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?Your Blue Union has betrayed the Club?
, 7 January,
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In some impromptu mobile-phone video of Bill Kenwright arriving at Goodison Park for today's game, the Everton Chairman reacts to questions from fans saying, "Your Blue Union has betrayed the Club".
Quotes or other material sourced from School of Science 1878
Reader Comments (359)
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Martin Hughes
2 Posted 07/01/2012 at 16:43:37
2 Posted 07/01/2012 at 16:43:37
The guy is out of his depth; doesn't know what to say, do, or how to answer.
Jamie Carroll
3 Posted 07/01/2012 at 16:45:14
3 Posted 07/01/2012 at 16:45:14
He was rattled!
Robbie Muldoon
4 Posted 07/01/2012 at 16:41:01
4 Posted 07/01/2012 at 16:41:01
Fair play to those lads, they care about this club, Kenwright just cares about himself.
Rob Walden
5 Posted 07/01/2012 at 16:47:21
5 Posted 07/01/2012 at 16:47:21
So we need to be a forced seller in a market full of dubious buyers. If we can put enough pressure on BK, with a bit of luck he'll be forced to sell to someone like a Venky (who may be on the look out again if they sell Blackburn) ? is that what we want?
Please understand that if someone is forced to sell anything ? stocks, business, car, house you name it ? they will never get the best price, that's an undisputable fact. The last thing we need is BK feeling he's so fed up with all the crap that he'll sell to the next offer.
Please understand that if someone is forced to sell anything ? stocks, business, car, house you name it ? they will never get the best price, that's an undisputable fact. The last thing we need is BK feeling he's so fed up with all the crap that he'll sell to the next offer.
Steven Bennett
6 Posted 07/01/2012 at 16:57:26
6 Posted 07/01/2012 at 16:57:26
Well done, lads! Clean language, direct questions, gave him no room to label you yobs etc, needs more momentum though.
Mick Fleming
7 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:00:04
7 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:00:04
What a complete incompetent fool, god he makes my blood boil.
Betrayed the club indeed.
BK, look in the mirror and say that very sentence to yourself over and over, dickhead.
Betrayed the club indeed.
BK, look in the mirror and say that very sentence to yourself over and over, dickhead.
Nick Entwistle
8 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:10:14
8 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:10:14
Sound bites. Invented to appease the stupid.
Mark Riding
9 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:07:27
9 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:07:27
Sorry... but this is very odd behaviour by Bill. For an articulate man, he genuinely doesn't seem to know what to do or say...
Very odd indeed.
Very odd indeed.
Brian Waring
10 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:13:12
10 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:13:12
Tell you what... I was impressed with, how those lads kept their cool when BK came out with his shite.
Thomas Windsor
11 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:17:37
11 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:17:37
I didn't feel comfortable watching this but thankfully it was done without foul language; well done, lads.
James Hollister
12 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:10:05
12 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:10:05
The man just makes me feel sick every time I see him, let alone listen to him... he is beyond delusional.
Neil Pickering
13 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:13:52
13 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:13:52
What a cock our Chairman is, and what on earth was he doing with that stupid grin on his face standing there looking at his phone?
I agree with has been said earlier; we need to up the ante a bit now and do this fucker's head in that much he crumbles and takes his cronies with him.
So more protests please, and well done to those lads who behaved in a very dignified way.
I agree with has been said earlier; we need to up the ante a bit now and do this fucker's head in that much he crumbles and takes his cronies with him.
So more protests please, and well done to those lads who behaved in a very dignified way.
Thomas Williams
14 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:18:23
14 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:18:23
How much will it take before the clappers at the Villa game wake up?
The list of lies is beyond counting on fingers and fast running out of toes.
£18M in profit on player sales over 12 years for a club of our standing is a shocking indictment of BK's tenure, plus £60M in lossed assets and £20M+ increased debt and he has the audacity to say to other Evertonians "you have betrayed the club"!!
The list of lies is beyond counting on fingers and fast running out of toes.
£18M in profit on player sales over 12 years for a club of our standing is a shocking indictment of BK's tenure, plus £60M in lossed assets and £20M+ increased debt and he has the audacity to say to other Evertonians "you have betrayed the club"!!
James Morgan
15 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:22:41
15 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:22:41
Well in lads. Put pressure on without swearing or calling names, shows you in a better light, well done!
The guy is a joke and I for one can't wait to see the back of him. And how can he say the Blue Union is betraying the club??? The man has bare cheek! BU only want what's best for the club.
IBUWT
The guy is a joke and I for one can't wait to see the back of him. And how can he say the Blue Union is betraying the club??? The man has bare cheek! BU only want what's best for the club.
IBUWT
Jimmy Sørheim
16 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:18:14
16 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:18:14
I was surprised at his statement, very weak and poor, and he claims to be an Evertonian. What a clown!!!
This confirms what Colin Fitzpatrick said in his article, in that Bill Kenwright is just a puppy for Phil Green and is squeezing out every last drop of blood away from our club. He and Phil Green are taking money out of the club and they are also running it like a factory. Develop players then sell, sell, sell and bring in more and more money for the bastards in the board room.
I think Bill is crumbling under the pressure because there are plans for a new protest. The only thing the BU has destroyed is the illusion Bill has tried to get away with. Draining our club like he has will not be tolerated much longer.
Of course he will "claim" that the BU has scared away any investor, but that is a lie, it is the price of £150 million or more that keeps the investors away. My God, I don't think any investor would want to buy this club for half of the £150M that the owners want. They need to get real.
Also, the focus now has to shift onto the all the owners ? not just Bill; he is just an ambassador.
This confirms what Colin Fitzpatrick said in his article, in that Bill Kenwright is just a puppy for Phil Green and is squeezing out every last drop of blood away from our club. He and Phil Green are taking money out of the club and they are also running it like a factory. Develop players then sell, sell, sell and bring in more and more money for the bastards in the board room.
I think Bill is crumbling under the pressure because there are plans for a new protest. The only thing the BU has destroyed is the illusion Bill has tried to get away with. Draining our club like he has will not be tolerated much longer.
Of course he will "claim" that the BU has scared away any investor, but that is a lie, it is the price of £150 million or more that keeps the investors away. My God, I don't think any investor would want to buy this club for half of the £150M that the owners want. They need to get real.
Also, the focus now has to shift onto the all the owners ? not just Bill; he is just an ambassador.
Andy Callan
17 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:34:09
17 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:34:09
Clichés lads - did you really expect him to answer in that type of scenario....
We're beginning to sound like that shower of shite from across the park for fuck's sake.....
We're beginning to sound like that shower of shite from across the park for fuck's sake.....
Brian Waring
18 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:36:35
18 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:36:35
Andy, maybe he should have just said fuck all, instead of coming out with that shite.
Stephen Leary
19 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:34:32
19 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:34:32
No doubt about it the man's a wanker... sorry for the language but how dare he say he's the biggest Evertonian, the man isn't a bigger Evertonian than me or anyone on this site or anyone that loves Everton!
It's our club, the man needs to go and fast. Genuine questions asked and he just stands there like a total mug. Kenwright Out!!
It's our club, the man needs to go and fast. Genuine questions asked and he just stands there like a total mug. Kenwright Out!!
Neil Pickering
20 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:30:05
20 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:30:05
What an idiot our Chairman is, what on earth was he doing trying to look like he is on his phone when they are saying stuff to him?
Time to up the ante now I think and make these protests louder and more frequent. Hopefully then this joker will have no option but to get out, and take cronies with him.
Well done to those lads as well for getting their points across eloquently and making Bbill look like a div, although I admit that ain't very hard!
Time to up the ante now I think and make these protests louder and more frequent. Hopefully then this joker will have no option but to get out, and take cronies with him.
Well done to those lads as well for getting their points across eloquently and making Bbill look like a div, although I admit that ain't very hard!
Andrew Mackenzie
21 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:35:51
21 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:35:51
Mark - seriously, 'articulate'? Year after year this fool has come out with the same empty soundbites. The only difference now is the number of people seeing them and him for what they are, worthless.
He deliberately hung around that car winding those lads up. He's a showman, one spet removed from a con artist, the sad thing is 'we', the supporters are the ones who've been had.
Shame on Bill Kenwright. Onwards and upwards the Blue Union and all others who want positive change for the good of the club.
He deliberately hung around that car winding those lads up. He's a showman, one spet removed from a con artist, the sad thing is 'we', the supporters are the ones who've been had.
Shame on Bill Kenwright. Onwards and upwards the Blue Union and all others who want positive change for the good of the club.
Ian Bennett
22 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:44:07
22 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:44:07
When the gate drops to 25,000, who will he blame then?
Paul Ferry
23 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:38:35
23 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:38:35
Breathtaking arrogance and lack of any sense of the real impact he makes on the club and us. One day, when at long last his handling of the finances over the last decade or so is revealed in clear blue, we will know who has betrayed the club he claims to love, but we know that already.
The man is a gobshite luvvie on the make who takes takes and takes from Everton. Proof of the pudding: 150 million asking price, allegedly when he's put fuck all in to help the cause. A criminal clown whose credibility shoots down and quaffing arrogance/stupidity/deception shoots up in equal measure with each passing year.
The man is a gobshite luvvie on the make who takes takes and takes from Everton. Proof of the pudding: 150 million asking price, allegedly when he's put fuck all in to help the cause. A criminal clown whose credibility shoots down and quaffing arrogance/stupidity/deception shoots up in equal measure with each passing year.
Michael Brooks
24 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:42:46
24 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:42:46
Kenwright! Never fails to amaze me!
Dave Richman
25 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:41:57
25 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:41:57
Andy..... You accuse them of cliches, and then come out with Cliche No 1 of the Moyes/ Kenwright defenders!
Paul Ferry
26 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:50:12
26 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:50:12
Completely Agree Dave. The same old from Andy and Co means that nothing ever gets done. Let's not complain, hey Andy, but it never gets you anywhere, does it?
Guess what, I'd quite like to have £35 million to spend on a player, albeit one that is not worth one-fifth of that. I hate the sound like the shite crap. if ever there was perfect propaganda for gobshite Kenwright then this is it. Nice one, Andy.
Guess what, I'd quite like to have £35 million to spend on a player, albeit one that is not worth one-fifth of that. I hate the sound like the shite crap. if ever there was perfect propaganda for gobshite Kenwright then this is it. Nice one, Andy.
Tim Kells
27 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:51:34
27 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:51:34
Well done to these lads. Shame there wasn't more with them to really put the pressure on. Hopefully the message is starting to get through to BK.
Mark Riding
28 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:48:39
28 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:48:39
Andrew, I use the word 'articulate' as I usually find that when he talks about Everton, he goes into the 'Boys Pen' stuff and he talks with a passion (deluded, maybe, but a passion).
In an empty car park, why get your driver to park right next to the BU lads and not expect them to say anything?
In an empty car park, why get your driver to park right next to the BU lads and not expect them to say anything?
Marc Williams
29 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:35:45
29 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:35:45
WOW .... First beating the mighty Tamworth & now this sado-masochistic softcore porn footage of gorgeous Bill, being all masterful to those awful Blue Unionists...
Something tells me that Toffeeweb's very own attention seeking loner, 'The Freshfield lunatic fringe', will have a boner 24/7, after that level of stimulation.
Something tells me that Toffeeweb's very own attention seeking loner, 'The Freshfield lunatic fringe', will have a boner 24/7, after that level of stimulation.
Richard Dodd
30 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:51:30
30 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:51:30
If today's performance on the field was a poor one, Blue Bill's re-action to some very polite questioners was several leagues poorer. In that situation, he should have kept his trap shut and settled for a smile and a wave.... Who in hell is advising him now Rossy's gone? And I thought he was rubbish.......!
I suggest he turns to his old pal, Doug Ellis, who had to put up with intense criticism throughout his lengthy tenure but never once lost his dignity.
I suggest he turns to his old pal, Doug Ellis, who had to put up with intense criticism throughout his lengthy tenure but never once lost his dignity.
Mark Riding
31 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:00:34
31 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:00:34
Which of Bills companies pays for his Mercedes and the driver by the way ??
Operating costs me thinks !
Operating costs me thinks !
Eddie McBride
32 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:56:43
32 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:56:43
Very well done, lads, keep the pressure on. He is definitely cracking... just remember ? don't give him any of your money or the opportunity to get positive publicity out of you.
ps: Anyone shown this too the Oldham Echo???
ps: Anyone shown this too the Oldham Echo???
Phil Rodgers
33 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:33:32
33 Posted 07/01/2012 at 17:33:32
All fair questions. No answer. We are doomed under this man.
Ged Simpson
34 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:09:42
34 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:09:42
Mark - his theatre company just made £2m which will give him a Merc. As for what this clip shows us ? Fuck all. I do think he has lost the way and is out of his depth but don't base it on a few secs of video like this. And the great achievement of not swearing? How fucking brilliant!
Anthony Fox
35 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:14:18
35 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:14:18
Sad!!
Gavin Ramejkis
36 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:17:47
36 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:17:47
Ged, walk past the car park every home game (or when he can be arsed to turn up sometimes with his token human shield mother in tow) and you'll see that Merc and others there, they've been the same for the season and are more than likely lease vehicles against the club.
I was in town many years ago when Unsworth was still with us and he parked next to me in a multi storey one evening in a top of the range Merc, shortly after he was playing elsewhere and seen on TV driving a Mondeo, likely the Merc was a club loaner/lease vehicle. Other players had flash motors; Biffa used to love Lambo's but wasn't driving the one he had after he left us.
I was in town many years ago when Unsworth was still with us and he parked next to me in a multi storey one evening in a top of the range Merc, shortly after he was playing elsewhere and seen on TV driving a Mondeo, likely the Merc was a club loaner/lease vehicle. Other players had flash motors; Biffa used to love Lambo's but wasn't driving the one he had after he left us.
Ted Smeethes
37 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:16:39
37 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:16:39
I feel sorry for Kenwright, he clearly had every intention of being a good chairmen and doing the 'right' thing but it's all gone belly up and now he's stuck and so out of his depth.
Colin Potter
38 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:11:31
38 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:11:31
Whats needed is constant pressure on the crap bastard at EVERY home game
Henry Jones
39 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:23:26
39 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:23:26
Well don and keep up the clean language when speaking to Bill. We don't want him to use that against us.
Gavin Ramejkis
40 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:26:25
40 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:26:25
There needs to be stuff inside the ground but the stewards are sintructed to remove any banners as soon as they appear, wonder how they would manage with them appearing all over the ground?
Mark Kearns
41 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:26:40
41 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:26:40
Can anyone make out what he is saying before the "betrayal" quote. Something about "all my life"
The Dave Hickson comment got him going - he seemed happy to ignore what else they were saying to him.
The Dave Hickson comment got him going - he seemed happy to ignore what else they were saying to him.
Mark Riding
42 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:23:49
42 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:23:49
Thanks Gavin, that is my point. They will all be leased and paid for by the club. Fine. But when your skint, you cut your cloth accordingly.
The company I work for always plan for adversity, especially after Xmas. They ask staff to take a few days off unpaid etc to take the edge off pay-roll.
Football is a big business... please run our club like one and stop taking the piss out of us all.
The company I work for always plan for adversity, especially after Xmas. They ask staff to take a few days off unpaid etc to take the edge off pay-roll.
Football is a big business... please run our club like one and stop taking the piss out of us all.
Lee Gray
43 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:28:43
43 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:28:43
Well done, conducted yourselves with true dignity... the man is a fool.
And you know what they say... "A fool and his money"!
And you know what they say... "A fool and his money"!
Eugene Ruane
44 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:18:08
44 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:18:08
Ged Simpson - when dealing with a 100% fucking twat, I think you'll find not swearing IS a great achievement.
Richard Dodd
46 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:25:49
46 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:25:49
Whilst I am critical of Bill`s ill-judged re-action to his match-day critics, comments about his `posh` car are equally pathetic.
As a leading theatrical impressario, he would hardly be driving a clapped out Mondeo and both he and Robert Elstone are on record with statements that he `takes neither salary nor benefits in kind from EFC`.
I believe his critics would do far better to focus on more salient matters than his current mode of transport.
As a leading theatrical impressario, he would hardly be driving a clapped out Mondeo and both he and Robert Elstone are on record with statements that he `takes neither salary nor benefits in kind from EFC`.
I believe his critics would do far better to focus on more salient matters than his current mode of transport.
Mark Riding
54 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:59:49
54 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:59:49
#34 Ged.. His company made £2m last year... read that again.. £2m.. thats what the brilliant 'theatre impressario' made.
Maybe if he didnt spunk his dosh on Mercs and fucking drivers he have done a bit better.
#Richard, I dont think he will see a driver and car as a 'benefit' I think he will see it as a right !
Maybe if he didnt spunk his dosh on Mercs and fucking drivers he have done a bit better.
#Richard, I dont think he will see a driver and car as a 'benefit' I think he will see it as a right !
Carl Peters
59 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:08:10
59 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:08:10
It's easy to get him out ? just stay away... although the latter part may not be to a true blue but the only way is to hit him were hurts, the pockets. He's been fucking us over for years.
Ste Traverse
65 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:17:04
65 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:17:04
This bloke is delusional and has totally lost the plot. I just can't believe this video.
Those lads asked the questions that need answering in a dignified manner and get that reply.
So he dismisses all his mistakes,errors and disgusting lies which have been very damaging to our club over the last 12 years and claims it's the BU who have betrayed the club? Unbelieveable.
I think it's fair to say now he's no intention of letting go anytime soon and would much rather drag us under with him.
The man is insane. A fantasist of the highest order.
Those lads asked the questions that need answering in a dignified manner and get that reply.
So he dismisses all his mistakes,errors and disgusting lies which have been very damaging to our club over the last 12 years and claims it's the BU who have betrayed the club? Unbelieveable.
I think it's fair to say now he's no intention of letting go anytime soon and would much rather drag us under with him.
The man is insane. A fantasist of the highest order.
Shaun Kinnair
68 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:18:09
68 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:18:09
We need to protest more, for change to happen... at the moment we as supporters are not doing enough!! BK feels comfortable as the boss while this continues... what needs to happen guys??? Do we have to get relegated before we start doing something!!!
Chris Matheson
70 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:19:26
70 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:19:26
Meanwhile, back at the main discussion .....
Kenwright said "You have betrayed this club."
What he actually meant was, "You have betrayed me". It was his ego speaking. For Kenwright, 'the club' and himslef are interchangeable, such is his ego. Therein lies part of the problem.
Incidentally, I know we know all about the supposed bid from the bloke in the bedsit. But has anyone heard the rumour about a bloke in London who doesn'y want to put any money into the club, but is trying to get his Spurs supporting mates to bank-roll his bid to buy Everton?
If it comes off he could make a killing.
Kenwright said "You have betrayed this club."
What he actually meant was, "You have betrayed me". It was his ego speaking. For Kenwright, 'the club' and himslef are interchangeable, such is his ego. Therein lies part of the problem.
Incidentally, I know we know all about the supposed bid from the bloke in the bedsit. But has anyone heard the rumour about a bloke in London who doesn'y want to put any money into the club, but is trying to get his Spurs supporting mates to bank-roll his bid to buy Everton?
If it comes off he could make a killing.
Steven Kendrew
72 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:33:14
72 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:33:14
Doddy #44 is quite right. This discussion is a side show and I've just wasted five minutes reading it and writing this.
Fair play to the BU putting pressure on for answers in a fairly civil manner (unlike the Blackburn idiots) but you lot need to focus on bigger debate than the car that the Chairman of a decent size London theatre company and EPL football club uses.
Also, did BK look like he may have had a few ales (or champagnes) on the way in or is it just me.
Fair play to the BU putting pressure on for answers in a fairly civil manner (unlike the Blackburn idiots) but you lot need to focus on bigger debate than the car that the Chairman of a decent size London theatre company and EPL football club uses.
Also, did BK look like he may have had a few ales (or champagnes) on the way in or is it just me.
Mark Riding
73 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:39:50
73 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:39:50
Steven Kendrew.. His theatre company made £2m.. his EPL club lost £5m (at least ) Mercs and drivers all round then...
And you wonder why Everton are skint.. thats my point...
And you wonder why Everton are skint.. thats my point...
Richard Dodd
74 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:21:54
74 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:21:54
Mark #52.Regardless of whether Bill`s transport is a right or a benefit,the statements attributed to him and his CEO attested that the Chairman took NOTHING out of the Club-have you any evidence those statements are untrue?
Editor: Any chance you could clean up this thread,please? I have been suspended for less and never used a foul word!
Editor: Any chance you could clean up this thread,please? I have been suspended for less and never used a foul word!
Paul Ferry
76 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:45:31
76 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:45:31
Richard Dodd - do you have any evidence that the statements are in fact true?
Mike Manchester
77 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:12:12
77 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:12:12
Just thinking........... If i owned Everton, and i was a millionaire, What pecentage of my personal wealth would i invest in the club?
Would i risk ALL my money on Everton?
What if the club was in real need of further investment, more than my own fortunes could bankroll?
I would search for investors with honest intentions and a fortune larger than my own, no matter how long it took, even if it risked the team losing its place in the Premier League.
THIS CLUB IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT LEAGUE WE'RE IN.
But one surefire way to kill this club is for me to sellout at a reduced price to an unscrupulous buyer with no real interest in the club because of a small band of misled, cynical "Ultras"
And if i were barracked by a few of these "Ultras" ?
I would probably react like that.
Would i risk ALL my money on Everton?
What if the club was in real need of further investment, more than my own fortunes could bankroll?
I would search for investors with honest intentions and a fortune larger than my own, no matter how long it took, even if it risked the team losing its place in the Premier League.
THIS CLUB IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT LEAGUE WE'RE IN.
But one surefire way to kill this club is for me to sellout at a reduced price to an unscrupulous buyer with no real interest in the club because of a small band of misled, cynical "Ultras"
And if i were barracked by a few of these "Ultras" ?
I would probably react like that.
Kevin Hudson
79 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:50:41
79 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:50:41
8 scallies harangue the Chairman & film it.
Classy.
(But such a shame that 30 000 more aren't doing it inside the ground).
Classy.
(But such a shame that 30 000 more aren't doing it inside the ground).
Simon Atkins
82 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:40:08
82 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:40:08
Very weird behaviour by BK that, even by his own very low standards.
Anybody get the feeling BK had had a liquid lunch? Didn't appear particularly coherent did he?
Anybody get the feeling BK had had a liquid lunch? Didn't appear particularly coherent did he?
Paul Ferry
83 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:45:31
83 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:45:31
Richard Dodd - do you have any evidence that the statements are in fact true?
Gavin Ramejkis
84 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:55:16
84 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:55:16
Mark I worked for a company many years ago that switched their directors and senior managers from S Class to E Class mercs and saved a pot of cash, their high mileage guys were put in dual fuel motors.
Doddy, just because Billy Bullshitter or Elstone says something I'd take it with a pinch of salt, they have years of seeing their collective arses when they've been shown as liars.
Kevin the attendance today was approximately 27,000 from reports, 4-5,000 of which where from Tamworth. I'd say right there and the average of 3000 or so absentees per home game Everton have seen this season includes a portion of fans complaining and voting with their feet. This season has already seen record lows, those figures won't get any better any time soon and depending on what happens in January in terms of reinforcements and poorer performances such as those on Wednesday and today will see them drop further.
Doddy, just because Billy Bullshitter or Elstone says something I'd take it with a pinch of salt, they have years of seeing their collective arses when they've been shown as liars.
Kevin the attendance today was approximately 27,000 from reports, 4-5,000 of which where from Tamworth. I'd say right there and the average of 3000 or so absentees per home game Everton have seen this season includes a portion of fans complaining and voting with their feet. This season has already seen record lows, those figures won't get any better any time soon and depending on what happens in January in terms of reinforcements and poorer performances such as those on Wednesday and today will see them drop further.
Richard Dodd
86 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:58:57
86 Posted 07/01/2012 at 19:58:57
Personally, it bothers me not at all whether the Chairman takes anything out of the club. Most company chairmen recieve a stipend and this is detailed in the accounts.
Neither is it for me or any supporter to `prove` any statement made by any officer of the club is true ? we should all expect this to be the case.
However, if people are intent on alleging dishonesty/fraud they surely must have some evidence for doing so and bring it to the attention of the relevant authorities.
Neither is it for me or any supporter to `prove` any statement made by any officer of the club is true ? we should all expect this to be the case.
However, if people are intent on alleging dishonesty/fraud they surely must have some evidence for doing so and bring it to the attention of the relevant authorities.
Mark Riding
88 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:08:04
88 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:08:04
Gavin, thank god someone is actually getting what I am trying to say here.. Its not about Bill driving a 'banger'.. its the bigger, business, picture..and if the attitude towards something so 'trivial' as the mode of transport isnt considered important, then what else isnt important ?
We are skint.. Operating costs are out of control.
We are skint.. Operating costs are out of control.
Paul Ferry
89 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:13:44
89 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:13:44
Neither is it for me or any supporter to `prove`any statement made by any officer of the club is true
If this is the case Doddy, then why did you ask Mark to do so? Be consistent, at least.
If this is the case Doddy, then why did you ask Mark to do so? Be consistent, at least.
John Keating
90 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:05:52
90 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:05:52
Kevin 8 supporters harangue the Chairman and film it.
I saw 11 scallies embarrass my football club against Bolton
I also saw 11 scallies embarrass my football club today
Now thats really fucking classy !!
Now you tell me who really deserves the Blue and White ??
8 concerned supporters or a bunch of useless shite players who play like they don't give a flying fuck.
I saw 11 scallies embarrass my football club against Bolton
I also saw 11 scallies embarrass my football club today
Now thats really fucking classy !!
Now you tell me who really deserves the Blue and White ??
8 concerned supporters or a bunch of useless shite players who play like they don't give a flying fuck.
Billy Bradshaw
91 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:04:47
91 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:04:47
Kevin, what makes you think these lads are scallies?? Unless people like you realise the bullshite that this man is spouting and we get shut, we may actually buy a player (2½ years and counting) and see some improvment on the pitch.
Richard Dodd
92 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:16:03
92 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:16:03
Sorry, I always thought it was for the prosecution to prove the charge not the other way round. Too much Morse, perhaps?
Roberto Birquet
93 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:05:45
93 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:05:45
Mick F, 7
What a complete incompetent fool, god he makes my blood boil. Betrayed the club indeed.
-----------------------
They did betray the Club. By showing that we were a forced seller, any sales would be cheaper. Buyers know we have to sell. We got £16m for four players (Vaughan, Yak, Beckford, Arteta), and a loan fee for Yobo to help cover our own borrowed players.
Could we have got more? We'll never know. But the summer leaking of the BlueUnion/Bill meeting definitely had a negative impact.
Debt: There has been a lot of dodgy reporting of our debt, but it the Club accounts are available online. They were a snapshot of our position. It showed net debt of £45million, and £25million due for payment over next two years (ie by end May 2013).
So, it seems obvious to me that the £16million is going to the crediors, and we will have to request new terms for the other £9m (the repayble is £9m overdraft, £16million other creditors).
A damned good question is not so much where is the Arteta money, but: why was such widespread reporting that that money - or most of it - would be available for squad acquisitions?
Also, we have no idea what the Club is looking at as a fee. But whatever it is will have to be: the debt will have to be included in the fee. Then we have to attract a buyer to a club that just cannot make much money, and won't so long as we are at Goodison. Ever dare I say it? And I have before, Anfield would bring in more money.
This management cannot get us out of Goodison. It's gonna be expensive for whoever comes in: They will have about £30million remaining, a low revenue club, in a less than wealthy area that is suffering recession, and a new ground to build.
That's not gonna be easy to sell.
What a complete incompetent fool, god he makes my blood boil. Betrayed the club indeed.
-----------------------
They did betray the Club. By showing that we were a forced seller, any sales would be cheaper. Buyers know we have to sell. We got £16m for four players (Vaughan, Yak, Beckford, Arteta), and a loan fee for Yobo to help cover our own borrowed players.
Could we have got more? We'll never know. But the summer leaking of the BlueUnion/Bill meeting definitely had a negative impact.
Debt: There has been a lot of dodgy reporting of our debt, but it the Club accounts are available online. They were a snapshot of our position. It showed net debt of £45million, and £25million due for payment over next two years (ie by end May 2013).
So, it seems obvious to me that the £16million is going to the crediors, and we will have to request new terms for the other £9m (the repayble is £9m overdraft, £16million other creditors).
A damned good question is not so much where is the Arteta money, but: why was such widespread reporting that that money - or most of it - would be available for squad acquisitions?
Also, we have no idea what the Club is looking at as a fee. But whatever it is will have to be: the debt will have to be included in the fee. Then we have to attract a buyer to a club that just cannot make much money, and won't so long as we are at Goodison. Ever dare I say it? And I have before, Anfield would bring in more money.
This management cannot get us out of Goodison. It's gonna be expensive for whoever comes in: They will have about £30million remaining, a low revenue club, in a less than wealthy area that is suffering recession, and a new ground to build.
That's not gonna be easy to sell.
