(I DO know how to spell it, I just don't know when to stop)

Agree Jackie re Macmanaman - he looks a more than decent player.

By the way, I'm actually hoping City win and Whelan slips and breaks his leg again

(Thatcher loving twat)

Are you watching, Moyes, because that is how you play at Wembley and with an even worse team. Moyes's 11 years at us suddenly look a whole lot worse.

Unfortunately I think our chances of getting Martinez just got slimmer.

Gutted to think it could have been us.

They played with incredible belief and without fear.

I imagine the devotees of L.Ron Moyes are praying Wigan go down otherwise another 'argument' vanishes

(ie: "look at Portsmouth, Birmingham, blah..")

Strange to think Martinez and Laudrup have won more than the manager of Manchester United.

Disproved again.

Twice in one season.

Come on you Blues – no respect for the Hammers nothing less than a convincing win for the blues and us long suffering supporters.

Great play by Wigan and brave attacking tactics from Martinez which paid off against a technically better side who underestimated the challenge and couldn't then raise themselves to it (sound familiar?)

Wigan definitely deserved it on the day and have proved that on a given day they can raise their game to beat anyone, but for all those spouting the usual nonsense about Moyes (incidentally lads he's actually going now so you can knock it off), perhaps you'd like to take a quick glance at the league table.

That's right, the one that shows we're 6th and have (I believe unfairly) fallen just short of the European slots, whilst Wigan are in the bottom 3 and in danger of falling short of Premier League football next year. Over the season with a broadly similar budget, Moyes has proven himself to be a far more capable manager. Which may be why the biggest club in the world deem him (above the likes of Mourinho) worthy of a 6 year contract to lead their team. Then again maybe Martinez was also on the shortlist but said no?

Anto Byrne gave Moyes brand of football a perfect description "joined-up stuff at walking pace".

What you just watched was a far better style of football. Far better suited to a team higher up the table and knocking on the door.

In my opinion, Martinez would take what we have got and improve it.

Martinez - Mcarthy - Maloney - and Macca

That said, well done Wigan.

NO!!!

I was reading your post but had to stop when you said "over the season with a broadly similar budget" as I pissed myself laughing

P.S. Richard Harris, the Wigan team which started today cost £11m. Less than Fellaini FYI.

God help us if Moyes is advising BK on the next manager, it will be dire football for years to come.

Sigh indeed.

Lennon wants 'more Celtic years

I just pissed myself again
Where did I say that

Serious question, now. Why does a team do so well in a cup and also be on the brink of relegation? Not just this example but other times it's happened as well. Fortune plays a part. But you must also think that Martinez has more than fortune about him. And yet, if he has, then why so poor in the league. I honestly don't know the answer.

There's no way Roberto Martinez is going to give up European Football in exchange for managing a club that his chairman says is not good enough!!

Phew - we nearly ended up with him.

Reflecting on it, I don't think we would have beaten city in the final. But that doesn't mean I want martinez as a manager (or would rather have him more than Moyes or someone else). My own feeling is that Martinez is a bit boom or bust (bit like Harry). I'd rather stay in the premier league than win the cup and go down.

But well done all the same.

I wonder if the open top bus for Wigan will have 'FA Cup winners 2013, Championship promotion hopefuls 2014' daubed on the side?

The FA Cup, like any single-leg knockout cup is far more of a lottery than the league. Wigan had an exceptionally easy route to the final - Bournemouth, Macclesfield, Huddersfield and Millwall and the 2 big teams they played were both well under par.
If our players had turned up against Wigan then we could have been in the final and if City had shown any real desire or cohesion they could have steamrollered the Latics, to be honest they didn't look like they were bothered.

The league is a far better indication of quality and achievement as it's consistent and balances out the outlier results such as todays. Under those conditions Martinez's all out attack policy hasn't proved so fruitful.

Ultimately I'm not sure what all this bitterness is supposed to achieved apart from displaying a lack of perspective and class, Moyes was with us for 11 years, he undisputedly improved the playing side and raised the expectations of the fans so that we're totally frustrated to be outside CL/Europa places. This year he even had us playing good attacking football for much of it (although I imagine it's his fault that Jelavic turned shit and our forward line couldn't put away the chances).

He desperately tried to avoid the question. He wants to move on in my opinion.

Embarrassing for Moyes to see that today, surely? I hope he feels embarrassed. That's how you approach a big game vs bigger spenders. No fear and no regrets.

I`ll give you a clue.
It`s 2 out of 3

The irony is, if all Moyesy has to show for next season is the FA or Carling Cup, he will be deemed a failure. I for one, wish him no luck at all as he is now against us.

