Season 2012-13
Opinion
Talking Points
What do we ask of our new manager?
The King is dead, long live the King! Moyes is no more — at least as manager of Everton — and interesting though the inquests about his triumphs and failings may be, we must now turn to the task ahead for his successor.
Now I can’t imagine there’s a job description for the post anymore that the general rules of recruitment will be applied to the way our club will seek out his successor. There won't be a psychometric test, personality profile, and all the other gobbledegook most of us have to suffer in our pursuit of a new job, just as applicants won't have to fill in an application form.
The post will eventually be filled by someone with whom Bill Kenwright ‘feels at home’ and who knows how to behave in front of Lady Seagrove.
What we don’t know of course are the aims and objectives, targets, priorities and, dare I say it, action plans that the person appointed will work to.
Will he control ‘all football matters’ as Moyes so insisted on? Will his brief extend to all levels of players, teams and staff or will, as the continentals prefer, he be seen as merely ‘the first team coach?
Will he be expected to encourage a return to ‘The School of Science’ style of play which dominated those far-off days when Everton were great and had a motto that meant something like ‘Nothing but the Best‘? Or, as so many fear, will it just be enough to keep us in the top half?
Of course, we’ll never know what will be expected of the new man by the hierarchy but what would you be wanted from him if you were invited to be involved in the appointment process?
Answers to BK, please. After all, this club wants to know how its fans feel on major issues, don’t it?
Richard Dodd, Posted 26/05/2013 at 16:17:25
Reader Comments
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558 Posted 27/05/2013 at 05:35:13
563 Posted 27/05/2013 at 05:59:52
568 Posted 27/05/2013 at 07:14:54
"Take the players you have available and play with a more positive mentality than the last manager.
Turn at least 5 of the 15 draws ( 15 being the most draws that any team in the Prem had) into wins and it`s 10 more points than this season.
No need for you to go gung ho playing any of the big teams,but under no circumstance do you take a forward thinking player off for a defensive minded player and revert to defending the 18 yard box with 20 minutes to go.Especially at home.Especially against the likes of Norwich etc."
574 Posted 27/05/2013 at 07:31:17
All I want is for him to be appointed SOON....NOW
581 Posted 27/05/2013 at 07:46:31
Build on the positives that we already have: tenacity, team-spirit, defensive solidity, hard to beat at home.
Add 1 (or 2) proven goal-scorers
Improve our ball retention and passing
Press higher up the pitch
Bring in more younger players
Gradually build a 'squad' - from the present 13-14 regular premier league players, increase that to about 18-20 regular players with a proper thought-out rotation policy.
Realistically, I would be happy with following achievements from the new manager:
1st Year: A 'Top 10' finish, a good cup run and at least 2-3 youth players brought into the squad.
2nd - 3rd Years: Top 6 finishes and European competition, at least 1 Cup Semi-Final/Final. A squad of 18-20 players playing attractive attacking football, the squad should contain at least 4-5 players who have come in from the Academy.
4th-5th Years: 1 Cup victory, Champions League football, an academy regularly producing 1-2 players per year who play for the senior team.
2018-19: The year Everton Football Club wins the league!
All this, of course, depends on the level of support that the new manager gets from the board and the fans. Also, I realise that the competition will not be sitting still, they may have similar or bigger plans/ambitions. So, a HUGE dose of luck would also not be unwelcome!
629 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:03:50
He is attack minded, likes to play a pressing game, is happy to use youngsters but also handles big name players (should we buy any!) and is a winner through and through.
If we pick him I believe there are exciting times ahead, if we go for somebody like Martinez - we are standing still at best, going backwards at worst.
639 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:20:11
645 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:28:51
While I don't want hoof ball every week, I don't subscribe to beautiful football at any cost either.
Mix the styles up to win.
I'd quite happily settle for a "Lump-it-for-Dunc-to-stitch-it-approach" to scoring as I would for that first goal against WHU during the last home game.
We need a manager with a win mentality rather than style or percentage football mentality.
Actually that's one of my main objections against Martinez - style over substance. None of this Brendan Gobshite Rogers "philosophy" crap for me.
Let's get back to Fortress Goodison and other teams shitting themselves when they see our royal blue shirts, white shorts and WHITE socks. And, when we go away from home, our hosts should have a "lock up your daughters" mindset because the Mighty Blues are coming to town.
We're Everton FC - born in 1878 - Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. Let's twat all-comers.
649 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:34:08
Tristan - I agree with the sentiment that all our age groups should play in the same manner - but does that mean if Martinez gets it then then all of them have to give up defending?
