Finance is the primary focus

Here's an account I found on the web:

I was there today and was very impressed indeed.

The presentation by Colin Fitzpatrick was terrific.

Howard Kendall was there, but did not speak on Blue Union's behalf, nor did he condemn or endorse the preceding presentation.

His one comment on the presentation before him was to note that financial problems at Everton were nothing new, and that back when Everton signed Peter Reid in 1982, Everton had to change their bank from the Midlands Bank to the TSB, because the Midlands Bank wouldn't sanction the £60,000 fee.

The issue about using Kendall etc is really overblown. The place was packed, and if anything, I saw a few people leaving when Kendall took to the stage. Even if people did come to just see Kendall, they still sat through a 45 minutes plus presentation to begin with. The whole point of organising a meeting is to get people to attend in numbers and listen. People did, and people applauded after the presentation was made and after various points from the floor.

I'm glad I went; it didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know, but to see the figures on the big screen, talked through by Col, well.... it made me so angry that more people are not up in arms about how OUR club is being utterly run into the ground. The comparisons with Spurs drew gasps from some crowd members and rightly so, downright embarrassing it was.

When you attend something like that today, it just baffles me how someone can deliberately stay away from something like that, and castigate the people involve for their efforts without even meeting them. If it wasn't for those guys today, highlighting how shit OUR club is run, we'd simply be sleepwalking into becoming the next Sheffield Wednesday. Lose Moyes anytime soon and I personally think that will become a reality within 5 years.

I attended yesterday, the first Blue Union meeting I've attended and I was very impressed. The financial presentation was very well put together and, despite some questions on the idea of running a comparison with Spurs, it did serve to highlight how poorly the club has been run over the past 11 years.

The presentation regarding the fans parliament was equally interesting. It amazes me that a club that has for years prided itself on being The People's Club doesn't have something like this in place. Yes, there is the Fans Forum but the agenda for that is run by the club and not the supporters.

Overall, a very interesting day and I look forward to the next meeting to see how things have progressed.

It pains me to see the opposition from people who haven't actually attended these meetings. To be called a kopite and a closet red (which I have been called a lot since I attended) is insulting to me, but not as much as the person who questoned my support for the club because I attended this meeting. Before you question anything, how about attending yourself and listen to what they have to say? If you don't like it, fair enough!

I went yesterday, not because of Howard Kendall, the FA Cup or because I thought the Blue Union had all the answers; I went because I wanted to hear what they had to say and what they were about.

Two things came across: Firstly, they are passionate Evertonians who are doing what they believe is best for Everton's future. Secondly, the presentation by Colin Fitzpatrick was excellent.

The breakdown of Operating Costs was frightening, Finch Farm costs around £9 Million per year, I cannot understand how or why it does, but it does. (Even if you argue the figures are incorrect, that £9 million has to be allocated somewhere. The other costs were listed as mundane things like ticket office costs, utility bills etc and couldn't explain the £9 Million.)

Kenwright said Everton will lose around £5 Million per year for the foreseeable future, given we lost around £4 million this year and that included the proceeds from Bellefield, then you'd imagine that we'll lose around £13 million or so each year, unless of course we sell players to cover these costs.

The Blue Union came across well, they didn't slag anyone off, they concentrated on facts. It's sad that people come on forums like this and slate them without actually finding out what they have to say.

They don't have answers to the problems besetting the club, but at least they are trying.

All that is necessary for the triumph of imcompetence is that good men do nothing.

I am looking forward to reading the full report on the meeting, including the breakdown of "other operating costs". I would have loved to attend, but its pretty hard to make it there and back to work the next day when you live in Australia.

Yes, The Blue Union don't have all the answers - but they don't claim or pretend to either. But given that the current board and CEO are so obviously failing, and are unwilling to discuss their failings on any tangible level, the Blue Union are trying to seek some answers with the help of fans and experts.

Their whole agenda is to involve all us fans in an effort to realise a realistic approach to securing a future for our club. They wish to help the current board facilitate the sale of Everton to someone or some group who will move the club forward in a positive and sustainable manner.

The Blue Union have probably made some mistakes, and will almost certainly make more, but they are trying to listen and learn and get others involved and evolve to produce the best ideas and initiatives possible.

Ultimately the Blue Union may fail. They may end up a wasted experiment, but given that Everton is already failing at a board room and financial level, there is nothing to be lost in getting involved, but a whole lot that can be gained.

I really hope more Evertonians come to realise this, and get involved. The more people actively supporting the Blue Union, the better the possible outcome for our club.

I know I sound like a stuck record but to me the key to everything is the price that BK and his associates are seeking for the club. If there was some indication of that then supporters and independent shareholders would be able to come to a reasonable conclusion as to whether the club genuinely was (and has been) for sale. Whilst this information seems to be a very closely guarded secret people are bound to assume that things are not exactly as stated by the current board.

I think the first step for any meaningful change is for pressure to be placed from all directions for some indication of the asking price to be made public.

The Blue Union lose all credibility with their mis placed hero-worship of the worst manager in the history of the club.

