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Moyes and Yakubugate

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Did anyone read the extremely interesting article in today's Guardian about Avram Grant?

There were a number of quotes from a source close to Grant and, aside from the allegations that West Ham offered the manager's job to six people in January ? the interesting stuff was the transfer dealings of West Ham.

It alleges that West Ham offered Everton £6M for Yakubu and Moyes demanded £10M... A few months later Moyes then lets Yakubu go to Leicester for nothing on loan.

Moyes has shown himself to be a tactically inept buffoon but his credibility and position must be questioned if this is true and his judgment has cost the club £6M.

If he valued him at £10M then why let him leave for nothing and keep a goal-shy Anichebe?

I think Kenwright should be calling a taxi for Dithering Dave immediately.

Ian Edwards, Liverpool     Posted 18/05/2011 at 19:07:45

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Paul Knox
1   Posted 18/05/2011 at 20:26:15

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The Moyes camp won't like that, now will people believe.
Steven Hepworth
2   Posted 18/05/2011 at 20:28:32

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Ahhh, the good old 'a source close to...' quotes. Almost as reliable as 'a club insider says...'

But we woudn't want facts to get in the way of another good old 'Moyes out' rant would we!
Pat Finegan
3   Posted 18/05/2011 at 20:40:51

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This is undoubtedly Moyes's weakness. The same thing happened with Pienaar. That cost the club £12mil. Fact is, though, if we had some investment, this wouldn't even be a problem. Until then, we could do much worse than David Moyes.
Steve Guy
4   Posted 18/05/2011 at 20:46:46

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Not sure if I'm more worried that Moyes under this premise actually does the deals. He's a football coach not a negotiator; once he decides he wants shut of a player someone else should surely do the deal who is a commercial expert? How naive?

The management of the Club is appalling in the general so why would transfer dealings be any different?

Robert Johnson
5   Posted 18/05/2011 at 20:38:19

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All the Moyes apologists will be rallying around our troubled manager to justify his continued presence at our football club.

I say troubled, because he still hasn't got a fucking clue after all this time in charge of one of the proudest football clubs in the country.

His only thoughts are of negativity and not to get beat, he's terrified to to just fucking go for it, against shite teams and I'm fucking sick of him now.

I've nothing personal against him, i just want a manager that will send a team out to attack.

Is that too much to ask for? After all, this is Everton Football Club. 1878

Peter Carroll
6   Posted 18/05/2011 at 20:54:24

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If he had sold Yakubu for £6 million, you would accuse him of being weak...
Jon Beck
7   Posted 18/05/2011 at 21:09:46

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I believe everything I read in the newspapers, now who are we signing today?
Jamie Tulacz
8   Posted 18/05/2011 at 21:06:29

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All very well to say with hindsight, but don't think that many of us would have taken £6m for the Yak last summer with a loss of £5m, I certainly wouldn't. Especially on form one of our best strikers and we might not have got anyone in to replace him. No one was really to know anyway that he wouldn't regain his form and fitness, as he'd only just come back from injury.

Don't quite understand how Moyes has lost us £6m since Yak will be back with us once his loan is done anyway. And if we do sell him presumably we'll get at least £2m and maybe up to £4-5m for him.

Could anyone tell me in a game dominated by money nowadays, which team finishing above us has less money to spend than us?
Brian Lawlor
9   Posted 18/05/2011 at 21:22:47

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So clubs accept the first offer they get for a player and one that is half of what they paid? Should we have let Phil Neville go for £1 mill? Should we have accepted City's first offer of £15 mill for Lescott? Er... no. Have you ever heard of negotiations? West Ham obviously weren't that keen on Yakubu.
Al Reddish
10   Posted 18/05/2011 at 21:28:07

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I must have missed the story where we were offered £15m for Pienaar.
Paul Wharton
11   Posted 18/05/2011 at 21:30:49

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The biggest crime from Mr Moyes that we all forget is that he never played one forward at West Ham; they were on the bench... and he says we have no money? Fact not fiction.
Aiden Doyle
12   Posted 18/05/2011 at 21:35:55

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Sorry Ian, but that article tells me more about you than it does about Moyes.
Gavin Ramejkis
13   Posted 18/05/2011 at 21:03:34

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If Moyes had no intention of playing Yakubu as it turns out he did then you should all be asking the question why not sell him and cut your losses? A player sat on the bench and never played may as well not be at the club, waste of money we could get by selling him and justification of wages for fuck all in return is business suicide. Whether it was £6m or £5m doesn't bloody matter, it's lost money and a chance missed to replace him before the season started.