Dean Adams
94 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:15:20
94 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:15:20
Mark,
If the press saw Bill roll up in a banger, what do you think they would say?
For me, the bigger problem is the wages. How can Moyes earn what he is paid? We do not have one player in the club who is worth £10k a week never mind the actual salaries. This is what is killing us. I dare say that several other clubs will catch up with us soon and it really shows that the EPL is not a good place for any business, except the business of being an overpaid player.
If the press saw Bill roll up in a banger, what do you think they would say?
For me, the bigger problem is the wages. How can Moyes earn what he is paid? We do not have one player in the club who is worth £10k a week never mind the actual salaries. This is what is killing us. I dare say that several other clubs will catch up with us soon and it really shows that the EPL is not a good place for any business, except the business of being an overpaid player.
Kevin Hudson
95 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:13:53
95 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:13:53
Gavin,
I'd prefer to see a full-house vociferously getting behind the team (and admittedly, getting on their backs at times,) but also voting with their voices every time Kenwright's untrustworthy face pops up on the jumbotron.
I'd prefer to see a full-house vociferously getting behind the team (and admittedly, getting on their backs at times,) but also voting with their voices every time Kenwright's untrustworthy face pops up on the jumbotron.
Gavin Ramejkis
97 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:12:33
97 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:12:33
Doddy bit of a u-turn there. I'd suggest dropping it if it truly doesn't bother you. As a company director I've no problem of claiming reasonable expenses and tax advantages. The thing that truly grinds my gears is the bluff nonsense that eminates from BB and his soundbites such as biggest blue and doesn't take a penny etc, etc, yawn yawn. I've no problem if he admitted taking expenses as its a nonsense for him not to but to deny it with his usual bluff is an insult to people's intelligence, even more so when he's been proven to be a serial liar.
I don't think BB is bright enough to be skimming from the club but he is daft enough and so far out of his depth that he has invited undesirables inside the club who could well be profiteering from the situation. The club was bought for a known price, the publicly filed accounts show the current debt and its possible to forecast the debt over the next few years, the only price which has come into the public domain via Keith Harris who BB has claimed is employed to find a buyer is in the realms of fantasy, someone at the club is looking to make an absolute killing, trouble is the killing is more likely to happen to the club when it can no longer service it's debts.
I don't think BB is bright enough to be skimming from the club but he is daft enough and so far out of his depth that he has invited undesirables inside the club who could well be profiteering from the situation. The club was bought for a known price, the publicly filed accounts show the current debt and its possible to forecast the debt over the next few years, the only price which has come into the public domain via Keith Harris who BB has claimed is employed to find a buyer is in the realms of fantasy, someone at the club is looking to make an absolute killing, trouble is the killing is more likely to happen to the club when it can no longer service it's debts.
Mark Riding
98 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:22:22
98 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:22:22
Dean, I do see your point about rolling up in a banger..
What about rolling up in a chauffer driven spanking Merc and parking it in front of the BU flag ?
Like I said earlier, thats strange Dean.. surely whatever side of the fence your on ?
What about rolling up in a chauffer driven spanking Merc and parking it in front of the BU flag ?
Like I said earlier, thats strange Dean.. surely whatever side of the fence your on ?
Bobby Mallon
99 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:21:43
99 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:21:43
Andy Callan, if we had acted like the shower over the park then the club would have been sold by now. We need more marches, more "Kenwright Out!" shouts at games, and let's get rid of the fucking wanker asap.
Dean Adams
101 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:25:41
101 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:25:41
Mark Riding 92
Agree to that. He is of course in the theatre business and does enjoy a show.
Shame he cant give us one where it really matters, on the pitch, in the league, against the top 4/5,
Agree to that. He is of course in the theatre business and does enjoy a show.
Shame he cant give us one where it really matters, on the pitch, in the league, against the top 4/5,
Mark Riding
102 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:30:09
102 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:30:09
Bill is an actor, by trade.. surely he could have put on a better show in front of a 'few scallies' ?
Dean, we have unfortunately sold our main acts.. the question is, will people still show up to watch the stand in supporting actors ?
Dean, we have unfortunately sold our main acts.. the question is, will people still show up to watch the stand in supporting actors ?
Kevin Hudson
104 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:31:18
104 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:31:18
John Keating / Billy Bradshaw,
I'm all in favour of getting on the players cases, as performance dictates.
I also think there needs to be a Kenwright protest en masse - inside the ground, rather than ambushing him in a car park with a BlackBerry.
I'm all in favour of getting on the players cases, as performance dictates.
I also think there needs to be a Kenwright protest en masse - inside the ground, rather than ambushing him in a car park with a BlackBerry.
Noel Lynam
106 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:35:16
106 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:35:16
I can't believe it took 67 posts for someone to point out how tipsy Kenwright looks in that clip.
Mark Riding
107 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:42:44
107 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:42:44
Ricardo, read John Keatings comment about the game today on that thread.. it sums it up.
Dont ask me why, but I can feel a change coming. Its not all about the results, its the attitude, the performance, and I know I will get stick now.. the formation.
Its becoming apparant that we have sold / released too much quality now, and to have to do it again in the summer would kill the club.
Dont ask me why, but I can feel a change coming. Its not all about the results, its the attitude, the performance, and I know I will get stick now.. the formation.
Its becoming apparant that we have sold / released too much quality now, and to have to do it again in the summer would kill the club.
Gavin Ramejkis
108 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:44:48
108 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:44:48
As much as I dislike him passionately he clearly wasn't driving so if he had a drink or ten so what, it's not like he's actually selling the club 24/7.
Jimmy Sørheim
110 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:25:32
110 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:25:32
Nicely put Gavin!
How long can we afford to stand by and wait for "the buyer" and not be in Kenwrights face?
He needs to be reminded that there are fans who follow the way the club is run and who will show the media the real truth of the state of Everton FC.
How long can we afford to stand by and wait for "the buyer" and not be in Kenwrights face?
He needs to be reminded that there are fans who follow the way the club is run and who will show the media the real truth of the state of Everton FC.
Eugene Ruane
111 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:48:54
111 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:48:54
Noel (101) - Maybe he'd just come out of 'that' house in Goodison Rd - the one Howie slips into before games.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
114 Posted 07/01/2012 at 21:03:18
Editorial Team
114 Posted 07/01/2012 at 21:03:18
Okay, silly boys... I'm putting a temporary hold on posting here while I clean up this thread by deleteing a bunch of this shite that's been posted...
BEHAVE!!!!
Ricardo Gimpardsle ? As you're the one who kicked off the crap that was posted on this thread, Red Card... and ALL your posts today have been removed.
BEHAVE!!!!
Ricardo Gimpardsle ? As you're the one who kicked off the crap that was posted on this thread, Red Card... and ALL your posts today have been removed.
Eddie McBride
115 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:38:38
115 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:38:38
Kevin, do really think that filling Goodison Park and shouting "Kenwright out is going too make any difference to this complete ego-maniac?" All he will do is firstly count the money and secondly call a press conference to tell everybody how badly treated he is after all he has done for the club.
I can see them all queuing up on Sky Sports to tell us how ungrateful we are, and how great him and Moyes are. I would try not going to the game ? that way, some so-called journalist somewhere has got to notice all is not hunky dorey in Blue Bill's utopia.
I can see them all queuing up on Sky Sports to tell us how ungrateful we are, and how great him and Moyes are. I would try not going to the game ? that way, some so-called journalist somewhere has got to notice all is not hunky dorey in Blue Bill's utopia.
Paul Ferry
117 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:13:44
117 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:13:44
Neither is it for me or any supporter to `prove`any statement made by any officer of the club is true
If this is the case Doddy, then why did you ask Mark to do so? Be consistent, at least.
If this is the case Doddy, then why did you ask Mark to do so? Be consistent, at least.
Mick Fleming
118 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:47:02
118 Posted 07/01/2012 at 20:47:02
Roberto,
Hang on... are you suggesting that ? by exposing the gross mismanagement and incompetence of our custodians ? the BU have directly created the problems you highlighted? [Pause.]
The reason I wrote 'pause' is because I have spent the last 5 minutes laughing my head off. That's the biggest load of shite I have ever read.
Stop the protest marches and stop posting comments or we will damage the reputation of our squeaky clean and well run club. Best not show any matches on TV or potential investors may be put off, who will give us top dollar for our players when they see how shite they really are.
Damn, BK would have got away with it, if it wasn't for that pesky Blue Union eh!
Hang on... are you suggesting that ? by exposing the gross mismanagement and incompetence of our custodians ? the BU have directly created the problems you highlighted? [Pause.]
The reason I wrote 'pause' is because I have spent the last 5 minutes laughing my head off. That's the biggest load of shite I have ever read.
Stop the protest marches and stop posting comments or we will damage the reputation of our squeaky clean and well run club. Best not show any matches on TV or potential investors may be put off, who will give us top dollar for our players when they see how shite they really are.
Damn, BK would have got away with it, if it wasn't for that pesky Blue Union eh!
Ian Edwards
119 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:13:08
119 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:13:08
I thought the fans didnt come across very well. There are ways of behaving and they were rude and discourteous.Also, they never raised the one thing they should have done. Why hasnt Moyes been sacked.
Paul Ferry
120 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:18:34
120 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:18:34
Disagree Ian. I felt, given what we have been dragged through, that they were rather on the mellow side, asking reasonable questions that made Billy Bullshit uncomfortable. They were not rude at all, unless you think that wishing him to go is discourteous. If the Echo was doing its job properly these questions should have been asked by now in the full glare of publicity. But it is not and we ought to give these lads a pat on the back. The rudeness and discourtesy came from Kenshite alone. I, for one, was cheered to hear them singing go, If only it was 10000 blue voices inside the Old Lady.
Ian Edwards
121 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:27:16
121 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:27:16
Paul
Shouting through railings isnt the conduct of well brought up gentleman.
All the Kenwright abuse is disguising the real problems at the club. The negative tactics, poor team selections, formations and substitutions of a shockingly inept Manager.
Shouting through railings isnt the conduct of well brought up gentleman.
All the Kenwright abuse is disguising the real problems at the club. The negative tactics, poor team selections, formations and substitutions of a shockingly inept Manager.
Danny Broderick
122 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:26:10
122 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:26:10
How else could these lads address the board? It's not like they could do it in an AGM,is it?
Well done boys,you kept it clean and asked the questions we all know our current board can't answer. Another little reminder to Bill that we've had enough. Philip Green is getting off Scott free though...
Well done boys,you kept it clean and asked the questions we all know our current board can't answer. Another little reminder to Bill that we've had enough. Philip Green is getting off Scott free though...
Gavin Ramejkis
123 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:34:15
123 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:34:15
Ian with all the best intents in the world an audience with BB was held and it contained the farcical rants of an egomaniac out of his depth. When looked at in context, outside the directors car park before a game next to a clear banner question where called out, it simply isn't possible for joe public to get into that car park. BB's response was a quick play act on his phone then after hearing Dave Hickson's name some ineligible mutterings followed by his claim that the BU had betrayed the club; a statement without grounds.
If BB had refused to answer the questions we wouldn't even be having this discussion. As the chairman and reputed biggest Evertonian in the world, his comments were of very poor judgement and taste and to use your own phrase "gentleman" I wouldn't see as one at all.
If BB had refused to answer the questions we wouldn't even be having this discussion. As the chairman and reputed biggest Evertonian in the world, his comments were of very poor judgement and taste and to use your own phrase "gentleman" I wouldn't see as one at all.
Ian Edwards
124 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:39:30
124 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:39:30
We have a Manager playing Defenders in midfield and midfielders up front and there are fans on here banging on about Philip Green. Get a grip for fucks sake.
Gavin Ramejkis
125 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:41:19
125 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:41:19
Ian lots of people are getting a grip but you need to look and accept the bigger picture that if you peruse the registered squad take a moment to see just how it breaks down. It's full of defenders having had the strike force and creative or attacking midfield sold to appease BB's many desperation payday loan type deals hanging over the business.
I agree Moyes has gone stale and makes piss poor predictable selections week in week out but the driver behind who he has left to actually play is BB.
I agree Moyes has gone stale and makes piss poor predictable selections week in week out but the driver behind who he has left to actually play is BB.
Phil Martin
126 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:44:30
126 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:44:30
Ian you are so completely wrong.
Tell me, would you worry about a flat tyre on a car with an engine about to explode?
No money, no assets, no transfer funds, no stadium plans, no business plan, no future. That is more important than an argument over formations.
Tell me, would you worry about a flat tyre on a car with an engine about to explode?
No money, no assets, no transfer funds, no stadium plans, no business plan, no future. That is more important than an argument over formations.
Phil Rodgers
127 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:46:52
127 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:46:52
What a sorry state we were in. Kenwright promised moyes would see some of the arteta money and moyes says we will only be able to make loan signings. Maybe. That is just the latest of an endless list of bullshit. If this squad isn't invested in soon, not moyes or anyone else will be able to prevent relegation because the majority of the squad is past its best. Which will be the tip of the iceberg. I can't believe anyone can defend him.
Paul Ferry
128 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:59:07
128 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:59:07
Ian, Im totally 100 per cent with you on slamming selections, formations, tactics etc. 100 per cent. This id one side of the issue: the team and our play and our dead-in-the-wood morose utterly lacking in ctreativity manager. The other side is how the club is run, and here Billy Bullshit Kenwrongshite takes the lion share of the blame, even if it his delegation. Those well-behaved lads today were addressing this second issue. Needless to say, the two issues are tightly tangled up. One may be bigger than the other. One may become bigger at certain acute points. But they are inseparable, and calling attention to both of them, whether together or alone, ought to be at the forefront of the mind of every true blue. in a car park, meeting room, phone in, letters page, or alehouse.
Jay Harris
129 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:56:25
129 Posted 07/01/2012 at 22:56:25
Doddy
Can I just ask you do you think Black Bill was being honest when he said he didnt know what the 25 million a year unexplained operating costs are for or is he just totally incomptetent.
Do you also think its too coincidental that loans are being repaid to a company in the British Virgin Isles which is where Earle's company is registered?
Do you really believe Bill and "friends of Everton" are taking nothing out of a club they have put nothing into.
Can I just ask you do you think Black Bill was being honest when he said he didnt know what the 25 million a year unexplained operating costs are for or is he just totally incomptetent.
Do you also think its too coincidental that loans are being repaid to a company in the British Virgin Isles which is where Earle's company is registered?
Do you really believe Bill and "friends of Everton" are taking nothing out of a club they have put nothing into.
David Barks
130 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:17:29
130 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:17:29
Can people just raise the maturity a bit and just have a conversation where you don't use childish names (Billy Liar, Kenwrong, Dour Davey, etc ect). Seriously, it's not witty, it's old, you're not being creative and you're not going to land a job as a writer for a top comedy show any time soon. Could the editors maybe make a point of this, raise the level of debate just a tad. I'm glad to see you stepped in and put a stop to the childish bickering going on in this thread before, great call. It would just be so much more pleasant to be able to discuss serious issues like the current financials of the club without having to parse through immature childish name calling. It's not original, it's not clever, it honestly just makes you sound like an idiot and hurts your argument.
Gavin Ramejkis
131 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:19:09
131 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:19:09
Re the BVI, Earl has no previous for using the BVI unlike Philip Green and his wife who have used it extensively in their ongoing tax evasion activities. BCR Sports the medium Earl used to buy 23% of Everton is called an investment vehicle. The investopedia description for an "investment vehicle" refers to any method by which individuals or businesses can invest and, ideally, grow their money. There is a wide variety of investment vehicles and many investors choose to hold at least several types in their portfolios. This can allow for diversification while minimizing risk.
It's not unusual for Registered Offices of many businesses to be in the same place but Vibrac and BCR share the same RO. Whilst there is no evidence of underhanded goings on there is also, due to the implicit secrecy of registered companies in BVI for the directors to be discoverable so no definitive way of saying BCR directors do or don't have any links to Vibrac and a clear profit line from a captive lender.
It's not unusual for Registered Offices of many businesses to be in the same place but Vibrac and BCR share the same RO. Whilst there is no evidence of underhanded goings on there is also, due to the implicit secrecy of registered companies in BVI for the directors to be discoverable so no definitive way of saying BCR directors do or don't have any links to Vibrac and a clear profit line from a captive lender.
Mark Riding
132 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:34:21
132 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:34:21
Gavin, tax dodges, shady dealings / operators... and were still skint !
Gavin Ramejkis
133 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:37:23
133 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:37:23
I agree Mark its pitiful, the shady characters are no more than carpet baggers looking to get their money back, imagine a payday loans advert with some horrendous percentage APR only trouble it was in BB's head as he was hanging around with his "friends of the club", normal everyday folk would call it what it is - bloody loan sharking.
Vijay Nair
134 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:20:21
134 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:20:21
Ian, the answer to your question of why Moyes hasn't been sacked is bleeding obvious. Because Kenshite will never sack him. Why? Because Moyes is happy to bend over and do whatever he says. No other self-respecting manager would ever come in and accept the current status-quo!
Mark Riding
135 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:40:08
135 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:40:08
Gavin, we have one of the best business / money making brains in the country available for advice. People on here say he isnt interested, but having talked Everton with him briefly, I know he is a fan, and so are his lads. Name: Terry Leahy. But , no, we are left with a bloke who is clearly knowlegable in his theatre field, but woefully out of his depth as an owner of a Premier league club.
Paul Niklas
136 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:28:59
136 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:28:59
Wow. How much more embarrassing can things get for the Blue Union is this what they have reverted to? Bullying is what I call it, they continue to spout the same old noise and accusations and never come up or even attempt to be constructive.
Just for the record, Bill parks his car there in the Directors' Car Park every game ? why do you think the lunatics were waiting there for him?
Anyone who had posted support on this thread for this type of behavior is in my opinion a disgrace.
You achieved nothing again today and, as I have said many times before you have never achieved anything apart from your self-fulfilling prophecy.
We all know the problems the club has on and off the pitch at the moment. 5,000 Tamworth fans showed today that not having everything you would like does not mean you have to act like a dickhead.
Bill is right: all you have done is betray the club. I am embarrassed by this clip as I arrived at the car park I saw you all waiting for Bill to arrive laughing and looking like a mob rather than a group of supporters who could have just handed him a personal letter which he would have taken.
The best thing you could do is go away and leave the running of a privately owned club to the people who will make a difference, good or bad; at least they're trying, whether you believe it or not. It really does not matter whether you do or not anymore as you have completely ostracized yourselves from anything the club might have wanted to involve you in.
On behalf of true supporters, Bill, next time you come across these idiots, ignore them completely ? they deserve nothing else.
Just for the record, Bill parks his car there in the Directors' Car Park every game ? why do you think the lunatics were waiting there for him?
Anyone who had posted support on this thread for this type of behavior is in my opinion a disgrace.
You achieved nothing again today and, as I have said many times before you have never achieved anything apart from your self-fulfilling prophecy.
We all know the problems the club has on and off the pitch at the moment. 5,000 Tamworth fans showed today that not having everything you would like does not mean you have to act like a dickhead.
Bill is right: all you have done is betray the club. I am embarrassed by this clip as I arrived at the car park I saw you all waiting for Bill to arrive laughing and looking like a mob rather than a group of supporters who could have just handed him a personal letter which he would have taken.
The best thing you could do is go away and leave the running of a privately owned club to the people who will make a difference, good or bad; at least they're trying, whether you believe it or not. It really does not matter whether you do or not anymore as you have completely ostracized yourselves from anything the club might have wanted to involve you in.
On behalf of true supporters, Bill, next time you come across these idiots, ignore them completely ? they deserve nothing else.
Gavin Ramejkis
137 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:49:51
137 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:49:51
I'd don a tin hat Paul if all you can come up with is that blinkered shite.
Paul Ferry
138 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:47:14
138 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:47:14
Im none too fond of these self-appointed puritans and precisians who from time to time chide and lecture posters for their so-called childishness - Billy Bullshit, Kenshite etc. These posts and posters are idiotic and idiots, apparently. Good grief mature David Banks, lighten up and a little bit less of the holier-than-thou patronizing next time please.
Paul Ferry
139 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:52:27
139 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:52:27
Paul Niklas, you got to be taking the piss surely?
Mark Riding
140 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:53:11
140 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:53:11
Paul Niklas, forget Bill, did you enjoy the game today? Who was your man of the match?
Eugene Ruane
141 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:40:05
141 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:40:05
His standing there smirking at his mobile was provocative imo and HIS comment to the lads ignorant and rude, given how much they obviously care and how much time, effort and money they spend watching Everton. That there was no swearing from them, showed incredible restraint (I swear if I got within' range/earshot, I would not be able to contain myself). There was only one person who behaved like an arsehole and it was nobody from The BU.
Tony Christian
142 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:58:45
142 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:58:45
Well said Bill @ 100. I certainly have reserations about Kenwright et al but I was cringing by guerilla tactic employed by unelected idiots who claim they are standing up for the likes of me. Shameful
Micheal Lynch
143 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:51:53
143 Posted 07/01/2012 at 23:51:53
The likes of you Paul are an example of the section of our support base that will continue to leave that idiot in power. I believe its supporters like you that allow this liar stay at the helm. What those lads did to-day is what is needed and much more. . Keep accepting paul the sale of our best players. Keep accepting the lies. Wish for a stadium like Kirby. Millions in lost assets and incresed debt, Is that the Everton you want.
Paul Ferry
144 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:04:56
144 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:04:56
Love that slip up Tony Christian - calling Paul Bill. Every single one of Christian's words could have come come out of Billy's mouth. So we now need to be elected (by who?) to criticize Everton/Kenwright/ Moyes? Absolute twaddle. You sound ridiculous. Where is this strand of piety and high-minded haughtiness coming from?
Mark Riding
145 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:08:27
145 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:08:27
Tony, if he was pelted with eggs.. sworn at or abused, I would be right with you.. he wasnt..
Eddy Bernard
146 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:19:46
146 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:19:46
Looks like Bill had sunk a few prematch drinks, so i guess he is a typical fan after all.
Eddie McBride
148 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:22:16
148 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:22:16
Are there still people who truly believe that we as supporters have no right to question a man who is destroying the club we all love?
Paul Ferry
149 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:28:55
149 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:28:55
Perfect Eddie mate. Spot on.
Phil Rodgers
150 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:16:15
150 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:16:15
What are they doing wrong that is so bad? People have a right to know what is happening to the club. That was a peaceful protest yet I have seen the word hooligan in posts which is quite frankly absurd. Whatever peoples opinions of the blue union are surely we all want to know the truth and unfortunately all we hear are lies. I am really fearing for the future because all signs point to us not having one.
Aiden Doyle
151 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:50:47
151 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:50:47
Frankly, no-one comes out of that looking good.
Drew O'Neall
152 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:58:25
152 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:58:25
My overwhelming emotion while watching this was utter pride in these lad's behaviour.
Whatever you think of Bill, there is a case to answer and he's refusing in the most contrived and patronising matter,
His answers to the Blue Union, again whatever you think of them, were intended to obfuscate and while I've tries to give him the benefit of the doubt for years, you can't get away from the fact that every time he comments, he gives more credence to his accusers.
Whatever you think of Bill, there is a case to answer and he's refusing in the most contrived and patronising matter,
His answers to the Blue Union, again whatever you think of them, were intended to obfuscate and while I've tries to give him the benefit of the doubt for years, you can't get away from the fact that every time he comments, he gives more credence to his accusers.
Dean Adams
153 Posted 08/01/2012 at 01:00:53
153 Posted 08/01/2012 at 01:00:53
Dont you just love some people on this site. We all have valid opinions. Just cos some of us dont call others things like twat and wanker and arsehole does not mean that we dont think it. I often think that there are twats on here but I refrain from saying so because it serves no positive purpose.
Some see it how it is, some think they see it and others wouldnt see it if they stood in it. We are sinking, not because of tactics but because we do not have the money to survive, hence the selling of the best players.
Just because we know we are doomed is not reason enough to keep dragging us down each week.
Long live the king! Just so long as it aint Loius no more.
Some see it how it is, some think they see it and others wouldnt see it if they stood in it. We are sinking, not because of tactics but because we do not have the money to survive, hence the selling of the best players.
Just because we know we are doomed is not reason enough to keep dragging us down each week.
Long live the king! Just so long as it aint Loius no more.
Roberto Birquet
154 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:54:14
154 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:54:14
Mick Fleming
re you suggesting that ? by exposing the gross mismanagement and incompetence of our custodians ? the BU have directly created the problems you highlighted?
-------------------------
I am not suggesting anything. I am explicitly saying that, and to repeat my I actually wrote: By showing that we were a forced seller, any sales would be cheaper. Buyers know we have to sell.
Blue Union told the world we had to sell. Our accounts were not due out for months, so the extent of our predicament coulda been kept less public before the end of the transfer window. Once someone knows you have to sell something, the price will fall, unless you find a dope for a buyer.
As an Evertonian, any of us would prefer to keep the likes of Arteta, and have a bloody recognised Prem striker. But if we have to sell, any of us doesn't wanta sell for a lower price than we coulda got.
So your following rhetoirical question was fatuous, ie.
stop the protest marches and stop posting comments or we will damage the reputation of our squeaky clean and well run club.
--------------
Don't be a plonker. You can protest all you want. It's a free country. But there are more intelligent ways of protesting that the Blue Union did in publishing a private meeting they had with Bill Kenwright. Do not expect there to be such confidence shown again by thew Club. An utterly stupid stunt.
And don't tell our enemies/competitors ? ie other clubs ? that we have to sell. Everton is my and others' club too. If we are in the crap and have to sell, I'd rather fellow fans did not go round telling the world that you get our players for cheap, we're forced sellers.
I suggest you read comments a little more closely; maybe then you'd know whether you really have read more shite in the past, or whether you're not sure, 'cos you er just skim read, like, or cannot see the subtelties between totally pro vs totally anti - Kenwright. I'm neither.
re you suggesting that ? by exposing the gross mismanagement and incompetence of our custodians ? the BU have directly created the problems you highlighted?
-------------------------
I am not suggesting anything. I am explicitly saying that, and to repeat my I actually wrote: By showing that we were a forced seller, any sales would be cheaper. Buyers know we have to sell.
Blue Union told the world we had to sell. Our accounts were not due out for months, so the extent of our predicament coulda been kept less public before the end of the transfer window. Once someone knows you have to sell something, the price will fall, unless you find a dope for a buyer.
As an Evertonian, any of us would prefer to keep the likes of Arteta, and have a bloody recognised Prem striker. But if we have to sell, any of us doesn't wanta sell for a lower price than we coulda got.
So your following rhetoirical question was fatuous, ie.
stop the protest marches and stop posting comments or we will damage the reputation of our squeaky clean and well run club.
--------------
Don't be a plonker. You can protest all you want. It's a free country. But there are more intelligent ways of protesting that the Blue Union did in publishing a private meeting they had with Bill Kenwright. Do not expect there to be such confidence shown again by thew Club. An utterly stupid stunt.
And don't tell our enemies/competitors ? ie other clubs ? that we have to sell. Everton is my and others' club too. If we are in the crap and have to sell, I'd rather fellow fans did not go round telling the world that you get our players for cheap, we're forced sellers.
I suggest you read comments a little more closely; maybe then you'd know whether you really have read more shite in the past, or whether you're not sure, 'cos you er just skim read, like, or cannot see the subtelties between totally pro vs totally anti - Kenwright. I'm neither.
Gavin Ramejkis
155 Posted 08/01/2012 at 01:31:58
155 Posted 08/01/2012 at 01:31:58
It wouldn't take a five-year-old to tell you Everton were in the shit financially, a few tips:
Look at clubs who are selling everything they own and bringing nothing back in, even a glance at any web-based transfer window list would show Everton as prime targets for the last two years ? BU or no BU;
Second shot ? and far more analytical but professional ? and that's to review your competition looking at their annually posted accounts, look at the P&L and, Voila! ? a club in the shit ? again, BU or no BU.
The BU are trying to get the wider fanbase aware of the true plight of the club and get the media interested; the fanbase, like scousers, are all over the world, they may not be millionaires but each are just as interested as the other. Too long we've had club-induced soundbites as shown in the leaked emails; it's about bloody time the world knew the truth about Bullshit Bill and Earl and Woods and Green and the whole shady run of events in BB's awful stewardship.
Look at clubs who are selling everything they own and bringing nothing back in, even a glance at any web-based transfer window list would show Everton as prime targets for the last two years ? BU or no BU;
Second shot ? and far more analytical but professional ? and that's to review your competition looking at their annually posted accounts, look at the P&L and, Voila! ? a club in the shit ? again, BU or no BU.
The BU are trying to get the wider fanbase aware of the true plight of the club and get the media interested; the fanbase, like scousers, are all over the world, they may not be millionaires but each are just as interested as the other. Too long we've had club-induced soundbites as shown in the leaked emails; it's about bloody time the world knew the truth about Bullshit Bill and Earl and Woods and Green and the whole shady run of events in BB's awful stewardship.
