Very reasonable article. Prepare to be attacked!

Brian I have another question to ask yourself. Imagine David Moyes sitting in the managers chair before the FA cup semi final with Spurs in '95. Do you believe that he would have been capable of not just getting that result but of also beating Man United in the final?

Top managers manage to get their players and the team performing to the top of their ability in games that win you something. Moyes has never once done that in 11 years in charge.

I don't mind getting beaten by a better team. There is always someone out there who s better than you that's just a fact of life. What I don't, and never will, accept is the sense of inertia and hopelessness which has been he dominant factor of king billy and his lacklustre manager. Every season, before every game we are fed the same old shit. We've got no money, we tried our hardest to get the player but it wasn't to be, our opponents today are really good and it's going to be difficult today etc, etc, etc..... Moyes and his boss are just so incredibly negative. Even though we know these fools have kept the club on the verge or permanent bankruptcy I would just one, only once like to hear the ginger one say something positive and go out with a gung ho attitude and say to the players, "this lot are shit, let's batter them". But I don't think it's in the ginger ones DNA and its deffo not in his smug, tightfisted chairman. Rant over.

In the league I would agree with you, that the monied clubs are invariably going to finish ahead of us, but how can we justify losing at home to Wigan Athletic in such a horrible manner, these are the games that define our hopes of 'winning' something, it's what Spurs, Arsenal and United did in their 'fallow' years. Chelsea also used the cups to help boost their profile before Roman came and bought them. If yesterday's performance had been a one-off, we would have been less than happy with it, but not as angry as we are today, when we reflect upon how many times this has happened.

Whilst the football had been good from Feb 2012 to about October 2012, that's it that's the whole period during 11 years in which we have been able to wax lyrical about the goals and the style of play, is that really good enough for any club with or without history.

I don't believe that any Evertonian expects the club to constantly challenge for a top 4 place and only a few alarmists believe we will be constant relegation candidates, but what we all wish to see is a team which plays football in the right manner with the right attitude, 2004-05 was acceptable from a 'dogs of war' point of view but most of the rest of what has been witnessed has been half-hearted, half-baked and most of all very very hard to watch.

Anybody who uses that phrase after the result yesterday needs a slap around the chops. If Everton are punching above their weight then what of the mighty Wigan and Swansea christ they must be featherweights having a heavyweight title shot if using the boxing analogy.

So we really "punch above our weight"? Are we not usually around where one would expect?

You contradict yourself almost straight away.

"The trophies always go to money".

Strange statement in a year when Swansea just won the cup in a final against Bradford. Wigan put us out how much do they spend?

The opposition was irrelevant yesterday it could quite easily have been anyone and we could have choked. There is a toxic atmosphere around the club at the moment.

Brian you only had to look at the hordes leaving GP yesterday to know the answer.

I am mystified by posts like these for what reason would you support EFC or any club beyond Chelsea and the Mancs if you think of football in these terms.

Football matches are meant to be COMPETITIVE!..... don't know how much simpler to put it.

Brian,

No matter how many times some of us say this, others just don't listen. We as Evertonians understand that finances dictate what happens in football — that's not the issue here. What myself and many others won't accept is the pitiful manner in which successive Moyes teams bottle out of important matches.

We won't accept the dire way in which Moyes has us playing. I can accept not winning trophies and don't expect to... but rolling over and playing dead isn't good enough for any Everton side.

We fans are sick to fucking death of hoofball and the idea to get as many defensive-minded players on the pitch as possible.

We are sick to death of the zero entertainment value we get for our money under Moyes. It's fucking gruelling to watch.

We are sick to fucking death of watching no-marks like Osman and Neville being first choice players while decent lads are not even considered for a start, Oviedo and Barkley to name but two.

We are sick to fucking death of Moyes standing on the touch line and ordering every player to do as he says, "You take the throw in," "You run over there," "You take the corner," "You do this, you do that..." — it's non-fucking-stop. The players aren't allowed any freedom of expression on the pitch, it's all the Moyes Way or the Highway. It's all so fucking sterile and boring. No wonder they are sick of this shite — just look at Jelavic.

It's the lack of winning mentality and the lack of creative flair that makes Moyes the dreary dull manager he is — NOT lack of money to spend.

Moyes represents not only Everton FC but the city of Liverpool. When did Scousers become soulless, cowardly, unimaginative, boring people lacking in guts and versatility? We are fighters who like to walk with a cocky swagger, cracking jokes and loving life... We love to be proud of our City and our football teams. We expect our football teams to be a part of what we are... Moyes takes all this away from us and I am ashamed of him for doing it.

Evertonians should never have to be ashamed of the club but that's what we feel now... Nothing to do with Cash or punching above our weight — it's all about pride and passion... end of story!

