Toffeeweb - Talking Points - Can we beat Man Utd?

Declan Brown
574 Posted 08/02/2013 at 14:41:23

Bit of a scary stat to report here guys.

In Mark Halsey's 10 years of refereeing Man Utd games, Man Utd have never lost a game at Old Trafford when Halsey has been in charge. Personally I think he's a good referee to be honest but that's a scary stat!!!

Luckily I was old enough to remember our last win there, a 3-0 victory under Howard Kendall with Bob The Pole and Mighty Mo(use) Johnston scoring (did Beardsley score that night too?, I remember our 3-0 victory left them bottom of the league in late August).

Memories of Duncan's double there too are coming back. But personally I think our record there under Moyes is like our record at Anfield - should be better, the 4-4 was a cracker and the 3-0 defeat (Moyes first game at Old Trafford with us) was a sterling effort until we crumbled late on.

Should be a laugh on Sunday as usual (LOL), but here's hoping for the best.

David Harrison
578 Posted 08/02/2013 at 14:56:38

Of course we can beat them. Man Utd are very ordinary but most teams are already beaten before they get to OT. A bit of self-belief & a hope that RvP isn't firing on all cylinders could see us get something. Unfortunately, our defence is so porous this season that we could also be on the end of a thumping.

Chris Owens
580 Posted 08/02/2013 at 15:03:56

No chance. They’ll be fired up for this one, because we cost them the league last year and beat them at Goodison earlier this season.

Barry Rathbone
582 Posted 08/02/2013 at 15:25:15

Go at them and let them worry about us.

Ognjen Mojovic
583 Posted 08/02/2013 at 15:25:27

Oh, yes!! Oh, we will beat them, and they will remember this upcoming Sunday as the day when great era of other Scot, than Alex Ferguson, coming in English Premier League!! HAHA!! 0-2 for Toffees! Mmmmm! Tasty!!!

Kevin Tully
584 Posted 08/02/2013 at 15:21:35

All the pressure is on them, so we should be able to play with a certain amount of freedom.

If we can squeak a win, I think the whole squad would believe that 4th spot can be achieved. Now they are 9 points ahead in the title race, they may just take their foot off a little, especially with one eye on he Real game in mid-week.

In fact, they are already talking about their C.L. game, so they may just be getting a little ahead of themselves.

Steve Edwards
593 Posted 08/02/2013 at 15:43:11

Simple answer, no. Reason, RVP, that twat Rooney and our leaky defence.

Andy Meighan
596 Posted 08/02/2013 at 15:55:30

Not a chance. A draw at best.

Like I said on a earlier post, hopefully they'll rest a few with Real Madrid in mind. But I still don't think we'll have enough to beat them. He's never won there and I see no reason to think it'll end now. The same with them across the park etc — he plops his kecks when he goes there and thinks a draw is the be-all and end-all... hope I'm wrong but somehow I don't think I will be.

Ray Roche
599 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:04:00

Chris Owens

Our draw at Old Trafford wasn't the reason they lost the League, after all, we beat Man City at home and lost away so we took 3 points off Man City and 1 off Man Utd. Man Utd threw the League away themselves. Still, I'm not THAT optimistic about Sunday.

Ian Taylor
601 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:11:43

'We tend to perform better against the bigger clubs'???

We have yet to win away from home in Moyes's tenure at ANY of the so called Big clubs.

Brian Waring
605 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:16:06

Kevin, you could say with them being 9pts ahead in the title race, the Manc's won't be under loads of pressure to win the game, because they know they have the breathing space of those 9pts. You could say the pressure is on us to get something out of the game because if Chelsea and Spurs both win they are 7 and 6pts ahead of us.

Adam Luszniak
607 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:20:49

Ian my comment doesn't preclude your stat. I was merely pointing out that we tend to pull out all of the stops for a team who should cream us, and struggle against lesser opposition.

Even if we don't win, I expect us to put up a good fight, and if we can keep heitinga off the field, we might have half a chance

Gerry Morrison
608 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:28:09

Of course we can beat them; we have done it once already this season.

Dave Whitwell
611 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:25:48

The answer to our defensive woes is simple, don't play heitinga. Must be Jags & Distin then either PIP/Coleman/Oviedo or the new lad at RB.

Leave Jelly out and let Anichebe carry on.

Make sure Johnny & Naismith get no where near the pitch.

Of course now I've said that i'll still be delighted if we win 2-0 and Johnny & Naismith are the goalscorers!!!!

Colin Glassar
612 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:32:39

Moyes will probably start with Neville, Heitinga and Naismith. If that's the case then we've got no chance.
Our record against the normal top 6 sides away from home, under Moyes, is nothing less than pathetic. He always goes for a draw and we usually end up losing.