When did we last win at Liverpool or United or Chelsea or Arsenal?

When did we last TRY to win at those clubs?

How many lower division clubs have we lost to in cup competitions in the last 10 years?

We have gone from two forwards up front to one forward up front to one midfielder up front. Shortly it will be one Defender up front. If ever Jags scores a hat-trick in training then you know what will happen.

I urge the Blue Union to campaign for Moyes to either be sacked or not to have his contract renewed at the end of next season.

"The Blue Union lose all credibility with their misplaced hero worship of the worst manager in the history of the club"

Ian #6. That's some statement. "In the history of the club?" I'm sure that there are many in Blue Union who have their criticisms of Dave Moyes.

However, I think that the ability of the manager is not the question here. The Blue Union, form what I see are not advocating undyiong support for Moyes, nor are they advocating his dismissal.

They are pointing out that the club is being run by a chairman and a board who are not, by any stretch of the imagination, running it successfully. I'd have loved to have heard the presentation by Colin Fitzpatrick (and I hope it is published) as he has come on ToffeeWeb on numerous occasions and put forward a case which,as yet, I've never seen effectively countered.

So, at the moment, as long as David Moyes keeps us in the Premier League, which he has mostly looked like doing, the type of football we play is secondary to whether we are able to stay in existence. No manager can be be expected to do much more when there is no money for players.

Personally, I think Davey (if the red jessies can get the echo calling Dagliesh, Kenny, why don't they call Moyesy Davey? Anyway, as I was saying, personally, I think Davey) is far too defensive and sometimes the football on offer is dire. But that pales into insignificance when we have a Chairman who loses us the Kings Dock and then wants to hang on to his train set. He may wish to sell now but my guess is that his "two friends", Earl and Green would expect considerably more than the club is worth.

Please forgive the typos, fingers too large...or keys too small!

"The Blue Union lose all credibility with their mis placed hero-worship of the worst manager in the history of the club."

Mike Walker?

I am sure that the figures put forward at the meeting were a true and accurate account, which nobody disputes, which includes the present board.

As the first poster commented there was nothing new being said, but he reckons it had more of an impact displaying the figures on the screen. I think this is the second public meeting held by the Blue Union, and they have had very little support. Either in attendances at meetings or their recent march.

I can well understand the frustration that we all feel about our financial situation. I also think that they would have been better served to have agreed with BK at their original meeting to keep the dialogue open with the Chairman. Although there wasn't any agreement in place about not divulging what was said at the original meeting, and indeed the Blue Union could rightly claim that it was their duty to inform the fans of what was said at the meeting. I am afraid this stopped any chance of further meetings.

Pure Spinal Tap - we need to remove the board, find a billionaire and build a new stadium but first, we'll sort out the bastards at the Oldham Echo... I was unable to attend this meeting, but were any of the follwoing points addressed?

1) Shortlist of potential buyers
2) Possible locations of new stadium.
3) Plan to re-develop Goodison Park.
4) Plan of how to remove Kenwright and give him his £11 million quid back.
5) Financial efforts to buy out the current board.

If I go to the owner of the company where I work and list a load of problems but no solutions, he'll tell me to piss off.

If we get relegated this season, there will be uproar and the board could be ousted. If we finish 6th or 7th and have a reasonable run in either of the cups, the majority of fans will be happy. That's about our level.

I see the Blue Union as nothing more than a bunch of moaners who bring nothing to the table. I doubt they represent a significant proportion of the fans.

Unfortunately unable to attend due to personal matters from derby weekend but await a transcript to read.

Ian, fair play to your perspective on the BU as you are entitled to an opinion but the BU isn't an employee of Everton FC or a major shareholder so, as such, the analogy of them going to their boss with a load of problems and no solutions isn't a valid one. They are part of the fanbase and have opinions they wish to vocalise through their democratic right of free speech. If people choose not to agree or align to those views, that is an equally valid democratic right.

Ian Linn ? Why do the likes of you come on sites like this and ridicule honest Evertonians who are trying to find a way forward?

They admit they haven't got all the answers, but they're entitled to be unhappy, and care more than you!

Why?

Because they have got off their arses and interviewed the inept one, and showed him up to either be the most gullable man on the planet, or the lunatic running the asylum. Either way, they care more than you do.

I attended the first meeting and have been asked to join them at there next meeting, and will do anything I can to get this great bastion of football back to were it belongs. What are you doing? aside from sneering, moaning and making snide remarks?

Do us a favour Ian, ? if you say you wish that things could be different, then don't mock Evertonians who are trying to bring about change.

Ian Linn # 11, I disagree with your view that the BU are only moaners. Step by step they are clarifying the financial situation and highlighting the board's inability to deal with it.

I agree with your statement that a positive feasible alternative is required. Unless that is forthcoming, the BU is pissing in the wind.

Gavin,
Point taken but then if they have no direct affiliation with Everton FC, what can they possibly hope to achieve?

