- Toffeeweb - Season 2011-12

Michael Mcloughlin
1 Posted 13/11/2011 at 12:20:12

I dream a dream, eh! Wouldn't that be wonderful. But alas, a dream it is... and if he is choosing between us then I think it will be Blackburn. But with £500 million... oh what could that do for the club?

? £80 million should sort the shareholders out.

? £100 million for the team. (It's got to be the team first to start getting people through the gates again.) As I have stated before I would love to see what Moyes could do with a decent transfer kitty.

?Then I am sure we could get a decent stadium for £320 million.

?Then, when another oilwell comes on line, we really start to buy...

Lee Mandaracas
2 Posted 13/11/2011 at 13:56:23

Sorry but I am getting bored with all the speculation of a buyout. Isn't the constant disappointment on the field enough for us Blues? What on earth happened to the Jain Group interest and, assuming it wained, where is their statement they promised immininetly several weeks ago?

Also, why have all the other Blues pinning so many hopes on that one coming off seemingly forgotten all about it already. God am I depressed!!!

Paul Gladwell
3 Posted 13/11/2011 at 15:30:29

I hope to God it's true but be prepared for a week of bullshit before the march:?

1. Kenwright will come out saying he would never sell the naming rights of the stadium, when he was obviously licking his lips when he saw what the inbreds did in the week.

2.We are speaking to interested parties, when he means a fella in a tree house in Birkenhead Park is closing on due dilligence.

3.We have the best manager in the world.

4.We would not sell Ross for £100M.

5.The Boys Pen.

James Morgan
4 Posted 13/11/2011 at 15:59:22

Paul, you're forgetting people aren't buying football clubs these days!

Steve Guy
5 Posted 13/11/2011 at 16:53:22

Is the title here a deliberate play on words, or some sort of Freudian slip, or just a typo ?

Having said that, I can't see why anyone would throw money at the Chicken Farmers when they could take on a Club like ours instead. Oops I forgot.... BS Billy will no doubt find a good reason why a Billionaire from Qatar doesn't have the Club's best interests at heart.

Can't wait for the spin masters at the Club to carry on the previous weeks' good work in the lead up to the BU march....."BS factor 9 Dr Spock....... I mean Ross" I'll try Cap'n Bill, but ah dinnae think they'll take it the noo, the BS crystals are worn oot"

That said, it's most likely rollocks anyway.

Michael Kenrick
6 Posted 13/11/2011 at 17:53:04

Hehe... a bit of all three, Steve. It started off as a typo (I did mean "plaything")... but then I thought about the play on words and went with it.

I'm all over the map on this: I hate what we've become... but I hate what City have become... yet if we could emulate City and get back up where we belong, I don't think I'd be complaining ? even if Moyes was still the manager!

If he gives Billy his payday, that will be unjust reward for decimating us financially, but if he's gonna give me £4½k for my single solitary share, I'm all for it!!!

Yet I can't understand why Sheikh Tamim or anyone would buy us ? especially if the Uefa rules are going to limit their spending on players.

Robert Daniels
7 Posted 13/11/2011 at 18:05:49

Arab Crown Prince is interested in us, but the price is putting him off?

Let go if you love the club..............Bill.

Adam Bennett
8 Posted 13/11/2011 at 18:46:54

Where have the three interested parties before the last march disappeared to?

These stories are so predictable is embarrassing.

What?s worse is the fact that Rossy and Co. honestly believe we'll all fall for it....... again.

Trevor Mackie
9 Posted 13/11/2011 at 19:18:50

Trouble is it's nailed on whats going to happen - we'll end up with at best 2nd tier financial muscle amidst huge fanfare like the Yanks at Villa and Liverpool.

Knowing zip about football they'll employ Moyes because all the bone idle nose in trough pundits say so and he'll blow the dowry on leaden footed "good eggs".

The equivalent Randy Lerner or John Henry will discreetly backtrack with sound bites from an american version of Elstone talking middle management shite which translated means:

"fuck me - didn't expect to blow 100 million like that" and the piggy bank locked.

Get a new manager who doesn't look like he needs oxygen - this fella's a dud

Nick Entwistle
10 Posted 13/11/2011 at 19:29:56

If he was going to buy Utd he's not going to give Everton the level of finance Villa and the Shite have not enjoyed.
Those Arabs are all for show. You buy a Veyron, big deal. Get it gold plated and people start to look.
Will it happen though? Paper talk...

Tony Twist
11 Posted 13/11/2011 at 21:14:19

What a Christmas prezzie that would be, financial security, possibly some smart signings in January and the team with a spring in their every step. Might shut up the noisy neighbours also.......It's pie in the sky! Never mind.

Gerry Morrison
12 Posted 14/11/2011 at 04:20:28

Confucius say: Careful what you wish for. (Old Bootle proverb.)

Michael Parrington
13 Posted 14/11/2011 at 05:18:40

Reading the actual article makes it sound like a load of bollocks really. Typical journalist with not much to write about this weekend.

I'll start believing in santa again if it happens though.