Adam Luszniak
613 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:42:39

Colin I'd expect him to start with Neville at RB and johnny on the bench. Whatever you think of Moyes, I'm not sure he's daft enough to play johnny after tha last couple of games?

Shane Corcoran
617 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:44:17

Ian and Adam, until the game at OT last year I'd have agreed with Ian but the performance, or moreso the attitude to not just sit back away to the better teams away from home, was a major change in Moyes's approach. The only test since that was against City this season which I think was a positive performance, especially in the first half.

If we continue this approach we have a chance and it's better than the old approach. It's hard to back the blues but with Gibson and Mirallas and hopefully Neville at RB we have a chance.

Brian Waring
618 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:50:47

Scary thing is, I can see Naisnith starting the game because he is 'Hard working'

James Stewart
619 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:58:22

If Heitinga is at CB then there is no way in hell we will get anything.

Adam Luszniak
620 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:56:16

I think having Nev on the pitch will be an asset, as long as he plays in defence. Big game like this I think we need the old war horse in our starting line up.

I know his distribution aint great and I would favour Coleman for his attacking potential but nev has to be our most solid available RB?

John Keating
621 Posted 08/02/2013 at 17:03:20

Howard Neville, Jags, Distin, Baines, Mirallas, Osman, Gibson, Piennar, Fellaini, Anichebe.
Play as we did at Goodison first game then we have a chance of getting something.
If Fellaini is missing through injury I think he'll play Oviedo at RB and put Neville in the middle. As long as he keeps Heitinga on the bench.

Nick Entwistle
622 Posted 08/02/2013 at 17:11:29

Howard
Neville Jags Distin Baines
Fellaini Gibson
Mirallas Ossie Pienaar
Jelchebe

Tony J Williams
623 Posted 08/02/2013 at 17:20:36

"We have yet to win away from home in Moyes's tenure at ANY of the so called Big clubs" - So the Champions Man City and Champions League team Spurs aren't classed as big clubs then?

Back to the point.....fecking no chance, the way Howard is playing and the way our defence seem to be strangers....our lack of a forward in form and our midfielders looking knackered and useless.....then again, we got beat by Reading after twatting them for most of the game.

Jon Ferguson
627 Posted 08/02/2013 at 17:33:12

I say we throw the new lad in at the deep end. If Moyes rates him enough to sign him then he should be played when our first two choice right backs are out.

Howard
Stones Jags Distin Baines
Gibson Osman
Mirallas Felli Pienaar
Jelavic (or Anochebe)

James Morgan
628 Posted 08/02/2013 at 17:34:14

Tony,

It could be reworded to "we have a terrible away record under Moyes at the countries three most successful clubs."

Phil Walling
629 Posted 08/02/2013 at 17:07:42

A good win for the Blues should ensure Davey is SAF`s successor! If he goes there to shut up shop, he (and Everton) are stuffed.

The line-up will almost certainly see Capt Pip at right-back and Jags and Distin restored to the centre.

Can we win? Certainly — and I have a sneaky feeling....

Adam Luszniak
631 Posted 08/02/2013 at 17:56:52

I'm hoping Mirallas shines in this game, he's shown flashes of promise since his return from injury, but I'm still waiting for an immense goal from him.

Tony Marsh
632 Posted 08/02/2013 at 17:50:51

Can we win at Old Trafford, well it is possible if the desire to win is there. The problem is the desire to win doesn't exist with Moyes, its more of a Let's see what happens kind of mind set.

Under the David Moyes regime we have never won a single away game at any of the Old Sky 4 teams in what seems like a million years. Other so called lesser sides go to Anfield and Old Trafford and have a right good go.

We don't and that's the problem we will have in front of the world on Sunday. I fear the worst to be honest how we have avoided a real good hiding so far this season I don't know but every year we get one some were and this is all set up for it.

Another thing I can't understand is everyone above has Osman in there starting 11. WHY? It's a joke the lad is crap and he costs us more than he gives. I give up at times I really do.

Ged Simpson
634 Posted 08/02/2013 at 17:56:43

Apart from Coleman we will have our strongest team ? So we will see how good we are against the champions elect. If we win we are amazing. Draw - good result. If we lose - well we have a team that cost a lot lot less.

So take your pick.

Colin Glassar
638 Posted 08/02/2013 at 18:09:21

I think nev will start at RB. He can't be any worse then jags playing there. I think he'll go with this team;

Howard
Nev
Jags
Distin
Baines
Mirallas
Ossie
Gibson
Pienaar
Fella
Vic

Got a feeling this could be a 1-1 draw.

