Premier League — Matchday 16

Only 2 points above the bottom 3 now...

How do you work that out, Paul? Leicester and Hull both lost and Burnley won... So Burnley have 15 points but the third from bottom team are now QPR on 14. We have 18 so we are 4 points above the bottom 3.

Paul ainÂ’t the best at sums Patrick mate. Ask him about the Number 12 from Thursday night!

Looking at the scores, it would seem that defences have tightened up all round.

Southampton have just lost their 4th successive match.

Which means they are certainties to beat us next week.

How many strikers get their first goal against us too ?

It's crazy.

Burnley! Burnley! Burnley!

The Mrs. has a soft spot in her heart for Burnley.

Gawd we need 3 points Monday night coupled with draws for the remaining 3 games. Then again if the INOF brigade lost I'd be just as happy with that.

Going back to what Paul said however, to be 4 points ahead of 18th at this stage of the season is - take your pick: (1) Absolutely scandalous; (2) fucking disgraceful; (3) deeply disappointing; (4) unacceptable given the hope we had at the start of the third week in August.

Listen, we are three points ahead of Burnley, one point ahead of IrivineÂ’s boys (relegation certs in the eyes of more than a few), and nicely and neatly tucked in 10 points behind the Happy Hammers!!!!!!!

Un-fucking-acceptable!

We could do with Arsenal beating Newcastle. I think we got more chance of catching Newcastle than Arsenal in the next few weeks.

Southampton are in free-fall by the looks of it; as much as I like them, I said this would happen.

Things would look a lot better if we could manage a couple of wins in our next couple of games – not unachievable but nevertheless difficult given the form so far this season.

Sitting on 24 points after 17 matches could make a big difference to our outlook come Christmas. I don't want to consider any other scenario – it's far too painful.

Good goal from that man Giroud again.

Next three are all winnable, Patrick. Southampton, QPR then Stoke. Newcastle away could be difficult then beat Hull. 13 points from next 15 not impossible. Ever the optimist me!

Patrick (#10), how often have we said that this season? – "If we could just manage a couple of wins" – and we don’t do it and we fall short when we have a chance to make some sort of significant stride up the league. Sadly those moments will be few and far between for the time being at any rate because there are now largish gaps appearing in point totals between 4th, 5th, 6th and those below.

And Arse have just scored and so we fall further behind..... Great header and leap – Lee Dixon just said ’remember Bob Latchford’ – and how the feck was Cahill not sent off for that dive?

I haven’t seen the Cahill ’dive’ – I watched the horrible Leicester City v Man City match, a total dirge of a game with little to get excited about.

Paul,

You know exactly why Cahill wasn’t sent off.

Cos he plays for Chelsea!!

Apologies – my young son has been on my account... silly boy can't add up.

What sort of father puts the blame for his errors on his son!

I've been saying for weeks that the likes of Southampton, Newcastle, WHU etc....won't be anywhere near the top come May.
The 3rd and 4th spots will be between us, Arsenal and Man Utd. Mark my words.

I agree Colin, especially about Southampton. They are halfway through what was potentially a very difficult run of games, and they have lost 4 out of 5. Today was probably the easiest one of the lot.

Come on, weÂ’re not getting anywhere near 4th, mates. Too much ground to make up (ie too many dropped points to lesser teams) and Arsenal is starting to get healthy again. EL is our magic elixir this season.

Cahill’s dive was embarrassing for an adult. It was a jump, sprawl and roll. Three dives by Chelsea – two yellows.

I've always said the season is like a marathon Rob. You win sod all in December and, IMO, if you're within 12 points of the leading pack by January you've got more than a decent chance of catching them as it only takes 4 wins on the trot.

Bellerin looks the business as well.
Fabulous run in the first half. Inventive play for a 19-year-old.

Despise Giroud but 2 great goals. Welbeck robbed.

Colin, the problem with winning four on the trot and leaving it that late (to qualify) is that you’re relying on the above teams to lose 4 on the trot as well. As much as it is an ask to win 4 in a row, it’s even more to assume someone will lose 4 in a row, esp. at that juncture - although Arsenal tried their hardest last season.

Arsenal, like Man Utd, are good going forward but their defence is weak. They'll get a few hidings this season by the better teams.

Cheeky pen by Cazorla!!