Congratulations to Wigan but equally there's no need to go overboard. We know Martinez is good in certain big games, that doesn't mean that we need to go out and suddenly buy Wigan's manager and all of their players – there is a reason why they will probably be relegated soon. For all WIgan's attacking they didn't get many chances on target and the goal only came from a corner despite all their good play. If Tevez had finished from 5 yards like Lampard had from 25 then Martinez's final may well have ended up the same as Moyes's despite all his positive intentions. He also had the luck of having a fully fit team to choose from.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Wigan, it was a great performance which leaves you scratching your head over their league position. I just don't see why every single time any manager gets a good win anywhere it's used as a stick to beat a man who isn't even our manager anymore!

As for the "Knives to a Gunfight" remark Moyes probably had the best record of any Premier League manager against the new money City. Well done to Martinez he's a nice guy and can get his team up for the big occasion. When he wakes up after the last game of the season though he may well be the manager of a Championship club whereas Mr 'knife to a gunfight' Moyes will be the manager of Britain's top club.

you got a bit upset there about a report on another club on ToffeeWeb.
Then went on to write an essay (about another club)

So why post 272 words then about Wigan

I'm sure Leeds, Wednesday & Forest fans thought the same as you - first and foremost premiership survival is imperative for the majority of clubs without oodles of dosh.

"I just don't see why every single time any manager gets a good win anywhere it's used as a stick to beat a man who isn't even our manager anymore!"

No-one can help you if can't see some significance in "plucky little Wigan" beating Moneybags City to win the FA Cup Final — a comparable situation to Moyes's abject failure under rather similar circumstances against Chelsea some years ago.

Then there is the fact that it was Manchester City they beat. The team Everton were visiting when the Everton manager made that utter gutless and pathetically defeatist "knife to a gunfight" remark, bemoaning lack of resources, with a far more expensively assembled squad than Martinez had today.

And finally, David Moyes is still the Everton manager, not the Man Utd manager. He does not assume that role until 1 July 2013.

You can try to play it down all you like, because it flies in the face of a lot of the rational analysis you've posted on here. I doubt that the synergy of the above will be very easily forgotten by too many Evertonians.

Catch up with you later,just off to do my homework. Hic, shorry

if you read my post again - I never said we were like Wigan, Charlton, Man City or anyone of that ilk. I didn't say we would win a cup and go down, I was commenting about martinez/wigans situation. I said we just wouldn't win the cup.

So I'm sorry you've felt depressed - for no reason.

And our route to getting to the final (which if we had beaten Wigan would have been a given victory as we have the measure of Man City !) was so much harder !
If I recall correctly it was Leyton Orient, Cheltenham Town and it took a replay against Oldham Athletic (after conceding a last gasp goal in the 1st game) to get an 'easy' home tie against Wigan, Historical (or hysterical) revisionism at its finest :0) Still at least we can say that we were beaten by the team that went on to win the cup....

Will there be a story on here when Wigan are relegated extolling the virtues of the good league form of our previous manager? Of course there won't be, its a non story. Just like Wigan winning the cup is a non story – what does it have to do with Everton? I could half understand if the tone of this thread was 'look what our potential new manager has been getting up to'.....even if it would be jumping the gun a bit, however it seems that apart from being happy for Martinez or indeed anyone expressing their desire to see him here, he's just being used as a stick to beat Moyes with. What's the point of it - he's not even our manager anymore. If it carries on all that will happen is that as soon as Moyes wins an away game at a big team with Man Utd the other side will be on here going through the exact same thing. Moyes is gone now so its time to stop having this stupid debate. If you're made up Wigan have won a cup because Martinez could be coming here as a trophy winner then great. If you're made up that Martinez won because somehow it puts Moyes in a bad light then I'm not really the bitter one am I?

Why would I be bitter about Wigan? In what way do they affect anything? I'd much rather they won with a decent man like Martinez than City. More importantly I want the right man to take Everton forward and was just pointing out that there's something wrong in suggesting taking half the team and a manager from a team that is probably going to be relegated.

who do you consider to be "the right man " ?

Moyes is not 'gone'. He's still the Everton manager. There are two games left in which I believe most of us hope he will secure a 6th place finish before he leaves Everton to assume his new role as Man Utd manager on 1 July 2013.

I've explained the contrasts and links to today's momentus result which have a significant bearing on the Moyes area — another linkage is Callum McManaman, once of the Everton Academy (you know... the place where Everton were supposed to be breeding future players for the club) but who was released on Moyes's watch back in 2007. The lad was fantastic: Man of the Match.

