What do we ask of our new manager?

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The King is dead, long live the King! Moyes is no more — at least as manager of Everton — and interesting though the inquests about his triumphs and failings may be, we must now turn to the task ahead for his successor.

Now I can’t imagine there’s a job description for the post anymore that the general rules of recruitment will be applied to the way our club will seek out his successor. There won't be a psychometric test, personality profile, and all the other gobbledegook most of us have to suffer in our pursuit of a new job, just as applicants won't have to fill in an application form.

The post will eventually be filled by someone with whom Bill Kenwright ‘feels at home’ and who knows how to behave in front of Lady Seagrove.

What we don’t know of course are the aims and objectives, targets, priorities and, dare I say it, action plans that the person appointed will work to.

Will he control ‘all football matters’ as Moyes so insisted on? Will his brief extend to all levels of players, teams and staff or will, as the continentals prefer, he be seen as merely ‘the first team coach?

Will he be expected to encourage a return to ‘The School of Science’ style of play which dominated those far-off days when Everton were great and had a motto that meant something like ‘Nothing but the Best‘? Or, as so many fear, will it just be enough to keep us in the top half?

Of course, we’ll never know what will be expected of the new man by the hierarchy but what would you be wanted from him if you were invited to be involved in the appointment process?

Answers to BK, please. After all, this club wants to know how its fans feel on major issues, don’t it?

Richard Dodd, Formby     Posted 26/05/2013 at 16:17:25

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Tristan Kerr
557 Posted 27/05/2013 at 05:29:56
Simple for me play good football and bring in the younsters. We have to go the german model, totally revamp our youth system as we are not producing enough talent for the money that gets poored into finch farm. We be a bit of a yo yo club for a while but if it works like barca or dortmon it will be worth waiting for. Step forward mr martinez.
Tristan Kerr
558 Posted 27/05/2013 at 05:35:13
Oh I forgot to mention that at all youth levels they should have the same tactics formation style of play as the first team right from the 10 year olds to the big boys.
Eric Myles
563 Posted 27/05/2013 at 05:59:52
I fear that a new manager that has the qualities we want and need to take us forward will do a Trevor Birch and will have told BK where to stuff his job before a ball is kicked in the new season.
Paul Andrews
568 Posted 27/05/2013 at 07:14:54
Simple.
"Take the players you have available and play with a more positive mentality than the last manager.
Turn at least 5 of the 15 draws ( 15 being the most draws that any team in the Prem had) into wins and it`s 10 more points than this season.
No need for you to go gung ho playing any of the big teams,but under no circumstance do you take a forward thinking player off for a defensive minded player and revert to defending the 18 yard box with 20 minutes to go.Especially at home.Especially against the likes of Norwich etc."
Derek Thomas
574 Posted 27/05/2013 at 07:31:17
They'll appoint who they want and he will be either better or worse than Moyes.

All I want is for him to be appointed SOON....NOW

Ajay Gopal
581 Posted 27/05/2013 at 07:46:31
My expectations of the new manager:

Build on the positives that we already have: tenacity, team-spirit, defensive solidity, hard to beat at home.
Add 1 (or 2) proven goal-scorers
Improve our ball retention and passing
Press higher up the pitch
Bring in more younger players
Gradually build a 'squad' - from the present 13-14 regular premier league players, increase that to about 18-20 regular players with a proper thought-out rotation policy.

Realistically, I would be happy with following achievements from the new manager:

1st Year: A 'Top 10' finish, a good cup run and at least 2-3 youth players brought into the squad.
2nd - 3rd Years: Top 6 finishes and European competition, at least 1 Cup Semi-Final/Final. A squad of 18-20 players playing attractive attacking football, the squad should contain at least 4-5 players who have come in from the Academy.
4th-5th Years: 1 Cup victory, Champions League football, an academy regularly producing 1-2 players per year who play for the senior team.
2018-19: The year Everton Football Club wins the league!

All this, of course, depends on the level of support that the new manager gets from the board and the fans. Also, I realise that the competition will not be sitting still, they may have similar or bigger plans/ambitions. So, a HUGE dose of luck would also not be unwelcome!

