Too many people I felt had an off night but it was a great performance by Palace too, I give them a lot of credit. We were beaten by the better team on the night.

We have a terrific game on Sunday and still plenty to be proud of and play for. The season is not over yet

I can understand why Roberto added the attacking flair to break down the bus, but the foundations were just too weak.

A number of players had an off night, whilst we lacked the cohesive glue that Osman, McCarthy and Naismith offer over some of the other starters.

I didn't expect to see the run continue to the end of the season, we all didn't. Everton have bounced back from defeats before, and it starts again on Sunday. COYB.

We were soft last night and got easily bullied out of every 50/50. Mirallas, for instance, was busy complaining to the referee at one point after losing the ball. Deulofeu is a tricky little winger but he had no business being out there against a load of six foot Pulis thugs last night.

I'd have played my biggest, strongest side. And Naismith is never afraid to put his head or a boot in neither, and so should have started.

Considering we had a forward with the stature of Frank Bruno he played like a total pussy, in all honesty. He should have been one of the ones sticking up for our boys but he failed at that miserably.

This is part of of the gig of being a blue supporter. The manager got it wrong last night, you don't rotate your back four and you don't rotate your central mid field. Central midfield rotation might be an option if Gibson was fit but we don't have the numbers in that area.

Sunday's another day and with expectations put firmly back in their box I for one expect a better performance.

We finished 4th in 2005 and we had a team that included Steve Watson, Marcus Bent, Kevin Kilbane and James Beattie. We have a much better squad now.

We also finished 5th in 2008 and 2009.

I’m not so sure that its remarkable that we are in touching distance of 4th. I would claim that we are and have been a very good side for the last decade and challenging for 4th is the set standard.

Roberto has done a very good job maintaining those standards.

Excellent article. Crushed hope just seems to go with the territory of being an Evertonian.The French writer, Albert Camus, once said he learnt more about life playing football than he did in allhis philosophical readings. Last night would have driven him to suicide.

Just a point about corners. Roberto apparently believes that corners (unlike free kicks) are a waste of time in terms of producing goals. Statistically he has a point. But does that justify us having no tactical variation on the hopeful punt? And seemingly no defensive strategy against opposition corners? Time to change that statistic.

Peter - If Roberto doesn't like corners why does he allow the players to take the same corners over and over again without any variation in the delivery, some of the dead-ball delivery needs working on and no Premier League team should allow a free-header in the centre of the six yard box but we did and paid the price. Hopefully, by the start of next season these type of problems will be ironed out and worked upon.

Our attack was too crowded yesterday which limited opportunities as players opportunities became restricted. The wall of yellow defenders was clearly constructed to play for a point and in the end we were undone by our own ambition to overcome a perception of their team. There was a moment when Barkley ran from at their defence from about 20 yards out and there must been 8 Palace players between him and the goal. He was just crowded out. Once again, I think Martinez needs to be praised for his substitutions. He recognised the futility of the line up by bringing on Naismith who scored and freed up Mirallas who also scored. McCarthy made a huge difference when he came on; like others I have no idea why he was rested as to my mind he is the heartbeat of the current team.

Martinez is also right to say we still have a chance of finishing fourth. We've simply lost the slight advantage that we had in a close race. It isn't over yet.

However you then take a look at Arsenal and see a team that expect to play in the Champions League. They have misfired all season long but this is the very lowest of their aspirations and the very highest of ours. The mental attitudes are consequently totally different and anyone who plays sport knows that the former has the upper hand until it is forced from them.

Chances are we know that Arsenal will up their game to ensure qualification unless we raise our game twice as much to keep them in 5th. Can we raise our game twice as much as they can raise theirs?

It can still be done as Arsenal still have to play two teams fighting relegation but they have the capacity to finish their season strongly, albeit apologetically. Three games in a week hurts us more than them.

But if we beat United on Sunday its on again!

Usually after a loss (reality check), we come up stronger and Man Utd we could match (if we can match Arsenal, we can match anyone)

The race for just getting more exciting!

Yesterday we sent 4 players forward for corners (even at 0-2). Then all those 4 would charge the first post and Baines, Mirallas or Deulofeu etc would punt the ball at the far post. It's not like yesterday was the first time – this has been our preferrered corner strategy.

Our squad now consists of more ball players than wrestlers, but still. Surely, it would be ok to at least give corners a go?

Fair point about the corners. Maybe we need 3 or 4 players per game taking them just to mix them up a bit.

Personally at the moment, every time we have a corner, I don't expect much. When the opposition has one, I get jittery.

On the plus side, I thought McGeady played well. Bring on the Mancs and let's finish the season well.
COYB!!!