If, say, the BU had 1,000 folk turn up to this meeting, then they would represent approx 3% of a home game's supporters, not mentioning all the Everton fans who attend few or no games, so voicing their discord is fine but it will have absolutely no effect on anything at EFC.

Do I wish things were different, do I wish we had money, do I wish we didn't have to sell players ? god damn fucking right.

What we need is a buyer to come in a with a lot of money but frankly, if someone wanted to buy a football club, there are loads more attractive propositions out there than Everton.

What we have at the moment could be a lot worse ? take a look down the road at Blackburn.

Robert.

Simple answer - trying isn't enough. Why wasn't the first job the BU had getting a clear mandate from the fans, at least a sizeable percentage, to act in their name.

It's all half-arsed. Kendall? Did he even get asked to speak on the topics of interest to those pursuing the BU agenda? Comparing us to Spurs in finacial terms... are you kidding? Why not Villa... a far more genuine comparison.... because the gulf isnt quite so stark maybe?.

First order of business has to be the clear, unequivocal right to talk on behalf of the fanbase. Second has to be SERIOUS fund-raising to start doing the things no-one else seems willing to do. Commissioning PROPER studies on proposals like the Football Quarter. Proper COSTED projections of stadium upgrades at Goodison. Land searches and design studies for a minimum-cost stadium to give us a, say 10k, seat uplift over Goodison plus the 60-70 executive boxes were likely to be targetting to fill.

You see the difference between what needs to be happening and cake-presenting clowns?

Ian Linn,

I assume by your comments that you consider the efforts of Blue Union and any other concerned evertonian who are willing to try and force this board to either invest in our club or sell up.

Are you saying that because it only represents 3% it will have no effect on the club, they should not bother? 1000 people were concerned enough to march the other week. I was one of the ones who didn't have the bottle to march but will on the next one. The red jessies had not many more than our lads and lasses marching and the Oldham Echo gave them, front page news. So it might be around 1000 now, though I think it's many more, but some bad results and more will join.

By the way, could you give a list of all these clubs who are a much more attractive proposition than us?

Ian, just a point that came up at the meeting. The point of what Bill is asking for the club. He says he's been working to sell...for 11 years now. You mention Kenwrights £11m quid back. that's the issue, and this is not a go against Kenwright, it's also the board, they all want a return on investment. But how can you expect a return when you have taken a profitable club and driven it to debt....how can you still expect a return on your money? No other business would allow it (or in the UK banking system maybe yes!)

The fact is that Kenwright is asking for around £100m. Granted, that's a rumour but anything above his £11m would go against his "don;t take a penny, greatest fan status".

The fact is, we have no ideas for ground development, no ideas to move forwards and Bill has stated we'll lose £5m a year. Great way to sell a business.

And points 1-5 are for the board to deal with not the fans. We're in no position to deal with those issues but we're trying to get a voice in how they're handled. And as an asset to the club that pays more in per season than any director, I believe we should have that voice.

That's why I support the Blue Union

Steve Jones,
with an analytical brain like yours I'm sure that the Blue Union would appreciate any help you could give them in providing a business plan. They want to see an Everton Football Club that has a vision and a business plan to get it to where it belongs. I'm sure you could help provide it. This lot in charge plainly can't.

#16 Steve

All very good points but these guys are running on a budget. This isn't their job, they're not getting apid for it, this is out of love for the club and they're trying their best.

Kendall was never going to talk on the issue, he has an Echo column and Kenwright would ban him (which would have been interesting).

These guys are running against a big corporate communications department, who have decided that rather than communicating with fans they'd throw abuse against anyone who doesn't toe their line. Hence we see and hear from Bill about 3-4 days before any meeting or march.

They're small and trying to get a voice for supporters, and to me that's no bad thing. We keep the club in business, we should have a voice.

It makes me chuckle when people bang on about the BU not having a viable business plan to buy & run the club.

As fans, don't they have the right to point out the incredible failings of the current custodians?

I don't believe they have said they represent the majority of Evertonians either.

If you think the current board are going to take the club in the right direction, then good luck.

Personally, I only need to know we haven't signed a player for two years, that's enough evidence we are run by a gang of fuckwits.

Robert,

The efforts of honest Evertonians (bu) aren't going enywhere because they have no empowerment. Nil. Nada. They have no stake and no financial backing which is what Everton needs.

Bill Kenwright cannot be the most inept man on the planet as he is a self made millionnaire - he has made more money than me and I would guess (though I have no evidence) more money than yourself.

I do care and this is what I would do. If shares of Everton were offered at a grand apiece, I would buy some. If I could own a small part of Everton, I would do.

Can you tell me if the bu have full acess to Everton's accounts for the last 2 years?

Ian #22

Accounts are public and at companies house so yes they would do, the recent accounts are still with auditors though as year ens was 31st of May but they will be realised soon

Steve #16
Liked the post..you SOUND like you know what you are talking about..but so do most of us clowns on here. So if you can make a difference..why arn't you?

Kevin,
Thanks for that, I was not aware of it.

From the accounts, we will see approx. 70% of the income goes to player's wages.

