I was looking at the listings (from Deloitte I think) regarding the state of football finance.
Everton seem to have around the eighth highest turnover and spend a bit more than most (in percentage terms) on player wages.
Without keeping the exact figures we seem to finish somewhere in line with our expenditure and this leads me to ask the following:-
Does Kenwright ensure we spend on the team a good amount compared to earnings?
Does DM work miracles or does he just finish where his team should expect to related to expenditure?
Rob Hollis, Posted 13/06/2011 at 21:27:26
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1 Posted 13/06/2011 at 23:05:40
I want us to start the new season without any kind of hype from players and other pundits. In fact I would be delighted to named as potential candidates for relegation. We have seen what happens when hopes are raised with Moyes raving on about the best ever squad he has had etc.
This year I prefer to leave that kind of stuff to our dear neighbors. After spending an absolute fortune and anything less than a Champions league place would be catastrophic for them. Before a ball has been kicked they are already in the running for the premiership. At least, that is a bare minimum of what the entire Kop expect and half their players are spouting.
Just for once I would rather stay under the radar and start the new season with something not half as bad as last year.
2 Posted 13/06/2011 at 23:56:37
3 Posted 14/06/2011 at 01:37:22
4 Posted 14/06/2011 at 02:57:25
When you look at the ratios of matchday v broadcast v commercial, Arsenal have one of the lowest proportions of commercial revenue. But they still have a big sponsor deal, and sell merch? Okay, their ticket prices are high, and with a nearly always full 60k stadium, that will skew the figures somewhat, but it is in the huge amount of corporate hospitality that their matchday income really ratchets up.
For me the real concern is proportion of TV income versus total income. I haven't seen the figures, but I bet we are amongst the highest. The opportunity to increase matchday revenue is limited due to facilities at Goodison, therefore where do we go?
The sponsor deal with Thai Bev is up end of the forthcoming season. Will we get more than the 2.6m / year it's currently worth? Whilst there's a case for retaining an existing commercial partner for as long as possible, it can't be at the expense of too much if there's others out there willing to pay much more.
5 Posted 14/06/2011 at 06:59:23
6 Posted 14/06/2011 at 08:14:20
7 Posted 14/06/2011 at 08:37:35
If we are finishing around the places we should then a couple of seasons finishing higher and we could afford a better standard of player?
With success brings financial reward, Man Utd before Ferguson were almost sold to that ball juggling clown Knighton for a fraction of what they are now worth.
I aint saying its easy but if the clubs run well its not impossible to get in amongst the Champions League places and then finance will improve.
8 Posted 14/06/2011 at 10:09:37
It is a view that concedes ambition, delivering a match day as a passive "day out" where the result is as pre determined and scripted as one of BK's shows.
One might take a walk at Otterspool as an alternative - it's far cheaper and better for you.
Incredulous that such thoughts exist - admittedly it tends to be among forum dwellers rather than match goers.
9 Posted 14/06/2011 at 11:09:49
Maybe its the players who have stayed...Arteta, Cahill etc who are eating up the wages....
If so, maybe it time to shift some of the highest earners...
10 Posted 14/06/2011 at 11:16:00
So the point of football is to have unrealistic expectations, based on nothing but fantasy and emotion, and then play merry hell with all those 'at fault' for not matching up to the expectations that were unrealistic in the first place.
We go to the match HOPING to see a Fellaini-pirouette or a sublime Baines free-kick bulge the opposition net....we don't show a lack of ambition by keeping the expectations consistent with reality though.
11 Posted 14/06/2011 at 11:44:39
I used to have high expectations for Everton - I am nearly 50 now and having seen the great team of 80's that was the standard for myself.
My son always points out that he has never seen anything like I have and perhaps he never will. This put things in a little bit of persepctive for me as I thought the 80's team of Reid/Sheedy/Bracewell/Steven was the best I have ever seen.
We believed all the hype at the beginning of last season lets just see what transpires this season .COYB.
12 Posted 14/06/2011 at 13:26:32
It therefore follows that in no less than 66 of the 84 seasons stretching back to 1919,we have been amongst `the also rans`.
Now I write this not to denigrate our great Club`s record but purely to establish some realism amongst the message board regulars, too many of whom believe that based on our glorious past, we have a god given right to be a top four side.
