- Toffeeweb - Season 2011-12

Neil Humphreys
1 Posted 20/12/2011 at 08:17:57

For Gods sake. How much more are we expected to take. We are like the new West Ham of the 90's, selling the golden generation. If this happens surely even the die hard, head in the sand Kenwright aupporters will have to acknowledge what a dire state we are in.
I think that we have learned to expect the worst with this lot, wouldnt be surprised if offers came for Baines too,

Eugene Ruane
2 Posted 20/12/2011 at 08:39:54

Neil, if that's the way it is (AND IT IS) that's the way it is.

My only beef is the length of time 'negotiations' take and all the piss-balling about.

Stuff like West Ham's..

"Yakubu, we'll give you seven million"

Everton "No"

Them "How about 5 million?"

Put a price on them and say "Don't come in at a penny lower than X, if you do, there will simply be no response"

Let the media know THIS is how we do business and there'll be a lot less grief/rumours all round.

I personally don't think Rodwell is all he's cracked up to be but, I'd ask 30 million and when people screamed "WHAT!!" I'd simply hold up a picture of Carroll.

Tony J Williams
3 Posted 20/12/2011 at 09:04:10

We tried that Eugene, with the "I wouldn't sell him for £50m" - He was right i suppose, it wasn't £50m, it was much less.

It worked for Lescott but only after he sulked and helped us to a 6-1 drubbing and then put in a transfer request....always wanting that little extra cash aren't they? greedy feckers

Andy Macrae
4 Posted 20/12/2011 at 09:21:11

While greed may be a factor, the main reason in my eyes is that they have known that we have no future.

Stifled by a doyle of a chairman, offered a load more wages, winning trophies & no longer playing hoofball from a doyle of a manager.

Seems theres more reasons to leave than stay, unfortunately.

John Ford
5 Posted 20/12/2011 at 09:17:15

Havnt really got a problem with this. If we can get £20m and then see at least 50% reinvestment Id bite anyones hand off. The real problem comes if the cash is used solely to service our annual debt.

Selling our assets is always a worry, but I dont consider Rodwell to be in Fellani's class. Id be worried if Fellaini or Baines went, but Jack, prospect though he is seems fair game in difficult times.

I agree though, Everton never seem able to be straightforward about these things.

John Ford
6 Posted 20/12/2011 at 09:27:08

...and maybe retain Drenthe with the proceeds.

Andrew Fair
7 Posted 20/12/2011 at 10:48:28

Rodwell leaving would be a disaster. We all saw how good he was for England and thats playing with better players than he does week in week out. We shouldnt be cashing in so he can flourish elsewhere we should have him in a midfield 4 of Drenthe(Lw) Fellaini and Rodwell (Cm) and Barkley (Rw). Then use back ups from Osman, Cahill, Coleman, Gueye. Rodwell should be our FUTURE not Chelsea's. If I was Moyes and Rodwell was sold I would leave also. This club is a disaster, loan players coming in left,right and centre with no purchases, then youth leaving before there best years.

Danny Lizars
8 Posted 20/12/2011 at 11:07:08

If he goes (its only paper talk just now) i would well and truly be fucked off if the fee we receive isnt 100% re-invested into the team! There would be even more calls for Kenshite to go and David Moyes says that he has the final say on wether players go or not and if he sanctions this without re-investing then he can fucking do one up to Celtic or anywhere that would have him.

Tony J Williams
9 Posted 20/12/2011 at 11:35:14

"While greed may be a factor, the main reason in my eyes is that they have known that we have no future" - Not a chance Andy, the main reason is "Greed" with a capital G.

You nor anyone else will convince me othewise.

John de Frece
10 Posted 20/12/2011 at 11:47:03

Oh well- 20 mill for Rodwell , another 20 mill for Barkley
No more debt
playing in the championship

I'm off to slash my wrists

Stephen Kenny
11 Posted 20/12/2011 at 11:53:07

I wonder how that shifty arlarse Bill would sell this one as Jack wanting out, 5mins after he signed a five years contract and said he loves playing for us?

