Why dont we give ex-blue Davey Jones the chance to manage his home town club? He's done well at other clubs and imagine how well he could do at a club that he supports and played for.
Above all else, he will understand the supporters -- unlike Celtic supporter Moyes!
Paul Holmes, Posted 18/05/2011 at 09:31:19
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1 Posted 18/05/2011 at 14:51:26
2 Posted 18/05/2011 at 14:55:58
3 Posted 18/05/2011 at 14:53:23
Obviously he never got to finish out with Southampton due to the child abuse allegations but he wasn't exactly doing great there pre the allegations, if memory serves.
He has failed to get Cardiff promoted 3 times now after spending quite a bit of their cash. I am all for the idea there is the perfect Evertonian out there to manage us but let's be realistic: we need a miracle worker ? not an average manager with an average record.
In any case, Moyes is making a lot of cash being our manager. I cannot see him walking out on the remainder of his contract. He will continue to make threats but he will never follow through. Going to Villa would be a like-for-like job ? they are in a similar predicement to us. If he was to leave, I doubt we could afford anyone big or decent.
4 Posted 18/05/2011 at 15:11:11
5 Posted 18/05/2011 at 15:11:13
Be interesting to see if Moyes did go to Villa and was backed by Learner with cash to rebuild, how he would get on.
6 Posted 18/05/2011 at 15:19:30
7 Posted 18/05/2011 at 15:26:48
8 Posted 18/05/2011 at 15:37:17
Please don't ask me who the answer is, as I don't know the answer to that either.
Unless there is a world class manager with the surname answer, then he would be the answer...
I'm going for a lie down.
9 Posted 18/05/2011 at 16:51:14
I also wouldn't base my appointment on who the individual supported or had previously played for.
But seriously, David Jones? In no way could you convince me that that would be a step anywhere but backwards.
10 Posted 18/05/2011 at 16:18:15
This club needs an infusion of enthusiasm, a breath of fresh air ? after Walter and Davey, surely we've had enough "woe is me" to last a lifetime???
Football folk who can't crack a smile despite all they have seem deficient in character to me.
I've said Martinez a few times... essentially he's one of the few managers at any level who's made a difference; he transformed Swansea (make no mistake, the play-off position is largely his work). His default is offensive rather than defensive football and, despite inheriting some real duffers from Steve Bruce and the impossible circumstances of Wigan, he hasn't sulked, gone hoofball, or given up.
11 Posted 18/05/2011 at 17:25:56
12 Posted 18/05/2011 at 17:25:50
For all the things that Moyes is or isn't, if he moves on, it's a tough job to pick up and Jones certainly isn't the man to do it. I don't know who would be brave enough to do it.
Taking over at Everton is virtually a lose/lose situation for a manager... there are zero guarantees that a new manager would be any good, he will have nothing to spend (except 75k per week saved on DM's salary) and he has to follow Moyes who, wether you like him or not, has plaudits thrown at him regularly.
Taking Everton to the level above means a top-4 challenge each season. Plus, the expectations of the fans means the chances of 'success' at Everton for a new manager are minimal. I certainly can't think of a manager who I would be prepared to bet on taking Everton forward within the current parameters of the job.
13 Posted 18/05/2011 at 17:36:39
Am I missing something here? Has David Moyes left or been sacked? If not, then the answer is because we currently have the manager who finishes top of the 'non extravagant spenders' every year.
Its absurd to think about getting rid of a manger for not 'hugely overachieving'.
14 Posted 18/05/2011 at 17:49:52
I've yet to hear anyone suggested who would do a better job than David Moyes. I know it's been frustrating under him recently but he's the best manager for the club in present circumstances.
15 Posted 18/05/2011 at 18:07:13
16 Posted 18/05/2011 at 18:42:05
The six clubs above us are pulling away because of their spending power ? not because our manager isn't good enough to take us higher. Would Shitteh be in the top four and FA Cup Winners if they had £1 million a year to spend instead of the £400 million they have spent over the last few years?