Ross wasn't playing as a holding midfield player, he was the free man, the box to box midfielder to give us an extra attacking edge against a team that would crowd us out around the penalty area. Get used to it – as opposed to two defensive midfielders – for home games as this is how most teams will set up against us.

He's going to be (alot) better than Gerrard by the way, think about Gerrard's first season in the top league as a 20-year-old.

Not sure why Martinez doesn't think this can't be a weapon — just look at Skrtel with 7 goals and we have 3 centre-backs with none.

I would love to get CL next season, but in my view if we finish above MU and Spurs this season that is progress and especially as we have already beaten our best points tally in the PL.

We (and I in particular) feel gutted at any loss (and in the 50 or more years I have supported the Blues, there have been a few!) but this season has been far better than I had hoped for, given the circumstances, and the football we play is far better (most of the time) I think we just need to be a bit more realistic as to what we can achieve in a new managers first season. Even that lot next door struggled last season when BR took over and now look at them.

I think next season will be even better and am looking forward to really pushing for 4th. I also reckon the game on Sunday will be more winnable than last night because they will not put 10 behind the ball, just as long as RM has learnt his mistake from last night about making too many changes to a winning team and I am sure he will, well I hope so !

Was it nerves? Or just one of those games? We now have to hope Arsenal slip up and if they do you feel it will be against Hull on Sunday. If we do manage to get back into pole position, one tiny consolation may be that Man City are no longer fighting for the title when they visit us (come on Chelsea).

Who'd be an Evertonian?

You take your chances in this game with both hands, you have to make them count when they present themselves, look at the other lot across the park. Do you think they are thinking "Well if we don't win the title, we have performed better than expected". No you don't! They are going all out to win it with the right mindset, which is. "If you want it, you'll have to take it from us kicking and screaming".

Having got that off my chest, I said before the game that (a) Palace wouldn't be a pushover, (b) Puncheon is in the form of his life and we would need to keep him quiet, (c) IF we won, it would be by the odd goal.

So, when I saw the set up of the team, I said to my son, "That's brave" and the reply was "He's going for it". Which were both true statements before the kick-off. Unfortunately, it was too "brave"; we were brittle at the back without the pivotal duo of McCarthy and Barry and RM should have changed that after about 20 minutes and the first goal.

In terms of going for it, we did anything but in my opinion. We looked frightened to death. Deulofeu was the only one having a go and the rest were just passing it sideways, sideways, sideways. Barkley was centre stage and seemed overwhelmed. The balance was missing.

I expected big changes at half time; the side needed the full surgery of three subs at that point and a new sense of purpose. When that surgery didn't arrive, it came as no surprise to me that the second half played out the same as the first until the final subs were made. Finally some invention. Use of both sides of the pitch. Chances. Too late.

Last night showed me that we are not mentally ready for the pressure that comes with competing in the top four. Hopefully, that strength will come with experience for all concerned. I hope I am proved wrong and Arsenal continue to be inconsistent and we nudge ahead. But, after last night's performance I just can't see it.

I was itching to think of next season, coming home from work for evening Champions Leage games. "The Champions" song echoing in the background as the Stella Artois gave way to game.

Alas, we are painfully reminded that, we are Everton. Their time wasting keeper, seeing 11 men behind the ball, and that shit shot from Barkley when possession so valuable to hold.... yeah, still hurts in the morning.

Good run ... but, if you can't beat or draw Palace at home when you control your own destiny, you have no business talking about the CL

Tony is right: they bottled it.

As long-suffering Evertonians, when do we get to question a manager and his players' mental strength, desire and commitment to win if not after games such as last night's, Patrick?

I remember being slaughtered on ToffeeWeb in March 2005 after posting questioning those very qualities we seem to lack as a club after lying down to the Dark Side scum in the Anfield derby. As it happens, ultimately, I was wrong and we did finish 4th then, albeit largely down to some gritty, battling performances with the likes of Cahill, Carsley and Gravesen in the team. We won't this year, because we don't have what it takes within the team or in the mentality of the club and things will never change with the current set-up still in place.

I'm not sure what top to bottom gutting you feel will turn Everton around Martin but I for one feel as though some great foundations are being set this season. It's not as if telling a kid 'good job' at every turn builds self esteem, neither will bleating 'we are Everton' to a group of players set a mentality.

RM has the team playing for him and believing in his system. There appears to be a strong comradery and belief amoungst the players. There is a core group who mirror past dogs-of-war in Coleman, Jags, Barkley, McCarthy, Naismith and a manager who can seemingly attract talent while also showing belief in our youth system. This is the foundation for winning games and hopefully silverware which ultimately is the only way to build a winning mentality in the club.

Now if only this could be backed up with some business acumen and investment by the board.

Every bloody game we ever lose the comment is the same. But sometimes teams lose.

By "bottled it", can we just be honest and say "they didn't play well and came up against a team that did play well".

