I am surprised that no-one has questioned the immediate reinstatement of Tim Cahill into the side and what impact it had on our ability to create any meaningful chances against Wigan.
I am not intending to start a debate on what TC has done for Everton ? I along with many others appreciate the effort and loyalty he has consistently shown to the blue shirt. However, there was simply no justification for his selection on Saturday. He did not appear fit, he contributed nothing (as with many games this season) and most importantly to accomodate him we had to move our best and most creative player back out to the wing, a position where we know he has his limitations.
In my opinion Cahill has peaked and is now on a downward spiral. Some players' ability to influence a game diminishes slowly with age, others rapidly... and I fear Tim falls into the latter category.
Don't get me wrong, I hope I am wrong but what annoys me is that, as soon as he is remotely 'fit', Moyes sticks him straight back in the team, even though he is the one player who the whole team structure has to be accomodated for...
The sign of good management is knowing when to phase a player out and the secret is having most people slightly disappointed if he were to be sold. Moyes is in danger of missing the writing on the wall as far as TC is concerned, he should be used as an impact sub and no more if we are to progress...
Mike Elbey, Posted 03/05/2011 at
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1 Posted 03/05/2011 at 14:28:48
I am still seething about Cahill having left us for that ridiculous tournament. No tournament like that should be played during the season, denying us our then leading scorer for SIX WEEKS in the middle of the season and then returning him well crocked for what was left just renders the whole business a sick joke.
The irony, of course, being that are form without him is better than with him! Just another twisting of the knife in this frustrating season.
2 Posted 03/05/2011 at 14:34:40
3 Posted 03/05/2011 at 14:36:01
On the subject of Cahill & Arteta, I don't know what the rush was to play them, as they are both not fully match-fit, and that is my opinion.
4 Posted 03/05/2011 at 14:49:41
5 Posted 03/05/2011 at 14:39:46
On another post, somebody made a very good point saying Cahill was at his best in a central midfield roll coming from deep into the box, as he did very effectively. Don't get me wrong: Tim is a super player and is an Everton legend now, but I feel with the current type of players we have now he just dosen't fit into our team he disturbs the flow of our play.
If he was a Van der Vaart type player, it would work as he is an all-round footballer who can make space for others and play other people in, how many assists has Cahill made in that role?, it won't be many if any. I think it's time now he challenged for a place in the middle of the park; I think he's an under-rated player in that role and, as I said before, has played there many times.
If Moyes stays as manager and still favours this system, it is time for a different type player in the "hole" role, and the way Osman has been playing I would love to see him given a real 10- to 15-game run at it, his assists are great and he does chip in with the odd goal. Other candidates for me would be, Bily, Geuye, and Arteta.
6 Posted 03/05/2011 at 14:51:43
It was a nothing game and we have nothing to play for now apart from holding onto 7th place, why not get the seniors back in to get them fit? It's exactly the same as when posters say play the kids when there is nothing to win/lose.
7 Posted 03/05/2011 at 15:15:08
Because Moyes started them, and because he has a rigid clock for "normal" substitutions, they get swapped out after playing ¾ of the game!
They weren't switched at half-time because Moyes has established, again through more maddening rigidity, that he only subs players at the break as a sign of displeasure at their lack of performance.
8 Posted 03/05/2011 at 15:41:13
I tend to side with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" brigade, the side that has done well recently should have earned the right to keep playing ? just as Baines should have taken the first pen on Saturday, despite Arteta's record... but that's a debate you could have for hours over a few beers.
9 Posted 03/05/2011 at 15:42:39
Regarding the 'hole', I agree with trying a more technical player in that role but, if you remember earlier in the season when Cahill got injured, Moyes chose to play Fellaini out of position to keep the physical element, rather than give Bily a chance in the position he was scouted at, or the position the man who recommended him played him in. In recent games, Osman showed that a technical player can thrive here, especially against 'park the bus' merchants.