Paul Ellam
629 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:03:50
Vitor Pereira can give me everything that I expect for the new manager.
He is attack minded, likes to play a pressing game, is happy to use youngsters but also handles big name players (should we buy any!) and is a winner through and through.
If we pick him I believe there are exciting times ahead, if we go for somebody like Martinez - we are standing still at best, going backwards at worst.
Anthony Hawkins
639 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:20:11
The new manager doesn't have to use the same style as Moyes and doesn't even have to use the same players preferred by Moyes but what the new manager has to do for me is equal or better What Moyes has achieved. I don't expect miracles in the first season, just a good solid finish with plenty of positive signs for the future/ next season.
Mike Hughes
645 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:28:51
All I want is for Everton to win.
While I don't want hoof ball every week, I don't subscribe to beautiful football at any cost either.

Mix the styles up to win.

I'd quite happily settle for a "Lump-it-for-Dunc-to-stitch-it-approach" to scoring as I would for that first goal against WHU during the last home game.

We need a manager with a win mentality rather than style or percentage football mentality.

Actually that's one of my main objections against Martinez - style over substance. None of this Brendan Gobshite Rogers "philosophy" crap for me.

Let's get back to Fortress Goodison and other teams shitting themselves when they see our royal blue shirts, white shorts and WHITE socks. And, when we go away from home, our hosts should have a "lock up your daughters" mindset because the Mighty Blues are coming to town.

We're Everton FC - born in 1878 - Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. Let's twat all-comers.

Jim Potter
649 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:34:08
Richard - if the new manager does have to go through the same processes as some of us - then let's hope it includes a lie detector and keep Redknapp away.

Tristan - I agree with the sentiment that all our age groups should play in the same manner - but does that mean if Martinez gets it then then all of them have to give up defending?

Ajay - agree with what you suggest - however whoever it is will require a sh*t load of cash from a new investor if they are truly going to compete.

Jim Potter
650 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:46:39
Mike - only just saw your comments - ".. when we go away from home, our hosts should have a "lock up your daughters" mindset ". Does your personal away kit consist of a royal blue shirt, white shorts, WHITE socks and a balaclava?
James Martin
651 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:52:12
To get fourth. That is all that matters for Everton, if we could sneak in and somehow stay in that elite band then everything would work itself out for us: top players, more transfer funds, more attractive to investors, detrimental effect on our nearest competition. So all I want is a manager who can do this, I don't care what his football looks like. No one at Chelsea apart from Abramovich was complaining when Mourinho was kick and rushing his way to the premier league points total record.
Mike Hughes
653 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:59:28
Jim # 650 - :)
It was an analogy, Jim, and not meant to be taken literally.
Tony J Williams
655 Posted 27/05/2013 at 11:07:38
The lowest expectation, the very lowest would be to do as good as Moyes in the league, can't do any worse in the cups.
Paul David
663 Posted 27/05/2013 at 11:21:36
A bit more football would be nice.
Dean Barton
664 Posted 27/05/2013 at 11:18:16
The style of football matters not.....It doesn't matter how we win, so long as we win. My biggest gripe with Moyes was always a lack of pace in the team. One of our problems over the years away from home was lack of pace on the break.

I would love to see a pacey and high intensity game. Like the one Pochettino is trying to bring in at Saints. Not necessarily attacking football, but high intensity.

Dennis Stevens
690 Posted 27/05/2013 at 12:49:27
All the new manager needs to do is be successful - lucky might help too!
Ross Edwards
695 Posted 27/05/2013 at 12:55:21
Good flair, attacking style, not at extreme of Barca, but a smooth, quick passing style that is pleasing to watch
A win at a Sky 4 ground
A TROPHY (League or FA Cup
Top 6 finish
Get Bielsa in, he can provide these things.
Tristan Kerr
702 Posted 27/05/2013 at 12:56:55
People seem to get hung up on wigans defesive issues. I watched a lot of wigan last year simply because I liked the football they played, however id say at least 90 percent of goals scored agaist was individual mistakes which no manager can really help with. I will agree jim that he should of looked at buying better defenders but I also admire the play it the right way all attack with a squad worth 15 million!! He could of easliy bought big lumps and park the bus attitude ala stoke and kept them up, all I can hope for is if it is martinez hopefully he will have learnt a defensive lesson this year. And dean style does matter!!!! You must not watch a lot of efc this last ten years!
Dean Barton
707 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:08:58
Tristan 702

If we win every game 1 - 0 by nicking a goal and parking the bus I really couldn't care less. The important thing is to win. When Stoke try to change their playing style this year and go down they will long for the way they played with Pulis.