Russell Buckley
14 Posted 14/11/2011 at 06:20:57

Have no faith in this story at all but...if we did end up becoming the next Chelsea or City at least being a powerful and wealthy club isn't completely out of character for Everton.

In a way it would be a return to our glorious past. We have a great history but a lot of that success can be linked back to when Everton actually could pay for whoever they pleased.

At least other fans couldn't rubbish Everton as a small club that is buying trophies. We would be the big old club that got a heart transplant.

Liu Weixian
15 Posted 14/11/2011 at 06:49:27

The day this crown prince bought Everton would be the day I won the first prize in the state lottery.

Phil Martin
16 Posted 14/11/2011 at 07:11:58

I agree with Russell. Very few say MUFC have bought their titles, yet they've cherry picked the best players from rival clubs for years because they had the biggest bank balance. If we could do the same. So what? We'd be a big club with big ambitions. Who wouldn't want that?

Wouldn't it be nice to imagine us taking the RS best players, simply because we can? Or simply just being able to buy a player for money?

It's probably all shit, but let's watch this space.

Steve Guy
17 Posted 14/11/2011 at 08:04:19

Phil. Who would you really want from the RS? Seriopusly, even if it's just because we can? Maybe Reina as back up for Howard. :-)

Russell Buckley
18 Posted 14/11/2011 at 08:07:45

Steve, I personally think he is a germ but despite that I think Suarez would walk into our team.

Paul Gladwell
19 Posted 14/11/2011 at 08:38:39

James, most clubs owners in the top flight are all relatively new owners, so maybe that's why the selling of clubs has slowed down. The reason we have not been taken over (if we listen to Keith Harris) is because the asking price is too much for a club stripped of nearly all its assets.

Shaun Brennan
20 Posted 14/11/2011 at 08:49:08

News enimating of takeover of a certain Qatari familly.

You'd think annother protest was around the corner.

Oh wait it is..

Peter Laing
21 Posted 14/11/2011 at 09:01:26

Watch this space... it ain't gonna happen.

Elaine Riding
22 Posted 14/11/2011 at 09:07:38

I'm surprised the 'Sultan of Brunei' hasn't been mentioned yet? He was interested a few years / protests ago??

Peter Barry
23 Posted 14/11/2011 at 09:05:15

We got whole squadrons of pigs flying over here too.

Ernie Baywood
24 Posted 14/11/2011 at 09:26:19

I might be the only one but I really don't want us to be a billionaire's plaything - no way would I swap with the Citeh situation. What's the point?

Chris Matheson
25 Posted 14/11/2011 at 09:42:20

Ernie, we are already a plaything of Bill Kenwright but he has neither the money nor the financial and business nouse to make a success of it. Give me a billionaire any day over Kenwright.

As for not wanting to be like City, well I understand that sentiment. I hope that in the future, the Premier League collapses, the Champions League becomes a knock-out cup again for only the national champions, the Premier League and Football League merge again, all so that finance is shared more fairly and genuine competition returns.

Seriously... But until that day, we should be able to play to the rules others are playing, so a rich benefactor would do me just fine for now.

Phil Martin
26 Posted 14/11/2011 at 09:43:21

"What's the point?" Ernie.

Are you fucking crazy? I would love to see us win another trophy before I die.
The problem is without any cash you're only ever going to be mediocre at best. You know this right, you're just kidding?

Steve,

Reina, Johnson, Suarez would all work straight into our first team. Christ, even Downing would probably get in to. Don't get me wrong I think most of them characters are pricks but in terms of ability (the first 3 anyway) they'd easily make our first XI.

Put it this way - when was the last time Everton competed with the RS for the signature of a top class player AND won?

...Howard Kendall?

...and Ernie asks "What's the point?" ...jeez

Paul Gladwell
27 Posted 14/11/2011 at 10:16:59

Ernie, City will soon win the Prem and have a very good chance of winning the Champions league eventually.

Do you think there is a single City fan out there wanting to get back to the good old days of being ridiculed by there neighbours were the only argument they had was about having more Manchester based fans?

I would give my right arm just to see us win the FA cup again and when I start taking my son I want him to see it too, to ever be in the situation City are in and watching that type of football instead of dreading every game I go to, would be paradise as the years of shit we witness is just not fun.

I have not watched MotD this season and hardly read the Sunday sports pages due to the shit we see, give me City's owners and we would all be dancing in the streets.

Marcus Kendall
28 Posted 14/11/2011 at 10:24:11

I'm with Ernie, soulless success is no success at all.

I'd be a hypocrite to support a zillionaire owner using us as a plaything coz I depsise the Man City / Chelsea model.

This is the sad reality of 'English' football, that's why it's easier to walk away...

Phil Martin
29 Posted 14/11/2011 at 10:39:08

So Marcus, what's it to be?

Walk away from football and Everton until footballing armagaeddon and the whole pyramid collapses - if and whenever that may be?

Or hope Everton get taken over by someone who will redevelop GP to its glorious past, and also build a team of players to be the envy of other club sides the world over?

