Now the season is over with Manchester Utd winning the league and Manchester City winning the FA Cup, initially I was pretty pleased that Liverpools record in Domestic football had been eclipsed. However, I find myself becoming increasingly bitter about the success coming the way of now both the Manchester clubs. At least previously City were nowhere, now it looks like the two Manchester clubs could dominate English football like Merseyside clubs did in the 80s.
As much as I have hated Liverpool for years and I will always despise Gerrard for his actions and attitude, I feel like it is now time for both clubs to put our differences aside and look to work together to put the two Merseyside clubs back where they belong at the pinnacle of English football.
The obvious way to do this, and I know it has surfaced and sank without trace many times before, is with a shared stadium, one that will eclipse Old Trafford or the City ground or any other league ground in Britain. I would like to see us get back to the days of Everton and Liverpool fans chanting "Merseyside" in FA Cup Finals and winning league titles year on year etc.
Previously, Evertonians have probably been slightly more sympathetic to the ground share idea than the Kopites but, with Liverpool slipping further and further behind the top four and with us now seeming to have hit a glass ceiling, maybe it is time to revisit this idea and really start to work together.
I know this will be unbearable to many Evertonians and Liverpudlians alike but we have a proud tradition of a strong empathy between the two clubs with support for Hillsborough, the Rhys Jones tragedy, etc although sadly this has fallen away over recent times. Surely it is time now to build together and re-establish Merseyside as the unquestionable pinnacle of English Football.
Jack Robinson, Posted 30/05/2011 at 16:16:45
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1 Posted 30/05/2011 at 18:30:08
I was gutted Man Utd won the league, I would rather neither of them held the record.
2 Posted 30/05/2011 at 18:36:16
They are even more bitter than us, the number of texts I received from my Redshite mates after the Champions League final was unreal... then again, I was wearing a Bayern Munich top in 1999.
3 Posted 30/05/2011 at 19:19:31
4 Posted 30/05/2011 at 19:19:07
Jack, sorry mate, they laugh at us trying to instigate ground shares. I hate them and long may they remain trophyless but sadly, if anyone is going to win trophies on Merseyside, it will be us getting the stick and there will be no "Merseyside" shouts from them if it happens. No matter what they say, they hate us more than Man Utd and Chelsea... at least our bitterness is to them only.
5 Posted 30/05/2011 at 19:57:33
6 Posted 30/05/2011 at 20:17:50
Well Merseyside has 27 titles in total, 9 to us and 18 to the RS, Manchester only has 21 in total, 19 to Manure and 2 to City.
Shouldn't they be singing, "Are you watching, Norway?"...
7 Posted 30/05/2011 at 20:31:26
Now I just happen to be one so I don't like the idea of sitting through 90 minutes of anti-scouse songs, call me humourless if you like.
IMO a plague on both their houses, fuck 'em all... the only team that matters is Everton.
8 Posted 30/05/2011 at 20:46:16
Everton is the only team that matters.
9 Posted 30/05/2011 at 20:59:29
10 Posted 30/05/2011 at 21:25:58
11 Posted 30/05/2011 at 21:06:44
The groundshare is an excellent example of the spoofery surrounding the "Merseyside" bollocks ? koppites view it as we would if Tranmere came knocking.
The Mancs ? inland, inbred toe-rags ? who's really arsed about them. They're just a bit closer than cockneys, Geordies and Yorkie bars ? they're neither here nor there on my emotional radar, it's all paper hype unless you live half way up the East Lancs.
12 Posted 30/05/2011 at 23:58:23
13 Posted 31/05/2011 at 02:13:37
City had the nice new stadium for a while and were still shit, until they were bought out multiple times. This last buyout was the key and now they will undoubtedly see many trophies going their way since they can just purchase the likes of Toure and Silva and God knows who else this summer.
Everton just need to be smart with the finances, not overspend right now, and add to the numbers through acquisitions like Bothroyd and maybe Long to add to the bench, as well as selling some players to add a couple of midfielders.