10 Posted 03/05/2011 at 15:57:57
11 Posted 03/05/2011 at 16:11:12
12 Posted 03/05/2011 at 16:23:01
Moyes himself even stated recently that the seniors would not be guaranteed an automatic return to the side.
Arteta's penalty miss and Cahill's lack of fitness cost us 2 valuable points.
13 Posted 03/05/2011 at 16:28:30
Michael it's no surprise you think that, because it's different to Moyes's point of view.
Here's an alternative point of view, play the men coming back from injury from the start and try and get as much out of them from the start, because if you bring them on as a sub in the second half and break down, you then therefore waste another sub to sub the sub. That's a lot of subs.
14 Posted 03/05/2011 at 16:53:33
But you could well be right: caution and playing it safe... The watchwords of the Moyes Era. No matter that his decisions arguably ended up costing us two points.
But hey, it's a nothing meaningless game (apparently) so who cares? Just some stoopid fans... 4,000 fans times £25 quid... £100k. Hmmmm... makes ya think, eh?
15 Posted 03/05/2011 at 16:58:06
16 Posted 03/05/2011 at 17:05:35
But seriously from now on til the pre season they should be completely rested and ready to go when training resumes..its just senseless nonsense to even think about reinstating..
Just like the retarded decision of even contemplating putting Anichebe into the team..he is supposed to be a striker but hasn't got a first clue where the goal is..so why play him?...I guess thats another story.
17 Posted 03/05/2011 at 17:04:36
I never said I expected him to break down at all Michael, I offered the scenario that if he does, we have wasted another sub replacing the sub.
Norman, I agree people just argue for the sake of it, just look close to home too, any kind of defence or praise of Moyes get set upon straight away.
It was a meaningless game to us, not to Wigan who were fighting for their premiership lives. Makes you think about what Michael?
All the crap the team got for the Man U game and now posters are criticising the manager for changing the team. Gotta love it!
18 Posted 03/05/2011 at 17:30:26
19 Posted 03/05/2011 at 17:30:56
DM has always played his favourites whether in or out of form and that goes back to Weir and Naysmith when both were past Premiership standard... also Pistone and others.
DM is given false credit to my mind when he is supposed to encourage young players... he has consistently played 'name' players out of position rather than 'blood' a youngster. As long as Lescott could play full-back, Baines was kept out; he has blossomed since Lescott went.
Even Rooney was not utilized fully when he obviously was good enough for our team.
20 Posted 03/05/2011 at 17:42:55
21 Posted 03/05/2011 at 17:58:04
22 Posted 03/05/2011 at 18:44:19
23 Posted 03/05/2011 at 19:36:25
24 Posted 03/05/2011 at 20:40:28
The scenario you cite has such a low percentage probability, it is not worth thinking about. Moyes had a decision to make and there is plenty to indicate that he got it wrong and that it contributed to us losing two more points ? two points that some of us thought might be important... But no, you have informed us it was a meaningless game for Everton FC. Certainly the way most of the players performed, I can't argue with that, so you must be right on that score.
What it made me think about was those poor bloody fans who paid out good money. Read Ken Buckley's report for a sense of how they probably felt about things.
25 Posted 03/05/2011 at 21:09:00
26 Posted 03/05/2011 at 21:21:29
Whilst I accepted Cahill was not fit, my main point was that he was just automatically brought back in without any justification in my mind.
To me, we looked a far better team and far more creative team with Osman in the supporting striker role. I believe Cahill offers very little in this position now other than to 'rough up' the defenders. He doesnt score enough goals to compensate for the fact that creatively he contributes very little.
That does not mean I don't appreciate what Cahill has done for Everton; I do. However, his service for the club should not guarantee him a place in the side at the team's expense... which I believe is happening now.
Osman should be the automatic choice in the 'hole' position with TC as his back-up, or to be utilised against certain sides where his aggressive in-your-face attitude is required.
