The Kenwright debate will run on for as long as he is in charge. Fans state we are better off in his control than some big investor that only wants to use us as a plaything; others suggest we need to sell to progress... I believe in the latter and I have two points to put across to fans on the way I believe we can take Everton forward.
1. Firstly, if Bill Kenwright really wants to sell the club, why doesn't he put it on the market for £1, like other clubs have done in the past? Sell the club for a quid and the new owner buys the debt, say £70-80 million, then the new owners could look to update the stadium in stages while giving the manager serious funds to compete at the top level. Of course, the downside to this is that Kenwright and Co won't receive a big payoff.
2. The stadium issue, now if the club wants to raise funds, why not sell us fans the bricks? One brick could cost £100... for your £100 you will have your name and date of birth etched into the brick. Therefore, you will become a part of the future history of the club that we all love. I for one would buy one.
What do Evertonians think of these ideas?
Sean McKenna, Posted 12/05/2011 at 12:03:44
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 12/05/2011 at 14:53:37
I'd buy a brick if I trusted the money would go to revamping Goodison (or building a great new one on a good location), but as of now, we are not allowed to do shit at Goodison if I understand the latest drama correctly.
2 Posted 12/05/2011 at 15:02:40
3 Posted 12/05/2011 at 15:08:16
4 Posted 12/05/2011 at 15:08:23
Regarding your brick idea ? I've heard a lot worse, Desperation Kirkby being one.
5 Posted 12/05/2011 at 15:19:14
6 Posted 12/05/2011 at 15:26:40
7 Posted 12/05/2011 at 15:42:54
I want Kenwright out, so your first idea sounds great on the face of it. However, I suspect that it is not Kenwright who pulls the strings. I guess - and I have no firm evidence - that major financial decisions are taken by Messrs Green and Earl, and they will not want to sell cheaply.
One the bricks idea, Sam at No. 2 makes a fair point, but if fans are going to put money in then there must be a mechanism for fan-based control, such as a supporters trust, or the club becoming a membership club on the lines of the Spanish model.
I see no reason why supporters should put money in, without any change to the current regime or management/ownership structure. I have no desire to bail Kenwright and his cohorts out.
8 Posted 12/05/2011 at 15:40:01
As for the brick idea, Sunderland have a wall of fame, where fans can pay £35 to have their name etched on a brick and also receive a certificate ? they even do brick tours... god knows why.
9 Posted 12/05/2011 at 16:02:45
Second idea is good but I would want a personal and written agreement that the £100 I spent would got to the club and not the bank or to pay off some dodgy investor in the background wanting his moolah back.
10 Posted 12/05/2011 at 16:04:43
11 Posted 12/05/2011 at 16:10:18
12 Posted 12/05/2011 at 16:56:24
The fact that Kenwright won't sell for a pound is the exact reason that he shouldn't be classed as an Evertonian. Despite how much he says he is, he isn't. Where was he the night of the Reading game?
That bastard has mismanaged our club's finances for years and years. Instead of Kirkby he may as well have stood in the street and set fire to £5million pounds. Having run up so much debt, why should he walk away with a nice tidy profit?
Some of you need to have a word with yourselves. It is absolutely NOT acceptable for that liar to walk away from our club richer than when he entered it. Perhaps the club would be a far more attractive investment if the buyers only had to service our debt and not Kenwright's pockets.
13 Posted 12/05/2011 at 16:50:04
I've heard the "if Kenwright loves the club he should sell it for a pound" argument before, and yeah sure, that'd be great. But it's a useless argument because he won't do that, so there is no point dwelling on the idea.
I think we will probably have to wait for kenwright to become old and invalid or otherwise die before we see a change in ownership. Now I'm no fan of the guy, but I don't wish death on him either. Anyways, it seems that the bigger the bastard, the longer they live, so we might be in for one hell of a wait.
I'm hoping I strike oil in my backyard and become a billionaire so I can by the club off him myself. I think it's more likely than Kenwright flogging the club for a pound.
I'm heading out back now to start digging holes, will let you all know when I strike that liquid gold.
14 Posted 12/05/2011 at 17:22:38
15 Posted 12/05/2011 at 17:27:42
16 Posted 12/05/2011 at 17:30:37
....they can play as much as they want in my view, a la Abramovich, provided it makes us competitive.