Gavin Ramejkis
156 Posted 08/01/2012 at 01:39:52
156 Posted 08/01/2012 at 01:39:52
Oh I've re-read that and am not implying only scousers around the world are blues, just saying they are as widespread as scousers
Robbie Muldoon
157 Posted 08/01/2012 at 01:47:44
157 Posted 08/01/2012 at 01:47:44
Imagine if somebody like the Venkys bought us and tried to move us out to Kirkby!!!
Richard Styles
158 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:50:47
158 Posted 08/01/2012 at 00:50:47
I am sorry but I need to get a few things off my chest!
Re: Comments made by Paul Niklas, I am also a 'true supporter' as you call it! But I guess my definition of that is! someone who has never missed a home game since 1969, missed 4 games away since 1975.
I travel from all around Europe as I am a driver, long nights on the road, overtime to get the day off or get off early because of the silly kick-off times... My boss loves me because I was the only one working over Xmas and the New Year! All for the love of Everton.
Yes, I moan at times about Kenright and David Moyes but I love Everton FC. As a kid, my life was built around football, ate slept and drank it as they say... But at no time apart from the early 70s or a cup semi or final have Evertonians looked like supporters, we have always looked and been treated like Yobs, scallies, and thieves.
Apart from the late 70s when we brought fashion to football, yet we follow our club through thick and thin... but there does come a time when you have to make a stand against what you believe is wrong doing at our club.
We would all like to send Bill a letter and ask questions: Where is the transfer money? Why has David Moyes not been given any funds? Why is David Moyes still the manager? etc. But you know as well as I do Bill would read about 10 of those letters and then rip the stamps off, sell them and the sell the paper to Runcorn recycling....Thats the type of man he has become...
When he took over from The Hamper King Johnston, I believed it was the right time to have a new owner, and low and behold we who protested against Johnston got him out and so began the revival under Blue Bill Kenwright.... But once again things have changed and we the real supporters are looking for someone to do something. We have been lied to about moving, what the cost would be to Everton.
We have been lied to for nearly 3 years about funds available for transfares during the deadline only to have the usual Dribble thrown at us, Good players are not available, so we loaned this man, or got him on a free etc... We could have sold the Yak to West Ham for £6 million then £5 million, but we gave him away to Blackburn FOR £1.5 MILLION where he has now banged in something like 14 goals.... The Gosling saga, Pienaar left for Buttons instead of the millions he was worth.
One bad decision after another... If Bill would actually sit down with a few of the true supporters without the pantomine affect, ie: (I am a true blue in front of the camera`s etc)... Maybe we could do this in what you called a civilized way. But he wont now unless we all turn up in our Birthday suits BECAUSE he is afraid he would say something every Everton Supporter should know anyway.... So Car parks, Door Entrances, pubs and clubs it is, until he is ousted as owner or he sells the club with all debts included.If he bought some players he well be forgiven.
Those Yobs or gangs or whatever way you want to refare to them as, are my spokes person while I am not there to do it myself...Well done to the Blue Union. Thanks for not swearing at Bill, I know that took a lot after the Bolton game... This is the People's Club and the people are the supporters... without us there is no Everton FC.
Re: Comments made by Paul Niklas, I am also a 'true supporter' as you call it! But I guess my definition of that is! someone who has never missed a home game since 1969, missed 4 games away since 1975.
I travel from all around Europe as I am a driver, long nights on the road, overtime to get the day off or get off early because of the silly kick-off times... My boss loves me because I was the only one working over Xmas and the New Year! All for the love of Everton.
Yes, I moan at times about Kenright and David Moyes but I love Everton FC. As a kid, my life was built around football, ate slept and drank it as they say... But at no time apart from the early 70s or a cup semi or final have Evertonians looked like supporters, we have always looked and been treated like Yobs, scallies, and thieves.
Apart from the late 70s when we brought fashion to football, yet we follow our club through thick and thin... but there does come a time when you have to make a stand against what you believe is wrong doing at our club.
We would all like to send Bill a letter and ask questions: Where is the transfer money? Why has David Moyes not been given any funds? Why is David Moyes still the manager? etc. But you know as well as I do Bill would read about 10 of those letters and then rip the stamps off, sell them and the sell the paper to Runcorn recycling....Thats the type of man he has become...
When he took over from The Hamper King Johnston, I believed it was the right time to have a new owner, and low and behold we who protested against Johnston got him out and so began the revival under Blue Bill Kenwright.... But once again things have changed and we the real supporters are looking for someone to do something. We have been lied to about moving, what the cost would be to Everton.
We have been lied to for nearly 3 years about funds available for transfares during the deadline only to have the usual Dribble thrown at us, Good players are not available, so we loaned this man, or got him on a free etc... We could have sold the Yak to West Ham for £6 million then £5 million, but we gave him away to Blackburn FOR £1.5 MILLION where he has now banged in something like 14 goals.... The Gosling saga, Pienaar left for Buttons instead of the millions he was worth.
One bad decision after another... If Bill would actually sit down with a few of the true supporters without the pantomine affect, ie: (I am a true blue in front of the camera`s etc)... Maybe we could do this in what you called a civilized way. But he wont now unless we all turn up in our Birthday suits BECAUSE he is afraid he would say something every Everton Supporter should know anyway.... So Car parks, Door Entrances, pubs and clubs it is, until he is ousted as owner or he sells the club with all debts included.If he bought some players he well be forgiven.
Those Yobs or gangs or whatever way you want to refare to them as, are my spokes person while I am not there to do it myself...Well done to the Blue Union. Thanks for not swearing at Bill, I know that took a lot after the Bolton game... This is the People's Club and the people are the supporters... without us there is no Everton FC.
Paul Ferry
159 Posted 08/01/2012 at 02:25:12
159 Posted 08/01/2012 at 02:25:12
A wonderful post, Richard, mate ? personal, poignant, points that hit home, and full of love for Everton. What a wonderful record of support. A true blue with feeling, exactly what we need right now. I would love for you and Kenwright to sit down together for a broadcasted conversation.
Robbie Shields
160 Posted 08/01/2012 at 02:37:17
160 Posted 08/01/2012 at 02:37:17
Hear hear, great post Richard. This is what supporting Everton FC is all about, an institution loved by generations of blues, some of which are now scattered to the four corners of the world (such as myself), but still a blue through and through.
Everton is NOT Bill Kenwright, it is NOT David Moyes, it is the generations of Evertonians that have supported the club for over 130 years. The Blue Union are trying to make sure there is an Everton for future generations, long after Blue Bill and Moyes have dissappeared out of sight.
Kenwright and Moyes Out!!!
Everton is NOT Bill Kenwright, it is NOT David Moyes, it is the generations of Evertonians that have supported the club for over 130 years. The Blue Union are trying to make sure there is an Everton for future generations, long after Blue Bill and Moyes have dissappeared out of sight.
Kenwright and Moyes Out!!!
Derek Thomas
161 Posted 08/01/2012 at 03:04:19
161 Posted 08/01/2012 at 03:04:19
Paul Niklas # 100; BU is a in real terms just a focus group. Their job is to raise awareness.
Standing there quietly and holding out a letter for Bill to maybe take, if he feels like and read if he feels like, is not going to do it.
It may be just me but I thought that the guys on our side of the fence were gritting their teeth to keep it civilised.
Mark # 99; with the 6 degrees of separation thingy some one must be able to have a long word with Sir Terry and see, in plain terms, just how arsed he is and has he any ideas to offer or more to the point get involved either infront or behind the scenes.
With no public access via AGMs and no openness re the other operating costs. The questions that need answering and asking are hanging in the wind. BU is doing the thing that needs doing any way they can in a reasonablely polite manner... no horse's head in the bed yet.
Only horse's arses in charge.
Standing there quietly and holding out a letter for Bill to maybe take, if he feels like and read if he feels like, is not going to do it.
It may be just me but I thought that the guys on our side of the fence were gritting their teeth to keep it civilised.
Mark # 99; with the 6 degrees of separation thingy some one must be able to have a long word with Sir Terry and see, in plain terms, just how arsed he is and has he any ideas to offer or more to the point get involved either infront or behind the scenes.
With no public access via AGMs and no openness re the other operating costs. The questions that need answering and asking are hanging in the wind. BU is doing the thing that needs doing any way they can in a reasonablely polite manner... no horse's head in the bed yet.
Only horse's arses in charge.
Richard Dodd
162 Posted 08/01/2012 at 09:17:14
162 Posted 08/01/2012 at 09:17:14
It may be something about his name but I like Richard`s Style (s) and generally agree with the approach he takes to the vexed question of Kenwright`s continuing tenure.
Throughout the autumn,Bill`s acolytes were indicating both privately and publically that money would be made available to Moyes for re-inforcements in the current window.
To a VERY limited extent,this promise has been met by the temporary signing of Donovan but this addition has been offset by loaning out of virtually every reserve player breathing.
I do have to admit that presently my long standing support of BK is being stretched to the limit and yesterday his abject performance `at the gates`went near to tipping me over the edge to cynicism.
So,I have decided to take action-or more accurately,inaction -by restraining myself from posting further until the window shuts and a judgement can properly be made on the veracity of promises/undertakings/soundbites eminating from the Chairman`s office.
Hoorah! I hear you cry.But unlike so many,I am prepared to give our man time to make good on his promises.So,until 2nd February,adieu,dear friends,adieu!
Throughout the autumn,Bill`s acolytes were indicating both privately and publically that money would be made available to Moyes for re-inforcements in the current window.
To a VERY limited extent,this promise has been met by the temporary signing of Donovan but this addition has been offset by loaning out of virtually every reserve player breathing.
I do have to admit that presently my long standing support of BK is being stretched to the limit and yesterday his abject performance `at the gates`went near to tipping me over the edge to cynicism.
So,I have decided to take action-or more accurately,inaction -by restraining myself from posting further until the window shuts and a judgement can properly be made on the veracity of promises/undertakings/soundbites eminating from the Chairman`s office.
Hoorah! I hear you cry.But unlike so many,I am prepared to give our man time to make good on his promises.So,until 2nd February,adieu,dear friends,adieu!
Derek Thomas
163 Posted 08/01/2012 at 09:41:12
163 Posted 08/01/2012 at 09:41:12
Doddy's waivering, well reserving judgement, which is much the same for him. Bill, the writings on the wall, faint, but there. When will you see it.
John Talbot
164 Posted 08/01/2012 at 09:50:28
164 Posted 08/01/2012 at 09:50:28
This clip just shows through the comments how divided everyone is on the issue of the sale of Everton.
The school ground bullying through the railings doesn't show the argument in a good light though. This 'setting up' of Kenwright doesn't really help and makes the argument look cheap.
The school ground bullying through the railings doesn't show the argument in a good light though. This 'setting up' of Kenwright doesn't really help and makes the argument look cheap.
Robbie Shields
165 Posted 08/01/2012 at 09:54:14
165 Posted 08/01/2012 at 09:54:14
Doddy, that's a very sensible approach, you must be absolutely knackered anyway tring to defend Kenwright. I wouldn't be surprised if the pressures got to you too. I've gradually changed my mind about Kenwright over the last 5 years, bit by bit he eroded his blue credentials with me by selling off our assets, the lies over DK and his treatment of the Blue Union has now made actively dislike the bloke. It goes against the grain to argue with fellow blues, that's actually the one thing I don't like about ToffeeWeb, invariably you end up arguing with another mad Evertonian who just thinks differently, that's all. All the best.
Wayne Smyth
166 Posted 08/01/2012 at 09:54:10
166 Posted 08/01/2012 at 09:54:10
Roberto, firstly, for how many years has Kenwright had the time & space to find a suitable buyer or investment?
How many years do we expect supporters who care about this club to sit idly by and do nothing while the club goes down the toilet?
The media don't care and aren't doing anything, the manager isn't going to rock the boat while he's able to pick up his pressure-free £3.5M / year.
Its clear if Bill were to sell up tomorrow that he'd get more than the money he paid for the club, adjusting for inflation. If he's a true fan, what does it matter if he makes a profit of £20M rather than £100M? I certainly don't care, neither should bill.
Infact if he truly put the club first, he would be asking for a nominal price to attract the maximum number of buyers, so that he could pick the one with the best intentions.
If you look at the facts about the club's financial position when Bill Kenwright bought the club, and our position now, having played consistently in the richest league in the world with record amounts of TV money coming in year on year, its clear that Kenwright and the board have presided over an almost criminal mis-management of the club. We have virtually no assets left, the banks at our door, we're paying obscene interest rates to shady third parties because - I assume - traditional lenders wont lend to us because of the clown in charge.
It honestly beggars belief that anyone in their right mind thinks that Kenwright and his cronies are the right people to manage this club. The more you hear from him the more you see how far out of his depth he is.
How many years do we expect supporters who care about this club to sit idly by and do nothing while the club goes down the toilet?
The media don't care and aren't doing anything, the manager isn't going to rock the boat while he's able to pick up his pressure-free £3.5M / year.
Its clear if Bill were to sell up tomorrow that he'd get more than the money he paid for the club, adjusting for inflation. If he's a true fan, what does it matter if he makes a profit of £20M rather than £100M? I certainly don't care, neither should bill.
Infact if he truly put the club first, he would be asking for a nominal price to attract the maximum number of buyers, so that he could pick the one with the best intentions.
If you look at the facts about the club's financial position when Bill Kenwright bought the club, and our position now, having played consistently in the richest league in the world with record amounts of TV money coming in year on year, its clear that Kenwright and the board have presided over an almost criminal mis-management of the club. We have virtually no assets left, the banks at our door, we're paying obscene interest rates to shady third parties because - I assume - traditional lenders wont lend to us because of the clown in charge.
It honestly beggars belief that anyone in their right mind thinks that Kenwright and his cronies are the right people to manage this club. The more you hear from him the more you see how far out of his depth he is.
Paul Gladwell
167 Posted 08/01/2012 at 10:20:07
167 Posted 08/01/2012 at 10:20:07
Paul Nicklas, bullying is throwing people out of your ground for having banners of protest.
Bullying is banning any press members from the club for asking questions thousands want to know
I am a true Evertonian and like you I was there yesterday to witness AGAIN a home performance that was diabolical and the men to blame need to be questioned because things are going to get a lot worse but people like you are willing to let things ride until its too late, well Paul that's why this club is in the state it is, we will be looking at 27,000 gates next seaon and the worrying thing is that the clown you defend is obviously turning a blind eye and no doubt kidding himself that the missing thousands are down to the recession, being ignorant and doing nothing gets you knowhere.
Bullying is banning any press members from the club for asking questions thousands want to know
I am a true Evertonian and like you I was there yesterday to witness AGAIN a home performance that was diabolical and the men to blame need to be questioned because things are going to get a lot worse but people like you are willing to let things ride until its too late, well Paul that's why this club is in the state it is, we will be looking at 27,000 gates next seaon and the worrying thing is that the clown you defend is obviously turning a blind eye and no doubt kidding himself that the missing thousands are down to the recession, being ignorant and doing nothing gets you knowhere.
Stephen Kenny
168 Posted 08/01/2012 at 10:35:48
168 Posted 08/01/2012 at 10:35:48
Paul Niklas
'Bullying is what I call it, they continue to spout the same old noise and accusations and never come up or even attempt to be constructive.'
The Loop
The Football Quarter
The Kirkby Documents predicting a call in.
They may or may not be great ideas, but they are ideas. No one associated with the club seems to have any that might move us forward. Avery short sighted comment IMO.
'Bullying is what I call it, they continue to spout the same old noise and accusations and never come up or even attempt to be constructive.'
The Loop
The Football Quarter
The Kirkby Documents predicting a call in.
They may or may not be great ideas, but they are ideas. No one associated with the club seems to have any that might move us forward. Avery short sighted comment IMO.
Stephen Kenny
169 Posted 08/01/2012 at 10:50:19
169 Posted 08/01/2012 at 10:50:19
Roberto,
Bill has been shouting from the rooftops how skint we are for a decade.
Nobody needed to highlight it. It was obvious when we sold the greatest English player of his generation, who will probably go on to be our all time highest scorer, for a box of milk tray.
Bill has been shouting from the rooftops how skint we are for a decade.
Nobody needed to highlight it. It was obvious when we sold the greatest English player of his generation, who will probably go on to be our all time highest scorer, for a box of milk tray.
Wayne McNee
170 Posted 08/01/2012 at 10:47:29
170 Posted 08/01/2012 at 10:47:29
Classic... I'm BBM'ing on my Blackberry & too busy to hear / see you manoeuvre ( I do the same to Big Issue sellers )... All the while trying to think of a come back. That was the best he could come up with?! Definitely under the influence IMO, hence the need for drivers. Shame he's not so careful with EFC.
Not an ideal scenario but that's what needs doing if he's not prepared to dish the facts / truths of what the fuck is going on!?
Not an ideal scenario but that's what needs doing if he's not prepared to dish the facts / truths of what the fuck is going on!?
Eugene Ruane
171 Posted 08/01/2012 at 10:54:27
171 Posted 08/01/2012 at 10:54:27
Richard Styles (122) - spot on, nail on head etc.
During the whole DK fiasco, there were many on TW (and other forums) giving KEIOC down the banks (nb: some posters even using their real names!)
KEIOC were a 'mob' and 'what do they know?' etc blah.
Well as it turned out, they were real Evertonians who knew a fuck of a lot more than Bill (and Wyness and Elstone) and it seems some had (and still have) a hard time with that.
Now another bunch of genuine Everton supporters challenges the useless men in suits and the (apparently) same bunch of blow-hard know-nothings are, once again, giving us the benefit of their 'wisdom'.
Maybe it's simply a case of - "I'm not supporting anyone who showed me up to be full of shite - so fuck the BU".
That's just a guess but a couple of weeks back, Tom Hughes posted that (in his opinion), there were many who would rather see us relegated than admit they were wrong.
I thought he was (also) spot-on and I think genuinely insulting, gibberish posts like 100 are proof of it.
During the whole DK fiasco, there were many on TW (and other forums) giving KEIOC down the banks (nb: some posters even using their real names!)
KEIOC were a 'mob' and 'what do they know?' etc blah.
Well as it turned out, they were real Evertonians who knew a fuck of a lot more than Bill (and Wyness and Elstone) and it seems some had (and still have) a hard time with that.
Now another bunch of genuine Everton supporters challenges the useless men in suits and the (apparently) same bunch of blow-hard know-nothings are, once again, giving us the benefit of their 'wisdom'.
Maybe it's simply a case of - "I'm not supporting anyone who showed me up to be full of shite - so fuck the BU".
That's just a guess but a couple of weeks back, Tom Hughes posted that (in his opinion), there were many who would rather see us relegated than admit they were wrong.
I thought he was (also) spot-on and I think genuinely insulting, gibberish posts like 100 are proof of it.
Mick Fleming
172 Posted 08/01/2012 at 10:53:59
172 Posted 08/01/2012 at 10:53:59
Roberto Birquet
Wasnt it BK who told the world he wanted to sell, and the financial plight of our club has been openly publicised for many years. Last years accounts highlighted debts and financial problems. Everyone knows we are skint what couldn't be answered was why, I think the BU have made efforts to get an answer to that question.
I agree that you are not suggesting anything, you are clearly stating that the BU told the world that we had to sell. You also infer that this forces us to sell and that the prices dramatically fall.
I did read your post and whilst you have criticised some of the actions of the BU it would be good if you could share some of your more intelligent ideas, or do you suggest we put up and shut up?
As for me being a plonker for the march protest comment, I respond by reiterating what a load of shite I read which is reinforced by your latest post.
Wasnt it BK who told the world he wanted to sell, and the financial plight of our club has been openly publicised for many years. Last years accounts highlighted debts and financial problems. Everyone knows we are skint what couldn't be answered was why, I think the BU have made efforts to get an answer to that question.
I agree that you are not suggesting anything, you are clearly stating that the BU told the world that we had to sell. You also infer that this forces us to sell and that the prices dramatically fall.
I did read your post and whilst you have criticised some of the actions of the BU it would be good if you could share some of your more intelligent ideas, or do you suggest we put up and shut up?
As for me being a plonker for the march protest comment, I respond by reiterating what a load of shite I read which is reinforced by your latest post.
Andy Callen
173 Posted 08/01/2012 at 11:35:10
173 Posted 08/01/2012 at 11:35:10
I felt uncomfortble watching this and at first felt it showed the BU in a poor light - like a gang picking on one (very) weak person.
However on reflection and after reading some of the above comments I agree it shows strenght on the part of the BU, with well articulated questions regarding past statements made by Mr Kenwright. It's a shame Kenwright felt he had to resort to a slagging match, something I applaud the lads asking the questions for not responding to and maintaining a more dignified approach. When will the local and national press start asking the question that are so obviouse to the majority of Evertonians? Will it only become clear after the current transfer window when we once again fail to spend any money on new players to improve the squad? Or will they swallow the predictable line that the money wasn't spent as there is no value in the January market... NSNO
However on reflection and after reading some of the above comments I agree it shows strenght on the part of the BU, with well articulated questions regarding past statements made by Mr Kenwright. It's a shame Kenwright felt he had to resort to a slagging match, something I applaud the lads asking the questions for not responding to and maintaining a more dignified approach. When will the local and national press start asking the question that are so obviouse to the majority of Evertonians? Will it only become clear after the current transfer window when we once again fail to spend any money on new players to improve the squad? Or will they swallow the predictable line that the money wasn't spent as there is no value in the January market... NSNO
Stephen Kenny
174 Posted 08/01/2012 at 11:39:02
174 Posted 08/01/2012 at 11:39:02
Maybe it's simply a case of - "I'm not supporting anyone who showed me up to be full of shite - so fuck the BU".
Spot on. We've probably all had times where we carried on arguing the toss long after we knew we were in the wrong.
Spot on. We've probably all had times where we carried on arguing the toss long after we knew we were in the wrong.
Stuart Gray
175 Posted 08/01/2012 at 12:02:04
175 Posted 08/01/2012 at 12:02:04
It would be nice and pretty easy for BK to answer the questions asked. So you just have to ask why doesn't he?
Robbie Muldoon
176 Posted 08/01/2012 at 12:31:09
176 Posted 08/01/2012 at 12:31:09
Richard Styles (122) great post mate.
Paul Niklas
177 Posted 08/01/2012 at 12:14:07
177 Posted 08/01/2012 at 12:14:07
Stuart at 139
How About the very fact that he does not have too?
There is a time and a place for this type of thing, the Blue Union were given that but abused the privilege. Therefore they have only themselves to blame for the lack of any response or respect from the club as yesterday shows they have no respect or indeed, in my opinion, integrity.
Everton fans for some reason think it's their club; if it was, I would be in agreement with some of their actions. The fact is it's not, and whilst I am 100 per cent of the belief BIll does believe it's their club also, he has every right now to treat them accordingly as the behavior of these type of supporters is appalling.
My opinion and I don't care what anyone else thinks. Something the Blue Union did achieve, by the way ? they got the club to not take them seriously.
How About the very fact that he does not have too?
There is a time and a place for this type of thing, the Blue Union were given that but abused the privilege. Therefore they have only themselves to blame for the lack of any response or respect from the club as yesterday shows they have no respect or indeed, in my opinion, integrity.
Everton fans for some reason think it's their club; if it was, I would be in agreement with some of their actions. The fact is it's not, and whilst I am 100 per cent of the belief BIll does believe it's their club also, he has every right now to treat them accordingly as the behavior of these type of supporters is appalling.
My opinion and I don't care what anyone else thinks. Something the Blue Union did achieve, by the way ? they got the club to not take them seriously.
Wayne Smyth
178 Posted 08/01/2012 at 12:53:10
178 Posted 08/01/2012 at 12:53:10
Paul, would an appropriate time to ask such questions be at a shareholders AGM?
Perhaps if Bill wasn't so "bored" all the time, there wouldn't be a need to be shouting through car-park railings.
Perhaps if Bill wasn't so "bored" all the time, there wouldn't be a need to be shouting through car-park railings.
Colin Wainwright
180 Posted 08/01/2012 at 12:57:25
180 Posted 08/01/2012 at 12:57:25
When has this current board ever shown respect for the supporters Paul?
The years of blatant lies and financial mis-management, shows that Bill has no respect for this club, its traditions and its supporters and that it is he and his board that lack integrity.
You can choose to go through life with you're eyes shut if you wish. Thank god some evertonians have a clear view of whats happening.
The years of blatant lies and financial mis-management, shows that Bill has no respect for this club, its traditions and its supporters and that it is he and his board that lack integrity.
You can choose to go through life with you're eyes shut if you wish. Thank god some evertonians have a clear view of whats happening.
Paul Niklas
181 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:10:39
181 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:10:39
Eugene.
I could have typed it better but on an iPhone while busy doing other stuff I can live with it.
As for you if that's all you have to say then you're an idiot
If there is a job going at the club for proof-reading, maybe you should apply. I can take feedback criticism any time but not from someone like you and for that. Proves to me that some just come on here to be trite or just have nothing better to do.
Go back to your bedsit and send a letter to Readers Digest, you might get more appreciated.
Sorry Michael but it's pricks like thus guy that make anyone wanting to make a point hardly worth it.
I could have typed it better but on an iPhone while busy doing other stuff I can live with it.
As for you if that's all you have to say then you're an idiot
If there is a job going at the club for proof-reading, maybe you should apply. I can take feedback criticism any time but not from someone like you and for that. Proves to me that some just come on here to be trite or just have nothing better to do.
Go back to your bedsit and send a letter to Readers Digest, you might get more appreciated.
Sorry Michael but it's pricks like thus guy that make anyone wanting to make a point hardly worth it.
Colin Wainwright
182 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:22:17
182 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:22:17
Strong stuff Paul. TBH anyone who spouts the ''real evertonian'' shite on here deserves ridicule.
Andrew Mackenzie
183 Posted 08/01/2012 at 12:56:28
183 Posted 08/01/2012 at 12:56:28
Paul - what frightens me most is that 'you don't care what anyone thinks'...
So basically you are saying you are not prepared to listen to an alternative point of view?
Have you thought of a career with the European Commission?
As Bill would say, 'have you got this written down'...
Doomed, we are all doomed!
So basically you are saying you are not prepared to listen to an alternative point of view?
Have you thought of a career with the European Commission?
As Bill would say, 'have you got this written down'...
Doomed, we are all doomed!
Kevin Hudson
184 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:06:47
184 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:06:47
I think their credibility was damaged the moment they leaked the details of an apparently confidential meeting.
For this, and other reasons I'm one of the regular match-goers who deliberately gave them a wide berth, and I don't think the ambush tactics do them any favours here.
Reading their 'manifesto,' I also think many of their objectives are pie-in-the-sky & presumptuous. although I concede that (in amateur-looking fashion) they?re at least getting of their arses to try to do something to improve the club.
But their mission statement is spread way too thin:
They wish to ?actively work against Sectarianism.? Why..? Who asked them to..? When was the last time any of us heard a Sectarian chant at Goodison? Or are they planning to head up to Glasgow & Belfast, and preach to the natives..?
They also wish to elect a Fans Parliament (or talking shop), amid ?fostering an agenda of tolerance and harmony," whatever that means.
That they, despite NOT being employed by the club, wish to ?assist the Owner, the Chairman, the Board and the Executive Officers in their endeavour to attract investment and/or a take-over of the club.?
And oblivious to the fact that they haven't actually been invited, wish to involve themselves in the new stadium project.
As though a multi-million pound company is going to welcome a motley group poking into it?s affairs.
..After having a confidential meeting with them, leaked, by them, in public.
Gerrymandering the national media into highlighting the lack of investment is however, something. Although their effectiveness, regarding their (vague, Obama-like) calls for "Change." remains to be seen.
For this, and other reasons I'm one of the regular match-goers who deliberately gave them a wide berth, and I don't think the ambush tactics do them any favours here.
Reading their 'manifesto,' I also think many of their objectives are pie-in-the-sky & presumptuous. although I concede that (in amateur-looking fashion) they?re at least getting of their arses to try to do something to improve the club.
But their mission statement is spread way too thin:
They wish to ?actively work against Sectarianism.? Why..? Who asked them to..? When was the last time any of us heard a Sectarian chant at Goodison? Or are they planning to head up to Glasgow & Belfast, and preach to the natives..?
They also wish to elect a Fans Parliament (or talking shop), amid ?fostering an agenda of tolerance and harmony," whatever that means.
That they, despite NOT being employed by the club, wish to ?assist the Owner, the Chairman, the Board and the Executive Officers in their endeavour to attract investment and/or a take-over of the club.?
And oblivious to the fact that they haven't actually been invited, wish to involve themselves in the new stadium project.
As though a multi-million pound company is going to welcome a motley group poking into it?s affairs.
..After having a confidential meeting with them, leaked, by them, in public.
Gerrymandering the national media into highlighting the lack of investment is however, something. Although their effectiveness, regarding their (vague, Obama-like) calls for "Change." remains to be seen.
Paul Niklas
185 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:29:13
185 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:29:13
Andrew. I do care and I respect most of it also but my opinion is also a belief.
I have no time for idiots posting silly points about spelling and grammar and, more importantly, people who just want to slag people off for the sake of it or just because it's fashionable.
