I've just seen the rumour that Gerrard Houllier is about to be leaving Aston Villa. With that post vacant it can't be too long before the rumours linking David Moyes with Villa start re-emerging.
Given the other story (all right then, rumour) that Moyes has been told he has to sell before he can buy, does anyone think he might be swayed by the chance to have some money to spend? Will Kenwright's continued inability to generate some meaningful investment finally get to Davey?
Rob Williamson, Posted 31/05/2011 at 15:55:32
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1 Posted 31/05/2011 at 16:21:12
2 Posted 31/05/2011 at 16:40:47
3 Posted 31/05/2011 at 16:41:10
James, at least he would have money to spend if he did go.........and do you know what? I wouldn't blame him
4 Posted 31/05/2011 at 16:40:43
5 Posted 31/05/2011 at 16:48:34
6 Posted 31/05/2011 at 16:44:25
Whether it's a source of worry....well.....who can say?
7 Posted 31/05/2011 at 16:51:23
We don't do polls anymore (A question for Lyndon?) but even if we did, there is always some bias in such responses. Can't you just speak for yourself without invoking this "majority"?
8 Posted 31/05/2011 at 16:49:29
I think we're safe where Villa are concerned but, if Harry Boy goes to Chelski, Spurs might be a worry.
9 Posted 31/05/2011 at 16:57:47
10 Posted 31/05/2011 at 17:00:45
11 Posted 31/05/2011 at 16:55:25
Plus he said he won't go to Villa, so that's that then.
12 Posted 31/05/2011 at 17:07:59
13 Posted 31/05/2011 at 17:10:47
He doesn't have to sell his best players here and as far as i can see it none of them have been threatening to leave either.
On the other hand all of Villas good players want out. Not really a tough call.
His threats at the board about giving him cash in my opinion are not real. Anyway he has stated many times that he thinks we have a wonderful board and the only thing they need to do is give him more cash.
But as far as i see it he will offload a few get cash for them and pump it into free transfers or young wannabes from lower leagues as always.
The fear i'd have is if he did ever leave who could we afford to replace him? We would need him to walk away so we wouldn't have to pay compensation for sacking etc... but again our board could not afford anyone decent.
It's catch 22 now.
14 Posted 31/05/2011 at 17:32:22
You, and the majority on here have time and time again shown your distaste for Moyes. It's just the truth and you should accept it and stop throwing those comments out any time someone points it out.
15 Posted 31/05/2011 at 17:36:15
16 Posted 31/05/2011 at 18:11:54
17 Posted 31/05/2011 at 18:27:47
For the record, I am one who does not want Moyes to leave us, who else could keep us 7th in the league with the injuries we have every year?
18 Posted 31/05/2011 at 18:51:21
They'll be selling that diving cheat Young as well this summer. I doubt if that is the sort of scenario that would appeal to DM, so no, we should not be worried.
19 Posted 31/05/2011 at 19:02:05
As he has 2 years left on his deal, it also means Everton will get a nice wedge in compensation plus the man I would want as his replacement is available.
Step forward Steve McClaren... wait! What's that I hear? The sound of a hundred keyboards being bashed with the phrase "Be careful what you wish for..."
20 Posted 31/05/2011 at 19:04:16
On a more relevant point, really couldn't see Moyes going to Villa. He's denied it several times already, just seems to be the usual made-up tabloid rubbish.
21 Posted 31/05/2011 at 18:05:03
22 Posted 31/05/2011 at 19:46:57
23 Posted 31/05/2011 at 20:03:53
24 Posted 31/05/2011 at 20:12:55
I'm in two minds really: I just want Kenwright out I suppose. As for the post the other day biging up Dave Jones... Give me Fucking Strengh!
25 Posted 31/05/2011 at 20:14:16
If Moyes goes, then he goes, same with Baines/Rodwell et al. They should be staying to strengthen the club but may well be forced out or leave for the big buck only to warm the bench at city or Chelsea, etc. At the end of the day it's just one more Everton flavour shit sandwich of which we all have to take a bite.
Does it really matter as we cannot compete in an immorally rich league anyway... I'm past caring... Does it show?
26 Posted 31/05/2011 at 20:37:49
Have you also not noticed that, when there is a post in any way supportive of Moyes, there are a myriad of counter opinions and counter-counter opinions (and so on) posted?
I'm not saying it's "balanced" but what I am saying is that it should not be taken as indicative of a majority, and it is certainly not "overwhelming" as you claim. I think you will find that people generally respond when sufficiently roused by the opposing viewpoint.
Forget this garbage about balance. It's only misguided readers like you who think such a forum could or should ever achieve "balance" or that the site itself must somehow be "neutral" ? just as I know such a forum does not reflect a "majority" or a "minority" viewpoint ? it represents diversity.