17 Posted 12/05/2011 at 17:49:57
Has anyone thought about the fans trust buying Goodison Park itself and renting it back to the club? The trust take on the mortgage(s) and the rent from the club goes towards renovation/modernisation where BK and the board wouldn't have the opportunity to fuck it up, the trust as owners of the ground decide the approach and rebuild, revenue from rent and any additional buildings such as offices, car park and leisure give shareholders in the trust a choice of dividend or reinvestment.
18 Posted 12/05/2011 at 18:04:26
Without any shadow of a doubt, the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my life.
1. What kind of owner would we attract for a fucking pound?
2. Why on earth should anybody sell a club worth millions for a pound? However much they love it? A reluctance to destroy your livelihood ? and the livelihoods of those dear to you ? does not mean you are not an Evertonian
Jesus wept, I'm no BK fan but I'm absolutely seething at that comment. It sums up why this fantastic website gets so much stick.
19 Posted 12/05/2011 at 18:13:52
However since the finances of the club are so byzantine, nobody has a fucking clue how much any of them have put in of their OWN money. I know how much of MY own money I've put in for my one share, but as for the Board, with their 'Holding Companies', 'Blind Trusts', 'Special Purpose Vehicles' etc etc etc who knows?
20 Posted 12/05/2011 at 18:27:29
I'd happily invest in some fan share arrangement (or brick buying) if it would assist the club in moving forward.
21 Posted 12/05/2011 at 18:45:35
Bricks are a fine idea for a "small" renovation. But you likely won't make more than a few million at most from that. Say 30,000 bricks sold at £100 each with a labor charge of £10. That would be £2.7 million. That won't buy much of anything.
22 Posted 12/05/2011 at 18:53:39
As far as the sell for a pound goes, did you not read about Sir Jack Hayward selling Wolves for a pound on the understanding that Steve Morgan invested £30m into it. Growing debts with no plan to reduce them and an unknown price tag which caused at least one buyer to run at due diligence sound like an attempt at profiteering which failed but hasn't caused a change of heart from BK to name his price or reduce it.
23 Posted 12/05/2011 at 19:02:57
As for the bricks, not a bad idea but hardly a proper solution to any of our problems, that's not to say I have the answers.
Just a final point from an eariler post and how BK has come to own the club. Where does all this Philip Green business come from? He obviously doesn't put any money in for transfers because we've only spent about £3mil after sales since BK took over, and the club as taken on debt for losses. Is the suggestion that Green gave bill the money for the club? Any evidence for this? Pure conjecture?
24 Posted 12/05/2011 at 19:08:46
25 Posted 12/05/2011 at 19:26:33
26 Posted 12/05/2011 at 20:53:58
Dave Whelan Kenwright ain't as Gareth Humphreys states!
27 Posted 12/05/2011 at 21:04:56
28 Posted 12/05/2011 at 20:55:34
If we are going to attack the man, and lord knows there is plenty of evidence available to castigate him as the devil incarnate. Then let's keep the debate real and not cast aspersions into his Evertonian credentials because he missed one game.
29 Posted 12/05/2011 at 21:33:37
Kenwright has plunged us into massive debt. Now if you were someone with money looking to buy a club, would you look at buying a club that was in massive debt, needs a new stadium and the owner's looking to make a massive profit? It's simple. When the business is pretty fucked, why would a buyer spend money lining the pocket of the clueless twat who ran up all the debt? Answer, they wouldn't.
Now if you only had to buy the club for a pound but your money goes towards clearing the debt and building a new stadium, with some left over for team building, does that look like a better investment? Answer: Yes.
The fact that Kenwright is either not willing to sell a failing business or is looking to line his pockets shows that his interests are his own and not the club's. If you think, Paul, Kenwright is entitled to line his pockets then you've no clue what this club means to the rest of us.
30 Posted 12/05/2011 at 21:34:03
31 Posted 12/05/2011 at 23:28:04
It's a fair choice as long as you don't spout the utter drivel true blue, lives breathes and sleeps Everton and other meaningless sound bites, trouble is that's all he ever does and some suckers fall for it, not implying that you do but to me any others that highlighted that he couldn't be arsed with the Reading game showed his true colours. It wasn't a meaningless midweek game, it wasn't an end of season meaningless mid table game, it was a fucking cup game after we had beaten the league champions, a game he didn't have to put his hand in his pocket for, he chose his theatre world.
32 Posted 12/05/2011 at 23:34:02
I suppose it takes our minds of the real reason we had such a frustrating could have been season.