Keep it tight, hope to catch some luck with league results, injuries, and cheap transfers who prove to be worth more than their price. See if we can tread water and try to get 5th or 6th and, if things break our way one season, get into the Champions League spots and go from there.
14 Posted 31/05/2011 at 04:02:07
We don't have the money to acheive that, Jack, and never will have with the current regime in place.
15 Posted 31/05/2011 at 04:05:04
I told them "Because Everton aren't in it. I hate United when they play us, love them when they play the RS and don't care what happens to them in any other game 'cos they're not important to me."
16 Posted 31/05/2011 at 07:50:50
Sorry but they should burn in hell. We should take on the opportunity of being the City's biggest team and let them fall, go bust or just piss off to Norway or Dublin with the rest of their fans!! COYB
17 Posted 31/05/2011 at 08:17:32
The dosh in European football is mainly in the Champions League and the new UEFA rules regarding club finances will make it considerably more difficult to buy yourself into that competition every season. This will indirectly affect club's ability to buy domestic trophies too as they will be unwilling to overspend in that respect if it costs them a place in European competitions.
I appreciate clubs will try to find a way around the new rules and some clubs will still be better off than others, but nowhere near to the same extent as now.
I hope that's the case anyway!
18 Posted 31/05/2011 at 08:17:50
19 Posted 31/05/2011 at 08:19:59
Plus I don't really remember any trouble at derbies then or through the 60's and 70's.
However Heysel changed everything and since then, there has been a slow deterioration of the 'special relationship'.
I, like any good Evertonian, have always 'hated' them and their Kop and 'Big Ron Yeets' and Souness and 'Ehhh...Shanks' and their bannersand ALL their revisionist shite'.
But now there is a burning, violent hatred in many that is, imo, above and beyond.
When Andy King scored his winner in 78, I (aged 19) spent the entire night in town with 'the lads' deliberately goading reds.
Nobody gave me a crack, I didn't see any trouble, they accepted it as...their turn.
Now I have no doubt the same behaviour would see me in The Royal, have glass shards tweezered out of my grid.
As I say, it was a different time.
(re City/Utd, agree completely, not in the least bit interested)
20 Posted 31/05/2011 at 08:45:46
Going on about other clubs and their relative success does make us look bitter. Whatever our failings we are very successful in the grand scheme of things and we are fortunate to support such a great club. That does not mean we should not be ambitious but we must retain our dignity and not sell our souls as some clubs have done.
The chants of Merseyside did once mean something back in the 84 final there was genuine pride from both sets of supporters and lets not forget the whole city was under atttack from the Tories!
Many of us have friends and family who are reds, do we really hate them ? (I don''t think so) lets grow up. I am indifferent to all other football clubs simply because I love Everton so much.
21 Posted 31/05/2011 at 08:58:08
22 Posted 31/05/2011 at 09:00:20
As an Evertonain since I was 7 in 1964, I have seen times when we were the top team and times when it's been "them". I remember the 1977 European Cup Final and Liverpool winning 3-1. It was of course their first European Cup win - it was also only a few weeks after that "Bryan Hamilton goal". I recall that Liverpool had a big civic reception and I heard live the comments of a certain Emlyn Hughes. I was a student at the time and the next day one of my mates Laurie - a red - made a point of coming up to me and apologising for Hughes' crass comments.
Different times ? A different era ? Yes I would concede that. However I think there can be a danger in escalating the rivalry between the clubs to the pont of hatred.Do we want a Celtic - Rangers type of rivalry to prevail ? It was only a few years ago that a young Celtic fan was murdered bacause he happened to go the wrong way home through a Rangers area.
I live now near Lincoln and I have to say that I am very surprised and worried that I have to tell some of my friends here that there is no Religious divide between the Everton and Liverpool. Is that how others perceive us ? I hope not.