According to Doddy we average eleventh in the league under Moyes, he is the third highest paid manager in the league allegedly, we have players on £60k upto £75k a week, we have won nothing in his eleven years and have failed to beat the Sky four in over forty away games in those years, if that's punching above our weight then it's powder puff punching.
We are we're we spend for, however after eleven years you would of expected a little more in the cups, especially the league cup, but alls we have had is embarrassing exits against piss poor sides.

The sad thing is Moyes has a decent squad but refuses to use it. He prefers to play his tried and trusted even though it's obvious to all that many of them are running on empty and one or two, Neville & Naismith, just aren't good enough.

Brian,

Have to say...On the day after "Armageddon," you're asking for a kicking here..

If Moyes goes, he goes; But my concern is the lack of trust I have in Kenwright appointing THE manager, who, (on fresh air) can push us on, further than Moyes.

In significant part, it is thanks to David Moyes, that in a league becoming ever more polarised, the level of Evertonian expectation has been re-born. We are now in a position to attract a manager of proven quality. Not an up-and coming young manager, but someone with genuine pedigree.

Unless we become as nouveau-riche (and subsequently as soulless) as Man.City, or even get part way there, the same, or similar constraints are going to apply to whatever 'genius,' the MOB approve.

I'll charitably offer odds of one season before the wrath finally, and proportionately descends on where it ultimately belongs, the board.

So, whilst cursing Moyes to high heaven for yesterday's utter debacle, I'm genuinely scratching my head as to how good a successor Bill will recruit.

The Luvvie has a big decision to make...and compared to the unrecognisable mess of 2002, we are now, a fantastic proposition for an ambitious, high-class manager.

But if I'm honest, I can see him plumping for someone in the class of Nigel Adkins, admirable - yes, but not the calibre we need right now.

Kevin, he needs look no further than Spain or Germany for a decent manager who can work on almost on nothing. I want to see our academy players improve, and to come through the ranks. It's not that diificult. Built the academy and get players through, give them chances. In every major european league, they bring players through their academy's..seems we have stopped doing that...funny really, considering we have no money, you'd have thought it a major thing to do..but moyes clearly doesn't give a fuck about young players..he prefers shit like neville and osman and heitinga and others.

Something Moyes said a little while ago struck me to the core, something along the lines of:- "I'll go when the supporters have had enough of me. They will decide, it's their club not mine." Well, would you ever imagine Joe Royle saying that, Howard Kendall or elsewhere Alex Ferguson or for that matter Dalglish or Houllier for example. Not mine? Says it all.

I have been consistent in my appraisal of Moyes over the last eleven years. Ambitious, unemotional. Average. At best. Please do the decent thing and put us all out of our misery.

Interesting stuff Kevin 715 but what your post still boils down to when all is said and done is not so much 'better the devil you know' as who will fill his shoes. And that, at the end of the day, gets us not very far up the right road as surely change is now due.

That said, I agree wholeheartedly about putting trust for the right decision in the chubby hands of Dahling Luvvy BK. And, yes, I fear you're right, Adkins - he's a scouser right? - so that leaves me fucked. Good angle though, so you want ihm out and .... this is never said ... do you trust the impesario to get it right? Answer, no I don't.

Lovely post Tony Marsh, 705, always said yes the times you have invoked the culture and spirit of the greatest city on the planet to make a point like this.

James #699.
James, I don't actually contradict myself. What I wrote was....... There will be the odd "strange" cup winners, that's always gonna happen, but, on the whole, the trophies have gone to money. There's a difference mate.
Having said that I don't want to get into arguments with other Blues who will be hurting as much as me this morning
It hurt me to write what I did, a sort of realisation that my two lads, who I took to the match on Saturday, will never enjoy the feeling I felt watching "Rats" parade that trophy around Goodison.
When you write a post like mine you're always gonna forget bits and maybe word things badly, that doesn't mean I wasn't disgusted on Saturday, and it doesn't mean I haven't seen times when I just can't fathom out why we didn't beat, on paper, a lesser team.
Here comes a weird bit. I actually woke this morning wondering how I could have put it better because I knew the post wouldn't go down well, on the whole...and it came to me..
I drive a Qashqai (yeh yeh I know) and I like it, it suits my family's needs, and it's a decent motor. I wish it was a Range Rover Evoque. Why? Because the Range Rover is undoubtedly a better motor, more luxurious, etc etc...There's the odd time, when the lights change at the right time, that I'll get the drop on a Range Rover, and it puts a smile on my face, and pisses off the RR driver, but over the course of 12000 miles the RR outdoes my Qashqai in every respect....AND there's the odd time when the lights are right for others, or I'm daydreaming about winning the Euromillions so I can buy Everton, that I get done.....by a Vauxhall Corsa.
So basically we as a club are a Qashqai, and we got done on Saturday, by a Corsa...........

I'll get me coat!

Barry#704.

That's a bit insulting but I can understand your comment.