Ajay - agree with what you suggest - however whoever it is will require a sh*t load of cash from a new investor if they are truly going to compete.
650 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:46:39
651 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:52:12
653 Posted 27/05/2013 at 10:59:28
It was an analogy, Jim, and not meant to be taken literally.
655 Posted 27/05/2013 at 11:07:38
663 Posted 27/05/2013 at 11:21:36
664 Posted 27/05/2013 at 11:18:16
I would love to see a pacey and high intensity game. Like the one Pochettino is trying to bring in at Saints. Not necessarily attacking football, but high intensity.
690 Posted 27/05/2013 at 12:49:27
695 Posted 27/05/2013 at 12:55:21
A win at a Sky 4 ground
A TROPHY (League or FA Cup
Top 6 finish
Get Bielsa in, he can provide these things.
702 Posted 27/05/2013 at 12:56:55
707 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:08:58
If we win every game 1 - 0 by nicking a goal and parking the bus I really couldn't care less. The important thing is to win. When Stoke try to change their playing style this year and go down they will long for the way they played with Pulis.
Wigan played a certain way which put them down......How can your argument possibly hold any water?
Brian Clough said that winning every home game 1-0 and drawing away 0 - 0 would win you the league. He also won 2 European cups with a team full of carthorses. Style does not matter so long as you achieve your ultimate goal, which is to win!
711 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:18:24
712 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:16:17
717 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:35:27
720 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:46:16
The fact that people would "rather win ugly" is a reason why we have won nothing for 19 years.
Attack triumphs over defence, but if fans want to stick with out of date methods of football then fine. The Moyes era is over, now I want to see something different and more exciting.
721 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:53:00
change of style needed to progress in this league.
722 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:50:07
I'm not advocating going for this approach but if I was givent he choice between a manager who set up a team to consistently grind out wins and came fourth or a manager that treated us to 5-0 wins one week then equally pianful losses the other and was mid table then I'd know who I would choose all day long. I'm not bothered what the media think of our style of football or what other fans think, if it was a winning style they'd all respect. Their 'admiration' for Wigan's football is nothing more than them patronising them.
725 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:00:10
The points we lost last season would have put us in a CL spot. If we finished teams like Norwich and Reading off we wouldn't be thinking what could have been.
A more attacking mentality is needed, not too blase like Wigan but just pleasing on the eye.
728 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:06:28
I've just read the threads above and nobody is advocating a win ugly as a default style as you seem to suggest. People are advocating a win mentality which incorporates any style of football to effectively get the win.
Adopting a change of style as you advocate may or may not be the answer. It depends on a whole lot of other factors - resources on and off the pitch for starters.
Being "pleasing on the eye" doesn't guarantee anything other than the approval of Alan Hansen, Mark Lawrensen etc al. And I, for one, couldn't care less about their views as long as Everton win.
729 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:12:03
If we win playing ugly park the bus football we'll be stuck in the muds while the rest of the league is adapting.
I know a balence is needed but I think we need a more adventurous, foreign style. It is the only way we can progress.
730 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:04:19
Any team can talk about the points they lost - we would have won the league if we hadn't lost any. But you're just ignoring all the points we gained by having a decent defense as though everyone has one and they're taken for granted. Its just as much a part of the game as attacking is. The top managers realise this, how many times have pundits gone on about Chelsea's old defense or Vidic/Ferdinand and how this is the bedrock of title winning sides. A world class defense is an art form too and that is something the Spanish and Italian national sides recognise. It is only bored fans who want to be 'entertained' rather than actually winning football matches that will compromise results for easy on the eye football.
If a manager comes in and wins playing great football then this is the ideal situation. How many of them do this in the premier league though? Liverpool's football is supposedly great so why are they in 7th? A manager who wins has to be a better manager than one who doesn't but plays nice football. Whether football is good or not is only an opinion of whoever watches it. The only true test of 'good' football is whether it wins or not. A amanger who wins appreciates the importance of the arts of defense and attack. A manager like Martinez sacrificed Wigan's premier league status in the pursuit of an ineffective but aesthetically pleasing way of playing football.
731 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:15:52
You seem to read things when they weren't stated in the first place.
"ugly park the bus football" - nobody suggested it
"preoccupied with MOTD" - you summised this when I stated the exact opposit - thatI couldn't care less about MOTD
???