I remember one of the great Everton songs of the 1960's - " Oh we hate Bill Shankly and we hate St John - but most of all we hate big Ron, And we'll hang the Kopites one by one on the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey........." Now I don't for one second believe that Evertonians who sang that were advocating mass murder - it was clearly tongue in cheek. We didn't call it political correctness in the 1960's and 1970's - we called it commonsense and decency.
Rivalry - I am all for that but not hatred. A few years ago now - 1997 to be precise I went to Derby County v Everton at the not long opened Pride Park. It wasn't a long train ride from Lincoln. I was amazed after the game to see groups of Derby fans after the match at the station looking for Nott'm Forest fans travelling back from some away game. Hatred is what leads to the violence that marred the game in the 1980's - not the only factor I know, but an important factor nontheless.
Tommy Smith was a renowned Liverpool skipper - in a book of his shortly after the 1977 European Cup win he coomented on Emlyn Hughes' behaviour at the civic reception. He stated that there was a rivalry between Everton and Liverpool but not a war. He also stated that Hughes comments brought shame on Hughes but also on Liverpool FC - and he was very critical of Hughes. Coming from such a "renowned Red" I thought his comments were very "enlightening and very apt". A different era ? Well actually commonsense and decency transcend eras in my opinion. Rivalry yes - but hatred no. The consequences of hatred are very far ranging and dangerous and ultimately lead to violence.
23 Posted 31/05/2011 at 09:24:57
As a kid in the eighties loads was made of the "special" relationship blues/reds had, thats long gone and has been for ages
Im blue and so are my 2 little lads, my sis is red and so are her slightly bigger sons
My Mum (who is a Leeds fan) HATES derby games and everything they bring
I dont give a fuck about the shite or any team from manchester
All i care about is Everton, and thats all i ever will care about
24 Posted 31/05/2011 at 09:28:23
Did it make me less of a Blue. Absolutely not - when at Goodison I went through all the tension associated with and involved in "following/supporting your team". At Anfield I could relax - I wasn't bothered about the result, I wasn't "emotionally invoved"
Anyone recall the 1st game of the 1974-75 season ? Liverpool were away at Luton Town whilst the Blues were playing Derby County at Goodison. What was the reaction of the crowd at Goodison when a certain Bill Shankly took his seat in the Main Stand at Goodison ? A standing ovation !! A different era ? It's still possible to repect great rivals.
25 Posted 31/05/2011 at 09:41:43
Apparently it celebrates the number of touches they got against Barca on Saturday night.
26 Posted 31/05/2011 at 09:24:04
I remember going into work on the Monday after Big Norm curled his winner past Our Nev to be met by a lovable Red who couldn't wait to tell me the story of the huge roar in his household when the goal went in. The old dear next door tapped on the window to ask "Have Everton scored?"... "No, United have, now fuck off, Bluenose!" was the reply . How times change eh. By the end of the following week we had been banned from European Football. Gobshites!
People comment in the Media quite rightly about the injustices of Hillsborough and the Bradford fire , the deaths of the Leeds fans in Turkey ect while Heysel is Stalinesqly erased from the sporting history books. When the Free Michael Shields Buckets were being passed around the Stadiums how many were passed around for Martin Georgiev and his family for what he went though? Never mind lets all just sing Johnny Cash and have a Flag day.
If Everton can't do it then I'd gladly have United break every record Liverpool have had. The 'famous Kop' with its tremendous humour and racism. The "6th" European Cup bus. Rafa and his 'small club' comments. Ex-players like Emlyn Hughes and Phil Thompson banging on and on for years about Shankly while taking every chance to slag off Everton before United became a threat. The "Merseyside, Merseyside" thing only ever surfaces when Liverpool are having a trophy drought and they couldn't give a fuck about us the rest of the time so why should we get into bed with them?
No, mate, this Blue has a long memory and will NEVER LET THEM FORGET one of saddest days at a football stadium.