Answer me this question, would you have given Arteta 70K a week with a new contract, let him go on a free or sold him for 2m when he had 6 months left on his current contract.

Kevin,

I know they are running on a budget mate I'm putting time in to flesh out some ideas on fund-raising to work towards the kind of war-chest that will let the BU operate as it needs to and be treated with more respect for it.

The big BUT is that the BU has to have the popular appeal to make the big fundraising projects worthwhile. They have to have the mandate.....the basic numbers in the fanbase.....to bring it off. Without that theyre just pecking round the edges and will never be taken much more seriously than any of the individual groups preceeding them were.

Seeing that the BU represent the combined force of our strongest pressure groups watching them flop about like a landed fish is going to do more to reinforce the boards position than anything else as they'll know they've bollocks all to worry about. Simply they have to get that mandate.

Very good, Steve, why don't you have a go, and I'll support you.

Point is, who else is trying?

Why do they need a clear mandate to speak on behalf of the fans?

There a group of fans who aren't happy with the way the club is run. Can they not protest?

They're speaking about themselves and their supporters. They're not portraying to speak for everyone!

As for the comparison to Spurs, what's wrong with that? They weren't in a better financial position than us when Kenwright took over? But, because they are now, we can't highlight that?

KEIOC are part of the Blue Union, and have done proper studies and are working on the football quarter?

Finally, Steve, "Tying isn't enough..."??? Just think that one through steve... "Trying isn't enough"?

As a name sake once said, if it at first you don't succeed, try and try again.

Give them and me a break, and do something yourself.

Now where's that cake...?

Ian, you've pointed out a massive thing there, and moving away from any issue about board or Bill, the wages are a joke!

Yes, 70% goes on player wages which is unbelieveable! Something really needs to be done football wide to stop this growing situation. The idea of 70% of revenue going on the players is a joke!

Although, going back to the point in hand the club said 85p from the £1 was going to Finch Farm, not quite, 70p is going to the players.

In answer to your question £70k for Arteta at the way he was playing? No

The accounts surrounding Finch Farm worry me. Despite seeing the figures I still can't believe it and I think there must be something else in there. To go from owning Bellefield @ £300,000 annual running costs to leasing Finch Farm @£8m annual costs is a joke. I really hope the figures are wrong, otherwise we have some seriously incompetant people at the club. Put that next to the Kitbag deal!

Steve #26

Spot on Steve, I agree, but how does that happen?

The BU made a mistake on Saturday with Kendall and the FA Cup. It attracted fans but I imagined they thought those fans would stay, they didn't. But they did get to see the financial presention. They should have put the fans parliament presentation in there as well.

They don't have support from local media and let's be honest, they're supporters. No one is qualified in bringing it forward.

There is massive oppisition, God knows I've had enough abuse for attending. How can you bring it forward when the powers that be ban journalists that speak to the BU? The Echo stays away because they know Goodison will ban them again. How to fight against that?

Wish I knew, but I get what you're staying, they're flopping around on the edges at the moment and the Kendall, FA Cup stunt doesn't help.

Kevin,
So you would have let him go on a free or sold him for the same kind of money we got for Pienaar. Imagine the outcry that would have caused amongst fans - accusations of having no desire to take the club forwards, selling our best assets, not thinking of the future et al.

So the board took the other step, they paid him no doubt what Arteta himself and his agent thought he could get. I don't recall huge rumblings from the fans on that decision but it cost us 3.5M per year - 5% of our gross turnover.

Now, 70% of turnover on wages from,say, 70M for easy math makes a 50M wage bill. 25 first team players gives an average of 2M per year, ~40K per week. Wow.

We are losing money so when a business is doing that, you either increase your revenue stream or cut your costs. This makes the sale of Arteta, Yakubu and Beckford look like good business - bring in some cash and cut the wage bill but even though I recall general approval from most fans, there was little credit given to the board for making such a bold decision. And what I think was a good business decision.

Hi Ian :)

Just a few points,

?accusations of having no desire to take the club forwards, selling our best assets, not thinking of the future et al?

That?s what we had in the end wasn?t it?

There were no massive rumblings because we knew we had to keep our main playmaker. That?s why we signed the deal.

The sales were good business, but you miss the main point. Why were we forced to make these sales?

Think about it Ian

I'm a little perplexed as to why Ian feels the Board deserve credit for 'such a bold decision' when both Moyes & Kenwright, & I think Elstone as well, have confirmed that the decision was Moyes' own, not the Board's.

#32 Dennis

Let's also add that Arteta was one of Kenwrights untouchables!

Dennis @32, good point, mate.

Kevin @33, again good point, mate.

Truth is we applied for and got planning permission to develope the Park End car park, sold the idea to Kitbag and Sudexo, and moved Dixie's statue, knocked a hole in the wall, and then the company that holds a charge over the Park End car park said, "Hang on a minute... At some point, we may need to sell this land, if you go bust." So they stopped us building on it!

Our bank got wind of this and decided, as they thought we owned it and had been led to believe it, demanded payment off the overdraft straight away. That's why the project was stopped.

