Moyes justifies his contract delay

You only have to see this report in the papers today — "Tony Pulis, who has spent £99 million and recouped £13.3m since leading Stoke to promotion in 2008, has brushed off criticism. Moyes, who has spent £61.5m and brought in £71.5m over the same length of time, maintained he would not turn his back on football if he leaves Everton." That's what he is up against.

He needs at least £20 million and that should be available without selling anyone.

If a player like Felli is sold for £20 million then the budget for incoming transfers should be at least £30 million counting the money not spent during January.

If as people say Moyes is the shield between BK and the fans then he'll do everything he can to get him the money.

At Everton the budget has to include player retention as much as recruitment, which is why we've seen the wage bill increasing significantly, hence our recruitment has been on the whole funded by selling players.

And under this board that won't / can't change. They don't have the personal funds, although they would if they got their asking price - but then they'll be gone!

What he's more likely to do is take on more shady loans at silly interest rates similar to the Vibrac one, and saddle the club with additional debt that will hamper its ability to compete in the transfer market in the long-run because so much of our income goes to pay off loans.

I think that the idea of Kenwright finding investment is laughable; investment is out there, but he doesn't want it because no-one is going to invest their money without wanting to take control of Bills trainset and bill doesn't want that.

Personally I think we're playing with fire with Moyes demanding additional funds. He has to get the wage bill down by getting rid of deadwood like Naismith, Neville, Heitinga etc, sell off players like fellaini who are on massive wages and would attract a top transfer fee, then he will be able to reinvest that money in 4 or 5 quality players in the £5M price bracket, just like mirallas, jelavic etc, and bring through our younger academy players too.

Personally I'd keep baines since hes still young, and seems stable and attached to the club.

Zola to Chelsea - Benitez to Sunderland - O'Neill to Leicester - Pearson to Peterborough - Ferguson to Man Utd - Fergie to Liverpool - Rodgers to......... Oh, please God Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!! :S

This part doesn't make a lot of sense, as the logical conclusion is that he should stay (to make sure Everton have the best opportunity to push on) pretty much irrespective of whether BK can conjure up some money by the summer or not.

The overall impression is that he is effectively blackmailing BK with the threat of getting on his bike unless he gets a decent transfer kitty. Really doesn't back-up his public eulogy of BK does it?

In some ways I applaud him putting the thumbscrews on BK but it seems in stark contrast to how he has actively talked up the regime, and the timing of his moral stance is appalling given that it may have had some negative effect on the team's performance at a crucial time whether the manager believes it or not.

Martin O'Neill failed at Villa and failed at Sunderland. His over-inflated reputation is entirely based on relative success at Leicester and Celtic. He is simply another media darling, which shows how much store you should put in their opinion.

Bullshit.

I'm still undecided on him. On one hand he's probably hit his level (6th/7th & no cups). On the other, it's not... well... so bad. Certainly could be worse. And if we were going to find some cash then he's earned the right to be the one who spends it.

Last point. His riposte to Kenwright should at last make it clear that this is a man of integrity. He'd dropped enough hints before but still some questioned his motives. Seemingly Kenwright's media games were the last straw and he's seen fit to go shit or bust.

If you asked me who is telling the truth regarding next year's budget - there's no question. It's Moyes.

Kenwright doesn't want anyone else, Moyes fits the bill (excuse the pun) in so many ways.

Moyes has nowhere to go (Mick #979) and is on the real 'deal of the century'.

This isn't about getting more money for players, it's about more money to stay, simple as that.

7 years ago I walked from a job with nothing to go to on principle - will Moyes walk with nothing to go to if he doesn't get his guarantees - which have conveniently not been outlined either so impossible to judge?

He'll be here next year - £4.5m p.a. for the next four years. And the train rolls on.....

Add to that the impact on the team of uncertainty around the manager and everything points to Moyes playing the long game, rather than looking for personal security.

Even if he goes Everton will be a very attractive proposition for any decent manager.

Ernie - there is a difference between us being hamstrung by a lack of money and 'fucked' because of it. If BK genuinely can't stump up more cash and DM leaves, he will be leaving for his own good not the good of the team / club (if he truly is the best we could hope for) which is what he claims is his ultimate intention.

