Everton’s financial past is casting a shadow over the future of David Moyes

Could it be our next manager sees more money or gets more out of what we already do spend?

They control the money. They control the merchandising, the pies, sponsorship contracts, you name it they control it.

They also control the manager and who actually is the manager.
They control how much the manager can spend.
We can argue all night about who should or should not be the manager, that decision is solely in the Boards remit.
Whilst this shower are in place nothing will change.
Names and faces may change but the slow decline of our Club will continue.
Moyes' face shows it now.
It's taken him 10 years to finally click what a lot of us have known since before he arrived - this Board are shite !!

I'm actually not being provocative Michael, I'm just asking for clarification on what you wrote in #622.

1) He keeps the fans off BK's back.

2) He keeps the fans off BK's back.

That said, Moyes still has one of the larger budgets in the Premier League to work with. Not the board's fault that Moyes is unwilling to sell to buy.

The fact that things have changed with Moyes seems to have changed the media's perception of how they should write about the club.

Compare and contrast that with our plodding forward at snails pace with very often nothing to show apart from losing the ball.

Moyes is a dinasour along with all the rest of the British managers, Dowie, Mcleish,Allardyce and the rest.

I see Steve McClaren got the dreaded vote of confidence this weekend, I bet he's on Bully Bill's radar.

Look at the money they got for those 3 players, I think what Dick is saying that certain players wouldn't be allowed to develop in the same way.

And are you insane, Wenger has made a fortune on a number of players.

Spurs have been backed a lot more by Levy than we have by Bill, they have been playing well long before this new manager turned up with Harry Redknapp, it was he who moved him from left back to left mid, open your eyes and stop talking nonsense.

If David Moyes needed PR men you and Nick would be hard to beat.

As regards Wenger, I am making the point that even Wenger has found it difficult to keep hold of his players with all the extra wages he can offer and the CL football so it no disgrace to Moyes or any manger outside the top 4 if they struggle to keep hold of their better players, but I think Moyes have done quite well in this respect, I think we did well to keep hold of the likes of Arteta and Cahill for so long and even keeping Jaggs and Baines for so long.

I thought what Dick was getting at was that flair players would be run out of the club, reading it back I'm not sure what he meant now. I do believe Bale would be a completely different player under Moyes though.

There are players who failed at other clubs like Pienaar in Germany and at Spurs who have done much better under Moyes the same as Arteta. Then players like Jaggs Lescott and Cahill he come from the lower leagues and have become house hold names around the world under Moyes, yes there are exceptions to the rule but generally Moyes has got the best out of his players and took them on to another level.

So this free role is the answer to all our problems ay? Why didn’t I think of this before, and there was me thinking tactics and formations were important, why don’t we give all our players free roles, just let them play anywhere and we would be top of the league.

I agree with you to a point, I'm not saying a top flair player wouldn't become a top player if Moyes got hold of them at a young age. I'm saying they wouldn't be the same player. They might end up better all round players but would lose a bit of what made them special in the first place. He puts too much emphasis on defending instead of letting what attackers do best, attack.

Anyway, that's enough for me, I'm off to bed.

Pile on, Moyes bashers. But hurry. HURRY! He's gone 3 months or so. And the next manager will be in for you to vent your spleen on. Have fun.

Because the next manager will be, like Moyes, an employee of our Green/Kenwright/whomever ownership. And as long as this ownership remains the same, we supporters are fucked just as with Moyes the manager. At best, mid-table with the occasional Top 4 bid. Except, Moyes's management got us to "Best of the Rest". Not Green and them.

Here's a question to you so disdainful of Moyes. Moyes gone, ownership the same (which is where we'll be in May), who is the manager to take the same team and challenge for the top?

Not challenging you or calling you wrong. Just curious. Who is this manager to lift us to the heights under current ownership? Fergy, Wenger, Mouhino? Some other? Who?

Could you please give some examples of Wenger's best players walking out for free or for a fraction of their value - value being a very debatable term by the way - ? Almost every one of his best players that have left have left for clubs that have gone onto, or are about to win a championship. So it's not as if his best players are simply abandoning the club; they are stepping up to their potential.

You use Fellaini and Baines as evidence to try and prove Dick wrong, but here it is: Fellaini is being swung aroun two to three different positions at the moment - our "marquee player, not got a position - and Baines has had one good game in the last three months, and hasn't hit a decent free or corner is fuck knows how long.

