Gueye I agree with Bill, he's not going to make it at this level. Maybe Naismith won't either though he has a better chance. Even Moyesy can't produce a pearl from every oyster!!

My recollections of the mid-80s teams were that the bit part players like Alan Harper and Kevin Richardson offered us a lot more off the bench and as back up starters than the current crop but I guess that's a reflection of the financial constraints we work under.

I agree that the few glimpses we have seen of Gueye have not been great. Certainly both Gueye and Junior were bloody awful against Leeds. To be fair Vellios has scored a couple of goals and looked promising.

Personally I think Moyes should consider loaning Vellios and Gueye out to Championship sides. Regular first team football in the Championship will give Moyes a better idea of how good or bad those players really are.

The problem is that we don't ever seem to have enough senior players at any one time to be able to do this. It's a mix of not being able to afford enough senior players and always having a couple out injured.

The quality of these young / back-up players depends on who we can attract / afford to pay for their services. We can't choose not to have them simply to save money as we have to operate in a league / association that is not just interested in EFC.

Sorry, but to me this is another nonsense OP from someone who is simply ignoring the realities of the rules the club has to conform to and the financial burden this entails.

If you got rid of those players you mention, and put U21's on the bench, within 6 matches those U21's would be asking for new contract negotations and increased salaries (typically matching those of what the other players were on I would imagine).

Market rate is market rate.

They are all still learning and Gueye did have a more than half decent few games in the middle of last season the cup tie at Sunderland springs to mind.Vellios always looks ok when he comes on I am not saying they are world beaters but the suggestion is to flood the bench with even more inexperienced players is nuts. With Mucha it has been the managers decision to stick with him as cover for Howard.

Si, I accept your point about commitments to reserves and the u21 league, but to me, it's meaningless to players that are apparently on the cusp of the first team and are twenty or twenty one years of age. In terms of development for this age group, the u21 league ie worthless. Send them out to the championship or league one. I would honestly think that it did Duffy and Garbutt a lot more good last season than playing them in the u21 league this season. This season, neither player has had any football at senior level, with the exception of the very odd five minute cameo for Duffy.

Fair enough, don't send them all out at once, we don't have the numbers or finances for that. Why not give two half a season and then another two the second half of the season out on loan. They can always be recalled early if needed.

Reality is we don't have enough players ready to play at senior of U21 level to be able to send people out all over the country and still fulfil our commitments.

Whatever supporters may think, the manager (whose job it is) thinks that his bench is made up of the best players he has available in a range of positions to be able to make best tactical / enforced changes he can to win each game.

The suggestion to simply populate the bench with untested young players for purely financial reasons is simply unbelievable. Which of us would simply accept it?

This thread is just a vehicle for people to have a pop at players they don't rate and serves no practical purpose. Wise up; if players can be spared and would potentially benefit from being loaned out, the manager would do it. The fact that they regularly appear on the bench tells you that they are probably exactly were the manager thinks they are most valuable to him or he has no other practical choice.

I am unsure of the exact nature of loan deals but think for some you commit to a longer term than others. It doesn't change the fact that whoever is currently on loan is unavailable for the U21s or bench duty and so you need a bigger pool of players to fulfil your commitments. The club doesn't have the money to employ extra players for the periods when the manager wants to send players out on loan if that number rises above a severely limited amount.

Gueye got a small run last year when there were some injuries and Pienaar was cup tied. He did really well in some games and looked clueless in others. He needs more game time but isn't going to get past Pienaar or Oviedo. I've seen him go on some amazing runs where he's beaten 3 or 4 players so he's obviously got potential. However, unless he does something awesome in the next 5 months, I expect him to be sold in the summer to make room for younger and cheaper youth players like Kennedy.

Vellios's flick-on against Spurs demonstrated great possibility for that potential partnership.

I'm not yet convinced by Vellios, he has looked a little work shy and touch heavy in the reserves games I've seen. Still, I'm more than happy for him to prove me wrong.

Surprised nobody's thought of it before.

Tad premature to include Barkley in that list. Give the lad a chance.

On the plus side, he still wants the ball, has good technique, and a powerful shot. Unfortunately, his pace has all but disappeared and I'm beginning to think the Sheffield loan move was a big mistake.

He is still very young and the backroom boys will be working overtime on his sharpness, alertness and concentration. He is a true blue and seems to be a nice lad. For his sake, let's hope it all ends well.

Didn't know we had signed another couple of international keepers in the last few days. To be honest I didn't realise there were any 'bankers' out there waiting to sign for nothing.

Gueye, I was initially impressed with, but he has dwindled down a bit. I just don't think he is a winger. Even if he is, we have Pienaar, Oviedo who are better than him there anyway. I wouldn't mind seeing how he does as a second striker. But to be honest, some teams in the French leagues could bid around £2/3 million for him.

Vellios looks good to me, but still a bit raw, and wouldn't mind seeing how he does in the Championship. I do think he is good enough, so for us to loan in a good back up striker and loan out Vellios is needed. It could turn Vellios a different player and benefit us long term. I'm sure Moyes is thinking about that one.

This is exactly the case: Vellios is 20 and Gueye is 22.

Mucha... yes, on ya way!