Act Now – Remember the Motto

He is very dangerous to our future as Everton

The people who run the club have in general ignored poor runs of results and have mostly adopted an "It'll be alright on the night" attitude, constantly believing that whichever manager is in charge they will eventually get it right, only Howard Kendall has managed to overcome poor results and emerge victorious and that was because he did have the best interests of the club at heart at all times even if many of us couldn't quite see it at the time.

You mention a takeover – but will that ever happen? and if it does there is no guarantee that the potential new owners will be any more ambitious or hands on than the current owners; also they are unlikely to rock the boat too early in their tenure.

Everton FC are at an important cross-roads on all fronts, particularly on the playing side, we have at this moment some of the most gifted players we have seen for a very long time; however, we have one of the least effective teams we have ever had, when it comes to winning football matches and quite a lot of that can be put down to the current manager, but in truth not all of it. For the whole of the Premier League era Everton's win rate hovers around the 36% mark, good enough to maintain it's continued stay in the top division but never enough to challenge at the very highest level.

As it happens, I also believe that Roberto will be unable to stop the flow of goals going into the Everton net as he is incapable of producing the right balance in his team's, much the same way as our previously defensive minded managers were unable to create a goalscoring team for any length of time.

I'm not even sure that a change of manager will result in a change of fortunes on the playing side as the lack of ambition is so deeply engrained in the club that it will take an almighty effort by the directors, manager, players and supporters to reverse it.

We have to find somebody at the club who will make demands of their manager and the team instead of waxing lyrical about what the manager has half-promised.

There will be no change on the managerial front until the end of this season at the earliest, and if there is no sale, possibly not until the Spaniard's contract runs its course; what state the club will be in by that time is anybody's guess. Happy 2016!

What we may think is totally immaterial!

Sorry mate, but you don't spend nearly £30 million on a striker to just get 10th, and Martinez is struggling to even achieve that. Had us bottom half of the league last season, and we're back looking that way this season.

I have no idea where you get the idea that a 10th place finish was the goal, because everyone in the team and management started the season saying we would push for Champions League qualification this season. But it's his complete failure to organize the defensive side of the game that sees us failing this season, and his unwillingness to do anything about our poor goalkeeper.

Healthy and Happy New Year to all Blues worldwide. Whatever our preferred route, let's have something to cheer about!

My support does not depend on success but it does depend on our striving for it - and every Evertonian should feel the same, surely?

All the excuses are amazing, the one I liked best was that we are only complaining because Roberto has raised our collective expectations above what is achievable.

I have one wish for the new year Roberto to either shape up or ship out.

To all fellow ToffeeWebbers, a Happy New Year.

I think however, you are 12 months too late asking for him to be removed.

The writing was on the wall last season and you are quite right to be looking down the table because that is the only way we are heading.

I hope before the end of the season we get the odd win, which on here will no doubt be greeted as another Oxford moment, however, I feel we will have more unhappy days ahead than happy.

You are totally correct regarding how the neutrals view us. I cannot understand how any Evertonian can be happy with the open amateurish football we are presently playing. To be perfectly honest I find it completely embarrassing that so called professionals can be so naïve, whether playing or managing.

I have been supporting them quite a few more years than you and though I have been angry – especially in the Walker days – I have never been embarrassed to be a Blue. This is what this manager has brought me too.

On the other hand, that doesn't prevent the manager being insentivised to achieve any higher placing the Board may aspire to.

The veracity of the above will be shown if we finish below 10th and Roberto keeps his job but, of course, his first season fifth will be factored into any decision on his continuing in post.

All in all, I'm inclined to bet on his completing his contract if BK's stewardship continues.

I think there is a risk with the fixtures ahead and the apparent frustration/tension among the players that we start to stutter in a rather more worrying way. Even then, though, you are probably right that our comatose and evasive Board will do nothing.

These are serious days indeed for our club. I am hoping for a complete clear out of Board and manager asap. I do wonder, as others have, whether the appointment of Dr Vint is a sign of coming changes, but I am clutching at any straw at the moment.

Besides, if this takeover talk is legit, it's the money, not what's happening on the pitch, that is front and center for our incumbents.

Four youths constantly talked about in the Press; Stones mostly for some strange reason. He has to be the softest CB in the EPL.

I'm all in on "Roberto is not the guy." All in. But, he's not getting fired as long as we have the same owners. Not happening.

This is probably the only reason why BK hasn't ordered the taxi yet. I just hope he doesn't leave it too late and the team disintegrates next summer.

This is the result of hiring a proven loser who is clearly out of his depth, a bullshitter of the highest waters.

You just could not make it up, but you can with a manager like Martinez.