You say "maybe we should have a manager like Wenger. Well, thanks mostly to him, Arsenal have brand new stadium AND have over 100m in the bank and are running at a profit. This is BECAUSE Wenger knows when the right time to sell is.

I'm not absolving the board of anything. Everytime I see BK's mug on tele I have to be physically ill, but Moyes knows what he's dealing with, and for the last five years has categorically denied the problems he faces. Holding onto Lescott for 10 weeks too long cost us 8m of his transfer and also forced us to waste 10m on Bily. Hanging onto Saha for six month too long costing us 7m. The contract cough-up for Gosling that cost us a concrete 4m in compensation regardless of contracts and transfer fees. I know Moyes says he doesn't deal with contracts, but he had to have more to do with Gosling's departure than some would believe.

The other thing is, like it or not, we are a selling club. Moyes knows that. So what does he do? Not play youth. Fantastic. We received how much for Rodwell? 12-15m from a club that has about a million quid for every blade of grass on their pitch. At the time it seemed good money because Rodwell had become quite poor. 24 months earlier he was carving the prem apart and touted as a 30m prospect.

Keep defending Moyes at all costs, but the more you're saying, the less you're making sense.

Moyes out tomorrow night.

My sentiments exactly. And, as I've also said before, as Moyes' faults are apparently so obvious to the fans, they'll also be obvious to the new guy. So he won't need any time to settle in, will he! Expectations will be that he surpasses Moyes from Day Uno.

“Could you please give some examples of Wenger's best players walking out for free or for a fraction of their value”

RVP, Alex Song, Gael Clichy, Cesc Fabrigas, Nasri, Traore, Hleb, Flamiani, Diarra

“Almost every one of his best players that have left have left for clubs that have gone onto, or are about to win a championship.”

So did the players who left us that we didn’t want to sell.
Rooney left and won the championship, Lescott left and won the Championship, Rodwell left as he also has a good chance of winning the Championship, Arteta had a better chance of winning something with Arsenal.

“Our" marquee player, not got a position - and Baines has had one good game in the last three months, and hasn't hit a decent free or corner in fuck knows how long.” — I disagree with that statement, Fellaini is a quality player who can play in a number of positions, box to box or off the striker or in the holding role, there is nothing wrong with playing him in different positions to suite your team or tactics. Baines has had about 3 bad games all season, he must be the most consistent player in the Premier League.

I don’t deny what a good manager Wenger is, but ask the Arsenal fans who they want as their next manager if you don’t agree with me.

I don’t agree with you assessment of Rodwell either, I have never rated him, he is a very average player who had half-a-dozen decent games a season. He is a poor version of Carrick, slightly better than Jemaine Jenas in that he looked promising early on for Newcastle and got a few England caps but nothing special.

We got a better deal selling Rodwell and bringing in Gibson, Jelavic and Mirallas, imo it was the right decision and I have seen nothing to suggest it still isn't the right decision. When was Rodwell carving up the Prem? He had a decent 10 minutes against Man Utd and a good cameo run out against 10-man Liverpool in the Cup and that was about it.

Keep talking, Roman, I've heard it all before, my friend. Moyes will not be out tomorrow night; he will be out at the end of the season — whatever the outcome tomorrow.

I think it's laughable that you think our supposed best player should be playing multiple positions the way that Fellaini does. What you're saying there is that our most valuable and high-earning player should be moved around to fit in with shit-houses and has-beens like Osman, Pienaar and Phil Neville.

Where does Spurs money go to?

How is it laughable that our best player is played in multiple positions? Rooney and Ronaldo used to play in two or 3 positions at Man Utd and they won everything. I’m not necessarily saying its to shoe horn in Fellaini for the benefit of Neville and Osman, it could be for tactical reasons, for example playing Fellaini further forward if he is up against weaker centre backs were he can cause more problems.

Eric I’m not arguing about were our money goes, its not Moyes decision were the money goes but from what I can see, when we have sold a player like Lescott or Rodwell we have used that money to rebuild.

John, Maybe the Spurs youngster is better than ours.

In a previous post, on another thread, I think it was you that stated that you would hate to be with some on here in a crisis, or something to that effect. Another classic that one Ian as it appears that your approach is to bury your head in the sand, defend the indefensible with the emphasis on defend, and it might just go away. This approach reminds me of scene from Carry on up the Kyber when the fort was under attack and the British officers continued dining, are you Sid James?

Connor Wickham was quoted when at Ipswich at Sunderland he's gone backwards big style.