Evertonians have a diverse range of opinions on most things to do with the club. All I'm asking is for people to acknowledge that and stop using this "majority" in your discussions of your own personal viewpoints.
27 Posted 31/05/2011 at 21:18:55
Regarding "Evertonians have a diverse range of opinions on most things to do with the club.", I would add opined with passion, intelligence, often hilarity, and (famously and best) wit. Rare on discussion boards.
28 Posted 31/05/2011 at 21:44:45
29 Posted 31/05/2011 at 21:47:30
If he goes then surely the Kenwright lovers will see the club is going nowhere with him running it. Being linked with bloody players such as Bothroyd, Mckail-Smith and Klose who, let's face it, was good but he must be what 35 now???
If he goes to Villa, which I honestly think he will, he would be facing a squad revolt there with all thier best players wanting to leave. He would be given say £40mill... two or three Bilys and a few Krøldrups and Beatties later with the persistent negative tactics, it won't be long before the Villain fans start wanting him out too.
In an ideal world, Kenwright to go with an ambitious businessman with a plan to come in followed by an ambitious fresh new manager with funds to spend and our ageing squad being dismantled. COYB!!
30 Posted 31/05/2011 at 22:28:07
He is bombproof and will remain until the right job for him comes up. Scotland job in a few years? or Kenwright goes?
31 Posted 31/05/2011 at 22:42:42
Result all round then as Villa sell off English players for French/Spanish mercenaries.
No, I'm far more concerned about the fact that the tax dodging cockney bastard Redknapp may go to Chelski, leaving a nice little job at Spurs open for an ambitious, experienced manager.
32 Posted 01/06/2011 at 05:29:16
Some great bargain buys that turned out to be internationals. Gotta give credit there. Pretty strong defense and good team spirit. Some good league positions and almost cups.
Did a reasonable job getting us to play some joined-up football with limited funds to buy top-drawer payers.
Poor job at some team selections, tactics and substitutions. Missed a couple of cup winning opportunities with fearful, negative play. And how he could play Anichebe ahead of me, I don't know.
But I'm not a hater. Can't think of anyone available and better right now. Unless we get really lucky, can't see a replacement that will give us what we want: an exciting, winning side.
We love Everton, but not everyone sees through blue-tinted glasses. She's not a supermodel. But neither am I a superman.
33 Posted 01/06/2011 at 06:33:41
34 Posted 01/06/2011 at 07:53:49
They might have to cope with a manager that could win a trophy and plays attractive football.
But its all nonsense, Moyes is going to stay in his cushy little job, with his cushy paypacket from his cushy Chairman, winning nothing, blaming everybody else while hearing from The Majority of fans that he's just grrreat !
Keep it up Davey, its been exciting. Another 9 years of the same, please.
35 Posted 01/06/2011 at 08:04:44
36 Posted 01/06/2011 at 08:02:46
37 Posted 01/06/2011 at 08:11:13
38 Posted 01/06/2011 at 08:54:07
39 Posted 01/06/2011 at 09:57:13
Whether people are Moyes 'Nut huggers' as you have so crudely put or not. The overwhelming evidence is that Moyes has done above and beyond most manager in the league with an average squad and a pitful budget over the years.
Attractive football you say other than Arsenal there are not too many other teams who play it. Chelsea won their leagues with boring stuff and Man Utd don't exactly light up the skills department.
I think most realistic people are concerned with is if he leaves who can we get? We are skint and do not have any spending power to bring in someone decent. Even if we did that person would have to sell to buy.
Lets face it at present whehter we like moyes or not we are stuck with him. Now i do not 'love' moyes and i think he is one o fthe most frustating men in football but if it means we starve of relegation for another while i have it. He has punched above his weight most of the seasons he has been in charge so at least give him credit where its due.
Oh wait you must want walter smith back and the relegation days again.
We all want better why wouldn't we? In these times though its better to be realistic and not some smart arse insulting other everton fans
40 Posted 01/06/2011 at 10:37:22
41 Posted 01/06/2011 at 10:42:27
The point I'm making is that criticism of Moyes' negativity in terms of attitude to the game and planning for games would have to be aimed at Mourinho too....the only difference being it probably wouldn't end in criticism if there were several trophies in the cupboard!
It would have been interesting to see if Moyes could have won those trophies for Everton, playing a very similar style to Chelsea if he had had access to the cash to make the style work as effectively as it did at Chelsea. And if he had had that benefit would he now be the 'tactical genius' that Mourinho is considered to be?!