Frank McGregor
639 Posted 08/02/2013 at 18:13:05

I believe we may possibly snatch a win as Man Utd could be due for a defeat. One thing you all have already said: we must tighten up the defence.

Most of the goals we have given away have come from the left side of the Everton defence, which to me means we must have a method in place to cover for Baines when he is going forward. Two of the goals against Villa last week came from this situation.

Si Cooper
640 Posted 08/02/2013 at 18:05:40

Factors against include Coleman probably not available; Mirallas and Gibson still acquiring match fitness / sharpness; fatigue / injury / poor form affecting the likes of Osman, Fellaini and Pienaar.

Factors for come down to United not quite being the force they once were with definite midfield and defensive weaknesses.

If all our players are up for it and everything clicks we definitely have a chance, but realistically it is pretty slim.

Stuff realism for this one! COYB!

Denis Richardson
645 Posted 08/02/2013 at 19:04:34

Unlikley for us to win but its 11 v 11. If we hasve a go we have a chance, if we sit back and try for a draw then we'll definitely loose.

Ian Bennett
646 Posted 08/02/2013 at 19:11:27

Same team as Colin for me. If Coleman was fit he starts, that would be my only change. I would like to see a good pressing game, Fellaini, Osman and Pienaar perhaps rotating behind Big Vic or the goal scoring returning Jelavic.

Paul Ellam
648 Posted 08/02/2013 at 19:20:05

Can I have the draw now please? Yes, another draw!!!!

Peter Laing
655 Posted 08/02/2013 at 19:55:37

United have the small matter of a Champions League match next week against Real Madrid, a sizeable points gap ahead of Man City, Ferguson may be tempted to rest 3 or 4 players. If Moyes resists the temptation of playing for a draw a win is possible!

Keith Baker
656 Posted 08/02/2013 at 19:57:54

They have Real Madrid in the week so focus hopefully will be on that I just dread Moyes playing Johnny — you no how his mind works still baffled why he played him last week.

Mike Oates
657 Posted 08/02/2013 at 20:03:49

I think Fergie will want to win this match big time. He's even said the draw last year at Old Trafford cost them the league and he wont want a repeat, he will not want to give City a peep at the Championship. To me its simple, can we stop Van Persie . The answer will be a resounding NO if Heitinga plays, but he also has scored a few against us with Jags in the back 4 picking him up.

This would be a game were we should start with Fellaini right in the middle with Gibson taking on Carrick and Co , win the midfield battle and then get Fellaini upfront to cause arial damage again.

Overall a draw would be a bonus but if we a goal down early doors we'll get stuffed big time.

James Morgan
659 Posted 08/02/2013 at 20:19:23

http://www1.skysports.com/sportzine/28415/8477517/Everton-caution

Interesting little article.

Mike Gaynes
660 Posted 08/02/2013 at 20:16:48

Thanks for the laugh, Jon Ferguson (627). Hand an 18-year-old with no big-time experience his Prem debut with a start at Old Trafford? What could go wrong?

Jon, I think your Uncle Alex would love that. He'd tell RVP to slide over just a few yards to the left and have fun. He'd have three goals by halftime.

Dominic Bobadilla
665 Posted 08/02/2013 at 20:25:24

Have a close look at Man Utd's midfield: Valencia, Anderson, Giggs, Carrick, Nani, Young, Scholes, Cleverley, Kagawa. On a good day Everton's midfield should be proficient enough to outsmart and outbattle these guys. It is because of the undue respect shown by the English opponents that Man Utd tend to perform in excess of their actual abilities. Foreign teams like Atletico Bilbao, on the contrary, show no such respect for Man Utd, and therefore they are able to not only to win, but also to outplay their host.

David Hallwood
670 Posted 08/02/2013 at 20:55:15

Even though I think we should start with jags & Distin, I think Heitinger wouldn't be as bad as he was against Villa. He struggles against big strong forwards like Benteke and Kone when we played Wigan, and gets bullied too easily-all in all a bit of a shithouse really.

But both RVP & Rooney are clever forwards with lots of movement and Heitinga has got enough experience and positional awareness to give a good account of himself.

Can we win? Not if we gift soft goal(s) early doors.

Steavey Buckley
687 Posted 08/02/2013 at 22:24:44

Big game Sunday. Everton lose and Spurs win, 6pts the difference and the blues have yet to face Spurs away from home.

Andy Hegan
690 Posted 08/02/2013 at 22:46:45

No. Next!

Col Noon
691 Posted 08/02/2013 at 23:02:26

No.

Col Noon
693 Posted 08/02/2013 at 23:08:09

We will never see an Everton team managed by David Moyes win at Old Trafford.