...Yes, I don't like the City/Chelsea (or the United) model. As United have used their financial clout as much as any team over the last 20 years. But ask their fans if they'd rather be competing for trophies or in a relegation battle. Ask City fans after 1-6 @ Old Trafford if that was a "soulless victory". Ask Chelsea fans if winning back-to-back titles was less preferable to surviving relegation on a shoestring budget.

Paul Gladwell
30 Posted 14/11/2011 at 10:57:45

Marcus, every time I take my seat in The Park End, alls I see are fed up souls.

Ask any match-going blue how many times they have woke up with excitement of the game they are going to that afternoon. Take a look at how many leave early for the pub, some even at half-time... these lads would cream for what City have now and all those watching in the pub on the dodgy channel would come flooding back if we had what City have.

Dave Richman
31 Posted 14/11/2011 at 10:39:44

Nope..... I would HATE it if we had loads of money and we could afford to buy top class players. It would really be a shocking state of affairs to be in with a chance of winning things again. Imagine if we had the money to hire a top notch world-class manager and coaching staff...... too awful to contemplate......

No, I am much happier with no money at all, and an ageing / stagnating squad where we can't replace anyone. It's more preferable (or indeed the much vaunted "Everton Way", apparently) to pack the team with defensive bargains and try to get a 0-0 draw every week. Who the hell wants a brand spanking new 60,000 seat stadium when we can stay at the hopelessly inadequate Goodison once all that money has being wasted on the 'foreign mercenaries'.

Seems that some of us have forgotten that WE were once the 'Mersey Millionaires' and as such were the "Man City / Chelsea" of the day.

Facetiousness aside...... I ask you seriously (Ernie & Marcus) are you happy for things to stay as they are? Do you enjoy watching Everton these days? What would make you happy then? A slightly rich benefactor? Just enough investment to clear the debts? How much in the transfer kitty is acceptable then?

The way I see it is that we are either taken over by a super-rich new owner, or we are condemned to things staying as they are....... I don't see that there is any middle ground here, and I have to say that you must be completely nuts to not want us to be competing on a level playing field with the 'Big Boys'.

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum, remember?

Brian Denton
32 Posted 14/11/2011 at 11:01:03

Phil Martin, I think Ian Snodin had the choice of us or RS and chose us.

Marcus Kendall
33 Posted 14/11/2011 at 11:00:35

It's simple to me.

if Everton become a club I no longer respect, I walk away. If we turned into a Man City / Chelsea model then I'd have zero respect for Everton, in fact we'd only be Everton in name.

As for Man Utd being put in the same bracket, they are NATURALLY a massive club, they can afford to buy BIG because they generate so much revenue. They arn't being BANKROLLED by an individual, in fact their owners are the opposite and are leeches!

I just want Everton to have owners who can wipe out the debts and to basically give us a blank canvass which won't require the following:

? Us spending £250k a week on wages to individuals to kick a ball around.

? Us spending £100 million on players one season and if they don't work out then spend a £100 million on new players and watch those other £100 million players sitting on the bench/stand. I mean I couldn't stomach that kind of money wastage, especially with the way the world economy is.

? Us being referred to as a 'project'.

? Us getting a new stadium and it being named something like 'The Qatari Foundation Stadium'.

? Us having the said new stadium packed out by 'new' fans who never would support Everton now but only because they are 'rich' and 'popular'.

Maybe I just like tradition and I want to feel a connection to Everton; if all that happens, where's the connection?

So hopefully that answers your question. You're welcome to support whatever you like to support... if it comes to fruition and you get a genuine buzz out of Everton winning that way, then I'm pleased for you. I just think differently.

Marcus Kendall
34 Posted 14/11/2011 at 11:14:12

As for my take on Everton now:

I'm not a fan of Kenwright but I don't think he's the anti-Christ like so many on here do.

I'm not a fan of Moyes but I don't think he's as bad a manager as so many on here do.

I think we have good players... I really do; if they were coached properly, I think we'd have a very good little side capable of playing football the right way. It saddens me to see Moyes downplaying our players and that's why he has to go.

Chris Robinson
35 Posted 14/11/2011 at 11:24:22

You're all shouting in a vacuum, lads.

Assuming there is some truth in the various threads on this story, the Qataris want not so much a trophy club, but a club through which to create a team to win a trophy ? the Champions League ? before they host the 2022 World Cup.

If all they want is a vehicle to create a winning team, they will go for the cheapest option. They apparently value Blackburn at £25m plus debt. If BK values Everton at £120m plus debt, they can afford to double their apparent valuation for Blackburn, giving the Venkys a handsome profit, and still have money left over to buy 3 or 4 world class players.

Do the maths and we lose out... unless of course the Qataris do in fact want a club with a pedigree and real potential to improve for the long haul, especially the ground. We can but dream....

Paul Gladwell
36 Posted 14/11/2011 at 11:44:55

Marcus, here is a simple one: at present the very future of our beloved club is at threat, we are not a million miles away from going under, we are not a million miles away from relegation (it will happen eventually).
A new owner like what City have would banish these worries straight away and for them reasons alone I would not give two hoots about us being a rich arrogant club, if it meant these worries would disappear.

Marcus Kendall
37 Posted 14/11/2011 at 11:55:44

Again, Paul, I'm not telling you that your wrong to think that way, I respect other opinions.

