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Naismith v Liverpool

It seems to me that Steven Naismith is gradually developing James Vaughan syndrome. Few chances to start and run like fuck when you get a chance as sub. Little time to settle in, too much to prove, no chance to play your real game.

I think he should start behind Jelavic (in the absence of Fellaini) against Liverpool. He puts himself about, he has lots to prove and, most importantly, Jelavic believes in him.

I like Vic, but see him as an impact sub at best. We are severely limited in midfield but we really must go at Liverpool. This could be the Naismith derby...

Andy Crooks, Belfast Posted 23/10/2012 at 19:01:04

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Chris Burns
974 Posted 24/10/2012 at 06:46:26

Already dreading it, I'm afraid.

Gah... I hate the derby.

Tom Dodds
975 Posted 24/10/2012 at 07:12:31

Yep, I reckon that too. I watched his hat-trick against AEK Athens; let him and Jelly resurrect their old partnership and drop Fellaini back.

Peter Thistle
977 Posted 24/10/2012 at 07:18:27

Not sure Naisy is ready yet. Moyes said himself that he would probably take a few months of first team football to get back up to speed. Maybe worth a gamble though behind jelly if only to keep mirallas on the right and have a decent shape.

Ian Bennett
978 Posted 24/10/2012 at 07:28:43

I don't think we can play jelly, Mirallas and vic, it's 2 out of 3 only.

They lack work rate and passing ability which will put to much strain on osville. I am not sure that will change with Naismith coming in, so fingers crossed on gibson and Fellaini pulling through, as junior and hitzsberger aren't going to be ready for a derby.

Phil McKeown
987 Posted 24/10/2012 at 08:59:07

Gibson won't be ready, even if he is passed fit, a ridiculous assumption as he has been out for 2 months so early in the season.

I seriously worry about our midfield in this game, if Fellaini does make it, he will need to drop in as Osville will get raped against the RS three centre-mids, therefore leaving Jelavic isolated.

Personally, I would match the murderers and play Mirallas and Naismith advanced either side of Jelavic and go for the throat. Unfortunately, I worry Moyes will shit himself again.

James Martin
993 Posted 24/10/2012 at 09:16:35

Naismith probably will start somewhere. If Fellaini isn't fit then he'll almost certainly start. Mirallas and Naismith flanking Fellaini behind Jelavic isn't the worst attacking unit in the world. Antyhing to avoid Anichebe on the wing.

Paul David
003 Posted 24/10/2012 at 09:32:59

I haven't been impressed with Naismith at all but with the players we have out theres going to be at least a couple of players on the pitch that most of us wished weren't there.

Ged Simpson
006 Posted 24/10/2012 at 09:49:08

I would play Heitinger before Neville....or would I. Derby fever - Gerrard diving ?

Glad I'm not Moyes

Pablo Connelly
018 Posted 24/10/2012 at 10:45:09

I agree with you Andy. He seems to have been wrote off by many who don't seem to get that he had a career threatening injury 12 months ago and has only started a few competitive games since. He already has big game experience so he should be given his chance. However whether he starts or does well on Sunday or not, I am quite happy to give this lad the benefit until the end of the season, he may well end up being vital. He wasnt rated so highly before his injury for nothing. Some will say but that was in Scotland, well Jelaivc made his reputation there as well. So did a decent play called Henrick Larrson. Having said all that, please deliver on Sunday Naismith, we desparatley need it!!!!

Steve Smith
022 Posted 24/10/2012 at 11:23:53

I thought Naismith did ok when he came on against QPR, he looks like one of those players who needs ten or twelve games before you see his real talent, the trouble with the PL though is it's hard to give anyone that amount of time without it being detrimental to the team... I know, I know, Neville, Saha, etc.etc.

He's played in all the big games up north though, it could be the sort of atmosphere he thrives on.

Mark Dunford
024 Posted 24/10/2012 at 11:40:39

Agree that Naismith might have valuable experience for Sunday. He seems like a ready made replacement for Cahill but it is difficult to judge his ability at this moment; he is - as others point out - on his way back from a horrible injury and in his first few months at a new club following the bizarre collapse of his previous home. He almost certainly needs time and support but the fact others rate him says a lot. He put himself about effectively at QPR in trying conditions.

Moyes has some difficult decisions to take for this game. Threadbare squad exposed again - even though we have versatility in every signing. Two injuries and a suspension have decimated the midfield. Hope he doesn't bring anyone back too soon.

Sam Jennings
029 Posted 24/10/2012 at 12:16:53

I would start him behind Jelavic on Sunday, and not just because of the lack of options we have. I think this lad has the potential to be a good player for us and we know he has played very well with Jelavic at Rangers in the past. He is also capable of playing the type of football we want to play unlike Big Vic for example.