Over to you Bill!!!

Tony J Williams
12 Posted 20/12/2011 at 12:06:38

Watch this space Stephen!!!!!

Daniel A Johnson
13 Posted 20/12/2011 at 12:03:48

Look at Newcastle Utd

Sya what you want but tehy know how to sell players.

They dug in with Carroll and got £35Million

We would have sold him for less than 10

Danny Broderick
14 Posted 20/12/2011 at 11:59:10

Tony,

Just you keep telling yourself that our players are leaving us because they are greedy...
Arteta took a pay cut. He's now playing CL football in a top team.
Lescott won the FA Cup last year and will probably win the league this year.
Pienaar went to Tottenham, who will probably finish in the top 4 and be in the CL again next year, having already played in it last year (admittedly he has been injured for a lot of his time there).
Rooney went to Man U and has won everything since.

There will always be a few who are motivated by money i.e. Gosling, but I think these 4 (who have been our best players over the last 6 or 7 years) have clearly left us for ambition. That's the sad part - it's our best players who are bailing out. And look where they are ending up - they are not doing it for money. They can see that we have had our day.

Robbie Muldoon
15 Posted 20/12/2011 at 12:07:47

Just read this article on the guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/18/david-moyes-everton-yakubu-transfer-offer?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

Yakubu wanted to go to West Ham after a fall out with Moyes, probably in relation to the treatment of Yobo. West Ham were willing to pay £6m back then but Dithering Davey said no.

Everton's business model is to sell off the most valuable players on a regular basis to stay afloat. Rodwell may well go this window. Thanks Bill Kenwright.

Chris Matheson
16 Posted 20/12/2011 at 12:10:53

The problem is that although any money for selling Rodwell would be used to pay off the debt, the reason for the debt would still be there.

The debt would not disappear completely, it would come back again, presumably to be staved off by the sale of Maestro Fellaini or Ross Barkley.

Until we have someone running the club who knows how to run a club, this problem will not go away. It will simply be a question of who gets sold each year.

Robbie Muldoon
17 Posted 20/12/2011 at 12:18:28

It truly is a matter of a man with a massive ego wanting his train set all to himself. Kenwright loves his seat in the stand, he would never want to sit anywhere else. It should be made an uncomfortable place for him to sit.

At the end of the QPR game I remember seeing one or two fellas arching backwards from the suites clapping at Kenwright and sarcastically shouting well done 'Bill'. Kenwrights face was a picture and we need more of this.

The man is an egotistic show off, a beaut who gets his face on tele in the same way Louis Walsh does as a judge on talent shows. The man is an actor, a showman, and he is going to take this club down if allowed.

Stephen Kenny
18 Posted 20/12/2011 at 12:23:45

More often than not over the past few years Bill's face has been shown on the big screens at GP, why?

I'd love to know who makes this decision or if it's a sky feed. It's not that often you see Moyes either.

Denis Richardson
19 Posted 20/12/2011 at 12:13:41

Think 20m is a good price for him, at the end of the day every player has a price. Main thing will be what the club would do with the money (assuming he is actually sold).

On the one hand paying off a load of debt would help lower the interest expenses but would leave us short of another player (one of our better ones). Using the money for the squad would mean entrusting Moyes with a large sum of cash and going by recent buys its by no means guaranteed he would use it wisely (Billy, Heitinga, Fellaini (IMO not worth 15m)).

Am not sure what the best would be. Maybe use half to pay down debt use the other half to tie Drenthe down to a long term contract and look to bring in 1-2 players to increase the squad size. Also Jan not the best time of year for transfers.

Will let this one play out, doubt Chelsea will blow 20m on Rodwell anyway.

Tony J Williams
20 Posted 20/12/2011 at 13:06:03

and Danny you keep telling yourself that the mercenary nature of footballers is just a fallacy.