Wigan played a certain way which put them down......How can your argument possibly hold any water?

Brian Clough said that winning every home game 1-0 and drawing away 0 - 0 would win you the league. He also won 2 European cups with a team full of carthorses. Style does not matter so long as you achieve your ultimate goal, which is to win!

Dean Barton
711 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:18:24
Don't get me wrong, I would prefer to see a nice style of football. But if we have to win ugly, then fine. Nobody seemed to care in 1995 when we were championing the Dogs of War mentality.
Duncan McDine
712 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:16:17
I'm with Mike Hughes. I want Everton to win ugly if thats the only way. So long as Blue Bill is in charge, we can surely expect no more than top 10 finishes though
Mike Hughes
717 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:35:27
Duncan#712 - just to clarify my point, I don't want "ugly" to be our default style.I'm sure you don't either. I want us to mix it up and win. But I'd rather win ugly than draw or lose with patronising comments from MOTD pundits. Let's leave that to Brenda and Co.

Ross Edwards
720 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:46:16
Sadly, reading comments like "If we have to win ugly then fine", demonstrates one of the reasons why England will continue to be footballing stuck in the muds. The Germans, the Dutch and the Spanish saw fit to overhaul their system and they are the top of world football at the moment,
The fact that people would "rather win ugly" is a reason why we have won nothing for 19 years.
Attack triumphs over defence, but if fans want to stick with out of date methods of football then fine. The Moyes era is over, now I want to see something different and more exciting.
Eric Holland
721 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:53:00
i'm with Paul Ellam,
change of style needed to progress in this league.
James Martin
722 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:50:07
Ross Chelsea built whole title wins on defense. All of Rafa's success at Liverpool was built on defense. As good as Spain are they won the world cup on the back of a load of 1-0 wins. Trends come in and out of football but you can't just say that attack triumphs over defense otherwise Italy would never have won an international trophy. Even the French side in 1998 was largely defensive and relied ont he brilliance of Zidane.

I'm not advocating going for this approach but if I was givent he choice between a manager who set up a team to consistently grind out wins and came fourth or a manager that treated us to 5-0 wins one week then equally pianful losses the other and was mid table then I'd know who I would choose all day long. I'm not bothered what the media think of our style of football or what other fans think, if it was a winning style they'd all respect. Their 'admiration' for Wigan's football is nothing more than them patronising them.

Ross Edwards
725 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:00:10
If we want to scrape to 8th every year, by all means continue to win "ugly", but if we are to challenge further in the PL, we need a change of style.
The points we lost last season would have put us in a CL spot. If we finished teams like Norwich and Reading off we wouldn't be thinking what could have been.
A more attacking mentality is needed, not too blase like Wigan but just pleasing on the eye.
Mike Hughes
728 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:06:28
Ross #725

I've just read the threads above and nobody is advocating a win ugly as a default style as you seem to suggest. People are advocating a win mentality which incorporates any style of football to effectively get the win.

Adopting a change of style as you advocate may or may not be the answer. It depends on a whole lot of other factors - resources on and off the pitch for starters.

Being "pleasing on the eye" doesn't guarantee anything other than the approval of Alan Hansen, Mark Lawrensen etc al. And I, for one, couldn't care less about their views as long as Everton win.

Ross Edwards
729 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:12:03
Why are you so preoccupied with what MOTD say Mike?
If we win playing ugly park the bus football we'll be stuck in the muds while the rest of the league is adapting.
I know a balence is needed but I think we need a more adventurous, foreign style. It is the only way we can progress.
James Martin
730 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:04:19
Ross its easy to say in principle but if it was so easy to carry out why wouldn't everyone be doing it? You need a balance between the two, Man U are the best at it hence why they win the league. Wigan have gone far too far and don't even score that many so its not really attacking football at all. We've hardly been scraping 8th every year, we were comfortably 6th this season.

Any team can talk about the points they lost - we would have won the league if we hadn't lost any. But you're just ignoring all the points we gained by having a decent defense as though everyone has one and they're taken for granted. Its just as much a part of the game as attacking is. The top managers realise this, how many times have pundits gone on about Chelsea's old defense or Vidic/Ferdinand and how this is the bedrock of title winning sides. A world class defense is an art form too and that is something the Spanish and Italian national sides recognise. It is only bored fans who want to be 'entertained' rather than actually winning football matches that will compromise results for easy on the eye football.