Gary Poole
699 Posted 09/02/2013 at 00:05:46

Post 693 - hopefully the players will have a bit more gumption about them and won't roll over as easily as you clearly do.

Dick Fearon
702 Posted 09/02/2013 at 00:46:32

In the opening stanza of most games this season we have created enough chances to sew the game up. One of these days we will take those chances and I had a dream, actually it was more like wishful thinking, that United are in for a nasty shock.

Dick Fearon
703 Posted 09/02/2013 at 00:52:26

Apropos, I have just seen who is the ref and my dream has turned into a nightmare. Halsey thinks he has to be part of the action and makes sure he is.

It is sickening to see him continuing to hold pally wally chit chats with some players while coming down like a ton of bricks on others. His method smacks more of interfering in the game rather than just controlling it.

Alex Kociuba
704 Posted 09/02/2013 at 00:52:03

I've got a funny feeling Oviedo will start. I think he is an enigma: midfield, defence, wingback, left or right. Always seems enthusiastic and lively. Playing Neville at right back is the most suicidal decision you could make away at Man Utd. I think Oviedo needs dropping in at the deep end for his own benefit/development.

Harold Matthews
707 Posted 09/02/2013 at 01:53:19

United have scored in 61 consecutive home games. An amazing record which suggests we must score at least 2 goals to win.

Harold Matthews
715 Posted 09/02/2013 at 04:32:35

I just hope Gibson is on full alert because he will need to be if RVP cuts in from their right wing a la Gareth Bale. He will drift past Baines and Distin as though they weren't there because they are both incapable of tackling with their right peg and someone must pounce before he pulls the trigger. Let's hope they've been working on it.......and there's a strong likelihood of Kevin Mirallis doing the exact same thing to them. It seems to be his favourite move.

The one big plus is the fact that our present group of players absolutely revel in the big occasion. They seem to thrive on it. The task ahead looks impossible and probably is, but our boys will be up for it.

Nick Oakley
723 Posted 09/02/2013 at 08:42:08

I fear this is a must-win game. With Spurs and Chelsea playing at home and the RS breathing down our necks, 3 points is a must, even if it is at Old Trafford.

Danny Broderick
743 Posted 09/02/2013 at 11:38:11

There are weaknesses in this United team, as well as the obvious strengths.

GK - De Gea couldn't catch a cold. If they play their other keeper, he doesn't play too often, so that is a definite weak spot for them.

LB - I am far from convinced about Evra defensively, hopefully Mirallas can get at him.

Midfield - they obviously have good players, but I don't think the balance is right, & he could well be playing Giggs & Scholes tomorrow. Carrick will be neat and tidy without offering much of a threat, while Nani and Valencia don't seem to be firing on all cylinders.

Add in the fact that they have a big CL game in midweek, so I think we can get something. We will need everyone to play well, and it would probably be a draw rather than 3 points, but we can realistically get something tomorrow.

Col Noon
748 Posted 09/02/2013 at 12:09:51

Gary Poole # 699

"Post 693 - hopefully the players will have a bit more gumption about them and won't roll over as easily as you clearly do."

Do you mean like last Saturday against a 19th placed Villa side? Or a rock bottom Reading team that couldn't buy a win?

Mark Tanton
750 Posted 09/02/2013 at 12:12:28

We haven't got a hope. The writing is on the wall - we've not really turned in a good performance since I don't know when. If anything, I fear we'll get spanked to be honest.

Richard Pike
754 Posted 09/02/2013 at 12:42:31

I note that Sir has had a moan in the press about the scheduling of this fixture a mere three days (can you believe it??) before they take on Real Madrid in the Champions League. This means he is expecting us to work them hard. So yes, we can beat them, but we'll need a few things to drop our way.

Mike Keane
755 Posted 09/02/2013 at 12:42:16

Ten years and counting under Moyes without a victory at OT, Chelsea, Arsenal or across the park. In other words, no wins in 40 attempts! Has to end some time and might not get a better chance than tomorrow. Their top players will be on the bench at best. Another bleak prospect is we need at least a point or we could be below them next weekend unless West Brom or Swansea get something Anfield.

Mike Gwyer
770 Posted 09/02/2013 at 14:06:19

Col 693

Not sure how long you've been backing the blues or if you even made the trip to Old Trafford but winning there is fucking hard work. I'm also not sure if you have woken up this morning thinking Everton are really Barcel-fucking-lona and should win every time they run onto the pitch.