If Moyes continues to pick Cahill irrespective of form or ability, then a fantastic Everton career will be over-shadowed by the crowd getting on his back as his influence dwindles ? and that will be sad.
27 Posted 03/05/2011 at 21:26:47
I can't quite see the logic here, Tony. What would be the point of giving the pair a lot of playing time in the last matches of the season, just to get them fit in time for the summer break? Pre-season training should be adequate preparation for the next campaign, so the odd sub-appearance is all one would expect from a couple of players returning from injury to a team that's been on a quite decent run of form of late.
There's no comparison with the "play the kids" perspective ? the idea there is that the youngsters get some experience & a chance to see whether they look like they have the potential to make it at this level. I could even understand Moyes starting them if he has doubts about whether they can come back to their best & he's considering off-loading them in the summer, but don't imagine for a moment that would be the case.
As for "nothing games", three more performances like Saturday's & we may well struggle to hang on to a top half finish, never mind 7th place!
28 Posted 03/05/2011 at 22:02:40
Should be giving Vellios, Forshaw, Mustafa, even Duffy (get him off loan) some game time. What does he need to know about Anichebe, Arteta, Cahill?
I could tell him one is not up to standard, and the other two are unfit. He could find out he has other options with the youngsters. He would at least get one thing... some enthusiasm.
29 Posted 03/05/2011 at 22:11:39
30 Posted 03/05/2011 at 22:14:50
I agree with Michael as well ? Cahill should have backed out of that tournament, which was a joke.
31 Posted 03/05/2011 at 22:46:01
32 Posted 04/05/2011 at 00:35:50
It may be a good idea to try a few out ourselves in the next couple of games. At least it will keep the 'senior' players safe from injury... Perhaps it will encourage Rodwell to take more responsibility and show his worth. He seems to be just going through the motions at present.
33 Posted 04/05/2011 at 00:29:27
I guess Arteta's lousy penno can be put down to Cahill while Neville's repeated shite crosses were all his fault as well. Jag's hoof balls and Coleman's head down blind alley runs were the result of Cahill being in the team and if he wasn't in the team Rodwell would probably have made at least one forward pass.
Maybe if we got rid of the little Aussie bastard those brilliant super subs Beckford and Bily could show just how fantastic they are. Then again we could all benefit from a dose of reality.
34 Posted 04/05/2011 at 01:11:55
Subsequently, Timmy scores a decent amount of goals and makes himself look good, while the overall balance of the team suffers.
Remember the game against Spurs at Goodison this season? I think it was the first game since TC had left to play in that worthless competition... Moyes surprised everyone by going with Saha and Beckford up front, and we looked a completely different, and improved team for it.
Don't get me wrong, I love our Timmy, but for the benefit of the TEAM... there is no way that he should be a guaranteed starter.
Just thought I'd throw put this out there, but I wonder how many of those on here who defend TC so passionately are Blues residing Down Under? I imagine it would be the vast majority!
35 Posted 04/05/2011 at 01:20:14
You really do live up to your name....
36 Posted 04/05/2011 at 02:38:34
37 Posted 04/05/2011 at 06:38:00
Cahill in my eyes is an Everton legend but, after seeing us create hardly any chances for months just before he was injured, then change tactics and create a glut of chances and a good few goals, I actually feared us getting back to creating nothing when Cahill came back; although it's early days, I cannot see it changing.
We had started to see far more movement upfront with a very basic first eleven too and that had a lot to do with the Cahill factor.
38 Posted 04/05/2011 at 06:57:48
Maybe it's about time the fans and manager started realising he is actually as good, if not better, than some of the undroppables when played in his prefered position.
39 Posted 04/05/2011 at 08:52:50
40 Posted 04/05/2011 at 08:55:55
This season just reflects the shitty results we always seem to get at Wigan. I hate them and can't wait to see them gone, I just wish Birmingham would go with them too.