There are some very intelligent people who post on this site including members of the various forums. I for one just have a differing opinion to most, it does not stop me posting my thoughts and I expect grief for it; however, Eugene's post is more embarrassing to him than it is for me as I have the credentials to prove him wrong, even in the grammatical front.
Michael remove me if I have said something wrong.
I have no time for idiots posting silly points about spelling and grammar and, more importantly, people who just want to slag people off for the sake of it or just because it's fashionable.
There are some very intelligent people who post on this site including members of the various forums. I for one just have a differing opinion to most, it does not stop me posting my thoughts and I expect grief for it; however, Eugene's post is more embarrassing to him than it is for me as I have the credentials to prove him wrong, even in the grammatical front.
Michael remove me if I have said something wrong.
Eddie McBride
186 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:31:35
186 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:31:35
Is Paul Nicklas really Billy liar,he seems to have thrown the toys out of the pram very quickly .Very much like the chap on the clip when faced with not unreasonable criticism
Max Fine
187 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:33:28
187 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:33:28
Kevin Hudson (148) - by far and away the best post on here. I agree with everything you say.
Andrew Mackenzie
188 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:33:23
188 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:33:23
Kevin - you've convinced me, your absolutely right, everything's fine, we don't need a new ground, or are desperate for new players. We're riding high in the EPL, balance sheet looks fantastic and the club is renowned in the media for having a great relationship with its fan base, who are lucky to get a ticket for sell out games to watch the blue wave wash over opposition teams with their delightful attacking football... the last thing we need is a group of self appointed radical free thinking fans who don't agree with the wonderful way the club is being run.
Apologies for the overdose in sarcasm but I despair.
Apologies for the overdose in sarcasm but I despair.
John Audsley
189 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:30:27
189 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:30:27
Hmmm, interesting stuff...
I have to say that some people on the site make me want to cry, i get the impression that if they came home one night and found BB stealing the family car, TV, PC etc, that they would simply say "Oh, its only BB and he's a Blue like us... let him have it.
Any road, we've got at least 4 players we can sell for £10m so at least the next 4 transfer windows should be fine....
I have to say that some people on the site make me want to cry, i get the impression that if they came home one night and found BB stealing the family car, TV, PC etc, that they would simply say "Oh, its only BB and he's a Blue like us... let him have it.
Any road, we've got at least 4 players we can sell for £10m so at least the next 4 transfer windows should be fine....
Paul Niklas
190 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:42:12
190 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:42:12
Eddie. My toys may have been thrown out the pram. Do you really think criticism for grammar is reasonable on the basis of such an enlightening and interesting thread?
Martin Mason
191 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:51:05
191 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:51:05
Couldn't put it better myself Kevin.
Paul Niklas
192 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:54:33
192 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:54:33
Well said Kevin.
Bob Turner
193 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:54:00
193 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:54:00
Eugene 143
If you are going to criticise anyone for spelling and/or grammar, it would be wise to ensure you don't get it wrong yourself.
"as it's content"...?
"Hoist by your own petard" springs to mind.
If you are going to criticise anyone for spelling and/or grammar, it would be wise to ensure you don't get it wrong yourself.
"as it's content"...?
"Hoist by your own petard" springs to mind.
John Keating
194 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:29:35
194 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:29:35
Paul. I know you don't care what anyoneone else thinks - sure you must have a fantastic family life, so it obviously won't upset you when I think - in my opinion - you talk a load of shite !
I've been going since early 60's and I can honestly say theres not one director or player at present who deserve the right to represent our club.
The directors, led by Kenwright are a disgrace.
The players, for all their apologetic "tweets" and pieces in the Echo saying they realise its not good enough etc etc are not fit to wear the jersey !
I don't know where you sit in the ground but it must be a real bundle of fun area where you and your fellow like minded supportere sit and clap yet another abysmal performance by a bunch of shite.
Does no one around you scream, boo, shout, swear ???
If you think those lads from the BU were unruly and a disgrace thank fuck you don't go to the same match as I do !
I've been going since early 60's and I can honestly say theres not one director or player at present who deserve the right to represent our club.
The directors, led by Kenwright are a disgrace.
The players, for all their apologetic "tweets" and pieces in the Echo saying they realise its not good enough etc etc are not fit to wear the jersey !
I don't know where you sit in the ground but it must be a real bundle of fun area where you and your fellow like minded supportere sit and clap yet another abysmal performance by a bunch of shite.
Does no one around you scream, boo, shout, swear ???
If you think those lads from the BU were unruly and a disgrace thank fuck you don't go to the same match as I do !
Danny Broderick
196 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:36:46
196 Posted 08/01/2012 at 13:36:46
The BU meeting with Kenwright wasn't a private meeting!!!
All along,they were going to feedback to their members. They were never going to have a meeting and not divulge any of the details. What would have been the point of that?
The club didn't like it and did a brilliant bit of PR by stating that the meeting had been recorded maliciously. There was no proof of this,yet suddenly everyone in the media lapped it up and focused on that instead of the content of the meeting.
I can't believe there are Everton fans out there who don't realise this. Is there any proof that the meeting was recorded? No. It was a tactic used by the club to sidestep the issues highlighted by the BU.
All along,they were going to feedback to their members. They were never going to have a meeting and not divulge any of the details. What would have been the point of that?
The club didn't like it and did a brilliant bit of PR by stating that the meeting had been recorded maliciously. There was no proof of this,yet suddenly everyone in the media lapped it up and focused on that instead of the content of the meeting.
I can't believe there are Everton fans out there who don't realise this. Is there any proof that the meeting was recorded? No. It was a tactic used by the club to sidestep the issues highlighted by the BU.
John Crawley
197 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:00:13
197 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:00:13
Kevin Hudson (148) you state "I think their credibility was damaged the moment they leaked the details of an apparently confidential meeting."
Unfortunately that is incorrect the meeting was never intended to be confidential and it was agreed before hand with the club that the supporters would release a report of that meeting.
You have simply regurgitated the clubs attack on the Blue Union which they spun to the media after the event when they realised how bad the report made Bill Kenwright look.
Unfortunately that is incorrect the meeting was never intended to be confidential and it was agreed before hand with the club that the supporters would release a report of that meeting.
You have simply regurgitated the clubs attack on the Blue Union which they spun to the media after the event when they realised how bad the report made Bill Kenwright look.
Terry McLavey
198 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:06:54
198 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:06:54
Typical fat cat reaction these c***s are everywhere ! smug bastard he needs to fuck off to west end with the rest of his luvvies and leave the club to people who care !
Alex Mullan
199 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:16:17
199 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:16:17
I felt really uncomfortable watching this. I will give credit to the guys asking the questions for doing so in a mostly respectful manner. If I am honest, I was waiting for it to degenerate into vitriol toward the end, but it did not.
Sadly, this is the only way you can actually get a modern 'owner' to speak nowadays.
The entire atmosphere around this club is just so terribly regretful at the moment.
Sadly, this is the only way you can actually get a modern 'owner' to speak nowadays.
The entire atmosphere around this club is just so terribly regretful at the moment.
Kevin Hudson
200 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:10:15
200 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:10:15
John Crawley,
There is a world of difference between releasing a report, and publicising the minutes of the meeting.
Everton contemplated legal action against the Blue Union, who AGREED that there would be NO note taking. Instead, they secretly taped the entire conversation.
Andrew Mackenzie,
Following your sarcastic lead, perhaps I should have premised my contribution by stating that I agree the team is under-performing, investment is needed, and that Kenwright should go.
(Oh wait..I HAVE indicated all of these things, on THIS very thread, but you've seemingly ignored this).
Still, at least it's (selectively) obvious to you that I DON'T think the BU is entirely the answer to all our prayers
There is a world of difference between releasing a report, and publicising the minutes of the meeting.
Everton contemplated legal action against the Blue Union, who AGREED that there would be NO note taking. Instead, they secretly taped the entire conversation.
Andrew Mackenzie,
Following your sarcastic lead, perhaps I should have premised my contribution by stating that I agree the team is under-performing, investment is needed, and that Kenwright should go.
(Oh wait..I HAVE indicated all of these things, on THIS very thread, but you've seemingly ignored this).
Still, at least it's (selectively) obvious to you that I DON'T think the BU is entirely the answer to all our prayers
Paul Niklas
201 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:12:27
201 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:12:27
Eugene. Ignorance for you maybe bliss.
Would not be surprised if you're one of the lunatics berating Bill.
I sit with supporters who know about business and also love the club, they shout and scream during the match as much as anyone else in the ground, they just know and empathize with the current plight but don't try and make things any more difficult by acting in a way that is not helpful to anyone.
As for you, you're one of the minority who nobody will ever take seriously. I will post no more on this thread as the very thought of engaging with the likes of you sickens me.
Would not be surprised if you're one of the lunatics berating Bill.
I sit with supporters who know about business and also love the club, they shout and scream during the match as much as anyone else in the ground, they just know and empathize with the current plight but don't try and make things any more difficult by acting in a way that is not helpful to anyone.
As for you, you're one of the minority who nobody will ever take seriously. I will post no more on this thread as the very thought of engaging with the likes of you sickens me.
Danny Broderick
202 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:30:55
202 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:30:55
Kevin Hudson,
Where is the proof that the BU taped the meeting? If you are going to state it like a fact,back it up please...
Where is the proof that the BU taped the meeting? If you are going to state it like a fact,back it up please...
Gary Carter
203 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:27:38
203 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:27:38
152 Andrew Mackenzie - What a very grown up response to someone that despite not being a supporter of the BU was prepared to see both sides of their somewhat dubious coin, and you wonder why the BU has such little credibility with the club, the national media and yes, its own fans. I think that Kevin makes some very valid and pertinent points about the BU, they lost ANY chance of being taken seriously the very second they leaked that meeting. Now because I agree with Kevin do I think we dont need money, players, a stadium etc etc, no of course I dont !
Eddie McBride
204 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:26:51
204 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:26:51
Paul I do agree that nobody should be criticised for spelling mistakes. however I also think somebody telling deliberate lies should be brought to account
David Hallwood
205 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:55:55
205 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:55:55
Could the ?O? Eng Lit invigilators leave the room please and let?s get back to football, (but I would point out that let?s is an abbreviation of ?let us? hence the apostrophe)
For me the central questions are; is the club actually up for sale and more importantly what sort of price is the board looking for. If the club is up for sale (and it?s only an ?if?) it becoming obvious that the asking price is too high and they will have to revalue the price significantly downwards to get it off their hands. The board (I refuse to single out Kenwright for blame) appear to be suffering from a delusion that a lot of business people do when their businesses go tits up, namely a refusal to face up to the fact that all their hard work isn?t going to be rewarded in the manner that they believe it should be.
But their business model has failed for a variety of reasons some of them not of their own making, for instance the EPL is an economic basket case and all teams are carrying unhealthy amounts of debt. However the board is full of businessmen and sometime 3-4 years ago a sober assessment should have been made that they were coming to a situation where they could barely service the debts, had no chance of financing a new stadium, and could not even provide funds to freshen the squad up-surely the basic job description for any director of a football club, regardless if the club is shopping at Harrods or Aldi.
Equally, the board must also be aware that the next 2-3 years is going to get a lot tougher; we have an ageing squad that club will need to move on and what sort of money will we get for a 36yo Cahill, Saha, or a 32 yo Hibbert, Osman etc. Therefore fresh investment will need to be found to go into the transfer market. It may be radical but when a business?s economic situation becomes untenable it is sold for a nominal fee, usually a £1 and the directors walk away with very little but their sanity and they can channel their energies elsewhere. It may be harsh but that?s capitalism for you.
For me the central questions are; is the club actually up for sale and more importantly what sort of price is the board looking for. If the club is up for sale (and it?s only an ?if?) it becoming obvious that the asking price is too high and they will have to revalue the price significantly downwards to get it off their hands. The board (I refuse to single out Kenwright for blame) appear to be suffering from a delusion that a lot of business people do when their businesses go tits up, namely a refusal to face up to the fact that all their hard work isn?t going to be rewarded in the manner that they believe it should be.
But their business model has failed for a variety of reasons some of them not of their own making, for instance the EPL is an economic basket case and all teams are carrying unhealthy amounts of debt. However the board is full of businessmen and sometime 3-4 years ago a sober assessment should have been made that they were coming to a situation where they could barely service the debts, had no chance of financing a new stadium, and could not even provide funds to freshen the squad up-surely the basic job description for any director of a football club, regardless if the club is shopping at Harrods or Aldi.
Equally, the board must also be aware that the next 2-3 years is going to get a lot tougher; we have an ageing squad that club will need to move on and what sort of money will we get for a 36yo Cahill, Saha, or a 32 yo Hibbert, Osman etc. Therefore fresh investment will need to be found to go into the transfer market. It may be radical but when a business?s economic situation becomes untenable it is sold for a nominal fee, usually a £1 and the directors walk away with very little but their sanity and they can channel their energies elsewhere. It may be harsh but that?s capitalism for you.
John Crawley
206 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:45:21
206 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:45:21
Kevin Hudson (163) You are changing your argument now. You stated quite clearly in your earlier post that "their credibility was damaged the moment they leaked the details of an apparently confidential meeting". Now you are arguing that the issue isn't the fact that the meeting was confidential, instead the issue is now that they allegedly recorded the meeting and were "publicising the minutes of the meeting."
You can't have it both ways either the meeting was confidential or it wasn't. It is clear from information subsequently released that the meeting was not meant to be confidential. With regard to your comments about Everton and legal action. The only conclusion I can draw from that is that they didn't have any legal basis to take such action. Therefore the points you made regarding recording of the meeting are just speculation.
You can't have it both ways either the meeting was confidential or it wasn't. It is clear from information subsequently released that the meeting was not meant to be confidential. With regard to your comments about Everton and legal action. The only conclusion I can draw from that is that they didn't have any legal basis to take such action. Therefore the points you made regarding recording of the meeting are just speculation.
Mick Fleming
207 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:30:31
207 Posted 08/01/2012 at 14:30:31
For those who disagree with the actions of the BU to date, what should we do? Some have suggested taking a more intelligent approach but fail to explain what. Some acknowledge the obvious failings and incompetence of the board but again fail to provide an explanation as to the best way to deal with this.
It's one thing disagreeing with a group of fans attempting to tackle the issue in a way they beleive wiil make a difference, and another thing crtiticising but offering no alternative. I can only draw the conclusion that some would prefer to put up and shut up, unless those against could include details of a suitable alternative of course.
I want change as I believe the future of our great club is in serious jeapordy. I am sick of lies and spin, I am sick of the football being played and the negative tactics adopted by our manager. I am sick of being treated with contempt by the club I love, always will, and have supported all of my life. I dont care what other clubs, supporters or media think I only care about Everton. For those reasons I say keep the pressure on boys because doing nothing gets us nowhere.
It's one thing disagreeing with a group of fans attempting to tackle the issue in a way they beleive wiil make a difference, and another thing crtiticising but offering no alternative. I can only draw the conclusion that some would prefer to put up and shut up, unless those against could include details of a suitable alternative of course.
I want change as I believe the future of our great club is in serious jeapordy. I am sick of lies and spin, I am sick of the football being played and the negative tactics adopted by our manager. I am sick of being treated with contempt by the club I love, always will, and have supported all of my life. I dont care what other clubs, supporters or media think I only care about Everton. For those reasons I say keep the pressure on boys because doing nothing gets us nowhere.
John Crawley
208 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:00:04
208 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:00:04
Gary Carter 166 - Again I repeat they did not leak details of a confidential meeting, it was agreed before hand that they would be giving a report of the meeting to supporters.
Kevin Hudson
209 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:07:20
209 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:07:20
Danny Broderick,
The meeting lasted THREE hours.
Either they have antonishing photographic memory retention, or they secretly taped the conversation. Again, as having agreed - in advance, that NO NOTES were to be taken during said meeting.
John Crawley,
I concede the point that they were free to report on the meeting, albeit certainly NOT publish the dialogue verbatim.
The meeting lasted THREE hours.
Either they have antonishing photographic memory retention, or they secretly taped the conversation. Again, as having agreed - in advance, that NO NOTES were to be taken during said meeting.
John Crawley,
I concede the point that they were free to report on the meeting, albeit certainly NOT publish the dialogue verbatim.
Eugene Ruane
210 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:09:19
210 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:09:19
Awaits Gary Carter's - "yes but..they leaked the details of a confidential etc blah"
Lee Chambers
211 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:12:40
211 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:12:40
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/everton-transfers.html
This proves how much money has been spent and recouped in transfers since the start of the Premier League.
I wonder where all of the money has gone?
This proves how much money has been spent and recouped in transfers since the start of the Premier League.
I wonder where all of the money has gone?
Stephen Leary
212 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:02:27
212 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:02:27
Paul, are you Bill Kenwright?
Eddie McBride
213 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:20:02
213 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:20:02
Both sides will argue that it was the other who broke the rules and nobody knows whos telling the truth (since that day my opinion on whos truthful and whos not has certainly changed) but I think all this takes us away from the main point. Which is are club is hurtling towards a great abyss, and we owe it to the younger generation to pull together and let Kenright know we care and wont be fobbed off with his lies and bullshit
Mark Riding
214 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:38:17
214 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:38:17
Eddie, your mention of the younger generation strikes a cord with me here.. Real life example of modern Everton now.. Xmas presents for my lads, an Everton home shirt.. what name do you get put on it ? We could realistically sell anyone.
Brian Waring
215 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:30:56
215 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:30:56
Roberto, I think the football world knew we never had a brass farthing, before BU even came onto the scene.
Kevin, if BU did use underhand tactics, then why didn't the club follow through with their threats of legal action?
Kevin, if BU did use underhand tactics, then why didn't the club follow through with their threats of legal action?
Neil Steele
216 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:41:56
216 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:41:56
Kevin, you need to get your facts right because you are talking complete nonsense. The meeting was NOT confidential and was always intended to be reported back to the fans. If that's not the case, why do you suggest Bill Kenwright stated at one point "are you getting this down?".
It's a lame excuse and I really don't know why you are peddling it when you obviously haven't got a clue.
It's a lame excuse and I really don't know why you are peddling it when you obviously haven't got a clue.
Stephen Kenny
217 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:28:34
217 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:28:34
Kevin,
I agree with quite a few of your points about the BU's manifesto or whatever it is. They should have a clearer goal. It looks to me that there were too many voices when the amalgamation of the various groups happened.
One thing I do find strange is the clubs insistence on NO NOTES and if I remember right they originally wanted the meeting to stay confidential. WHY???
IMO Bill thought he could play the genial host, give them the old Eddie Cavanagh stories and then fuck them off. He's a proven liar and has proven adept at manipulating a situation to his favour, they would have been fools not to tape it.
We need someone to push for change and I'm happy for the people doing this to make a few mistakes along the way as long as it helps achieve the outcome we need, and I think it is helping.
I agree with quite a few of your points about the BU's manifesto or whatever it is. They should have a clearer goal. It looks to me that there were too many voices when the amalgamation of the various groups happened.
One thing I do find strange is the clubs insistence on NO NOTES and if I remember right they originally wanted the meeting to stay confidential. WHY???
IMO Bill thought he could play the genial host, give them the old Eddie Cavanagh stories and then fuck them off. He's a proven liar and has proven adept at manipulating a situation to his favour, they would have been fools not to tape it.
We need someone to push for change and I'm happy for the people doing this to make a few mistakes along the way as long as it helps achieve the outcome we need, and I think it is helping.
Ian Hollo
218 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:49:39
218 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:49:39
Do all you Evertonians want BK to sell to some cockhead who strip us blind, then sell us ? or worse, go into administration & dock us points, which will guarantee we go down?
NO YOU DON'T. We need to stick with BK until he get's the right buyer. You all slate him now, and if he sold to someone like the Venkys, 2 years later, you'd all be slating him again for selling to a gang of money thieving foreign bastards.
Unless we get a Billionaire, there's no point selling at all in this financial climate.
There's only one piece of information I'd like BK to release, and that is "How Much is EFC for sale for?", and that is because I'd like to know if he's is trying to get more than they are worth...
Don't forget, and new buyer will need to cough up at least £350m for a stadium, as well as money for the manager.
Keep with BK until something special comes along, or we will be completely doomed.
NO YOU DON'T. We need to stick with BK until he get's the right buyer. You all slate him now, and if he sold to someone like the Venkys, 2 years later, you'd all be slating him again for selling to a gang of money thieving foreign bastards.
Unless we get a Billionaire, there's no point selling at all in this financial climate.
There's only one piece of information I'd like BK to release, and that is "How Much is EFC for sale for?", and that is because I'd like to know if he's is trying to get more than they are worth...
Don't forget, and new buyer will need to cough up at least £350m for a stadium, as well as money for the manager.
Keep with BK until something special comes along, or we will be completely doomed.
Mark Riding
219 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:46:50
219 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:46:50
Why couldn't he just give a straight interview and let his answers be published in the first place? Cloak and dagger shit is not needed.
I think the match-going fans have realised that we are bang in trouble, be it this season or next. If we went down, the club would fall through the leagues.
I think the match-going fans have realised that we are bang in trouble, be it this season or next. If we went down, the club would fall through the leagues.
Kevin Hudson
220 Posted 08/01/2012 at 16:02:45
220 Posted 08/01/2012 at 16:02:45
Neil Steele,
Were YOU present at the meeting..?
Kenwright agreed to answer questions regarding the parlous state of the club's affairs. He was fully aware that a report would be compiled & published by the BU.
He was also keen that they "got down," some of the practical difficulties we face.
He did NOT agree to a verbatim account, considered to be heavily skewed & inaccurate in the first place, to see the light of day.
Neither party came out of this well.
But apparently, you have more of a clue than me..
Were YOU present at the meeting..?
Kenwright agreed to answer questions regarding the parlous state of the club's affairs. He was fully aware that a report would be compiled & published by the BU.
He was also keen that they "got down," some of the practical difficulties we face.
He did NOT agree to a verbatim account, considered to be heavily skewed & inaccurate in the first place, to see the light of day.
Neither party came out of this well.
But apparently, you have more of a clue than me..
Gavin Ramejkis
221 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:56:09
221 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:56:09
There seems to be an awful lot of semantics crept into this thread including the whole taping the meeting, legal threats which never proceeded and confidentiality which equally could be shown as a nonsense as the whole purpose of the meeting was to cascade information to the fan base and BB was quoted as has been said "Are you writing all this down?" ? which in itself implies at least one of the attendees was clearly taking notes.
As for the ability to take notes in a 3-hour meeting, I've been in plenty of 2- to 3-hour meetings where I've taken pretty comprehensive minutes capturing pertinent quotes as highlights and actions.
There will always be pros and cons in any argument, it's human nature, as is the tendency to argue for a cause if you believe strongly enough in it. The arguments ramp up when the combatants see what they comprehend as lies and propoganda which has already been disproved. Saying something over and over doesn't make it true; having hard evidence tends to do that.
As for the ability to take notes in a 3-hour meeting, I've been in plenty of 2- to 3-hour meetings where I've taken pretty comprehensive minutes capturing pertinent quotes as highlights and actions.
There will always be pros and cons in any argument, it's human nature, as is the tendency to argue for a cause if you believe strongly enough in it. The arguments ramp up when the combatants see what they comprehend as lies and propoganda which has already been disproved. Saying something over and over doesn't make it true; having hard evidence tends to do that.
John Crawley
222 Posted 08/01/2012 at 16:03:38
222 Posted 08/01/2012 at 16:03:38
To me the most interesting thing about the meeting between the BU and Kenwright was this:- The ONLY question they couldn't ask him about was the price he wanted to sell the club. The ONLY question that would end the interview straight away - the price he wanted to sell the club. I think that says everything you really need to know.
Eddie McBride
223 Posted 08/01/2012 at 16:07:51
223 Posted 08/01/2012 at 16:07:51
Mark, I have put on their shirts the same name I have on mine ? LABONE. I only wish it was possible to ask what he thinks of this fiasco.
Gavin Ramejkis
224 Posted 08/01/2012 at 16:18:26
224 Posted 08/01/2012 at 16:18:26
Kevin if BB agreed to the meeting and agreed it could be minuted then what was he going to do next about agreeing the distribution from it? The only points agreed not to be shared by both parties was anything relating to personal details, contact addresses etc and nothing else. If anyone having a meeting along those lines expecting to have their minutes proof read and agreed to would be better to give it a wide berth as all they would get is a sanitised press release, we can already see those with their tedious non content.
Tom Hughes
225 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:51:25
225 Posted 08/01/2012 at 15:51:25
Criticising the BU when the club has been run into the ground is absolutely laughable. It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that people like these are helping to preserve our calamitous status quo.
Some people really need to have a word with themselves.... Rome is burning and all you're interested in is attacking those trying to find out why.... Are you serious? Are you Evertonians or just Kenwright fans?
I won't list the number of cock-ups and lies.... it's been done ad nauseum over several years and should be ingrained on every Evertonian's mind... But suffice to say that, as ever, the few BU detractors are completely oblivious to the facts.
The club is up shit creak and all you're interested in is whether or not a meeting was taped...... as I said, laughable! Get a grip before this lot take us down or into administration or both.
The BU need to keep asking the questions, we all do.... BK has been avoiding answering them for years. As soon as he lost the shareholders, the dictator changed the club's age-old constitution so that he wouldn't have to face those embarrasing questions anymore...
Nothing to hide?
Some people really need to have a word with themselves.... Rome is burning and all you're interested in is attacking those trying to find out why.... Are you serious? Are you Evertonians or just Kenwright fans?
I won't list the number of cock-ups and lies.... it's been done ad nauseum over several years and should be ingrained on every Evertonian's mind... But suffice to say that, as ever, the few BU detractors are completely oblivious to the facts.
The club is up shit creak and all you're interested in is whether or not a meeting was taped...... as I said, laughable! Get a grip before this lot take us down or into administration or both.
The BU need to keep asking the questions, we all do.... BK has been avoiding answering them for years. As soon as he lost the shareholders, the dictator changed the club's age-old constitution so that he wouldn't have to face those embarrasing questions anymore...
Nothing to hide?
John Crawley
226 Posted 08/01/2012 at 16:27:36
226 Posted 08/01/2012 at 16:27:36
Kevin 183 ? you say the report of the meeting between the BU and Kenwright was inaccurate. What exactly was inaccurate?
What struck me at the time was the club didn't give any details about the reported content of the meeting being inaccurate. They did however smear the report by getting Derek Hatton amongst others to say the meeting was confidential and shouldn't have been reported.
What struck me at the time was the club didn't give any details about the reported content of the meeting being inaccurate. They did however smear the report by getting Derek Hatton amongst others to say the meeting was confidential and shouldn't have been reported.
William Bromsgrove
227 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:05:06
227 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:05:06
Mark #178 have Neville or Cahill put on the shirts i'm sure you'll be safe with those name's.
Seamus Murphy
228 Posted 08/01/2012 at 16:43:00
228 Posted 08/01/2012 at 16:43:00
Kevin -148 - being aware of the gerrymandering that took place in Northern Ireland to stop Catholics/nationalists getting elected, I can only assume you don't know what the word means.
Dave Wilson
229 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:27:50
229 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:27:50
Kevin #173
You usually talk a lot of sense but thats utter bollocks mate.
If you were at a three hour meeting about something very close to your heart you would know everything that was said.
I cant have this "would need a photographic memory retention lark"
The Guys from BU already knew the questions they were going to ask, why would they not remember the answers ?
You usually talk a lot of sense but thats utter bollocks mate.
If you were at a three hour meeting about something very close to your heart you would know everything that was said.
I cant have this "would need a photographic memory retention lark"
The Guys from BU already knew the questions they were going to ask, why would they not remember the answers ?
Brian Waring
230 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:32:36
230 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:32:36
Its funny Kevin, because they way your going on, you would think you were at the meeting. You seem to be telling us what BK agreed to, or are you saying that BK never twists things to suit his agenda?
Also, as Gavin said, it seems the only thing that that they agreed to was matters that related to a personal nature.
Also, as Gavin said, it seems the only thing that that they agreed to was matters that related to a personal nature.
Kevin Hudson
231 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:17:11
231 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:17:11
Seamus,
"Gerrymander," is a political verb that originally comes from Masschussetts in the early-19th century.
How about I go with the phrase "corralling the national media," instead..? That suit you better..?
"Gerrymander," is a political verb that originally comes from Masschussetts in the early-19th century.
How about I go with the phrase "corralling the national media," instead..? That suit you better..?
Seamus Murphy
232 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:36:09
232 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:36:09
Kevin #173 - why is it so unbelievable to think that three lads with a pre determined list of questions wouldn't be able to remember the answers that were given when reading back over the questions?
Seamus Murphy
233 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:48:00
233 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:48:00
Kevin 195 - Gerrymandering is/was the practice of dividing a state/Provence etc. into voting districts to gain an advantage.
Corralling the media - exactly what the PR machine at EFC does if you weren't too blind to see it.
Corralling the media - exactly what the PR machine at EFC does if you weren't too blind to see it.
Andrew Mackenzie
235 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:52:52
235 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:52:52
Gary - my comment was so tongue in cheek I was licking my ear as I wrote it...