But may I ask, no offence meant, if you're married to a super model, a Hollywood actress.............me neither. Doesn't mean that now and again we both don't dream! But at the end of the day we're happy and we're loyal and we love our wives (Luckily they feel the same).....so why don't we both hold out for a supermodel????

Lots of supporters DO just "support" the big teams, that's why they have a worldwide fanbase. One of my 15 year old son's mates supports Chelsea FFS. He was born here, and has lived here all his lif.....you go figure!

Brian #871 - your analogy is a good one. We did get done by a Corsa on Saturday because the driver of the Corsa had made sure he had a full tank before he set off, knew where was going and kept his eye on the road. We, in contrast, were still trying to buckle up! :)

We've a few hard away games coming up so I suppose we had better
"Clunk Click" every trip!
Hear what you say Brian and you present a good argument mate but to watch our team play like Dinky toys against Tonkas on Saturday was embarrissing lad.
We need a new driver.

I,like many others,have often thought that there is more to be wrung out of our squads (under Moyes) than he has managed. If that is the case then it's not about punching above our weight,but more about under-achievement. For me the biggest failing in his management has been poor psychology,and his tendency to "lose" players. When we opened against Blackburn a couple of seasons back there was optimism in the air,but it disappeared with the selection of his usual mates,and a 1-0 defeat - season over! A freshening up,that day,and a bit of positivity could have made all the difference,but it's just not in his blood. It's time for change now.

Corner to defend
0 - 3 down
Quarter Final
Crowd baying

Everton leave no-one upfield
That, says it all for me
(and, no, I don't believe the players chose to do that)

And to think, we used to moan about Gordon Lee

You take a lot of flak off lads on here Tony, but one thing you can't be slagged off for, your passion for the club, and your post #705, is fucking spot on!

Well I'm surprised I didn't get absolutely savaged to be honest.......

Tony#704. I completely agree with what you say mate. I think Moyes has done wonders in steadying the ship and preventing us flirting with relegation every season, but he has shown his limits time and time again.

I think the problem we have is that our chairman has realsied that Moyes will toe the party line and not cause him problems. Pay him an arm and a leg and "buy" his obedience if you like.

We HAVE played some great football this season, but I agree there's something terribly wrong wqhen a team can't raise themselves for a game like that.

We DO need a clearout, without a doubt. What I'd have given to have some of those big, strong, pacey midlfielders that embarassed the hell out of us on Saturday.

BTW. Did anyone notice Mirallas shove Fellaini in the back after his petulant, back turning antics...........spoke volumes for me!

Phil #204

You mention Gordon Lee in an almost derogatory manner....let's not forget that Gordon Lee came alot closer to winning the league championship than David Moyes EVER will

Tony Marsh...you've got it spot on YET AGAIN mate....for years I've been one of your few supporters on here whilst the majority refused to see the facts and defended the clueless Moyes through shear blind loyalty. The time has now surely come for him to go.

For the record I held a season ticket at Goodison from 1965 -1982 and then again from 1996-2011 (the intervening years I actually played at a high level and was acutually lucky enough to earn some cash whilst doing so)...during this time I followed the team home and away...home and abroad ). Throughout those years I experienced some great moments but in the main there has been a lot of despair especially during the Walter years...but throughout those times NOT ONCE did I ever consider not going to the match...

Then in 2011 (having been a detractor of Moyes on here for along time) I just got fed up of watching some of the worst football I had EVER seen at Goodison Park...I got fed up of Moyes bottling EVERY important game we wre involved in...and I git fed up of his excuses so I decided enough was enough and I stopped going.

Yes Moyes has stopped us being annual relegation candidates but that is it !! How anyone one who has NOT won a trophy can be considereda GREAT manager is totally beyond me.... IMO he is tactically inept and is style of play (other than HOOFBALL) is non-existant...most of all the man is a coward !!

He's a coward when he goes to Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal & the RS...most of the time he's a coward when we play them at home and he's a coward in EVERY important game we play...this has been prove on separate occassions at Wembley in recent years and that's to name but two occassions....the list of his failures is a very long one,,,even at Preston....he gotb them to play-off finals but he NEVER won one.

Even though I am no longer willing to spend my hard earned cash to watch the tripe that Moyes churns out I still love Everton...always have always will...but I will not return to Goodison until this clueless idiot is gone !!

There on some on here who la

...(cont from #406)..

there are some on here who laud Moyes, are happy with the job he does and truly believe he IS a great manager....I (like Tony Marsh) am NOT one of those people..Finances have nothing to do with his inability to win a trophy...he's been on the brink on a number of occassions... but it's his own lack of courage that have prevented him from doing so... NOT lack of cash...Saturday's debacle was just another in a long line of failures in important games

To me David Moyes will ALWAYS be remembered as the man who drove me away from Goodison Park....and I hate him for that !!