McEachran can't get a game for Chelsea as their policy in the last few years has been to buy and not introduce home grown talent. With their squad, he will have to move on. Can't compare the Chelsea "squad" with our "team";, with our threadbare lot, we should be introducing guys and give them a chance.

How much did we get for Arteta? and where did the money go?

Where are the missing millions from the Lescott sale?

Where did the money from the sale of Bellefield go?

In your post #712 you are inferring that as Spurs got good money for their players and so did we that we are doing the same as them but we're not if our money has to go to the banks while their money funds better new players, new stadium etc.

What fucking imbecile agreed to that!?

Though that startling piece of bad decision making was poor, the loan situation had to happen. The bank/ loan shark could dictate terms and BK had to suck it up.

But of course, every penny that can go to Moyes does go to Moyes which makes things alright...

Eric, good points on the money in for players. With our debt we can't ecpect to use all the money brought in by players on new ones, but not a penny of the Arteta money has come back to the field.

At the time, I thought the Arteta sale was okay business. He needed a change and we needed money to pay the bills. In hindsight, his absence in the side is actually one of the biggest things hurting at the moment.

As I said in a post last week, I think Cahill was the glue that held the shed together, and Arteta, his best mate, leaving really set in motion this current situation. Not to mention he was the central defender we needed that did most things well. I know some Arsenal fans haven't been pleased with him, but he is a good player, and we miss him terribly.

It's this kind of short sighted financial incompetence that has brought our great club to its knees and for that I lay the blame at Kenwright's door. Never has a man got away with so much for so long while keeping his whistle clean in the press. I despise the man.

In fact everything I thought would happen and predicted has happened, so I trust my own judgement and the judgement of Moyes. Time and time again I have heard people calling for the head of Moyes and to bring in Owen Coyle or Paul ince or Ian Holloway or Di Matteo or some other manager who would be relegated or sacked within 18 months while Moyes plods along still competing at the top end of the table on a shoe string budget.

Of course I can see faults in Moyes who hasn’t got faults of course he makes mistakes but he makes less mistakes than the majority of the other managers. I havnt buried my head in the sand, I have considered all options and all likely outcomes I have looked at the big picture while others on here hit the panic button at the first sign of danger.

Yes there are better manager out there, but lets be honest the majority we could not afford and the rest wouldn’t want to come here. We would end up with some one like Lambert Probably Martinez who is decent but will have us fighting relegation every season like he does at Wigan or Lambert at Villa. People seem to think Martinez is the answer but Wigan were doing better when Bruce was there he brought in all their best players bar one or 2 and that was only because of the money they made off selling the Bruce signings.

The mob find less and less to critisize the manager with and become louder and louder with the infinitesimal scraps of what they do find, creating their own bizarre reality.

You say Connor Wickham has "gone backewards big style" under a very good manager in Martin O’Niell? Well maybe Moyes isn’t so bad with youth players afterall.

We got £12 million for Rodwell with potentially a few more million in years to come. So Mirallas was £6 million Jelavic was £5.5 million and Gibson was about £1 million, so there’s the Rodwell money gone.

We got £9 million for Arteta but I heard his previous club got some sell-on percentage from the deal. We bought Oveido for about £5 million and Stones and Kennedy and Green for about £4 or 5 million combined with add-ons. It just about adds up to me Eric and I am not the best mathematician.

Yes it was a shithouse move, but when you've got nothing, you've got even less to negotiate with.

What I really don't understand with the Apologists is they say we couldn't afford a better manager, but ours is one of the highest paid in the land. Also, the accusations of knee-jerk reaction and "hitting the panic button" as Ian so puts it are just off the mark. Most of us in the MOB have been saying the same things for 2-3 years now, and now a lot of other people are jumping ship and saying the same things.

Remember when we sold Lescott and the Club said that all the money had gone to Moyes, but Moyes said "no it hasn't"? There was a shortfall between the fee and what was actually spent.

You obviously don't remember Moyes also saying "Everyone knows the Areta money went to the banks" And how many years was it after Arteta was sold that we bought Stones , Kennedy and Green (who's he?). Are you telling me the board kept 1 mill (not 5 mill) in their back pocket for 2 years since Arteta's sale waiting for these guys to be available?

We bought Jelavic and Gibson before we sold Rodwell. Are you saying that the board planned to sell Rodwell 8 months later and so spent the money in advance?

BVI remember?