...hence my stated apology for the level of sarcasm. It was that or scream at some deluded posts (Kevin) that either everything is fine in the garden of Everton, or the classic tired argument that the BU have some how brought the club to its current demise, or the extreme belief that somehow those lads asking pertinent questions were is some way insulting our great leader.
...hence my stated apology for the level of sarcasm. It was that or scream at some deluded posts (Kevin) that either everything is fine in the garden of Everton, or the classic tired argument that the BU have some how brought the club to its current demise, or the extreme belief that somehow those lads asking pertinent questions were is some way insulting our great leader.
Tony Doran
236 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:59:25
236 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:59:25
Well done to the lads for keeping it clean, don't give them any excuse to call us thugs. the question that got me is about the ground losing it's safety license. Thiis was thrown in by kenwright in his time of desperation and was just invented. Feel a bit sad for BK but he must sort this out.
Tony McNulty
237 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:50:39
237 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:50:39
Ian Hollo (182)
In selling Everton, BK, as many on here keep reminding us, is only one of a number of shareholders. This undoubtedly complicates matters.
But when he does finally sell, he will presumably be seeking to balance the best deal for the future of club, and the best deal for himself. He won?t achieve the latter by naming his price in advance. I am afraid you are waiting for Godot.
In selling Everton, BK, as many on here keep reminding us, is only one of a number of shareholders. This undoubtedly complicates matters.
But when he does finally sell, he will presumably be seeking to balance the best deal for the future of club, and the best deal for himself. He won?t achieve the latter by naming his price in advance. I am afraid you are waiting for Godot.
Kevin Hudson
238 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:43:15
238 Posted 08/01/2012 at 17:43:15
Dave Wilson,
Are you suggesting the BU were able to quote, word-for-word, ALL the answers Kenwright gave them ? in a THREE AND A HALF HOUR meeting..?
Without some kind of assistance?
Did they hire Dustin Hoffman?s ?Rain man,? to help them out..?
Given that they AGREED before the meeting that no notes were to be taken?
Meanwhile, I have gone on record stating that for economic, (and one or two other) reasons, I believe Kenwright should step-aside, handing control to somebody better-equipped to handle a 21st Century football club playing at the top level.
For all his undoubted flaws, failed-promises & purported lies, Kenwright has presided over the most consistent league returns in a generation, seen the club re-enter Europe, reach the League Cup Semi & FA Cup Final?s, and has broken the club?s transfer record on a number of occasions, whilst trying to keep a roof over our proverbial heads.
He is definitely not immune to scrutiny.
But, for "utter bollocks," you?re asking me to trust a motley crew that reneged on an agreement, publicly embarrassed the club, utilised guerrilla tactics to harangue, film and publish their prank, who amid the pie-in-the-sky rhetoric, were led-off by a creepy-looking clown carrying a fuckin? cake.....
Are you suggesting the BU were able to quote, word-for-word, ALL the answers Kenwright gave them ? in a THREE AND A HALF HOUR meeting..?
Without some kind of assistance?
Did they hire Dustin Hoffman?s ?Rain man,? to help them out..?
Given that they AGREED before the meeting that no notes were to be taken?
Meanwhile, I have gone on record stating that for economic, (and one or two other) reasons, I believe Kenwright should step-aside, handing control to somebody better-equipped to handle a 21st Century football club playing at the top level.
For all his undoubted flaws, failed-promises & purported lies, Kenwright has presided over the most consistent league returns in a generation, seen the club re-enter Europe, reach the League Cup Semi & FA Cup Final?s, and has broken the club?s transfer record on a number of occasions, whilst trying to keep a roof over our proverbial heads.
He is definitely not immune to scrutiny.
But, for "utter bollocks," you?re asking me to trust a motley crew that reneged on an agreement, publicly embarrassed the club, utilised guerrilla tactics to harangue, film and publish their prank, who amid the pie-in-the-sky rhetoric, were led-off by a creepy-looking clown carrying a fuckin? cake.....
Liam Appleby
239 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:26:35
239 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:26:35
After watching that video, its nice to see that the Blue Union has at least grown in numbers...
#tinpotgroup
#tinpotgroup
Kevin Hudson
240 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:22:07
240 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:22:07
Andrew Mackenzie,
This is sloppy crap:
"..some deluded posts (Kevin) that either everything is fine in the garden of everton, or the classic tired argument that the BU have some how brought the club to its current demise." (You: Post 198).
For the SECOND time...let me REMIND you that in no fewer that FOUR posts ( 55, 67, 73 & 201,) I call for protest inside Goddison & the removal of Bill Kenwright as Chairman.
I simply disagree with some of the tactics employed by the Blue Union...alright?
This is sloppy crap:
"..some deluded posts (Kevin) that either everything is fine in the garden of everton, or the classic tired argument that the BU have some how brought the club to its current demise." (You: Post 198).
For the SECOND time...let me REMIND you that in no fewer that FOUR posts ( 55, 67, 73 & 201,) I call for protest inside Goddison & the removal of Bill Kenwright as Chairman.
I simply disagree with some of the tactics employed by the Blue Union...alright?
Matt Traynor
241 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:28:54
241 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:28:54
Ian (182), your "cockhead" scenario of asset stripping appears to have come to pass. Every asset has been sold off, and the majority shareholders are looking for a buyer.
So what, exactly, is your point?
The mis-management of the club has got it into this state. The BU have not betrayed anything - every agent in the game knows Everton are skint, and any potential buyer who got past the £150m opening gambit to commence due diligence would no doubt realise that EFC is a distressed asset.
On some levels, I genuinely feel for BK. I don't know what he expected when he took over, but I do personally think he wanted to oversee a new ground, and then sell to a more suitable party as it became apparent that the EPL is in financial La La land. I believe he missed the one true great opportunity (KD), and in his desperation to hang on, has probably engaged the "advice" of people with self-interest as their motive.
Unfortunately I would worry more if a buyer was willing to pay the £150m, but it's safe to say that we are stuck with him, the financial chasm will get worse, and we will inexorably be drawn closer to either relegation/administration/foreclosure, at which point a buyer will emerge.
Sadly, "Great timing" is not a phrase one associates with BK.
So what, exactly, is your point?
The mis-management of the club has got it into this state. The BU have not betrayed anything - every agent in the game knows Everton are skint, and any potential buyer who got past the £150m opening gambit to commence due diligence would no doubt realise that EFC is a distressed asset.
On some levels, I genuinely feel for BK. I don't know what he expected when he took over, but I do personally think he wanted to oversee a new ground, and then sell to a more suitable party as it became apparent that the EPL is in financial La La land. I believe he missed the one true great opportunity (KD), and in his desperation to hang on, has probably engaged the "advice" of people with self-interest as their motive.
Unfortunately I would worry more if a buyer was willing to pay the £150m, but it's safe to say that we are stuck with him, the financial chasm will get worse, and we will inexorably be drawn closer to either relegation/administration/foreclosure, at which point a buyer will emerge.
Sadly, "Great timing" is not a phrase one associates with BK.
Kevin Hudson
242 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:34:06
242 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:34:06
Seamus, (at Dictionary Corner)
I'm fully aware of both the etymological definition of said phrase, and of the spin machine operating at Goodison, but thanks for the (un-asked for) history lesson on Northern Ireland..
I'm fully aware of both the etymological definition of said phrase, and of the spin machine operating at Goodison, but thanks for the (un-asked for) history lesson on Northern Ireland..
Robbie Muldoon
243 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:36:44
243 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:36:44
Paul Niklas doesn't half come across as Bill Kenwright himself!
Danny Broderick
244 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:38:45
244 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:38:45
Kevin,
There was no tape. As others have said,they were allowed to take notes. At one point,Kenwright even said "write this down boys." with the notes ad a pre-prepared list of questions,it can't have been too difficult producing the transcript. Especially when they took 5 days to make sure they had got it right.
Regardless of this,what is more important than the tape/no tape argument is that no-one from the club has ever denied the content. That says more than any thousand word transcript ever could. The leaked e-mails have only served to reinforce the message that our board haven't got a clue,and were banking on favours from the media to stop the fans from knowing the truth.
As for the BU being responsible for telling the world we are skint,I seem to remember Spurs putting in a bid of £250,000 for our captain last year...long before the BU got going. Did Spurs know something the rest of the world didn't,or were they trying it on?
I remember us putting in a bid for Robbie Savage years ago and being laughed out of town. We were offering something like £500,000 up front with the rest in installments. And he was valued at £3 million at the time.
I'm afraid you didn't have to be a genius these last 10 years to work out Everton are skint. Moyes has spent in ten years what Dalglish has spent in one year. That says it all.
There was no tape. As others have said,they were allowed to take notes. At one point,Kenwright even said "write this down boys." with the notes ad a pre-prepared list of questions,it can't have been too difficult producing the transcript. Especially when they took 5 days to make sure they had got it right.
Regardless of this,what is more important than the tape/no tape argument is that no-one from the club has ever denied the content. That says more than any thousand word transcript ever could. The leaked e-mails have only served to reinforce the message that our board haven't got a clue,and were banking on favours from the media to stop the fans from knowing the truth.
As for the BU being responsible for telling the world we are skint,I seem to remember Spurs putting in a bid of £250,000 for our captain last year...long before the BU got going. Did Spurs know something the rest of the world didn't,or were they trying it on?
I remember us putting in a bid for Robbie Savage years ago and being laughed out of town. We were offering something like £500,000 up front with the rest in installments. And he was valued at £3 million at the time.
I'm afraid you didn't have to be a genius these last 10 years to work out Everton are skint. Moyes has spent in ten years what Dalglish has spent in one year. That says it all.
Ste Traverse
245 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:50:52
245 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:50:52
It seems some 'supporters' are more interested in defending Bill Kenwright than wanting what's best for this club.
Pathetic.
Pathetic.
Jay Harris
246 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:20:22
246 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:20:22
There are some things that cannot be denied.
Is Bill Kenwright a proven liar = Yes.
Has anybody from the Blue Union proved to be telling lies = No.
Has anybody in the history of the football league done a more catastrophic job than Kenwright...... Only Ridsdale at Leeds springs to mind.
Conclusion:
1. Believe the Blue Union before you believe Bill.
2. Anybody is better than Kenwright and "friends" to manage our club.
If any supporter is not seriously concerned about what is going on at the club they must be living on another planet.
Is Bill Kenwright a proven liar = Yes.
Has anybody from the Blue Union proved to be telling lies = No.
Has anybody in the history of the football league done a more catastrophic job than Kenwright...... Only Ridsdale at Leeds springs to mind.
Conclusion:
1. Believe the Blue Union before you believe Bill.
2. Anybody is better than Kenwright and "friends" to manage our club.
If any supporter is not seriously concerned about what is going on at the club they must be living on another planet.
Dean Adams
247 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:59:31
247 Posted 08/01/2012 at 18:59:31
Jay Harris
It is that kind of analogy and statement (post 209) that causes me concern. I may agree with some of what you feel but we need to be seen as credible. Making comparisons between BK who is famous and some well meaning lads from the BU just doesn't wash.
As for suggesting BK has done the most catastophic job and then saying well other than Ridsdale is not helpful either.
I would love to see us play with panache, be one of if not the best in Europe again but it aint going to happen.
It is that kind of analogy and statement (post 209) that causes me concern. I may agree with some of what you feel but we need to be seen as credible. Making comparisons between BK who is famous and some well meaning lads from the BU just doesn't wash.
As for suggesting BK has done the most catastophic job and then saying well other than Ridsdale is not helpful either.
I would love to see us play with panache, be one of if not the best in Europe again but it aint going to happen.
Brian Harrison
248 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:08:23
248 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:08:23
The BU has said that one of their main aims is for BK to stand down and an intrim board be appointed.
So can someone from the BU tell me who appoints the new members of the intrim board. I would imagine that the present board members would not approve of another group with no financial involvement in the club running its affairs. I would imagine the only way an intrim board could be appointed without the major shareholders approval, would be if they failed to make the agreed loan payments to their main creditor. Similar to what happened at Liverpool when the RBS appointed Broughton to run the club as chairman, which also included finding a buyer.
So until a time arrives were Evertons present board fail to keep up its loan repayments, there is absolutely no chance of an intrim board being appointed.
So can someone from the BU tell me who appoints the new members of the intrim board. I would imagine that the present board members would not approve of another group with no financial involvement in the club running its affairs. I would imagine the only way an intrim board could be appointed without the major shareholders approval, would be if they failed to make the agreed loan payments to their main creditor. Similar to what happened at Liverpool when the RBS appointed Broughton to run the club as chairman, which also included finding a buyer.
So until a time arrives were Evertons present board fail to keep up its loan repayments, there is absolutely no chance of an intrim board being appointed.
Jamie Carroll
249 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:20:20
249 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:20:20
Matt Traynor 204: Great point, a buyer WILL probably emerge when the club is on its knees (ie. close to relegation/relegated!) Then and only then will the Evertonians en masse RISE from their slumber...
Danny Broderick
250 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:32:52
250 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:32:52
Brian,
The BU only want an interim body to take over the sale of the club - a professional like Keith Harris. They have stated they want the likes of Elstone etc to focus on the day-to-day running of the club.
Either way,the club won't allow this so we are stuck with them like you say...
The BU only want an interim body to take over the sale of the club - a professional like Keith Harris. They have stated they want the likes of Elstone etc to focus on the day-to-day running of the club.
Either way,the club won't allow this so we are stuck with them like you say...
Peter Fearon
251 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:22:41
251 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:22:41
I disagree with the BU policy. I happen to think they will neither hasten a sale nor encourage a buyer. I know some people posting on this site put that view on the same level as child molesting. However, the lads have every right to shout their view to Bill Kenwright in the peaceful non-threatening way they did. Kenwright was really responding, it seems to me, to the level of personal attacks and charges of almost criminal irresponsibility that have been leveled elsewhere. Also, he was in a lose-lose situation. If he had said nothing, he would have been pilloried for ignoring fans' legitimate grievances. If he addresses them in the way he did he appears cranky and foolish; if he engages them in a real conversation and says, jut for example, that the club is trying hard to find an investor but there are few potential takers he is called a liar. Frankly, I still think fans would be better off directing their anger at the manager over the way the team plays. If we were playing entertaining attacking football and sweeping aside teams like Bolton and Tamwoth - as we should - the canards about the depth of the financial crisis at the club would have less traction.
Colin Wainwright
252 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:28:57
252 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:28:57
Kevin Hudson. Moral guardian. You talk some shite. Its common knowledge that Kenwright knew there was going to be a record of that meeting. Stop spouting the party line and OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES.
Matt Traynor
253 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:49:39
253 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:49:39
Danny (#209), I don't speak for BU, but I imagine the last thing they'd want is someone like Keith Harris in charge. Harris is one of a number of external agents tasked by BK to find a buyer. Harris would earn a cut from the purchase, as would any agent. BK quite rightly elected not to appoint an exclusive agent to tout the club.
Keith Harris certainly polarises opinion within football.
The board, by appointing several agents to bring prospective buyers forward, would then be tasked with sorting the wheat from the chaff, and selecting the best buyers for Everton Football Club. I think there are some who doubt whether they will in fact do that, but instead go for the greatest return for the individuals.
Keith Harris certainly polarises opinion within football.
The board, by appointing several agents to bring prospective buyers forward, would then be tasked with sorting the wheat from the chaff, and selecting the best buyers for Everton Football Club. I think there are some who doubt whether they will in fact do that, but instead go for the greatest return for the individuals.
Mark Riding
254 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:53:00
254 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:53:00
How much is it for sale for Bill ??
Not too hard a question for a man who is selling something surely ?
Not too hard a question for a man who is selling something surely ?
Jamie Carroll
255 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:48:49
255 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:48:49
Peter, looking at the way the team plays from David Moyes's point of view. First and foremost he MUST keep Everton up and reach 40 points asap... then maybe a more relaxed approach with tactics /style of play can be looked at. (Remember Everton 2 Man Ttd 4 a few seasons back? Great game; no points.)
What would happen if a gung-ho approach was the way forward? David Moyes would be jeopardising Everton's status in the EPL... batton down the hatches if you like.
What would happen if a gung-ho approach was the way forward? David Moyes would be jeopardising Everton's status in the EPL... batton down the hatches if you like.
Colin Wainwright
256 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:56:26
256 Posted 08/01/2012 at 19:56:26
Exactly Mark. Why wont he give an answer?
Matt Traynor
257 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:00:09
257 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:00:09
Peter (#210), isn't that the rub though? For years, Moyes's relative over-achievement on the pitch has been a heat shield for the real problems at the club. Many fans had been questioning how many times he could work wonders on a shoestring, and it was inevitable that other teams would eventually catch up etc.
I think the DK episode, so divisive amongst the fanbase, turned the spotlight firmly onto the board.
I think the DK episode, so divisive amongst the fanbase, turned the spotlight firmly onto the board.
Colin Wainwright
258 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:11:29
258 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:11:29
You're right Matt. I kinda knew that a run of piss poor results would end up with Moyes taking the flak, and Bill getting away with it. Whatever DMs faults, there is a much bigger problem at the club, and its that grey haired knobhead with his hands on the pursestrings.
Kevin Hudson
259 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:03:45
259 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:03:45
Colin,
"OPEN my FUCKING EYES.."?
To a mish-mash group with ZERO footballing, or business credentials wishing to involve themselves with the running of a multi-million pound company..?
Whilst moonlighting in the fight against Sectarianism, fostering some Hippy Utopia, and setting themselves up as a grandiose-sounding Fans Parliament..?
Yeah..alright...
Tell you what, I'll grab a BlackBerry, round-up 8 shouty Scallies, burst-in to Waitrose insisting we speak to the CEO, and demand to know where he plans to take his company, before imploring him to let us get involved, shall I..?
"OPEN my FUCKING EYES.."?
To a mish-mash group with ZERO footballing, or business credentials wishing to involve themselves with the running of a multi-million pound company..?
Whilst moonlighting in the fight against Sectarianism, fostering some Hippy Utopia, and setting themselves up as a grandiose-sounding Fans Parliament..?
Yeah..alright...
Tell you what, I'll grab a BlackBerry, round-up 8 shouty Scallies, burst-in to Waitrose insisting we speak to the CEO, and demand to know where he plans to take his company, before imploring him to let us get involved, shall I..?
John Keating
260 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:21:44
260 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:21:44
Like Kenwright or hate him how can anyone condone the statement he made that the BU had betrayed the club ??
How betrayed the club ??
Surely the years of mismanagent and lies by him and his cronies if a far bigger betrayal than a group of lads trying to get some truths and answers by whatever means.
How betrayed the club ??
Surely the years of mismanagent and lies by him and his cronies if a far bigger betrayal than a group of lads trying to get some truths and answers by whatever means.
Mark Riding
261 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:25:08
261 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:25:08
Colin.. I will tell you why, and before you kick off, its my opinion..
His answer would be £100m - £130m.. Then he would get a bid.
His 'advisors' would then check out the buyer ( due dilagence ) and they may find that the said bidder may well be capable of paying more, and then Bill would get greedy, take the piss and ask for £150m
His answer would be £100m - £130m.. Then he would get a bid.
His 'advisors' would then check out the buyer ( due dilagence ) and they may find that the said bidder may well be capable of paying more, and then Bill would get greedy, take the piss and ask for £150m
Colin Wainwright
262 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:27:41
262 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:27:41
Well at least you'd be doing something, Kevin. A mish-mash group with zero footballing or business credentials, sounds like our current board, do you not think?
As I said earlier, and as post 217 testifies, you're talking shite.
As I said earlier, and as post 217 testifies, you're talking shite.
Brian Denton
263 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:27:33
263 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:27:33
Kevin (#217) Waitrose/Everton (or any other football club for that matter) is a false comparison. Nobody loves Waitrose. They may do their shopping there, they may like its ciabatta and avocados, but they'll never queue up all night for a ticket to watch it v Asda or Sainsburys. Football is not like patronising a business. Or perhaps you think it is? If so, can you explain why you think the comparison is a proper one?
Colin Wainwright
264 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:38:13
264 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:38:13
Not going to kick off Mark. Thanks for your post man.
Brian Denton
265 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:39:09
265 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:39:09
Colin, not sure if the 'Fuck sake' was directed at me or the website! You will see your post (now numbered 219) says:
"As i said earlier and as post 219 testifies, you're talking shite."
Presumably when you wrote that there was a post 219 which you were responding to.....
"As i said earlier and as post 219 testifies, you're talking shite."
Presumably when you wrote that there was a post 219 which you were responding to.....
Brian Denton
266 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:42:09
266 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:42:09
I think something funny happens to the numbering of posts, when some are pulled or a few are received within a short space of time.
Mark Riding
267 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:38:58
267 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:38:58
Brian Denton, comparisons maybe, but if a manager of as you say 'Waitrose' was not delivering positive figures/results, it would be 3 months tops before he was moved on. He would get pressure for not reducing 'waste / out of date' products and selling them on.
Foot-fall is the amount of customers that come through your door... if that de-creased then, yet again, a manager would be asked questions.
I realise you are capable, unlike some, of grasping these comparisons...
Foot-fall is the amount of customers that come through your door... if that de-creased then, yet again, a manager would be asked questions.
I realise you are capable, unlike some, of grasping these comparisons...
Colin Wainwright
268 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:46:05
268 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:46:05
Sorry Brian. It was not directed at you mate. Post numbers changed.
Chris Sudall
269 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:31:49
269 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:31:49
I can actually sympathise with Bill here. Didn't the Blue Union trick him and then release audio of an interview which revealed we needed to sell players? Didn't that alert the vultures and ultimately lead to the loss of Arteta?
I would like to see us with more money but it feels a bit like a witch hunt to me.
I would like to see us with more money but it feels a bit like a witch hunt to me.
Colin Wainwright
270 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:05:02
270 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:05:02
Chris. No they didn't.
Peter Fearon
271 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:50:56
271 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:50:56
Kevin Hudson: You are right. The fallacy is that the club is "ours". It's only ours in the sense that we choose to have an affinity for its past present and future.
Try walking into any business you patronize with a half a per cent of the clientele marching behind you and demand they appoint a third party to sell their business at an artificially low price to a buyer who promises to put £150 - 200 Million in reinvestment money in escrow for an indefinite period and they'll call the men in white coats.
Protest is fine. Big picture policy is fine. But we should keep the protest in the Real World zone. What do we all really want? A club that is financially sound with a team that plays attacking entertaining winning football. That's what we should be demanding, and protesting for ? not micro-managing the sale of the club to a fantasy billionaire stupid enough to put that kind of liquidity in escrow.
Try walking into any business you patronize with a half a per cent of the clientele marching behind you and demand they appoint a third party to sell their business at an artificially low price to a buyer who promises to put £150 - 200 Million in reinvestment money in escrow for an indefinite period and they'll call the men in white coats.
Protest is fine. Big picture policy is fine. But we should keep the protest in the Real World zone. What do we all really want? A club that is financially sound with a team that plays attacking entertaining winning football. That's what we should be demanding, and protesting for ? not micro-managing the sale of the club to a fantasy billionaire stupid enough to put that kind of liquidity in escrow.
Michael Kenrick
272 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:04:05
272 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:04:05
Chris Sudall, an astounding example of the nonsense that gets absorbed into the common psyche...
There was NEVER any audio released. Where on earth did you get that from? And therefor nothing that could "alert the vultures" as you weirdly put it.
Do you seriously believe the BU precipitated the sale of Arteta to Arsenal? And not a combination of (a) Arsenal wanting the player; (b) the player wanting to leave (as he had done for over a year); and (c) Moyes having to accept he had to let him go; but (d) not before the requisite transfer request had been publicly produced (to ally the Club of any and all wrongdoing).
There was NEVER any audio released. Where on earth did you get that from? And therefor nothing that could "alert the vultures" as you weirdly put it.
Do you seriously believe the BU precipitated the sale of Arteta to Arsenal? And not a combination of (a) Arsenal wanting the player; (b) the player wanting to leave (as he had done for over a year); and (c) Moyes having to accept he had to let him go; but (d) not before the requisite transfer request had been publicly produced (to ally the Club of any and all wrongdoing).
Eddie McBride
273 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:04:58
273 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:04:58
Chris, if you read the rest of the posts instead of the last dozen, you will realise the board left a trail of clues Forrest Gump could've followed to discover we were skint ? without the help of BU.
Dave Wilson
274 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:06:27
274 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:06:27
Kevin #198
Yes, that's exactly what I`m saying. These guys had waited a long time to ask the questions all Evertonians wanted asked.
Are you seriously suggesting they wouldn't have very definite recollection of the answers?
Yes, that's exactly what I`m saying. These guys had waited a long time to ask the questions all Evertonians wanted asked.
Are you seriously suggesting they wouldn't have very definite recollection of the answers?
Peter Laing
275 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:12:39
275 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:12:39
Kevin Hudson nullified his argument with his comparisson of Waitrose, enough said.
Liam Appleby
276 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:58:14
276 Posted 08/01/2012 at 20:58:14
I don't think anyone really knows what is going on, whether pro-Kenwright or anti-Kenwright.
Both sides want the best for the club: People who back Kenwright will argue that they would rather he sold the club to suitable buyers, rather than a group similar to Venkys... so think it would be sensible for us be patient. People who are anti-Kenwright will point to his failings of running the club, so will want change sooner rather than later.
I think both parties can agree... change is what is needed. It's laughable the fact that people on here think they know what is going on behind the scenes (both sides). Neither side have the first idea of running a football club.
It's getting rather tedious all this debating, it's the same on here everyday. Rightly or wrongly both sides have a right to an opinion on which way they think the club should go or be taken. People who are pro-Kenwright should not be subjected to..."you don't care about the club if you back BK"... it's ridiculous. And I guess the same can be said for the people who oppose the BU. (I've been guilty of that.)
Both sides want the best for the club: People who back Kenwright will argue that they would rather he sold the club to suitable buyers, rather than a group similar to Venkys... so think it would be sensible for us be patient. People who are anti-Kenwright will point to his failings of running the club, so will want change sooner rather than later.
I think both parties can agree... change is what is needed. It's laughable the fact that people on here think they know what is going on behind the scenes (both sides). Neither side have the first idea of running a football club.
It's getting rather tedious all this debating, it's the same on here everyday. Rightly or wrongly both sides have a right to an opinion on which way they think the club should go or be taken. People who are pro-Kenwright should not be subjected to..."you don't care about the club if you back BK"... it's ridiculous. And I guess the same can be said for the people who oppose the BU. (I've been guilty of that.)
Michael Kenrick
277 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:17:56
277 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:17:56
Liam,
The glaring point you seem to be missing is that, pre-BU, few knew what was going on...
But, after the incredible interview BU reps obtained with BK, it became obvious (at least to those who opened their eyes) what is going on regarding Kenwright's running of the club. In his own bizarre and befuddled way, he made it only too clear what was going on.
The glaring point you seem to be missing is that, pre-BU, few knew what was going on...
But, after the incredible interview BU reps obtained with BK, it became obvious (at least to those who opened their eyes) what is going on regarding Kenwright's running of the club. In his own bizarre and befuddled way, he made it only too clear what was going on.
Eddie McBride
278 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:15:26
278 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:15:26
After nearly 250 posts written with passion and thought on a subject close to the hearts of all of us, Liam Appleby decides were all a bunch of idiots, so let us all follow the master and do fuck all. Me thinks you really support Billy Bullshit.
Peter Bourke
279 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:24:58
279 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:24:58
I have to agree with Liam's overall assesment. I think we all agree (including the management at EFC) the current situation is unacceptable but it is not so easy to fix.
Good on the Blue Union for trying everything within their power to have the problems addressed, but I don't think a simple "If you Love, It let it Go" is possible. Just how is BK supposed to "Let it go"?
Good on the Blue Union for trying everything within their power to have the problems addressed, but I don't think a simple "If you Love, It let it Go" is possible. Just how is BK supposed to "Let it go"?
Liam Appleby
280 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:27:31
280 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:27:31
Its not a case of who I support. Its clearly apparent that fans are split on the BK issue.
Colin Wainwright
281 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:23:01
281 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:23:01
Exactly Michael. The BU only wanted to highlight, to the wider world, what every sane Evertonian knew was happening. To change the press attitude that Bill was the best chairman any club could hope for. That he was the last bastion of old-fashioned club ownership and a beacon for the Sky ravaged game, and to show him up as the lying charlatan we now know him to be.
Well done, the Blue Union.
Well done, the Blue Union.
Andy Corrie
282 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:28:39
282 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:28:39
Well done lads, impressed with the professional approach to questioning.
BK is such an arse clown.
BK is such an arse clown.
Michael Kenrick
283 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:31:48
283 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:31:48
Peter Bourke: Just how is BK supposed to "Let it go"?
By selling the club for a reasonable price, that would have to be well below the rumoured £150M ? and without unreasonable pre-conditions that may also be acting as a barrier to a sale of the club to one of the many "interested parties" that don't really exist because of the "financial climate".
And they're not telling us lies? Of course they're not.
By selling the club for a reasonable price, that would have to be well below the rumoured £150M ? and without unreasonable pre-conditions that may also be acting as a barrier to a sale of the club to one of the many "interested parties" that don't really exist because of the "financial climate".