That's why the club told us three different answers as to why it was stopped... and that's why Arteta was sold!

And the reducing of the wage bill, Vaughan, Yobo and how many other players? ? about ten I think ? were offloaded off the wage bill through sales and loans etc.

I have been told it was Ellstone that fucked up! But, since that project was started, our club has stopped buying players and released loads.

Think he will have ten million to spend in January? Dream on lads, it ain't happening.

Kenwright's recent interview, with Purslow, makes me want to throw up. At one point, he says, there is no sword hanging over our heads, Arteta went because the manager let him go. We are good with the bank?

Yet, in the Blue Union interview, he says "I won't sell Arteta, to the bank." He's quite forthright in this: "NO, I WON'T SELL HIM." The banks were trying to get him to sell him, or that is what he makes out.

The sword or the thought of the sword hanging over us came from him, at the meeting.

The man is a phoney, and my only criticism of the Blue Union is to not go for the throat on him... but hey, I can see what they have to deal with (The Liverpool Echo, they got that name right) and the media spin (at the moment becoming a land slide) that stops our fans' disapproval.

I'll fully support the Blue Union when they come up with solutions. That's not a down on them btw as I'm sure that they are a positive force. Kenwright out, board out, Moyes out is witless and gets the derision it deserves. We know the difference between EFC and Spurs but let's have what they could have done differently and what possibilities they have now to improve the situation.

Robert (27)

"Why do they need a clear mandate to speak on behalf of the fans?"

They need a clear mandate so they can be seen as representative of something more than a small group of disgruntled fans. A small group of whiners gets no respect. A bona fide group acting on behalf of a representative sample of the fan base is going to demand respect and attention. Presumably you actually hope for the BU to accomplish something... in which case, they will need both.

"They're a group of fans who aren't happy with the way the club is run. Can they not protest? They're speaking about themselves and their supporters. They're not portraying to speak for everyone."

Well, they are promoting actions that affect everyone so they'd better bloody well be inclusive. The issue here is to be more than a simple protest group, isn't it? The BU's own message is that they are seeking to work with the club to foster change. If they just wanted to protest then you are right ? they have every right to do so... that's their business. When what they are trying to do impacts every fan then everyone has a right to pass comment don't they?

"As for the comparison to Spurs, what's wrong with that?"

Apart from the fact that the commercial environment that Everton, as a club that isn't the biggest in its provincial city, finds itself in is massively different from a capital city club with considerably more affluent fanbase... Maybe a fairer comparison may have been to another provincial club that suffers the same comparitive lack of commercial opportunity by not being located in London?

"They weren't in a better financial position than us when Kenwright took over? But, because they are now, we can't highlight that?"

No, of course you cant... without accusations of Ross-like spin! It doesn't matter that they weren't performing any better than us in 1999 ? they clearly had the commercial potential to exploit when they needed to. We haven't got that potential.

I'll ask you the same question that went unanswered before: If the club had not decided to move to a new stadium, and we had put in 100 new executive boxes in Goodison at the start of the 2000s, do you think they would be filled regularly today?.

"KEIOC are part of the Blue Union, and have done proper studies and are working on the football quarter?"

No they haven't. KEIOC have been singularly unable to get anyone interested enough commercially in the Football Quarter to get a proper Feasibility Study done. Last I asked Colin Fitz about who they anticipate would actually visit the FQ, he had no answers.

When we look at the National Football Museum fiasco, we don't get a great warm feeling that there is much tourism revenue in such a project and in terms of financial backing the private sector seems to consider this scheme a similarly poor risk. IF the FQ is going to be the economic driver that supports Everton going forwards, then it'll be down to us, the fans, to raise funds to get those studies done. That way we can know whether to press on or put a sympathetic bullet through a lame dog and move on to new ideas.

"Give them and me a break, and do something yourself."

I'm doing it. I'm trying to get people like you to see the futility of your 'well at least someone is doing something' idiocy. It's not enough to say that and expect the pat on the back. Doesn't wash mate. If you are going to do something, then make damned sure what you are going to do will generate results... otherwise what use are you?

Steve Jones,

Your ignorance about KEIOC's research and dealings as regards Stadium redevelopment, and the football quarter concept appears to know no bounds. The same level of research saw them swamp the public inquiry with a far greater depth of material than anything offered by the mighty institutions stacked against them.

However, it is the club who should be funding all such studies.... after all, they said they had exhausted all such options before the KD ballot.... only to post last minute appraisal after the ballot papers had been issued, with most of the content of that already discredited. Where is your condemnation of this and all the other lies that supported KD?

I agree with most points on here. I applaud the Blue Union for their hard work and getting it recognised nationally, but also that we need ideas to move forward from just pointing out what the board is doing/has done wrong. Bill will just keep on charming the press with 'no better salesman' and 'boys pen' and pointing out how he would love to give Moyes millions. He keeps getting sympathy!

Also, £9m a year on Finch Farm? (Rob squires #3) I highly doubt that. Didn't Finch Farm cost £9 million to build, according to Wikipedia? That might explain it!