As for your comment "Moyes will never will at Old Trafford" - well in my time, which is since 1970, Everton have won 5 times - so in 43 games, that's been 5 wins. I guess you going to be a busy fucking boy slagging off all the managers who have had a pop at doing what hardly any team in the EPL does - winning at Old Trafford. Let's thank god for Kendall, I think 83, 90 and 92 (which was our last win at Old Trafford), Colin Harvey for 88 and Gordon Lee in 78.

I have made around 11 trips and seen one victory at Old Trafford. Yep, thats right ONE. That was in 1978 when Latchford scored twice, Colin Harvey was the boss and we got kicked to fuck for our troubles.

I think you need to bear in mind what you are asking for tomorrow; a win at Old Trafford - with 11 red's, SAF and 4 men in black all thinking the same thing.

Steavey Buckley
776 Posted 09/02/2013 at 14:51:35

The problem with Everton, can't keep a clean sheet often enough. Everton will be facing a team like Manu tomorrow who have 4 main strikers and wingers like Nani and Ashley (when available ) who can chip in with goals as well. Unlike Everton who are struggling to score goals except for Fellaini. So all eyes and minds of manu defenders will be focused on him. Result tomorrow, 2:1 to united. Unfortunately.

Mark Roberts
861 Posted 09/02/2013 at 19:29:48

The fact that Man City have just been beaten 3 - 1 at Southampton and Man Utd playing Real Madrid on Wednesday, I think, will give us a slightly better chance as I think they will play mostly their second string. Having said that, their second string is still quite a force, especially at Old Trafford.

I don't for one minute think that SAF would not be too bothered if his team did not win a football match but he has a massive game for his team on Wednesday and is already bleating about Real having an extra day's rest. So come on you Blues, go there with the belief that we can win and get after them!!!

Tom Bowers
869 Posted 09/02/2013 at 20:11:11

Everton can win if the defence gets tighter than they have been recently. Manure may not play all of their regular ''starters'' but we all know their bench players would walk into any other team so that may not be much of an advantage. Hopefully all Everton's regular starters including Fella will be fit and will play although Coleman may be the exceptiion.

Having said all that, it is at Old Trafford where no teams get any breaks from the officials so Everton will have to really earn their stripes to get a win, especially as Spurs and Arsenal won today.

Mike Oates
881 Posted 09/02/2013 at 22:40:52

The one thing which cant get of my mind - the state of the OT pitch, which my Man Utd mate tells me is absolutely rubbish. With the rain today and tomorrow expect it to cut up badly - it will seriously affect both teams who like to play fast on the deck football. Hope to hell it just doesn't completely screw the game up.

Trevor Lynes
924 Posted 10/02/2013 at 11:54:39

Mike..the pitch may well affect the game but its the normal condition pitches were in years ago.
The big advantage that UTD have is their bench.
They continually score late and its normally due to bringing on different strikers or midfield players which they have in abundance.
The bench is one of the biggest attributes the rich clubs have over the not so rich.

UTD always finish strong because they can afford to rotate whereas we cannot !
Our first eleven is our only asset, but they must be fit and injury free.
fatigue at this stage of the season will affect clubs with smaller squads infinitely more than the rich clubs.
Man Utd are the only club who are remaining consistent this season and they are running away with the title.

Our best chance is that ALL the players play to their utmost and keep pressing throughout the 90 minutes.
Our workrate and commitment must stop and spoil their game.

Richard Reeves
925 Posted 10/02/2013 at 12:01:17

Can we beat Man Utd? Yes.

Will we beat Man Utd? No chance, unless Moyes tells the players, "Look lads, I've been trying to crack this chestnut for over 10 years now but I don't know where I'm going wrong, I'll just leave it to you to play how you want to."

Kev Johnson
926 Posted 10/02/2013 at 12:05:51

Mike - how is a bad pitch going to lessen our chances of a result? If anything, it will benefit us.

Did anyone watch the France/Wales rugby game yesterday? The pitch was laughable!

Brian Waring
927 Posted 10/02/2013 at 12:07:45

Richard (#754) I can't blame Ferguson having a pop at their schedule. If it was us in their position,I reckon Moyes would be doing the same thing. What I don't understand , is that if the Mancs won the champions league, it would be a huge bonus fot the premier league.

Richard Pike
935 Posted 10/02/2013 at 12:59:46

Brian (927): my point is, if ManYoo were playing Wigan or QPR today I don't think Ferguson would have been making such a noise about it because he could rest his important players today. Ferguson believes we have a chance of winning so he can't afford to put out a weaker team against us. Well, after yesterday's results he could, but he won't. It isn't his style to not keep going for City's jugular.

Col Noon
105 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:21:24

Hi Mike #770

How does it go? Case in point?

Paul Andrews
139 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:21:42

Nope