• We are competing in a League that's completely different than 25-30yrs ago;
• We were 7th favs in betting when the season started;
• We have not won a trophy in 20yrs!
• In the last 5yrs we are 17th in a table of 20 of spending on players!
• The team now wouldn't exist if Martinez wasn't manager.
• If we go more defensive, we won't score as many goals (only 2 teams have scored more) that is unless we improve the forwards in general to compensate. (I'm not saying its a bad idea to rein in the defenders more by the way, I can agree with that.)
• We are 4 points off 6th place, there's half a season to go.

The Prem's a money race and we are not in it, the usual suspects will fill the top 4 places come the end of the season. Now if you want to pin our shortcomings all onto Martinez, carry on, but I think you'll find that it will take far more than a change of manager.

The man has a history of his sides conceding goals like a sieve and making limp excuses and promising jam tomorrow.

In a recent poll, 74% of supporters were totally dissatisfied with him and 22% thought he was doing an average job...

Now supporters do have varying opinions and do sway with the wind at times but there is now a groundswell of opinion against RM which I fear will translate to the players feeling the brunt of it and then we are heading one way and it's not good/

If you find traces of a cancer, you are best to remove it at the earliest opportunity.

Very well made point and difficult to argue in the aftermath of the Stoke debarcle.

Despite my frustration I'm with Peter (3rd post). Let's see where we are in May. And that's me being consistent with what I've said on here previously.

Would you have sacked Howard Kendall in December 1983?

This season we have dropped a large number of points because we are simply disorganised. We should be either in the top 4 or comfortably challenging for it. Chelsea have been hopeless, United are very ordinary, ditto Liverpool. Even City and Arsenal have been erratic.

If mediocrity is decreed as inevitable then it is little wonder that we achieve it and are instinctively in dread of doing any better. That has been the loser's mindset which has so dogged Everton when it matters. What a miserable, pessimistic charter it is.

Re Martinez, I agree with Peter, let's wait until May and see where we are. If we are nowhere near the top 6 then we should get rid, and get Frank de Boer in. He has been talking this week about wanting a new challenge and he is open to a move to the Premier League. He apparently will decide on his future in March according to reports. He has been linked with the Swansea job.

That's if our inconsistent form continues; however, we are still in the League Cup semis, and who knows, we could win that and suddenly RM would have completed a turnaround of Howard Kendall's 1983-84 proportions.

Ditto.

So typical of EFC to miss an opportunity like the 15/16 season by thinking and acting small.

And, sadly, those expectation have infected the mindset of some of the fans.

New Year's Resolution - kick mediocrity out of EFC.

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.

I was gutted losing to Stoke but we did have a go and perhaps under a different manager we would have drawn against Newcastle and Stoke. You can't argue we had a go against Bournemouth, Norwich and Palace - you can say our defending for the goals we conceded were shocking.

Our defending on corners, set pieces, our general shape susceptible to be split apart on the counter by just one or two balls is not very good to put it mildly. However our attacking play by those screaming about the manager's head is overlooked as too is the fact we have a very young back four (including Argentinian who only joined about 4 months ago) and so are obviously going to make mistakes.

No problem criticising Martinez, Howard, the defence, substitutions whatever but the worst manager we've ever had, never have I ever in my life been so embarrassed to be an Evertonian is in my opinion, ridiculous.

I'm not pleased with results but generally, yes, I have been happy with performances and believe we're playing a lot better than last season with loads still to play for this and that's why I will judge the season in May.

We've no Europa League.

We've had a decent pre-season, with no World Cup hangover.

After the summer window.

After the first 10 games... have you seen who we're playing, bit hard them.

After the second 10 games... have you seen who we're playing, easier games them.

After Christmas...

After January...

After the Semis...

After Pancake Tuesday...

After Vasant Panchami...

After Easter...

All just reasons to put it off and hope it comes good.

It won't.

Yeah but we don't sack managers do we? especially just before a League Cup Semi... [Mr Bingham knows different.]

To top it off, after just one season, he hands out a new 3-year contract. I am convinced Kenwright is demented; I hope he sells asap.

Dream on... we will be stuck with the clowns, happy to just survive.

Martinez has got the safest job in the game and we are still in both cup competitions, although I personally believe Man City will comfortably beat us over two legs. We just don't seem to have any belief when it comes to these games...

Although I'd love to see him gone, realistically it's not going to happen; with an in-form Spurs side and a tricky run of games to come, I fear it'll get worse before it gets better.

I'd actually be delighted if all that was down to the manager – so easy to fix!

Anyway, he's not going anywhere until the end of the season – in that respect, it is in his own hands. There is no defending him if we haven't competed for anything.