From what ive read, Finch Farm building contract was worth £9 million, Everton then had the finished article valued at £17 million, so sold it and leased it back for 50 years. I doubt that 50-year lease is worth £9 million a year back in rent. The company would show a profit in 2 years and still have another 48 years of £9 million pounds?? That would be deal of the century for them!

Ian Edwards #6 - You are being serious arent you??? It's just you seem to have dillusions of grandeur!

The worst manager in our history??? I take it you are 10 yrs of age?

Kevin @23, the offical accounting year end for Everton is 31 May. However, you dont need to publish accounts until 9 months after the year end so the (May) 2011 accounts will likely not be published until February 2012.

Think we'll have a little while to wait until the board is forced to release the 2011 figures.

Steve @36.... Oh dear! A small group of whiners get no respect?

Again, you slag off Evertonians for at least trying to find a way forward? One can only guess at your motives for doing this.

When what they are trying to do impacts every fan? A bit like that clueless board of ours, wouldn't you say, Steve.

If we had put in a 100 new boxes in Goodison in 2000, would we fill them today? We didn't though, did we, Steve? No, instead of doing that, we threw away the chance to compete with the likes of Spurs by fucking up the Kings Dock.

Yes, you're correct 1 it does sound like Ross-type spin.... hmm.

I think Tom Huges @ 37 answers the next aside from you, and shows up your lack of knowledge on the subject. "I'm trying to get people like you to see the futility of your idiocy"!!!!!!!

Well Well , the truth outs, we are all idiots, because we care ? more than you I might add.

We know what needs to be done, we all have our opinions on how we should get there, but are we all looking for the same solution ? to make Everton great again? I am... Not sure about you tho!

Ste, I could've got into a serious dissection of your post to me but...

A) I couldn't be arsed, same old same old...
B) I'm sick of trying to convince the likes of you about what's going on at the club.
C) You and the likes of you ARE what's wrong.
D) Slagging anyone off for trying to make things better...

DISGRACEFUL!

Oh and the cake thing: I don't know what that meant... maybe Kenwright wants to have his cake and eat it.......

Are you having some ....or better still pie! How about Humble??? Think you will like that.

Mike @ 1

Great piece Mike keep them coming

Tom,

I've read everything KEIOC have published about stadium development and it's time I'll never get back in my life, which is a shame. The Football Quarter, bottom line, has ZERO private finance interest... can't even get a backer for the full feasibility study. That tells you everything important about the project.

Still, if the BU as extension to KEIOC believe in it, and they seem to be the only ones... apart from the public sector who presumably see nothing to lose out of it whilst not being willing to invest themselves, then I'd say it's down to the BU to stump up and prove there is something viable there. I'm happy to help with the fund-raising to that end... if only to get conclusive proof that the FQ is a riduculous waste of time and effort so we can move on to more productive efforts.

The club have already arrived at that conclusion it seems... hence the focus on new ground and not rennovation. I happen to think that's the correct plan as I don't believe we can compete for all the revenue we need in Walton.... especially as LFC have realised that they are missing out on the corporates and are planning something spectacular as a stadium to try and attract it in. So, even IF we did pull off the FQ and IF we could generate revenue off the back of it to rennovate Goodison, to include the corporate facilities Spurs have over us, then we'd be doing it for the RS's benefit as their new shiny uber-stadium would attract the corporate spend!

You do have to be a special kind of stupid to want to go along the revitalise Goodsion route. The board do qualify as a special kind of stupid, but, perhaps there is the odd exception here and there.

Robert,

Where do you start against a post like that?

"Again, you slag off Evertonians for at least trying to find a way forward? One can only guess at your motives for doing this."

I'll slag off anyone for getting it wrong and doing things stupidly. I've slagged off the board for their stupidity and I'll slag off the BU for theirs. I make no distinction. It's Everton FC I love ? not the board or the BU... get that straight!

"We didn't though, did we, Steve? No, instead of doing that, we threw away the chance to compete with the likes of Spurs by fucking up the Kings Dock."

You sure KD would have let us compete with Spurs? I've heard that the terms of Greggs little reverse mortgage would've seen us paying off his little circle of financiers for years? I don't know enough about that deal either way but I think you are presuming a lot there pal.

You didn't answer the question either... 100 Exec boxes at Goodison today... do we fill them or not? If you are honest and think the answer is no then wasn't the decision to move to a new ground the right one.... even if incompetence screwed it up both times?.

"D) Slagging anyone off for trying to make things better..."

I'm happy when people try to make things better... right now, I don't see much of anything like that from the board or the BU. I see a board that has nothing on the scope whatsoever other than day-to-day survival measures and I see the biggest fans pressure group either unable or afraid to try and get the one thing it needs to demonstrate its power and credibility... a mandate from the fans. If you don't see that then it's you that needs to wake up lad.

Steve, I think you're wrong to dismiss redevelopment of Goodison Park as a viable way forward. However, as with a new stadium, it has to be the right development.

As you've touched upon above, KD may well have been the right deal if the finances were right. I'm sure they were right for Gregg, maybe not for the club ? certainly not right for Kenwright.