42 Posted 01/06/2011 at 11:16:43
Moyes has already batted away speculation linking him with the Villa Park post ? laughing off internet rumours and saying: ?As far as I know I?m here and I?m the manager.
?I want to have a club, though, where I can give the supporters something, I really do.
?I want a good fresh challenge when we come back next summer and hopefully that will be the case.?
If Moyes got just £5 million from the board for new players, I'd be amazed (never mind the wild dream of £15m).
Thinking of the posts yesterday about the age of the squad, It got me thinking that Moyes would want maybe three more years at Everton and the older players would be the nucleus of his team for the remainder. But those comments make me think even Villa now could interest him.
43 Posted 01/06/2011 at 11:06:03
44 Posted 01/06/2011 at 12:15:51
Get the Dour defensive fucker out.....NOW.
I would also like to see Steve McClaren get the job ...........just to counteract the pople who keep shouting if not Moyes then who.
After 10 yrs give some other fucker ago.
45 Posted 01/06/2011 at 12:18:00
First... Big Sam has gone to West Ham, so even if Moyes goes we won't have to suffer his dire brand of footy.
Secondly.. Michael Owen has just signed an extension at Manure, so if Moyes stays he won't be able to sign him.
46 Posted 01/06/2011 at 12:21:40
So as for Man U coming to knock on Moyes door dont make me laugh.
Man U and Chelsea are facing teams such as "barcelona" in the champions league so do you think they will see Mr dour one up front as the answer.
47 Posted 01/06/2011 at 12:20:13
I am sure all the Fulham fans are coming out on their websites this morning having heard the remarks made on radio this morning.that Mark Hughes is favourite for the job.
Just speculation by TalkShite, and Sky.
48 Posted 01/06/2011 at 08:11:13
49 Posted 01/06/2011 at 12:42:22
Daniel is this the same McClaren that was sacked from his last job with a win ratio of less than 24%.....get in there, where do I sign?
Man Ure and Chelski often only play one up front, it's just that they have a midfield who can actually assist teh forward and hold the ball up too.
50 Posted 01/06/2011 at 12:49:19
McClaren has won more in his career than Moyes, he has more experience of foreign football than Moyes and has international football experience.
He is more than capable of replacing Moyes who has won FUCK ALL.
51 Posted 01/06/2011 at 12:55:00
52 Posted 01/06/2011 at 13:03:13
53 Posted 01/06/2011 at 13:10:16
I see you are making excuses for McClaren, watch out you may get called a McClaren nut hugger shortly because anything like that said about Moyes and you are an apolgist etc etc
54 Posted 01/06/2011 at 13:16:07
No excuses for Moyes because our subs do seem to take an extraordinary amount of time to get on, this season alone how many goals have we conceeded whilst the sub is on the side line?
55 Posted 01/06/2011 at 13:27:03
56 Posted 01/06/2011 at 13:29:53
Defeatist attitude? How can you say that about any poster. It's called realism.
Get a grip we are broke and Kenwright won't sell anytime soon or help get investors.
Moyes won't walk away from a lucrative salary either.
Those are facts. Facts myself and others have reiterated and commented on.
Please explain how our realistic look at Everton's impossible situation is defeatist?
As for Moyes's defeatist attitude, what? I never get people who say that. I am not his biggest fan and his decision-making is questionable sometimes but defeatist? Not a chance. He's more of a conservative type of manager who lacks an edge to make the right sub or tactical decision but that does not make him defeatist.
Love or hate Moyes, there's nothing we can do to get rid of him ? simple as that.
57 Posted 01/06/2011 at 13:54:30
58 Posted 01/06/2011 at 13:55:00
There are only really two people who can get DM out of Everton; BK and DM.
59 Posted 01/06/2011 at 14:42:02
My response would have been very similar to TJW's in that Mourinho could more easily make game changing substituions with the calibre of players he had on the bench at Chelsea. But that is exactly my point. People criticise Moyes' tactics and call him 'dour', over-cautious and defensive.....but it is exactly that attitude which won Mourinho trophies at Chelsea and Milan. My question was whether Moyes, if he had had the financial clout of Chelsea, could have won trophies, using virtually the same tactics as Mourinho by being able to attract a higher calibre of player in the positions where it mattered most.
My subsidiary question was, therefore, if Moyes had had that advantage, had won a few trophies, would he still be receiving the kind of vilification he receives on this site? It is not Moyes' fault that he can't attract players like Drogba or Essien but if he could and we had Chelsea's trophy haul over the last few years would you still be calling for his head?
A further question is....is there anything at all you see as positive about this club? Every post I see with your name on it is full of vitriol. That's up to you but it's not healthy lad!
