Toffeeweb - Talking Points - Do We Still Have European Hopes?

Do We Still Have European Hopes?

I was watching the Sunday Supplement this morning and Martin Lipton (Football Correspondant at the Daily Mirror) said something quite interesting. Here's what he said verbatim:

"If Liverpool win this and win their remaining fixtures, and just knick Everton for 6th, and Chelsea win the Europa League but don't finish 4th, Liverpool get into Europe. There's an extra place in the Europa League next season. 6th could could still be a Europa League place if there was a series of other events."

Now after today's result it looks increasingly likely that Everton will finish 6th. In fact a home win against West Ham next week would confirm Everton in 6th place.

So if 6th place might have been good enough to get Liverpool into Europe then surely 6th place might be good enough to see Everton in Europe?

I cannot quite understand what Martin Lipton was talking about. If Chelsea win the Europa League but don't finish 4th?? But, even if Martin Lipton was confused explaining it, surely he is correct in saying a series of events can make 6th a European spot?

Can anyone confirm Martin's statement? Surely the football correspondent for the Daily Mirror knows what he's talking about and if he says 6th can make Europe then we might still be on for European football next season yet.

And I think European football will be a big factor in David Moyes big decision over staying or leaving...

Dick Brady, Essex Posted 05/05/2013 at 21:03:14

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Michael Kenrick
377 Posted 05/05/2013 at 15:57:39

This topic still seems to be causing mass confusion despite Lyndon's definitive analysis, posted earlier.
I may well collect posts from other threads that touch on this, and the the really crash Fair Play League nonsesne.

Chris Jones [Burton]
447 Posted 05/05/2013 at 17:59:12

When we beat West Ham at home and guarantee 6th place, the result will mean we finish above the red shite. I read that this will have us finish above them in consecutive seasons for the first time since 1937. Discuss.

Ross Edwards
449 Posted 05/05/2013 at 18:05:30

Great achievement Chris to finish above them for 2 years running. Shows that the tide is finally beginning to turn. Something Stevie G la seemed to acknowledge in his Sky interview post match. The very fact they are bothered about where we finish underlines the shifting of power.
You just feel that rather than finishing 1 place above them, we really should have finished 3 places above them in 4th.

Nick Entwistle
450 Posted 05/05/2013 at 18:13:17

It's not an achievement as such, their position is entirely unrelated to our own. It is though, very pleasing.

When you have money to burn, more is expected by the owners. If they're 7th next season, and why not, then goodbye Rodgers.

Maybe a nice Europa League campaign through the Fair Play League will be enough to see them completely fail on all fronts – once again.

So long Suarez.

Eric Myles
458 Posted 05/05/2013 at 18:29:38

Nick #450 is fair play qualification an entitlement or is it still dependent on FA nomination?

I know the FA will do anything the can to keep the RS in Europe as they have shown before, but they can't be so shameless as to noinate them for 'fair play'!!

That would be a gross misacarriage of justice.

Patrick Murphy
460 Posted 05/05/2013 at 18:40:34

This is from the Official Uefa site but it is from a couple of season ago, strange how it all seems to be wrapped in a cloak of secrecy and that the current tables are about a month out of date.

The Respect Fair Play assessments are made by the official Uefa match delegates, based on criteria such as positive play, respect for the opposition, respect for the referee, behaviour of the crowd and of team officials, as well as cautions and dismissals.
The three associations allocated an additional place in the first qualifying round of the Uefa Europa League will be entitled to enter the club that won their domestic top-division fair play competition.
If this club have already qualified for European competition, the second-placed team in the domestic fair play competition may be entered, and so forth. It is even possible for a side RELEGATED to the second division to qualify for the Uefa Europa League as a result of EXEMPLARY conduct during the domestic championship.

Richard Dodd
461 Posted 05/05/2013 at 18:38:36

Eric: you are overlooking UEFA Regulation 68.72. viz:–

'If the coefficient of an English Premier League club is more than 7.556 over the past 20 years and that club has, when finishing no lower than 8th whilst being amongst the top 6 in its league's Fair Play table, it shall automatically be awarded a place in the following season's Europa League competition at an entry point of its choice.'

