Season 2012-13
Opinion
Talking Points
Could derby win be clincher?
David Moyes is an honourable man. When he tells us that he will make his decision on whether to stay or go at the season's end... and not before, I believe him.
But there is one event which, were it to happen, would, I think, escalate that decision by several weeks. And that, my friends, is a victory in the Anfield derby game on 4th May!
Pressure, what pressure?
Richard Dodd, Posted 02/04/2013 at 14:35:16
Reader Comments
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450 Posted 02/04/2013 at 16:47:56
Let's not get distracted by the other lot and concentrate on the next game and then each game as it comes — that's plenty enough to keep my interest and attention, I don't need to worry about the other lot until kick-off time on the day in question.
452 Posted 02/04/2013 at 16:56:46
454 Posted 02/04/2013 at 16:57:47
Moyes doesn't have a Big Game mentality. Moyes is a choker. Moyes can't beat the Shite away from home. I think it's about 3 wins from 20 odd in Derby games, all at Goodison Park. Even Walter Smith won at Anfield and that just about says it all.
Roll Over and Die before Fight and Try — that is the Moyes Derby Day Motto.
464 Posted 02/04/2013 at 17:40:15
466 Posted 02/04/2013 at 17:36:56
467 Posted 02/04/2013 at 17:34:46
Moyes is honourable and you believe him?
Didn't he also say he would make a decision in January?
The man is stalling, waiting to see if anyone else comes knocking for his services. He won't sign a contract after the Derby, in June when that phone call hasn't materialised he will sign a new contract and tell us he was going to all along.
471 Posted 02/04/2013 at 17:41:36
Is that why we get the Anny Road (Roll Over and Die), we have to be FAT, my missus is FAT and she tries and fights ...
Ouch! sorry luv! Ow!! Shopping! OK Luv!
484 Posted 02/04/2013 at 18:37:28
But problem is there is little point in twisting arm of someone if they don't have the money
488 Posted 02/04/2013 at 18:53:19
496 Posted 02/04/2013 at 19:03:50
He steadied the ship when he first came and we all thank him but let's not forget that every other manager for half a century before Moyes avoided the drop, so it's a little extreme to say we would no longer be in the top flight were it not for Moyes.
May as well say had he been given a bit more money we would have won the Champions League!
499 Posted 02/04/2013 at 19:15:17
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/quiz/2013/apr/02/brendan-rodgers-david-brent-quotes-quiz
500 Posted 02/04/2013 at 19:20:21
Before you get too excited, what is Moyes's record at Anfield in 11 years?
503 Posted 02/04/2013 at 17:43:32
Bill is said to be playing hardball!
506 Posted 02/04/2013 at 19:31:21
Get it signed, I say!
512 Posted 02/04/2013 at 19:40:49
518 Posted 02/04/2013 at 19:27:15
532 Posted 02/04/2013 at 20:17:57
537 Posted 02/04/2013 at 20:29:56
Be honest, if Moyes turned around tomorrow and said he was not signing a new deal, who would you want as manager?
549 Posted 02/04/2013 at 20:50:12
The RS will go hammer and tongs to win that game. Its not that they are better because they are not, it's just all about attitude. I am not normally a pessimistic sort when it comes to our games and It's strange, because I can see us winning any other game, except that one. I just know that we will bottle it, with Moyes leading the way.
552 Posted 02/04/2013 at 21:02:59
633 Posted 03/04/2013 at 01:25:19
637 Posted 03/04/2013 at 03:02:33
641 Posted 03/04/2013 at 04:53:28
642 Posted 03/04/2013 at 06:01:21
648 Posted 03/04/2013 at 07:25:35
654 Posted 03/04/2013 at 08:16:21
Though I agree about the Derby, we will probably lose.
660 Posted 03/04/2013 at 09:00:56
682 Posted 03/04/2013 at 11:18:38
Yes, Moyes has a dreadful record against Liverpool. But please tell, who besides Royle has got a good record against Liverpool?Nobody. Not even Kendall.
We won @ Anfield in 1984 after how many years? 13? Kendall lost 2 cup finals (84 milk cup and FA cup) in 84 and 85. Harvey lost 1 FA cup final to them in 89.
Yes, we won the Charity Shield in 86 by beating them. But even in our 87 Championship winning season, we didn't best them. (Dave Long, even the spirit of Ratcliffe, Sheedy & Sharp couldn't do that much more.)
Of course, it's true none of them above have got 11 years at it like Moyes. For that, Moyes looks worst off. But an Everton manager losing to Liverpool is not an anomaly. It's the norm. Joe Royle is the exception.
693 Posted 03/04/2013 at 13:19:13
716 Posted 03/04/2013 at 15:34:57
727 Posted 03/04/2013 at 16:43:08
736 Posted 03/04/2013 at 17:11:41
I agree completely that it's a poor record and obviously for us fans we'd love to beat Liverpool every time we played them but I just don't get the big hang up about his record at certain clubs. If we'd won at Anfield and Old Trafford 2 or 3 times each but lost the record we have against the likes of Sunderland, Fulham, Man City etc would that make him a better manager somehow? I don't think so personally.