I can understand his frustration at not being given the backing to move the club on, but that could have been expressed much more clearly by simply stating it (as he has apparently done off the record to media buddies, but still can't seem to manage for Evertonians).

If we start next season with David Moyes in charge then he is under extra pressure as he will have to produce the goods, which will be in stark contrast to the rest of his time here, also if the season doesn't start well and we find ourselves struggling for results how much patience will the Board have? or will they be hamstrung by the cost of ridding themselves of a manager to which they have granted god-like status?

He could easily have nailed this down with protective clauses written in his contract last year but he wants it known he's available - like hell he'd do nothing to harm EFC - doing it right now fella.

The man lives in a bubble of arrogance and delusion.

I may doubt the guy's competence but I don't doubt that if he could get his hands on substantial amounts then BK would give them to the manager.

DM is complicit because he is now apparently expecting more from a regime that he has claimed to be outstanding in the past, whilst plenty of ordinary blokes have pulled their hair out over the Moyes / Kenwright love-in that has helped to protect the Board from the scrutiny and criticism that they may well deserve.

It was stated on 5 live a couple of weeks ago that Moyes said (off the record to some media buddies) last summer that it was impossible for him to take Everton any further given the circumstances. If he can say that in private he should be able to articulate that clearly in public in a non-critical "it is unfortunate but that is just the way things are in the modern game for teams like Everton" sort of way.

This drawn out saga smacks of the manager hedging his bets as there is no way BK will be able to produce the money, just as he couldn't in January.

By the way, a tenner on Neil Lennon wouldn't be smart, it would be insane. I like Lennon and in some ways he is a hard man to like but he is not a premier league manager.

How does the likes of Newcastle and Wigan find money for players.
They have chairmen who invest some of their own money.
The FANS invest every time they buy a ticket to watch.
The FANS invest whenever they buy merchandise.
The FANS invest whenever they buy season tickets

Our tight arsed board of misdirectors do not pay to watch !!!

I will say it again...The money that was not spent on buying FER is still available.
The money that was set aside to bring in Ofoe on loan is still available
WITHOUT the sale of a player and that was stated by the club !!

If no money is provided for the manager at the end of this season then I believe that DM will not stay and the fans should protest at the disgraceful way our great club is being run.

The limited funds required for the loan of Ofoe probably made up the bulk of what we were going to give Twente upfront. The rest of the Fer money would be released a bit at a time over the course of the payment scheme, and probably the bulk of it was contingent on transfers out (which is why the collapse of one in January led to us desperately trying to renegotiate the payments at the last minute).

There is no evidence that the money is in place; are you really going to take someones word that it is?

The league is pressing for clubs to reduce debt and not inflate wage bills by imposing spending limits specifically around the new TV money.

What will Everton do? There are lots of things to pan out but there is the potential for a transfer fund. If I were about to sign up for a few years I'd want to know.

Everton are in my opinion the biggest club he will manage. He will sign regardless of how much he has to spend. He has done all this shit before in his last contract negotiations, got told a load of lies and stiil signed. He will repeat that again.

How do you know that the money is not available? Are you speaking for BK or are you Mystic Meg?

I'm sick of people like you meekly accepting that we have no money whereas teams like Newcastle and others do. This board do not invest their money... only the fans are true investors.

I do not believe that a club that consistently finishes in the top 10 of the league with crowds of 35,000 each week has no money. If you do then it's up to you and people like you are making excuses for this board.

Meanwhile you are all castigating a manager who has done a great job without financial help. They are true facts which is obvious to anyone with a brain!!

Wise words indeed.

BK will only use people as a human shield when it serves him, the second it doesn't he puts his best snake oil salesman hat on and comes up with his latest bullshitism which will deflect criticism from himself big time and at Moyes when he goes.

The only way the board will start spending money at Everton is when it's made of completely new faces and a new chairman... Don't hold your breath whilst BK still has a pulse.