Everyone and his dog realised Pienaar was angling for a move so why the fuck not swallow your pride Moyes and transfer list him?
Jamie Barlow
14   Posted 18/05/2011 at 22:22:32

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I can't believe you read the article in The Guardian and the thing that struck you was how Moyes lost us £6 million. Doesn't it seem strange that when they didn't come close to our valuation of him first time round, they then came back with a bid of £2 million. It's all nonsense. Didn't we get a £1 million fee for the loan of Yakubu anyway? Plus what we'll sell him for. You might be surprised what we get for him.
Jay Harris
15   Posted 18/05/2011 at 22:46:18

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I am sure West Ham denied they offered £6 million and suggested it was £3 million (£2 million down and the rest on the drip).

When Moyes tested their resolve they came back stating that he wasn't good enough for them and was only worth about £1 million.

Moyes does not do the deals anyway. He just recommends players and fights to keep players that we get enquiries for.

Do you honestly think Moyes would have got any of the money Yakubu would have brought in to replace him? That is what is wrong at the club. It is like Families at War. Earl and Green wanting their pound of flesh back and Moyes fighting to hold the players together.
Tony J Williams
16   Posted 18/05/2011 at 22:54:12

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It's in the Guardian, therefore it must be true. Was it from the fella who fixes the fridges at Finch Farm?
Dick Anderson
17   Posted 18/05/2011 at 23:21:18

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He wasn't dithering when he said no to the £6 million.

Damn Moyes for trying to get more money for Everton. Sack that bastard how dare he try to bring more money into the club.
John Ford
18   Posted 18/05/2011 at 23:19:18

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Another get Moyes out article from another myopic fan. It could be a long summer on Toffeeweb.

See you in August.
Ian Tunstead
19   Posted 18/05/2011 at 23:28:47

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Ian, get the facts right before you make a fool of your self mate. Moyes knows what he is doing and will get the best deal for Everton, don't you worry about that.
Robbie Muldoon
20   Posted 18/05/2011 at 23:50:29

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It's called DITHERING DAVEY! And is a trait of our great manager that is even acknowledged by Preston fns!
Brendan O'Doherty
21   Posted 19/05/2011 at 02:07:51

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"It alleges that West Ham offered Everton £6M for Yakubu.."

Allegations. Don't ya just love 'em!

It's "alleged" we offered £12m for Manny Fernandes a while back.

Only an allegation, mind you.

Certainly NOT anything to do with Chairmen attempting to appease supporters, definitely NOT.

Wonderful bunch these Chairmen. Like sacking their manager 5 minutes after a game. What class. Couldn't even wait until the next morning such was their desire to be seen being decisive.

"We offered Everton £6m but they turned it down because they wanted £10m." This coming from these extremely questionable individuals in charge at WHU. The people who said that Avram Grant was "always the number 1 choice" after Martin O'Neill had the sense to turn them down.

And it's all our manager's fault mind you, nothing to do with the CEO.

'Fraid you've been sucked in there Ian. I know who I believe.
Dan Roy
22   Posted 19/05/2011 at 02:29:37

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Errr, Robert Johnson, Ian Holloway's not afraid to have his team go out and attack -- in fact, they've most likely attacked themselves right back to the Championship.

Moyes isn't perfect by any means, but no manager is. Considering the (lack of) resources at his disposal, and the money that clubs like City and Spurs have spent, what he's managed to do at the club is miraculous. I can't imagine anyone better for Everton than Moyes. For that matter, I can't imagine a better club for Moyes than Everton.
Jamie Sweet
23   Posted 19/05/2011 at 04:22:01

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Dan #21 doesn't Moyes bore you though? He's a good man doing a good job, but his tactics have taken much of the joy out of watching Everton for me.