Or they will reinforce during January. Per Mertesacker has been a mug this season. Debuchy is playing CB for crying out loud.

Apart from Chelsea and Man City, everyone else is having a mare of a season, Christopher. It's definitely not beyond us to go on a good run while our nearest rivals continue to stutter.
I'm not saying its going to happen but it's possible.

Cazorla’s been watching Stones...

Of course it’s possible. Hope it does, obviously. Just how many seasons have we seen the dreaded "2 points dropped" bite us in the ass at the end of the season? Everyone drops points, we just seem to do it in more damaging situations (eg, Arsenal this season).

Nobody expects the likes of Arsenal or Man Utd to go on a terrible run. However, the likes of West Ham, Newcastle, Southampton and Swansea are more than capable of losing a few games on the bounce. As I said earlier, we are more than capable of getting 13 points from the next 5 games. Hopefully that would put us on 31 points going into second half of the season.

I was hoping Newcastle would get something out of this game as an Arsenal win was the last on my acca from today's footy which sadly went down due to Barcelona.

Give it two more defeats and those Geordie weapons will be calling for the manager's head again.

Predicting the order of the top 7 in this yea's Prem is nigh-on impossible right now.

Arsenal only have one position to really address (CB).
Manchester is a mess but is about to invest a ton more money (not sure if it’s in January or in the summer).

We seem to have many more holes than these teams, even in positions we’ve recently addressed.

I can't remember so many Evertonians being so pessimistic at this stage of the season for many many years. That's not to say that I think that everything is perfect – it's far from it – but we are not as bad as some seem to think we are... I hope the Blues do go on a winning streak just to get some perspective back among our supporters.

I do have a theory and that theory is because there was no proper blood letting when our previous manager left, all the pent-up frustration has manifested itself against the current regime and everything associated with it. I could be wrong of course – it's just my take on things.

Defending Everton and it's team against criticism from fans of other clubs is comparatively easy, compared to trying to defend our current team against those who seem to have made their minds up as far as Roberto is concerned. Having said all that, if the results continue in the same vein for too many more games, perhaps those who haven't taken to Roberto will have been proved correct.

Colin, I'm not quite sure how come to the conclusion we will be competing with Arsenal and Man Utd for 4th – absolutely no chance. Both sides have much better players than us.

Two things to note: firstly, we WON'T strengthen in January; and secondly, the Europa League begins again in February. I think we have a chance of challenging Spurs and Liverpool for 6th and 7th spots at the very best this season.

I just think fans want to be entertained and to feel like the team is doing everything it can to win. I’m certainly not trying to be negative, just realistic. Our tactics are way off the mark.

I’m personally tired of 5th place every season but finding a lot of enjoyment out of the Europa League, way more than I thought I would. It’s taking a toll on our Premier League campaign but offers something new and exciting.

So who's getting 5th Kunai? Do you really think their players are better than ours? That could be a good new thread, comparing players by position.

Can we stop all this nonsense talk off finishing top 4 – not a chance.

5th to 7th, that should have been, Colin. If we get to the latter stages of the EL then I could see at least one surprise team that are currently in top 6 finishing above us (Southampton or West Ham).

We’ve seen this play out for the past 10 years. It’s not like anyone should be surprised.

Exactly Paul - #38. The proof is in the pudding, we've not got 4th in the last 2-3 seasons with arguably our best squad so what makes people think we're getting 4th this time around? It's not like we've added 4 or 5 top draw players to the side.

We have 18 points now and would need at least 70 to get top 4. Are we really going to get another 52 points? – No way!.

79 points is what it took Arsenal last season. In most other seasons 72 points would have got us 4th unfortunately we wont be getting that points total this year. It likely to be 67 or 68 this year for 4th. I think all the talk of 4th will be abandoned by those fans clinging on to faint hopes by Jan 1st by which then Everton would need to get atleast 40 points from the second half of the season.

Don't bet on it, Kunal, some fans never give up.

4th I say, 4th.

Top 4 was never on this season for me, I said 6-8th with our Euro commitments. I agreed with a Mr P Walling, which is pretty rare

There's plenty of time for us to hit some form, no injuries and some fortunate bounces would also be a help.

I have to agree with the criticism lately though that we need to get the ball moving forward quicker and be more direct. I think the main problem is that they're not looking to find space enough and the player in possession can't find a pass forward.