I suppose it was down to Bill that for the first half dozen or so games when it was very clear that we had the most physically unfit under prepared team in the entire division.
Was it Bill who confounded everyone with team selection and positional placings?
Bill must have ordered Moyes to use mind boggling defensive tactics in home games against potential and as it turned out, actual relegation fodder.
Our second half displays are often much better than the first. An indication perhaps that Moyes or is it Bill's pre match player motivation is crap.
We all wish there was shed loads of cash in the transfer kitty but that does not hide the fact that our season could have been so much better.
33 Posted 13/05/2011 at 02:24:47
It all went quiet though after an initial period of enthusiasm. Anyone have any idea what's happening with the latest proposal for a Supporters Trust? that's all gone quiet now.
34 Posted 13/05/2011 at 03:11:22
There are a lot of valid arguments about Moyes' failings, but he is not the chairman and, as close as their friendship might be, he is not responsible for all the off field bullshit that has gone on for the past decade or so. The man destroying the club is BK, under a sound ownership the worst you could accuse Moyes of is being a somewhat incompetant manager.
35 Posted 13/05/2011 at 06:16:09
You couldn't even be arsed to go to the Reading game yourself... so don't be such a hypocrite.
Are you acting for the defence or the prosecution? Your latest charge against Kenwright is more damning than any other.
Is he really paying a guy 3 million quid a year to run our club into the ground?
36 Posted 13/05/2011 at 07:30:35
Before another shot is aimed across my bows I wave the white flag of surrender. I have been ground down and not in any mood to swim against the paranoic sunami that denies balanced debate about the problems facing our club.
37 Posted 13/05/2011 at 08:25:33
38 Posted 13/05/2011 at 10:25:18
If he chooses to miss the odd game whether that be a cup game or a pre season friendly to do other things outside of football, then that is his choice. Nobody has the right to question him over his no show at the Reading game whether he pays for his tickets or not.
Let's tackle the real issues here and leave this nonsense behind.
39 Posted 13/05/2011 at 11:33:45
He had to be there.
If there is anybody on this site who has never been in a position where their job and keeping a roof over their head has prevented attendance at a match then they are very, very fortunate.
As for him not putting any of his own money into the club, it is well known that he remortgaged his house to buy up Johnson's stake. Even his missus mentioned that fact a while ago on GMTV! That is a very risky thing to do and his only motivation in doing so would be because he was an Evertonian. No detached 'businessman' would dream of doing that for no financial reward to himself.
If I hear the allegation once more about the subsidised travel to and from the game that he enjoys (if he does, where's the evidence) while ignoring the fact that he doesn't take a salary from the club I will not be responsible for the consequent verbal violence.
Criticize BK for excelling at his talent for exaggeration and I will agree with you.
Criticize BK for not being as rich as we would like him to be and I will agree that, yes, it's a pity he's no Abramovich.
Tell us he is not the best chairman of a football club who has ever lived and I must concur.
But tell me he is not a real Evertonian and doesn't give a fuck and I will call you an idiot and a liar. All those years ago when we were just a few minutes away from going down, I was close enough to Bill Kenwright to see how pallid and distressed he was. When we were saved, I remember him raising his arms to the sky and thanking the gods. If nothing else he is an Evertonian.
What ever else he is or he is not....he is an Evertonian and I do wonder how it is that posters have been censured in the past for disclaiming other's Evertonian credentials. Yet it seems ok to doubt those of Bill Kenwright and to suggest his pleasure at defeating Chelsea was feigned and insincere??
Doesn't make sense to me.
40 Posted 13/05/2011 at 12:22:49
41 Posted 13/05/2011 at 12:24:44
Good post. It highlights a common and inevitable feature on TW. Posts lead by the heart or emotions can sometimes ignore facts, whereas some prefer to be more critical or precise in their thinking.
I agree with your analysis of BK and have never doubted his blue credentials (critisising him for missing a game is just silly) but would also add, fundamentally, that there appears little evidence of him actively seeking a replacement owner for the club, nor has he been clear about whether he is prepared to give up control should an alternative option present itself. It strikes me that he's looking for a funder rather than a new owner.
42 Posted 13/05/2011 at 12:39:13
I'm not sure you're presumption that someone would buy us for £1 is correct. Effectively, they would be buying a lot of debt, needing to invest a lot more and with very little chance of making any profit from it.