Holloway has a squad of predominantly Championship standard players, and made them one of the most entertaining teams to watch in the league.

Moyes, to his credit, has built a very talented squad. But his safety first approach sucks the life out of them. It really is depressing to watch at times.

If you're happy with dull functionality then good for you.

Are you an accountant?
Chris Bannantyne
24   Posted 19/05/2011 at 04:33:16

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Haha "Are you an accountant?"

Good call.
John Maxwell
25   Posted 19/05/2011 at 05:43:39

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Kenwright will never call for a cab for Moyes, mainly because he can't afford it!
Paul Gladwell
26   Posted 19/05/2011 at 07:01:59

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Ah. Don't believe those pesky newspapers lads, they talk shite ? the same papers who told us Rooney was going to Utd when Moyes and our chairman where using quotes of over my dead body and £50M; the same papers who told us about Lescott when the same fellas were telling us he is going nowhere; the same papers who told us about Pienaar months before; and the same ones telling us about Rodwell etc now.

They may spout shit but they tell more truth than the liars at our club ? and didn't Moyes himself tell us he had turned down that fee for the Yak?

Dave Wilson
27   Posted 19/05/2011 at 07:04:10

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"Moyes has shown himself to be a tactically inept buffoon" ... who to?

Ancelloti? Mancini? Redknap? Dalgliesh?Or maybe your referring to all those managers that were thrown up as "superior taticians"... but who have failed to finish above him ? again.

Moyes will be here for life if the best his opponents can do is start their damning indictments with a compelling "if true".

"Tactically inept"? I cringe when I hear somebody who has never so much as ran a works 5-a-side team getting all Malcolm Allison in an attempt to criticise Moyes.
Ray Roche
28   Posted 19/05/2011 at 07:56:28

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Paul Gladwell

It's a good job that those pesky newspapers were correct... we trousered between £45m-£50m for the sale of those two. Probably saved the club. Let's hope those pesky newspapers can engineer £25m for Rodders...
Jason Heng
29   Posted 19/05/2011 at 07:56:43

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So if Yakubu was sold for 6 million, would Moyes be a buffoon for not insisting on 10?
Steve Pugh
30   Posted 19/05/2011 at 08:40:39

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For those of you who didn't watch the Alan Sugar thing the other week, he talked to Harry Redknapp who quite clearly stated that managers have nothing to do with negotiations when buying or selling players, or renegotiating contracts. He couldn't even tell you the wage levels of any player at the club. He openly admitted that he knows about football ? not finance... and I'd bet that Moyes is the same.
Tony J Williams
31   Posted 19/05/2011 at 08:54:52

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When reading these Moyes Out type posts, it strikes me as funny when all the so called apologists offer their opinions. I guess I am classed as an apologist so I will say when WE discuss topics we usually add, "we know he has his faults" etc etc and mention things that annoy us.

Getting back to the point, the anti Moyes group have their one-track mind, use the "tactically inept" line, "Dithering Dave" etc but not very often do the rabid bunch counteract their views with a "then again, at least he did this well".

Sorry Lads, just an observation, don't want to start another, Monthy Pythonesque "We don't give a feck" type of post.

Paul Gladwell
32   Posted 19/05/2011 at 08:57:25

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Too true Ray, with a bit of luck they encourage it to be City, as if he goes to Utd we will probably get £5M up front and the rest paid over a 10-year period with Scholes coming to us the year after next.
Jamie Sweet
33   Posted 19/05/2011 at 10:52:57

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Tony 30 - I was once in the "apologist" camp (and man did I hate that label!) You will see in my earlier post I start a sentence with "Moyes, to his credit"... so I guess I get my style from my days of apologism, and I trust you approve.

Bottom line though... Moyes and his style of football bores me to tears. I don't blame anyone for believing he does a good job though ? because he does... to a point. I just happen to think we could play a much better brand of football and I think the fact that we don't is down to the gaffer.
Tony J Williams
34   Posted 19/05/2011 at 11:06:12

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I fully agree Jamie, but where I differ from others is that I don't think our team is good enough for the pretty Arsenal type of footy.