Sadly,the reality is somewhat different and that is why we do Everton-and ourselves- no favours by EXPECTING success rather than HOPING for it.
Believe me,following our club becomes a lot more enjoyable once you accept that philosophy!
13 Posted 14/06/2011 at 14:52:59
BK seems to be doing quite well in terms of the cash he is allowing to be spent as well.
Having said that I certainly expect us to win every game and for our Manager to perform better than his budget and win us the league!
14 Posted 14/06/2011 at 15:43:21
He's consistently got top 6ish performances out of a squad assembled under wage constraints much more severe than peer teams. He's built the general level of technical ability up, in the team, from predominantly kick-and-rush to something approaching a decent passing game at least some of the time. Both accomplishments credit is due for.
Last season we saw, as a direct result of that, more teams coming to defend. Moyes, tactically, proved singularly incapable of coping with teams that wouldn't give us the space to exploit. Something which is scarcely believeable seeings they were the tactics he so successfully used to get us into the Champions League that one time. He HAD to see that consequence coming as a result of freer attacking football from his side.
All told its a B or, perhaps, B+ grade if you are willing to give him bonus points for spotting young talent early.
"Having said that I certainly expect us to win every game and for our Manager to perform better than his budget and win us the league! "
Likewise I HOPE we win every game. I EXPECT us to have a lot of tough matches across the season. I EXPECT a Moyes team to give 100%+ commitment and fight for each other on the pitch....when I see that I'm satisfied. Anything else is going to be guesswork so setting any expectation on it is a mugs game.
15 Posted 14/06/2011 at 17:14:09
16 Posted 14/06/2011 at 17:22:09
Probably every contributor to Toffeeweb has and will continue to provide more money to EFC than BK through their ticket and shirt purchases every season
BK has never actually put a single penny into EFC funds since he bought the shares in Club and as those shares weren't a new issue - as far as I know - the club did not get any cash from that either.
However we should all be grateful he doesn't take a salary for all the work he does. And never forget we are trying 24/7..bla bla bla bla bla
17 Posted 14/06/2011 at 18:32:15
18 Posted 14/06/2011 at 18:30:14
Regardless of what your perception of Kenwright as a Chairman is, in terms of monetary value your 500 quid season ticket and couple of shirt sales doesn't really compare to a chairmans salary that normally equates to 500K plus per season.
But hey, lets be honest. What we expect, is a chairman that takes no salary, and pumps every penny he has into the club right? And once he has been bled dry, we will call for his head and ask for the next 'saviour'.
It still baffles me as to why we haven't been sold yet, all we are asking for is that the new chariman puts all their money in without taking anything out for gods sake!!
19 Posted 14/06/2011 at 18:55:19
If we are to rely on DM's promises to lower the age of our squad then he must sign players or bring in one or two of our youngsters at the expense of the older players.....football evolves all the time and todays star is tomorrows hasbeen...we desperately need to bring in some fresh players to a/ Improve our squad and b/ excite the fans.
20 Posted 14/06/2011 at 19:08:54
Nothing else is good enough for me and I will criticise the board, players, manager unless we keep striving to be the best. I refuse to accept less yet alone to simply be a top 8 club.
21 Posted 14/06/2011 at 19:12:53
22 Posted 14/06/2011 at 19:47:47
23 Posted 14/06/2011 at 19:47:12
24 Posted 14/06/2011 at 19:15:25
The answer to your first para is - yes.
25 Posted 14/06/2011 at 20:14:46
26 Posted 14/06/2011 at 20:19:08
27 Posted 14/06/2011 at 20:39:08
28 Posted 14/06/2011 at 20:21:43
The only thing I will say, is that you are completely right in what your suggestions for sustainable growth are. However what you have stated, is just plain obvious to all of us. If it was just as simple as that, then the whole premiership would be raking money in hand over fist. But the reality is, that the Premiership does not operate in that environment, nor does UK football in general. I have always rated our club based on the environment it is in. And when we measure our finishing position against our spending, we have consistently performed as expected, with the blips of up and downs along the way. Compare that to the 5 years leading up to Kenwright taking over, and to me it shows improvement. Is it enough? Of course not, we need to keep moving forward. But the difference to go from relegation fodder to top 8 is merely a small step in comparison to the light year of top 8 to Title contenders.
