was a proven winner which is basically another quick compare and contrast about the previous achievement of Moyes & Ferguson. Moyes at his previous and current club is a proven loser, ie, Play Off final lost, FA Cup Final lost, and Champions League Qualifier lost. If Moyes would have won trophies or competed at the highest level, he would be in contention for the job... but he never has and never will.

If Ferguson managed Everton over the last 10 years, in my opinion, his record would literally shit all over Moyes?s.
Joe McMahon
32   Posted 29/04/2011 at 13:49:57

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Gavin ? you took the words right out of my mouth, just like the London Olympics, and the new Wembley stadium being in London. It's all about fucking London and the spoilt, pampered, over privileged, elitist select.

Getting to the post, I feel that Moyes would struggle at a high profile (glory expected) club. Like has been said, I think that Everton/Villa etc is the best Davey will get.
Tony J Williams
33   Posted 29/04/2011 at 14:42:43

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Like the question of who would we have to replace Moyes, this is of a similar vein. We can only hypothesise about whether a good man-manager would be able to take a team of excellent players to win things.

At Everton, if a player is in crap form, he can't drop him as there is no replacement. At a club with a big squad, he could and he could try different formations because the players are good enough for it.

All ifs and buts; however, it's a great thread to have a go at Moyes because it will never happen and posters can just make up random things that cannot be proven but, better yet (for them), cannot be disproved either.

Dennis Stevens
34   Posted 29/04/2011 at 15:44:28

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I'd be amazed if Moyes was even considered for the post, but if he did succedd SAF then he would go with my best wishes. maybe he would prove all us doubters wrong & show that he can match the top managers when given similar resources. However, I suspect he would be hounded out quicker than Hodgson was from Anfield.
James McGrady
35   Posted 29/04/2011 at 16:30:46

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If United still where top dogs in terms of money they would go for Moyes.

With Chelsea looking to reinvest and now City, United will be desperate for instant success so it will be Jose.
Dave Wilson
36   Posted 29/04/2011 at 16:22:32

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Every Man U fan I know sees him as the natural successor, I think the fact that without funds, Davey has shown him the door in a cup semi final and sent his team out to give them their biggest hiding in years at GP last season .

Or maybe they liked they way we didnt give up whne they thought they`d won at GP this season, who knows what makes these Mancs tick ? but every time theres a radio phone in on the subject, DM`s name comes up more than anybody elses.

I know they breathed a huge collective sigh of relief when they finally beat us with the jammy late winner we gifted them recently.

He`d be a popular choice amongst the Mancs alright, but if he`s offered the Villa job will he take a chance and wait ?

Anyway, asTony #33 says, its hypothetical.
Andy Crooks
37   Posted 29/04/2011 at 16:48:25

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Dave, Moyes for Villa is a very likely scenario. Moyes to replace Ferguson will never happen and for his sake I hope that is true. I think the retirement of Ferguson will leave the most poisoned chalice ever seen in premier football. I think it will be like the post Busby days i.e McGuiness, O'Farrell etc. Ferguson is a dying sergeant major type and with the power players have now we will not see his like again.

I think enough of David Moyes to not wish that on him.As a matter of interest, Dave, do you think Moyes will walk in the summer?

Trevor Mackie
38   Posted 29/04/2011 at 19:04:33

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On a manu site they have a thread asking who after fergie, with the names of Mourinho, Moyes, O'Neill and Blanc being the front runners - in that order.

I lifted this:

"It's a very big ask but I think our next manager has to be someone truly exceptional. If you look what Fergie achieved with Aberdeen I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Moyes to achieve something similarly remarkable at Everton.

I'm not Mourinho's biggest fan but he has a record of fairly outstanding achievements as a manager. If Moyes wants to be considered alongside him it's time for him to prove he can also achieve something most people would think is un-achievable."

Remarkably astute for a manc!
Dave Wilson
39   Posted 29/04/2011 at 19:47:29

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Andy,

I believe Moyes has been preparing the ground for a few months. He has said he would sit down and listen to the plans the board have drawn up at the end of the season ? knowing full well they won't have any. He has also said he will go when he is no longer wanted by the fans ? knowing full well there is a lot of frustration and unrest out there.