732 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:11:19
Ross, if you think we can play attractive attack minded football and still win more games than we lose, you are kidding yourself mate. You need BIG bucks spent on Top quality players if thats the way you want to play.... and even still there is no guarantee you wont get battered on the break away by teams who can mix and match their tactics depending on the opponent.
We have no money. We can hope and pray for great things from our new manager (whoever he may be), but lets face it... if we are honest with ourselves, do we EXPECT any greatness from a club with no money?
733 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:21:34
In prinicple, all I'm saying is that an attacking style is needed in order to progress in the Premier League.
736 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:21:45
738 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:28:33
739 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:23:56
Look at our goal difference this season, we're at least 10 goals off in goals scored for all the teams around us. Getting a more offensive coach in might crack the difference in the top 4.
740 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:15:03
I would like to see tactics being mixed up to suit the opposition, we always played the same formation, it didn't matter if we played Oldham or Man Utd.
We can hopefully get our 'big club mentality' back, something missing from top to bottom. Let's go to Anfield without fear, believe people, believe!!
I want players dropped if they are clearly out of form, something we never witnessed under the last fella. Players should be sold when the squad needs refreshing, the timing has to be right of course.
Top 8 will be seen as matching anything the last fella did (his average finish) so wins at the usual suspects, a Cup, and a decent run in Europe is all a bonus.
745 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:30:35
A trophy win at least once a decade
Win at least one derby a season
Bring through the youth players
746 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:31:37
Goal Difference is important and ours has been low considering our high league positions, and if we are to challenge the top 4, we need to score more goals and finish teams off, the main reason why we had 15 draws this season.
Arsenal in 4th had a GD of +35, we had a GD of +15, which is nowhere near enough.
We need to bridge the gap to the big 4 and a more offensive style of play is the only way to do this.
748 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:39:18
Didn't Kevin Keegan disprove this theory whilst in charge of Newcastle? Going gung-ho, all out attack got him near to the top prizes but his defensive naivety eventually proved the decisive factor in his team falling at the final hurdle.
Haven't Arsenal faltered over recent years due to Wengers inability to put together a solid defensive unit on a par with the one he inherited from George Graham? They knock it around at pace, have always had skilfully creative midfielders, had Van Persie banging them in every week, yet constantly shot themselves in the foot by having a back four that was about as impenetrable as a lubed up Louie Spence and a string of keepers that were more Frank fucking Spencer than 'safe hands'.
749 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:38:43
Minimum top 10 Sean?? Minimum?
I'd say our minimum is top 8 every year. We are established as being stronger than the RS, we are way better than scraping 10th every year surely.
We are a much better team than WBA and Swansea below us. Surely we must aim higher than "minimum top 10."
752 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:42:53
It's hard for any teams to gate crash the Sky party but at least have a go and entertain the supporters. Suppose the "dig in and defend" Moyes way has corrupted our fan base.
As for Arsenal, they achieve their target 4th place every season without spending any money? I don't understand or want to hear this anti-football garbage.
753 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:45:15
Indeed I was expecting the Moyes Boys to take me to task if I put top 8 if we go all out for the cups which we should from now then I would think the final league placing would suffer a bit.
Ultimately I don't care where we finish in the league as we aren't going to win it and we won't be relegated provided we win a cup I would even take 17th minimum!
755 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:49:20
757 Posted 27/05/2013 at 14:53:56
"as impenetrable as a lubed up Louie Spence and a string of keepers that were more Frank fucking Spencer than 'safe hands"
Bloody hilarious - and I don't even know who Louie Spence is.
772 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:03:43
Kevin 'I would like to see tactics being mixed up to suit the opposition, we always played the same formation, it didn't matter if we played Oldham or Man Utd. ' Isn't this what people criticised Moyes for when someone let it slip that he tailored his tactics to the opposition he was facing? Which is it? In my eyes a big club has the ocnfidence to go out and play their way regardless of the opposition and I think our consistency of formaiton shows that on a whole we do that. Obviously there's exceptions, even Man U played Rooney on the wing againast Barcelona but most of the itme I feel we play the same way against everyone. Is this a weakness or a strength? I don't know but I think the new manager much like the old one will probably get criticised whichever way he goes.