Thanks to the submitter for the article – but it is yet another broadside at Martinez without an alternative – who are we supposed to get in who will fix these problems? Forget the 'money is no object' appointments, what are you left with?

There are about 5000 names on this list of unemployed coaches / managers at any given time. Let's for arguments sake say that 99,5% of them are crap, and wouldn't make any difference. That would leave at the very minimum around 50 decent ones..... Disregard the Mourinhos etc, and it would still leave a healthy list...... Surely?

http://www.transfermarkt.com/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistik

The excuses made for this manager are amazing and I can't for the life of me work out why so many fans won't criticise him. It seems a lot of people have been hypnotised and fallen for his Spanish charm and nonsensical ramblings.

It makes me laugh when the same people would hammer the previous manager for 'only' finishing 6th or not winning the league. Why does RM avoid all that and get handed a free pass to continue his dangerous experiment with our club? Who knows...

As we are at the halfway point in the season with 57 points left to play for, I have decided to put all the angst of recent games behind me and concentrate on what happens from now rather than what should have happened before.

I'm looking for a realistic return of 38 points from the games remaining – which would see us get to a very respectable 64 by season's end. Probably only enough to get 6th place but very respectable for all that.

Some will hate me for saying it but the season starts now. No further target amendments allowed!

What an informative site!

Thanks for the link, added to my bookmarks.

There must be some mistake!!!

Danny (#21): No, I didn't want Howard Kendall sacked in December 1983. EFC were in a weak position then. And Kendall was a manager with a track record of success, not failure. We held our nerve, quite rightly.

Derek (#26): My points precisely. Thank you.

John (#31): I accept that I didn't name potential successors. I'm just a season ticket holder without any any inside knowledge or connections. But if I was part of the club's hierarchy the search for new manager would be a work in progress, and I would work from the standpoint that we are Everton, not Stoke not Southampton, not Newcastle, and so on. We are a top club in the most financially rewarding football environment on earth. We have several top class players. A manager with strength, know-how and a winning mentality should not be pipe-dream. In life it's unusual to reach great heights when you set the bar low. Let's hope the board, the current and the future one, will see it this way.

I used that as an example of why I personally don't think there is a need to pull the trigger and change manager right now. We are in a stronger position now so if we held our nerve then should we not more so now?

Derek is right, the "plenty of time / lots to play for" view that the likes of me keep rolling out will run out of time if we don't address our flaws but I just don't think we're at that point right now and certainly not in manager sacking space.

All opinion based clearly.

Here's hoping (let's be honest, as fans that's all we ever can do!) that we turn it around on Sunday. Since when did Everton do things the easy way anyway!

Anyway, we are as near top six as bottom six, and given the mega money per finishing place, we have plenty to play for!

ps: I was tempted to say we are as likely to see the manager sacked as he is of dropping Howard. Hey, I just said it!

I would gladly buy a ticket and not turn up if it would help change the dynamics of our club, Norman. I was always a Roberto fan until that Stoke game; now, I want rid of him. Why is it a lot to ask if you want him to go and by protesting would help that process?

If there are more capitulations like we've seen recently, I'm sure the crowd will turn on Roberto. They did last season.

A few thousand cushions raining down on the pitch made people sit up and take notice.

Very tiresome, Raymond; you must be a spin doctor with all those carefully chosen facts. Next you will be telling us your messiah should be made Manager of the Year!

I have one simple fact for you: not one team Martinez has managed has had a competent defence... not one.

All that I want is for Everton FC to do everything on and off the pitch to compete, we haven't even been able to be considered heroic failures in recent times.

I don't think anyone else could have attracted this group of players together. Martinez deserves to work with this team for another season. If Everton are not top of the league by then we can get Guardiola and you will all be happy.

Roberto has had long enough in the Premier League to show us what he can do; he's an experienced manager. He inherited a strong side and has totally destroyed it.

We all know BK isn't going to pull the trigger, as you put it before then. But a bolder chairman may well have done and deservedly so. As for who is replacement might be, you tell me?

If we go on a long run of winless games what's the alternative, Roberto is already in the middle of a bad run, similar to last season, and it could get a lot worse.

Defending is our weakness so why try to rely on it when it is clear our players, defenders, mids and forwards included, have no clue what to do? Wouldn't it have been a debacle if he had done this and Stoke scored two or three goals? People would have been saying we should have continued to press forward on the offense.

RM won't get fired and probably shouldn't be. Right now, Everton are not in danger of relegation. Everton play entertaining football more often than not. Everton are on schedule for 52 points and sit currently more than halfway to safety at the midpoint of the season. The TV money is ungodly even for 6th-11th. Plus 7th-10th is still the top half of the league and no Europa League expenses or qualifying or pool play away games. RM ticks all the boxes for the Board and the Chairman, so the manager is not going to get fired.