Moyes was getting Everton better and better on a modest budget and then the money just stopped and we are drifting behind teams now instead of keeping up with them. His only option is to sell players to raise funds. This means in order to add players to our team we have to first make it significantly weaker so we are always taking one step backwards in order to take one step forwards. We end up staying the same as other teams are continually moving forward.
This is why I can believe he would go to a club like Villa. He may not get a huge budget there but he wouldn't have to sell to buy so he could feel he could constantly gradually improve his team each season.
It must be so frustrating to have built a half-decent team and be forced to watch it get dismantled bit by bit through players leaving for more money and Champions League. Also watching those who stay loyal to the cause getting older each season knowing we don't have the money from their sale to replace them once their legs go...
17 Posted 18/05/2011 at 18:59:41
When Davey goes then we should be looking for some fun at Goodison, you know... free-flowing attacking football. 5-4 to the toffees is better than the laboured and tired slow mechanical stuff we play.
18 Posted 18/05/2011 at 19:11:11
19 Posted 18/05/2011 at 19:31:50
If Moyes ever left, that he won't, there are loads of managers before him:
20 Posted 18/05/2011 at 19:58:25
21 Posted 18/05/2011 at 20:02:23
I'd love Martinez.
Can't see Gus Poyet leaving cosmopolitan Brighton for the north.
22 Posted 18/05/2011 at 20:05:59
23 Posted 18/05/2011 at 20:07:47
Somewhat harsh. After getting Preston promoted to the Championship, Moyes got them to the play-off final the very next season. The next season he came us. Hardly 'failure' by any means.
24 Posted 18/05/2011 at 20:26:13
25 Posted 18/05/2011 at 20:26:59
26 Posted 18/05/2011 at 20:34:25
27 Posted 18/05/2011 at 21:15:09
I just don't see why we need a new manager ? the only reason given seems to be to play some champagne football. Pretty hard to do that and be successful without plenty of cash though...
28 Posted 18/05/2011 at 21:41:16
29 Posted 18/05/2011 at 22:31:19
Dave Jones, as someone pointed, he should be sacked for failing at Cardiff
Roberto Martinez??????? Have you seen where Wigan are in the league? Steve Bruce did a better job there and he's appalling!
Only manager I'd take is Gus Poyet but I've been saying that for ages now.
30 Posted 18/05/2011 at 22:27:57
It's imbecilic to believe that we can push on to be a top 4 club without significant investment. Upto the start of this season we're number 10 in the Premier spending league and I would guess lower than that in the last 3yrs. Chelski have a net spend of over £366 mil, Citeh £300mil, The Redshite £200mil, Spurs £176mil... I could go on. US £54mil thats £146mil less than Liverpool who will finish this season 1 maybe 2 places above us or Spurs who've spent £122mil more.
Imagine injecting say £100mil into our present team then if Moyes fucks up slag him off and go for a no-mark done-nowt like Jones... just because he's a blue.
31 Posted 18/05/2011 at 23:14:08
We are skint, Moyes is doing well just to keep us where we are and I think he'll be with us a lot longer than most think on this site. I just hope he finally gets lucky with a striker or two so we can challenge the more monied clubs.
32 Posted 18/05/2011 at 23:29:47
33 Posted 18/05/2011 at 23:25:06
It's worth quoting Iains spending facts.
Moaning about not having enough attacking prowess (and a manager not smiling enough!) is inconsequential when you see the blindingly obvious reason why we're not a top four team.
We have a manager who does more with a limited budget than any other.
34 Posted 18/05/2011 at 23:55:58
35 Posted 19/05/2011 at 02:51:33
Confusing. Moyes may have played for Celtic during his career and have an affinity for the club, but I doubt very much he would be classed as a 'supporter', coming as he does from the 'other' side of Glasgow.
If BK sacks Moyes and appoints Dave Jones the end really will be nigh.
36 Posted 19/05/2011 at 07:48:24
37 Posted 19/05/2011 at 08:55:47
"Surely, you can't be serious?"