One thing Moyes is absolutely world class at, is engineering "no lose " situations for himself. If no offer comes in, he stays and pledges his undying loyalty and gets even richer.

I believe He will walk if offered the Villa job and I believe he may well be offered the Villa job.

What do you think?
Michael Kenrick
40   Posted 29/04/2011 at 20:20:10

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You're pushing this Moyes to Villa move pretty hard, Dave...

I was hoping we could ignore it as just more bollocks but I guess I should acknowledge the (extremely remote) possibility and add it to the Rumour Mill.
Dave Wilson
41   Posted 29/04/2011 at 20:29:04

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Michael

Its all over the Talk shite yesterday, Houllier has been advised to call it a day by one of the countrys top heart specialist, and the two candidates they are putting up as " targets" Mark Hughes and Moyes.

Villa fans are calling for Moyes.

It may not happen, but "extremely remote" ?
Anthony Lamb
42   Posted 29/04/2011 at 20:37:09

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I think that the idea of David Moyes becoming manager of Man Utd is fanciful to put it mildly. There for there is absolutely nothing in his career to suggest that he is capable of taking over the running of one of the biggest clubs in the world and maintaining the level of success enjoyed over the past 20 years. But there is one other aspect of managerial links with Man Utd that I would like to suggest may hold out possibilities for the future development of the playing side at Everton. Should David Moyes depart for whatever reason I would suggest that if Everton could get their house in order and construct a personal package and a more optimistic approach to the future then I think that they should try and offer Ryan Giggs the opportunity to undertake his managerial/coaching aspirations by taking over the the reins from David Moyes at Everton. Here is a young man with immense playing/achievement levels amongst his contemporaries; enormous credibility within the game; been the recipient of Ferguson's successful playing structures etc over many years ; eager to make a mark in the coaching/managerial domain and perhaps blessed with the creative approach to the game that so many Evertonians crave. Rather than think of starting a new career in the "lower reaches" perhaps he could be enticed to take over the reins here at Everton and bring to it a freshness of approach, a playing stature that would brook of no argument from any player currently at the club or brought to it in the immediate and longer term and in fact would perhaps help bring players of quality top the club albeit if the necessary stability and financial security of the club could be assured. Just a thought.
Don Kiddick
43   Posted 29/04/2011 at 20:59:41

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Number 42 :Anthony Lamb.........Did you just suggest Ryan Giggs for Everton manager?....you know the thought you had.....keep it to yourself!!!.....If Mr Giggs joined Everton as manager to learn the ropes then what is that saying about us......we are a huge club, maybe going through a real bad period in our history but Everton FC will re emege one day and continue to be one of Englands most successful clubs.......without Ryan Giggs
Anthony Lamb
44   Posted 29/04/2011 at 20:37:09

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I think that the idea of David Moyes becoming manager of Man Utd is fanciful to put it mildly. There for there is absolutely nothing in his career to suggest that he is capable of taking over the running of one of the biggest clubs in the world and maintaining the level of success enjoyed over the past 20 years. But there is one other aspect of managerial links with Man Utd that I would like to suggest may hold out possibilities for the future development of the playing side at Everton. Should David Moyes depart for whatever reason I would suggest that if Everton could get their house in order and construct a personal package and a more optimistic approach to the future then I think that they should try and offer Ryan Giggs the opportunity to undertake his managerial/coaching aspirations by taking over the the reins from David Moyes at Everton. Here is a young man with immense playing/achievement levels amongst his contemporaries; enormous credibility within the game; been the recipient of Ferguson's successful playing structures etc over many years ; eager to make a mark in the coaching/managerial domain and perhaps blessed with the creative approach to the game that so many Evertonians crave. Rather than think of starting a new career in the "lower reaches" perhaps he could be enticed to take over the reins here at Everton and bring to it a freshness of approach, a playing stature that would brook of no argument from any player currently at the club or brought to it in the immediate and longer term and in fact would perhaps help bring players of quality top the club albeit if the necessary stability and financial security of the club could be assured. Just a thought.
Anthony Lamb
45   Posted 29/04/2011 at 20:37:09