I outlined why I'd walk away. I'd much rather support us how we are and even if we went down the leagues than become a Man City / Chelsea model for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

Success is relative to me, but the club's DNA is sacriligious. I just don't want to support a plastic Everton no matter how many trophies are won.

Paul Gladwell
38 Posted 14/11/2011 at 12:05:13

I understand what your saying, Marcus, and respect what your saying too, but will never agree, so fair play and leave it at that.

Marcus Kendall
39 Posted 14/11/2011 at 12:08:40

No worries, Paul

As I said, if you get a buzz out of Everton winning that way then brilliant, don't begrudge anyone that.

Even those City fans doing the 'Poznan'... *cringe*!

Phil Martin
40 Posted 14/11/2011 at 12:08:39

@32,

Brian, I think you missed the key qualifier in my question - "...the last TOP CLASS player..."

Snods, with all due to respect to the guy, was not one of those.

Phil Martin
41 Posted 14/11/2011 at 12:13:36

Marcus, do you worry that we'd become like those City fans just because we had money?

I'd like to think we are better than them, and even if we had millions to spend we'd still expect the same level of workrate and commitment we expect of our players today. I'd also like to think we'd win with grace and with style ? like we did in the 80s. I dont necessarily believe a big bank balance equates to an auotmatic loss of ethos or values.

Brian Denton
42 Posted 14/11/2011 at 12:21:12

Phil, actually at the time he was in some demand. And you asked specifically a player where we were in competition with Liverpool, so Lineker (to my mind a world class player) wouldn't count as an answer.

Quite simply we will never buy a 'marquee' player again unless something drastic happens to Premier League finance (unlikely) or our Prince comes along (equally unlikely?)

David Moorcroft
43 Posted 14/11/2011 at 12:03:52

Marcus,

The way the club is now is a total disgrace and that is ALL down to Kenwright. And yes, he is the DEVIL in disguise.

Everything the man does is detrimental to our great club's wellbeing. You say the club's DNA is sacriligious. Kenwright is doing everything he can to rip the DNA to shreds and it is all for his own bank account.

His first love is money; his second is the theatre. We are just a tool for him to make him money. Before anyone says he doesn't take a wage or any money out of the club, how on earth has his own personal bank balance gone up to over £11 million since he became owner of our club?

Before people say "but he is a successful theatre entrepreneur" ? he was in theatre before he became our owner and he wasn't that wealthy then. Some coincidence, that... isn't it?

As he likes to say, it doesn't take rocket science to work it out. He is a LIAR and a Conman who is suffocating our club before our very eyes.

Kevin Tully
44 Posted 14/11/2011 at 12:23:08

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/9361246.Rovers_set_for_fresh_takeover_attempt/?ref=mr

Apparently they have only offered 28m for Blackburn & to clear their debts.

I think people need to realise it's not just Kenwright holding out for big bucks - the rest of the board want to make a fortune as well. That's before we know about any silent partners.

You have to look at the evidence in front of you, no-one will buy us because the greedy twats want too much. They don't give a fuck if we cannot afford a single player.

As long as they can raise finance by either selling a player or two, or mortgaging future revenues, they will stick it out until their big pay-day arrives.

Brian Harrison
45 Posted 14/11/2011 at 13:20:02

Having read all the posts, I am at a loss to know what we do want. We have posters saying its all rubbish that is only in the press because of the march on Saturday by BU.

Then there is a group that dont want a billionaire Arab to take over the club, as it goes against the grain trying to buy success. I guess they were not alive When John Moores was our Chairman.

I would just say that I think it is terrific what is happening at City, because of their long suffering fans. Remember they have in the last 20 years played in the third tier of the league and still had tremendous gates. I would hope that if we suffered the same fate of playing in those leagues that our fans would have stayed as loyal as Citys fans did.

Brian Denton
46 Posted 14/11/2011 at 15:12:14

Brian Harrison, I was alive when John Moores was Chairman, and I'm sick of refuting the calumny that our situation then was analogous to City now. But to reiterate:

(a) John Moores underwrote our finances, he did not 'pump money' into Everton;

(b) With the exception of Alan Ball, the marquee players of that era played for different clubs;

(c) In the 1960s the League Title was won by EIGHT different clubs (Burnley, Spurs,Ipswich,Man U,Shite,Leeds, Man City,Everton.

Stop fucking rewriting history.....

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
47 Posted 14/11/2011 at 15:23:48

"The club's DNA is sacriligious." Oh lordy... (ignoring that it's not even the right spelling!)

I think that should probably be "The club's DNA is sacred"... almost the opposite meaning.

And what does that really mean anyway? The Club's DNA??? Last time I looked, it was hanging by a thread, despite the valiant efforts by the likes of the Everton Heritage Society and The Everton Collection (eternal thanks to Dr David France).

Nick Armitage
48 Posted 14/11/2011 at 15:37:22

I couldn't give a monkey's arse about whether we are plastic or not.

All I want is to see Everton being in with a shout of winning trophies again; I don't care if that is brought about in the short term by a massive injection of cash or in the long term by Platini's attempts to introduce competition back into football.