38 Posted 19/05/2011 at 09:06:17
39 Posted 19/05/2011 at 12:45:34
40 Posted 19/05/2011 at 12:42:59
41 Posted 19/05/2011 at 13:29:52
Christ I'm glad this season's nearly over - some of the names mentioned on here are just incredible. Martinez? Holloway? Why not Grant, Kean and McLeish to complete the set of downwardly mobile managers.
And Venables for fecks sake! Are we opening a cabaret bar?
Last time I looked Moyes was going nowhere and if he does I want a manager to replace him not a soddin' supporter. Did old baconface support United before he headed South?
Let's get back to talking about players who we have no chance of signing in the summer with money we haven't got. Will a new manager change that? Thought not.
I think I need a lie down.
42 Posted 19/05/2011 at 13:47:44
Sure Moyes isn't the greatest and his decisions baffle me constantly but the suggestions on here 95% of the time are plainly ridiculous!
However, I feel Poyet will be a brilliant manager and I'd love to see him at Everton. But, as the poster above put, I can actually see Dave Jones being appointed as he's big mates with Kenwright.
43 Posted 19/05/2011 at 14:57:14
44 Posted 19/05/2011 at 14:29:37
Moyes has, if you included this season, ten league finishes under his belt as Everton manager. If you include this season as a 7th or 8th place finish, Moyes has a mean average of 9th & a bimodal average of 5th & 7th or 8th (dependent on this seasons finish) for league finishes. During this time period we have gained entry into the Europa League on two occasions, been runners up in the FA Cup, lost a Champions League Qualifier & lost two Europa League Qualifiers.
The ten league finishes prior to Moyes, Everton have had few managers I shall not name & shame but we have not done as bad as one might have thought. We have a mean average of 14th, as well as a tri-modal average of 13th 15th 17th for league finishes. During this period we won the FA Cup & the Charity Shield; we also made an appearance in the Cup Winners Cup.
I would prefer the ten seasons prior to Moyes, Moyes does win on the League mean average finishes 9th & 14th but in my opinion the Europa League is a joke & the Cup Winners Cup was a far better competition. I also would swap Moyes?s strong bimodal average for a low tri-modal average & a couple of cups, even if the Charity Shield was one of them; trophies are all that matter.
It is worth taking into account if Everton are tenth in the overall top spenders in the Premier League, Moyes has not excelled with his mean average of finishes as some people seem to conclude & the ten seasons prior we did not massively underachieve, although we should have done better, considering most people recognise a direct correlation between spending and league finishes.
The only stone left unturned in my mind is how much of a backing did the previous managers have in comparison to Moyes? ? ie, over each ten-year period, where does our spending land in a table? My assumption is that Moyes over the last ten seasons has had more backing than the managers in the previous ten seasons before him. I wonder if they could have improved their average league finishes if they had a reasonable backing like Moyes, such as Joe Royle being able to sign Flo, etc?
45 Posted 19/05/2011 at 15:28:36
"Essentially he's one of the few managers at any level who's made a difference."
You're right, he's certainly made a difference at Wigan. Steve Bruce had a win ratio of just over 35%. Senor Martinez has brought that down to just 25%.
And Moyes at Everton ? just over 41%. But, hey rather a smiling failure than our very own misery guts.
46 Posted 19/05/2011 at 16:07:07
Moyes should only ever go if someone better could take over. None of the suggestions in this thread are better. Some are like for like but I don't think any of them are better. The problem we have is there is no-one better whilst we're in such a shite financial position. However, if a billionaire did take over, I'd want Moyes out like a shot because better managers would then be available.
47 Posted 19/05/2011 at 17:39:59
48 Posted 19/05/2011 at 17:35:56
49 Posted 19/05/2011 at 16:53:42
There's a riposte about statistics, lies etc as there is about pissing against the wind so I won't bother.
Admittedly comparing Swansea and Everton is not comparing apples with apples but I'd argue the same about comparisons with Wigan ? particularly after Bruce ? did he sign Titus Bramble?
My endorsement of Martinez is based upon his ability to actually make a marked positive difference to a club as he did at Swansea as well as more prosaic factors like he might be cheap and lives in the area!