There's been an awful lot written this week about Moyes's successes at Everton; perhaps you need to look at this thread as a perfect opportunity to tweak the balance a litlle bit back toward the middle, where his abject failings as Everton manager are also not forgotten.

I do not believe that hiring a manager just because he has shown he can win a trophy or win at Anfield is the way to go if the league form isn't there to match it. Those one-off days will be great but in reality, if Martinez stayed at Wigan, for example, or Laudrup at Swansea, they could both be waiting years for another go at it. It would just be one glorious day in the sun as it would be if we won at the big away grounds.

I feel we can get more of those days though on a continuous basis if we establish ourselves in that upper band. Nothing wrong of course with picking up a few on the way (hopefully!), but for me the main concern has to be getting into those top 4 spots. For me, I just don't think Martinez would be able to do that based on the league performance he's shown at WIgan so would not be my first choice for the job (even though I don't really know who is!). Just my opinion though.

WHY?

and don't exaggerate - three names have been mentioned. Hmmm 11 in the line-up plus 5 on bench - 3/16, not half really is it?

Moyes is too cautious in big games and that's why he hasn't won anything in his time with us and unless he changes his style, mentality and tactics very quickly, he'll be shown the exit door at OT in a flash!

Ignoring all things Everton, I like Martinez he a nice guy, his adventurous style is very nice like he is but really, he still has a worse league record with Wigan than Bruce!

Very happy for Wigan and Martinez, but I still can't see him as that manager to take us forward, but then, he did win a cup a week before being relegated. Of course he avoided those questions on leaving, he is going to be managing in the Championship if he stays! As for top clubs in Italy and Spain, well the RS didn't think he was more than Brenda.

Ross Edwards said "Adventurous attack always triumphs over boring cautious football and that is why Martinez should be at the Old Lady next season."

Martinez in the league, W9 D8 L19

I am glad they won the cup (they did have a good run to the final as quite frankly today was their toughest game after our non-appearance), but I just feel that Martinez is stuck in a loop and can't adapt as a manager, if he was so good Wigan would have been safe long ago, I don't expect miracles but they should have been they have good players, it as if he still the same as he was at Swansea, he can't win messy. I want a manager who plays attractive football, but I also want one that can grind out a 1-0 when it needed, sorry but no Martinez for me..

I didn't relaise this site was so pedantic (then again I should have remembered how I had to downgrade my description of Arteta as 'top' foreign talent because it outraged some) these are normal throw away phases. Of course I didn't mean we were going to buy half their team.

If you add that Jagielka will have a good few years in his prime, and that Osman and Pienaar are 31ish (I think) and have no pace anyway then its hardly an ageing squad is it.

Out of the players that have contributed to our season only Neville Distin and Howard are super old and one of these is a goal keeper (maybe you oculd throw Hibbert in as well). This is the sort of natural spread of ages you find at most top clubs. The new manager will certainly not have to start a fresh and its not a particularly ageing squad.

Unless and until Martinez is paraded as our new manager then I don't give a flying fuck about him either. He has won a cup but he is also in danger of getting relegated too. He had a go today but he fucked up big time against West Brom earlier this week too. All I will be interested in if he becomes our manager is how he does as our manager not how he did at Wigan.

I always felt Moyes understood the importance of good league form and was always trying to improve us to get us there - the evidence being that we've been closer than ever to getting it this year (or at least looking like a top 4 team). Ultimately in his time here he's failed to do that for whatever reason people see fit to explain this. Monetary constraints, competition too intense, cautious mindset and overreliance on players - its probably a combination of all these things. If he'd seen the Fellaini money next year and invested it well then I think we might have had another decent crack at it but who knows how it would have turned out.

Surely this has to be the remit for the new manager though if not next season then in the foreseeable future. Otherwise we are going to be stuck in this place of top players using us a stepping stone. there might be a trophy win, but there won't be many and it won't come in the form of a league title or champions league. So yes I do think there should be a high bar for the new manager - he should be better in all the areas that Moyes wasn't - I want him to be better because it will be better for Everton.

Why did you not write an article about a certain manger with a tiny net spend managed to keep a certain club consistently competing for a European place? Didn't suite your selected agenda?

League positions show consistency, and so provide better basis for judging quality. One-off cup wins come with an element of luck. As well, this is an Everton website, not a Wigan website.

We have plenty of those!!!

I still can't be swayed, if he does get the job then I hope he proves me wrong and I'll cheer the team all the same (dunno if I could do that if Hughes walked in the door).