Poor records are part of football, for all clubs and all managers. You could look at the fact that Moyes broke hoodoos at Elland Road and White Hart Lane, that his record at home to Man Utd is better than most, that home to the clubs mentioned above it is almost faultless and that it was a fair few years before he joined that we had last won at Old Trafford or Arsenal.
Similarly the 'big game choker' is something that gets redefined to suit the argument (Wigan is now used as an example of big game choking by many, although the semi-final always appears to have been the cut off previously - clearly believing that a QF was a big game would have meant he hadn't choked in his previous 3 and that just wouldn't do).
740 Posted 03/04/2013 at 17:38:36
David Moyes's Everton have reached the last eight of the FA Cup 3 times in 11 years (2009, 2012 and 2013) something Walter Smith could only dream about as he only got there three times in 4 years (1999, 2000 and 2002). Admittedly he never won one... but two of them were away from home.
773 Posted 03/04/2013 at 18:55:49
Sorry, Richard, this has no legs I'm afraid.
778 Posted 03/04/2013 at 19:44:35
782 Posted 03/04/2013 at 19:54:39
Certainly you're right in saying that the future is unknown, only that I really don't think the last 11 years has been that terrible (my implication being that Leeds and Portsmouth fans could tell you what terrible really feels like).
784 Posted 03/04/2013 at 19:55:27
will no doubt get slated by Mike Gaynes now but it's the truth: we shit ourselves, they intimidate us, we don't them. They have even turned us over a couple of times with ten men if I'm right. It's about time we went there and showed them the respect they show us — and that's sod all.
825 Posted 03/04/2013 at 21:50:59
There is some quality playground logic on these forums!
832 Posted 03/04/2013 at 22:02:00
Moyes won 2 of those Sixth Round ties, he lost the last one against Wigan a few weeks ago. Moyes does not have a good record in big games — that's a fact! sadly.
Playground logic? I was just showing up the fact that our FA Cup record under Moyes is abysmal, if even Walter Smith could get us to the last 8 in 3 out of his 4 years in charge. BTW, Walter was also in charge the last time Everton won across the park.... and no, I don't think Walter was a better manager than David Moyes... but that doesn't mean that David Moyes is a living legend either.
877 Posted 04/04/2013 at 00:28:03
889 Posted 04/04/2013 at 06:09:59
Have you noticed that, when teams chase and harry Liverpool, they tend to retreat and make mistakes that leads to goals against them.
Take the recent game they played against Southampton. The Saints battled them from start to finish. Even when Coutinho pulled a goal back just before half-time, they did not lose their confidence. They came out in the second half and gave Liverpool the same treatment as in the first half. The result, a 3-1 win to Southampton.
Compare that with last week's game with Aston Villa. In the first half, Villa did exactly the same as Southampton. They harried Liverpool, crisply passed the ball around them, and made chance after chance against a back-paddling Liverpool side. Then what happened! In the second half, they reverted to what Everton normally do – that is, try to protect the lead, and invite pressure on themselves. The result, Liverpool walked away winners.
Unless we have the same spirit as Southampton – to keep on going even after taking the lead and continue to pummel the shaky Liverpool defence – we haven't got a chance of getting anything from the game. We all know what needs to be done. Trouble is, do our players have the heart and spirit to deliver.
892 Posted 04/04/2013 at 07:19:00
941 Posted 04/04/2013 at 13:25:08
I think the R/S are exactly that – shite – and we'll prove that come the day.
I believe that as long as Mirallas, Fellaini and Baines are fit and on their normal game, we'll send a lot of Norwegians and southerners home unhappy.
946 Posted 04/04/2013 at 13:46:02
Earlier this season we played them without Gibson and Pienaar with a half fit Fellaini and Mirallas who also went off injured. The midfield in the second half was Gueye Osman Neville Naismith and we still gave them the run around.
Arteta used to get injured before every derby, it was like some sort of running joke, one season he'd just torn apart Villa a week earlier before of course pulling his groin in training; step in Zinedine Kilbane. Another time, Hibbert broke his rib in training the week before, step in Segundo Castillo.
Obviously it helps if the players missing aren't enforced by the manager (see last season's debacle) but for once it would be nice to go there with our first 11 all fit and in form – god forbid the notion of them ever having anyone injured when they played us might actually come to pass one of these days...
957 Posted 04/04/2013 at 12:41:31
You inadvertently make a very interesting point though, in refuting that he's a living legend, because very very few people in my experience ever suggest he is. I certainly don't, and believe me he sometimes infuriates me, but I think much of the criticism that comes his way from people like yourself is laughable. For example your assertion that his FA Cup record is 'abysmal'.
It's not great, granted, but abysmal? A quick enquiry shows me that Spurs and Villa (I think most people agree that these 2 are comparable clubs to Everton in the majority of ways) have reached 2 and 1 semi final respectively in the time that Moyes has been here, with no finals between them. Villa have also been eliminated in the 3rd round on 6 occasions in this time. Seems a tad harsh then to proclaim Moyes' 2 semis and 1 final as 'abysmal', no?
236 Posted 05/04/2013 at 14:46:26
Great post, sums it up.
241 Posted 05/04/2013 at 14:49:14
607 Posted 06/04/2013 at 18:21:33
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446 Posted 02/04/2013 at 16:41:42