I can think of only Coyle at Burnley and latterly Bolton, Tony Pulis at Stoke and Ian Holloway at Blackpool who have risen similarly to their individual challenges. Other names popularly raised ? Poyet and Lambert represent teams I haven't seen.
If Moyes is your man, I know there's no changing... but I see no imminent financial change at Everton and consequently no change under Moyes and, being brutal about it, I'm bored shitless with it all.
I would like us to gamble now. To attempt to rid ourselves of the fear surrounding the club; for that, we need the polar opposite of the Moyes mindset. If not Martinez then someone of that ilk, a believer in creativity and all the risks that go with it.
We are selfish if we just hang on to Prem survival and offer no challenge ? we may justify this era with that solitary aim ? but it is the glory that success, or at least attempting to succeed, brings the next generation of fans, and we should be mindful of that.
People of the Wirral, North Wales, Cheshire and the surrounding areas have become fans of Everton and Liverpool rather than Tranmere for one simple reason: at heart, we're all glory hunters.
50 Posted 19/05/2011 at 18:40:37
I have long wanted Moyes to go but have come round to the view that he should go, amicably, by choice and with the respect of Evertonians. In other words, Aston Villa should pay us compensation and take him. This is where the gamble lies; Kenwright appointing a successor. Not a safe pair of hands ? Reid, Jones, Royle etc ? but a gamble: Hoddle. Lambert or Poyet. Tread water and slowly drown... or go for it.
51 Posted 19/05/2011 at 20:34:11
You get more befuddled by the day lad.
You say you're throwing your hand in next season because you don't like Moyes`s style of play, in fact you have moaned like fuck all season for him to go... now you can't think of anyone better. Not like you to do a complete U-turn at the drop of a hat.
The guy who gets your seat will feel like he`s on the Waltzers.
52 Posted 19/05/2011 at 20:55:39
All season, I've been slating the whole fucking set up at Everton. I will continue to slate the whole set up. The board are ruining us, the manager is dour and defensive and the football on display is crap to watch. The fans are apathetic and don't seem to give a shit.
I don't think my stance has changed. As long as we have no money, there's no point in changing the manager. All the suggestions on this thread show it's either shit for shit or shit for even shitter. BUT if by some miracle a billionaire takes over, we'll be able to attract a top manager and I would very happily wave Moyes off.
53 Posted 19/05/2011 at 21:27:44
I said if Moyes fucked off we could do worse than Glen Hoddle, not quite the same... and you won't find a post where I call Moyes a great manager ? you made that up. I just dont buy the ridiculous claims that he is responsible for all our problems.
I`ve been saying all season that Moyes should stay as long as Kenwrght is here; it's called consistency. Nice to see your finally turned a full 360 and you want him to stay too.
54 Posted 19/05/2011 at 21:21:47
These managers are people in a competitive business with the prospect of untold riches if they manage to manage in the higher leagues. To see them as "supporters" who have made good is preposterous. This talk of Everton needing a "true blue" has bedevilled this debate for too long. Mr Jones may well be in danger of becoming a contemporary successor to the ludicrous past suggestions such as Peter Reid!!
If there has to be a change of manager ? as there must be at SOME time in the future then please let us inject a note of realistic, yet demanding criteria. Who the said person might be is beyond my compass but I would hope and pray that it would be someone with managerial/coaching talents, degrees of experience and success in related areas; a commitment to the enhancement of the game and a desire to serve his employers to the best of that ability and to help the club progress and be successful across a number of important areas and to take the club as a whole beyond the levels in which he found it.
Obviously a particular quality would be that he has an insight into, and respect for, the culture, historical traditions, and aspirations of the particular club but that quality by no means necessarily demands that he have been part of that club in the past or be related to it today. When you are paying obscene amounts of money to these people you want a little more than him being a 'native" of the city or a "supporter"!
55 Posted 19/05/2011 at 22:57:07
The difference between Moyes and Ferguson the last 10 years is money. So, switch the two since Moyes came to EFC; personnel and circumstance unchanged. Explain (and make it good) how the fortunes of EFC and Man Utd would be substantially different.