If a manager comes in and wins playing great football then this is the ideal situation. How many of them do this in the premier league though? Liverpool's football is supposedly great so why are they in 7th? A manager who wins has to be a better manager than one who doesn't but plays nice football. Whether football is good or not is only an opinion of whoever watches it. The only true test of 'good' football is whether it wins or not. A amanger who wins appreciates the importance of the arts of defense and attack. A manager like Martinez sacrificed Wigan's premier league status in the pursuit of an ineffective but aesthetically pleasing way of playing football.

Mike Hughes
731 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:15:52
Ross -

You seem to read things when they weren't stated in the first place.

"ugly park the bus football" - nobody suggested it
"preoccupied with MOTD" - you summised this when I stated the exact opposit - thatI couldn't care less about MOTD

???

Duncan McDine
732 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:11:19
Yep, as Mike suspected... of course I don't want us to play ugly, but as James said, I'd take that over playing total football and finishing 10th with no consistency.

Ross, if you think we can play attractive attack minded football and still win more games than we lose, you are kidding yourself mate. You need BIG bucks spent on Top quality players if thats the way you want to play.... and even still there is no guarantee you wont get battered on the break away by teams who can mix and match their tactics depending on the opponent.

We have no money. We can hope and pray for great things from our new manager (whoever he may be), but lets face it... if we are honest with ourselves, do we EXPECT any greatness from a club with no money?

Ross Edwards
733 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:21:34
Oh well, my mind must be going Mike...
In prinicple, all I'm saying is that an attacking style is needed in order to progress in the Premier League.
Duncan McDine
736 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:21:45
One thing I forgot to mention is that our best league placing in recent history was during a season where we played really unattractive footy. It was built on a very solid defense, winning by the odd goal (helped by a lot of clean sheets). I'd gladly take another season of that if it means we get a shot at the CL.
Mike Hughes
738 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:28:33
Ross - I agree we need to turn those draws into wins.
Ben Jones
739 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:23:56
I think Ross is spot on.

Look at our goal difference this season, we're at least 10 goals off in goals scored for all the teams around us. Getting a more offensive coach in might crack the difference in the top 4.

Kevin Tully
740 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:15:03
Hopefully the new guy will be a little more charismatic than our last manager (not in a Brendan Rodgers, middle management sounbites style) but it became painful watching the last fella.

I would like to see tactics being mixed up to suit the opposition, we always played the same formation, it didn't matter if we played Oldham or Man Utd.

We can hopefully get our 'big club mentality' back, something missing from top to bottom. Let's go to Anfield without fear, believe people, believe!!

I want players dropped if they are clearly out of form, something we never witnessed under the last fella. Players should be sold when the squad needs refreshing, the timing has to be right of course.

Top 8 will be seen as matching anything the last fella did (his average finish) so wins at the usual suspects, a Cup, and a decent run in Europe is all a bonus.

Sean Patton
745 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:30:35
Minimum Top 10 finish every year
A trophy win at least once a decade
Win at least one derby a season
Bring through the youth players
Ross Edwards
746 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:31:37
Exactly Ben. Can you imagine if the race for 4th was settled on GD, and we missed out by 10 goals to lets say, the RS or Arsenal?

Goal Difference is important and ours has been low considering our high league positions, and if we are to challenge the top 4, we need to score more goals and finish teams off, the main reason why we had 15 draws this season.

Arsenal in 4th had a GD of +35, we had a GD of +15, which is nowhere near enough.

We need to bridge the gap to the big 4 and a more offensive style of play is the only way to do this.

John Daley
748 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:39:18
"Attack triumphs over defence"


Didn't Kevin Keegan disprove this theory whilst in charge of Newcastle? Going gung-ho, all out attack got him near to the top prizes but his defensive naivety eventually proved the decisive factor in his team falling at the final hurdle.

Haven't Arsenal faltered over recent years due to Wengers inability to put together a solid defensive unit on a par with the one he inherited from George Graham? They knock it around at pace, have always had skilfully creative midfielders, had Van Persie banging them in every week, yet constantly shot themselves in the foot by having a back four that was about as impenetrable as a lubed up Louie Spence and a string of keepers that were more Frank fucking Spencer than 'safe hands'.

