Giles and Revie

Liam. We were always led to believe that Revie was the man who invented the dossier, so the idea of them not spending too much time on the opposition doesnÂ’t add up. Of course, this may have already been done on the training ground.

Whatever it was, Revie and his team knew what their rivals had for breakfast. Nothing was left unturned. If they knew someone didnÂ’t like to be kicked, they would kick him.

Liam (73), this is the same Don Â’Half a loaf is better than nowtÂ’ Revie who used to give his players massive dossiers on the opposition when he was England manager, even when they were playing the likes of Cyprus. Some of the players regarded the dossiers as a joke but really it shows how thorough Revie was in his preparations for a game.

Don’t believe for one minute that he sent Leeds out to just play football, spending little time on the opposition – he used to have Paul Madeley following Alan Ball all over the pitch.

Harold,

"We were always led to believe that Revie was the man who invented the dossier"

GilesÂ’s point was that Revie always set the team out to play football; so play to their strengths and not worry about the strength of the opposition and youÂ’ll win more than you lose.

He was particularly referring to IrelandÂ’s dismal showing in Celtic Park recently; but that was RevieÂ’s simplistic model.

Liam. Reading your thread, I take it youÂ’re a youngster. Revie and that sly little bastard Giles were two of the biggest cynics to be associated with football. They knew every sly trick in the book and used them on a regular basis. If you want a true picture of both of them, watch the film That Damned United and listen to what Clough said to them on his first day in charge.

Giles was a disgrace and, in the main, Leeds were probably one of the most hated clubs this country has ever produced – for good reason.

Liam, to those of us who were around at the time, Revie may have been a clever tactician but his idea of Â’playing footballÂ’ was to kick shit out of every team Leeds played!

Giles was always a good talker but he was renowned as a sly bleeder who used every trick in the book and a lot more out of it. To cite Leeds as any kind of model for Everton to follow is not to "know yer Â’istory"!

Phil 85: Spot on.

Phil, Geoff,

I was around at the time – albeit a youngster in the ’70s but guys, horses for courses: these were hard men in a game for hard men – unlike the non-contact sport we see today.

IÂ’m assuming you both supported Everton through the Â’80s; did you ever read some of the RatÂ’s comments or Psycho Pat on kicking the fuck out of the opposition if any of our ball players were touched. Where these guys also Â’sly bleedersÂ’?

Giles and the likes of Bremner were good players and would be Everton legends if they had played in Blue.

Liam, IÂ’m with Harold on this one (and, usually, others too); Revie was renowned for using dossiers to allow each Leeds Utd player to have the full knowledge on their opponents.

I imagine if youÂ’re a football fan, you would associate Giles with Leeds. I did, but when I went to see him as an after-dinner speaker in Chester years ago with Nobhead Styles, once heÂ’d realised that the vast majority of people there were Man Utd supporters, he just about airbrushed his time at Leeds Utd from his routine and focused on the 93 games at Man Utd and not the 383 at Leeds Utd. He almost played as many games at WBA as he did at Man Utd but didnÂ’t mention those, either.

So, the point I suppose IÂ’m making is not to take much of what that odious little twat says as being accurate.

Ah those Revie dossiers, Ray (or should I exclude the "i"?). Good job we donÂ’t say any of that today, all those detailed instructions.

I disagree, Ray.

IÂ’ve seen him speak live too and thought he was very entertaining. He spoke about Man Utd, Leeds Utd, WBA, Ireland and Shamrock Rovers; but then he was trying to entertain the audience in Dublin as opposed to Chester.

CanÂ’t imagine thereÂ’s too many Leeds, West Brom or Shamrock Rovers supporters in Chester.

Liam, so, you disagree... I thought you might(!), do you not think that the reason he was entertaining at your venue was because he spoke about ALL his clubs, and not just catered for the Man Utd fans? I would imagine he had more stories about his time at Dirty Leeds than he did in his relatively few games at Man Utd...

Brent, true, I canÂ’t imagine anyone sat on the subs bench these days listening to the managerÂ’s assistant prattle on for 10 minutes as he points out set plays etc on a clip board. Hang on a minute,...

Liam, donÂ’t confuse the term Â’hard" with that of Â’cynicalÂ’ and Â’slyÂ’. The term Â’hard manÂ’ for me means a player who sees a 50-50 situation but goes in head on with guns blazing to win the ball fairly. Giles was a sly little fuck who would kick his own mother as long as he could do it from behind.

I have always valued being known as an Evertonian because, in the main, followers of other clubs have always associated this club with the better side of football. As you point ou,t supporters will, in the main, overlook shortcomings in players. All I can say to you about that is, if Giles had played for Everton, you and I wouldnÂ’t be having this discussion today.

DonÂ’t get mixed up with Â’legendÂ’ and Â’leg endÂ’.

Ray, surely it makes sense for Giles to talk about his time at Man Utd if heÂ’s confronted with an audience of United fans. Just as Bobby Latch talks about Birmingham when he goes back there, Martin Dobson chats about Burnley when heÂ’s there, Graeme Stuart, Chelsea etc.

Giles was a sneaky player, but very skillful too and as for Bremner, one of CatterickÂ’s biggest regrets was when he just missed out on pinching him from Leeds when he was still a youngster. He would have been part of a great midfield alongside his fellow-redhead Ball, and Colin Harvey. But in that case, we might not have signed HK and our history would be totally different!