And they're not telling us lies? Of course they're not.
Liam Appleby
284 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:39:02
284 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:39:02
MK - " below the rumoured £150M ? and without unreasonable pre-conditions that may also be acting as a barrier to a sale of the club"
"rumoured" and "may"
Case in point.
"rumoured" and "may"
Case in point.
Eddie McBride
285 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:33:21
285 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:33:21
Sorry Liam nothing personel I just find it beyond comprehension that you are asking for patience. How long do you suggest we give the lovable old rogue? I quite understand that 12 years seems inadequate when your goal is to completely destroy 140 years of history...
Andy Riley
286 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:30:51
286 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:30:51
I just wish someone at the club would engage with the fans and let us know what sort of price is being sought for the club. Then we could all make a reasonable judgement as to whether the club is genuinely for sale at a realistic price.
Knowing what True Blue Holdings paid to buy out Peter Johnson (which is publicly available information), most supporters have some feeling of what would be a fair price now if Bill Kenwright is a true supporter. I would not begrudge him and his associates recouping their original investment and turning a modest profit.
I, for one, was genuinely elated when BK took over and thought things would improve under his direction. I remember the unity in that first game the 5-0 home win on Boxing Day against Sunderland and it is sad seeing the divisions now apparent.
The current stagnation cannot continue and there must be some honest communication from the board to the supporters.
Knowing what True Blue Holdings paid to buy out Peter Johnson (which is publicly available information), most supporters have some feeling of what would be a fair price now if Bill Kenwright is a true supporter. I would not begrudge him and his associates recouping their original investment and turning a modest profit.
I, for one, was genuinely elated when BK took over and thought things would improve under his direction. I remember the unity in that first game the 5-0 home win on Boxing Day against Sunderland and it is sad seeing the divisions now apparent.
The current stagnation cannot continue and there must be some honest communication from the board to the supporters.
Michael Kenrick
287 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:47:49
287 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:47:49
Andy, You're right, that would be good. I was vainly (naively) hoping the departure of Ian Ross might herald a new era of openness, where Elstone at least could be more honest with the fans, but the culture revealed in those leaked e.mails (the real Everton Way?!) means that nothing will change ? at least until there is a change of regime.
Thomas Williams
288 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:23:57
288 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:23:57
To the people who defend Kenwright, please explain to everyone why he will not answer these questions.
1. How much is the club up for sale for?
2. What is the near £24M in other operating costs spent on?
3. What is the discrepancy/not reporting/delaying/lack of clarity/not forwarding documents which the accountant stated in the latest accounts
4. Where has Arteta, Yakabu, Pienaar, Neill, Beckford, Vaughan and Yobo money gone?
5. Where has all the money saved on wages of the above plus what appears like half the reserve and youth sides gone?
6. In the accounts it states EFC spent £82M over the last 4 years on players, how?
If he had nothing to hide why does he not answer these questions?
My opinion and I have said it for the last 8 years is BK is a stooge, and subsequent events haven't meant I have had to retract that statement, on the contrary he has only reinforced that opinion.
1. How much is the club up for sale for?
2. What is the near £24M in other operating costs spent on?
3. What is the discrepancy/not reporting/delaying/lack of clarity/not forwarding documents which the accountant stated in the latest accounts
4. Where has Arteta, Yakabu, Pienaar, Neill, Beckford, Vaughan and Yobo money gone?
5. Where has all the money saved on wages of the above plus what appears like half the reserve and youth sides gone?
6. In the accounts it states EFC spent £82M over the last 4 years on players, how?
If he had nothing to hide why does he not answer these questions?
My opinion and I have said it for the last 8 years is BK is a stooge, and subsequent events haven't meant I have had to retract that statement, on the contrary he has only reinforced that opinion.
Chris Sudall
289 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:43:50
289 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:43:50
OK. I may be the 'common psyche', apologies for that, and I don't read everything in detail.
I can only go on what I gained from reading between the lines, and it seemed to me that he was tricked a bit.
I just wish it had all happened after deadline day. It did feel like the whole messy affair left us in a weaker bargaining position.
I'm not sure we'll ever know the whole truth.
All I can say is I will keep on following the Blues. Even if we are bobbins right now.
I can only go on what I gained from reading between the lines, and it seemed to me that he was tricked a bit.
I just wish it had all happened after deadline day. It did feel like the whole messy affair left us in a weaker bargaining position.
I'm not sure we'll ever know the whole truth.
All I can say is I will keep on following the Blues. Even if we are bobbins right now.
Peter Laing
290 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:55:25
290 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:55:25
Interesting that an article in Saturday's Liverpool Echo highlighted that fans are staying away in their droves or voting with their feet as been discussed on these pages on numerous posts over the months.
Colin Wainwright
291 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:57:13
291 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:57:13
'rumoured' and 'may'. Why doesn't the 'best salesman everton could wish for' (tm) just answer a simple question and put an end to the speculation.
Neil Steele
292 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:02:18
292 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:02:18
Liam @ 244, Keith Harris, who works on behalf of Kenwright )confirmed by Kenwright), has confirmed the price at circa £150-160m. It's a fact, here is the video evidence.. http://youtu.be/qukb3xY7Feo
Kevin Hudson
293 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:43:18
293 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:43:18
Peter Laing,
Please expand upon exactly how my argument is "nullified," due to the Waitrose reference
Waitrose is a multi-million pound business, as is Everton.
Are you seriously suggesting that a disparate lobby-group without proven acumen in the field, is to be universally acknowledged WITHOUT QUESTION of their credentials, as THE ANSWWER...purely via the premise they happen to be "emotionally-invested," in the cause?
Colin,
Re: "Talking shite."
Please list for (all of us) what qualifications the Blue Union has pertaining to the economics of Premiership football, their expertise in liasing with potential International investors, or their profound knowledge of new stadia development / construction.
Please also enlighten me as to their track record, or success, in combatting Sectarianism.
Or their wishy-washy talent in "fostering an environment of tolerance and harmony."
Dave Wilson,
The group who met Kenwright published an apparent verbatin account of virtually EVERYTHING SINGLE THING said by the FOUR people in the room..
Which to me indicates either autistic-savant levels of memory recall, OR...An illicit recording prohibited by the agreement.
Please expand upon exactly how my argument is "nullified," due to the Waitrose reference
Waitrose is a multi-million pound business, as is Everton.
Are you seriously suggesting that a disparate lobby-group without proven acumen in the field, is to be universally acknowledged WITHOUT QUESTION of their credentials, as THE ANSWWER...purely via the premise they happen to be "emotionally-invested," in the cause?
Colin,
Re: "Talking shite."
Please list for (all of us) what qualifications the Blue Union has pertaining to the economics of Premiership football, their expertise in liasing with potential International investors, or their profound knowledge of new stadia development / construction.
Please also enlighten me as to their track record, or success, in combatting Sectarianism.
Or their wishy-washy talent in "fostering an environment of tolerance and harmony."
Dave Wilson,
The group who met Kenwright published an apparent verbatin account of virtually EVERYTHING SINGLE THING said by the FOUR people in the room..
Which to me indicates either autistic-savant levels of memory recall, OR...An illicit recording prohibited by the agreement.
Brian Denton
294 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:06:22
294 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:06:22
Kevin, I notice you didn't give my post a response. I want to know how Everton compares with Waitrose, other than in being a corporate body. That is about the only comparison I can see.
If you cannot see the difference between a business that has NO emotional bond with its customers (who will decide whether or not to patronise the business on the basis of price/product range and ambience) and a football club (whose 'customers' base their patronage on a host of illogical and emotional motives) then you are wilfully blind.
If you cannot see the difference between a business that has NO emotional bond with its customers (who will decide whether or not to patronise the business on the basis of price/product range and ambience) and a football club (whose 'customers' base their patronage on a host of illogical and emotional motives) then you are wilfully blind.
Mark Riding
295 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:15:12
295 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:15:12
Brian/Kevin I at least tried to compare the two in my post #225...
Eddie McBride
296 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:12:25
296 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:12:25
Kevin how do you know what was published was verbatim? You weren't secretly taping it on behalf of Blue Bill, were you?
It seems you know an awful lot about it...
It seems you know an awful lot about it...
Colin Wainwright
297 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:10:34
297 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:10:34
Er none Kevin.
Can you list for me and ''all of us'', the qualifications the current board has in liasing with international investors, and profound knowledge of stadia development. You know, not a group of concerned fans but the fuckin people that should know what their doing.
Didn't think so.
And WTF has sectarianism got to do with anything.
Can you list for me and ''all of us'', the qualifications the current board has in liasing with international investors, and profound knowledge of stadia development. You know, not a group of concerned fans but the fuckin people that should know what their doing.
Didn't think so.
And WTF has sectarianism got to do with anything.
Kevin Hudson
298 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:14:59
298 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:14:59
Brian,
I'm a season-ticket holder, and as irrationally & emotionally-bound to Everton as everyone on here..
My question pertains to the verifiable business credibilty the Blue Union posesses, or lacks..
Just because they 'love the club' doesn't mean they have a clue how to run it.
I'm a season-ticket holder, and as irrationally & emotionally-bound to Everton as everyone on here..
My question pertains to the verifiable business credibilty the Blue Union posesses, or lacks..
Just because they 'love the club' doesn't mean they have a clue how to run it.
Chris Sudall
299 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:12:58
299 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:12:58
I guess I will never understand the full ins and outs of the whole affair.
It does appear BK was tricked though. He seemed a nice enough fella when I spoke to him, maybe a little arrogant and not rich enough to run the club.
But at least he's tried and he's a blue, hopefully he'll find a buyer and we'll all be happy.
It does appear BK was tricked though. He seemed a nice enough fella when I spoke to him, maybe a little arrogant and not rich enough to run the club.
But at least he's tried and he's a blue, hopefully he'll find a buyer and we'll all be happy.
Mark Riding
300 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:16:54
300 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:16:54
The figures recently suggest to me, that Bill's great 'theatre company' made £2m last year... Moyes gets paid nearly double this huge sum to manage our team. Fellaini gets paid even more, Cahill gets similar, as probably does Howard, Saha.... etc.
So in short, a lot of Everton FC's staff get paid more than the Chairman makes each year...
Forget BU, hidden tapes etc ? these are facts that cannot continue without Everton going BUST!!!
So in short, a lot of Everton FC's staff get paid more than the Chairman makes each year...
Forget BU, hidden tapes etc ? these are facts that cannot continue without Everton going BUST!!!
Kevin Hudson
301 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:20:53
301 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:20:53
Colin,
The Blue Union would (quote) "actively work against Sectarianism."
(Source: The Blue Union's OWN FUCKIN' WEBSITE).
Fact: As you admit, the BU have ZERO experience of ANY football-related business activity; therefore, other than raising awareness of something we already knew, and generating some media profile, they represent little other than a side-lined talking-shop.
If I formed a disparate organisation, and generated a following, minus ANY industry acumen - would you blindly support me, and attack those who questioned my credentials - simply because I have "the best interests of the club at heart.."?
The Blue Union would (quote) "actively work against Sectarianism."
(Source: The Blue Union's OWN FUCKIN' WEBSITE).
Fact: As you admit, the BU have ZERO experience of ANY football-related business activity; therefore, other than raising awareness of something we already knew, and generating some media profile, they represent little other than a side-lined talking-shop.
If I formed a disparate organisation, and generated a following, minus ANY industry acumen - would you blindly support me, and attack those who questioned my credentials - simply because I have "the best interests of the club at heart.."?
Michael Kenrick
302 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:35:21
302 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:35:21
Just because they 'love the club' doesn't mean they have a clue how to run it.
Oh, the irony!
Oh, the irony!
Mark Riding
303 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:32:51
303 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:32:51
Whats all this 'sectarianism' shite.. ??
A few half everton/celtic bobble hats in the 80's is all I ever remember seeing...
I took a Rangers fan to a game a few years ago at Goodison, and after the initial "Why is there a fucking church built into the home end ?" question.. no more was said..
A few half everton/celtic bobble hats in the 80's is all I ever remember seeing...
I took a Rangers fan to a game a few years ago at Goodison, and after the initial "Why is there a fucking church built into the home end ?" question.. no more was said..
Kevin Hudson
304 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:31:31
304 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:31:31
Eddie,
I challenge any of the Blue Union members to come on here, identify themselves, and refute any of my posts.
I challenge any of the Blue Union members to come on here, identify themselves, and refute any of my posts.
Kevin Hudson
305 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:37:36
305 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:37:36
Michael,
...Agreed..!!
...Agreed..!!
Mark Riding
306 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:40:51
306 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:40:51
Michael, from what I can see here, no-one is suggesting they know how to run the club..
I for one, I wont say 'we'.. just want to know what its for sale for !?
I for one, I wont say 'we'.. just want to know what its for sale for !?
Gavin Ramejkis
307 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:41:13
307 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:41:13
Kevin just out of interest and as a watered down devil's advicate knowing you agree that change is required and BB is past his sell by date. How would you go about it?
Nothing confrontational, just a question as you've berated a bunch of completely amateur match going lads who have spent their own time and energy and more to put together what they have so far. They have made mistakes but they haven't got the likes of PR agents who specialise in negative media situations, the local media as per the leaked emails and some fan groups and ex players together with the Daily Mail to run propoganda stories which actually answered nothing whatsoever.
Nothing confrontational, just a question as you've berated a bunch of completely amateur match going lads who have spent their own time and energy and more to put together what they have so far. They have made mistakes but they haven't got the likes of PR agents who specialise in negative media situations, the local media as per the leaked emails and some fan groups and ex players together with the Daily Mail to run propoganda stories which actually answered nothing whatsoever.
Brian Waring
308 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:40:03
308 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:40:03
Kevin, the BU are just asking questions, questions I imagine most Evertonians want to know the answers to, whats the problem with that?
Also, I don't think they profess to knowing the ins and outs of running a business.
Also, I don't think they profess to knowing the ins and outs of running a business.
Kevin Hudson
309 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:50:00
309 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:50:00
Gavin,
Every time I debate with you, you resort to mocking my "verbosity," grammar, verb-selection, etc..
So you won't be suprised if your innocent-sounding "nothing confrontational," line cuts no ice, will you..?
You might also want to direct your "devil's advocate," line of questions to those who purposely put themselves in the spotlight, minus as they are, of any track-record within the industry they wish to avail themselves of.
Every time I debate with you, you resort to mocking my "verbosity," grammar, verb-selection, etc..
So you won't be suprised if your innocent-sounding "nothing confrontational," line cuts no ice, will you..?
You might also want to direct your "devil's advocate," line of questions to those who purposely put themselves in the spotlight, minus as they are, of any track-record within the industry they wish to avail themselves of.
Kevin Hudson
310 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:56:54
310 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:56:54
Brian,
Questions are fine & relevant.
My issue lies with their desire to involve themselves in the sale of the club, and construction of a new stadium - without a history of success in either field.
Questions are fine & relevant.
My issue lies with their desire to involve themselves in the sale of the club, and construction of a new stadium - without a history of success in either field.
Mark Riding
311 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:03:09
311 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:03:09
As opposed to our current owners who have a great track record in the 'construction of a new stadium'..
John Crawley
312 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:57:15
312 Posted 08/01/2012 at 21:57:15
Kevin Hudson ? you have not answered my question in post 187.
With regard to a lot of your comments on this thread I really think you have let yourself down with false statements and mudslinging against the Blue Union.
1) You have a go about the Blue Union and the fact that they "wish to 'actively work against Sectarianism.' Why..? ". Well sectarianism can be political as well. In the political context I think the explanation in Wikipedia is a good one: "In the political realm, to describe a group as "sectarian" (or as practicising "sectarianism"), is to accuse them of prioritizing differences and rivalries with politically close groups. An example might be a communist group who are accused of devoting an excessive amount of time and energy to denouncing other communist groups rather than their common foes." In this case I think your comments throughout this thread are a very good example of sectarianism, you state that you are against Bill Kenwright and his running of the club but you have spent the vast majority of your time and energy in denouncing the Blue Union.
2) The Blue Union have corralled the national media. I haven't got a clue how you justify this comment. They have sought to get over their arguments to the media but corralling them? If that accusation can be levelled at anyone it must be Everton Football Club who have banned and tried to intimidate journalists both local and national for critical reports or in the case of Tony Barrett of The Times for simply interviewing the Blue Union.
3) You state that they "agreed - in advance, that NO NOTES were to be taken during said meeting." - Sorry but this statement is wrong. The only condition that was attached before the meeting was an agreement that they couldn't ask a question about the price the club was up for sale for. The request not to take notes was made by Bill Kenwright at the start of the actual meeting.
4) You state that the Blue Union want to "involve themselves with the running of a multi-million pound company..?" Sorry but I just can't see anything from the Blue Union that states this. Their main aim is the appointment of an independent body, made up of PROFESSIONAL EXPERTS to oversee the selling of the club. That is is a bit different than your claim that they want to involve themselves in the running of the club.
With regard to a lot of your comments on this thread I really think you have let yourself down with false statements and mudslinging against the Blue Union.
1) You have a go about the Blue Union and the fact that they "wish to 'actively work against Sectarianism.' Why..? ". Well sectarianism can be political as well. In the political context I think the explanation in Wikipedia is a good one: "In the political realm, to describe a group as "sectarian" (or as practicising "sectarianism"), is to accuse them of prioritizing differences and rivalries with politically close groups. An example might be a communist group who are accused of devoting an excessive amount of time and energy to denouncing other communist groups rather than their common foes." In this case I think your comments throughout this thread are a very good example of sectarianism, you state that you are against Bill Kenwright and his running of the club but you have spent the vast majority of your time and energy in denouncing the Blue Union.
2) The Blue Union have corralled the national media. I haven't got a clue how you justify this comment. They have sought to get over their arguments to the media but corralling them? If that accusation can be levelled at anyone it must be Everton Football Club who have banned and tried to intimidate journalists both local and national for critical reports or in the case of Tony Barrett of The Times for simply interviewing the Blue Union.
3) You state that they "agreed - in advance, that NO NOTES were to be taken during said meeting." - Sorry but this statement is wrong. The only condition that was attached before the meeting was an agreement that they couldn't ask a question about the price the club was up for sale for. The request not to take notes was made by Bill Kenwright at the start of the actual meeting.
4) You state that the Blue Union want to "involve themselves with the running of a multi-million pound company..?" Sorry but I just can't see anything from the Blue Union that states this. Their main aim is the appointment of an independent body, made up of PROFESSIONAL EXPERTS to oversee the selling of the club. That is is a bit different than your claim that they want to involve themselves in the running of the club.
Kevin Tully
313 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:57:18
313 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:57:18
@ Kevin Hudson,
1. Do you believe there are three or four interested parties in current negotiations to purchase the club?
2. What do you believe the apporximate asking price is for E.F.C.?
3. Did you think the recently published e-mails from Ian Ross were genuine?
1. Do you believe there are three or four interested parties in current negotiations to purchase the club?
2. What do you believe the apporximate asking price is for E.F.C.?
3. Did you think the recently published e-mails from Ian Ross were genuine?
Mark Riding
314 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:10:31
314 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:10:31
Stand by Kevin Tully...
Tom Hughes
315 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:35:09
315 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:35:09
This is simply a case of some people never being admit they've been duped.... and worse still that others have been telling them so for yrs. The climb down is too painful, and they'd much rather try to defend the indefensible. They grasp at anything for some vague credibility..... Is an anti-sectarian footnote of any importance in a discussion about the whole demise of our club? Honestly, so what?
The point is, and always was, this regime have never answered questions about very serious issues that have now culminated in our current state..... I watched BK squirm out of the whole Kings Dock debacle, unable to answer any shareholders direct, simple questions and requests for explanations. This happened on so many issues. Every AGM afterwards was littered with lies and plain refusal to answer.... this went on for years and shareholders were turning on him in big numbers. Then we had the farce that was DK, that almost caused open revolt at the AGMs and subsequent EGM.....
I'm not sure how you can comment but you'd be very surprised to know that some of the BU membership are very highly qualified professional people, who have run major businesses and projects. KEIOC (and constituent member of the BU) were also commended for their submissions and presentations at the Public Inquiry, that quite frankly wiped the floor with those from the supposed professionals. The look on Elstone's face when the boxes of evidence were submitted was a picture. It dwarfed the combined submission of all the other parties..... not bad for unpaid enthusiasts.
So, for christ sake get off their case, they haven't poisoned the club into it's current dysfunctional stupur..... that was the people who have been supposedly running the club. Who have invested and delivered nothing in over 10yrs!
The point is, and always was, this regime have never answered questions about very serious issues that have now culminated in our current state..... I watched BK squirm out of the whole Kings Dock debacle, unable to answer any shareholders direct, simple questions and requests for explanations. This happened on so many issues. Every AGM afterwards was littered with lies and plain refusal to answer.... this went on for years and shareholders were turning on him in big numbers. Then we had the farce that was DK, that almost caused open revolt at the AGMs and subsequent EGM.....
I'm not sure how you can comment but you'd be very surprised to know that some of the BU membership are very highly qualified professional people, who have run major businesses and projects. KEIOC (and constituent member of the BU) were also commended for their submissions and presentations at the Public Inquiry, that quite frankly wiped the floor with those from the supposed professionals. The look on Elstone's face when the boxes of evidence were submitted was a picture. It dwarfed the combined submission of all the other parties..... not bad for unpaid enthusiasts.
So, for christ sake get off their case, they haven't poisoned the club into it's current dysfunctional stupur..... that was the people who have been supposedly running the club. Who have invested and delivered nothing in over 10yrs!
Brian Denton
316 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:14:53
316 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:14:53
Excellent post, Tom. I await Kevin's response with interest.
Mark Riding
317 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:15:13
317 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:15:13
Tom Hughes.. totally agree. Kings Dock, that was the one.. Kids, Grandkids.. future Evertonians, all gone in a 'ringfenced' LIE !! Unforgivable.
Ed Fitzgerald
318 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:32:43
318 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:32:43
Kevin
I am not sure what heinous crime the Blue Union have carried out other than ask a few pertinent questions to Bill Kenwright but you certainly seem to be enraged by their actions why? Everton?s relationship and communications strategy (?) with its fans is both dismissive and opaque.
As you keep stressing the business analogy e.g. your comparison with Waitrose, I will consider the problem from that angle even though I don?t really agree with it. Like all organisations Everton don?t like its customer base raising uncomfortable questions about why a product the customers once believed in has turned to shite exacerbated by a decade of broken promises e.g. new ground, money for transfers, investment 24/7 blah, blah Therefore the customers/supporters are:
? Complaining about the product on offer
? Abandoning the product all together ? even our supermarket manager has admitted to this phenomena due to the sub-standard produce being offered
? Wondering when their promised new superstore is ever going to be built
I am amused that you compared us to a ?posh? supermarket such as Waitrose when we have more akin with a Lidl or Netto e.g. rather cheap imported goods that we don?t really trust or goods that are well past their sell by date. No offence if you use these shops I can?t afford to shop at Waitrose either all though I might now and then if I stopped watching the Blues.
Kevin, it?s clear from what you write that you are an intelligent person but I get the impression you are intent on winding people up and your responses are condescending and actually miss the point. Inaction from Evertonians (all of us) has brought us to this point of anger and frustration.
I think most Evertonians have wanted Kenwright to succeed because he is an Evertonian and we have been very patient with him and wanted to believe him. To attack a group of fellow paying supporters for trying to reveal what is happening at the club is very unfair. I think it is time you came down from your ivory tower and used some of your intellect to bring about some change yourself instead of carping at those who are trying to do so.
I am not sure what heinous crime the Blue Union have carried out other than ask a few pertinent questions to Bill Kenwright but you certainly seem to be enraged by their actions why? Everton?s relationship and communications strategy (?) with its fans is both dismissive and opaque.
As you keep stressing the business analogy e.g. your comparison with Waitrose, I will consider the problem from that angle even though I don?t really agree with it. Like all organisations Everton don?t like its customer base raising uncomfortable questions about why a product the customers once believed in has turned to shite exacerbated by a decade of broken promises e.g. new ground, money for transfers, investment 24/7 blah, blah Therefore the customers/supporters are:
? Complaining about the product on offer
? Abandoning the product all together ? even our supermarket manager has admitted to this phenomena due to the sub-standard produce being offered
? Wondering when their promised new superstore is ever going to be built
I am amused that you compared us to a ?posh? supermarket such as Waitrose when we have more akin with a Lidl or Netto e.g. rather cheap imported goods that we don?t really trust or goods that are well past their sell by date. No offence if you use these shops I can?t afford to shop at Waitrose either all though I might now and then if I stopped watching the Blues.
Kevin, it?s clear from what you write that you are an intelligent person but I get the impression you are intent on winding people up and your responses are condescending and actually miss the point. Inaction from Evertonians (all of us) has brought us to this point of anger and frustration.
I think most Evertonians have wanted Kenwright to succeed because he is an Evertonian and we have been very patient with him and wanted to believe him. To attack a group of fellow paying supporters for trying to reveal what is happening at the club is very unfair. I think it is time you came down from your ivory tower and used some of your intellect to bring about some change yourself instead of carping at those who are trying to do so.
Colin Fitzpatrick
319 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:00:39
319 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:00:39
Kevin #265
?My issue lies with their desire to involve themselves in the sale of the club, and construction of a new stadium - without a history of success in either field.?
I find this a puzzling statement, specifically the ?without a history of success in either field? The Blue Union are simply asking for a degree of professionalism to be introduced into the sale process due to the current boards demonstrable lack of success in either field you mention, building a new stadium and the sale of the club. They, the board, are the ones with no success here, the Blue Union aren?t claiming to be the professionals, they want professionals brought into the process, people like Inner Circle Sports for example.
The vast majority now realise that this board only displays competency in the field of incompetency. It cannot go on any longer and the Blue Union have offered a solution; the board wish to carry on regardless, which will inevitably bring about further damage to the club?s standing. You appear to disapprove of the Blue Union?s solution to the impasse; I?d be interested to hear your constructive solutions, if you have any?
?My issue lies with their desire to involve themselves in the sale of the club, and construction of a new stadium - without a history of success in either field.?
I find this a puzzling statement, specifically the ?without a history of success in either field? The Blue Union are simply asking for a degree of professionalism to be introduced into the sale process due to the current boards demonstrable lack of success in either field you mention, building a new stadium and the sale of the club. They, the board, are the ones with no success here, the Blue Union aren?t claiming to be the professionals, they want professionals brought into the process, people like Inner Circle Sports for example.
The vast majority now realise that this board only displays competency in the field of incompetency. It cannot go on any longer and the Blue Union have offered a solution; the board wish to carry on regardless, which will inevitably bring about further damage to the club?s standing. You appear to disapprove of the Blue Union?s solution to the impasse; I?d be interested to hear your constructive solutions, if you have any?
Kevin Hudson
320 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:06:08
320 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:06:08
John,
Regarding the "no notes," claim (and counter-claim), if you wish to believe an organisation fronted by a cake-carrying clown, then be my guest.
The Blue Union state that they ?..would assist the Owner, the Chairman, the Board and the Executive Officers in their endeavours to attract investment and/or a take over of the Club?and would work with all interested parties to resolve the longstanding Stadium issue."
Minus of course the pertinent details regarding either their specific plans, or qualifications for doing so. Or their expertise in appointing said independent professional body to run the club on an interim basis.
Like Seamus before you, and frequently Gavin, you've resorted to knit-picking my choice of words: First the objection to the phrase "gerrymander," and now, your aversion to the word "corrall."
Fine..(sigh)...the Blue Union have "gained," some national press coverage, and kudos to them for it. Happy..?
Finally, to the issue you raise about the BU's (apparent) fight against Sectarianism:
(Re, Everton, see 'fish,' and 'price of.')
Regarding the "no notes," claim (and counter-claim), if you wish to believe an organisation fronted by a cake-carrying clown, then be my guest.
The Blue Union state that they ?..would assist the Owner, the Chairman, the Board and the Executive Officers in their endeavours to attract investment and/or a take over of the Club?and would work with all interested parties to resolve the longstanding Stadium issue."
Minus of course the pertinent details regarding either their specific plans, or qualifications for doing so. Or their expertise in appointing said independent professional body to run the club on an interim basis.
Like Seamus before you, and frequently Gavin, you've resorted to knit-picking my choice of words: First the objection to the phrase "gerrymander," and now, your aversion to the word "corrall."
Fine..(sigh)...the Blue Union have "gained," some national press coverage, and kudos to them for it. Happy..?
Finally, to the issue you raise about the BU's (apparent) fight against Sectarianism:
(Re, Everton, see 'fish,' and 'price of.')
Danny Broderick
321 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:58:33
321 Posted 08/01/2012 at 22:58:33
Kevin,
The BU might have no experience of running a football club, but you don't need to be Alan Sugar to spot a business that's in trouble. The big give away is the bottom line,once you deduct costs from turnover. If you don't make a profit, you're fucked. And guess what?...
We all know this board's track record, they've managed to keep us propped up because they have been able to sell off all our assets and borrow against future earnings... until now.