Ross Edwards
749 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:38:43
"Minimum Top 10"

Minimum top 10 Sean?? Minimum?

I'd say our minimum is top 8 every year. We are established as being stronger than the RS, we are way better than scraping 10th every year surely.

We are a much better team than WBA and Swansea below us. Surely we must aim higher than "minimum top 10."

Tony Marsh
752 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:42:53
John Daley, Priceless mate. Newcastle have never come anywhere near the Keegan days since he left despite spending trillions and changing manager every 2 years. Ask any Geordie and they loved the attacking style they had under KK.

It's hard for any teams to gate crash the Sky party but at least have a go and entertain the supporters. Suppose the "dig in and defend" Moyes way has corrupted our fan base.

As for Arsenal, they achieve their target 4th place every season without spending any money? I don't understand or want to hear this anti-football garbage.

Sean Patton
753 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:45:15
Ross

Indeed I was expecting the Moyes Boys to take me to task if I put top 8 if we go all out for the cups which we should from now then I would think the final league placing would suffer a bit.

Ultimately I don't care where we finish in the league as we aren't going to win it and we won't be relegated provided we win a cup I would even take 17th minimum!

Peter Bell
755 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:49:20
Dean Barton, so you would call quality players like Woodcock, Robertson, Francis, Gemmill (Archie by the way) Anderson, O'Neill carthorses? That Forest team broke the Liverpool domination of the 70s and once went 42 league games undefeated.
Mike Hughes
757 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:53:56
John Daley #748

"as impenetrable as a lubed up Louie Spence and a string of keepers that were more Frank fucking Spencer than 'safe hands"

Bloody hilarious - and I don't even know who Louie Spence is.

James Martin
772 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:03:43
What does the charisma of a manager have to do with anything? You find loads of 'characters' down int he lower leagues but it doesn't make them good football managers.

Kevin 'I would like to see tactics being mixed up to suit the opposition, we always played the same formation, it didn't matter if we played Oldham or Man Utd. ' Isn't this what people criticised Moyes for when someone let it slip that he tailored his tactics to the opposition he was facing? Which is it? In my eyes a big club has the ocnfidence to go out and play their way regardless of the opposition and I think our consistency of formaiton shows that on a whole we do that. Obviously there's exceptions, even Man U played Rooney on the wing againast Barcelona but most of the itme I feel we play the same way against everyone. Is this a weakness or a strength? I don't know but I think the new manager much like the old one will probably get criticised whichever way he goes.

Its not as simple as just saying a more attacking mindset would have ofund us those ten goals that we were short of in compariosn to the teams around us. look at the players. Suarez, Sturridge, Borini / Torres, Ba/ Giroud, Podolski, Walcott, Gervinho/ Defoe, Dempsey, Adebayor/ Jelavic Anichebe Naismith - any of those gorups of strikers stand out as being wofeully inferior to the others? Liverpool took one of Chelsea's cast offs and he'd still walk into our team. they've got enough to allow Lukaku to be out on loan. Walcott's annoyed because he doesn't get to play in the middle enough whilst Chamberlain is annoyed at sitting on the bench. they'd all walk striaght into our first team without any debate. A bit of attacking football is not going to close the gap between the offensive resources of these teams. It is just delusional to think that if Moyes had had 10s of millions ot get in two or three top class strikers that we wouldn't have scored more goals and been higher up the table. A new manager is not going to bridge this gap no matter how good he is. Unless he can unlock Jelavic and get him scoring 30 goals a season (although that wasn't enough for Liverpool to come any better than 7th) and keep him fit and in form for every single game then until there is money for transfers we are not shooting up the table any time soon. you can be as attacking as you want but as Martinez has shown with Wigan if you've got dross up front you still won't score many.

Mark Frere
777 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:03:13
For me, the result is always the most important aspect. I know football is in the entertainment business and its nice to win pretty, but don't think anyone can make a argument that one way is more effective then another, because they is too many examples of different types football been successful.

Just look at 2 different era's from Arsenal's past, there's the boring George Graham era which brought 2 league titles, domestic and european cup trophies.

Then there's the wenger invincebles, playing mouth watering football, winning league and cup titles, i'm sure the fans enjoyed Wengers Arsenal in the early days more then George Grahams Arsenal, but I bet they'd trade nice football now for a boring trophy laden Arsenal

Kevin Tully
781 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:20:19
James - I don't know if you are old enough to remember the likes of Clough, Shankly etc.. but I am sure you like to watch Mourinho, or even Fergie when they hold a press conference.

