- Toffeeweb - Season 2011-12

Kevin Hudson
606 Posted 17/01/2012 at 23:16:20

I hope Wolfsburg snap him up; the proverbial rabbit trapped in the headlights.

Russell Buckley
607 Posted 17/01/2012 at 23:26:54

Well we sure as hell need a playmaker. I don't think most Evertonians have an issue with Bily as a person but he simply hasn't worked out. Whether that Moyes's fault or Bily not being able to compete in the Premier League doesn't really matter. At the end of the day we have a £9 million pound signing who can't break into our normal starting team. For a club in our finanacial position that's fucking crazy.

I can't see us ever getting full money back but even £5 million might be enough to get someone in like Kalou.

Tom Dodds
615 Posted 17/01/2012 at 23:36:26

Equally as fucking crazy is him never been played in his right position behind the striker. Yep, and having £9-10 mill round his neck. While on the dole.

We've seen Yakubu prosper after life after Everton, no doubt Beckford will, etc, but I won't go on about the PE teachers confused (at least) tactics or relationships with the players, the only antidote for Moyes, is to have a good partner in the dug out with him, Round epitomises the same lost, loser as him, he's like an apprentice ditherer.

Alan Irvine should be back with him, interacting like two car dealers working together and bouncing ideas off each other and both contributing to the pot of ideas and strategy from like minds, which was what they were both like before Irvine went to Preston, and we were fourth in the table...

Instead he stands there with the gormless valeter.

James Flynn
617 Posted 17/01/2012 at 23:52:35

Bily for £5 million? God bless and good luck. I believe you did your best Bily and harbor no hard feelings. You gave us that Man Utd game goal. You're just not an EPL-level athlete.

James Flynn
618 Posted 18/01/2012 at 00:10:21

Tom ? Laughed out loud. Fine rant.

Bily's just not good enough for the EPL.

Who's Irvine and where is he now that we're missing him so?

Jim Knightley
622 Posted 18/01/2012 at 00:48:47

What's amazing, is that with the smallest senior squad in the premiership, constant off field problems, the loss of important players and barely any funds, we are 11th in the premier league with a PE teacher in charge. Imagine if we had a real manager, we'd probably be in the top four again (Massive Yawn)

Really hope Billy goes, so we can add a playmaker or creative mid (or in a wonderful but impossible world, both). To those who keep going on about his position...He played left in Russia too, yet for some reason on ToffeeWeb he has become an attacking midfielder who never touched the left wing onto Moyes put him there. I'd personally like to see him utilised behind the striker, but then also feel he does not have the spirit nor the physical capacity, to make it as a successful premiership player. He will join a recent long list of the best of Russia who have failed in the Premier League, alongside messrs Arshavin, Zhirkov and Pavlyuchenko.

James Martin
623 Posted 18/01/2012 at 01:11:11

Although he's been woeful so far, a part of me doesn't want bIly to go because another player with technical skill we be leaving the club. Arteta, Pienaar, Lescott, Yakubu and now BIly. We have only Osman and Baines left who you can even start to say our good 'footballers' in the team. For me seeing just one of Bily's incisive passes (he only does about one a game) brings a greater thrill than the prospect of Rodwell and Fellaini playing their daisy cutters to each other along the edge of our area. The door to the school of science has well and truly slammed shut hasn't it.

Russell Buckley
625 Posted 18/01/2012 at 02:44:49

Bascially yes James the door is shut. Bily's technical skills are in the end useless if he isn't getting stuck in to win the ball back or at least running has ass off to provide an option.

Bily is one of the few guys we could get rid of for good money and not really miss.

If around 5 million is on offer I say take it. There is always potential to pull in a better version of Bily.

John Barnes
630 Posted 18/01/2012 at 04:25:19

This is one where the bank should insist we cash in.
The bank manager might even make a better fist of managing the team. But really, 5m for a player who will only play when we are down to the bare bones is too good an opportunity to miss. But our board couldnt run a sweet shop so Bily might get an improved contract!!

Steve O'Malley
634 Posted 18/01/2012 at 06:08:30

The poor lad has to go it's as simple as that. If I were Moyes, apart from resigning, I would make sure I kept Bily on the subs' bench because his valuation drops a mill or so every time he takes to the field. Forget about this crap that he is playing out of position, the lad is not cut out for the physicality and speed of the Premier League.