60 Posted 01/06/2011 at 15:20:28
'We might have won the League three times, The FA cup three times, the double once, the League Cup twice, got to the Champions League final and never been out of the top four in god knows how many years...but fuck off Moyes you dour, defensive, over-cautious bastard.'
No you wouldn't.
Because with the glint of silverware every football philosophy or preference exits stage-left!!
61 Posted 01/06/2011 at 19:27:12
However, I can not agree with Michael about whether we can talk about a majority, I believe the reception from The Goodison Park faithful after the Chelsea game provided conclusive and irrefutable proof that Moyes has the support and Backing of the overwhelming majority, that said I think Michael actually belongs to that majority... The majority ? or at least every Evertonian I have ever come across ? are highly critical of Moyes, they know there is room for improvement and many demand it of him, but relatively few (even on TW David #14) actually call for Moyes to go, of course there are a few, just like there are in the stands and in the alehouse`s.
Davey Moyes would have to be deaf dumb and blind to not be aware of the criticism, but we all saw that reception after the Chelsea game, it must have given him considerable encouragement. the reception was from the matchgoer, without whom there wouldn't be an Everton to discuss. The people who feel the need to call these loyal fans ? the lifeblood of our club ? childish and idiotic names are merely an embarrassment to the more intelligent critics.
Anyway, Ya pays ya money and ya takes your choice, If you believe hammering the manager will make him pull his socks up then you must hammer him, personally I will always support the manager of this club, simply because I believe incessant criticism only serves to increase the pressure in what is already a highly pressurised job.
Worried? No way, Moyes is a decent manager and I`d like him to stay, but if he chooses to go, it will be his loss.
62 Posted 01/06/2011 at 21:15:54
When the likes of the "Giants" of Swansea and Norwich City start making signings and he begins trawling through free signings/Bosmans and still cant afford the wages, rather than sitting there with a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp, this time it will finally hit home.
He will look at the record of failures/cock ups as long as your arm of our current chairman and realise, that while Kenwright can commit continual bodge ups and still not have the dignity to resign, IT WILL NOT GET ANY BETTER....Villa ?..Spurs ?..It will happen.
63 Posted 01/06/2011 at 21:29:25
From what Moyes has said that is not the situation at Everton, where Moyes calls the shots. If one of the big money clubs came in for him then I think he would go but thats not were Villa are so I would be very surprised if he went.
64 Posted 01/06/2011 at 22:07:56
65 Posted 01/06/2011 at 22:10:38
66 Posted 01/06/2011 at 22:11:16
67 Posted 01/06/2011 at 22:49:41
68 Posted 01/06/2011 at 23:31:34
69 Posted 01/06/2011 at 23:52:12
70 Posted 02/06/2011 at 06:20:16
Moyes said this was his best squad ever, whats wrong with that? It's a fact.
The trouble Moyes has is he is having to build brick by brick, it has taken him years to assemble a squad ? one we could afford. Yet the managers of the top six can all go out and buy better players than ours every time the transfer window opens, they now deal in 50 million pound strikers.
Rich owners are able to secure the services of the cream simply by paying more wages than we can, most Evertonians recognise this and think Moyes does a good job competing with them at all. That's the reason he was given such a ringing endorsement from the GP faithful.
Whether Moyes goes or not, our time will not come until we have a board that is able/prepared to pay the wages to attract the best.
71 Posted 02/06/2011 at 15:05:41
I know what will stick with me from this season, and it has more to do with the promise at the start, quickly followed by the realisation of Moyes's total failure to do his job properly with the players that he had in the first few weeks that saw this "best squad" BOTTOM of the Premier League.
72 Posted 02/06/2011 at 15:28:50
I don't think you will though.
73 Posted 02/06/2011 at 15:13:33
It was our expectations that were over the top, not his.
If Louis Saha had hit the ground running last August, if Mickey had got his best form back straight away instead of not at all, if the back four hadn't leaked goals (unexpectedly....and who expected that?) like a sieve meaning we almost always needed to score at least two to win then who knows we might have been up there in the mix. Results were not as good as expected so confidence wanes and home games become a pressure cooker and the whole business gets harder and harder. Just because a football pundit says our performance against Blackburn was just like watching Barcelona but without teeth up front didn't make us feel better because Moyes had always said we needed a striker but couldn't afford one. So he knew what was needed and that's his job. Providing the cash isn't.
Alex Ferguson said more about Everton's prospects at the beginning of last season than Moyes ever did when he said he thought we were in with a chance as we now had a strong squad! 24 year rule...bring it on hey!
Thinking carefully about it, I can't imagine any half-decent manager entertaining taking Moyes' place at Everton. Who would come here given the financial strictures at the club? More to the point, what manager would come here and do a better job than Moyes has done given those financial limitations?