Managers are waaaaaay over-rated. Moyes and Ferguson are two who make a difference.
Ferguson, 10 years ago, says he's had enough managing the best-run soccer-club on earth. Needs a new challenge. "It's Everton or retirement" says he. Man Utd thanks him for his service and Merseyside he goes.
"This Moyes fellow looks promising. Let's try him," comes the word from Man Utd. He's hired.
Man Utd would still be passing the Shite this season (if not sooner). And EFC would still be "Punching above its weight".
Moyes is one of the handful of managers (any sport, anywhere) who matters.
We need money, not a new manager.
56 Posted 20/05/2011 at 01:55:50
57 Posted 20/05/2011 at 09:14:51
I disagree, I suspect Moyes would be in the Alan Hansen camp of "you win nothing with kids" ? I just couldn't see him letting promising kids en masse into any team.
Ferguson would have snapped them up for £50 each and we'd be going to Wembley to play Barca.
You are half right ? SOME managers are overrated.
58 Posted 20/05/2011 at 09:04:54
I just don't see changing to a weaker horse mid-stream as necessarily a wise move. A drop to the Championship would in my mind be catastrophic for this club. God only knows when we'd get back.
Lambert and Poyet have both done very well so far and I'd love to see Everton playing more stylish and progressive football, but they would still represent a risk.
I'm old enough to remember the great days of the 80s so I'm certainly not comfortable with ambling along in 7th place or thereabouts.
Your phrase about 'ridding ourself of the fear' is well made and a thought I have talked about before with my son who's view is that it may be smarter to keep Moyes and bring in a stronger, possibly continental Number Two with a far more attacking outlook, rather than a 'Yes' guy who basically seems like a Moyes clone, Steve Round.
This is probably more do-able than removing Moyes which I can't see Kenwright doing any time soon. Let's face it, unless big money arrives on a white charger, is anything going to change? I've said on another thread that we need something major to happen soon, that this slow stagnation will ultimately end up with the same result as taking the risk you advocate above ? it'll just take longer!
So, ultimately we probably want the same thing ? perhaps you're just less risk-averse than me when it comes to our football team.
Much as I'll sit at Goodison and enjoy hearing about the drama unfolding elsewhere on 'Survival Sunday', inside, I'll be very very happy that we're not involved.
59 Posted 20/05/2011 at 11:11:44
Gus Poyet has also worked wonders at Brighton, so I would take him.
This last one is a bit out of leftfield and I don't expect anyone to take it seriously as potential Everton candidate, but keep an eye out for Exeter City manager Paul Tidsdale. He's taken them from mid-table in the Conference right up to League One and this season, they've just had the highest league finish in their entire history, all the while playing expansive attacking football. He achieved it this year amidst the tragic death of their No 9, Adam Stansfield. I only mention it as my Exeter-based brother-in-law lives in a constant fear of him being snapped up by someone else!
60 Posted 20/05/2011 at 13:17:18
In my eyes, Moyes supporters are the ones who voted for Kirkby although you will not find many now who would own up to it.
61 Posted 20/05/2011 at 18:01:25
Way to go David, tell these young uns like it really is!
62 Posted 23/05/2011 at 17:31:03
63 Posted 24/05/2011 at 07:12:13
Cardiff City supporters who booed their team and were taunting David Jones should be ashamed. He has taken that club within touching distance of the Premier League ? the closest they have ever been to the top flight in over 40 years. If they do part company with David Jones then watch Cardiff City sink like a stone.
As a potential Everton manager, yes, I think David Jones would do a very good job. He has shown that he can cope with pressure, both in the game at a personal level, and he has shown great strength and dignity.
And as regards a good budget, I think you will find that Cardiff City didn't have one of the biggest transfer budgets in the Championship. The Bellamy loan was largely funded by the parent club Manchester City. David Jones has regularly had to cope with seeing his best players "courted " by bigger/richer clubs and, considering that, he has done extremely well to maintain Cardiff City as a force in that division.
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