The Moyes Conundrum

All the names tossed about whenever there's an opening? Put their names in a hat and pick one. Little difference who you pick. Managers/Head Coaches are way, way over-rated. Any sport. It's the quality of the players that counts.

But a few do matter and Kenright lucked into one of them; Moyes. If he's re-signed, I'll be happy. If our extremely rich owners don't give him some few millions (by EPL standards) to keep and enhance the team, what difference does it make who manages the Club?

What I mean by that is the mythical attacking, strategic master mind type manager we would all love to see won't come to a club like Everton as long as the current board refuse to spend money.

I know Moyes is on good money but I can't think of many top class managers who would sign up at a club with our exposure and risk having to get results on the smell of an oily rag.

Moyes isn't the greatest of managers but like it or not he is consistent and that's all this board and a good portion of the fan base want. Sad to say...

Man U typically have a strong defence which is why they have won so many trophies in the past though they did concede 4 goals v us and 6 goals in their derby this season.

Anyway, the editor was right to fish it out. A superb article, written by an obviously keen observer of the game.

The manager has a tendency to be too defensive

The players aren't consistent enough, as Si points out, sometimes they are brilliant, the other dire.

The board for not giving the manager funds to push forward instead of always tying to replace our better player when sold with prospects.

It's not just one cog, it's the whole machine

Under Moyes, how many times have we seen Everton freeze when it matters? When we go 1-0 up in the first half against better teams, inevitably we end up with an isolated striker and a mass defence. Now sometimes this has worked, eg Spurs at home last season, but even when it has been successful it has been more by luck than anything else.

You need to go back a number of years to realise that this isn?t just the current team problem. Years ago we played Man U at Goodison and went 3-0 down & then came back to 3-3. At this stage Man U were on the ropes, confidence drained, all the momemtum was with the home side and you?d expect EFC to go for the winner. Instead we sat back, trying to hold onto a draw and got beat 4-3.

Now I am pretty sure that Moyes didn?t tell them to sit back but it?s built into the team that the emphasis is always on defence. In some ways we are so scared of getting beat that we end up to scared to go for a victory.

Obviously the biggest damnation of Moyes tactics is that in the P/L we still haven?t won away against the original big four ? what more needs to be said?

If you see football as true competition where on any given day the money league idea is discarded other things come into play. I adhere to Danny Blanchflowers comment that the game (indeed all sport) is about glory.
Courage, wit, invention, surprise and innovation all play their part in that most glorious of events - defying the odds.

My biggest criticism of Moyes is OVERALL there is little of that in what he does.

Dour predictability approximating to where are finances are in the league pervades our thinking. This present EFC could not do what Big Joe did in smashing the much fancied Spurs in the semi final and beat a Utd in a cup final, it just isn't designed that way.

Being Everton means nothing, read any forum from any club the same criticisms, desires and arguments prevail, my simple argument is 10 years of what Moyes provides ie top mid table without glory is enough for anyone.

It's not about winning the league, getting CL or any of the spoofery quoted by his fans it's about someone bringing vision, excitement and yes, some glory to our Goodison.

Not just against better teams Brian, but mostly against lesser teams.

Also we defied the odds by getting beat by QPR, Blackburn etc

2 of our goals were scored deep into injury time. That's hardly sitting back is it?!

For me, I'd just like to see a team go out, without fear of the opposition and play to their potential, excite the crowd and excite me, not bore me to death most of the time. I want to enjoy watching the mighty blues again and be proud of the way they went about it, not embarrassed and deflated for the most part.

I wonder whether this year IS the year Moyes finally figures this out and goes for it from the off, puts attack before defense and takes it to everyone. Surely even he must be fed up of the same old same old. If Moyes destroys Jelavic like I believe he has so many strikers before him then god help us all. I've seen Rush, Lineker and Wayne Clarke, Jelavic is simply the best finisher I have ever seen, if he can't get 20 goals with the players at our disposal then Moyes has no place at Goodison.

I'm prepared to give Moyes ANOTHER chance, don't fuck it up, go out and be positive from the off, fuck this 40 points target, I want Champions League footy before I die.

Everyone back for corners, pack the midfield, keep your shape, track back, keep the other team from scoring rather than us going at them - especially the Sky top four / six of the day. Forget all hope away from home against these teams.

When we have had a pasting (that 6-1 by the Arse on the opening day still haunts me) it sends Moyes back into his shell, and back to KITAHTN1 mode.

He definately does not want his reputation to suffer, and will never try to change now ? it's too late.

So, get used too 4-5-1, the magical 40-point marker as our ambition, and decent footy the last few games, when the pressure is off.

It's in the decisions and choices Moyes often makes that frustrates us most I think. NOTHING to do with money, FFS!!!!

No matter who is the manager, if he is not provided with sufficient funds to enable progression, then the only way is down!

I hated the style of play we had when we seemed to only score at set pieces and generally played to stifle other sides with better players.

But, what was the alternative? If we had played expansively we would have lost more games and consequently been sucked into relegation dog fights.

Mr Moyes has actually played to whatever strengths we have had to enable survival and unfortunately it made us one of the least attractive teams to watch.

We are probably the only club to achieve a top four position with a negative goal difference and, once we played against top opposition in Europe, we were found wanting.

I would rather attain a top ten finish and avoid playing in Europe as we DO NOT have the squad to compete effectively.