It's hugely hugely disappointing. But I'm not going to lose hope. It's perfectly reasonable to think that Arsenal might drop points at Hull; they're not playing particularly well and can see Hull wanting to make a pre-FA Cup statement. They're also likely to be distracted on the last day of the season, with an FA Cup final only six days away (meanwhile we'll have a no doubt second XI Hull to contend with).

We missed a big chance to get our noses in front of Arsenal. It's frustrating and disappointing. It also won't be the only chance.

The hope hasn't killed me quite yet.

Sam 958

I wouldn’t disagree with the above. In fact, I did actually intend to qualify my comments by saying what you have said, however, you can’t deny surely that this current team do not have the fighting qualities displayed by the players I mentioned which very much got us ’over the line’ to 4th place in 2005. It pains me beyond belief to say it, but, if we had an ounce of what those fuckers across the park have in belief and determination, then it would have been very different. I mean, we are talking about a bunch of average but determined players married with albeit the best two strikers and tosser face Stevie Me. What do you get? Probably the next champions. Title winners.

Paul 964

"RM has the team playing for him and believing in his system.........
.......There is a core group who mirror past dogs-of-war in Coleman, Jags, Barkley, McCarthy, Naismith"

Really, do you think so? I must be watching a different Coleman, Jags, Barkley, McCarthy if these mirror past ’dogs of war’ such as those I mentioned. Very god players but dogs of war?Please do me a favour.
Don’t even get me started on the likes of Lukaku and Mirallas, lazy buggers.

As you say Martinez needs to be backed financially by the board and the current/or another chairman. If not, then this may have been our best tilt at the top four for the foreseeable, because the others will strengthen year on year and Man Utd won’t be as inconsistent and poor as this with or without that lying twat in charge next season.

Don’t get me wrong, I am excited by what Roberto has achieved but only to a point as this this team has its limitations and the problems next season with the rebuilding needed to offset the loan returnees and lack of funding we usually suffer from will not be easy to overcome.

Tell that to Chelsea then. Tell Mr Mourinhio that losing to Crystal Palace should leave you with no right to talk of Champions league. There is so much over-reaction on here lately.

We are where we are and I would guess that not many would have had us in 5th with 4 games to go this season. Everyone was talking of mid table and a big transition. If we don't believe, then why should the players (who are in the main not supporters).

Start thinking like winners, get busy living or get busy dying. The choice is yours. Me, I still believe we can get 4th and wont stop till it is impossible. Arsenal probably felt that it had slipped away last week and hopefully will again next week.

Dean Adams, we don't need to tell Mourinho that Chelsea's loss to Palace should leave them with no right to talk of champions League, because the big difference is, that loss won't stop them qualifiying for next year's Champions league, whereas our loss has seriously damaged our chances.

And as for telling fans to start "thinking like winners", the sad fact is that until the team start behaving like it, then it is difficult for fans to do. All too often, on the big occasions, the team let us down when it really counts

If we fail to make the top 4 again, it will because we are trying to dislodge teams who's total value is 3 to 5 times the value of ours.
Until we can get the sort of investment in the team that gives us some sort of parity with Chelsea, City, Utd and even rs. were trying to pull off the virtually impossible.

The teams pulled up trees to get within touching distance of the top 4, there has been very few games where they have failed to live up to expectations.

If we do manage to beat Utd the confidence levels with be through the roof again and we can eat our Easter eggs with a smile. It wouldn't be Everton if we made it easy would it?

However, we have to acknowledge that Palace are a vastly improved outfit and we're not going to be pushover despite their league position and Everton's recent results. Palace, whilst not having a great scoring record this season certainly have had a great defensive one.

After the euphoria of the Arsenal game the Blues were less than impressive against Sunderland but I was amazed that RM left out Naismith and McCarthy for the Palace game and it was evident from early on that something was wrong with the Blues defensively and whilst I expected Everton to find it hard to score I couldn't believe that Palace found so much space and time when they attacked.

It goes without saying if Everton had scored first and early things may have turned out differently but they never looked like doing so.

Sadly it may well be that the disastrous home games against Palace and Sunderland will keep them from Champions League.

Get a grip, we are 1 point behind 4th, we lost to Palace, so did Chelsea, we beat Arsenal and Man Utd, we've taken 4 points off Arsenal and a possible 6 off Man Utd. Suddenly, the performance against Arsenal home and away and the win at Old Trafford is forgotten. I am just glad some on here are too young to have been in the trenches in the 1940s.

How many expected Sunderland to get a draw away to Man City? People might think Arsenal have an easy run-in, but just like Everton and City found out, they are the banana skins of games and trust me Arsenal will not have it all their own way in the final run-in.