Out of the players you have mentioned, only one left for a paycut.

Lescott was constantly on the bench until Toure failed his drugs test.

Pienaar went because he wanted more wages and we wouldn't cave to his demands. He followed the money to Spurs and how many Premiership games has Pienaar played this year?

Not greedy, giive me a break.

The players who go for the football stand out because there are so few of them. To my mind, Arteta and Owen are the ones that, ro me, truly went for footballing reasons.

Rooney went to the most successful club at the time after we finished 17th but also took a massive pay increase too.

Not greedy????

Sam Hoare
21 Posted 20/12/2011 at 13:12:24

In the summer I would have bit their hand off for £20M but now I feel Jack is back on track and has shown glimpses, albeit not enough, of what he could become.

I still think that Fellaini, Rodwell and Barkley have the potential to become one of the best central midfield combinations in England over the next 5 years. If anyone is going to break up that combo, then they should pay through the nose. As such I wouldn't consider any price under £25M.

Alan McGuffog
22 Posted 20/12/2011 at 13:18:28

£20 million is tempting but, with our business acumen, I'm certain we would be able beat Chelsea ( or Man U ) down to a £8 - £10 million.
And just think what we could do with some magic beans as well.

Si Cooper
23 Posted 20/12/2011 at 12:48:42

Really don't understand some people's thinking over this. If Rodwell is worth possibly £20 million plus to the likes of Chelski and the Mancs, then surely that is an indication that he is exactly the sort of player that we should be desperate to hang on to and build a team around when he comes into his prime. Who are people suggesting we can go out and buy, without the same 'yet to justify enormous potential' label, who wouldn't have an astronomic price tag and humungous wage demands to boot?

I am hopeful that we can secure Drenthe without having to sell anyone to finance it. Obviously the club needs money and there must be a price you would sell at for any player, but EFC need to show as much ambition on the pitch as they can muster to keep / attract decent players. Unless there was £20 million being spent on additions, any sale of a young talent like Rodwell could only be a retrograde step.

Even in the current economic climate, Fellaini is easily worth the £15 million we paid for him, remembering that all player prices were inflated before the credit crunch. If there was as much money swilling around the game now as there was then, I would think it would be easy to get £25 million for him now.

I was at the game on Saturday and it seemed to me that the difference between what we got and what we could have had was directly related to a few older pros not being able to produce what once came easily, and a terrible fear of failure preventing players taking on reasonable shooting opportunities in favour of looking for a perfect opportunity or to pass (literally) the responsibility.

An injection of bravura or confidence is what is needed, and selling our best prospects will not achieve that.

Adam Bennett
24 Posted 20/12/2011 at 13:28:28

Yawn.

Barkley was supposed to be off to Chelsea, but then he signed a contract so the papaers have moved on to Rodwell.

The amount of shite that gets printed these days is unreal.

Colin Wainwright
25 Posted 20/12/2011 at 13:32:59

I think you're all missing the point. Rodwell or Barkley could go for twenty million or thirty or forty... Doesn't fuckin matter. Moyes won't see a penny.

Selling the future, to keep this disgrace of a board exactly where it wants to be. Kenwright out.

Chris Keightley
26 Posted 20/12/2011 at 13:28:49

We are in a desperate state; at least one of our assets will go in the transfer window. Do not be supprised to see us sell at the last minute Rodwell... possibly Baines. The money simply will not be re-invested, it will pay off our debt.

Everton are in a dire state: this is not the club I grew up adoring, it's a pitiful excuse of a club. Some league 1 clubs are operated better. This is the only year in memory when I simply can't be arsed, and supporting Everton is a task rather than enjoyment. The board as a whole is responsible, with a "sit on our hands and do nothing" approach ? how can the likes of Brighton (yes, Brighton!) look to have a better future? Embarrasing beyond repair!