Finally, I reiterate that I am not a Martinez fan and never will be, lest anyone think that based upon the post, I am supporting him or his tactics personally.

You really can't see why it's a debacle? Let me try to break it down for you. In the previous home game we gave up 3 goals, very softly. Then against Stoke, a side who had scored something like 6 goals away from home all season, the team managed by Martinez in his third year proceeded to give up FOUR goals at Goodison.

It's a debacle because in his three seasons here, our defense has went from among the best to the worst, and it's continuing to get worse. It's a debacle because he continues with Kine out on the left wing despite the players offering absolutely nothing, despite the manager's latest garbage in the Echi trying to say he's partially responsible for Lukaku's form but not being able to actually say how. He doesn't provide assists, doesn't provide a goal threat. But Martinez kept him in there despite it being obvious to all watching and the commentators that we needed to get ahold of he game in the midfield.

It's a debacle because we are halfway through his third season and it summed up perfectly all his failings. Doesn't know how to organize a defense in all his years in the league, has no idea how to shut up shop in a match, and has no idea how to make substitutions to alter the match.

It's a debacle because we still can't win at home even when we score three against a mid table opponent.

What are you rambling on about us not being in relegation trouble and being on pace for 52 points. That's garbage, that's not what we should expect. We should be expecting and demanding a team that is challenging at the top of the table every season and demanding European football. But apparently mediocrity is good enough for some Evertonians, and that is very very sad.

Even so, Martinez is responsible for the way we play and right now it's obviously not good enough. Okay, he lost his captain and James McCarthy but something is lacking and it's up to him to find it. The large number of draws doesn't make sense. We're not West Brom. I can only conclude that goals may have been conceded but many chances have been missed.

Things get even more intriguing from March onwards. A couple of years ago somebody asked Ossie and Jags if there was a time when their legs started to feel the strain. Felt heavy or tired. They both agreed that it began to kick in around the 25 game mark. Something I found most interesting.

Famous coach Bielsa drives his players like a mad mule train driver. His all action teams have a great success rate............for 6 months. 24 weeks. Among other insults, people call him Mr 6 months.

Plenty of Premier League coaches follow his methods. Pochettino has even played under him. I wonder how many teams will start to flag after the 24 week mark? Hmm.

We have been battering teams during games and just not doing enough to win them. Hopefully Martinez hits his usual winning streak and we get a decent second half to the season.

Is this the way forward? Surely it's time get worried about this manager. He is far from being the best option, indeed he could be the worst of all options if his previous record with Wigan is anything to go by.

Lukaku is putting a very nice gloss on some deep problems that will only end in trouble.

I'm not a fan of these 'all-action' coaches. Their teams give the illusion of being 'busy' without achieving much, they often flatter to deceive and they have no longevity. You need a big squad to cope with the injuries and burnout.

I think it was Harold who brought up the 'half a season syndrome' that afflicts so many teams in the Prem and, perhaps, much further afield. And it is for that very reason that I am letting Roberto off the hook for a disappointing 'first half' (he will be massively relieved to hear that !!) but expect great things of him and the boys starting tomorrow.

After two and a half years, the Catalan can have few excuses for not having assembled and drilled HIS team and, as previously stated I'm looking for close to 38 points from the games remaining. I suggest BK should be setting such a target whether or not he is more concerned with takeovers at the moment.

What's done is done - it's games 20-38 which should decide our manager's future.

With al due respect, several have pointed out with actual stats that actually even under Moyes, we conceded goals. We were nowhere near the league's stingiest defense. I am a Moyes supporter but can recall games where points were shipped late on.

The point was that no-one other than Toffee supporters sees this as a problem with Everton. The play is attractive and offensively oriented for the most part. Over here, we love lots of points or runs in our football, soccer, basketball, and even baseball games. The club is considered mid-table with mid-table aspirations. Seems to me that the last 20-plus years have supported this view... right? Over here, Everton is a "little" club when compared to Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Tottenham.

My point about being on the way to 52 points based on the first 19 games is that the current Board is not going to change the manager. Everton will finish top ten and that will ensure a lot of TV money. Plus, perhaps the young defenders will get the mistakes out of the way and next season play better, which then should mean additional points. So tell me, why would RM get fired? And use real facts, please, instead of a thinly disguised opinion.

He pulled down our expectations, saying we should be grateful for having him; the other way round, I think... and I have been going over 40 years. In Moyes's tenure, not one sports journalist said Everton play good football. At least Roberto has given people like you your voice back after seeing what can be achieved in his first season. We need our international defenders to start defending.