Clubs like West Ham and Birmingham have had more cash to spend over the years than we have and have gone down. Newcastle had squillions to spend and have been down and are still shite and still below us. Name me one manager who would have kept us up and kept us competitive and got us in Europe and took us to the new Wembley were the Shite have never been and brought us just a hint of some fucking decent footy now and again just like those pristine performances against City home and away last year.... and others. We all might have been a little worried in January but look were we ended up. Once again well into the top ten and missing Europe only because of the way the rules work. And if anybody can think of a manager who would do better than Moyes in these circumstances don't just give me a name because anybody can do that. Tell me why he would do better and tell me how he would make it better given he would have to work with what Moyes has....nowt.
And don't tell me either that it's all about his dour defensive attitude because as I say in my previous posts, Mourinho has exactly the same attitude and plays virtually the same system and he's the 'Special One' with the advantage of lots of cash to buy better players and a few trophies as a result. But even Chelsea can't beat us now.
Moyes can frustrate the hell out of me, especially when it comes to substitutions and standing on the touchline barking out orders like an anxious parent at a Sunday league match. But the job he has done at Everton, given the resources he has to work with, could not be bettered.
74 Posted 02/06/2011 at 16:01:03
But does anyone really believe Moyes should go through the season without making mistakes ? he`d be the first manager in history to do it if he does.
Michael if I`m really honest I only stayed after the Chelsea match because I felt the players owed the crowd appreciation, not the other way round.
The applaus for Moyes at the end was something quite seperate from the more restrained applause the players got, he walked slightly behind them - cynics may claim he was milking it - but it was his name they chanted, all sides of the ground.
My take on it is that people genuinely believe he makes fewer mistakes than other managers and are therefore more likely to forgive the ones he does make. . .thus far
I dont believe he is idolised like say a Duncan, but the majority - and it really is the majority - have a healthy respect for him.
And before the roof falls in, I`m just saying what I witnessed, I`m not saying everyone feels the same way
75 Posted 02/06/2011 at 16:40:17
How can tactics be blames for a fumble from the goalie, a sliced clearance that sets up a goal or goes in, a goalie that leaves a ball to be headed back into play, a missed penalty, ballooned last minut chances etc etc.
Tactics will get you so far but if the players let you down and there is no one of note to replace the player from the bench, what do you do?
His substitutions are usually crap but so are the players coming on....mostly
76 Posted 02/06/2011 at 16:39:44
1) Is Moyes in charge as the manager, and therefore controlling the destiny of the team? He makes mistakes: we win some, we draw lots, we lose some.
2) Is the manager more of a figurehead operating the lottery? He spins the balls provided to him to select the team, and watches where they fall during the game, incessantly screaming at them with zero effect? We win some, we draw lots, we lose some.
Is there a difference? You guys lauding praise all over Moyes credit him for the limited success (Model #1) but let him off Scott-free [sic] for his (in my view) abject failures. If he's really not responsible for the failings, then it has to be Model #2 that applies...
Which one is it?
77 Posted 02/06/2011 at 16:52:23
Once again, he can't control mis-hit shots and failed clearances. He is not a God, that much is evidently clear.
His control is of formation not form.
78 Posted 02/06/2011 at 16:45:58
I agree with Moyes, I felt we had a good squad & had great hopes for the season. It's just a shame that it was only as we lost many of our best players & had to use the rest of the squad more that we seemed to get a better run of results.
We all know it's a long slow process wheeler-dealing your way to a decent squad without any money to spend, but that's the (well paid) job & Moyes does it rather well. I'm one of those who then gets a tad frustrated with what he gets out of his squad.
I also have a healthy respect for Moyes, but I honestly don't expect to ever see any silverware at Goodison Park whilst he's manager. However, I also agree with your comment as regards our Board. Until we some significant changes at Board level then Moyes is at least a safe pair of hands.
79 Posted 02/06/2011 at 19:32:05
There is clear difference between not accepting what at times is incredible criticism of Moyes and lauding praise all over him.
As Tony points out, there are people on here who seem to think every time we lose, it's down to Moyes`s tactics. somebody really needs to explain to me what that is about? It's an astounding claim... where does it come from? Evertonians are renowned for being far more knowledgeable than that.
Sure he`s made mistakes but if he was such a lousy tactician, how come some of the highest paid coaches in the history of the game have so much trouble beating him?
These critics complain about us being negative while ignoring the fact that 99% of the teams we play set out to flood the midfield in an attempt to stifle US.
They say Moyes plays players out of form but when he dropped three strikers who would have struggled in a brothel, they screamed the fucken house down. Some STILL haven't stopped whinging about it... it was six months ago ffs.