There has to be some light at the end of the tunnel, at the moment there is none.

Tony J Williams
49 Posted 14/11/2011 at 15:46:14

Exactly Nick, I have already had a vision of me dancing bollocko in my local and being barred after doing the double.

I also have a vision of some lonely fella in the corner mumbling into his pint, saying that he just can't celebrate it and it's a hollow victory......it just makes me dance more vigorously, which leads to the inevitable barring.

James Flynn
50 Posted 14/11/2011 at 15:17:05

Since our money woes are what they are, getting ownership with EPL-deep pockets goes first. Then fingers crossed they have a fucking clue.

Peter Laing
51 Posted 14/11/2011 at 16:08:27

I've had a look around the web and cannot find any credible link to substantiate this story, looks like the PEOPLE are using the usual old tactics of 'several clubs' blah blah

Ray Roche
52 Posted 14/11/2011 at 16:38:57

Brian Denton@
You've saved me the trouble of pointing out the situation when Moores was here, and also the suffering the City fans endured in their fall down the divisions. We used to say that "But for the Grace of God" . We were so nearly in that position ourselves and if WE'D gone down we'd never have come back up.

Steavey Buckley
53 Posted 14/11/2011 at 17:12:03

Blackburn were bought previously for J50 million. If someone wants to buy it again, it would still be a bargain for someone who just wanted to buy players. Everton? For J50 million, that would just cover the outstanding debts + + + + + = J500 or J600 milion.

Paul Kennedy
54 Posted 14/11/2011 at 18:03:47

Blackburn Rovers' owners Venky's have insisted they are not interested in selling the club. I bet Kenwright comes out and says the same about us.

Paul Gladwell
55 Posted 14/11/2011 at 18:52:00

Tony J, at least half of Merseyside would be doing the same with you, we can only dream eh.
Imagine what it feels like to be a City fan now? they are on course to eventually win the Champions league, something that we cannot even dream about, can you imagine the feeling? If these lads don't want to have this because its not what we are about then they are liars.

Ian Tunstead
56 Posted 14/11/2011 at 19:11:45

I'm a lot of things Paul but i aint no liar. As far as i'm concerned, i no longer enjoy football, the whole thing is corrupt, its not the same game it was 20 years ago. You wont see me supporting England either unless there is an Everton connection.

Everton are one of the few teams left in the top flight that are real which is why i still have an intrest and watch football. If Everton were bought next week and we moved stadiums to Kirby and gave it a name like the Venky stadium (where do you draw the line?) the name of the club might be changed as well. If we then went out and bought the top players in world football and the team was full of foreign merceneries then it would no longer be Everton in my eyes. I would start watching Rugby instead.

Andy Crooks
57 Posted 14/11/2011 at 19:38:13

Ian Tunstead, I doubt I've ever agree with you but I'm with you on this. Id' happily settle for Everton being as well run as possible. I differ with you on how this can be done. I believe that a different coach with a different board could achieve something special.
By that I mean the FA or league cup and maybe Champions league qualification.or at least decent football. That can be done without us being the plaything of a billionaire. Man City and Chelsea represent the opposite of why I am an Evertonian. Words I never thought I would say... well said Ian Tunstead.

Ste Traverse
58 Posted 14/11/2011 at 20:21:49

After 16 years potless, I frankly don't give a fuck how we achieve success. If it means a billionare backer, who bloody cares?

All this stuff about 'souless' Man City/Chelsea is just cliched rubbish.

I'm 35 so I'm lucky enough to remember the great days of the 80s, I want young Bluenoses to see an Everton captain with a major piece of silverware in his hands.

Lee Gray
59 Posted 14/11/2011 at 20:43:31

All I want is Everton to be great....AGAIN! END OF CHAT!

Marcus Kendall
60 Posted 14/11/2011 at 20:59:58

Ian Tunstead and Andy Crooks, its good to know I'm not the only one who feels that way, and to Mr Kenrick, just because your the editor on this site you shouldn't forget basic manners, sure I didn't spell a word right but so what? was it worth mocking me over? idiot

Marcus Kendall
61 Posted 14/11/2011 at 21:06:13

and Ste Traverse, its not cliched rubbish, its what I believe.

winning in any sport by not using NATURAL means is soulless, false, plastic

same as cheating, its basically financial DOPING. its the equivalent of taking drugs in athletics etc

Ste Traverse
62 Posted 14/11/2011 at 21:16:46

It is total RUBBISH Marcus. Soulless my arse. What the fuck is that meant to mean anyway?

You either join the gravy train or you get left behind. It's as simple as that. Football won't hang around waiting for us to catch up.

Marcus Kendall
63 Posted 14/11/2011 at 21:22:14

in football terms soulless is basically a club that doesn't use its natural means and instead uses money it cannot generate to make itself better by use of a benefactor

I had this conversation this morning, some fans think success is success and don't care how its achieved but I'm in the minority who wants Everton to stay natural and not use financial doping to compete.