Also, the refs are giving 'the fancy teams' 12 to 10 points start each season when playing against the likes of us and the rest of the Prem. I don't think it's deliberate bias, it's more subconscious with the pressure they're under.

COYB!

I for one canÂ’t see us flying up the league any time soon. Every performance is as bad a the one previous.

I remember last season, couldnÂ’t wait for the next game, like a kid waiting for Xmas. Now I dread watching us play, weÂ’ve become that bad.

Lucky to get top half at this rate. Let alone top 8.

Paul K. @ 48..Very true mate. We've been playing Premier League bottom 4 stuff this season. Struggling with the system and too many off their game. What lies ahead is anyone's guess but we need to get things together and start playing like a team.

Harold, "too many off their game". This has been an excuse for professional, multi-millionaire sportsmen for years. Probably worth a thread in itself.

Why should anyone, who claims to be so good at his job that he deserves to be paid millions of pounds a year, be able to say : "I had a bad day"?

If a doctor used that excuse he would be sued out of existence. Think of your own jobs, can you get away with being "off form" for even one day, never mind months on end, when you only have to perform for a couple of hours a week?

Ridiculous.

Brian, is your job competitive with only 1 winner or loser? Do you have 40,000 people watching and analysing your every move and giving abuse whenever you make the slightest error?

What's ridiculous is comparing a professional athlete at the top of his game with a standard job that most of us will do.

The fact they get paid millions has bugger all to do with anything. The fact you mention it indicates the real reason you want to have a go at these players. You go try to be a Premier League footballer if you think they have it so easy.

The stick Lukaku got at the start of this season is a good example. The guy is being asked to play carrying a slight injury when we have no decent cover and people say he's shit or not trying or whatever when he can't do what we know he's capable of.

Players at this level perform on fine margins. That last 1% is the difference between creating a chance or finding the net or not.

It will take a phenomenal turnaround for us to even challenge for 4th. My money is on 6th-9th.

I've listed my seat in GT6 on Stubhub for the Stoke game if anyone is looking for a Boxing Day ticket? Under face value as it's Christmas, and Blues are the best people around. Listed as obstructed but has a far better view than most unobstructed ones.

Hope no one minds me posting this, it's with good intentions only.

With so many players coming back now from injury, why can't we go on a winning run?

Hear, hear, Colin. I think you and me are on the same wavelength!

Have you heard the vile shit coming out of Paul Ince on SSN. It's enough to make you puke!!

Any predictions about today's game? 2-2 draw I think. I can see Swansea beating the Spurs 2-1.

No Rob, what's the clown saying?

Every other word was Stevie G this and Stevie G that!! Make you vomit!!

Fuck off, Martyn Tyler, you retarded idiot. That Fellaini challenge is similar to that of an Everton challenge in a derby. What a moron.

Rob, Paul Ince is a top footballing brain. You only have to look to see how well he's advised his son to see that.

Spot on Kieran!

Martin Tyler is the mouthpiece for the Sky top 4. He loves his Mancs, Chavs and RS.

As for Paul Ince, well, words fail me. He's such a lowlife that he's even ruined his son's career just to get his 10% signing-on commission.

How are Villa above us? How???

Was that the Mancs signing a bastardized form of YNWA? I couldn't catch the words...

Something like you'll never work again... sign on sign on.

Odds on for a draw against QPR now that a win takes us above the Redshite.

Sounded as if it included "You'll never lift a cup"??

Moyes must be choking on his paella watching that.

Liverpool are no laughing matter now "The Teeth" has gone.

Fellaini was imperious today playing in his best position breaking up play in front of the back 4. Bit of sympathy for Liverpool but Man Utd were much more dynamic with sharper finishing. De Gea's saves? That's what he's there for...

Great to see the RS having a crap season. But my sneering might as well be into a mirror... We're below them in the league and will only be on the same number of points as them with a win tomorrow.

Time for us to get our act together and start climbing the table. Crisis clubs Newcastle and Villa and the RS are above us. Cold, hard facts, folks.

Once we have beaten QPR on Monday we will be seven points away from 4th place. Things have not been wonderful of late but we are still in with a real chance of CL through that route. Other teams have also been inconsistent. We always do better in the second half of the season.

It's always great to see Redshite lose but the result does us no favours. Manure look to have got their shit together and it looks very unlikely that we will catch them up this season.

Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City and Arsenal look like the sides which will finish top 4. There's a long way to go and plenty of points to play for, but I will be surprised if we finish higer up than any of those 4 teams.

It isn't going to get better until certain players have been put out to pasture and new younger blood has been brought in. If we want to get closer to the top then we need the players that are capable of it. Howard for example is no top 4 keeper and neither are some of our defenders and midfielders.

Yes they are good players and have been great servants the club but they either don't quite have whats needed or through years of accepting the not quite good enough tag tend to lose their bottle when it matters. We need money spent and those that keep saying 㿈-million for Lukaku is a show of money are clearly deluded, especially in this league.

The biggest problem is that Everton fans are easily pleased and that's why the shower of shit are still in charge of the club.

Mark, this season we should've beaten arsenal and we didn't deserve to lose to either Man City (Mariner), Chelsea (keystone cops defending) or Man Utd (Baines pen, De Gea etc..).

It's against the likes of Hull, Leicester and CP that we need to dramatically improve if we are to become a top 4 team.

Suicidal defending by Swansea has cost them.

Dammit!!!!! Ericksen just got the winner. We NEEDED them to get a draw here.

Who is that defender that had 2 terrible turnovers in their own half in the last 30 seconds?? Awful decisions.

We could really do with an Eriksen in our midfield. We don't have anyone of that quality. That's Spurs 3rd victory away from home 2-1 where they have scored in the 90th minute. Why can't Everton do that!! 6 points behind spurs now, tomorrow's game becomes even more significant if we are to stay in touch with Spurs and one or two others. Nothing less that 3 points will do!!

How confident Tony. I honestly donÂ’t think we will win tomorrow. As for players coming back, big deal, they will pick up further injuries or be, like Coleman and Baines and take an age to find form. As for not deserving to lose to Chelsea and Man City, Colin, I must have watched different games because we simply didnÂ’t do enough at Man City to even deserve a draw and Chelsea looked like they would score every time they attacked. I will be happy when we get to 42 points, hopefully in April. Sides have worked us out and without funds in January for a creative midfielder and left winger we will continue to struggle. 4th? Ha!

A lingering problem that we’ve had is finding goals through midfield. Barkley had 6 last year has none so far. McCarthy for whatever reason CAN’T score. Naismith’s injured. Osman had a couple and Mirallas shows Green Shoots but can;t seem to get a consistent run of games

Couple that with very few goals coming from Coleman and it’s no surprise that we look very pedestrian at the moment. Our goals look like hard work a lot of time. Harder than most of the teams above us that score with 1, 2 or 3 passes and then a shot. We need to figure out how to be more incisive in the final third.

Aaahggghhhhh! Hom many times are that shower of jammy gits going to do that?! They really are a shite team and yet they keep getting late goals against the run of play! Have they took the shite's mantle? Sick and tired of the spuds now. Piss off!

And watching it again it was Bartley for Swansea that had 2 criminal give aways within the span of 30 seconds that lost the game for them. "Suicidal" as Colin wrote is spot-on.

Gareth,

42 points?

Man Utd, Arsenal and even Spurs seem to be picking up points more often now despite not playing at their best. We need to follow this lead and put together a good run if we are to stay in touch.

QPR at home looks imminently winnable but it's exactly such games that we have underperformed in so frequently this season. We have been playing exactly the same way for 18 months now and most teams have worked out that, if you press high and watch Baines and Coleman, then we really don't have a lot else.

Sadly, our midfield provides very little in the way of goals and creativity except in Mirallas's case.

Sam, I think after a week's rest, and with more players coming back from injury, we might just come out tomorrow with all guns blazing and batter QPR.

We really need to bury someone this season like we did against Newcastle and Arsenal last season to get the juices running again. One convincing win and the confidence will come back.

Colin,

I certainly hope you are right and we come out all guns blazing, although I fear we will stick with our usual measured approach. I have just heard RM say that it will be a difficult game, which is understandable – he doesn't want to let any complacency creep into the players minds.

But he went on to say that he thought our performances so far had deserved more points... well, for me, the performances against Hull and Spurs were poor. Also, in the West Ham game we were under pressure for long periods in the second half. So I cant agree that the performances deserved more points.

I'm confident we will put on a performance tomorrow. QPR a are shite, and without their only half-decent player (Austin) due to suspension, we will put them away easy.