Now stop cry-arsing, lick your wounds, and get behind the team; it's far from over yet. COYB

McCarthy and Barry have played in almost every game this season. They have been excellent and there is never going to be a good time to not play them, if you don't have adequate cover. We don't have the cover until Gibson comes back, and McCarthy wasn't fit enough to start on Wednesday.

I don't know what the fans' reaction will be but I doubt it will a standing ovation.

Moyes press conference before the game will be along the lines of....

"The club will always be special to me.... I look for Everton's result first.... I have still got some very good friends there... Bill and my relationship was great." etc etc.

A complete phoney character.

I have to admit, before the season started, I was a massive Roberto doubter. "Relegation Roberto" etc ... but now I have nothing but praise about the man. We may fall short, or who knows, his optimism may inspire us to make the top 4 this season. But for once, I'm finally enjoying this game again!

Thank You Roberto.
PS: Sort out the corners!!! I can't believe how poor we are at them.

Looks like they think 'we should be back where we belong' at 7th! I sincerely hope not. I was beginning to think Martinez and his team were better than that. Sunday will establish the truth.

I think RM has done very well this season, to put it mildly. I seem to recall that, back when he was appointed manager, there were more than one or two doubters. I think it was Neville Southall who said that it showed a lack of ambition by the club. I wonder what he thinks now!?

Personally I think that we are 2 or 3 players short in our squad and I think that will count against us. We are like a good marathon runner that has kept pace with the favourites but, in doing so, has expended a lot of energy and there's not a lot left in the tank. I think that Roberto can and will lead us to the Champions League, but not this season.

I obviously hope that I am wrong – but, even if we miss out on a CL place, I think there is still much to proud of this season.

On a very personal note, having inoperable cancer, I am hoping and battling to be around to see us get there, but I thought that I would never see Ireland win the 6 Nations again and look what happened!!! At the very least we deserve 5th ahead of those prima donnas from Spurs, how much did they spend last summer? Not far short of £100M.

I tuned into the Semi-Final, Arsenal v Wigan Athletic, at an opportune moment, just as Gomez was scoring the penalty to put Wigan 1-0 up. It was interesting to see the Arsenal fans when the cameras foused on them. They looked very angry with their team and their manager. Indeed, reading some footy mags last summer, there were a number who wanted Wenger to go. Clearly they do NOT know their history!

So let's not be like those moaning Gooners – who really do only seem to sing when their winning; let's get behind Roberto and the team. COYB!!

Oh yeh. Spurs won four matches 1-0 at the start of the season on penalties alone. Three of them where dubious. Remove six points from them. As for our neighbours are concerned we know how many they get even when no contact is made by defenders!

To all the doubters out there... There will be bad days but believe in the facts and what you see. COYBB

I've said all season that I think our players are good enough to qualify ( said it last season too ) .

I think if we had simply organised ourselves to defend set pieces we would already have qualified now.

I will give Martinez all the credit he deserves if we qualify, but I blamed the manager for failing last year and I will blame the manager if we fail this year

The Utd game Sunday will be tough, I see Rooney will be in the team but RVP is out which is good news.
They still have some class players in the side though, the bookies are making us favs but only just.

I said before the Palace game that it was a must win, well the same applies to this game but more so!

I cant say I'm feeling too confident, but RM and the boys will be giving it their best shot I'm sure.

Lets hope we get the run of the ball.

No disrespect to Palace at all, Pullis is a great manager (very much in the old school mould as Moyes) and he's done amazing things there, but we simply have more class and this was an opportunity not so much missed as thrown away.

The line-up was ridiculous and I have no idea what Martinez was thinking – he's never broken the central midfield combination previously and I don't see why he started now; McCarthy clearly wasn't injured. Likewise he'd never played Mirallas, Deulofeu, McGeady and Barkley together before and you could see why. For starters the balance was shot to pieces and besides, having 3 wide players on top of our overlapping full-backs is a great strategy for getting balls into the box, but how many of our goals have come from that, or corners? (Answer – not a lot).

Instead of creating a host of attacking chances, all we did was cede our defensive and midfield stability and give Palace freedom to come at us (which they did). It's not coincidence we looked so much more dangerous when we had Macca and Osman on (not that Leon did much mind).

To be fair, a number of players let themselves down also – Lukaku was poor, Mirallas may have been willing but, goal aside, he fluffed more than he created, and Baines was exposed for pace a number of times. But, for all the praise we give Robbie when he gets it right (and it's been more often than not), I think he needs to take the rap when he gets it badly wrong, as he did this week.

I just hope Hull can do us a favour and keep us in the hunt, or at very least put up more resistance than West Ham who were pretty spineless.

So, we lost at home to Sunderland and Crystal Palace. Who did we beat that we never really tried to take on these last decades? Going for a draw doesn't count...