I can't respect that, I can't respect the Premier League as a whole but like Ian Tunstead said earlier at least Everton are staying real and that at least keeps me going. When that changes fans like me will disappear to be replaced by new fans who will jump on the bandwagon because were rich and popular all of a sudden.

Ian McDowell
64 Posted 14/11/2011 at 21:22:14

Ste Traverse spot, whats soulless is getting beat every week watching shite football.

If we won 6-1 at Anfield I couldn't give a shit who was bankrolling us.

One thing I don't like to see is Evertonians mocking each other because of a difference of opinion. At the end of the day we are all fans and each deserve an opinion. COYB!!

Russell Buckley
65 Posted 14/11/2011 at 21:20:42

I'm with you Ste.

I wasn't brought up as blue living in Australia so I found them in my teens. I would have been to young to remember the 80s anyway so I'm desperate to see Everton on top again.

Money IS the only way. We can develop the world's best academy instead of buying players but that in iteself cost a bucket load. Even if we did produce talent like that it would only put us on par with the clubs that can simplay buy who they want.

Money isn't a dirty word in football. THERE IS NO SALARY CAP. Money is power in the EPL and thats a necessity for success.

Russell Buckley
66 Posted 14/11/2011 at 21:27:41

I really should stop drafting these posts in two seconds at work.

Peter Fearon
67 Posted 14/11/2011 at 21:58:26

Right. Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad bin Khalifa Al-Thani is looking to buy Everton, but just a mo, he says, I have to call the People and tell them about it first. When you work on a Sunday paper you look at the stories people have been talking about - why hasn't anybody bought Everton, demos at Goodison etc, and make up a story involving someone who probably won't stoop to deny it even if he hears about it. Then you choose a time when there aren't many real stories - the international break for example - and you run with it. Please. It is self evident bullcrap.

Gavin Ramejkis
68 Posted 14/11/2011 at 22:07:50

Agree Peter, like the three interested parties before the Villa game and first BU march they'll disappear back into the fantasy land playing in Chairman Bill Mitty's head

Ciarán McGlone
69 Posted 14/11/2011 at 22:38:06

Marcus,

Why didn't you stop supporting us whenever Murdoch started bank rolling us?

Marcus Kendall
70 Posted 14/11/2011 at 22:44:31

Murdoch? you mean Sky money? Thats a weird example, every club is paid by Sky

Ciarán McGlone
71 Posted 14/11/2011 at 22:51:46

Read your first paragraph in post 63.

What difference should it possibly make to anyone whether the money is gifted or not? we are already, like every other team in the premiership, spending obscene amounts of money.. usually funded by unscrupulous organisations which ultimately feathers the nest of already wealthy men and women.

The idea that this suddenly becomes a different scenario once another rich man with more money takes over, is contrived nonsense. If you buy into Everton as they are now, then your already sucking from Satans tit.

Flouncing off just because we change scale is laughable.

Col Noon
72 Posted 14/11/2011 at 23:11:54

Ciarán # 71

Nail on the absolute head.

Marcus Kendall
73 Posted 14/11/2011 at 23:31:53

you make no sense

Sky money is paid to clubs because the customers want to see it, thats clubs making money NATURALLY because the fanbase want to see live football

so again whats your point?

Ciarán McGlone
74 Posted 14/11/2011 at 23:35:05

Yes, of course Marcus. Everybody wants to watch us...and living off virgin island bank loans is essentially an honourable and sustainable financial model.

You keep on keeping it real Marcus.

Marcus Kendall
75 Posted 14/11/2011 at 23:42:50

what are on on about?

you don't even know my argument it seems

being bankrolled by a benefactor is totally different to a TV company paying for the rights to show live football!

If Sky were bankrolling us only then your point would be valid but the last I checked they were paying all the clubs in the Premier League (by the way I wish Sky would piss off but thats another story)

I repeat, I do not want Everton relying on a BENEFACTOR who spends money that we wouldn't be able to sustain as a business model. That is financial DOPING and also could harm Everton if the said BENEFACTOR decided to do what the Pompey owner did etc

It wouldn't be the Everton I've love for 20 plus years and it would just be something I would have zero connection too.

Your welcome to think otherwise

Ian Tunstead
76 Posted 15/11/2011 at 00:21:33

Ciarán, i dont get your point either. The sky money is the same as selling seats at the stadium, only fans from around the world can have their seat in their living room or at their local pub.

There is a difference between money made from selling seats, television rights and sponsorship which is all from within the game and money from oil or property which is a completley different entity.

Everton represents me, it represents my city, the day that Everton is not playing football at least within the Meseyside area without the name Everton and instead is representing or advertising some Indian or Arab company and with no local lads in the squad, it is no longer Everton. We might as well turn back the clock and not leave Anfield and Liverpool and Everton can become one team again.

Eric Myles
77 Posted 15/11/2011 at 01:11:36

Dave #31 (and others) read and take in what Brian #36 says. I too am a supporter from the 60's and at no time did Catterick go out and buy a whole team of the top class players in the country as City and Chelsea have done.

It was one marquee signing every couple of years, to suggest anything else is a great disservice to a great manager and his great teams of the time.