Good to see that both Beckford and Yakubu are scoring freely since have been set free from the shackles that are part of Moyes's management style, and don't tell me in Beckford's case it's because he is playing at a lower level. The lad might not have fulfilled his tracking back requirements but he knew where the goal was, as does Yakubu.

Alun Jones
638 Posted 18/01/2012 at 06:49:23

I have no issue with Bily going as long as the money we make from him can be reinvested before the end of the window. I don't see the point in selling him unless we replace him because we are then one more player light in an already paper-thin squad.

Jim on post 622, I think its slightly out of order to call DM a PE teacher, he has his blind sports and weaknesses but, despite all the other problems we face, it's probably because we do have a REAL manager in charge that we are not in free fall towards the Championship. Oh, and we did finish fourth no too long back remember...??

Dave White
645 Posted 18/01/2012 at 08:16:10

I agree with many of the posts on here, Bily is a touch a class who will no doubt go on to recover his form in the right league / set up...and it took me ages to learn how to pronounce his name!

But the truth is he just doesn't look like he's ever going to 'get it' in the prem. Much like Saha he looks like a broken man. I too hope he goes, but bear no grudges, I'd say he has been Moyes worst ever signing, given the price, even worse than Per Koldrup!

Tony Dunn
648 Posted 18/01/2012 at 09:01:26

Saw Alan Irvine at the Tamworth game,asked him when he was coming back and he just smiled . . .

Sam Hoare
654 Posted 18/01/2012 at 09:41:22

We absolutely must ship Billy. Can' afford a high wage asset sitting on the bench who could be sold to make way for someone who actually contributes.

Decent player, not cut out for Premiership. Take 5m and go buy a striker please.

James Morgan
656 Posted 18/01/2012 at 09:37:46

Is it me or are Russian players lazy? The above mentioned never seem to want to put a shift in. Maybe it's just left sided players!
I'd take the 5m and if it's allowed to be reinvested (unlikely) and I'd maybe take a punt on Maynard/Zaha.

Bob Willis
657 Posted 18/01/2012 at 10:18:29

Weir for Round?

Trevor Lynes
658 Posted 18/01/2012 at 10:13:54

Sam # 654
We need MORE than just a striker...we have ruined a succesion of so called strikers by the way we play....we scored over the past seasons far more goals from set pieces than by open play.
We need a top class PLAYMAKER, and a striker plus decent cover for Baines who has none since Lescott left.

John Keating
662 Posted 18/01/2012 at 10:29:59

If anyone knows Bilys address let me know and I'll drive him to Germany - free !!
I can't believe anyone would give 5 mill for him - apart from us !! Do the deal asap before the Germans sober up !

Paul Joy
667 Posted 18/01/2012 at 11:15:02

Tom #615
to play in any position on the pitch in the premier league you have to have some basics
control with 1st touch - bily traps it further than I can kick it mate no matter what position he plays.
Speed of thought - something he just does not have
Speed of movement - ditto

Do I need to continue?
He is not alone of course in his shortcomings in our squad but he is just not up to the demands of the premier league. That is proven.

A waste of £9M who may well suit a slower paced game and if Wolfsburg are offering money for him I would bite their hands off.

Neil Pickering
668 Posted 18/01/2012 at 11:21:42

@tom dodds. Sorry mate, that arguement for Bily in behind a striker just doesnt stack up now. Every time Moyes plays him he is consistently the worst player on the whole pitch. Also, wasnt he tried in centre mid the other week against a non-league side and stunk the gaff out?

I dont agree with that much Moyes does at the moment but i do agree that if we have to play him then he should play wide and nowhere else. His touch is turd, he's slow beyond belief, and he is terrified, so why would it make sense to move him inside to a 3 man centre midfield where the game is even more congested and physical.

He plays him on the wing so he has more space to operate in, and because when he loses possession (which is often) it is less damaging in a wide area than in the middle of the pitch.

Take whatever we can get for him and please lets stop saying he would be a different player if he played in his proper position. Not good enough for the prem, but good luck elsewhere. End of.