Jelavic thrives off service and as he had less than none against QPR his overall performance was fairly ineffectual – Naismith will help with this problem IMO, especially as our main creator in chief is suspended.

The rest of the line up is where I am struggling to find the right team assuming we are without Fellaini, Gibson & Pienaar.

Sam Hoare
050 Posted 24/10/2012 at 14:45:23

I concur. Keep Mirallas on the right, give Oviedo a go on the left (he has pace which I think we might need) and give Naismith a start behind jelavic. He will run his heart out harrying Allen and creating space for jelly and after 70 mins we can replace him with Vic if we are losing or Johnny if we are winning.

Phil Walling
052 Posted 24/10/2012 at 14:50:12

Naismith will be a side issue in the derby.

I suspect we shall be treated to the resurrection of KITAHTNO or whatever it was dubbed — it`s the only way Moyes knows how to approach such games.

The result will be the usual one with Marriner getting the blame for our misfortune. Been there, seen it.................

Patrick Murphy
060 Posted 24/10/2012 at 15:30:42

Well I knew we were down to the bear bones but Naysmith v Liverpool , I don't think he'll manage to keep them out for the whole 90 mins.

Seriously , whoever plays , I hope they have brushed up on their passing as it will be how we deal with the football , which will determine our chances of a positive result. Besides they took 6 points of us last season and we still managed to finish above them.

Patrick Murphy
061 Posted 24/10/2012 at 15:34:26

Oh sorry , don't call the RSPA I meant bare bones not BEAR bones

Ray Ingram
062 Posted 24/10/2012 at 15:36:24

Come on, Blues, let's wipe the floor with this Red Shite...

Steve Mink
093 Posted 24/10/2012 at 18:08:08

If Fellaini fit the Team should be

Howard

Neviile. Jag. Distin Baines

Osman. Fell I

Mirallas. Naismith. Oviedo

Jelavic

Sean Patton
110 Posted 24/10/2012 at 19:45:49

The difference being that Vaughan actually scored goals. Naismith has done little in the league and his best game was against Leyton Orient, people saying that he will come good are being a trifle optimistic on his performances so far.

Peter Mills
114 Posted 24/10/2012 at 20:00:29

I just want us to take the initiative. Howard Kendall often used to shake things up for a derby match, it didn't always come off but at least it demonstrated that he recognised it was a special match.

Bobby Thomas
117 Posted 24/10/2012 at 20:01:16

As has been said above by Pablo, the lad is coming off his second cruciate and is in his first season in the Prem. I would expect him to finish the season alot stronger than he starts.

To be honest though, im only ever expecting/hoping him to be a very good squad player max. We could do with a few!!

Think the Henrik comparison is a bit much though Pablo!! He could have played for anyone, and indeed should have for a lot longer than he did as he was past his best when he went United and Barca.

His link, touch, back to goal play, movement, runs off the centre halves, finishing, awareness were all awesome and he was fucking brilliant in the air as well. Loved him. I know he really loved life in Glasgow but he could have done a shitload.

Kevin Tully
119 Posted 24/10/2012 at 20:07:40

We could be in for a few changes. Fellaini, Gibson & Hibbo are all taking part in training.

I would like to see Hibbert up against Sterling, I fear he would turn Coleman inside out. Rumours are Fellaini will be ready. Gibson won't be match fit, so I doubt very much we will see him start.

Jagielka is going to have to stop throwing himself to ground for last ditch tackles - Suarez always fakes to shoot, and then goes past defenders, he will leave him on his arse.

If we score first, they will cave - get bodies in the box and let's fucking leather these twats.

Mike Gaynes
120 Posted 24/10/2012 at 20:13:20

I thought Naismith looked good last week, and I'm with Sam and Steve... give him a start behind Jeli and keep Kevin wide, where he's more effective. When Naismith runs out of steam at 65 minutes, Vic can replace him, or Coleman can come in and move Mirallas inside. If Fellaini's fit, I'd rather see him back farther.

Andy Kay
126 Posted 24/10/2012 at 20:33:28

I'd start with Vic, get Big Dunc to tell him it's time to start earning his place and scare the shit out of their back four instead of our own fans! He's a local lad, fire him up to cause problems and give Jelavic the space to score. Naismith to come on for him when the ref gives the Shite a couple of pens and sends off Howard. (You know something like this always happens.)