It is, therefore, unreasonable of you to suggest that there is any conspiracy afoot to award RS a place in the Europa League.

Brian Harrison
470 Posted 05/05/2013 at 19:27:32

Richard Dodd

Brendan Rodgers has said that they will not accept a place in the Europa league via the fair play system. He also said that they are committed to a summer tour of Asia and won't disrupt their plans to play in the early rounds of the Europa League.

Ross Edwards, as for your suggestion that Rafa win Manager of the Year when he took control of Chelsea they were 4 or 5 points behind Man Utd but will more likely finish nearer 20 points behind them.

Richard Dodd
471 Posted 05/05/2013 at 19:51:44

Surely you realised thid afternnoon that Rodger says onr thing one moment and the opposite the next. He is from the BK school of bullshit (Irish collegiate).
If they are offered a place then they will take it,believe me!

Steve Pugh
483 Posted 05/05/2013 at 20:24:00

To everyone curious about the Fair Play League, Liverpool are second behind Arsenal. Mainly because of the respect they show the referee, the respect that they show the opposition and for the behaviour of club officials of the pitch. I kid you not. The club well known for not harassing referees has 172, second worst in the league, whilst the rs have 190. The only thing I can say about the fair play league is that it isn't.

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/fair-play.html will show everything you need to know.

Roman Sidey
507 Posted 05/05/2013 at 21:13:10

I hope the RS do play in Europa next season. I have this suspicion that it kills them on the inside to be in the 2nd tier competition when they see it as a God-given right to be in ECL.

Patrick Murphy
509 Posted 05/05/2013 at 22:03:28

They will if they have a choice decline the invitation purely for financial reasons, a lucrative tour of Asia or India or wherever it is they are going will earn them far more loot and that's what the game is all about these days.

David Price
517 Posted 05/05/2013 at 22:34:18

From the Premier League web site:

English winners of the UEFA Europa League will enter at the Group Stage, gaining an extra domestic place only if they fail to qualify through other means for the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League. If the holders of the UEFA Europa League have already qualified for Europe, no extra domestic place will be gained.

In short, no, 6th place does not qualify.

Dick Brady
519 Posted 05/05/2013 at 22:43:54

So was Martin Lipton talking out of his arse? Why would he say 6th can gain a Europa League spot if the correct series of events happen?

Patrick Murphy
521 Posted 05/05/2013 at 22:49:14

Dick maybe to pacify the millions of Dark Side supporters around the globe?

David Price
522 Posted 05/05/2013 at 22:48:45

Only if it was Chelsea finishing 6th and winning the Europa Cup.

Al Reddish
525 Posted 05/05/2013 at 23:01:16

What bugs me is why would he go on about the shite getting Europe for finishing 6th? Why not 'any team that finishes 6th?'

Patrick Murphy
526 Posted 05/05/2013 at 23:15:21

Al maybe because the Dark Side have the power of persuasion and may have been able to cry their way into the competition which they still might if we cock-up next weekend. I hope Chelsea get beat by Benfica which will put the whole thing to bed once and for all.

Alasdair Mackay
535 Posted 06/05/2013 at 00:13:31

Was it last season that every team in the top 8 got into Europe, apart from us in 7th?

This year - we will finish 6th and every other team in the top 7 will get into Europe (R.S. via the fair play system). You can see it coming a mile off!!

The irony of a proven racist with a history of simulation, cheating and biting chunks out of his opponents getting to play European football because of a fair-play table, should not escape anyone, by the way!

Paul Ferry
541 Posted 06/05/2013 at 01:15:27

AAgghhhh, stop this now. Read Lyndon. Dick Brady aka Brody largest WUM on the live forum and so it continues. We will not be in Europe next season. There is not a plausible scenario to make that happen. When will it sink in? Why do people still post about this?