Once again, we have shown little interest in signing someone quickly, as DM stated he required to enable progress.

We consistently provide 'Jobs' for the likes of McFadden and Hahnemann who cost very little to patch over the squad deficiencies.

Our youngsters must be really poor if those has-beens are preferred as bench warmers.

In conclusion, I would say that no other manager would have achieved as much with so little, in my opinion.

Eric (984), I agree with you, it isn't just the top teams that we sit back when we are 1-0 up. It is just that it is more noticeable against the top teams because we are under constant pressure.

Trevor(020) you state: "But, what was the alternative? If we had played expansively we would have lost more games and consequently been sucked into relegation dog fight."

Admittedly we may lose more but we would also win more. Few people are saying that we should play like Blackpool, ie, all out attack. My view is we should try to win games rather than trying not to lose games ? there's a huge difference!

You mean me? Can't recall where I "defend Moyes to the hilt". I watch every game I can, yelling "attack, attack, attack", every time we have possession and "Hit the fucking thing. Let the keeper worry about it", whenever we're in or near the box (found myself needing to do so less and less second half of the season). Who am I yelling at, though? Not Moyes, the players.

I rate Moyes, nothing more or less, and would like to see him retain those we finished with last season and get some kind of budget to augment the squad.

"Why not get an enthusiastic person who exudes confidence instead of someone who comes over all dour and dull"?

Not sure what that means. Like life's-a-barrel-full-of-monkeys Wenger perhaps? Davy doesn't come across dour and dull to me. Now, Peter Barry . . . . .

I have it on good authority that Moyes has already told Levy where to go because he wants to win something with us.....it must be true, I have just made it up now.

Barry @979 - agree with regard to Blanchflower's comments about glory and, in the context of this post, I just wish DM would put the conservatism aside when we play a big match and take a "screw them"/ attacking / get stuck in / approach - especially in Merseyside derbies.

The difference now from the Blanchflower era is the Leeds scenario. The downsides of not surviving in the top flight for Everton would be far bleaker than in Blanchflower's era. It's a safety first approach due to hamstrung finances.

As Trevor @020 states - no manager would have achieved as much with as little. It's a viewpoint I agree with but sums up the "conundrum" nicely. Also, would prefer the Vellios of this world given more of an opportunity to the McFaddens.

(P.S. Can't comment on the "Sky Bullshit" part of the article as I don't have Sky. However, if they're in the same mould as TalkSport then I won't be getting it even if I have a big lottery win. Is the typical TalkSport listener a southern, Sun-reading, white van driver or am I just stereotyping?)

38 games 93 goals.

'Stability is boring.....'

How true. A big slice of the side of me that wants Moyes out comes from a destructive bent for change, just to scratch the 'can we do better...?itch. Not proud of it but it's definitely there.

Jim Harrison - worry not, the majority of Spurs fans have grossly elevated ideas of their standing. I had a debate with a mate (Spurs fan) over who was the bigger club, he was absolutely go smacked when I put 9 titles on the table, had no idea.

Spurs over performed under Redknapp, especially in the start of last season, and their underperformance in the end took them to about where they belong. I think they're looking at 5th or 6th at best next year, if they lose Bale and Modric and manager flops then even lower. Normal service resumed.

Redknapp spent over £80m net in 4 years. If Moyes had £80m to spend I think we'd sleep walk into the Champions League spot to be honest.

So - like we've said so many times before - start the season how we finished the last, get our heads down and why not Champions League next year?

COYB.

Show me his article in October when were 16th. :D

In fact ALL the London teams were seen as soft touches away from home and that included West Ham with Bobby Moore etc. The only London team to have performed well throughout their history is Arsenal... Chelsea and the Hammers have mostly been also rans.

Liverpool as a city has won more trophies than any other city in England including London with their many clubs. But then, every dog has it's day!!

Fans remember Moyes losing 4-3 8 years ago, but forget the 3-3 when jags had a chance to score and the ref blew. Try not to re-write history on this one.

If it take's a man and a half, a day and a half, to dig a hole and a half - how many holes are there in the 'He he hardy ha Great Wall of China'?

'Lay, Lady, Lay " Bob Dylan.

That's part of it, isn't it...?

These posts WILL NOT be binned btw. They're bloody brilliant :D

Defensive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's us?

Off to work he other one out...

In general you have to be right. Substance trumps style in this game of football. West Hammers crave style, though most of them have never seen it in their lifetime. In the end, the end justifies the means. For most of the year I live amongst Man City supporters - great lads who have seen them through it all - and they couldn't give a monkey's about fuck all now that they are "Champions". Substance.

Barcelona is an anomaly in European football. The fact that the hated (and sitting here in Catalunya, I know what I mean) team from Madrid took the title has to tell us something about football in general. A local version goes something like 'Barca will pass you to death, but Madrid will stab you through the heart'. Messi (love the guy) or Ronaldo - be honest now, who would you take?

Sky? A trashy arm of a corrupt empire that attempts to influence which government we have. With some success. I know that some amongst us pay for that privilege. That's entirely up to them. Not me.

To go back to an early point you made. I think Wenger has hardly progressed from the squad he inherited (the back 4 being the mainstay) and Moyes making the best of what he inherited being the blueprint for years to come. And in both cases it works. Big houses in the country assured, they are both in charge of top teams.

Must get you a parking space somewhere.