I really don't think it is fair to blame BK for his lack of deep pockets and/or the reluctance of investors to come out of the woodwork.
43 Posted 13/05/2011 at 12:50:43
44 Posted 13/05/2011 at 13:11:51
I'm certainly no fan of Bill Kenwright yet I have to agree with the majority of what you have said here; personal attacks on BK, a fellow blue, are unwarranted.
However, you really need to have a word with yourself regarding the contents of paragraph three. Like Gavin has said, mortgaging his house for Everton? I don't think so; Robert Elstone, who in my experience will give you a straight answer to a straight question, confirmed that not one of the directors had invested a penny into Everton Football Club, not one single penny. Notwithstanding the fact that property prices in London are considerably higher than in Liverpool you're not suggesting that BK actually raised his £7.5m stake against his house are you? He borrowed the money, for what is simply a personal investment, from Anita Gregg, she was repaid from money obtained from a source I think we can all guess.
BK shouldn't be castigated for being an Evertonian and genuinely, as a fan, wanting Everton to succeed; what he should he tackled on is his failures and standing by whilst the club was being sold down the river in what was little more than a grubby property scam; for this he should have been chased out of the boardroom years ago.
45 Posted 13/05/2011 at 13:09:16
So fucking what? I'm an Evertonian but that's not the only credential you need to run this club now is it?
46 Posted 13/05/2011 at 14:20:25
47 Posted 13/05/2011 at 14:41:14
48 Posted 13/05/2011 at 14:29:17
There is no excuse for going down the very slippery 'Everton Credentials' path. Questioning the motivations and commitment of those involved is fraught with danger. Unfortunately in these arguments, "doing the best for the club" ? a phrase used liberally by Kenwright and his cohorts ? muddies the waters aplenty.
Bottom Line is Evertonians have always ? and no doubt will always ? clash over the way the club is run. But it should never be an excuse for throwing around this 'credentials' crap.
49 Posted 13/05/2011 at 16:27:23
To Colin Fitzpatrick et al...err....I do mention his failures actually, quite specifically, so I don't know what you are talking about. The point I was making was that his failures as Chairman do not entitle us to impugn his 'credentials' as an Evertonian which was the point of my post.
Assertive statements concerning crocodile tears, subsidised travel costs and free tickets are not evidenced and demonstrate only that all is fair game when some of us have identified who our 'culprit' is.
50 Posted 13/05/2011 at 18:17:43
51 Posted 13/05/2011 at 18:59:28
52 Posted 13/05/2011 at 22:30:05
I think Sean's original point was that, if Kenwright was such an Evertonian as he claims to be, he would be more reasonable in generating a sale which would allow much needed funds to be introduced to the club unlike his alleged "deal" with Earl and Green to rip the heart out of EFC via a moneymaking property scam.
One of the other positive suggestions Sean made was to sell naming rights on bricks which is not new but certainly a positive.
As regards the "I remortgaged my house to rescue my beloved club" line, I think that was totally disproven years ago and it was insinuated that the coincidence between paying Johnson £20 million and the club's debts rising by £20 million meant the club had effectively paid for Kenwright's shares.
Now before Kenwright's luvvies go on the attack, I am just stating the circumstances ? not claiming it is true but do you still believe in Father Xmas because how else do you get £20 million of shareholding when you're only worth £1 million???
53 Posted 14/05/2011 at 09:55:47
Apologies, I obviously haven't explained myself well. You've stated,
"As for him not putting any of his own money into the club, it is well known that he re-mortgaged his house to buy up Johnson's stake. Even his missus mentioned that fact a while ago on GMTV! That is a very risky thing to do and his only motivation in doing so would be because he was an Evertonian."
You're under the illusion that this is an investment in Everton, that he has put money into the club; once again, it isn't, he hasn't invested a single penny to date, this is simply a personal investment from which Everton has derived no benefit and the source of which, in my opinion, he is completely entitled to declare as private UNLESS it is Philip Green . This is because if it is Philip Green, having paid for all of the shares registered in the name of BCR sports, would appear to have influence over 49% of the clubs shares and be playing the role of an undeclared shadow director in influencing the policy of the club and therefore contrary to the rules governing the premiership.
I've mentioned his failures as it is these that he should be remembered for, as they are real, and not some mythical benevolent philanthropist, for Everton, which he certainly is not.
54 Posted 14/05/2011 at 12:26:18
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.