Yeah Ray; next time I go to a night with Duncan Ferguson I must remember to ask him to tell us some anecdotes about his time at Newcastle; or maybe TC could concentrate on the Londeners; Arteta could tell us all about his Champions League experience at Arsenal on a good old Goodison evening.

My point is – there’s a term used frequently in my business entitled ’Localisation’ – broadly broken down as "Don’t irritate your audience".

Liam

Revie never kept anything simple. He ammassed dossier after dossier on every opposition. Now Clough, he kept it simple. Passing football, ball in the box, header, goal.

Also, Revie was the one who went on about honesty and integrity and slaughtered Clough for being outspoken against successful figures in football, but his Leeds side was probably one of the most reviled, cynical team in English football history.

Plus letÂ’s not forget the fact that this man of integrity and honesty, as he so often preached, wormed his way out of the England job by first asking for a golden handshake from the FA, and then, after he got it, running off to the UAE to negotiate with them whilst still under contract.

Liam, I bet Ferguson has got some anecdotes about Newcastle, but I bet he has many more about Everton. My point being that you will entertain an audience better if you talk about events that will mean something to everyone, events that you are better known for rather than wittering on about a short period of your career, a time when you were younger with little experience.

If Cottee was speaking in Norwich, do you think heÂ’d have more to say about his time there than he would if he was speaking about West Ham or Everton? Mention it by all means, but donÂ’t focus solely on it in the way that Giles did.

Localisation may be great in your business but I bet your business isnÂ’t after-dinner speaking......

Liam, you are quite entitled to make heroes of whomsoever you wish. Just that in the case of Revie and Giles you are welcome to them!

Giles and Clarke were not hard, they were sly and cowardly.

IÂ’ve spoken to ex-pros who tell of being "helped up" after a "mis-timed" tackle and, on the blind side of the referee, having hair and ears pulled. When they reacted, the ref assumed it was them just being aggressive to a gentlemanly gesture.

I remember standing on the cinders behind the goal at Elland Road seeing Gabby with a head wound so bad he had to keep wiping the blood spilling from his bandage out of his eyes.

They were twats led by a twatmaster.

Giles was a thug hiding behind a football shirt.

Tommy Smith said that Giles and Clarke were the dirtiest players he ever played against. Full of ankle-tapping and over-the-top stuff.

He did not have a go at Norman Hunter or Bremner although they were both tough tacklers. He reckoned they were both hard but fair.

West was scared stiff of Jack Charlton though and hated the way he stood on the line at corners. They got Collins too soon from us, that's why I didn't like them too.

Is this the same Liam Reilly who in another thread said, and I quote: "No wonder Evertonians are known as Bitter Blues" or is the one I’m thinking of some relative of Mr Giles?

Who was the young midfielder we had in the early seventies who knocked Giles out cold in the centre circle? Was his name Styles?

All I can remember is Giles niggling away at the lad for about half an hour and constant bickering between the two. Then something happened at the Gwlady end and everybody's attention was drawn there, including the referee. Styles (if that was the lad's name) took advantage of that and landed Giles a right uppercut. It knocked him flat out and the lad just jogged away.

Does anybody else remember this?

Liam, you're flogging a dead horse here, other than play for the RS (would fit right in) Giles couldn't sink much lower in the eyes of many of a certain age. Revie was the Sultan of Snide and Giles was his Grand Poobah. Read the recent thread on the Leeds game of 50 years ago, you couldn't find anyone to say a decent word about him, except... that he could play a bit – so why the agrro?

Not only a snide but a revisionary snide. Giles, in a later Biography tried to play down the whole Dirty Leeds thing by saying ( gist )... so we went to Goodison and kicked lumps off hard cases like Gabriel and Morrissey. We went to Anfield and kicked lumps off hard cases like Smith and Yeats... I don't think so.

Trevor; In his autobiography, Big Jack said he did the whole goalline thing to upset defenders and keepers and it worked. They scored off it. He then said he heard Westy say right lads, leave him to me and 15 stone of (then) solid muscle sent him flying... "I didn't try it again," wrote Big Jack. Somehow that doesn't sound like Westy was scared.

Just remembered, it was Archie Styles. He was a left back... could have sworn he was a ball-winning midfielder. Could have been a good boxer too if I've got the right lad.

Such a shame about the Revie connection which would have corrupted any player. Giles was an exquisite footballer who could drop long passes on to a tanner and an exceptional manager for a while. He was absolute Everton material if we'd have got him young.

Leeds too, they ended up playing the finest football I've ever seen with none of the filth they displayed earlier on. Funnily his England spell showed Revie to be pretty incompetent but with the players he had it was easy, Giles, Cooper, Bremner, Reaney, Madely, Jones, Sniffer Clarke, Gray, etc., massive talent.

Dave Roberts (30), Archie Styles went to Birmingham City with Howard Kendall as part of the deal which brought Bob Latchford to Everton.

I think Duncan McKenzie is married to his sister.

I think Revie's success was being able to memorise the names of his players.

Link

Then who was the young Fullback, who, along with David Johnson and Alan Whittle, got moved along pretty smartish as a result of the so-called (for then) Holly Lodge School Girl Scandal... sounds worse (or should that be better?) than it actually was as all concerned were well over 16.