Paul Olsen
671 Posted 18/01/2012 at 11:51:35

Beckford is scoring freely?

5 goals so far in twenty something appearances. 3 of them in the FAcup.

Ummm, yeah.

Danny Burke
672 Posted 18/01/2012 at 11:53:02

Where did this myth come from that Bily should play behind the striker or in the hole? He played as a left sided mid in Russia and for Russia. Just because he has not lived up to expectations on the left wing, doesn't mean pushing him up behind our misfiring strikers will suddenly make him Dennis Bergkamp!

I think the lad does have ability but he's just not suited to our league. The odd 30 yard screamer doesn't compensate though for consistantly average performances. I'd cash in but only if he can be replaced, if not then get rid at the end of the season.

Gareth Fieldstead
673 Posted 18/01/2012 at 12:03:11

But would Moyes actually be allowed to spend the money? Even if we get near 5 for him how much does the bank want? Secondly what would we get for 5 million? Certainly not Rhodes, as Huddersfield have stated they are not selling for any price and they turned down 5 million from West Ham. Maynard not proven and he deemed the last striker he got from the lower leagues surplus to requirements despite ten goals, would Maynard come close to that? I think sadly we will be stuck with whet we have and hope that the club is sold as a premiership club in the summer and genuine funds are available then.

Eugene Ruane
677 Posted 18/01/2012 at 12:23:31

Really hope Bily goes so that.. .erm... well, he's not an Everton player anymore.

In fact I see TWO positives if he goes.

1) He's somewhere other than Everton.

2) Moyes won't be able to spend the money, therefore he won't be able to buy another Bily.

Are the clouds beginning to part, is that the... sun?

Stu Moore
679 Posted 18/01/2012 at 12:21:17

Moyes totally screwed up with the signing of Bily as he was not the type of player we required at the time.

I actually feel sorry for Bily as he (no matter what many people may think) has clearly got talent:

1) He is skillfull
2) He can see a pass
3) He has this nasty habit (not often seen by those in a blue shirt) of actually passing to a team mate and retaining possesion
4) He is willing to try and be a bit inventive with his passing
5) He has a rocket of a shot
6) His attitude is spot on

However, he also has his faults:

1) He is to slow to beat a man out wide
2) He gives up at times when losing possesion
3) He is not strong enough
4) He loses concentration and drifts out of position

These faults are not helped by:

1) Baines blatantly refusing to pass to him, opting to cut inside all of the time
2) The crowd making him a boo-boy (as we have history of doing to far better players than Bily) and waiting for him to make a mistake so they can shout "He's useless, get him off Moyes"
3) lack of confidence as a result of point 2.

I personally think we should let him go as it is clearly in the best interests of both parties. I firmly believe he will go to a club whose manager, teammates and formation will bring out the best in him and he can go on to show Europe just how good a player he could have been for us.

Put it this way, I would rather have Bily in the team instead of watching the utter dross of Anichebe, Gueye, Osman (even if he was playing half-decent prior to his injury) or McFadden, no matter how much we supposedly paid for him

Bily The Kid's Biggest Fan

Tim Locke
697 Posted 18/01/2012 at 12:37:26

Before addressing the Billy issue, lets address the poorly formed and cheap shots at Moyes. I am not sure where this 'PE teacher' idea come from or where you boys went to school maybe your PE teacher was one of the Premier League leading managers and helped at the local school.

I am not sure who you think could do a better job? Or why you think Everton are doing so badly, do you really think we have a team which should be finishing above 8th in the league? Moyes has kept a team up which should have been relegated, built a squad which performs to a high standard over the course a season. Do you really think a new manager would make any difference? The only difference I can see them making is helping us battle relegation until they finally help us into the Championship.

As for Bily, his stats speak for themselves. His first season was his best when he bagged 6 Prem goals from 16 starts, but it is the assists column which stands out, only one. The following season 2 goals and 2 assists from 10 starts and this year no goals and one assist from 7 starts. As an attacking midfielder especially in the wide role or behind the front two/one you have to be providing assists, and the only reason you are not doing that is because you are scoring.