Chris Jones
547 Posted 06/05/2013 at 02:16:35

Okay, so unless Spuds lose three on the trot and we beat West Ham and Chelsea (yeah, right) we don't get into Europe. But what happens if Wigan go down? If you were their chairman, wouldn't you want to focus on getting back into the PL as soon as possible? Let's face it, that's where the money is, not the Europa League. Would they risk the fans' ire and decline to enter, thus opening up a spot for the team finishing 6th?

Paul Ferry
549 Posted 06/05/2013 at 02:39:32

Hadn't thought of that Chris, nice one

Mike Keane
560 Posted 06/05/2013 at 06:06:22

We can forget about another of our famous forays onto the Continent for another year. Well almost! The only way we can make it now is if Spurs pick up one point or less in their last 3 games and we pick up 2 handsome wins against West Ham and Chelsea.

As a 30-year plus season ticket holder who has foregone away games over the last few years in this country (foreign channel outweighs standing for 90 mins at Eastlands, Stamford Bridge etc), I made it my business to go to Donetsk, Sittard, Villarreal, Nuremberg, Fiorentina etc – even the fateful trip to Bucharest!

There is something very special about watching us abroad. I was one of the 20 odd who saw us in a preseason tournament in Aosta under Mike Walker against Torino and Lazio in 1994. I would confidently speculate that this was the lowest number of Blues at first team games in living memory (if not ever)!

Anyhow, the Fair Play situation. We are not even in the top half of the Fair Play League standings at the last count. Furthermore, England was fourth at the last checkpoint and only the top 3 get a place. Our not so friendly neighbours (another diabolical decision today!) are the best placed but Brenda has already said they will not be taking up the offer (prearranged lucrative Far East and Australian trips methinks). Next in line are Southampton with even Fulham, Norwich, Reading and Wigan ahead of us... ie, forget it!

Anyone remember pre seasons in Bruges, Dordrecht, Neuchatel – halcyon days! Oh well, maybe next year....

Paul Kelly
564 Posted 06/05/2013 at 07:05:35

Basically, if we come 6th, were not in Europe.

If those T**TS across the park do, they ( UEFA ) will change the rules so they can.

Happened before, will happen again.

Dick Brady
567 Posted 06/05/2013 at 07:58:05

But read Martin Lipton's comments. He said if Liverpool finished 6th there was a series of events which could see them qualify for Europe. So if those events would work for Liverpool then surely they would work for us finishing 6th?

Why would Martin Lipton say it if it wasn't true?

Paul Kelly
570 Posted 06/05/2013 at 08:20:22

Dick, to answer your question, ( sort of ) it was to do with the fair play rule ( which was mentioned earlier in the post ) that because of their "fair play" record they cold get into europe via the back door.

Rodgers stated that they wouldn't except it, but then again they all stood by rat boy knowing he was a racist c**t.

Paul Kelly
571 Posted 06/05/2013 at 08:31:33

'could' not 'cold'.

Tony Cheek
583 Posted 06/05/2013 at 09:09:47

Is everyone so certain we will finish in front of the RS. If we don't beat West Ham then its going to be a nervy last game against Chelsea. Hopefully Chelsea have already qualified for the CL before that, and have nothing to play for. But no doubt the Fat Controller with his love for the reds will be whipping them on. So just save it for now, nothing is settled!

Brian Waring
592 Posted 06/05/2013 at 09:20:09

We're always whinging about having a small squad, not enough quality etc, the last thing we need is the Europa league, it's a waste of time financially as well.

Tony Marsh
604 Posted 06/05/2013 at 09:54:54

I really hope the Shite do qualify for the Europa League. I love watching them slog halfway around the world every week playing Thursday night and bombing out on a Sunday. The longer they stay in the competition the better.

I reckon Spurs would've pissed a 4th place finish if not for the Europa League. The more Liverpool's domestic campaign can be hindered, the better it is for us. Let's face it – we don't have the squad or the manager to compete in any additional European ties. I know RS fans hate being in the EL as they see the CL as their birthright.They hate having their noses pressed up against the Champions League window while all the big boys have a party.