If we can't keep Bobby Zamora quiet, then I'll be amazed!

I hope you're right, Colin, but it feels like we've been ready to batter someone before and have ended up scraping a draw. Goodison is very far from a fortress at the moment but I agree that confidence breeds results. Equally though, results breed confidence – and that's why ours is so low right now.

A couple of wins and we'll be back on track, Sam.

Gareth, do you think Man City would've scored without the penalty decision? I don't.

As for the Chelsea game, well we killed our chances in the first 5 minutes, didn't we? After that, we matched them and were the better team for large chunks of the game. Courtois and Besic didn't do us any favours did they?

If you've given up on the season (in December!!) then why bother watching us?

Colin (77)

I'm not completely writing off a top 4 finish this early in the season, but I just think we've left ourselves with a mountain to climb. Man Utd have opened up a sizable gap between us and them. Chelsea and Man City will be battling it out for the title. And Arsenal always have the knack of putting a run together that gets them top 4 come end of season.

Who knows though, we thought we'd blown our chances of top 4 at the end of February last season then we went on to win 7 games in a row and put ourselves right back in contention, only for us to screw up against Palace and Southampton.

As for the other games you say we deserved more from this season:

I thought we shot ourselves in the foot against Chelsea too many time by defending atrociously. It was a real low point in the season for our defence.

Its tough to say what might have happened at the Etihad if not for that knob Mariner giving a penalty. Man City would have surely pressed us harder if the match was stuck at 0-0? There was also the worldclass save from Howard in that game that kept it at 1-0.

Arsenal game? Yes schoolboy defending again cost us 2 points.

We were unlucky in the Man Utd game because Baines uncharacteristically missed a penalty and their keeper had an absolute blinder of a game... that save right at the end of the game from Oviedo's shot was unbelievable.

But, I'm always a believer of the league table never lies, we are where we are and like you say Colin, we have to start putting the weeker side to the sword. Starting with QPR tomorrow is a must.

Martin Mason, why would you have a bit of sympathy for Liverpool??? They say one swallow doesn't make a summer, but it looks like one player deffo made a football team!! I only watched the second half, but I agree with you about Fellaini, who was probably the best outfield player on the pitch.

A good draw in Europe tomorrow, should get the crowd in the mood. Let's hope the team can give us something exciting to watch by playing forward and going for goals?

Attended the QPR v Liverpool game at Loftus Road. Funniest song I heard – to the tune of That's Amoré...

When the ball hits your head
And you're in Row Z
That's Zaa-mor-raaa!

Comedy!

Kieran,

QPR's best player is Vargas, imo. Austin is a great poacher. Wish we had Montero of Swansea, he made a defensive play today tracking back that had me green with envy.

FFS Mike! Vargas is a cert to score now!!

Moyes went 1-0 up in his first Derby tonight, it's now 1-1 with 5 mins left, sound familiar?

All to familiar...

Gareth (81). No worries. The season starts tomorrow. Kone - who reminds me in his way of running and general demeanor of Eusebio - is the new secret weapon. Ross is about to start firing. 2015 will be phenomenal.

Based on their play so far this season, I find it absolutely bizarre that we are behind teams like Man Utd, Liverpool, Spurs, Aston bloody Villa, Swansea, Newcastle, and Stoke. All these teams have been worse than vomit, yet we are behind them! Unbelievable!

Roberto needs to crack the whip and get the players performing, otherwise the season will turn out to be very forgettable (at least, the Premier League).

Tony, it was only a little bit of sympathy. They had a couple of chances that, with the normal rub of the green or a decent striker, they would have buried. It is amazing how they have imploded after looking so good at times last season. You can probably pinpoint it to the Chelsea game?

Fellaini was amazing, the tackle and pass forward that made the 3rd goal was brilliant and his all-round play was superb, even his passing. He was always better than United made him look last year.

Ajay, Roberto has many times said he doesn’t believe in the whip. That’s the whole problem. There can’t be one speed, one option, one way forward. All of the great managers had many sides of them that were pulled out when necessary. It’s the lack of acknowledgement that has many fans infuriated/concerned.

It’s a strange one, that. Imagine being a player and you’re 13th in the league and vastly underperforming, yet the manager is praising you effusively?? Must be a bit strange at the moment over there.