We tried it at the start of the season and we looked good, bossed possession........and lost, many times.

We get back to what we were good at, stop leaking goals and ugly footy. Yes it bores me and I hate it but until we can go out and afford a Yaya Toure, Tevez, Silva, De Jong type of midfield of our own, I will expect us to have a few "good" games a season but ultimately be disappointed becasue even the Stokes, Blackburns and shockingly Blackpools of the league are outspending us on players.
Kevin Gillen
35   Posted 19/05/2011 at 11:25:42

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Nobody is bigger than the club. I like Moyes and think he has worked miracles to have us in the top ten in the Premier League on our budget. The six teams above us this year have vastly greater resources than ours. Only Villa below us have a higher turnover and their wage bill is over 80% of their turnover. Ours is apparently 60% of our turnover so we've improved considerably in managing wages.

There is an excellent pdf on Premier League club finances in the Guardian today. I wonder if it is time for Moyes to move on. I like his approach. I know it's frustrating for fans. He is cautious and incremental and it doesn't buy many headlines.

Nobody can accuse him of not being committed to our cause though and some of the comments from fans are over the top in calling for his head. I think if we got investment he would take us to the top echelons of our sport. That is where I see the problem and I'll continue to defend him. Overall you can't argue with his transfer dealings in my humble opinion.

Liam Reilly
36   Posted 19/05/2011 at 12:48:42

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Incredible posting this:

Transfers are negotiations of assets; therefore if someone offers 6 miliion and you want 8; then you ask for 10. Its not rocket science.

Looking at some of the above posts; I'd certainly enter negotiations on some of your assets, where the first bid is duly accepted.
Daniel A Johnson
37   Posted 19/05/2011 at 13:21:46

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Moyes tough stance of transfers is fair enough..............if you are a rich club.

But he should also have his business head on as were skint.

Pineaar
Gosling
Yakubu

How much cash has slipped through the net with the above 3?
Sam Hoare
38   Posted 19/05/2011 at 13:26:37

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Yeah because Moyes is responsible for negotiations!!!

Jesus, you haters are unbelievable.
Alan Clarke
39   Posted 19/05/2011 at 13:25:34

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There is only one club that pays for transfers up front and that is Man City. West ham will not have offered £6 million in cash. Like someone has already said it will have been £2 million plus the rest as add ons and bonuses depending on performances, goals, reaching finals etc.

Moyes will have thought last summer that Yakubu might still offer us something and £2 million wasn't worth it to sell him. As it turns out, Yakubu is a fat lazy bastard who had no intention of putting any effort in hence why Moyes binned him out on loan. In reality, it's likely some club at the top of the championship or one of the promoted clubs will still pay £2million West ham were actually trying to pay.

If we want to hang Moyes out, lets stick to cticising his shite tactics and defensive mentality, not the fact he didn't sell a player of low value quite when he should have done.
Tony J Williams
40   Posted 19/05/2011 at 13:32:34

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No one initially bid for Pienaar, No one bid for Gosling and Wet Spam bid £3m for Yak.

So I would say that we haven't lost much because we made our money back, transfer wise, on Pienaar because he wouldn't sign a new contract and was looking to go for free at the end of the season.

Gosling, no-one was interested in him until he could leave on a free, not a very good player and his 3 minutes of Premiership play time since becoming fit shows that.

Yak, he is still on our books so haven't lost anything yet because he hasn't been sold.

So in a twisted illogical way we are up from the Pienaar transfer fee.
Gavin Ramejkis
41   Posted 19/05/2011 at 13:29:42

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The point is if the manager has no mind whatsoever to play a player then why not sell him? Younger players may increase in value if they are playing and improve but an ageing player who Moyes watched look piss poor at the World Cup, miss a real sitter then for the majority of the season not play him at all over a striker who had not scored in nearly a year it MUST strike a chord that he is no longer in his plans, therefore you sell, he isn't going to make the money we paid for him as he is older, returned from a serious injury that only a few years ago would have ended his career. Some return on him is far more than waiting until the January transfer window to ship him out on loan, why not transfer list him in the summer? Why not put him available for loan in the summer? How much in wages per minute played has he cost Everton this season? Would the sale in the summer have afforded Moyes a cheaper younger striker or even a loan like Sturridge with a view to buy in the summer?