27 Posted 31/05/2011 at 10:11:46
You're right about the Shankly thing, I always tell any RS fans that Shankly,in his own words,said that he was always made more welcome after his retirement at Everton than he was at Liverpool.I saw him several times walking down Goodison Road to take his seat in the Main Stand and he was always happy to join in a bit of banter with us Blues. He was a football man, end of story. Compare that with the creep Benitez.
Thanks,mate you've saved me the trouble of writing my own thoughts of the post Shankly era.
28 Posted 31/05/2011 at 10:23:40
You are letting your bitterness blind you. Would you really want to swap their european cups and 18 titles for the shame of heysel and the tragedy of hillsborough? Get a grip of yourself.
Most Liverpool fans like Everton fans live in or were originally from the City. As much as we bait them about being from Cornwall or Norway or wherver its a an urban myth that is useful to take the piss out of them.
Do you want to end up with the sectarian bigotry of rangers and celtic? Of course they take the piss when we lose, just as we do and that is fine. If you can't take don't go the match. Shankly was wrong it is only a game.
29 Posted 31/05/2011 at 10:18:35
30 Posted 31/05/2011 at 10:05:38
It is the "entity" the "overall personna" a club portrays not individuals that is the focus.
When the cameras pan to the kop and someone shouts "action", cue ynwa - I hate it with a passion, but when it was affordable and I used to go to both grounds I wished we had something similar.
Despite the disparity in honours since the 70s I still think of overtaking them and can't bring myself to admit they're better than us in anyway shape or form.
So with due respect to friends and close family who are Reds - fuck 'em.
31 Posted 31/05/2011 at 10:39:24
I don't see much shame and embarressment and rememberance from the current Liverpool FC and its supporters over Heysel . I don't recall saying i wanted to swap their titles for anything? what I did say is i dont want anything to do with them and i'm happy with that and don't need to get over myself thank you very much.
32 Posted 31/05/2011 at 10:05:56
I really (genuinely!) wish I could believe that but...I don't.
I think it USED to be the case but..not anymore.
Of course I'm talking in general terms (nb: hard to use specifics), but I think we have, in the last 20 years, lost a LOT of 'commonsense and decency'.
Nothing concrete, just my belief/opinion, given how the world around me appears to have changed.
I believe that when what used to be called 'the working class' was targeted by Thatcher, in a kind of 'buy a house, join the middle-class or fuck off', it was the birth of what is now sometimes referred to a the 'underclass'.
And basically we're now three or four generations in.
I don't know if anyone has been following a programme called 'The Scheme' (see your bbciplayer) but it has depressed and shocked me in equal measure and watching it, I can't for a second think 'this is nobody's fault'.
There was one feller on there who looked after his garden and his missus kept their house spic-and-span.
This couple were presented almost as an..um...oddity.
An oddity because almost every other fucker featured, appeared to be on heroin, or bevvy, or heroin and bevvy, or in court, or jail, or in jail on heroin, or....
Now I understand there's no show if EVERYONE keeps their house-garden nice, but even so, the scale of the problems are incredible AND....this is just ONE estate near Kilmarnock.
In a spiral (like the one presented) of pure hopeless waste and feral day-to-day 'living', decency and commonsense are bound to be victims.
And when they are, extreme hatred and violence prosper.
I'd say the evidence is sadly (threateningly) staring us in the face.
Apologies as I realise this is veering from the OP and also realise this is classic 'an oul-arse writes' (but I have at least followed the 'thread')
33 Posted 31/05/2011 at 11:32:07
Football in the 1970s was generally awful in England and the feeling of decline even stronger than expressed on these pages. I dispair that so many in England have this constant belief that somehow things were better in the past. They weren't. High unemployment, outdoor toilets, drug culture, crime rates, football violence, police brutality, treatment of gays, access to internet, inflation, interest rates, fall in real house prices- all a lot worse in the 1970s. Everton were also pretty ordinary from 1971-79. No trophies and qualified for Europe twice (early exits both times).