The squad at sunderland isn't great but it's not piss poor either. Moyes coming in and getting things ship shape the way he did at the start of his Everton career might be very attractive to the Sunderland Board after a couple of years flirting with relegation. I could see them offering him a decent contract on the basis of this if nothing else. For a club in the condition they are in at the moment it would be the sensible thing to do. You wouldn't be expecting or asking him to win trophies but ask any Sunderland fan right now and a Moyes type manager would suit them.

Is that what we had in mind when we signed up to pledge our allegiance to the School of Science in the 00s, 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s or even 50s???

No AGMs, no transparency, club full of debt, now... LIES!

If there is nothing to hide, prove it!

The comfort he has at Everton he'll have nowhere else.

This is what he means when he says he'll do what's good for Everton FC. He doesn't want to put the club in more jeopardy than it already is.

Trevor, we have no money because we are spending more every season than we receive in income, it's simple McCawber economics.

Plus we're spending 30% of our income on something the chairman has no clue about.

Don't think we need anymore proof that he's going to stay. Unfortunately no better offers have come in so far and this is the first beginnings of a face saving step back, which will unfortunately see David Moyes remain manager for yet another 3-5 years.

So much for hoping.

While I don't think him or any manager stalling on a contract is good for the club, I don't really think he is holding the club to ransom. I think that he needs to make a proper decision soon though one way or the other. If it was me I would walk because I can't see the Board changing thrier approach or the banks stumping up any more cash.

Putting it as subtly as I can... He does not give a fuck how much he will have to spend in the transfer market. He went through exactly the same scenario the last time his contract was due for renewal. He made all the right noises about needing finance to stay, got given fuck all that he could not raise on player sales, AND STILL SIGNED HIS MASSIVELY IMPROVED CONTRACT.

I hear where you're coming from, but I do believe that after 11 years he does care about our club, no matter what people think of him. I just think BK is panicking and is finding what he can lay his hands on to keep him.

"I have always said we should wait until the end of the season, because by that time we will see where the club is and how we can move forward.

"That is big for me, as I want to know if there is a chance that Everton in the future can continue to compete at this level and if anything, get better."

Now if you consider the clubs Everton FC are competing with Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool, the odds of Everton being able to spend their way into Europe are remote. All of these clubs for one reason or another will be stronger next season and we need to spend to just keep hanging on to their coat-tails never mind compete with them on an even keel. Short of an announcement of a new buyer or new stadium I just can't see where the current board can give David Moyes what he wants without further jeopardising our already precarious financial state.

I'm sure we all want what David Moyes wants – a winning team competing regularly in Europe but are we prepared to pay the price for that, both individually and as a club. Season ticket prices can't be increased as it won't serve its purpose of raising much needed cash, the more I read the differing versions of DM's reasons, the more it looks like he will leave at the end of the season short of BK winning the European Lottery 3 weeks on the trot.

Where on earth do you get your information from ??

People like you who make excuses for our board really annoy me.
Let THEM make their own excuses don't help them.

Fact is we supposedly had money to sign FER and brought him over for a medical.
He was scouted at the clubs expense.
Fact number two..we had money supposedly available to sign Ofoe on loan.
Fact three..we LOANED OUT four players since January and only Barkley is back.

If we have spent no money since then it must be available, or can you make yet another feeble excuse for the board.

Teams like Sunderland and other relegation threatened clubs have spent money during the January transfer window although they get much less place money than we do.

Our squad is smaller than a lot of relegation threatened clubs and also mid table clubs.
We have actually used LESS players during this season than ANY other club.

Other chairmen and boards INVEST their money in their clubs.
The only investors at EFC are the FANS !!!!

Maybe we should adopt the motif 'Everton FC – the other people's club'

Many a true word...

Di Matteo has said he's only interested in a club that will play champions league football next year and Schalke are currently battling for the last CL place with Frankfurt, but its really tight and anyone of about 5-6 clubs are still in with a shout and it will go to the wire. Bayern long won the league and BVB should have 2nd taken care of. 3rd and 4th are still open.

Di Matteo also has the advantage of having won trophies and more importantly can speak German...

Still if Schalke don't get into the CL, then I guess there's still some hope of Moyes going there.