Besides he did it at Eastlands too and in the process became one of the very few managers ? if not the only one ? to get four points from the Boleyn and Eastlands... so are all the other managers who failed to match that tactical idiots too?
And this playing players out of position whinge, where have these people been? Has there ever been a manager who doesn't do that? And not all of them have the excuse of working on a budget of zero and can't actually fill all the positions.
Then there's the 'money doesn't matter' argument, that's just priceless. Take a look not just at this league, but every other league in the world and guess what? The teams that can pay the top wages are the only ones in contention... but we are expected to agree with with people who blame Moyes because he has failed to buck the worldwide trend.
The playing field is so uneven these days. Moyes`s opponents can afford to pay the wages of much better players than he has at his disposal. It's no longer a question of whether Moyes can compete, it's a question of will these guys fuck up enough to let us get within striking distance.
It's not lauding praise on Moyes, Michael, it's merely an unwillingness to listen to the incessant and unrealistic criticism. It's an appreciation of what he`s up against.
Kenwright out !
80 Posted 02/06/2011 at 20:44:10
I genuinely believe Moyes to be a man of real dignity and honour and he always said he currently has no interest in leaving Everton for Villa or anyone else.
However, I wouldn't have blamed him if he had... in a similar way, I didn't blame Lescott for going.
81 Posted 02/06/2011 at 21:10:22
The likes of you continue to laud excessive praise over him for doing what is at best a mediocre job considering the ability of the resources he has had at his disposal. That he has mismanaged those resources is obvious to anyone with a footballing brain!
Moyes gets deserved blame for failing to get his players to play up to the level of their abilities on far too many occasions this season just gone. But you have excuses for them all. Why don't you entertain us by explaining how the loss of points in each of those games was in fact nothing to do with Moyes at all... whereas the victories were all down to him?
82 Posted 02/06/2011 at 21:50:21
And in doing that could you point to a team in any major league that has been more consistent in trying to break into such an elite than Everton..... despite having a conspicuous lack of resources?
The facts are staring us in the face. Four years ago Man City supporters were throwing seat cushions at the players because they were shite. Then they found a Sheik's wallet, bought a team and now they're a top four club and have just won their first trophy in 35 years and everybody expects them to be serious contenders for the league next season.
Is that down to the manager or the wad? If you think it was the manager do you think he could have made the transformation without the wad?
(Mind you Moyes' Everton have tonked them 7 times out of the last 8 but I'd better not mention that as I might be called an apologist!)
83 Posted 02/06/2011 at 21:55:18
You wont be able to find a post from me that lavishes excessive praise on Moyes . .thats because I havent written one. Thats were you go wrong, you really seem to believe that anybody who wont slaughter Moyes is an "apologist"
If you think all our defeats are down to Moyes`s tactics. or that he is the only manager who has played players out of form or utilised them in other positions then nothing I can say will alter your thinking
If you truely believe he isnt seriously disadvantaged when taking on the six managers who finished above him, you are in a very tiny minority not just amongst Evertonians, but amongst the football community in general.
And if you think anybody who doesnt accept you claims is an apologist then you are labeling an awful lot of Evertonians . .starting with the 35,000 who gave him such generous applause at the final game of the season
84 Posted 02/06/2011 at 23:22:52
85 Posted 03/06/2011 at 01:31:37
The truth is that Moyes standing lies somewhere between lavish praise and ridiculous criticism.
He builds decent squads, manages only decent returns from the level of the players at his disposal, and consequently we finished in a decent position.
He's midtable on a relegation budget which is fine and all, except he has built some decent teams - and criticism of what he's got out of them is justified. But that's simply taking his tactical skill in isolation of his other qualities and the failings of the club.
Be careful of what you wish for is oft used, and any change could well be a disaster. Or maybe a better man manager/tactician could take a Moyes squad and get better results out of them?
Personally, I'll hold him in very high regard when he eventually goes. Not the highest regard but, nevertheless, very high.
86 Posted 03/06/2011 at 09:04:07
It seems eveytime SAF's retirement is discussed, the Man Utd fans are queuing up to throw Moyes`s name forward as a replacement.
Now we hear reports today that ia recent pole conducted in the Birmingham Mail shows a whopping 44% want Moyes (Mark Hughes managed 5%) Imagine how many votes he would have had if he hadn't already ruled himself out... nearly as many as when the Geordies were calling for him in a similar pole when they sacked Big Sam?