Yes there is a lot of poor behaviour out there today - but twas always the case.
34 Posted 31/05/2011 at 12:03:56
Actually in saying we were poor 1971-79 - you ignore 1974-75 when we should have won the title ( we finished 4th 2 or 3 points behind Derby but we lost 2 home games 2-3 that should have been won as we were 2-0 up in both) also 1976-77 - 1978-79 when we reached the League Cup Final, FA Cup Semi Final and the next 2 seasons finished 3rd & 4th.
Anyway to get back to the point - Rivalry with Liverpool yes of course - whenever an Everton team beats Liverpool then I take great delight. Hatred ? Well if we are to take the word at its true meaning then sorry rule me out of that one - events such as the Haulocast, organisations such as the Ku Klu Klan and the history of the Balkans show what hatred can lead to. Dramatic ? Well it starts in a small way then it escalates; just like the worst forest fire can start with a small spark.
As you say Ray #26 Shankly was a great rival but one worthy of respect - a far cry from Benitez. And as regards the banner at Old Trafford -well I know it's another rivalry - but the principle is the same. I find that the banner has not been removed shows that MUFC tolerate it and therefore approve. It should be removed - It show disrespect to an opposing club. What some people in sport seem to have lost is the importance of being gracious in victory and in defeat. I find it appalling that players today surround the Referee whenever a decision is given against them - it used to be just when it was a controversial decision - now it's every decision. One thing I think Moyes should be praised for is that most of the time Everton don't seem to behave in this way.
It must be hard for all you Evertonians who are England supporters - do you cheer Gerrard? He has come in for some stick from Evertonians - a hate figure ? Well though I wouldn't go as far as that - Steven Gerrard is one of the players I most dislike. I think just like Lampard and Cole he represents all that's worst about the modern player and that other bloke whatsis name ? You know the Premier League Footballer ?
Mind you I am sure that someone at Man United's commercial dept has probably worked out that a shirt 11 with Giggs costs less than one with 11 and the letters Premier League Footballer.
35 Posted 31/05/2011 at 11:58:52
I would not be happy with the prospect of a shared stadium and I firmly believe most Evertonians would feel the same way. We would suffer in terms of identity and it would always be perceived, no matter what the precise circumstances, as Everton hitching a ride on the Shite's brighter star and fuller wallet. So it looks like we will be at Goodison for quite some time yet and the issue is really about how Goodison is perceived and employed.
It can be viewed as a ball and chain forever holding the club back and a counter indicator to inward investment. A painful boil, and I have to admit I have been guilty of seeing the old girl in that light.
But it is possible to turn a boil into a beauty spot. It is the first and oldest surviving football stadium in the world. It is quaint, atmospheric, inefficient and unkempt. But instead of considering all those factors in a negative light, with a little imagination they could become positives. The quaintness and the history should be emphasised. The fact it is the oldest and the first should be proclaimed, not on a brass plate in the foyer but as adjectives attached to its name, outside on the walls. Stately homes are not usually more warm and comfortable than a modern detached footballer's pad in Alderley Edge or Formby but which impresses the most? While everybody else is pursuing a stainless steel and breezeblock 'modern' stadium, why doesn't our quaint and otherworldly club turn the whole thing on its head and proceed in the direction of preservation, history and tradition? Over every turnstile should read a sign saying...Welcome to Goodison Park, the first and oldest football stadium'.
There's not much wrong with the Bullens and Gwladys exterior that removal of the industrial cladding and its replacement with buttressed brick curtain walls couldn't solve. The Park end and Main stand pitchside frontages could be embellished to match the older ironwork of the older stands even if it was done in fibreglass. The club needs to make an asset out of what it perceives as Goodison's disadvantages just like Speke Hall has made a National Trust icon out of its creeky and draughty condition. There are even ways (I am led to believe) of improving the situation regarding obstructed views without the wholesale rebuilding of stands. The awful lower Bullens could be turned into a state of the art concourse area or corporate boxes and the Park end extended to take up the shortfall in seats that would result.