Pablo Connelly
146 Posted 24/10/2012 at 22:45:44

Bobby I think my post got lost in translation a bit there mate. I used Larrson and Jelavic as examples that it doesnt necassarily mean that a player wont cut it at a higher level just because they forged their reputation in Scotland. I wouldn't for one second suggest we have the new Larrson on our hands, I am not that daft!!

Stephen Doyle
148 Posted 24/10/2012 at 22:45:01

Kevin -119

I would like us to 'leather the twats' too, but if anyone is going to cave in I think it will probably be us if our recent record against them is anything to go by. Their recent 'hold' over us, best illustrated by the FA semi - is so infuriating, especially when we clearly have had the opportunity to take them to the cleaners in some recent games.

Colin Wainwright
153 Posted 24/10/2012 at 23:16:19

Fuckin' exciting though, innit? Hate derbies.

Ciarán McGlone
156 Posted 24/10/2012 at 23:44:37

I don't think it's the cruciate injury that makes him look like a shite footballer... just sayin' like.

Andrew Presly
161 Posted 25/10/2012 at 00:56:21

Nais worked hard last Sunday in his 35 mins and put his head in a few times near the end when it got tight to win f/kicks and buy time when we were down to 10.

Was pleased with that but he's done nothing else in competitive action (loved the h/trck in Hibbo's testimonial but very sadly we can't play them every week...)

This is the big one so with the injuries / suspensions he'll be ideal for a cameo....here's hoping he seals it as he does have a goal in him. What a time it would be for the first. Likely?!

Mike Oates
185 Posted 25/10/2012 at 08:58:23

The freebee of Naismith early in the close season was one Moyes had to take I suspect because at that time he didn't have the cash to play with and Naismith was a reasonable gamble.With the Rodwell sale it allowed Moyes to buy a decent striker in Mirallas and I think that has put Naismith way down the pecking order.

Naismith needs game time - and I mean 4-6 games on the trot to get match fit, find out his best position (and they can only be out wide or in the hole) and I'm afraidthe way we have started this season he isn't going to get it unless Pineaar, Fellaini or Mirallas get injured or suspended for 3-4 games.

Will Florance
188 Posted 25/10/2012 at 09:20:41

I reckon team should be:

Howard
Neville, Jags, Distin, Baines
Coleman, Osman, Fellaini (if fit)/Heitinga, Mirallas
Anichebe or Nasmith
Jelavic

James Martin
191 Posted 25/10/2012 at 10:18:27

Mike, had Rangers not been in meltdown then Naismith, who they valued higher than Jelavic, would have cost a substantial amount. He could have easily cost more than Mirallas; just because we got him for a free doesn't mean he's a bad player. He needs to be given a chance rather than people judging him on 5 minutes here and there, usually at the end of games.

Bobby Thomas
202 Posted 25/10/2012 at 10:35:19

Fair do's Pablo, I was only messing about really! Yes, Henrik was another level entirely.

On Naismith I think the pace and physicality of the league will be a surprise to him and its going to take time, especially after the injuries. It will take time to adapt mentally and physically to it.

I think we will have a very handy squad player indeed, hes got a good football brain. However I would go as far as saying we may see the best of him next season. I will be very surprised if Moyes throws him in on Sunday, I know we are light in mid but I think its way too much too soon considering the football hes had.

We have been getting played through lately and I can see him playing Hibbert, putting together a mid 5 with Neville n Heitinga holding and Ossie left in the Pienaar role, Coleman right and Mirallas joining on in the Fellaini position if theres no Mo the Fro. Ossie and Mirallas are interchangeable. Moyes will be aware Glen Johnson likes to bomb on and is a threat so maybe he would be more inclined to go with Ossie. Plus Ossie plays it narrow like Pienaar and we can then look to get him linking with Baines on the overlap.

If Fellaini plays, it will free up Mirallas to play right if Moyes wants to go that way.

With Sterling in good form and Hibbert playing this week I can see him throwing him in and it would free Coleman up to do some mid if we need. Hibbert came back from injury a few years ago straight into an Anfield derby and did 90. If Hibbo is there we would be tighter down that side and we would be able to do more getting at them, such as Mirallas.

We need the Fro playing.

Paul Kelly
204 Posted 25/10/2012 at 11:32:05

I can't see Naismith starting to be honest. I think he'll move Coleman up to mid, Hibbo right back. Vic in there too with Kevin playing off Jelly.

And three points to the Shite.

Derek Thomas
210 Posted 25/10/2012 at 12:28:18

I think he is a more effective player than Osman, faint praise I know but just as Osman has no real fixed position to call his own the same is / will happen with Naismith. He might or might not get a start and he might or might not have a decent game, again a bit like Osman.