Spot on mate. Only thing I don't agree on is I think he may sign, albeit a 3 yr deal or something.

On another post someone said a deal for Heitinga to go fell through because of a cock-up over how long he had left on his contract, and this meant the club didn't have as much money available as they had expected. This has the ring of truth about it for me as there was a lot of speculation about JH's future at the club if you think back.

BK may be an Evertonian but he does not have huge amounts of cash of his own and his fellow board members are obviously not interested in pumping money into the club.

Most of the cash the club generates goes on players wages (as someone else has said we have payed a lot to retain our best for as long as possible) and the rest is swallowed up by operating costs that include a hefty chunk of interest on loans. The smaller clubs that outspend us are either racking up their debt or have more generous (foolish Martin Mason would call them) Board members.

We can rant and rail against the injustice of it but we can't make the Board hand over their own money if they don't want to. The manager can try to force their hand if he chooses, but his motives in delaying signing remain dubious to me considering the number of times he has actively bigged-up the Chairman in the past.

I don't think Moyes will be offered a better job. Yet. Can anyone see him staying on a one year rolling type contract thing. Surely not. Yet I feel BK would basically bend over backwards and pull his pants down if he thought it would make him stay. Say what you like about Moyes but while he's here we won't get relegated and that will do for BK.

A petulant, self-absorbed, dummy spitting no-mark who will find an excuse to walk away as soon as he fucks up. They sacked O'Neill for this histrionic, vastly over-rated fascist?

Moyes will not likely get a job straight away if he leaves, but he can wait a bit, take a break for a year or whatever, or he could do some media work, he's worked for 5 live before.

Kenwright will lose his favourite if negotiations don't go well.

If Moyes stays and manages to get some cash, then I'd be very happy. If Moyes stays and there's no cash, then I would rather he will leave, just because I can see his heart not being in the job anymore. No signs of progression.

Either way, something has to change.

Fact 1. our expenditure was £9.5M more than our income.

Fact 2. That figure was after the sale of assets of around £10M so we're actually losing around £20M per year in real terms.

Fact 3. The net debt has stayed the same, which means money is being found to pay debt.

Fact 4. The only assets we have to sell are players.

Fact 5. We have no money.

Seems to me that YOU are the one that believes the board's lies about having money to spend on players.

The reported income of £82M includes £20M of NEXT SEASON'S early bird season ticket sales which means our actual losses are worse than the accounts tell.

Which again adds up to NO MONEY.

Get the German papers online. He is not mentioned in any of the ones I have read. Stinks of an agent's input to me.

Quote from Jags above. This is why Moyes is holding on before signing a contract. It used to be a closed shop at Everton but with players and coaches (Stubbs) coming forward and asking for money, the pressure is on Bill more than ever to come up trumps. He might have to re-mortgage a theatre.

If the club is to seriously move forward in the medium to longer term, Moyes needs to go. (We will not get relegated and the club will still exist without Moyes, unlike some people would have us believe).

Gavin - I agree with you, I really can't see Moyes at Schalke. They are a relatively progressive side and I just can't see what Moyes would bring to them. They don't start every season with the goal of simply staying up, their normal aim is to at the minimum get into the CL places, if not have an outside chance of winning the title - doesn't exactly fit with Moyes OM!

What will the Everton manager get? Possibly price of one decent player if we don't sell anyone, the price of two if we do.

I wrote an article for TW (that seems to have been lost in the ether) saying how the small window of CL opportunity will soon be closing. The likes of Arsenal, Tottenham and the RS are considerably better placed than us financially and can be expected to all spend upwards of £20m net this Summer whereas I would expect us to once again have a break even if not negative net spend.

Add to that the increased stability of AVB and Brenda along with the possible return of Mourinho to Chelsea and it looks as though we may well struggle to keep pace, with or without Moyes. I fear the club's failure to boost this season's decent Champions league push with new signings in January may cost us and have shut the door on our best opportunity for the next few years at least.

I am sadly resigned to the fact that we'll be stuck with Moyes for 3-5 more years as I can't see him get a better job than Everton. If he would have left 2 or 3 years earlier, he might have been in a better job by now.