87 Posted 03/06/2011 at 09:12:58
The point is Moyes does "quite well" with what he's got. But when you take into account his faults: crap team selection (Hibbert, no strikers up front); his crap man-management (Osman, Cahill, Yakubu, Beckford); his overly defensive cautious set-ups; his dithering reactionary tactics; the annual Everton rogering at Old trafford; his inability to prepare us for preseason; his preseason sulks and strops...
Maybe it's also fair to say SOMEONE COULD ACTUALLY DO FUCKING BETTER!
Just existing and finishing midtable maybe enough for some Evertonians but its not for me.
The lot of you need to grow some fucking balls.
88 Posted 03/06/2011 at 09:22:14
How is calling Moyes a useless twat going to make sure our goalie doesn't throw away a ball that he has already caught?
Crap team selection, Hibbert, the most European capped Everton player in history, great defender (shite going forward but we can't have everything)...
Crap man management? Who has complained about it? I'm glad the Yak is gone, Osman has a job for life as long as Moyes is here... how is that going to affect Ossie's mind poorly?
The annual rogering at Old Traffic... not always: we have also drawn there, I remember a certain McFadden goal. Also last season we were one among 17 who were "tonked" at Old Traffic.
I could go on but my extra balls are catching on the keyboard. He's not perfect, he's just quite good. Nothing more but some posters cannot grasp the reality that just because we don't seeth and foam at the mouth about someone, we do not think he is the next best thing since sliced bread.
89 Posted 03/06/2011 at 09:51:19
But untill we start banging the drums and stop settling for mediocrity we will always be where we are.
There are far too many many people on here "Happy and Content" with what we've got. We used to be fucking winners not also-rans.
Money or not ? people's attitudes and expectations have changed... not for the better.
90 Posted 03/06/2011 at 09:41:22
Bill Kenwright must have a little grin on his face every time he hears people like you and the editor claiming Moyes has the required tools for the job, despite all evidence to the contrary.
This may be our best squad in years but six other clubs have better squads.
As long as we have fans like you, who will blame the manager and ignore the fact that the chairman has given him less of a transfer kitty in which to purchase players than any other manager in the league, the board will never stump up.
Why should they? Every time you and the people who share your belief claim our manager has sufficient resources you absolve them rather than challenge them... grow some bollocks lad and try doing the latter, because every time you make this claim, you condone the board... and every time you condone the board you betray every matchgoer who parts with his 5-600 quid and sees fuck all of it spent on players.
Do you really believe there is some wonder guy out there who can suddenly take on these six clubs who finished above us, all of whom have better players than us, and all of whom will spend more than us AGAIN?
Everton are a very big and proud club and you people who not only choose to accept the pathetic amount of money made available to the manager, but actually shout from the roof tops that it's enough are killing us.
Take a long hard look in the mirror guys... and ask yoursleves who the real apologist are here.
91 Posted 03/06/2011 at 10:33:07
92 Posted 03/06/2011 at 11:26:10
93 Posted 03/06/2011 at 10:57:04
If I'm to give Moyes credit for our improvement in the latter part of the season, despite the loss of a number of first XI players, then I'm also going to be critical of the poor start/first half of the season. My criticism is not on the basis that we're no match for Barcelona, but in the context of Moyes managing the squad he has developed to best effect.
If we had a different Board, running the club better & offering Moyes more financial support, in turn enabling him to improve the squad further, then his performance would be assessed within a different context. Lack of money is an explanation as to why we have the squad we have but it shouldn't be used as an excuse when that squad underperforms.
94 Posted 03/06/2011 at 12:06:25
As ever, without resorting to name calling or telling other fans to "grow a pair", you put together a reasoned and fair criticism, I cant dispute what you say.
My point is this : if a top jockey is up against 20 other jockeys at the top of their profession and 6 of them were riding patently better horses, providing the jockeys riding the better horses do a reasonable job, is it unrealistic to expect him to finisher better than seventh ?
Sure Moyes made mistakes, every manager does, but he finished no lower than the people who are now criticising him expected him to ?
He needs a better horse
95 Posted 03/06/2011 at 12:56:30
We can all sit and hug, and play happy fucking families.
Lets see what 2011/12 holds because I'm calling it now....... it'll be exactly the same as the other fucking 9yrs.
96 Posted 03/06/2011 at 13:13:21
97 Posted 03/06/2011 at 13:24:53
I also think Tony's right about next season. Rather than challenging for Europe, we may well be in the battle for a top ten position.
98 Posted 03/06/2011 at 14:49:47
99 Posted 03/06/2011 at 16:28:51
They say there is the odd few who mention him, but they are hardly queuing up.
They live in Chester, and get the coach along with other Man u supporters. Going to one of the games they said the decision turned to who fans ( On the coach ) would want to take over, 2 or 3 mentioned Moyes, and that was out of a coach full.