Listen to what the like of Lampard has to say about Mourinho, nothing to do with how the team was set up to play, he said Mourinho made him feel 10 ft. tall before he set foot on the pitch, why?

As far as our tactics, I think I am right in saying we played 4-5-1 for about 98% of the time the last manager was here - please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong though.

Dean Barton
786 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:18:35
Peter Bell 755

I know that 'all carthorses' was maybe a tad extreme, but they were never a great footballing side like LFC were at the time. They did what was needed to win. That was the point.

Plus, O'Neill and Gemmill were both on the bench for the 1979 final.

John Daley
788 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:30:48
"I don't understand or want to hear this anti-football garbage."

How is being defensively solid 'anti-football'? Is it not obvious that there needs to be a balance between defence and attack? You can't just prioritise one over the other.

The point about Keegan was he was too enamoured with his attacking principles and neglected to focus any attention on his teams defensive fragility. They threw away points they had in the bag by continuing to attack instead of simply shoring things up and seeing games out. Newcastle could have won the league if Keegan hadn't punched himself out by trying to go all Clubber Lang on every opponent put in front of him.

Winners like Ferguson and Mourinho (& Kenny Powers) know you don't win jack shit unless your defence is 'locked down tight like a little girls tuna'.

As for the 'dig in & defend Moyes way corrupting the fan base' dig? You're definitely barking up the wrong tree here Scrappy Doo.

Alasdair Mackay
792 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:29:04
I want a manager who understands where Everton should be.

For all his plus points Moyes never truly believed that Everton deserved to be at the top table. That is why we never won away at one of the Sky4 during his entire tenure and why we were so often the bridesmaids, but never quite had enough to tip us over the finishing line.

After 1 trophy in a quarter of a century we are STILL the 4th most successful team in English football history. We've spent too long convincing ourselves that we don't deserve to be at the top table - now we need someone in charge that can propel the club back into the main stream!

Gavin Ramejkis
794 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:54:25
Duncan #736 scraping a bucket load of 1-0s and 0-0s isn't going to get us fourth place any more as the teams in the top 6 score more goals than us so goal difference would be the killer.
James Martin
797 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:58:00
Kevin putting aside the many different forms that '4-5-1' took over the years. You are right we do try and play the same way every game. That was my point, people go on about top teams play the way they want to then people worry about how they play. When we try and do that the manager gets criticised for not adapting tactically to other teams. It was a lose lose for Moyes and will be for the new manager.

The reality is though that you can't just put aside the different forms that our formation has taken down the years (the same basic set up that both ECL finalists were using) At first Moyes' teams used to play 4-1-4-1 with Carsley in between two banks of 4 and Cahill and Gravesen ahead of him both arriving late to support Bent. It was only when neville came that we moved to the standard model we have now of two deep lying players and one in support of the striker.

You know as wel as I do though that Baines is often ahead of Pienaar in our attacking formation, pushing him inwards and Fellaini further up to make more of a 2. Just because the Sky teamsheet puts the names out in a certain way doens't mean they stay there in the match. People go on as though if he suddenly put two up front all our woes would be resolved when the reality is that formations are so much more complex than this. You can't say we've played the same formation most of the time under Moyes. The players have been different and with them so has the formation.

Peter Bell
799 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:59:36
Dean @76
Check the stats, that Forest team won a 42 game league season with a +45 goal difference and lost only 3 games. You must have been watching a different Forest to me. I recall them coming to Goodison on the opening day and turning us over 3 - 1 with some of the best attacking football I had ever seen in from an away team. I also recall them going to the mighty Old Trafford and turning them over 4 - 0 in their own back yard. Hardly a team that just did enough to win games.
Burns & Lloyd were the destroyers, yes, but the rest of them could play.
Clough always built his teams on playing football, the way it should be played.
Duncan McDine
800 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:59:48
Fair point Gavin, but our GD that year was also well below teams around us. One point is worth more than 100 goals interms of league placing.

I'm just stating that unless we have significant investment, our most effective football (points wise) will not be the most attacking. Even with the money Spirs and the RS have thrown at their squads, they've come up short this year.... and they both claim to play attractive attacking football.