If the club perceived Goodison in this way, and let it be known to the world that she was perceived in this way and acted according to that perception, then Goodison could become an advantage and an inducement to investment rather than the opposite.
It is possible to make a silk purse out of a cow's ear. All it needs is the will and determination to make it happen.
36 Posted 31/05/2011 at 12:49:28
Appealing for peace is easy, however, erasing the memories will never happen. In my opinion the RS are a team who gratified themselves in bringing as much hardship as possible to the blue half of the city.
The persona of their club, from the Kop to fuckers that fill it, leaves you with a feeling of dread. Yes, they have a pact, from the BBC & Sky to any media rag that you care to mention. Take a look at their recent buyout - only those fuckers could come out of that situation smelling of roses!! Then again, we could only read what the BBC and Sky wanted us to read.
Peace - you are fucking joking.
37 Posted 31/05/2011 at 13:20:23
38 Posted 31/05/2011 at 13:24:04
I'm pleased to see you;ve finally taken notice of what us Luddite unrealists were saying all through the Kirkby debacle
Goodison would be an asset to a Board with any sense - surely they could get some financial help to preserve "the first purpose-built football stadium in the world"
As for that shower, I'm with the Grand Old Ladies of Kemlyn Road ... "the sooner they're back in the 2nd Division, where they belong, the better!
39 Posted 31/05/2011 at 13:18:47
In my opinion when the club had the opportunity to develop Goodison but didn't take it. It's not too late though - with careful planning and if we accept that it's something that would have to be done long tern in stages - Goodison could be redeveloped. After all Old Trafford in it's present form was started in 1992.
As regards ground share - I would be in favour - but only and I stress only if it was seen to be an "equal partnership". If it was regarded as Everton being invited to join LIverpool's planned stadium - then no way. It must be promoted as an equal partnership or not at all.
40 Posted 31/05/2011 at 13:35:57
Let's have a look shall we.
"Football in the 1970s was generally awful in England and the feeling of decline even stronger than expressed on these pages".
Subjective (and imo, revisionist).
Everton may not have won a title between 70 and 85 but...we COULD have.
Can we now?
As a regular 70's match-goer, I was of course pissed off coming out of games we..LOST!
But people WEREN'T going to the games saying "Aren't the 70's grim and dirty plus I feel the game is in decline".
"I dispair that so many in England have this constant belief that somehow things were better in the past. They weren't. High unemployment, outdoor toilets, drug culture, crime rates, football violence, police brutality, treatment of gays, access to internet, inflation, interest rates, fall in real house prices- all a lot worse in the 1970s. Everton were also pretty ordinary from 1971-79. No trophies and qualified for Europe twice (early exits both times).
Sorry but you just...lose the run of yourself.
Crime was worse THEN!?
Fact: (source, House Of Commons documents available online to all) Between 1970 and 2000 the prison figures doubled for men AND women.
As for the murder figures/rate...well, I'm not going to say, I'll let you figure out if you think they're better or worse now.
Look, there was OF COURSE stuff that was worse then and there is OF COURSE plenty about life that is better now.
But the POINT is/was about 'commonsense and decency' in people ("outside toilets, interests rates" wtf!??).
I'm not saying there definitely WERE more people with commonsense and decency back than, I just definitely THINK there were.
41 Posted 31/05/2011 at 14:25:49
I am afraid your hatred of Liverpool and bitterness blinds you to any rational analysis. Are you suggesting that all LFC fans feel no sense of shame of what happened at Heysel? You can speak with confidence on this can you?
We have a fair share of nasty, racist knobheads too Andy or are you in denial over this?
Eugene as for your look back to the 70s. I agree that Everton were far better to watch then and actually came closer to winning anything that we have witnessed under the current regime.