Eric Myles
78 Posted 15/11/2011 at 01:18:49

^sorry, should be Brian #46.

Jason Lam
79 Posted 15/11/2011 at 01:31:28

Who's never had a helping hand ever? Man up lads we all need a lift in this life. Whether you need some money to get through uni, start your own business, starting your own family and home etc. And when you can stand on your own feet you then become self sustainable. Manu have come a long way and can rake in all sorts of stupid money like listing on the Singapore stock exchange. Who's to say Chelsea won't be self sustainable in the future? Everywhere I look there's Chelsea shirts, shops and bloody academies with the astro pitch painted blue.

It's when Everton solely rely on hand outs like the dole then we should start worrying. I hope this doesn't ring a bell eh! How about we worry about getting bankrolled by some rich arab first, then think about self sustainability At the moment there is no opportunity but sitting on our empty hands.

Kirk McArdle
80 Posted 15/11/2011 at 02:04:41

If you took the Sky money away from our club we would go under. In my book they are keeping us afloat therefore bankrolling us. Like almost 60% of Premiership teams mind you.

If we do not have any change in ownership or in a business plan to generate money for transfers and wages we will eventually be relegated.

I hope the posters on here saying that they do not want to be bankrolled by russians or arabs do not come on here complaining about the current owners (not just Bill) and lack of funds being the cause of relegation. The current bunch of muppets have been trying to do things the Everton way fro the last 10 years.

It ain't working.

Is asset stripping the Everton way?
Is mortgaged up to the hilt the Everton way?
Is no transfer budget for the last 3 seasons (6 windows, might as well say 7 and just include January) the Everton Way?
Is loaning out players in the 1st team squad to reduce the wage bill the Everton way?
Is selling our history and soul to move to Kirkby the Everton way?

Fuck off if you thing the current twats are thinking that they are doing the best for this club that they possibly can.

I am all for change and it cannot come soon enough. But wait. Before a smart arse comes back at me and says "Do you want to be another Portsmouth or Leeds?". We are well on our way there with our current Chairman (here's a pic on a screen. Everyone clap) and the other "Where actually is Everton located" shareholders.

Tony J. Which pub are you going to do your naked jig in. I thinks you will have some dancing partners!!

Ernie Baywood
81 Posted 15/11/2011 at 04:36:35

Interesting discussion here (and civil, which is a nice change of pace).

Referring back to my post #24 and the responses to it, I really do see a difference between winning and deservedly winning. I know that ultimately we are all bankrolled by some rich bugger - whether that be by sponsorship, TV rights, or a rich Sheik throwing notes around. I won't claim there is a clear line that I wouldn't want us to cross and at the moment I haven't a clue where it is. What I'm fairly sure about is that I think City are across that line.

I think everyone probably has a line. What if the title was just awarded to the highest bidder - would you still celebrate? What if it was just to whoever had the highest revenue? Then start stepping down from the ludicrous to the plain unfair - what if it can be bought by simply having squillions more than the rest?

I don't know, I might be out of date, a realist, and idealist, or a masochist, but I took real pride in the way we built our team over the last 5 or 6 years and I'd sit through some dross to see us take that route again. Buy them fairly young, develop, sell, buy, improve the team and keep a core together. We really weren't a million miles away from cracking the 4 - in fact that Spurs did it was a joke - we had the better team and I can't excuse Moyes for that failing.

Of course what we were aiming for was the Champions League and the riches it can bring. I hate the CL structure and payout. It's ruining the game - but I wanted to be a part of it. Which I'm aware makes me a massive hypocrite.

Could you really stand being this club... http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/12/manchester-city-bluffers-guide

Stuart Gray
82 Posted 15/11/2011 at 06:31:53

Damn right I'd celebrate if we bought the title. Everton is in my blood and anyone who says they wouldn't feel great about this is deluded. You won't be able to stop feeling great and excited.

And from what I understand about what's happened at PSG and City, they've been able to invest massively in the complete structure - including youth development.

I pray it happens, I hope Moyes is given a chance to see if he really can cop it and I'll enjoy the drama - not "who are we going to sell this transfer window" but "who are we going to buy" How wonderful

Ciarán McGlone
83 Posted 15/11/2011 at 10:40:11

Ok Ian, i'll indulge you..

Firstly, the Sky point was only one of my points.

We do not get a representative slice of the sky money dependant on our viewers. What we get is a social handout from the Premier league via Sky...We would not be able to get anywhere near the fugures we currently get if we went alone (and neither would we be able to do it anyway as we don't have the infrastructure).

Liverpool were of course right when they suggested they do not get a representative slice of the pie according to their support and viewers. We effectively get subsidised by the premier league...A subsidy that if it was removed would leave us insolvent.

If you don't get the relevance of that point to Marcus' little huff, then I really can't help you...

As for the other points I was making...We are a coporate entity who riase capital from various nefarious sources. It's a litte late to be developing a bout of the principles.

I've alos yet to hear Marcus explain why being bankrolled is any different than our current robbing 'Peter to pay Paul' financial model..Why does it make any difference to him where (subject to the obvious caveats of robbing banks and running a sweatshop) the money comes from that underpins our club?