29 Posted 15/06/2011 at 08:48:58
If we start being happy with eigth and dont set are sights higher we run the risk of getting left even further behind.
Ime quite sure Moyes is not happy finishing seventh so why should we be?
I expect us to beat any team at Goodison which we are capable of so when slip ups happen it pisses me off and i complain.
In any case you finish in a position by how well you perform on the pitch not by how much you spend or how much wages you pay.
If a crop of youngsters are brought through there not going to be earning big bucks, there is a lot more to it than spending big imo.
30 Posted 15/06/2011 at 09:24:11
31 Posted 15/06/2011 at 12:16:59
If BK had the audacity to take money out of Everton for the part-time "work" done plus all the benefits in kind he gets, whilst never having put one penny of his own money in, then that would finish me with EFC.
And let's be quite clear about the Chairman's role which should be to set the agenda, the strategy, the vision and provide the means of accomplishing it. This isn't and absolutely should not be a full time hands on Operational role.The Exectiuve team including the Manager then have to implement their plans to deliver this operationally. This is how any Successful organisation MUST work. To my mind we don't have any Long Term strategy, we live week to week, month to month and season to season. The responsibility for this culture is ALL Kenwright's
Gavin #21 is bang on the money with what is required..but those people who bang on about what he hasn't done ie sellout to a shark and that we should all be Grateful for that, astound me. Is that the measure of the man we should be using? I think not.
32 Posted 16/06/2011 at 11:33:09
@Richard Dodd 12
Fair points but would you agree that in the years before the present administration there was always hope that maybe next season things could change.How many of "our competitor clubs" (Elstone was happy to use this term at the Public Inquiry) would settle for our lot on the infinite basis you imply we should.
33 Posted 16/06/2011 at 15:02:05
...and the quality of performances on the pitch, across the season, is directly related to the depth of quality in the playing squad.
That quality comes at a price and is always reflected in the wage bill.
Simple fact mate is that there is no-one with a lower wage bill than us higher in the end of league standings. For odd matches, or even short runs, a Blackpool or a Reading can punch well over their weight but the lack of quality all over the pitch always tells in the end.
We have assembled a quality side for suprisingly little money compared to the rest of the top half of the league. Thats why Moyes is coveted by those teams who'd like to be a bit more competitive but cant, or wont, shell out like Spurs or Liverpool to do it.
34 Posted 16/06/2011 at 21:23:22
It's frustrating for me to search the press and websites and see club after club being linked with this player and that player, some having already signed additions to their squads.... we do absolutely nothing. Nero fiddling while Rome burned comes to mind...
Lots of clubs have debt but can you imagine what would happen to us if we were relegated without trying to improve our squad? We DESPERATELY need to refresh our squad and empty out players who have been allowed out on loan or are so injury-prone that they are a drain on our finances. We also need replacements coming through to take over from Neville, Hibbert, Arteta, Cahill and Distin.
BK is a FUCKING OSTRICH and will do nothing unless forced... I still reckon Fellaini was a panic signing because of all the stick over missing out on Moutinho and others. DM is sticking it out so far because he has a good salary and safe job... BUT ambition will come to the surface someday soon and he could well get fed up and move away. Players of international standard want to win things and a football career is relatively short; we can hang on to the mediocre players and those who are coming to the end of their careers but, unless we show ambition, I can see others deserting us. Be warned the Ides of March!!!
35 Posted 17/06/2011 at 08:16:07
At the moment we have missed out on who? Nolan??? FFS what do we want with that red-hued beaut?
Demba Ba? A bloke who wants a serious wage packet and has enough of a medical history that Pulis wouldn't touch him! Yeah, we really need a prominent striker being paid big money to sit on the treatment table dont we?
We're not even in July yet, all of our major talents, barring Fellaini, are on seriously long contracts, no-one has expressed any public unhappiness with the club recently and we aren't staring down the barrel of a player exodus Aston Villa style... are we?
Nero may be fiddling but Rome isn't even smouldering yet. We are stable, for the present, which actually places us in a better state than a few big name clubs. We have got time for someone with fresher ideas than the present halfwits on the board to come along... which is vital because the kneejerk idiocy of chucking one lot out without a good replacement standing ready can't be tolerated by anyone capable of feeding themselves surely?
Don't let any of those things stand in the way of you having a really good bitch and moan though, Trevor, yeah? Good therapy, eh?
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