For some reason I still want Solskjaer, as a player he was excellent, he also a good guy and, despite a poor start this season, has done very well with Molde, he young and has learnt at Utd as reserve team manager. You can pick many holes in him and his lack of experience but if you gave me a choice today, I'd take him over Martinez and todays result for Wigan hasn't changed my mind. Lets face it, the manager with the best record against City in the prem is Moyes! So can hardly call them tough opponents ;)

Roberto definitely won some points with me today, but I can't get over his inability to improve his side over the last few years that rankles me. But if he comes, we'll all give him a fair chance I'm sure.

See y'all for the match

Adios

I set the bar at 1st every year. Unrealistic of course, if that doesn't happen then 2nd.....3rd etc. I think a new, positive, attack-minded manager would definitely improve our position of 6th/7th this season.

As I said earlier in my opinion, Moyes underachieved this season. If we were more positive (at the right times, not gung ho in every game) we would have turned some of our 15 draws into wins... 3 out of the 15 would have us above Spurs.

McManaman was 16 at the time. This is the first year he's played more than 3 Premier League games.

So presumably Barcelona are shit at nurturing youngsters because they released Jordi Alba and then spent about ten million quid buying him back a few years later. Or maybe European finalists Dortmund, because they released Reus as a youngster and had to buy him back for millions. Or maybe Lille, who released Franck RIbery.

Releasing a 16 year old who, several years later goes on to show great potential as a player, is not an abject failure or really a demonstration of anything other than the relative degree of luck which goes into the development of any young player.

Promise I wont mention you again.

Ok?

Great performance, good game in spite of it being a tense occasion. The only downside was the commentators. They really couldn't give a monkeys if one of their favourites aren't playing. Andy Townsend is as unfamiliar with commentary and insight as Ray Mears is to a Travelodge.

No we probably wouldnt. However as Wigan murdered us at Goodison and their manager is a potentially a front runner for the soon to be vacant post at Goodison it is a valid topic for debate.

The real reason however is that in my opinion it was one of the best performances I have seen in a cup final for many a year and it wasnt by one of the usual suspects. The style of football from Wigan was without fear, was stylish, was inventive and was pleasing on the eye. It was lacking the typical negativity and sterility that many of the so called 'top' teams display. I would love Everton to adopt that attitude. I hope Wigan don't get relegated because they at least try to play football the way it should be, rather than the fayre served up by Stoke.

That it turned out to be a brilliant game of football was a bonus.

That the plucky under-resourced relegation-threatened club won against the superstar moneybags was an even bigger bonus.

That the game did something to redress the decline in the value and image of the FA Cup was also a bonus.

Stephen Telford, 'selling Martinez" is not something I have any interest in, so your agenda-mongering is misplaced. And so-called "one-off cup wins" do something we haven't seen since 1995: they win trophies.

TJW — stupid question that seems to completely miss the entire point of the celebration. But if you want to do your usual "let's blame the players" analysis of City failings... be my guest.

Chris Leyland, how ironic. People are so fond of citing what other clubs do as "explanation" or "context" or "perspective" for how we should view Everton. I've been slammed before when reiterating that Everton are the only thing that matter to me, and what other teams do or don't do is irrelevant. But today was the FA Cup Final — what was once, and I believe should be again a special day in the football calendar for all fans.

Oh, and another Everton link: just listening on BBC 5Live to who else but Matt Jackson; he is now a coach with Wigan's Academy.

I was the first to call for Martinez at the beginning of last season laying out his innovative work at Swansea as the prime reason – got absolutely slated for it by the Moyes dolts – kiss my arse!

Barry Rathbone (828) you were right and I was completely wrong. Martinez is a better manager than Moyes on so many levels!! I would be very surprised if Kenwright doesn't offer him the job. If he doesn't, I may have to change my pro-Kenwright opinions as well....

Has he got more votes on the TW poll since the match? I bet he has! He had my vote straight away. I like the man and I like the kind of football his team plays. Am I worried about his team's defensive record? Yes, I am. Am I concerned about Wigan's low placing in the Premiership in the last few seasons? Yes, I am. But the man's approach to the game excites me and I think he can take a step up and do the business for us.

Best of all - and I don't think anyone has mentioned this - we can now say that we were beaten by the FA Cup winners! If we hadn't met the mighty Wigan in the quarters we'd have won it ourselves. Juvenile logic, but curiously satisfying, I find.

However, I received an interesting text from my best mate earlier. He's a scouser who lives in London and whose wife works for the FA (in a not insignificant role) Whilst in obligatory attendance at Wembley for the final, she was told, in direct conversation with Martinez's wife Beth, that he IS our new manager, regardless of whether Wigan stay up or not.

I should add that both my life-long friend and his missus are reds but used the word 'gutted' in reaction to what they had heard!