I don't buy all this rubbish about being played out of position, it is not table football and the guy is stuck on one side of the pitch, he can move, and if he is world class as people think behind the front two I would expect him to naturally go there, he does not, and I don?t accept the argument that Moyes told him not to move, he is a human not a robot if he wants to cut inside, then he will. The fact he is now warming the Russian bench should tell us something, this is a player who sadly we over paid for and selling him for £5m is amazing work.

Danny Broderick
705 Posted 18/01/2012 at 15:43:19

He's fucking shite.

Andrew Fair
707 Posted 18/01/2012 at 15:50:07

Zhirkov, Pav bloke at Spurs and Arshavin all havent cut it either in the PL. So any blame going Moyes way is unjust on this occasion. Great strikes against Pompey, United and Wolves will be our memories but 'headless chicken' will be overall feeling.

James Stewart
710 Posted 18/01/2012 at 16:08:52

Good riddance. Rubbish player who should have been sold on long ago.

Wayne Smyth
740 Posted 18/01/2012 at 17:33:16

So, he can't pass, tackle or head the ball. He's physically slow, mentally slow, lazy, can't trap the ball, can't score or create etc, etc.

And Moyes paid £9M for someone who blatantly has no fucking footballing ability?

And we crucify bily for this and think Moyes should be absolved of any blame?

In any other line of business such a waste of cash - that we don't have - on an obvious white elephant would be grounds for immediate dismissal.

Of course, it could be that we actually have a talented footballer on our hands that our very highly paid manager(3rd best paid in the league??) cannot work with? Just like Yak. Just like Yobo.

Richard Farrington
741 Posted 18/01/2012 at 17:03:50

How anyone who has watched Billy this season can defend him is beyond me. He is complete shite, can't control it, can't pass forward, has zero bottle and is too weak even for my local under 14 league, regardless of what position he plays in, these are basic attributes required to play at EPL level. I just hope this rumour is true and he is moved on and we may get a decent replacement.

Peter Laing
742 Posted 18/01/2012 at 17:49:02

I would personally drive him to Wolfsburg, Moscow or Timbooktoo (as long as Bill pays for my petrol ?), every time the lad is on the pitch his arse is gone, he unfortunately just cannot cut it in the Premier League.

Brian Waring
759 Posted 18/01/2012 at 20:18:40

Andrew, Moyes gets all the plaudits when he buys someone, who goes on to do the bizz for us, so why shouldn't he take some of the blame for the failure of Bily?

Brian Waring
761 Posted 18/01/2012 at 20:22:41

Also Andrew, its funny that you say
' Headless chicken ' will be the overall feeling, because ' Headless chicken ' is something that the strikers we have had at the club, end up turning into. Bily Headless chicken ' strikers ' Headless chickens ' Hmmm....could there be a link?

Ryan Holroyd
764 Posted 18/01/2012 at 20:38:56

Billyaletdinov has not been consistent enough. It turns out he was a bad signing. All managers make them. Guardiola signed Zlatan Ibrahimovic for some crazy fee and sold him for much less. Ferguson with Veron etc etc.

Beckford has hardly been prolific has he for Leicester. Another example of people making things up to suit their own agenda.

Brian Waring
766 Posted 18/01/2012 at 21:14:25

The difference is Ryan, we can't afford to waste £9m, and on top of that fee, you also have all the wages Bily is getting paid.

Ryan Holroyd
769 Posted 18/01/2012 at 21:22:51

But Brian, it's going to happen whatever manager is in charge. If Ferguson makes mistakes then I'm sure other lesser managers will do. Surely you can get over the Moyes hating for once and realise every manager makes transfer mistakes.

Rob Lyons
770 Posted 18/01/2012 at 21:24:41

What is with all the PE teacher anecdotes? I am a PE teacher and trust me my tactics are a lot better than Moyes' tactics right now. Less of the stereotyping people please.

Brian Waring
771 Posted 18/01/2012 at 21:25:37

Also Ryan, Beckford hasn't been prolific for Leicester, but he has played 14 games, 7 of them coming on as a sub, and scored 5 goals, not a bad return.

Ryan Holroyd
773 Posted 18/01/2012 at 21:35:34

If he was as good as you seem to believe Brian he would be starting every game.