They say that the the fans they speak to at the games etc, the consensus seems to be that the job is to big for him.
The first time this story was ever raised in the media, I mentioned it to them, they laughed, and my other half told me to behave myself!
100 Posted 03/06/2011 at 19:07:41
Every time the Man U job is mentioned, every single time, Moyes's name is thrown up not by anyone on here, but by a very large section of the Man U fan base, we've all heard them, a lot of them think he`s an absolute natural,
Now your inlaws might not want him, that's their perogative, but there's clearly a lot who do and they come on the radio and say so every time the subject is raised. I hate the club with a passion, so I really don't care, but maybe you should get your missus to ring up and tell them to behave themselves too, we might all get a bit of piece then.
101 Posted 04/06/2011 at 16:37:36
Only if Moyes stays.
102 Posted 04/06/2011 at 22:03:42
Next up, is Moyes solely responsible for every single defeat, no. Is he responsible for every single victory, no. Both sides in this sort of discussion trot out the various lines to support their view, and they nearly always ignore the other side. The manager is equally resonsible for the result whether it is a victory or a defeat. He can no more be blamed for a Tim Howard blunder as he can be praised for a Beckford wonder goal against Chelsea.
As for me being defeatist, not at all. If I was defeatist I would say that I could do nothing about the board and blame it all on the manager.
103 Posted 05/06/2011 at 05:55:52
So, not only are we now a feeder club for United, our supporters revere their supporters as being more intelligent and knowledgeable than us?
It's a bit like when your mum used to say, "So if Billy jumped off a cliff would you do it then?"... Good grief, is this what we have turned into.... "Well, United fans says he's good, so he must be?"
I beg to differ, he has created a great squad and managed to make the collective sum smaller than it's individual parts, his tactically game changing knowledge and reading of the game from the very beginning is crap, his defense-first policy is shit, Moyes needs to grow balls and fast. I'm more than happy to let him have yet another go, his 10th, to see if he has actually learned enough over 10 years to "Have a fucking go at teams at home"... play cautious away if you want, but fucking have a go at home, always.
If it's the same old shite from the start of next season, then he needs to sod off as soon as... Go on Moyesie, prove me wrong. I would genuinely love nothing more than to hear Dave Wilson, Ian Tunstead and Tony Williams telling me how wrong I was, I'm a big boy and can take being wrong, especially if it means the mighty blues are mighty once more. COYB
104 Posted 05/06/2011 at 10:43:02
Do you have some sort of mental block when you read posts posts that dont slaughter Moyes ? you always seem to attack a point you think they`ve made, rather than what they`ve actually said.
I hardly know any Mancs, never claimed I did, I just commented on the number of them who come on the radio calling for Moyes to succeed Ferguson... is that really so hard to understand?
Now you may revere Man U supporters or think of them as intelligent, but I`ve got no time for glory grabbing twats and I wish to fuck they`d stay off my radio.
These Mancs are no different to the Geordies and the Brummies who seem to want to get Moyes to their club. I heard yesterday that he`s the preferred choice of a lot of Spurs supporters too if Arry takes the England job.
If one of these clubs succeed in enticing him away, it will be quite a blow to the 35,000 Evertonians who showed their appreciation for the job he`s doing for us after the Chelsea game.
This has got nothing to do with anybody`s opinion on TW, these polls and radio phone ins are actually taking place, we all hear them and read about them, just as we saw the reception Moyes got from all sides of GP.
Seems Moyes is very near to pulling off the impossible ? he` s perilously close to fooling all of the people all of the time... reassuring to know he`s still not fooling you though.
If Moyes decides to go, it`ll be his loss, I wont lose any sleep, I`ll just throw my support behind the next guy.
Kenright Out !
105 Posted 05/06/2011 at 12:54:36
What if Kenwright was the Manager, would you support him or still want him out?
Kenwright, for all his failings, and he has as many as Moyes IMHO, used his own money to buy the club, by all accounts pretty much everything he had, and doesn't take a salary. Yet Moyes gets £60k a week and some believe is the Moyesiah despite the evidence in front of them.
Where you see Moyes is close to fooling most of the people most of the time, I see the emperors new clothes. You see, I see it as I sees it, not as how I am told by everyone else to see it, and certainly not blindly, making excuses for him every time.
Moyes Out! (Unless he grows some balls and attacks first, second and third... I won't hold my breath though.)
106 Posted 05/06/2011 at 13:38:04
I think you are in a tiny minority if you believe succes is possible with the funds Kenwright makes available to his manager ? whoever that may be.
And I think you are in a minority of one if you still believe Kenwright bought the club with his own money
107 Posted 07/06/2011 at 10:05:38
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