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I think that the idea of David Moyes becoming manager of Man Utd is fanciful to put it mildly. There for there is absolutely nothing in his career to suggest that he is capable of taking over the running of one of the biggest clubs in the world and maintaining the level of success enjoyed over the past 20 years. But there is one other aspect of managerial links with Man Utd that I would like to suggest may hold out possibilities for the future development of the playing side at Everton. Should David Moyes depart for whatever reason I would suggest that if Everton could get their house in order and construct a personal package and a more optimistic approach to the future then I think that they should try and offer Ryan Giggs the opportunity to undertake his managerial/coaching aspirations by taking over the the reins from David Moyes at Everton. Here is a young man with immense playing/achievement levels amongst his contemporaries; enormous credibility within the game; been the recipient of Ferguson's successful playing structures etc over many years ; eager to make a mark in the coaching/managerial domain and perhaps blessed with the creative approach to the game that so many Evertonians crave. Rather than think of starting a new career in the "lower reaches" perhaps he could be enticed to take over the reins here at Everton and bring to it a freshness of approach, a playing stature that would brook of no argument from any player currently at the club or brought to it in the immediate and longer term and in fact would perhaps help bring players of quality top the club albeit if the necessary stability and financial security of the club could be assured. Just a thought.
Andy Kay
46   Posted 30/04/2011 at 00:58:28

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Mike Phelan will be the next United manager with McClair as number 2 . Been involved with the club and its winning mentally for years. Neville , Giggs and Scholes , will be groomed over the next 10 years as coaches . All winners. Kendall , Royle winners as players and then as Managers. Until Moysey wins us a trophy ( playing a lone striker!!!) he won't get a look in at OT. Laughable!
Mike Allison
47   Posted 30/04/2011 at 01:26:09

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They don't have an ageing team, they have a relatively young team. It certainly doesn't need 'rebuilding'.
Tommy Byrne
48   Posted 30/04/2011 at 02:19:24

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I can see Moyes going to Celtic or Rangers with a guarantee of playing in the Champions League. I personally would like to see these top Scottish teams playing in the Premier League, it would be far more interesting than watching some of the teams we currently have as Premier elite teams.
Tony J Williams
49   Posted 30/04/2011 at 10:41:35

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"There for there is absolutely nothing in his career to suggest that he is capable of taking over the running of one of the biggest clubs in the world and maintaining the level of success enjoyed over the past 20 years" followed by "should try and offer Ryan Giggs the opportunity to undertake his managerial/coaching aspirations by taking over the the reins from David Moyes at Everton"

Allow me to retort with, "there is absolutely nothing in Ryan Gigg's career to suggest that he is capable of taking over the running of one of the biggest clubs in the football league"

One rule for one hey?
Peter Fearon
50   Posted 30/04/2011 at 18:23:05

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Ferguson will manage Manchester Utd until the day he can't remember what the name of the stadium is or until he drops dead in the dugout, whichever comes first. The idea that he thinks anyone could replace him, let alone David Moyes, is what is fanciful.
Andy Crooks
51   Posted 30/04/2011 at 18:32:09

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Dave Wilson,I believe if Moyes is offered the Villa job he will take it. Even allowing for sentiment I believe he has a better job now, but... Vila will offer him money to spend. It may not be a fortune but it will be a hell of a lot more than he will be given by Kenwright.
In which case we will come to your nightmare scenario, Kenwright finding a replacement.It was something I hadn't considered but it concerns me now also. I think too that Kenwright may well use this outcome to gain some compesation and to save some money on salary. I think he might consider someone up and coming at less than half the price. However much it was scorned I stand by my assertion that David Moyes is an expert in this(as you say) and is quite deliberately raising his profile.
Brian Waring
52   Posted 30/04/2011 at 20:02:26

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I think we saw today why Moyes wouldn't get the Man u job.
Duncan McDine
53   Posted 01/05/2011 at 08:36:35

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They won't win the CL final.... no one can beat Barcelona ? not even with the home advantage of playing at Wembley.
Tony J Williams
54   Posted 01/05/2011 at 17:05:11

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Real Sociedad managed it yesterday.

Real Madrid managed it in the Copa Del Ray. They are not unbeatable.
James Marshall
55   Posted 04/05/2011 at 14:18:55

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Alex Funguson is more likely to leave when they win another league title, thus usurping the RS's record of 18 titles.

Personally I really hope Utd win the league this year, purely based on this point.

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