None of this is FM or rocket science either, it's bloody common sense.
Tony J Williams
42   Posted 19/05/2011 at 13:45:15

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It's only common sense when someone actually wants to buy the player. Not on on an occassion where a team puts in a derisory bid and then lower the initial derisory bid when rejected.
Bob Skelton
43   Posted 19/05/2011 at 13:52:39

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Let's see how much we get for him this summer...

It won't be £6million!
Tony J Williams
44   Posted 19/05/2011 at 13:57:15

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It wouldn't have been £6m last summer either Bob.

I will file that figure under the Saha and Besakitakiwaki (sp) figure too.
Sam Hoare
45   Posted 19/05/2011 at 14:13:13

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It's also been 'alleged' today that we might get the full fee back from Bily if we flog him to one of the Russian clubs. Now that's one rumour I hope is true!!

If we got £9M from Bily plus £8-10M from Yobo, Yak and Vaughan I'd be well chuffed!
Alan Clarke
46   Posted 19/05/2011 at 14:52:32

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Sam, so would Bill because Moyes wouldn't see a penny of it.
Tommy Byrne
47   Posted 19/05/2011 at 15:55:34

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If I remember correctly, the Yak was running into form and then got benched for an out-of-sorts Saha and we neveer saw him again. The Frenchman was unfit and it was 12 months between goals then he had a field day and hits 4 in one game ? the only fucking time Beckford and Saha featured up front as an attacking option.

All season the tactics have been shite, players out of position... I half expected Howard to be named as right back.

Don't get me started on Tony Hibbert... can't pass,can't cross, can't shoot... he was dreadful at WBA. Tony is in the same same league as Terry Darracott, the absolute worst player ever to pull on a blue shirt. Jimmy Case nutmegged him twice in the fucking penalty area before laying off to David Johnson to score.

Guy Hastings
48   Posted 19/05/2011 at 19:20:09

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Steve29
For those of you who didn't watch the Alan Sugar thing the other week, he talked to Harry Redknapp who quite clearly stated that managers have nothing to do with negotiations when buying or selling players, or renegotiating contracts. He couldn't even tell you the wage levels of any player at the club. He openly admitted that he knows about football ? not finance...

Please tell me that's the deep voice of profound sacrcasm on your part.
Gavin Ramejkis
49   Posted 19/05/2011 at 17:45:07

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Tony, neither he or Pienaar were officially listed available for transfer, West Ham made a bid to test the water. If either were transfer listed then their vermin agents would have been free to punt them around the various leagues for bids.

Alan, a big slice of anything out the door this summer if not all of it will disappear into Billy Bullshitter's black hole, the Pienaar money disappeared as did any loan fees and salary savings for Yobo, Yakubu and Vaughan and any others shipped out this season..
Gavin Ramejkis
50   Posted 19/05/2011 at 19:51:35

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Guy, maybe that's the line old melted wax face is going to use when he appears at court vs HM Inland Revenue. Can almost picture it:

Barrister for HM Crown ? "So Mr Rednapp, how would you care to explain the discrepancies and irregularities during your former employment as football managers at Southampton and Portsmouth football clubs?"

Harry the Spiv ? "Blimey guvnor, I'm just a respeccable rub-a-dub, knees up Mother Brown, apples and pears, Mary Poppins, footballin bloke wiv no idea whatsohevva about this money malarkey. Did ya not see me old china Sugar explain it all right as rain the uvva day?"

Lord Cuthbert Ponsenby Smythe III, leaning forward to the court usher ? "Fetch me my black head handkerchief please."
David Hallwood
51   Posted 19/05/2011 at 20:10:02

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Tony (#43) ? Besakitakiwaki? Have you been playing scrabble?
Alan Clarke
52   Posted 19/05/2011 at 20:52:35

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Tommy (46) - be careful what you say about Tony Hibbert on here. He's apparently a hero because he gives 100% and he's local.