Perhaps if he'd bothered to turn up on time for an important cup game he MIGHT still be here.

Jamie Tulacz
774 Posted 18/01/2012 at 21:41:01

Brian (766)- not really Moyes' fault that we can't afford to waste money, surely the board for not providing any investment.

All the complaining on here in recent weeks about Moyes masks the fact that it's a new board that's the most pressing need so that we can get some much needed investment

Barry Rathbone
776 Posted 18/01/2012 at 21:35:02

The Moyes and Bily saga encapsulate all that's flawed about Moyes.

Bily wasn't what we needed and a few months later Donovan turning up on loan showed why.

Whether the Moyes stubborness of not admitting a mistake or just his usual dithering, Bily was never moved out in favour of a Donovan type.

If it ain't defence he doesn't know which way is up, just pig sick of him.

Ryan Holroyd
781 Posted 18/01/2012 at 22:19:49

Have you ever thought, Barry, why we've never had any offers to sell Bilyaletdinov? And that's why he's not been moved on. See, your logic is flawed as there are more options than what you've said.

Eugene Ruane
784 Posted 18/01/2012 at 23:02:57

The Krankies.

Long John Silver.

Carmen Miranda.

Zoe Ball.

Jack Reacher.

Paulie Walnuts.

Joe Royle.

Lena Zavaroni

(oh, I should explain, this is in response to Tim Locke's 697 question, re Moyes, ? 'I am not sure who you think could do a better job?'

Tin Tin

Tony Galento

Padre Pio.

Dexy's Midnight Runners.

Stan Ogden.

N E Wun.

Tom Dodds
792 Posted 19/01/2012 at 00:33:48

You know what? Regardless of ALL the debates about Moyes, Bily, positions, tactics, strikers etc... Everything boils down to ONE common denominator: (NOW)... KENWRIGHT.

Jason Lam
811 Posted 19/01/2012 at 06:15:33

Bily misplaces passes because the other dockeys aren't playing on the higher sophisticated wavelength. Other comments on this thread fair enough.

Sam Hoare
815 Posted 19/01/2012 at 07:05:15

Not a total dud but just not suited to the premier league. Moyes gave him time to settle in but he never looked like he had the heart for it. Hope he goes this window for 5-6m.

Name one manager who hasn't made bad transfer signings over a sustained period.

Tim Locke
912 Posted 19/01/2012 at 13:33:36

Sam #815 your closing point is spot on, all managers make bad signings. Not that I have look into this but I would bet that the more money you have the bigger your mistakes, and the more you make, David has made very few and his good signings far out weigh his bad both in terms of money spent v value added and talent on the field.

If Billy had turned out better then everyone would be talking about what a great signing, it's only look back people can really comment, and sure there are people who say I was there at the beginning I said Moyes was making a mistake. Those people should put their hands up now, who should we be buying, what up and coming talent should we be investing in? It easy to say we should sign Messi, but the talent is spotting a Baines or Jaks or Coleman or Howard and making them a better player.

Eugene Ruane
963 Posted 19/01/2012 at 17:31:02

Tim Lock 212 - you say..

"Those people should put their hands up now, who should we be buying, what up and coming talent should we be investing in? It easy to say we should sign Messi, but the talent is spotting a Baines or Jaks or Coleman or Howard and making them a better player".

No they (we!) shouldn't be 'putting our hands up now'

Moyes' involvement with Everton pays him more than £60,000 a week.

My involvement COSTS ME time, money, effort and (apart from grief) gives me very little.

And you're telling me I can't criticise Moyes signings UNLESS I can provide a list of better players?

Bollocks - you pay me THEN I'll provide a list.

By the way, your first 'point' - "If Bily had turned out better then everyone would be talking about what a great signing"

Er...yes that's true, that is very true, my word yes.

And of course if Pelé had been shite, everyone would be talking about how Pelé was shite.

Barry Rathbone
974 Posted 19/01/2012 at 18:35:24

Ryan Holroyd

Was that a cryptic crossword post?

I'm assuming you mean no-one has enquired about Bily.

Ignoring the obvious how the feck do you know? Then what in the name of god is Moyes doing buying players for 9 million quid who are worthless 6 months later.

It's bollox of course just like your post.