Its not as simple as just saying a more attacking mindset would have ofund us those ten goals that we were short of in compariosn to the teams around us. look at the players. Suarez, Sturridge, Borini / Torres, Ba/ Giroud, Podolski, Walcott, Gervinho/ Defoe, Dempsey, Adebayor/ Jelavic Anichebe Naismith - any of those gorups of strikers stand out as being wofeully inferior to the others? Liverpool took one of Chelsea's cast offs and he'd still walk into our team. they've got enough to allow Lukaku to be out on loan. Walcott's annoyed because he doesn't get to play in the middle enough whilst Chamberlain is annoyed at sitting on the bench. they'd all walk striaght into our first team without any debate. A bit of attacking football is not going to close the gap between the offensive resources of these teams. It is just delusional to think that if Moyes had had 10s of millions ot get in two or three top class strikers that we wouldn't have scored more goals and been higher up the table. A new manager is not going to bridge this gap no matter how good he is. Unless he can unlock Jelavic and get him scoring 30 goals a season (although that wasn't enough for Liverpool to come any better than 7th) and keep him fit and in form for every single game then until there is money for transfers we are not shooting up the table any time soon. you can be as attacking as you want but as Martinez has shown with Wigan if you've got dross up front you still won't score many.
777 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:03:13
Just look at 2 different era's from Arsenal's past, there's the boring George Graham era which brought 2 league titles, domestic and european cup trophies.
Then there's the wenger invincebles, playing mouth watering football, winning league and cup titles, i'm sure the fans enjoyed Wengers Arsenal in the early days more then George Grahams Arsenal, but I bet they'd trade nice football now for a boring trophy laden Arsenal
781 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:20:19
Listen to what the like of Lampard has to say about Mourinho, nothing to do with how the team was set up to play, he said Mourinho made him feel 10 ft. tall before he set foot on the pitch, why?
As far as our tactics, I think I am right in saying we played 4-5-1 for about 98% of the time the last manager was here - please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong though.
786 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:18:35
I know that 'all carthorses' was maybe a tad extreme, but they were never a great footballing side like LFC were at the time. They did what was needed to win. That was the point.
Plus, O'Neill and Gemmill were both on the bench for the 1979 final.
788 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:30:48
How is being defensively solid 'anti-football'? Is it not obvious that there needs to be a balance between defence and attack? You can't just prioritise one over the other.
The point about Keegan was he was too enamoured with his attacking principles and neglected to focus any attention on his teams defensive fragility. They threw away points they had in the bag by continuing to attack instead of simply shoring things up and seeing games out. Newcastle could have won the league if Keegan hadn't punched himself out by trying to go all Clubber Lang on every opponent put in front of him.
Winners like Ferguson and Mourinho (& Kenny Powers) know you don't win jack shit unless your defence is 'locked down tight like a little girls tuna'.
As for the 'dig in & defend Moyes way corrupting the fan base' dig? You're definitely barking up the wrong tree here Scrappy Doo.
792 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:29:04
For all his plus points Moyes never truly believed that Everton deserved to be at the top table. That is why we never won away at one of the Sky4 during his entire tenure and why we were so often the bridesmaids, but never quite had enough to tip us over the finishing line.
After 1 trophy in a quarter of a century we are STILL the 4th most successful team in English football history. We've spent too long convincing ourselves that we don't deserve to be at the top table - now we need someone in charge that can propel the club back into the main stream!
794 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:54:25
797 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:58:00
The reality is though that you can't just put aside the different forms that our formation has taken down the years (the same basic set up that both ECL finalists were using) At first Moyes' teams used to play 4-1-4-1 with Carsley in between two banks of 4 and Cahill and Gravesen ahead of him both arriving late to support Bent. It was only when neville came that we moved to the standard model we have now of two deep lying players and one in support of the striker.
You know as wel as I do though that Baines is often ahead of Pienaar in our attacking formation, pushing him inwards and Fellaini further up to make more of a 2. Just because the Sky teamsheet puts the names out in a certain way doens't mean they stay there in the match. People go on as though if he suddenly put two up front all our woes would be resolved when the reality is that formations are so much more complex than this. You can't say we've played the same formation most of the time under Moyes. The players have been different and with them so has the formation.
799 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:59:36
Check the stats, that Forest team won a 42 game league season with a +45 goal difference and lost only 3 games. You must have been watching a different Forest to me. I recall them coming to Goodison on the opening day and turning us over 3 - 1 with some of the best attacking football I had ever seen in from an away team. I also recall them going to the mighty Old Trafford and turning them over 4 - 0 in their own back yard. Hardly a team that just did enough to win games.
Burns & Lloyd were the destroyers, yes, but the rest of them could play.
Clough always built his teams on playing football, the way it should be played.
800 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:59:48
I'm just stating that unless we have significant investment, our most effective football (points wise) will not be the most attacking. Even with the money Spirs and the RS have thrown at their squads, they've come up short this year.... and they both claim to play attractive attacking football.