I agree, the lad is utter shite. If we want to pick on Moyes, I don't think Yakubu is the reason to do it but constantly picking Hibbert is.
Jamie Sweet
53   Posted 19/05/2011 at 21:23:14

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Sam (#44) ? If we got what we paid back for Bily, I would definitely do the happy dance!
Chris Butler
54   Posted 19/05/2011 at 22:18:16

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The problem is with Moyes is that he could be a legendary manager if he could make a few changes. He's been generally going backwards since the Cup Final.

His awful tactics cost us the cup. He had an awful record against a average Liverpool side from 2004-2010. He has kept useless players like Arteta, Anichebe and Heitenga and let players like Vaughan, AJ and Pienaar leave. All the these players have shown effort.

His stupid favouritism towards Cahill, Arteta and Heitenga has really annoyed me. Letting Yakubu go was another huge mistake. Anichebe is proved that he's no better than James Vaughan, a fans' favourite. He scored 2 goals in 3 games last year then doesn't play at all. For fuck's sake bring the lad back, Moyes.

I'm sick of the boring football. The constant unbelieveable draws and waring thin. When we do attack the crowd respond and we get better results.

James Flynn
55   Posted 19/05/2011 at 22:16:22

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Dave (27) - (redundancy font) Thank you.

Every side's manager knows EFC is weak at finishing. Yet, we remain one of the toughest teams to defeat. Hmmmmm.

Here's one, let's swap our fellows up top this season with Man Utd's. Where would we and them be on the Table today?
Eugene Ruane
56   Posted 20/05/2011 at 07:34:46

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James (55) probably in the same position as Moyes would leave his new strikers on the bench and stick Cahill and Fellaini 'up top'.
Dave Wilson
57   Posted 20/05/2011 at 07:53:00

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"Moyes's awful tactics cost us the cup."

That has to be the single most pathetic claim made by Moyes`s critics.

Moyes got us past some of the best teams in Europe on route to that final and he did it by outmanouvering two managers who had won the champions league.

He lost his two most influential players before the final and had to face a Chelsea team full of world class individuals ? one that had been cheated out of the Champions League by desperate decisions when facing the all conquering Barca.

Anybody who sees a team containing players like Hibbert, Yobo, Cahill, Neville, Jacobson, Howard etc beaten by the odd goal by a team boasting: the best goalkeeper in the world; world class players like Essien and Cole; a center back that attracted a 50 million quid bid a few weeks later; arguably the world's best centre-forward... not to mention players like Lampard, Malouda... and still thinks we lost because our manager "got his tactics wrong" has the footballing knowledge of a goat.
Dave Rooney
58   Posted 20/05/2011 at 08:33:58

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Ian Edwards, David Moyes's record in the transefer market over 9 years has in my option been fantastic. Generally the first team players who have left the club have all left for profit ? show me a manager who has not made the odd mistake in the transfer market.

Maybe you can tell me who you think should be managing this club. As is so often the case on this site ,people are so keen to slam David Moyes but I am yet to see any sensible sugestions as to who would do a better job.

I still would not be surprised to see Yakubu back in the side next season and scoring goals.
Derek Thomas
59   Posted 20/05/2011 at 08:34:26

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Dave Wilson (#57) ? Get real will you. We only got to the Cup Final because SAF put out the bench warmers.

And great day out though it was, the truth is we couldn't beat them in regular play. We had to go to the lottery of penalties.
Dave Wilson
60   Posted 20/05/2011 at 08:52:48

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Dear me... we must have the only supporters in world football who look for excuses for our WINS!

Pull yourself together, Derek lad, we had all this shite after the recent game at OT... strangely enough all those "bench warmers" have played in their remaining crucial games.
Andy Crooks
61   Posted 20/05/2011 at 18:31:28

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Derek, unfortunately, the "bench warmers" are better than our players. I believe that Moyes erred in the final but his efforts in getting us to the final demonstrated all that he is good at. His canniness in every round of the 2009 FA Cup was his finest time at Everton.

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