42 Posted 31/05/2011 at 15:02:32
The social aspects well that's a personal thing - I don't think people ever change - the passion was greater because football was still affordable and depended on skilful players rather than athletes, but it was changing. When Duncan Mackenzie was fucked off by Gordon Lee it was a milestone - we followed the model of busy, workmanlike liverpool - just not as well, till kendal.
43 Posted 31/05/2011 at 15:20:01
Don't try and take credit for what others suggest. Many of the arguments against DK where luddite then and remain so now and were based on stopping something they didn't like rather than suggesting a way forward.
Whatever value my ideas my have now they are based on the fact we have no alternative but to remain at Goodison for the foreseeable future. If an alternative arises I may change my view. Which means I am not a luddite and happy to say so!
44 Posted 31/05/2011 at 15:30:55
We came a lot closer to winning the league with Bingham and Lee than we ever have with Moyes. The side that had dobson, king, latchford et al were far more entertaining than we have had of late.
45 Posted 31/05/2011 at 15:46:54
If Moyes had been our manager in the 70's we may have won the league...who knows.
46 Posted 31/05/2011 at 15:50:46
At the time I remember grumbling but in retrospect if we had that team now we'd clean up.
It's all relative - always.
If we get relegated to oblivion - in 40 yrs time some fans will be heard saying if only we had Neville, Anichebe, Osman, Hibbo.
I'm on a diet but I desperately need cake now.
47 Posted 31/05/2011 at 16:54:15
Apologies, for my error. For those of certain age the 70's were halycon days compared to some of the sterile football we have witnessed during more recent times.
Dave we wouldn't have won the league with Moysie he is simply not positive enough. I quite ike him as a manager and he has really good points but he is 'stuck' in his thinking partly because of circumstances i.e. lack of money but also because of a lack of vision.
48 Posted 31/05/2011 at 16:55:19
My opposition to leaving Goodison for a mid-range concrete outhouse was based very much on emotional attachment to tthe old girl and the sure knowledge that we were being lied to
You were all in favour, I seem to recall, based on there being, in your view, no other option
Now, suddenly, you accept there is
49 Posted 31/05/2011 at 17:07:25
You responded to the pont made by David Ellis that the game was in decline in the 1970's. I would agree with your comments and I think we definitely could have and should have won a title between 1970 and 1985 - if Bingham and Lee had been braver in their tactics I think we would have.
As regards the game in the 1970s, there may be more money "sloshing around" now ? but I can't recall Fifa making the news headlines for corruption as they have been doing in the last few days.
Our Red neighbours have had much to crow about have they ? Not so long ago they were fretting over ownership issues. Refresh my memory please are these the "Good Guy Yanks" that own them now as oppose to the " Bad Guy Yanks " that were there before. Will all these mega rich owners be around in 5 or 10 years time? There is saying that money easily gained is easily squandered. We seem to be in the era of the mega rich owner so should we be jealous of Liverpool or Man City? I am not; for when the proverbial hits the fan as I am sure it will do eventually -it's the clubs that have remained truest to the real principles of the game that will be in the strongest position.
Idealistic? Yes I'll plead guilty to that - but I don't envy Chelsea with Ambramovic. He may have billions - but it seems to be him that's sanctioned the signing of Torres. £50M - 1 goal in 18 games is it ? Doesn't make Beckford's record seem so bad. How soon before the Yanks and the Arab billionaires start wanting to tell their coaches who to sign ?
Marx may not have had football in mind when he said "capitalism contains within it the seeds of its own destruction." (Or words to that effect!) But the strivings of some including Liverpool FC if not tempered with some common sense will see another club go the way of Leeds United. So I wouldn't want to swop with the Reds at all. And anyway when the going gets tough Kenny gets going...... out the door!!!!
50 Posted 31/05/2011 at 20:10:00
With due respect to Jack, this shared stadium idea surfaces every now and again and every time I'm bewildered when somebody claims it's "obvious" or that "it makes good business sense" or offers the inevitable "it's a no-brainer".