I say let them have a Fair Play slot and watch them suffer. We don't need it – that's for sure.

Mike Allison
608 Posted 06/05/2013 at 10:05:02

Chelsea would have to win the Europa League and finish 6th for an extra space to be created. That now can't happen.

We need 3-5 extra players in our squad to handle a league and cup campaign, let alone Thursday nights in Europe. Don't get me wrong, I'd still rather be in it, but Uefa have ruined it by making it not worth being in except for the 'status' of being a club playing European football.

Paul Kelly
612 Posted 06/05/2013 at 10:25:26

Sorry Brian, the Europa league would be a breath of fresh air to our success starved club.

Would be great for an away day in Europe. Ajax hopefully,

Tony Farrell
627 Posted 06/05/2013 at 11:21:57

[Post moved from another thread]

Please somebody tell me what I heard over the weekend is horseshit: If Uefa decide to accept another English team into next season's Europa League, they will invite the team who's top of the Fair Play League. (Remember Fulham?) Well ironically, I was told the Darkside hold that position.

There are plenty of statos on this site, please put me out of my misery.... How the hell can them pricks go into a competition with a vampire in their side (fair play? Biting an opponenent???) Mind you, knowing them spawny arseoles, they would be allowed in.

Please tell me it isn't so.

Ralph Basnett
632 Posted 06/05/2013 at 11:48:42

Europa qualification would be a disaster right now, small ageing squad that would only be embarrassed just so you can have a night out in Europe?

If supporters want a night out in Europe go and watch any game.

Without Europa league do you think the small,shite squad would have finished below us? Or spuds and Chelski still fighting for champions league qualification?

Without an influx of five or six ready to play players, and the use of youth both of which we know is not going to happen in the Kenshite/Moyes reign we should make ourselves satisfied with cup runs and finishing above the shite until we either have new owners,or we buy a couple of players and introduce youth to getnusmto the champions league then invest.

Ross Edwards
642 Posted 06/05/2013 at 13:13:59

Kenwright, DM, and most of the players are to blame. Sunderland was the nail in the Europe coffin.

James Martin
644 Posted 06/05/2013 at 13:27:52

Ralph that small squad of Liverpool you are referring to finished below us last year without European football. This year they played most of their kids in the preliminary rounds and in away games. They have a massive squad anyway as well. We've also had some of our best league finishes when playing in Europe. Doesn't look like we'll get it this season but I'd never turn it down.

Richard Dodd
646 Posted 06/05/2013 at 13:37:56

Well, if our small and ageing squad is so ill-equipped to compete in the Europa League, why all the angst about missing out on Top 4 which would bring far greater Euro challenges with it?

It seems our club is damned if they do and damned if they don`t. It`s all academic, anyway!

Ralph Basnett
701 Posted 06/05/2013 at 13:57:27

If you get champions leagues ageing squad can come bottom of its mini league and rake in loads of money as well as putting us 'out their' as opposed to Europa cup where you play twice as many games for no money,, basic Maths really!!!!!!!!!!

Brian Cleveland
910 Posted 07/05/2013 at 16:39:06

Our way into the Europa League is as follows: Spurs lose two and draw one; we win both our games... same goal difference between us if those defeats and wins are all by a single goal... but Spurs then would be above us because they've scored more goals. So they need to lose one of those by more than one goal or we need to win one of ours by more than one goal. So the scenario is as follows:

Tomorrow:

Chelsea 1 Spurs 0

This weekend:

Everton 2 West Ham 0 (yea we're gonna get more than one goal!!)
Stoke 1 Spurs 0 (and the Stoke carthorses injure Bale and a few others in the process)

Next weekend:
Chelsea 0 Everton 1 (a goal in the first minute followed by 89 minutes of pinball in our box!)
Spurs & Sunderland draw

That sees us through with us one goal better off than them in GD...

Am I dreaming? We can but hope!

Nick Entwistle
014 Posted 09/05/2013 at 13:49:35

Unfortunately with two games to go, we're still in fear of Europa League.

Some parting gift.

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