41 Posted 04/05/2011 at 08:55:33
As for playing Arteta, what was wrong with that? We've all been moaning about how shit Bily is. Moyes drops him to play 'the best little Spaniard we know' and everyone's pissed off about it.
42 Posted 04/05/2011 at 08:53:11
To blame Cahill for Osman's weakness in his other games is plainly ridiculous. I have no doubt that, should Bily or Anichebe get the same number of games as Leon, at some point they would hit a short-lived purple patch. That would not suddenly turn them into consitently top-class performers.
43 Posted 04/05/2011 at 09:29:09
44 Posted 04/05/2011 at 12:10:05
I am staunch Cahill but have started to realise it's time to look at the system that accommodates him.
And as for your shouts on Bily and Anichebe, good lord, get real: Anichebe has had enough games for us to have this purple patch.
45 Posted 04/05/2011 at 12:26:23
Where is Cahill's love for Everton when he keeps fucking off for these Mickey Mouse cups?
The fact that he comes back injured as well takes the biscuit. Again add Cahill to the Osman, Neville, Hibbert group of players who can do no wrong.
I feel sorry for Osman, he's a good squad player who, when injuries hit, can come in and do a job; credit where it's due, he's been playing bloody well. What a kick to the balls then to be shafted aside and moved over because everyone's favorite Aussie is back in town.
David Moyes man-management skills again there for all to see.
46 Posted 04/05/2011 at 12:31:31
47 Posted 04/05/2011 at 12:57:46
Arteta has, or perhaps had a better record than Baines from the spot, I wanted him to take it if I'm honest, had Baines took it and missed you'd be having a pop at Arteta for not having the balls to take it. He wanted the responsiblity, he missed, get over it. People bang on about his wages and taking responsibilty, you cant have it both ways.
48 Posted 04/05/2011 at 14:38:48
I have never suggested that others did not have bad games on Saturday; I thought collectively we were poor.
However, one of 'Dick's' comments was that Osman reverted to type which is slightly unfair as he was actually one of our better players (not hard on Saturday, admitedly).
I have actually been one of Osman's biggest critics down the years but these last few months he has shown me that when played on a central position he IS a good player. As such I have decided it is unfair to criticise him when he plays poorly when played out of position.
My point in the initial article was: Why should Cahill automatically be picked in his favoured position and the whole shape of the team be changed to accommodate him??
Maybe this change of formation / shape contributed to the poor performance by others? If it did, that's not a criticism of Cahill but it is of the manager for changing the shape.
If Moyes wanted Cahill back in the team, why couldnt he have shoved him out on the right wing instead of Osman? ? I will tell you why: because Cahill now offers little apart from winning a few headers and annoying the opposition.
It has been proven over the past couple of seasons that we create more chances when he is not in the team than in it and, as has been pointed out by others above, our best form coinidently seems to coincide with his absence from the teamsheet, for whatever reason.
Isn't it funny that, when Cahill plays, he seems to be the only player who scores... wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that our whole style of play is set up to accommodate him, would it?
Dick's post was irrelevant to this topic: we all know Victor is shit, that Coleman runs down blind alleys and that Jags has a great 'av it' on him. But they are also the players who come good when Cahill is not in the team and as a team we seem to play with a LOT more creativity; I'm afraid that is an indisputable fact.
49 Posted 04/05/2011 at 14:33:55
The problem with Cahill is obvious. With him playing Advanced Midfield, our ball movement is restricted to the wings. Cahill will just set up at the edge of the box and wait for the cross.
With Osman, however, he moves to where the ball is and creates passing triangles at every location (3 in midfield, 3 on both the wings-i.e. Baines, Arteta, Osman). A 3-man passing attack is a lot more effective than a 2-man attack.
If we insist on using Cahill in the hole, we absolutely need great service from the wings. Unfortunately, although Baines can handle the left side, Coleman/Hibbo aren't good crossers from the right. Maybe Magaye Gueye should get more time when Cahill is in. He seems quite adept at crosses.
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