Anyhow, make of this what you will, IMHO he is a vast improvement on the likes of Lennon, Mackay or Hughes but I would've still preferred someone like Perreira or Klopp.

COYB

Well, I have to say after a slowish start they got better and better and better. Couldn't detect any signs of an inferiority complex, nerves or cautiousness; they fought for everything and when they got the ball they passed it around quickly, with purpose and positively. They created some great chances, should have had two nailed-on penalties, and kept City down to only a few opportunities during the whole game. Wigan got exactly what they deserved despite having a few very very average players in that team and playing against a team that genuinely cost hundreds of millions.

My son's footy coach here is a mad Wigan fan, has been all his life, and watches Wigan all the time. He has been saying for ages that Martinez has a true footballing philosophy and refuses to play any percentage football. He reckons they've had to sell their best players every year, yet he gets them playing great stuff. Like us, they don't get many decisions going their way and this costs them. Makes sense really when you think about it; they are even more unfashionable than us! When the pressure mounts, injuries strike, decisions go against them, bad luck happens, and they end up in the relegation zone; he sticks to his guns and they play their way out. The rest of the teams play percentage and panic football. He has a vision for how the beautiful game should be played and has a great eye for a bargain; this is the type of manager I want for the next 11 years at the mighty Blues.

That team cost £11 million apparently, less than Fellaini! Wigan have a wage bill which is supposed to be around 2/3 of Everton's; if true, that's pretty unbelievable.

I had voted on ToffeeWeb for Vitor Pereria — can I have my vote changed please, Lyndon and Michael, I want Martinez.

On TV here in Australia, the anchorman reckons that Martinez would be Everton's gain and Man Utd's loss, and I personally have to agree.

If Andy #896 is right, these are happy happy days to be a Blue.

On another note, my blind cousin David (England's greatest goalscorer no less) was the guest of honor at the Cup Final, presented to the players on the pitch and he presented the Cup to Wigan; guess where he's from? Wigan, this is turning out to be a great week.

In Martinez We Trust!

To be fair to Moyes the only team he ( with the exception of the knife to gun fight game ) has no trouble taking on is city, I think he plain just doesn't like mancini.

It now will remain forever moot after he played a half fit rapidly fading before our eyes neville Vs Wigan...for all we know he may have reverted to type at Wembley.

what a day that would've been for us. the 80th aniversary of Dixies Cup Final. Both teams could have played in replicas of the original strips us in white and black them in maroon.

I wanted Moyes to go, I thought he would go, even if it was just on extended holiday. But I never in a million years thought it would be to United. and on a 6yr contract. Has he gone for the same money he is on here or less given his no trophy record.

Get some one in soon bill don't skimp, you would've had to pay Moyes if he stayed

Congrats to wigan real roy of the rovers stuff I expect to find out soon that Martinez has given his winners medal to Whelan.

As for city, did any body see kompany get a scarf put round his neck by a city fan while he was coming up the steps, we didn't actually see him yank it of and drop it on the floor but 3 secs later he had no scarf on...sums them up, no class.

Bill action a week on monday once the prem is all done and dusted, get him signed up

Of course, before then, we had Mike Walker badly attempting to football his way out of relegation strife. He just missed out on relegation first time round and was in the process of finishing the job when we sacked him, replaced him with Big Joe and the rest was history.

A respected match-going acquaintance of mine always said that if Walker had come after Royle, he'd have done better, but he had no idea of how to scrap his way out of trouble. Not sure if that would have been true, but it got me thinking about whether Martinez's style may be better suited to a top seven side?

By the way, I know football is 'different' now, but the minute big Joe arrived he brought in a good striker, added some pace and a bit of nastiness. You know the rest. I bet Joe's wondering what might have been if he'd got the support Moyes got.

I hope the new man immediately does exactly the same as Joe to build on Moyes' good work. I think that's all we need to push on.

However 'nice' he is and however 'attacking' his side is (a consequence of having no defensive nous whatsoever, consistently resulting in a hugely negative imbalance), he flirts with relegation every season - and may well get what he deserves this time.

And you want him as our next manager?

The MOB on here are so going to get what they deserve.

We'll end up scrapping with the likes of Norwich, Sunderland and Stoke with Martinez in charge.

Rubbing shoulders with the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs and finishing ahead of the Gobshites will be as feasible as it was under Mike Walker.

Alex MacLeish is free. He won the league cup with Birmingham. Let's have him?

I also very much doubt that Wigan would have won without Martinez. He had it all worked out, and had the players prepared to perfection.

Beating us in the 6th Round was no fluke. At Wembley, I was very pleased for them.