But what is amazing is that some people think the fans should do no more than watch events unfold. If the board are so blind that they can't see the damage that has been done to us, we as fans must make them see it. The Blue Union are doing this magnificently. Even the local rag has got off its arse and started reporting the truth as opposed to the sugar-coated version of events,and this is down to the Blue Union alone.
The current board are mere custodians of the football club. They'll be gone eventually one way or the other,but we need it sooner rather than later. Investment is critical now. We fielded our oldest ever Premier League line-up a few weeks ago. How are we going to replace these ageing players? We can't even afford a rumour in the transfer window under this board.
The BU might have no experience of running a football club, but you don't need to be Alan Sugar to spot a business that's in trouble. The big give away is the bottom line,once you deduct costs from turnover. If you don't make a profit, you're fucked. And guess what?...
We all know this board's track record, they've managed to keep us propped up because they have been able to sell off all our assets and borrow against future earnings... until now.
But what is amazing is that some people think the fans should do no more than watch events unfold. If the board are so blind that they can't see the damage that has been done to us, we as fans must make them see it. The Blue Union are doing this magnificently. Even the local rag has got off its arse and started reporting the truth as opposed to the sugar-coated version of events,and this is down to the Blue Union alone.
The current board are mere custodians of the football club. They'll be gone eventually one way or the other,but we need it sooner rather than later. Investment is critical now. We fielded our oldest ever Premier League line-up a few weeks ago. How are we going to replace these ageing players? We can't even afford a rumour in the transfer window under this board.
Brian Denton
322 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:33:00
322 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:33:00
Kevin, the post to respond to is Ed Fitzgerald's - rather than repeating yourself (with or without sigh) on 'sectarianism' etc
Tom Hughes
323 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:29:23
323 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:29:23
Kevin,
I honestly cannot remember anyone post so much and actually say so little....
Is that it? BU aren't credible because of a relative footnote on their website..... Meanwhile people can list numerous failings of the board over a number of years, and you seem completely oblivious.
Have you a serious point, because you only seem to be interested in twisting absolute trivia and falsehoods? Your faux condemnation of our board is yet another thinly veiled attempt at credibility for your non-argument.
I honestly cannot remember anyone post so much and actually say so little....
Is that it? BU aren't credible because of a relative footnote on their website..... Meanwhile people can list numerous failings of the board over a number of years, and you seem completely oblivious.
Have you a serious point, because you only seem to be interested in twisting absolute trivia and falsehoods? Your faux condemnation of our board is yet another thinly veiled attempt at credibility for your non-argument.
Kevin Hudson
324 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:28:41
324 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:28:41
I should point out to those who haven't read the full thread, that I have indicated SIX TIMES I want Kenwright to move on.
(Posts: 55,67,73,161,198,200).
Yet a debate on the virtues of questioning the (apparent) alternative Knights In Shining Armour warrants such a backlash..?
Simple. Show me their credentials.
(Posts: 55,67,73,161,198,200).
Yet a debate on the virtues of questioning the (apparent) alternative Knights In Shining Armour warrants such a backlash..?
Simple. Show me their credentials.
Tom Hughes
325 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:42:40
325 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:42:40
What credentials do you need to ask pertinent questions....? Several are shareholding blues.... all are match-going Evertonians, what more "credentials" do they need?
You should be more concerned about the credentials of the people responsible for our multiple failings.... but you're vehemently not. Why is that I wonder?
You should be more concerned about the credentials of the people responsible for our multiple failings.... but you're vehemently not. Why is that I wonder?
John Crawley
326 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:29:07
326 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:29:07
Kevin Hudson 275 - You stated that the request for no notes was made in advance. I have stated that this is not correct. With regard to your comment that I wish to believe an organisation fronted by a cake carrying clown I don't have to believe the Blue Union.
Here is what Mark Rowan who works for EFC said in an email: "At the meeting it was requested that there was to be no note taking". Like a lot of your comments in this thread, it's another attempt to belittle and smear an organisation while stating things which are incorrect.
You accuse me of knit picking your choice of words. Sorry but this is not what I am doing, I am having a go at the false impression that you are trying to create. There is a world of difference between gerrymandering or coralling the press and your response that they have gained some press coverage.
Here is what Mark Rowan who works for EFC said in an email: "At the meeting it was requested that there was to be no note taking". Like a lot of your comments in this thread, it's another attempt to belittle and smear an organisation while stating things which are incorrect.
You accuse me of knit picking your choice of words. Sorry but this is not what I am doing, I am having a go at the false impression that you are trying to create. There is a world of difference between gerrymandering or coralling the press and your response that they have gained some press coverage.
Kevin Tully
327 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:46:14
327 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:46:14
Kevin Hudson,
Why does someone need to be qualified to highlight a pack of lies and inconsistencies?
Why does someone need to be qualified to highlight a pack of lies and inconsistencies?
Mark Riding
328 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:55:54
328 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:55:54
Turning into the Kevin Hudson thread..
Get back to Bill Kenwright is going to sink the club without a trace thread..
Get back to Bill Kenwright is going to sink the club without a trace thread..
Kevin Hudson
329 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:49:34
329 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:49:34
Tom,
The credentials I'm interested in pertains to their stated desire to:: " ..assist the Owner, the Chairman, the Board and the Executive Officeror my beings in their endeavours to attract investment and/or a take over of the Club?and would work with all interested parties to resolve the longstanding Stadium issue."
(Source: The Blue Union).
As for my alleged lack of vehemence regarding Kenwright, do I need to stipulate 6 more times that I want him gone..? Or are you not reading my posts, yet somehow responding to them..?
The credentials I'm interested in pertains to their stated desire to:: " ..assist the Owner, the Chairman, the Board and the Executive Officeror my beings in their endeavours to attract investment and/or a take over of the Club?and would work with all interested parties to resolve the longstanding Stadium issue."
(Source: The Blue Union).
As for my alleged lack of vehemence regarding Kenwright, do I need to stipulate 6 more times that I want him gone..? Or are you not reading my posts, yet somehow responding to them..?
Ste Traverse
330 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:59:04
330 Posted 08/01/2012 at 23:59:04
So you want Kenwright gone Kevin,but seem intent on attacking a group that's been highlighting his long list of failings?
Hmmm.......
Hmmm.......
Kevin Hudson
331 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:01:30
331 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:01:30
No Ste,
I want their credentials, experience, viable alternatives, business plan vetted.
Hmmm......
I want their credentials, experience, viable alternatives, business plan vetted.
Hmmm......
Brian Waring
332 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:04:42
332 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:04:42
Kevin, you say you want BK to move on, but continue to condemn the BU, who want the same.
Mark Riding
333 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:04:57
333 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:04:57
Credentials for what exactly?
Blue Union are not trying to take over the club. They want answers to simple questions.
CND campaign outside gates, not Evertonians... but that's what it's come to...
Blue Union are not trying to take over the club. They want answers to simple questions.
CND campaign outside gates, not Evertonians... but that's what it's come to...
Brian Waring
334 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:06:45
334 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:06:45
Ignore my post Kevin, didn't see your reply to Ste.
Kevin Hudson
335 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:07:01
335 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:07:01
Brian,
I agree with the premise, but question their capabilty to deliver upon their stated goals; or their desire to involve themselves in crucial affairs - which Mark Riding should look into, on the BU's own website.
I think I've sufficiently hogged the thread now; I've leave you all to chew it over...
I agree with the premise, but question their capabilty to deliver upon their stated goals; or their desire to involve themselves in crucial affairs - which Mark Riding should look into, on the BU's own website.
I think I've sufficiently hogged the thread now; I've leave you all to chew it over...
Ste Traverse
336 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:10:50
336 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:10:50
Kevin, you seem more interested in slagging off the BU than you are at having a go at a man who is currently wrecking the club.
The BU currently don't have any power inside Goodison so it's totally ridiculous to demand their "credentials, experience, viable alternatives, business plan vetted".
What are yours by the way,so we can see you in a position to judge them?
The BU currently don't have any power inside Goodison so it's totally ridiculous to demand their "credentials, experience, viable alternatives, business plan vetted".
What are yours by the way,so we can see you in a position to judge them?
Tom Hughes
337 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:05:10
337 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:05:10
Kevin,
Saying something a million times is irrelevant if you then back it up with the complete opposite. KEIOC have in the past employed architects and stadium designers to help illustrate their points.... they have also engaged the city planners and the council leadership... and several other interested parties (including even the club). It's all in the public domain.... see for instance their articles on the Football quarter:
http://thefootballquarter.com/docs/the_football_quarter_a_joint_perspective.pdf
Given the continued failure to sell, the BU feel that an independent agency is needed to preside over the process, as the "best salesman in the world has continually demonstrated that he is the least qualified and able to deliver (a never ending recuring theme). He cannot even account for 1/3rd of our turnover.... yet you're after "credentials" of people simply posing questions.... If you were seriously anti BK you would want to know the answers too, but you're only interested in slagging the BU. A complete contradiction..... Rossy reincarnated perhaps?
Saying something a million times is irrelevant if you then back it up with the complete opposite. KEIOC have in the past employed architects and stadium designers to help illustrate their points.... they have also engaged the city planners and the council leadership... and several other interested parties (including even the club). It's all in the public domain.... see for instance their articles on the Football quarter:
http://thefootballquarter.com/docs/the_football_quarter_a_joint_perspective.pdf
Given the continued failure to sell, the BU feel that an independent agency is needed to preside over the process, as the "best salesman in the world has continually demonstrated that he is the least qualified and able to deliver (a never ending recuring theme). He cannot even account for 1/3rd of our turnover.... yet you're after "credentials" of people simply posing questions.... If you were seriously anti BK you would want to know the answers too, but you're only interested in slagging the BU. A complete contradiction..... Rossy reincarnated perhaps?
Andy Crooks
338 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:18:34
338 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:18:34
I have spent quite a while reading this thread and I believe it is a perfect example of why this is the best supporter site around. I support the Blue Union and feel that, whatever inevitable flaws are there, they offer the only hope in what is a grave predicament for our club.
Still, I believe that Kevin Hudson, with whom I agree with on little, has made a superb contribution to a good debate.
Still, I believe that Kevin Hudson, with whom I agree with on little, has made a superb contribution to a good debate.
Mark Riding
339 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:32:17
339 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:32:17
Andy, I agree totally. I dont agree with Kevin on virtually everything, as is pretty obvious, but as he suggested, I re-visited the BU site and have just done a bit of reading.
I think with a few quid invested into their 'campaign' and maybe even a figure-head ex-player, it would carry more potency. If that's the case, raise some decent funds and ask for donations and publish were the money goes, as we are all sceptical where money is concerned..
But what I really want, is a simple answer to a simple question.. no need for videos in car parks etc... HOW MUCH IS IT BILL ??
I think with a few quid invested into their 'campaign' and maybe even a figure-head ex-player, it would carry more potency. If that's the case, raise some decent funds and ask for donations and publish were the money goes, as we are all sceptical where money is concerned..
But what I really want, is a simple answer to a simple question.. no need for videos in car parks etc... HOW MUCH IS IT BILL ??
Colin Fitzpatrick
340 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:52:40
340 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:52:40
I'm just feeling left out lol
Jack Wilkinson
341 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:16:52
341 Posted 09/01/2012 at 00:16:52
Think what you want of this, but from one of the chief stewards I hear that the price Kenwright is holding out on is £180M, having rejected an offer of £90M + debts. As I said this has passed from word of mouth from one steward through one person. Obviously it looks like any number of fabricated rumours, but from the state of things at the club it looks like it could be accurate.
In any case, I just hope that somebody IS stupid enough to pay this price. It seems more likely than BK lowering his price!
As for who's holding back the club more out of BU and BK? Kenwright's heart has been in the right place for a long time, but now we need money and not a well-wisher. He's not the wealthiest of men, but he should cut his losses and walk away to retain the respect and integrity that still remains.
In any case, I just hope that somebody IS stupid enough to pay this price. It seems more likely than BK lowering his price!
As for who's holding back the club more out of BU and BK? Kenwright's heart has been in the right place for a long time, but now we need money and not a well-wisher. He's not the wealthiest of men, but he should cut his losses and walk away to retain the respect and integrity that still remains.
Eric Myles
342 Posted 09/01/2012 at 01:26:33
342 Posted 09/01/2012 at 01:26:33
^Jack, Kenwright and the board haven't made any losses as they haven't invested a penny into the Club.
But it looks like they're holding out to make a huge profit.
But it looks like they're holding out to make a huge profit.
Roman Sidey
343 Posted 09/01/2012 at 01:26:21
343 Posted 09/01/2012 at 01:26:21
Just a question that could be seen as stupid, but I see it as just not knowing.
Does the board earn a salary from the club, or dividends?
Does the board earn a salary from the club, or dividends?
Colin Fitzpatrick
344 Posted 09/01/2012 at 01:37:53
344 Posted 09/01/2012 at 01:37:53
No Roman they don't. It would be stated in the accounts if they did.
Mark Riding
345 Posted 09/01/2012 at 01:43:35
345 Posted 09/01/2012 at 01:43:35
Roman, look under 'operating costs'.. and draw your own conclusions.
Mark Riding
346 Posted 09/01/2012 at 01:50:12
346 Posted 09/01/2012 at 01:50:12
And Warnock was apparantly sacked for wanting to sign Yakubu... no doubt for five times what we sold him for. Priceless!
Roman Sidey
347 Posted 09/01/2012 at 01:45:18
347 Posted 09/01/2012 at 01:45:18
Thanks. It is something I only just thought about asking.
Other operating costs could be something I guess. I always thought that those were things like morning tea or meals when the board does convene, fuel cards, etc. The perks of the job. So I guess we are thinking along the same lines.
Other operating costs could be something I guess. I always thought that those were things like morning tea or meals when the board does convene, fuel cards, etc. The perks of the job. So I guess we are thinking along the same lines.
Eddie McBride
348 Posted 09/01/2012 at 02:20:25
348 Posted 09/01/2012 at 02:20:25
Roman how dare you suspect our board of using club funds for such things as fuel and food.Boys pen Billy has never took a penny from the club and the missing 28 million will turn up somewhere its not fallen into your pocket has it
Gavin Ramejkis
349 Posted 09/01/2012 at 06:08:52
349 Posted 09/01/2012 at 06:08:52
Kevin, the olive branch was offered for a response and I'm still waiting. If I wanted to bait you earlier I could have very early on this thread where your rant contained some non trade mark spelling mistakes for you as if typing in anger.
Anyhow, still waiting for a response and whilst you are at it if you could quantify your credentials to that response, i.e. your experience.
Anyhow, still waiting for a response and whilst you are at it if you could quantify your credentials to that response, i.e. your experience.
Martin Mason
350 Posted 09/01/2012 at 05:42:57
350 Posted 09/01/2012 at 05:42:57
Governments and other organisations around the world are now finding out that they must operate within a prudent financial framework and low levels of debt and football clubs without a benefactor are no exceptions. What has happened for us is the shock of finding out that despite the illusion that many hold of EFC being a big club we are actually a small club without the financial resources to eat at the top table or perhaps even to be in the top division. For me the board's major fault has been trying to maintain the illusion by borrowing and selling assets. They should have been honest years ago and run the club on a sound financial footing. But just be aware of a couple of things, they own the club and don't have to anything they don't want to
If we change the board the best outcome is that we may get some honesty but I can't believe that any sane person would invest the amount of money required to make EFC a top EPL club. We do not have the means to increase revenue to a level that would make the club an attractive buy at any price.
I believe that we have to accept and start with the reality that we are now a small club in EPL terms and lower our often irrational expectations of what we can achieve and no this isn't accepting mediocrity, it is reality.
Lastly, we all want change for the better at Everton but the reality is that we are a basket case and we have been for decades now. We just couldn't see or didn't want to see that the Emperor has no clothes.
If we change the board the best outcome is that we may get some honesty but I can't believe that any sane person would invest the amount of money required to make EFC a top EPL club. We do not have the means to increase revenue to a level that would make the club an attractive buy at any price.
I believe that we have to accept and start with the reality that we are now a small club in EPL terms and lower our often irrational expectations of what we can achieve and no this isn't accepting mediocrity, it is reality.
Lastly, we all want change for the better at Everton but the reality is that we are a basket case and we have been for decades now. We just couldn't see or didn't want to see that the Emperor has no clothes.
Zack Yusof
351 Posted 09/01/2012 at 07:04:03
351 Posted 09/01/2012 at 07:04:03
"Where's Sly Stallone? He phones every week.."
Classic. I'd laugh my head off if I wasn't so worried and pissed off..
Need Some New Owners (and a new manager..)
Classic. I'd laugh my head off if I wasn't so worried and pissed off..
Need Some New Owners (and a new manager..)
Brian Williams
352 Posted 09/01/2012 at 08:42:07
352 Posted 09/01/2012 at 08:42:07
Martin#310.
Very succinctly put. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said.
I can remember thinking more than once (mainly in the mid 80's) how soul destroying it must be for supporters of clubs that have nothing to look forward to each season except maybe a "league" giant killing, i.e beating one of the top six during the season.I remember feeling quite sorry for some of them as well.
That's now us!
Very succinctly put. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said.
I can remember thinking more than once (mainly in the mid 80's) how soul destroying it must be for supporters of clubs that have nothing to look forward to each season except maybe a "league" giant killing, i.e beating one of the top six during the season.I remember feeling quite sorry for some of them as well.
That's now us!
Andy Riley
353 Posted 09/01/2012 at 08:43:53
353 Posted 09/01/2012 at 08:43:53
The incident with BK on Saturday has now received some national attention in The Times and whilst the article is mildly supportive of him it seems that at least the questions being asked of him are highlighted. As I have said earlier some unity could be gained if an indication of the price being sought came from the club. This would at least allow those of us neither pro or anti BK to make an informed judgement.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/columnists/kay/article3280473.ece
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/columnists/kay/article3280473.ece
Phil Martin
354 Posted 09/01/2012 at 08:49:15
354 Posted 09/01/2012 at 08:49:15
Agent Johnson was never this obnoxious. And he was a Kopite.
Today we have a Pissed up, dithering, useless, con man. But at least he's the greatest Evertonian, eh?
Today we have a Pissed up, dithering, useless, con man. But at least he's the greatest Evertonian, eh?
Paul Gladwell
355 Posted 09/01/2012 at 09:02:59
355 Posted 09/01/2012 at 09:02:59
We where in a better position with Johnson than this tool, on the pitch and financially.
Richard Jones
356 Posted 09/01/2012 at 09:24:11
356 Posted 09/01/2012 at 09:24:11
Andy could you copy and paste the article, I think you have to log in to see it. Cheers mate!!
Eric Myles
357 Posted 09/01/2012 at 09:23:50
357 Posted 09/01/2012 at 09:23:50
Martin #310 "If we change the board the best outcome is that we may get some honesty but I can't believe that any sane person would invest the amount of money required to make EFC a top EPL club."
But you could quite easily believe that someone would invest the amount of money required to make Man City a top EPL club?
But you could quite easily believe that someone would invest the amount of money required to make Man City a top EPL club?
Paul Niklas
358 Posted 09/01/2012 at 09:28:33
358 Posted 09/01/2012 at 09:28:33
It surprises me that the basic premise of this debate revolves around the fact that if you're not a Blue Union supporter then by definition you are against everything they stand for.
Why are they exclusive when it comes to all the anti-arguments ?
There are many opinions and many contradictions on this thread but there is nothing wrong in wanting the club to be sold and hopefully achieve the cash injection required (which is never a guarantee). The club could sell for £150 million but that might be it... no more money therefore back to Square Oone.
The Blue Union do not have exclusive rights to their stance nor to anyone else's for that matter. We all want the same thing, we just differ on how it can be achieved. Just because you might want Bill to go does not mean you should therefore support the Blue Union.
I for one want what's best but I trust fully the people running the club to come up with the best outcome. Nobody can have a problem with that because all the arguments the Blue Union have in my opinion are baseless, hanging their hat on a number on a balance sheet that if they were entitled to have the detail of it, which they are not, might be fully explainable... and if it is not, then that will come out in any due diligence process.
Nothing is black and white; if you think so, you do not understand business in any way, shape or form.
Why are they exclusive when it comes to all the anti-arguments ?
There are many opinions and many contradictions on this thread but there is nothing wrong in wanting the club to be sold and hopefully achieve the cash injection required (which is never a guarantee). The club could sell for £150 million but that might be it... no more money therefore back to Square Oone.
The Blue Union do not have exclusive rights to their stance nor to anyone else's for that matter. We all want the same thing, we just differ on how it can be achieved. Just because you might want Bill to go does not mean you should therefore support the Blue Union.
I for one want what's best but I trust fully the people running the club to come up with the best outcome. Nobody can have a problem with that because all the arguments the Blue Union have in my opinion are baseless, hanging their hat on a number on a balance sheet that if they were entitled to have the detail of it, which they are not, might be fully explainable... and if it is not, then that will come out in any due diligence process.
Nothing is black and white; if you think so, you do not understand business in any way, shape or form.
Steve Pugh
359 Posted 09/01/2012 at 09:51:41
359 Posted 09/01/2012 at 09:51:41
Paul, I think a lot of it comes down to who you believe more. Some people believe that the board are honest, trustworthy and put the club before their own financial gain. They believe that the board never lied over the move to Kirby. They believe that it was David Moyes who chose to sell Arteta, Vaughn and Beckford last summer. Some people still believe Bill Kenwright every time he says that he has several buyers lined up ready to buy the club. These people believe that the meeting between BK and the BU was confidential and the BU are liars, troublemakers and all round bad eggs.
Some people, on the other hand look at the history of lies that have come out of our club over the past 20 odd years and feel more inclined the believe the BU over somebody who has been proved to be a liar time and time again.
Some people, on the other hand look at the history of lies that have come out of our club over the past 20 odd years and feel more inclined the believe the BU over somebody who has been proved to be a liar time and time again.
Eric Myles
361 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:10:54
361 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:10:54
Paul #318 "I for one want whats best but I trust fully the people running the club ito come up with the best outcome.
Nobody can have a problem with that because all the arguments the Blue union have in my opinion are baseless"
Then you are a fool Paul if you put your trust in the incompetant charlatans that have destroyed our Club and don't recognise that we need something better.
Nobody can have a problem with that because all the arguments the Blue union have in my opinion are baseless"
Then you are a fool Paul if you put your trust in the incompetant charlatans that have destroyed our Club and don't recognise that we need something better.
Richard Jones
362 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:18:26
362 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:18:26
Paul, how does the saying go ? fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me, I think youve been fooled a damn sie more than twice my friend!! smell the coffee son.
Eric Myles
363 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:14:47
363 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:14:47
Richard "both he and Robert Elstone are on record with statements that he `takes neither salary nor benefits in kind from EFC`." and "But unlike so many,I am prepared to give our man time to make good on his promises"
Are you still waiting for him to make good on his promised ringfenced funds? Or the cheque in the morning?
Most people learn that when they've been lied to as often as we have they should not put faith in any further promises of the liar.
Are you still waiting for him to make good on his promised ringfenced funds? Or the cheque in the morning?
Most people learn that when they've been lied to as often as we have they should not put faith in any further promises of the liar.
Martin Mason
364 Posted 09/01/2012 at 09:48:12
364 Posted 09/01/2012 at 09:48:12
Eric
City were a bit of a special case and a once in a lifetime for UK soccer. Abu Dhabi wanted to promote Etihad, at the time they had money. City were cheap and they had a new ground that could be expanded and that was pre-crediit crunch. They looked at Everton and took City, that is what I mean. I can't see a worse buy than EFC and if the board genuinely want 180 million then they will never sell the club, it's worthless
Brian, yes, you could never imagine Everton becoming one of those poor "other" sides; how the mighty have fallen.:-).
We all have the same aims for the club btw and want them to do well but I see the problems with the club as far more serious structurally and that a simple change in board and or Manager will do nothing unless the new board have hundreds of billions to effectively waste. For the first time I'm fearing for the survival of the club. If we carry on our current unsustainable path I see relegation within a couple of years (we have a lot of old dead wood in the squad) and I see nothing to stop the rot.
I'm so sorry for Everton fans too as they are the very best. I've stopped going because I live on the South coast and work out of the country most of the time but I want success for them. I'm more a child of the Golden Vision era and I'll forever remember the words attributed to Moores when he sacked Johny Carey in the Taxi. Everton fans deserve better and by God they are going to get it. We do deserve better and our current situation is as sad as it gets. We are broke and hopeless in every respect.
City were a bit of a special case and a once in a lifetime for UK soccer. Abu Dhabi wanted to promote Etihad, at the time they had money. City were cheap and they had a new ground that could be expanded and that was pre-crediit crunch. They looked at Everton and took City, that is what I mean. I can't see a worse buy than EFC and if the board genuinely want 180 million then they will never sell the club, it's worthless
Brian, yes, you could never imagine Everton becoming one of those poor "other" sides; how the mighty have fallen.:-).
We all have the same aims for the club btw and want them to do well but I see the problems with the club as far more serious structurally and that a simple change in board and or Manager will do nothing unless the new board have hundreds of billions to effectively waste. For the first time I'm fearing for the survival of the club. If we carry on our current unsustainable path I see relegation within a couple of years (we have a lot of old dead wood in the squad) and I see nothing to stop the rot.
I'm so sorry for Everton fans too as they are the very best. I've stopped going because I live on the South coast and work out of the country most of the time but I want success for them. I'm more a child of the Golden Vision era and I'll forever remember the words attributed to Moores when he sacked Johny Carey in the Taxi. Everton fans deserve better and by God they are going to get it. We do deserve better and our current situation is as sad as it gets. We are broke and hopeless in every respect.
Eric Myles
365 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:24:35
365 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:24:35
^Martin, nothing is going to change with our current board which is why we need to get rid of them.
And stop propagating the myth of 'hundreds of billions' needed, unless you're talking of Vietnamese Dong.
And stop propagating the myth of 'hundreds of billions' needed, unless you're talking of Vietnamese Dong.
Kevin Tully
366 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:33:11
366 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:33:11
Paul #318,
"but I trust fully the people running the club ito come up with the best outcome."
Please give your reasons why you believe this to be factual.
"but I trust fully the people running the club ito come up with the best outcome."
Please give your reasons why you believe this to be factual.
Kevin Tully
367 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:33:11
367 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:33:11
Paul #318,
"but I trust fully the people running the club ito come up with the best outcome."
Please give your reasons why you believe this to be factual.
"but I trust fully the people running the club ito come up with the best outcome."
Please give your reasons why you believe this to be factual.
Jamie Carroll
368 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:25:19
368 Posted 09/01/2012 at 10:25:19
I can't see Bill parking there again like that... When he gets out of the car, standing there looking at his phone, he DOES look as though he's had a liquid lunch!
Paul Niklas
369 Posted 09/01/2012 at 11:09:20
369 Posted 09/01/2012 at 11:09:20
I trust in them because I have to, it's as simple as that. I do not trust the Blue Union because I don't have too, nor do they have any mandate to achieve anything.
This is the reality of it.
This is the reality of it.
Daniel A Johnson
370 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:17:21
370 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:17:21
You know that fucking man boils my piss.
Is there a more despicable arrogant man alive today?
Kenwright is a fucking disgrace
Is there a more despicable arrogant man alive today?
Kenwright is a fucking disgrace
Tom Hughes
371 Posted 09/01/2012 at 11:58:53
371 Posted 09/01/2012 at 11:58:53
Martin,
"What has happened for us is the shock of finding out that despite the illusion that many hold of EFC being a big club we are actually a small club without the financial resources to eat at the top table or perhaps even to be in the top division."
Only the board is small time... not the club! You are being a bit revisionist in your assessment.
"For me the board's major fault has been trying to maintain the illusion by borrowing and selling assets."
To the point where we are almost in administration..... This situation was predicted years ago and featured heavily at the Public Inquiry..... it's not new news, and certainly not a sudden realisation for those who have been asking the questions for years. Your also completely omitting to mention the fact that this club had the opportunity to solve all its stadium issues with the Kings Dock (almost 10yrs ago).... a deal even more lucrative than Man City's.... so they're hardly the special case you assert. We would've had a bigger and superior stadium in a better location..... Our fanbase is historically bigger than theirs, and that is the true measure of size and status. We are not plucky little Everton, yes we have fallen from grace but that has been solely due to the incompetence/impotence of the current custodians. ALL other major clubs.... I'll repeat that..... ALL other major clubs have managed to make the most of their potential by improving their infrastructure and investing in their team (and most medium and smaller clubs too). Next to none of them needed Billionaires to achieve this, so please desist with that old chestnut too. Many now enjoy the biggest average attendances in their history.... we are nowhere near ours. BK and his cronies have shown repeatedly that they have not, and cannot move our club forward..... That is the only real problem...... Therefore, they need to go. In fact they needed to go 10yrs ago, and we would now be in the Kings Dock realising our potential, and not having this conversation.
"What has happened for us is the shock of finding out that despite the illusion that many hold of EFC being a big club we are actually a small club without the financial resources to eat at the top table or perhaps even to be in the top division."
Only the board is small time... not the club! You are being a bit revisionist in your assessment.