Gavin Ramejkis
27 Posted 20/12/2011 at 13:38:35

As Colin has correctly pointed out, players sales are there merely as a stay of execution and to those saying it will pay off some of the debt, well look at the six players we got shut of last season and the annual accounts still show a loss ? despite the money they saved and generated ? plus the one off sale of Bellefield.

Within 12 months we would be at exactly the same point, needing not wanting a sale just to keep afloat for another twelve months. Everton haven't just hit the iceberg, we reversed back to twat it again it and made sure the leak was too big to ever be plugged.

Ian McDowell
28 Posted 20/12/2011 at 13:44:32

I have just read this on Sky Sports. To be honest if we receive a bid in the region of £15 million pounds I seriously doubt if the board would be able to refuse such an offer given the financial state of the club.

Tony J Williams
29 Posted 20/12/2011 at 13:53:23

Isn't he at Man U? I thought we sold him last year? No?

Paper talk. Who has mentioned the amount? There has been no talks so where has the information come from?

It's the 3 hat time again, a hat for the player, one for the club and another for a price.

Pick one from each and, hey presto! ? Today's transfer rumour....... Wankers.

Dean Adams
30 Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:36:31

Gavin Ramejkis

You say "well look at the six players we got shut of last season and the annual accounts still show a loss ? despite the money they saved and generated ? plus the one off sale of Bellefield."
That is not entirely true though, as the acounts were upto the 31 May so cannot possibly include player sales and savings on wages as they had not happenned at that point in time. So to correct the financials we sold players, making a large dent in the debt, hopefully creating a situation where the banks could see that if needed we could clear the debt with player sales. They are of course in businesss to make money and would not want us to pay up early as that would minimize the profit.
Sinking ship? We have hardly backed up to hit the ice-berg again, but that would not suit tha agenda of so many would it?

Tommy Hesketh
31 Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:44:45

Dean 30#

What you say is true however, the sales from the summer are offset against the Vibrac loan and that carries interest so in reality are we not better off just more mortgages on the club's finances.

Sinking ship is a accurate description of EFC, a cross between the Titanic & soon to be the Mary Celeste.

Peter Laing
32 Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:59:29

Three promising young players signed up on long-term contracts - Rodwell, Fellaini and Barkley. What other premier league teams can boast of such an abundance of young talent ? Kenwright over the summer talked about pleading with the banks not to kill Everton, the sale of Arteta in my opinion had all the signs of a stay of execution. One, two or all three of this talented trio are undoubtedly considered as the 'assets' that Kenwright repeatedly referred to, if we do not see a takeover happening soon then inevitable is going to happen.

Tommy Hesketh
33 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:54:13

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11668/7388863/Moyes-No-Rodwell-bids

Do these words sound like someone who doesn't want to sell one of his players?

Come the 31 Jan 2012 at 23:57hrs, "It was a good price for the lad, however it was a little late for us to bring in any replacements, Bill's said there will be funds available in the summer though"....

Ray Roche
34 Posted 20/12/2011 at 16:02:06

Eugene Ruane @2

Do you mean to tell me that you've GOT a picture of Carroll?

Alex Mullan
35 Posted 20/12/2011 at 16:07:21

If needs must I think if we could get 20-25m and reinvest 10-15m in a striker, its wise. We are relatively strong in centre mid, especially with Fellaini signing a new deal. Nev, Heitinga, Osman, Cahill, Fellaini, can play this role - we have literally got no one who can play up front now. Right now Everton need goals - swapping out a Rodwell for a solid goal scorer who will last us for a fair few seasons could literally save this club. You cant really be sentimental when your in the mire Everton are in.

Tommy Hesketh
36 Posted 20/12/2011 at 16:20:02

Alex,

Do you really expect DM or Bill to buy a decent striker with the Rodwell money should he be sold??

If this was the case why hasn't it happend before when we sold Peanuts/Vaughan/Arteta/Yak/Beckford/ it's because were fucked and the best we can hope for is a 2 month loan deal for Landon, exciting times at GP.....