Duncan McDine
801 Posted 27/05/2013 at 16:10:05
Spirs!
Andrew Clare
808 Posted 27/05/2013 at 16:19:56
Play attacking football with style. Be tactically astute and change the pattern of play at will and when required. Pass the ball quickly and move into space and break quickly. Sign quick technically gifted young players who can play Dutch style 'total football'. This should be instilled into all of the playing staff from an early age.

Finally do not appoint a British manager or a foreign EPL-based manger — they are not good enough.

Tristan Kerr
813 Posted 27/05/2013 at 16:29:03
Okay, if youse are happy with hoofball, keep it tight and try for 1-0 victories, why don't we just get Tony Pulis in charge!! It's been proved round the world that attacking fluid football can be achieved without spending billions. Is it too much to ask that players – international players at that – pass the ball from a to b? Fuck it, while we're changing our manager, badge, etc... why don't we change our name to Wimbledon, ffs?
Kevin Tully
817 Posted 27/05/2013 at 16:31:29
James, agree it was a fluid 4-5-1 at home, and a very rigid, often stranded lone striker 4-5-1 away from home, especially in bigger games.

We did try a genuine 3-5-2 a couple of times this season, and it was a refreshing change from the norm to be honest, but we are talking the last few games in the last season in 11 years!

Hopefully we will see the new man playing a few different formations & styles, trying youth & experience.

I don't think the new man will take us any higher in the League btw — but it would be nice to see us believing we can match any team, especially at the likes of Anfield, we still couldn't beat them there, even when they were down to 10 men. That was down to a lack of belief, and playing for draws.

Phil Walling
820 Posted 27/05/2013 at 16:51:10
It just struck me that Doddy`s well-timed post has provoked a whole raft of sensible,reasonable and very `football intelligent` debate on the most important of current issues.
I just wonder if Bill and his Board are undergoing the same exercise in determining just what they require from their new man.
I suspect I know the answer to that one!
Dan Dorrington
898 Posted 27/05/2013 at 18:09:30
It's a little worrying some of the comments i've seen posted here. The notion of "win at all costs" and park the bus for maximum points gain is all well and good were it in terms of getting us in to the Champions league, but what then? What about when we come up against the clubs that play penetrative and dominant football with a high pressure mindset? It's a stop gap strategy at best. The fact of the matter is that you cannot win in these big games with those tactics, eventually the likes of Bayern, Dortmund, Barca - were we to make the CL with that strategy, where a club of our stature deserves to be - would exploit the weaknesses, and the tiredness that accompanies having very little of the possession. Style over substance is of course, worthless too; but I would draw attention to the England team and the revision of football from grass roots upwards - it's not all about winning at all costs in every game. Were the manager to come in and develop a style of football that would enable us to take control of games whomever we are playing (especially at the Sky 4) I would take that over the three years than a quick fix of European football on a severely limited style of play, that would hinder rather than help us progress in the long term.
Steve Pugh
929 Posted 27/05/2013 at 19:00:12
Dan, Chelsea won the Champions League doing it.
Dan Dorrington
932 Posted 27/05/2013 at 19:36:28
On the back of billionaire playboy investment, an exhaustive catalogue of managers and perhaps more than their fair share of luck along the way. Which admittedly I would take two of three any day of the week, but at what cost stability wise.
Dave Lynch
993 Posted 27/05/2013 at 21:14:37
The official site and information on it is fuckiing deplorable.

It has a section on who " the papers think" will be our new manager.

Well how about what the fucking club think ! How about some information on the candidates and when an announcement will be made !

I'm getting more pissed off and angrier by the hour at the lack of information, were treated like gobshites every last one of us.


Brendan McLaughlin
003 Posted 27/05/2013 at 21:33:54
Do better than "whatshisname"...feck... a huge ask?
Colin Wainwright
007 Posted 27/05/2013 at 21:46:14
Take no shite from the chairman.
Jack Cross
009 Posted 27/05/2013 at 21:42:59
BK. So when are you asking for our input on new coach? Communication as always been shite at the club since he as been here. All I can say is I'm praying that Martinez is just a rumour. Some one said earlier that he beat Arsenal and Redshite . Yes he's right but he didn't beat the drop, did he? Now this supposed loyal coach wants to run for the hills. Stay you shit house and get them out of what you got them in to if your so good.
Harold Matthews
047 Posted 27/05/2013 at 23:20:26
True Jack. He shouldn't even be thinking of leaving. Probably won't.