"For me the board's major fault has been trying to maintain the illusion by borrowing and selling assets."
To the point where we are almost in administration..... This situation was predicted years ago and featured heavily at the Public Inquiry..... it's not new news, and certainly not a sudden realisation for those who have been asking the questions for years. Your also completely omitting to mention the fact that this club had the opportunity to solve all its stadium issues with the Kings Dock (almost 10yrs ago).... a deal even more lucrative than Man City's.... so they're hardly the special case you assert. We would've had a bigger and superior stadium in a better location..... Our fanbase is historically bigger than theirs, and that is the true measure of size and status. We are not plucky little Everton, yes we have fallen from grace but that has been solely due to the incompetence/impotence of the current custodians. ALL other major clubs.... I'll repeat that..... ALL other major clubs have managed to make the most of their potential by improving their infrastructure and investing in their team (and most medium and smaller clubs too). Next to none of them needed Billionaires to achieve this, so please desist with that old chestnut too. Many now enjoy the biggest average attendances in their history.... we are nowhere near ours. BK and his cronies have shown repeatedly that they have not, and cannot move our club forward..... That is the only real problem...... Therefore, they need to go. In fact they needed to go 10yrs ago, and we would now be in the Kings Dock realising our potential, and not having this conversation.
Tom Hughes
372 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:25:45
372 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:25:45
Paul,
So you trust the serial liar, who has took us the point of administration, sold all our assets, invested and delivered nothing.... yet you don't trust your fellow blues who's only sin was to voice genuine concerns?
I'm sorry, but that is ludicrous, and makes no sense whatsoever....
So you trust the serial liar, who has took us the point of administration, sold all our assets, invested and delivered nothing.... yet you don't trust your fellow blues who's only sin was to voice genuine concerns?
I'm sorry, but that is ludicrous, and makes no sense whatsoever....
John Keating
373 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:28:59
373 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:28:59
Paul. I know from your previous posts that you don't really care what others think of your views.
Your statement " I trust in them because I have to " leads me to believe you may have serious mental problems !
The statement is quite unbelievable. You would trust someone regardless of what they say, do, imply, even if you know it to be wrong ?? Even if it could be shown they were wrong ??
On that basis it is a total waste of time to debate with you. You are totally blinkered and deaf to any view other than your own.
Your statement " I trust in them because I have to " leads me to believe you may have serious mental problems !
The statement is quite unbelievable. You would trust someone regardless of what they say, do, imply, even if you know it to be wrong ?? Even if it could be shown they were wrong ??
On that basis it is a total waste of time to debate with you. You are totally blinkered and deaf to any view other than your own.
Brian Denton
374 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:38:32
374 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:38:32
'Ludicrous' is a mild word to use, Tom - I'd prefer 'odious'.
Colin Fitzpatrick
376 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:44:38
376 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:44:38
Tom #329
Can?t disagree with what you?re saying there, we all know what has gone on, most also realise that what has gone on hasn?t been conducive to the advancement of EFC.
Even those who disagree with the Blue Union?s tactics must acknowledge that the next instalment in the 134 year history of Everton will be vital, the appointment of the next custodians, and they should also acknowledge that the track record of the current chairman and his board doesn?t instil confidence that the process will be successfully concluded with the best interests of the club being the primary consideration? hence the simply suggestion that the process should be conducted by professionals who can display a competence in this field; Keith Harris not being one!
Can?t disagree with what you?re saying there, we all know what has gone on, most also realise that what has gone on hasn?t been conducive to the advancement of EFC.
Even those who disagree with the Blue Union?s tactics must acknowledge that the next instalment in the 134 year history of Everton will be vital, the appointment of the next custodians, and they should also acknowledge that the track record of the current chairman and his board doesn?t instil confidence that the process will be successfully concluded with the best interests of the club being the primary consideration? hence the simply suggestion that the process should be conducted by professionals who can display a competence in this field; Keith Harris not being one!
Ste Traverse
377 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:50:47
377 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:50:47
If Kenwright had just been a businessman who had only just got into football or a Reds like Peter Johnson,he would have been chased out years ago.
But the man cynically uses his Blue credentials to gain support and the deadbeats amongst our suppport lap it up.
But the man cynically uses his Blue credentials to gain support and the deadbeats amongst our suppport lap it up.
Tom Hughes
378 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:53:38
378 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:53:38
I agree Col.....
Where you there when they asked BK the questions on Saturday? If not what do you think of his performance on the video?
Where you there when they asked BK the questions on Saturday? If not what do you think of his performance on the video?
Stuart Gray
379 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:35:41
379 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:35:41
For me the biggest, most upsetting part of all of this is that our once great club is now possibly the most "nothing" club in the country.
(Excluding Everton fans) Nobody expects us to get relegated, nobody expects us to win anything. We are always last showing on Match of the Day. Nobody gets excited to see us play. Nobody speculates about transfers.
Generally nobody talks about us. Even when they see all the protests and complaints from fans, there will be a simple "Everton fans need to understand that BK is doing all he can to sell the club and Moyes is the greatest manager outside of the top 4. Now lets talk about Martin Oneill..."
It is the biggest disgrace that one of the most successful clubs in England is talked about less than Stoke or Bolton or Fulham.
Only 7 clubs ever present in the Prem and we can't get publicity?
Tottenham just have to sneeze and people masturbate over pictures of Bale.
That should be enough for BK to walk and give the club away for free if he loves it so much (and by free I mean with £50m debt and no assets to speak of)
(Excluding Everton fans) Nobody expects us to get relegated, nobody expects us to win anything. We are always last showing on Match of the Day. Nobody gets excited to see us play. Nobody speculates about transfers.
Generally nobody talks about us. Even when they see all the protests and complaints from fans, there will be a simple "Everton fans need to understand that BK is doing all he can to sell the club and Moyes is the greatest manager outside of the top 4. Now lets talk about Martin Oneill..."
It is the biggest disgrace that one of the most successful clubs in England is talked about less than Stoke or Bolton or Fulham.
Only 7 clubs ever present in the Prem and we can't get publicity?
Tottenham just have to sneeze and people masturbate over pictures of Bale.
That should be enough for BK to walk and give the club away for free if he loves it so much (and by free I mean with £50m debt and no assets to speak of)
Tom Hughes
380 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:57:54
380 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:57:54
Brian.... Agreed, I bow to your superior vocabulary.
Martin Mason
381 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:55:48
381 Posted 09/01/2012 at 12:55:48
Tom
Correct me if I?m wrong but did the Kings Dock Opportunity not fail because the club didn?t have the money? If not then it was an opportunity lost, if we didn?t have money then it was all part of BK?s illusion. I also feel that the club has been in decline for a long time now with the mid 80?s being a blip on the downward trend rather than an indication of what we could achieve sustainably. Yes I realize that many have been pointing out these things for a long time now but when I see realization I mean general rather than individual. Those who have seen the seriousness of the situation have obviously been correct but that doesn?t change how we got into it, who was responsible and how we can get out of it.
Like Paul above I give my support to the current management because basically I can?t do otherwise as I?m not a stakeholder of the club. I also believe that the fault lines at EFC are deep and not just dependant on the board and Moyes, I sincerely believe that we are as good as we can be given current resources and the chance of finding the additional resources that would solve these faults is very low. The current board owns the club and the BU are simply a pressure group who represent a minority of the fans and who have put BK and the club into bunker mentality.
Sorry, I meant hundreds of millions not billions and that is what we need to move ground, pay down debt and rebuild the squad. Whatever it is, surely no sane investor is going to pay 180 million to take it on.
Correct me if I?m wrong but did the Kings Dock Opportunity not fail because the club didn?t have the money? If not then it was an opportunity lost, if we didn?t have money then it was all part of BK?s illusion. I also feel that the club has been in decline for a long time now with the mid 80?s being a blip on the downward trend rather than an indication of what we could achieve sustainably. Yes I realize that many have been pointing out these things for a long time now but when I see realization I mean general rather than individual. Those who have seen the seriousness of the situation have obviously been correct but that doesn?t change how we got into it, who was responsible and how we can get out of it.
Like Paul above I give my support to the current management because basically I can?t do otherwise as I?m not a stakeholder of the club. I also believe that the fault lines at EFC are deep and not just dependant on the board and Moyes, I sincerely believe that we are as good as we can be given current resources and the chance of finding the additional resources that would solve these faults is very low. The current board owns the club and the BU are simply a pressure group who represent a minority of the fans and who have put BK and the club into bunker mentality.
Sorry, I meant hundreds of millions not billions and that is what we need to move ground, pay down debt and rebuild the squad. Whatever it is, surely no sane investor is going to pay 180 million to take it on.
Martin Mason
382 Posted 09/01/2012 at 13:16:05
382 Posted 09/01/2012 at 13:16:05
Stuart
It is an absolute tragedy but we haven't seen the end game yet.
It is an absolute tragedy but we haven't seen the end game yet.
Andrew Laird
383 Posted 09/01/2012 at 13:09:11
383 Posted 09/01/2012 at 13:09:11
Bill thinks he is in a Shakespeare play. my favourite bit is the beginning where he is playing "extra in the background with mobile phone"... very convincing.
Andy Morgan
384 Posted 09/01/2012 at 13:18:36
384 Posted 09/01/2012 at 13:18:36
Kenwright has been a director since 89... Think about the money swashing into football since. Look at the ground. Then he has the cheek to say the ground is holding us back from signing players or finding a new owner.
The NTL money should have been used to upgrade infrastructure. Instead he chose to bring back Duncan.
The Rooney money should have provided for Kings Dock. At least it would have been a legacy of once nurturing a great player. Instead it was used to pay off a loan or two and get further credit to buy Beattie.
In the meantime, the richest club in the world were given a 5-year interest free loan to be repaid when they liked.... That is betrayal. A custodian should be that first and foremost, a fan secondary. Kenwright has failed to assimilate that and has now woven a web of lies to try to cover for his poor decisions.
And that's before we even get into Kirkby, Fortress, other operating costs, Phil Green, etc etc etc.
The NTL money should have been used to upgrade infrastructure. Instead he chose to bring back Duncan.
The Rooney money should have provided for Kings Dock. At least it would have been a legacy of once nurturing a great player. Instead it was used to pay off a loan or two and get further credit to buy Beattie.
In the meantime, the richest club in the world were given a 5-year interest free loan to be repaid when they liked.... That is betrayal. A custodian should be that first and foremost, a fan secondary. Kenwright has failed to assimilate that and has now woven a web of lies to try to cover for his poor decisions.
And that's before we even get into Kirkby, Fortress, other operating costs, Phil Green, etc etc etc.
Peter Laing
385 Posted 09/01/2012 at 13:34:03
385 Posted 09/01/2012 at 13:34:03
Kenwright just cannot help himself in courting publicity or reacting to any given situation which usually results in embarrassment for both he and Everton. I believe that the multitude of lies and deceit that he has presided over is due to his narcisstic traits. I cannot believe that Kenwright did not have the opportunity to avoid this particular confrontation and his subsequent 'performance' to the camera was cringeworthy.
Tom Hughes
386 Posted 09/01/2012 at 13:37:12
386 Posted 09/01/2012 at 13:37:12
Martin,
No, the money was ring-fenced remember...? Otherwise why embark on the whole long process of gaining preferred bidder status by winning a design competition etc. Yes, yet another lie...... However, he was then offered a lifeline by Gregg who had been instrumental in helping him acquire the club in the first place. It would've meant a potential power shift..... and BK pulled the plug. all in our best interest ofcourse. It should also be remembered that BK has been on the board for much longer than just his tenure as chairman..... as I keep saying, compare what he inherited, and what he's done with it to practically any other major club. He's slowly but surely turned us into no-bodies, and only for Moyes would've been chased years ago.... and even sooner if it wasn't for his famed "true blue" credentials.
I am a shareholder, but do not consider myself any more of a stake holder than any other match going blue. My share money went to the previous shareholder.... not the club. My season ticket money and every other fan's is what helps keep the club running..... not my investment in a share cert, nor indeed BK's. They have invested nothing, and delivered nothing.... and that's the simple fact. Look at all the new stands, and whole new stadia all over the country.... most achieved at clubs with smaller turnover and smaller fanbases than ours. Then look at our blue gravel and banners. We have less exec boxes than some conference clubs, and the corporate provision is tiny. BK and his ownership/management structure have failed repeatedly to achieve anything..... managed decline as Sir Geoffrey might have said.
No, the money was ring-fenced remember...? Otherwise why embark on the whole long process of gaining preferred bidder status by winning a design competition etc. Yes, yet another lie...... However, he was then offered a lifeline by Gregg who had been instrumental in helping him acquire the club in the first place. It would've meant a potential power shift..... and BK pulled the plug. all in our best interest ofcourse. It should also be remembered that BK has been on the board for much longer than just his tenure as chairman..... as I keep saying, compare what he inherited, and what he's done with it to practically any other major club. He's slowly but surely turned us into no-bodies, and only for Moyes would've been chased years ago.... and even sooner if it wasn't for his famed "true blue" credentials.
I am a shareholder, but do not consider myself any more of a stake holder than any other match going blue. My share money went to the previous shareholder.... not the club. My season ticket money and every other fan's is what helps keep the club running..... not my investment in a share cert, nor indeed BK's. They have invested nothing, and delivered nothing.... and that's the simple fact. Look at all the new stands, and whole new stadia all over the country.... most achieved at clubs with smaller turnover and smaller fanbases than ours. Then look at our blue gravel and banners. We have less exec boxes than some conference clubs, and the corporate provision is tiny. BK and his ownership/management structure have failed repeatedly to achieve anything..... managed decline as Sir Geoffrey might have said.
Colin Fitzpatrick
387 Posted 09/01/2012 at 14:04:43
387 Posted 09/01/2012 at 14:04:43
No I wasn?t there Tom but I spoke with all of them later.
Regarding the video, I see in Bill a broken man tbh. Not sure if he was ill or under the influence of something but he didn?t appear the same guy who put on those performances at the general meetings. The frozen look on his face wasn?t one of anger in my opinion; it was one of knowing that he had been found out.
He must have recognised the guys he approached and spoke to; maybe he fears that they?ll release further information from their meeting in the summer; don?t forget it was a three hour meeting and I think their report covers only about an hour.
Overall, I suppose he?s got himself into a situation where he?s no longer in control because of his personal debt related to his shareholding. I have no doubt whatsoever that when he set out to obtain the club through begging and borrowing he did so with the best of intentions; but his dream is now a nightmare and he appears unable to offer a solution.
There were other people challenged on Saturday; Robert Elstone was asked questions and, to be fair to him, attempted to give answers; but his insistence on using this magician?s assistant tactic, of this 85p in the pound going to Finch Farm explanation, only serves to increase suspicion.
85% of the turnover is £70m, the wages are £58m, the lease on Finch Farm is approximately £1m so that leaves £11m to account for; but it doesn?t, the other operating costs amount to £24m and the explanations are simply getting more and more evasive.
The latest is that they?re comparable with other premiership clubs and this is true except no other premiership club with a comparable level of ?other operating costs? saw these costs double four years ago and had them stay at that level.
So, despite record turnover and a threadbare squad, those with the sheer impudence to question why Everton have no money year after year, are directed towards the blonde bird with the long legs and dazzling smile that is ?85p in the pound.......?
Of course if we had AGM?s we could discover the answer to what this £24m consists of. It?s not that much of a mystery; you can work quite a bit of it out for yourself. Nobody wants to know the precise specifics; it just appears remarkable that nobody can answer the question, not even the chairman who thought it had something to do with ?David?
On Saturday, on the other side of the car park, Dave Kelly asked Bill for a quiet word. He asked him if he would consider reintroducing annual general meetings, Bill said, ?Not while the shareholders association is controlled by the Blue Union?. Dave then asked, ?That being the case, if I resign from the executive will you reintroduce them?? In response Bill just walked away.
There?s a clear dichotomy in this thread relating to people?s perception of what Everton is. Some feel that it?s a business, like Waitrose, and as such the owners are entitled to do what they wish and don?t need to offer any explanations to people who are essentially customers. Others believe football clubs are cultural assets and that the custodians are responsible for its wellbeing and owe a duty of care to their ?community? I?m with the latter and I?m pleased to say so are the local council and the Government.
Regarding the video, I see in Bill a broken man tbh. Not sure if he was ill or under the influence of something but he didn?t appear the same guy who put on those performances at the general meetings. The frozen look on his face wasn?t one of anger in my opinion; it was one of knowing that he had been found out.
He must have recognised the guys he approached and spoke to; maybe he fears that they?ll release further information from their meeting in the summer; don?t forget it was a three hour meeting and I think their report covers only about an hour.
Overall, I suppose he?s got himself into a situation where he?s no longer in control because of his personal debt related to his shareholding. I have no doubt whatsoever that when he set out to obtain the club through begging and borrowing he did so with the best of intentions; but his dream is now a nightmare and he appears unable to offer a solution.
There were other people challenged on Saturday; Robert Elstone was asked questions and, to be fair to him, attempted to give answers; but his insistence on using this magician?s assistant tactic, of this 85p in the pound going to Finch Farm explanation, only serves to increase suspicion.
85% of the turnover is £70m, the wages are £58m, the lease on Finch Farm is approximately £1m so that leaves £11m to account for; but it doesn?t, the other operating costs amount to £24m and the explanations are simply getting more and more evasive.
The latest is that they?re comparable with other premiership clubs and this is true except no other premiership club with a comparable level of ?other operating costs? saw these costs double four years ago and had them stay at that level.
So, despite record turnover and a threadbare squad, those with the sheer impudence to question why Everton have no money year after year, are directed towards the blonde bird with the long legs and dazzling smile that is ?85p in the pound.......?
Of course if we had AGM?s we could discover the answer to what this £24m consists of. It?s not that much of a mystery; you can work quite a bit of it out for yourself. Nobody wants to know the precise specifics; it just appears remarkable that nobody can answer the question, not even the chairman who thought it had something to do with ?David?
On Saturday, on the other side of the car park, Dave Kelly asked Bill for a quiet word. He asked him if he would consider reintroducing annual general meetings, Bill said, ?Not while the shareholders association is controlled by the Blue Union?. Dave then asked, ?That being the case, if I resign from the executive will you reintroduce them?? In response Bill just walked away.
There?s a clear dichotomy in this thread relating to people?s perception of what Everton is. Some feel that it?s a business, like Waitrose, and as such the owners are entitled to do what they wish and don?t need to offer any explanations to people who are essentially customers. Others believe football clubs are cultural assets and that the custodians are responsible for its wellbeing and owe a duty of care to their ?community? I?m with the latter and I?m pleased to say so are the local council and the Government.
Andy Drake
388 Posted 09/01/2012 at 14:07:44
388 Posted 09/01/2012 at 14:07:44
Two obvious thoughts:
1. The board is not trustworthy. Trust is not only about whether they are a 'nice' decent being (i.e he's an Evertonian therefore I trust him) it is also "Are they competent in their role and do they get results?" and therefore worthy of placing trust in. The Board performance (not DM) in the last 13 years and the financials answer that one for me.
2. It would be very interesting to get a professional and proper independent valuation of EFC. On the limited amount I know, the club saddled with debt, limited assets with significant operating losses would have little/no value. The nominal purchase price would be accepted as any buyer would have as a minimum to write off considerable debt.before having funds to invest in team/stadia etc. If the £150m is seriously the asking price, hell will have frozen over first...
1. The board is not trustworthy. Trust is not only about whether they are a 'nice' decent being (i.e he's an Evertonian therefore I trust him) it is also "Are they competent in their role and do they get results?" and therefore worthy of placing trust in. The Board performance (not DM) in the last 13 years and the financials answer that one for me.
2. It would be very interesting to get a professional and proper independent valuation of EFC. On the limited amount I know, the club saddled with debt, limited assets with significant operating losses would have little/no value. The nominal purchase price would be accepted as any buyer would have as a minimum to write off considerable debt.before having funds to invest in team/stadia etc. If the £150m is seriously the asking price, hell will have frozen over first...
Paul Niklas
389 Posted 09/01/2012 at 14:49:13
389 Posted 09/01/2012 at 14:49:13
Ahhh,
Thats it the government and the local council believe its a cultural asset, more reason for people like me to believe the former.
To be fair, that's the fairy tale and no doubt what we would all like; reality says very different ? try telling Manchester City and Chelsea that... or indeed any other club chairman. The government and local council have no money involved, therefore very easy to say, I am afraid.
Thats it the government and the local council believe its a cultural asset, more reason for people like me to believe the former.
To be fair, that's the fairy tale and no doubt what we would all like; reality says very different ? try telling Manchester City and Chelsea that... or indeed any other club chairman. The government and local council have no money involved, therefore very easy to say, I am afraid.
Stephen Kenny
390 Posted 09/01/2012 at 14:58:26
390 Posted 09/01/2012 at 14:58:26
Colin,
Do you believe Bill's debt is a similar amount to what he would recoup should the club be sold for anything near his asking price confirmed by Keith Harris?
Do you believe Bill's debt is a similar amount to what he would recoup should the club be sold for anything near his asking price confirmed by Keith Harris?
Colin Fitzpatrick
391 Posted 09/01/2012 at 15:29:13
391 Posted 09/01/2012 at 15:29:13
Paul #345
Your post just confirms your ignorance of what the Government thinks about the football industry and also confirms that you have little understanding of the political landscape of Liverpool. Keep sniping away if that?s what you?re happy with but as far as I?m concerned your ill timed and ludicrous post on the eve of the Blue Union?s release of the details of their meeting with Bill means that nobody I know really takes that much notice of you. Ten out of ten for tenacity though, I?ll give you that.
Stephen #346
I have no idea what Bill?s debt is tbh. He?s borrowed money to obtain his shares, presumably he needs to pay this back or maybe there was another arrangement? Nobody really knows but I?d be surprised if anybody in their right mind would hand over a penny to the incumbents for the club; it?s been devastated and has been left to go to wrack and ruin and this is what concerns me; what type of owner will the desperados of the boardroom find?
Your post just confirms your ignorance of what the Government thinks about the football industry and also confirms that you have little understanding of the political landscape of Liverpool. Keep sniping away if that?s what you?re happy with but as far as I?m concerned your ill timed and ludicrous post on the eve of the Blue Union?s release of the details of their meeting with Bill means that nobody I know really takes that much notice of you. Ten out of ten for tenacity though, I?ll give you that.
Stephen #346
I have no idea what Bill?s debt is tbh. He?s borrowed money to obtain his shares, presumably he needs to pay this back or maybe there was another arrangement? Nobody really knows but I?d be surprised if anybody in their right mind would hand over a penny to the incumbents for the club; it?s been devastated and has been left to go to wrack and ruin and this is what concerns me; what type of owner will the desperados of the boardroom find?
Eric Myles
392 Posted 10/01/2012 at 01:16:50
392 Posted 10/01/2012 at 01:16:50
^Colin, didn't Kenwright borrow the money for his shares from his bessie mates missus Anita Gregg?
Now considering that the Greggs sold their shares I would be sure that they would also have requested Kenwright to repay his debt to them.
And who was it that paid the Greggs for their shares? Maybe the same person paid off Kenwright's debt to them also?
Now considering that the Greggs sold their shares I would be sure that they would also have requested Kenwright to repay his debt to them.
And who was it that paid the Greggs for their shares? Maybe the same person paid off Kenwright's debt to them also?
Martin Mason
393 Posted 10/01/2012 at 02:12:21
393 Posted 10/01/2012 at 02:12:21
Colin
Surely a football club is a PLC run for the benefit only of its shareholders and not in any way a cultural asset for the community. As a club it would be but it isn't a club.
Surely a football club is a PLC run for the benefit only of its shareholders and not in any way a cultural asset for the community. As a club it would be but it isn't a club.
Colin Fitzpatrick
394 Posted 10/01/2012 at 06:31:09
394 Posted 10/01/2012 at 06:31:09
Martin,
You've used the capitalised version of PLC which is normally used for Public Limited Company rather than private limited company which of course Everton is. There's a change in thinking taken place recently which, whilst I understand is anathema to some people, they'd better get used to it!!
This is the government report issued three months ago:
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm82/8207/8207.pdf
As a demonstration of this here's a recording of a BBC broadcast that features Christian Purslow on the very subject. It's a demonstration of how people are going to have to come to terms with this shift in thinking; the irony about this is that Purslow wasn't interested when he was initially approached about the Football Quarter but now that he understands which way the wind is blowing he's all for it!!
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/5live/5lspecials/5lspecials_20111214-2325b.mp3
You've used the capitalised version of PLC which is normally used for Public Limited Company rather than private limited company which of course Everton is. There's a change in thinking taken place recently which, whilst I understand is anathema to some people, they'd better get used to it!!
This is the government report issued three months ago:
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm82/8207/8207.pdf
As a demonstration of this here's a recording of a BBC broadcast that features Christian Purslow on the very subject. It's a demonstration of how people are going to have to come to terms with this shift in thinking; the irony about this is that Purslow wasn't interested when he was initially approached about the Football Quarter but now that he understands which way the wind is blowing he's all for it!!
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/5live/5lspecials/5lspecials_20111214-2325b.mp3
Zack Yusof
395 Posted 10/01/2012 at 07:32:08
395 Posted 10/01/2012 at 07:32:08
Gents, nip over to Blue Kipper ( read EFC's unofficial publicity arm) and have a read of their thread regarding this incident and BU's subsequent statement..
it beggars belief
http://www.bluekipper.com/news/13-misc__news/3785-blue_union_statement.html
it beggars belief
http://www.bluekipper.com/news/13-misc__news/3785-blue_union_statement.html
Andrew Laird
396 Posted 10/01/2012 at 08:27:16
396 Posted 10/01/2012 at 08:27:16
Bluekipper = the non - thinking person's Everton website. Reading all those comments you would think Kenwright was Jesus reincarnate.
Colin Fitzpatrick
397 Posted 10/01/2012 at 10:57:17
397 Posted 10/01/2012 at 10:57:17
To be fair to Kipper Andrew, their forum, with much greater numbers, has the majority voicing the opposing view. It?s what happens when you offer the opportunity to people to post with no registration; I think we can all work out what?s happening there ;-)
Andrew Laird
398 Posted 10/01/2012 at 11:16:13
398 Posted 10/01/2012 at 11:16:13
Fair enough Colin, I find the website far too trite, far too EFC cosy. More than one of the comments from the page linked in #353 tell us that Bill is a blue... I could make another four letter word that would describe him better.
Martin Mason
399 Posted 10/01/2012 at 11:21:31
399 Posted 10/01/2012 at 11:21:31
Colin, thanks for the links. I've read the paper and whilst it talks about supporter ownership and supporter representation on the boards trhese are just options that may be adopted. There is nothing about clubs having to meet the demands of unelected and unmandated pressure groups. I completely agree with supporter ownership and trusts because then the supporters are genuine stakeholders and their views must be heard. It does say though that no legislation is likely.
I believe that the situation at Everton is very serious now and having watched that video clip of BK I'm sure now. He looks wrecked. I'm interested to see how the Everton Trust works out, I'm sure that this is the way forward and I for one would contribute provided the Trust was represented at Board level.
I also firmly believe now that protesting is going to do nothing, a lot of club's supporters are doing it and having no influence whatsoever.
I believe that the situation at Everton is very serious now and having watched that video clip of BK I'm sure now. He looks wrecked. I'm interested to see how the Everton Trust works out, I'm sure that this is the way forward and I for one would contribute provided the Trust was represented at Board level.
I also firmly believe now that protesting is going to do nothing, a lot of club's supporters are doing it and having no influence whatsoever.
Colin Fitzpatrick
400 Posted 10/01/2012 at 12:37:19
400 Posted 10/01/2012 at 12:37:19
Thanks Martin for taking the time to read the document.
There?s a lot of pressure being applied by the Government for the football industry so sort itself out; yes they?re recommendations at the moment but things will begin to change by March if they don?t start moving in the right direction.
Supporter involvement is now part of the UEFA licensing platform. Some clubs think they can pay lip service to this; they can?t, it will happen and it will be taken seriously whether the clubs like it or not.
The trust is a great idea and I hope it gets off the ground, so to speak! We can?t go on like this. I?m convinced Bill Kenwright set out with the best of intentions but due to not having the resources the situation has become his nightmare; I agree with you he looks wrecked.
There?s a lot of pressure being applied by the Government for the football industry so sort itself out; yes they?re recommendations at the moment but things will begin to change by March if they don?t start moving in the right direction.
Supporter involvement is now part of the UEFA licensing platform. Some clubs think they can pay lip service to this; they can?t, it will happen and it will be taken seriously whether the clubs like it or not.
The trust is a great idea and I hope it gets off the ground, so to speak! We can?t go on like this. I?m convinced Bill Kenwright set out with the best of intentions but due to not having the resources the situation has become his nightmare; I agree with you he looks wrecked.
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1 Posted 07/01/2012 at 16:32:37
But one off marches every few months don't do the trick. Learn from the Occupy protesters. The way you get media attention for your cause is continuous pressure and continuous exposure. A few marches here and there is too easy to ignore. Continuous protests every match is the only way to get the attention that is needed from the media.