All he's provided so for is some wishy washy and soppy bollocks about it no longer being 'the real Everton'...

Richard Dodd
84 Posted 15/11/2011 at 10:49:35

Gavin #68. You are dead right, mate! I'm being fed so many `pot-boilers`, I`m becoming as cynical as you!

Believe it only when it happens ? and then be disapointed by the outcome.

Ian Tunstead
85 Posted 15/11/2011 at 12:01:43

Ciarán, as i said in post 56, it's a question of where you draw the line. The sky money is still football related. I personally draw the line at money being used that is from outside the 'football industry' ie oil money. If you are happy for Everton to spend someones oil money then fine.

Where do you draw the line Ciarán? If a Man City type came in for us and offered £1 billion to spend but they wanted to re-name the stadium to the Etihad or the name of the club tor move the club to London, at what point do you say keep your money?

Marcus Kendall
86 Posted 15/11/2011 at 12:32:28

My little huff? haha!

And to answer your question Ciaran, Ian Tunstead has said it more elequently as I ever could but TV money and a benefactor are completely different. I know your not stupid enough to see differently but it seems you like to debate all the same.

And how do you know how many Everton fans across the world want to watch us on TV? Maybe were getting more money than is required, maybe were getting what we deserve, maybe even were getting screwed! Unless you have the figures of how many matches Evertonians over the world watch on Sky TV you have no point with that argument

Brian Denton
87 Posted 15/11/2011 at 12:49:42

See if you can find my post a few weeks ago called 'My Grandfather's Axe' which discusses the issue of when Everton would cease to be Everton in some fine philospohical exchanges !

Ciarán McGlone
88 Posted 15/11/2011 at 12:46:34

Oh right Ian, so you only advocate using football related income then ....so where exactly do you stand on borrowing from banks? Using Equity firms? floating on the stock exhange? raising captial through share issue? Taking enabling funds from coprorate rent? Advertising?

Football related?
As for teh suggestion that I have to draw a line - I don't have to draw a line at all...that's a nonsense proposition.

Marcus...I explained the Sky analogy to you, if you don't accept the explanation then thats your prerogative. By the way, the figures for audiences of foreign subscription services have been around for many years. Do a bit of research.

Marcus Kendall
89 Posted 15/11/2011 at 12:55:12

Ciaran

I'm not sure why I'm replying because were on such a different page here but here goes

BBC and ITV were getting live football in this country before Sky came along by agreeing with each other to not get into a bargain war so they got English football on the cheap.

Sky come along and because they wanted English football so badly they overbidded for it. I don't deny that. However Sky have done well with English football and have marketed it well so there is ALOT of demand for English football to be seen not only by people in this country but all over the world. Sure I imagine most wouldn't want to watch Everton, I struggle myself! But Sky are raking money in so they arn't doing any club in the Premiership favours.

I do agree the way Everton is run at the moment is totally wrong and thats why I said I want a new owner who will wipe the debts and get us to work to a SUSTAINABLE business model. This is my argument, I do not want a BENEFACTOR to use us as a plaything and to throw money around on tranfers/wages etc that if that benefactor withdrew from the club would leave us crippled ala Leeds/Portsmouth etc.

Also in my opinion its financial doping and is as hollow as winning in any sport by use of cheating. I couldn't feel anything for it. Not to mention what Ian Tunstead wrote about how it wouldn't feel like Everton anymore but a vanity project for someone.

I'll finish by saying that if you want Everton to achieve success and you wouldn't mind it done the Man City/Chelsea way then thats fine, your a fellow Evertonian so I don't begrudge you that

Ciarán McGlone
90 Posted 15/11/2011 at 13:47:40

Your repeating yourself Marcus....

Marcus Kendall
91 Posted 15/11/2011 at 14:15:49

whatever Ciaran!

Karl Masters
92 Posted 15/11/2011 at 14:28:13

Ernie Baywood nails it for me, ie there is a line that once you cross it, there is no turning back.

I guess it depends on the individual, where you draw that line. City and Chelsea are one extreme past it and currently we are sat at the other extreme. Somewhere in the middle would do me, and in that respect, I tend to agree with Ernie, Ian Tunstead and Marcus Kendall that we need to use any sort of benefactor or benevolent owner as a springboard to a sustainable business model.

It's easier said than done, of course, and only Manure really have achieved it in this country, but it's what I'd like to see.

Ian Tunstead
93 Posted 15/11/2011 at 17:14:25

Ciarán, you are going slightly off topic and have refused to be polite enough to answer my question even though i have answered yours. I didnt say you had to draw a line, i was interested to know how much of Evertons soul and heritage you would be willing to sell and for how much.

I dont think it is a nonesense either, it starts with re-naming the stadium, and in my opinion its only a matter of time before the name of the clubs will be changed or clubs will be moved huge distances from their origional location.

The bank example is a different argument as well, but if Man Utd owe the banks £800 million, and the banks are happy with that believing they can pay it back then if its fine with them its fine with me, the same goes for Everton, if the banks believe we are capable of paying back the £40 million debt then thats fine.