By way of explanation, I'm always bewildered when the prospect of a shared stadium is offered as a solution, as to me it isn't an obvious solution at all. Was it an obvious solution when the future of the Olympic stadium was being debated and West Ham and Tottenham were seeking ownership?
No, it was never mentioned, just as it has never been mentioned in Manchester, Glasgow or anywhere else major British football clubs ply their trade in cities with more than one club. Yes, it has happened in other countries, most notably in Germany and Italy for instance, yet it has been far from an overwhelming success to say the least.
As for it making good business sense, again how? Where are the reports indicating this to be the case? Has anyone conducted a study? The fact is they haven't; a shared stadium just sounds like a good idea in the same way as living with your mother in law does but the practicalities are somewhat different! Even a basic perusal of both clubs tells you that they both have specific and very different target markets to exploit which would dictate stadium design and whilst one can demonstrate the need for increased capacity the other can't.
At the risk of upsetting quite a few fellow Evertonians, I'll state the obvious, Everton can't even demonstrate a business case for a new stadium, yes they can state a desire to increase their commercial revenue streams but that's different from demonstrating demand. Where are the sell out crowds? Where are the ticket waiting lists? Are all the lounges over subscribed? It's painful but the answer to all of those questions indicates we can't demonstrate one.
My own opinion, for what it's worth, is that the only people who think it's a no-brainer are those who think it sounds like a good idea, usually politicians, or people who can't see an alternative; not surprising really when we have a board that, having spent the past decade trying to address the problem, have come up with nothing deliverable whatsoever; unlike the board across the park who will soon be announcing their plans to move their club forward ? and let me assure you it won't be a shared stadium. The sooner the sale at Goodison is concluded the better for everyone. ;-)
51 Posted 31/05/2011 at 19:59:03
I had convinced myself that I was going mad thinking we should promote and celebrate the Old Lady. Walking through Stanley Park v Sunderland, I came across four young Mackems asking me the way to a pub, so I said I'll walk with them, have a bit of footy talk and show them a nice old ale house where they might not get kicked in if they act sensible like. We reached Goodison and three of them start taking piss ? "It's an old tin shed, like", "Call that a Premier League ground, like, haway man!"...
At which point I stopped them and gave them an education on the Old Lady, all her 'firsts' and that, if they want to enjoy a nice bevvy, to take care not to diss the beauty. Three of them were nobheads but one of the lads listened carefully, nodding and told his mates to "Shut the fuck up like and listen will ya".
Don't know what I'm trying to say here, but I guess if a teenager from Sunderland is open to challenge his mates and his own biases and learn about a football heritage, then there is hope.
52 Posted 01/06/2011 at 07:24:55
I'll bet the RS owners will be looking to redevelop Mordor rather than move. As Colin so painfully put it, we don't have justification for even that with the present setup.
53 Posted 01/06/2011 at 12:40:50
I followed the blues home and away through the 1960s and have great memories of singing, chants, banter and meeting people from all over. I have lived overseas and love all sports and Everton most.
Went to Twickenham for rugby last Saturday in a thrilling final between Leicester and Saracens. Fans decked out in tiger outfits or wearing fez or full arab regalia, plenty of banter, tons of beer, crowds mixed up together, men women and children. Teams knock the hell out of each other, give three cheers for other team at the end then clap each other off. Fans shouting "good win mate" to opposition, and continuing to party. Total fun day out, even for a neutral.
I said to my wife and daughter, "This is the way football used to be, you know!" They didn't believe me. Sad. I still will not wear the colour red, but that was just fun and banter. My cousin is a red, which proves there is insanity in the family. Don't hate him though. Where has the fun and humour gone? Why has it been replaced by misery and hate? Carpe Diem.
54 Posted 01/06/2011 at 12:52:55
55 Posted 01/06/2011 at 14:11:11
I had a whale of a time there and was really welkome.
56 Posted 01/06/2011 at 17:03:52
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