As for the DK fiasco, the least said the better ? or it would be were it not that I suspect the current Board are looking for DK Mk II & I have no confidence it will be any less of a disaster than last time.

Dennis,

Agree with everything you've written there. The last sentence is the real horror story distilled into 20 or more words.

I, obviously, don't think Goodison is a solution for anything other than prolonged stagnation, but, likewise I have no faith in anyone at the club, Elstone or the board, to deliver a workable stadium proposal.

The only way the purported 'interim board' would seem to be of value is if it were able to conjure up a plan for a new ground, with practical new revenue opportunity, and make the club genuinely more attractive for takeover. When that board breaks cover, I'll be delirious.

"I've read everything KEIOC have published about stadium development and it's time I'll never get back in my life, which is a shame."

There's reading, and then there is understanding. All KEIOC set out to achieve was to show that there were options..... This they did, clearly!

"The Football Quarter, bottom line, has ZERO private finance interest... can't even get a backer for the full feasibility study. That tells you everything important about the project."

I'm affraid that's incorrect... Feasibility studies have and are being carried out, and several interested parties have been engaged, and continue to do so, which has broadened the scope quite a bit since the initial ideas were posted. I understand that there is much more to come on this soon.

"The club have already arrived at that conclusion it seems... hence the focus on new ground and not renovation."

In my best John McEnroe accent: You cannot be serious...... Focus? What focus? What conclusion? At what point have the club demonstrated any ability to conclude ANYTHING as regards stadium development or relocation. The club still haven't produced a comprehensive study of all the potential redevelopment options. There only effort thus far was in response to my work, and even contained my copied drawings. (i.e. post-ballot).

If you still believe in the out-of-town retail-led development strategy, I suggest you read up on how and why DK died..... Out-of-town retail would need to be of the scale of several DKs to release anything like the cash required..... and that is never going to happen within 20 miles of Liverpool city-centre (and more).

The transport strategy was ridiculed by everyone right up to its final laughable revision.... and illustrated in one go why DK was a square peg in a round hole for EFC..... There may be alternatives in a more central location with far richer enabling-development scope, but unfortunately probably not in the current climate, and certainly not with the track record of this lot.

"I happen to think that's the correct plan as I don't believe we can compete for all the revenue we need in Walton."

Again.... what plan are you talking about? There is no plan A, nevermind B. Don't you remember this?

".... especially as LFC have realised that they are missing out on the corporates and are planning something spectacular as a stadium to try and attract it in. So, even IF we did pull off the FQ and IF we could generate revenue off the back of it to renovate Goodison, to include the corporate facilities Spurs have over us, then we'd be doing it for the RS's benefit as their new shiny uber-stadium would attract the corporate spend!"

This makes no sense to me.... Anfield can attract corporates but Walton can't? Are these areas really at opposite end of the desirability spectrum?

Any corporate facilities we create will benefit LFC.....? Do our current corporate facilities benefit LFC?

"You do have to be a special kind of stupid to want to go along the revitalise Goodsion route. The board do qualify as a special kind of stupid, but, perhaps there is the odd exception here and there."

The vast majority of clubs must be a special kind of stupid then since that is precisely what most have done. There are several good reasons to redevelop.... firstly it can be done in affordable chunks over a sustainable period... measuring demand and trends as we go.

It also has the advantage of being in a tried and tested location, with much preserved. It also offers the opportunity to build on the identity/heritage and history of Goodison Park.... as the world's first truly purpose-built football stadium. This and the fanbase are the clubs only true assets.

FACT is: EFC DO NOT necessarily need a whole new stadium right now. There are several ways to greatly increase the quality of the stadium that wont need wholesale change initially. This could address many of the defficiencies...... and should've been done years ago.

Practically ALL other clubs have done this, and if we had embarked on a programme of redevelopment when everyone else did (and no, not just the rich ones) then we would've had that corporate spend for years.

In the rest of your post you seem to basically agree that the club has been woeful in regard to progress. You just don't seem to like other people having said it before you.... That's the real shame!

Steven Jones

Just read your "special kind of stupid" remark.

You must have had a very poor upbringing with your lack of manners, humour and humility.

It's not the first time is it? You have real issues with those of contrary opinion, stamping your feet like a child. Grow up.

"Manners maketh the man."

Steve, you've got all the answers... or so you think.

Instead of getting blisters on your thumbs, why not put yourself forward as an adviser to the Blue Union because, according to you, they need guidance.

They will take on board any help they can, they don't portray to have all the answers, not like you.

We have to start somewhere, Blue Union or oblivion.

Think about it steve, why slag off a group of fans that are getting off there arses to at least expose the truth, and try and make things better?

If you don't agree with there methods, join them, direct them.....

Or can't you be arsed,

Keep some vaseline for the thumbs handy, and I'll keep protesting, thanks for your help.

Tom

"There's reading, and then there is understanding. All KEIOC set out to achieve was to show that there were options..... This they did, clearly!"