Fran Mitchell
37 Posted 20/12/2011 at 19:46:39

Sell Bily, Jags, Coleman, Anichbe (I wish)Heitinga, Cahill, ok. I can understand that. They might make a few million, could pay for that striker we need and a replacable.

Sell Rodwell, Barkley, Fellaini or Baines. NO! If we have any chance of becoming a decent team, it must be built around these lads (and Drenthe if we can keep him). We have 5 very good players, 4 of whom are still very young and can become very very good players. Not many teams have a chance to build a team like we do at this moment.

Despite all the shite at the club at this moment, these are the bright spots that can actually change it all.

Karl Meighan
38 Posted 20/12/2011 at 23:51:06

If we could get 20m off Chelsea i would bite there hands off. Rodwell has been ok this season and nothing more and thats all i ever see him being a average steady midfielder.

I just dont see Rodwells big strengths as a midfielder, he dont play defence splitting passes he hasn't got a rocket shot he doesn't score goals for fun he doesn't commit defenders and go past them, he's getting better at tackling he's athletic English and thats about all i can muster for his strengths oh and he is young. I wouldn't be suprised if Wenger had about five like Rodwell and better but without any first team experience.

What were lacking in midfield is guile craft creativity and goals and even given Rodwells recent injury i dont see him providing any of them things.

Its probably a load of shite anyway as it was supposed to be Felliani last season who i would also be happy to get rid of if the price is 20m.

James Flynn
39 Posted 21/12/2011 at 00:38:52

Rodwell is 20 years old and ben living the "Next Thing" build-up for 3-4 years now. He'll be fine. Give him a break.

Eric Myles
40 Posted 21/12/2011 at 05:29:44

What Chris @16 said.

The last accounts showed an overdraft of 9 million and the reason we had to sell Arteta was because the banks feared that it would exceed 25 milion ths season.

That means we've got to find another 6 million from somewhere just to maintain the same level of debt.

Bye bye Jack.

Ian Smitham
41 Posted 21/12/2011 at 06:40:43

Read some articles in the paper today that Chelsea are looking to bid £12m for JR in January. The paper(s) seem to believe that other teams with deep pockets will try to out bid each other for him.

I am sure you are bored with my view that he and MF are the future of midfield dominance of the EPL.

Equally, the club's state of borrowing must have been massively improved in recent times with the fees due on outgoing player sales but also the savings on salaries. I have heard that we may buy a player or two in the next window and that there may also be a player or two coming in on loan. Pienaar maybe?

So, £12m in my opinion is ridiculous, but, God forbid, is there a price at what "our Jack" could be sold at and we feel that we have received good value?

Or, keep him at all costs along with a few others?

Alex Mullan
42 Posted 21/12/2011 at 13:45:02

@ Tommy 36

Yeah I believe they would invest a fair sum of it if they sold him. Why do I think that? Because there is talk that we have a little cash as it stands for Jan, so we are not that buggered that we cant use a bit of transfer kitty without the sale. I am sure the bank wouldn't be disappointed in recieving another £10m off us, even if we spend 10-15 out of the £25m (if we could get £25m).

Even Kenwright must now see we need a striker. If we went down the value of his 'inevitable' sale would be vastly reduced.

We didnt spend in the summer because we had no cash and when we did get a few quid there was about 5 mins left.

None of his matters anyway because I don't see us getting £25m. I don't believe Rodwell is a £25m player and I don't believe Chelsea require a CM that badly that they would go the extra mile, especially in light of the fact Lampard can't get a game.

Carl Peters
43 Posted 22/12/2011 at 02:46:29

Jack will definitely go... for how much is anybody's guess, but it won't be until the end of January so BS Bill can sling the money in the bank and tell us the same shite we heard in August ? "It was too late," blah blah blah... and we end up with some dipshit from the 26th division who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

Then, next year, when we're in the Championship, we'll get "Oh but we thought he had potential."