Mike Oates
214 Posted 25/10/2012 at 12:33:56

James (#191)
I'm not at all saying that Naismith is a bad player as he was free, it's just that Mirallas is more of a goal threat and I suspect Naismith's best position is currently occupied by Fellaini. To me, Naismith would have been in earlier on if it were not for the £12m from Rodwell sale, and the obvious success of Fellaini supporting Jelavic.

Danny Broderick
215 Posted 25/10/2012 at 12:21:51

I think Vic is a certainty to start. Moyes loves trying to shoe-horn him into the team, and the absence of Pienaar will give him the opportunity to do so with Mirallas on the left, and Vic on the right – much to my frustration.

I don't think Naismith will start – he is not fit enough for a normal game, let alone the derby. Moyes will keep on bringing him on, softly softly...

Ajay Gopal
219 Posted 25/10/2012 at 12:55:27

I like Bobby Thomas's team and one that should see us through in spite of not having our midfield trio of Fellaini, Gibson & Pienaar.

Howard
Hibbert, Jagielka, Distin, Baines
Neville, Heitinga
Coleman, Mirallas, Osman
Jelavic

This way, Moyes gets to play all his favourites (Hibbo, Neville, Osman) plus we have a fair bit of attacking threat in Jela, Coleman, Mirallas and some experience and steel in the middle through Neville & Heitinga.

Of course, somebody will point out that this is a negative team selection - 8 defenders and only 3 attacking, but IMHO this is the team that Moyes will likely play and one that is practical given the absence of the 3 stars.

Subs: Anichebe, Naismith, Oviedo, Gueye, Duffy, McAleny, Mucha

2-1 to the Blues.

Nick Entwistle
221 Posted 25/10/2012 at 13:26:44

The football flows with 4-2-3-1 and if Moyes goes 'safe 'n hoof', we'll be in trouble.

Ajay's team looks good to me, and if the Gibaini (that won't catch on) are available then they'll slot into the middle. Potentially Neville will go to RB but Hibbert may get the nod for pace alone.

Kevin Tully
222 Posted 25/10/2012 at 13:33:10

Whatever happens on Sunday, this group of players & Moyes owe us their best efforts.

Fuckin' three times they beat us last season - one of those being a semi-final.

If we can't beat these at home knowing we will be in fourth, they may as well not turn up.

The whole bunch of them will be big game bottlers if we don't put in a good performance.

We cannot accept a defeat on Sunday, not to those twats again.

Christine Foster
224 Posted 25/10/2012 at 14:04:25

I wonder if Moyes learnt ANYTHING from last season's debacles? Here's a few suggestions:

1. Put out our best side in their right positions, play the way they know best. Don't experiment.

2. Don't assume a negative formation, they are where they are because they are crap. Remember that.

3. Play two strikers, together – not either side of the pitch; it was heartbreaking to see our strikers, yet again, playing on the wings. Every sodding striker under Moyes ends up running the channels and hoping midfield are somewhere to be found.

4. Entertain us, with positive attitude, confidence and desire to win; we are at HOME!

5. Play our game and let them worry about us.

If he does any of the above I will be amazed...

James Martin
226 Posted 25/10/2012 at 14:34:24

Christine your first three suggestions don't really fit together. If you want the best players playing in their best positions then that will automatically (in Moyes's eyes) be a 4-2-3-1 with Jelavic up top.

This formation is going to be the same whether positive or negative. He could tell the widemen to drop back but it's essentially the same formation it's positivity dependent on how well we're playing and how far we can get the widemen and Fellaini up the pitch. If this is the best formation with the best players then why would he play 2 strikers up top together? We haven't played it all season and they're not familiar with playing it.

As for 4 and 5, I agree with you.

Bobby Thomas
229 Posted 25/10/2012 at 14:37:26

Christine I too will be amazed if we play 2 strikers as......we never do.

Rogers likes to load mid and utilise wide areas. Playing 2 strikers and a flat 4 in mid would go a long way to getting beat imo.

Its all going to be about the mid and if we are solid, impose ourselves are positive its there 2 win.

Paul David
254 Posted 25/10/2012 at 17:49:35

I personnally disagree that the game will be won in midfield. In derby's there is little football played and usually the ball goes from back to front as fast as possible with neither team holding onto the ball for long.

John Audsley
260 Posted 25/10/2012 at 19:08:50

Kevin Tully 222

Spot on, very fucking spot on

Ian Bennett
263 Posted 25/10/2012 at 19:17:49

They have probably 7 starting tonight who I'd think will start on Sunday, 8 if reina is injured. The Russians will be tough, go Gonzalez!

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