Hang on, you're either presenting realistic alternatives or not. Options can be good and bad, can't they? The Scotty Road loop site was an 'option' was it? The one that says the structural support for the full-scope stadium would have to span the roadway itself onto land off-site!? Pull the other one, Tom.

"I'm affraid that's incorrect... Feasibility studies have and are being carried out, and several interested parties have been engaged, and continue to do so, which has broadened the scope quite a bit since the initial ideas were posted. I understand that there is much more to come on this soon."

...and not one shred of news has been released about the commencement of a full Feasibility Study into the Football Quarter? A small piece of information with collossal ramifications for the immediate area? Not just one party undertaking studies though... we have gone from nothing in several years to multiple studies now? Wow, I can't wait for someone to break cover on this and tell us the good news!

"The club have already arrived at that conclusion it seems... hence the focus on new ground and not renovation."

"Focus? What focus? What conclusion? At what point have the club demonstrated any ability to conclude ANYTHING as regards stadium development or relocation."

Two attempts at ground moves, however woeful, and no effort undertaken on redevelopment. Anecdotally that would suggest a preferred option wouldnt it???.

"Again.... what plan are you talking about? There is no plan A, nevermind B. Don't you remember this?"

Correct option, concept, strategy, I shrink away from the word "vision" but you get the point?.

"Anfield can attract corporates but Walton can't? Are these areas really at opposite end of the desirability spectrum?"

A £400mn super-stadium as an attraction in itself is what they are betting on to attract the corporates into Anfield - didn't I say that very clearly?. I think they have it badly wrong, but, thats none of my concern.

"Any corporate facilities we create will benefit LFC.....? Do our current corporate facilities benefit LFC?"

I thought we'd already established LFC dont do corporates very well and Anfield is poorly equipped for the offering?. I'm saying that if the Football Quarter does turn out to buck the current trend on football-related tourism and make Walton a veritable Mecca for tourism and the place to be seen for affluent business people. Then we will be sat in sight of the new Uber-Anfield with our warmed-over Goodison Park watching the corporate spend go into the coffers of the biggest and best facilities. I'm trying to work out how you cant see this very obvious sequence of events?.

"The vast majority of clubs must be a special kind of stupid then since that is precisely what most have done."

In their individual circumstances, such a decision may make sense. Do I give a flying toss about them? I note recently that Fulham are going down that same route with Craven Cottage. Good for them, if they feel thats what they need to do. If Al-Fayed pulls out his money, it won't make a blind bit of difference whether they have 25k seats or the 30k that they'll upgrade to and they'll plummet out of the division like a falling rock; but, they've chosen the upgrade route, so good for them hey? Obviously has a huge amount of crossover to our situation.

"There are several good reasons to redevelop... be done in affordable chunks over a sustainable period... measuring demand and trends as we go."

Crap it just pushes the stadium build over a longer period of time and, in the real world, stalls after the first, cheapest, stand gets done. The build is small and piecemeal so we get to pay a premium on each stand as there is no volume to cash in on. This is moreso the case if we stop and consider our navels for a couple of seasons working out whether or not to go for the next stand or whether demand isn't quite there yet! How the fuck do you keep a contractor on board for that one?

"It also has the advantage of being in a tried and tested location, with much preserved. It also offers the opportunity to build on the identity/heritage and history of Goodison Park.... as the world's first truly purpose-built football stadium."

...but it's not going to be Goodison Park any more, is it? The identity will not be there as it is now ? the experience will be completely different. It's likely it wont even be called Goodison anymore. Apart from the walkups matchday routine, what is actually being preserved? Yes it's a tried and tested location... one that we know is a dead end commercially and will be, even if, by your aforementioned FQ miracle, the area becomes the new Albert Dock.

"EFC DO NOT necessarily need a whole new stadium right now."

No, they needed one 12 years ago! Now it's desperate as Colin F illustrated at the meeting. Spurs: 120 corporate boxes... Us: 9! We need a new stadium now and not in Walton.

"You just don't seem to like other people having said it before you.... That's the real shame!"

Not so, Tom. I'm well aware of others having said it before me. I'm just wound up they spent so much time achieving sweet stuff all when they say they saw the train wreck coming. That's the shame.

Trevor,

"You must have had a very poor upbringing with your lack of manners, humour and humility."

I'm talking about the people who're meant to be trying to save us from the idiots on the board being so hell bent on their own agendas that they'll condemn the club to generations of further stagnation... unless you believe in this Football Quarter crap. Do you want to know how much I care what you think about my manners and upbringing? You are right about the loss of sense of humour though. I don't find much funny on this site anymore.

I have some ideas:

1. Start advertising for volunteers, like carpenters and so on who love Everton and want to work for free to build more executive boxes.

2. Same thing could be done to increase the stadium by a few thousand extra seats.

3. Tap into Chang and get ideas from them to promote our club into Asia. Commercial deals in Asia is the way forward.

Blue Union could start organising free workers and start building plans for more executive boxes, and then deliver them to the board, at the same time releasing their ideas to the media and putting pressure on Kenwright to act on these ideas.