801 Posted 27/05/2013 at 16:10:05
808 Posted 27/05/2013 at 16:19:56
Finally do not appoint a British manager or a foreign EPL-based manger — they are not good enough.
813 Posted 27/05/2013 at 16:29:03
817 Posted 27/05/2013 at 16:31:29
We did try a genuine 3-5-2 a couple of times this season, and it was a refreshing change from the norm to be honest, but we are talking the last few games in the last season in 11 years!
Hopefully we will see the new man playing a few different formations & styles, trying youth & experience.
I don't think the new man will take us any higher in the League btw — but it would be nice to see us believing we can match any team, especially at the likes of Anfield, we still couldn't beat them there, even when they were down to 10 men. That was down to a lack of belief, and playing for draws.
820 Posted 27/05/2013 at 16:51:10
I just wonder if Bill and his Board are undergoing the same exercise in determining just what they require from their new man.
I suspect I know the answer to that one!
898 Posted 27/05/2013 at 18:09:30
929 Posted 27/05/2013 at 19:00:12
932 Posted 27/05/2013 at 19:36:28
993 Posted 27/05/2013 at 21:14:37
It has a section on who " the papers think" will be our new manager.
Well how about what the fucking club think ! How about some information on the candidates and when an announcement will be made !
I'm getting more pissed off and angrier by the hour at the lack of information, were treated like gobshites every last one of us.
003 Posted 27/05/2013 at 21:33:54
007 Posted 27/05/2013 at 21:46:14
009 Posted 27/05/2013 at 21:42:59
047 Posted 27/05/2013 at 23:20:26
As for the new manager. Wouldn't want him to spout endless claptrap like that Brenda idiot across the park.
We need someone with ambition, passion and drive who knows the kind of football and the standard of player to keep us in a challenging position. It took Moyes 8 years to see the light and we must not let things drop. Do we have the necessary expertise internally? I very much doubt it even though they will be very much in the Moyes mould. Whoever gets the job I want him to be extremely hard to please and tactically astute. Most of all, I want him to scour the world for a quick , strong, intelligent striker, preferably left-footed, who can stick the ball in the net.
111 Posted 28/05/2013 at 06:08:45
Someone who uses more than fifteen players a season.
Someone who knows that this is the biggest best job in football and not a stepping stone to somewhere else.
Someone who can make a change - in tactics or personnel - when Plan A is clearly not working.
Someone who'll put pressure on the chairman and his chums to provide resources when they're needed.
Someone who can make decisions based on knowledge and logic quickly.
Someone who treats the domestic cups as an opportunity not a distraction.
Shall I keep going?
129 Posted 28/05/2013 at 07:57:15
You moved down market from
Freshfield?
131 Posted 28/05/2013 at 08:14:01
199 Posted 28/05/2013 at 11:31:58
God help us if he doesn't though. Mind you, with what looks like option B, being Doddy Weir, I don't hold out a great deal of hope for either of them.
Sad times.
250 Posted 28/05/2013 at 13:15:43
263 Posted 28/05/2013 at 13:38:59
264 Posted 28/05/2013 at 13:40:58
285 Posted 28/05/2013 at 14:04:51
287 Posted 28/05/2013 at 14:05:59
294 Posted 28/05/2013 at 14:13:08
422 Posted 28/05/2013 at 15:24:57
Absolutely insulting nonsense. Would you rather have Stubbs or Lennon? At least we're going to get some entertainment.
166 Posted 29/05/2013 at 08:51:54
248 Posted 29/05/2013 at 11:30:36
1) players played in their strongest position
2) out of form players dropped
3) in relation to '2' have them replaced with some of the hungrier players
4) be adventurous and not stick with up front chasing balls
5) make sure the striker is a striker and stays that way (be interesting to see if Jelavic can regain some form
6) identify transfer targets early and get sales done early to bed the players in - this happened last season and the results were clear
7) be prepared to take risks on the younger players - it could have a long term benefit
8) new goalkeeper
9) new striker
10) new left winger
I don't want much.
252 Posted 29/05/2013 at 11:48:57
2) Blood some youngsters e.g. Barkley, Duffy and Vellios
3) Create a team that keeps the ball on the deck and dominates in the oppo's half
4) Sell average players for above average prices, re-invest in above average players at below average prices
5) Do better than we did this year.
6) Win a cup every couple of years.
Well, you did ask...
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557 Posted 27/05/2013 at 05:29:56