As for the new manager. Wouldn't want him to spout endless claptrap like that Brenda idiot across the park.

We need someone with ambition, passion and drive who knows the kind of football and the standard of player to keep us in a challenging position. It took Moyes 8 years to see the light and we must not let things drop. Do we have the necessary expertise internally? I very much doubt it even though they will be very much in the Moyes mould. Whoever gets the job I want him to be extremely hard to please and tactically astute. Most of all, I want him to scour the world for a quick , strong, intelligent striker, preferably left-footed, who can stick the ball in the net.

David Cornmell
111 Posted 28/05/2013 at 06:08:45
Someone who can go to the Emirates, the Bridge, OT or the Tin Mine with the intention of turning them over.
Someone who uses more than fifteen players a season.
Someone who knows that this is the biggest best job in football and not a stepping stone to somewhere else.
Someone who can make a change - in tactics or personnel - when Plan A is clearly not working.
Someone who'll put pressure on the chairman and his chums to provide resources when they're needed.
Someone who can make decisions based on knowledge and logic quickly.
Someone who treats the domestic cups as an opportunity not a distraction.

Shall I keep going?

Paul Ferry
129 Posted 28/05/2013 at 07:57:15
Formby Richard?

You moved down market from
Freshfield?


Richard Dodd
131 Posted 28/05/2013 at 08:14:01
NO Paul,still in L37 ,a few yards from the Freshy!
James Marshall
199 Posted 28/05/2013 at 11:31:58
So today is D-Day for the clown over at Wigan to decide if he wants to stay there or come & turn us into back into relegation favourites. I'm like a cat on a hot tin roof hoping for a late afternoon announcement that he's going to do the decent thing and stay in Wigan.

God help us if he doesn't though. Mind you, with what looks like option B, being Doddy Weir, I don't hold out a great deal of hope for either of them.

Sad times.

Steavey Buckley
250 Posted 28/05/2013 at 13:15:43
A potential manager must spell out how he is going to improve Everton football club. There is no good for him to just say that Moyes is a hard act to follow.
Colin Glassar
263 Posted 28/05/2013 at 13:38:59
Martinez has left Wigan. Let's get him signed up and start planning for next season. We need some stability right now.
Kevin Tully
264 Posted 28/05/2013 at 13:40:58
If Martinez does sign - surely he has a head start by the fact he knocked back the shite last season!
Andrew McGreavy
285 Posted 28/05/2013 at 14:04:51
Martinez is on his way, at least we will see the back of one up front at home to rubbish teams!!
Shane Corcoran
287 Posted 28/05/2013 at 14:05:59
One year left on his contract. What would that cost Everton approximately could anyone guess?
Andrew McGreavy
294 Posted 28/05/2013 at 14:13:08
@ Shane 287 Sky Sports are saying Dave Whelan wants £2 million
Ross Edwards
422 Posted 28/05/2013 at 15:24:57
James
Absolutely insulting nonsense. Would you rather have Stubbs or Lennon? At least we're going to get some entertainment.
Gavin Ramejkis
166 Posted 29/05/2013 at 08:51:54
How about when the next one leaves we ask them to not take the piss and carry on drawing a wage for a few weeks after they leave and not come out with some twaddle about not coming back to buy players
Andrew Bone
248 Posted 29/05/2013 at 11:30:36
Here is what I would like.
1) players played in their strongest position
2) out of form players dropped
3) in relation to '2' have them replaced with some of the hungrier players
4) be adventurous and not stick with up front chasing balls
5) make sure the striker is a striker and stays that way (be interesting to see if Jelavic can regain some form
6) identify transfer targets early and get sales done early to bed the players in - this happened last season and the results were clear
7) be prepared to take risks on the younger players - it could have a long term benefit
8) new goalkeeper
9) new striker
10) new left winger

I don't want much.

Amit Vithlani
252 Posted 29/05/2013 at 11:48:57
1) Beat the RS Home and Away
2) Blood some youngsters e.g. Barkley, Duffy and Vellios
3) Create a team that keeps the ball on the deck and dominates in the oppo's half
4) Sell average players for above average prices, re-invest in above average players at below average prices
5) Do better than we did this year.
6) Win a cup every couple of years.


Well, you did ask...

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