In Support of David Moyes

Long before season's end it was obvious to all who were not complete idiots that Martinez had 'lost' the crowd and the players. In fact I would say the writing was on the wall for Roberto a year earlier. A potential successor could havebeen quietly lined up long ago.

David Moyes has steadfastly refused other managerial opportunities including one at his beloved Celtic.

Fans have nominated a long list of potential candidates for the job at Everton yet one by one each has for various reasons been ruled out. Now we hear that an early favourite has not even been approached.

It is almost embarrassing how FDB is throwing himself at Everton. With the number of other options getting less by the day and him not even on our contact list it looks more and more that the spectre of Moyes is looming large.

You would have thought that is Moyes's bridges well and truly burned.

But what can we do if Bill goes against the wishes of the majority of the fans; in other words, ignoring the very heart of the club.

We still matter don't we? The fans, even with the huge amount of cash coming in to all the clubs they still need supporters, don't they?
So what is the answer to our chairman actually not listening to us? Do we have to start venting our anger all over again and haven't we had enough of that for the last two seasons? I really haven't got the heart for another rant and rave, have you?

Irrespective of his move to United I think it was time to part company for the best interests of both parties at that time. It had all gone a bit stale. It was clear he was waiting to see what offers he may get and who could blame him for taking the one given to him with Sir Alex's blessing??

The way he went about that was certainly more for Man Utd's share price than in Everton's best interest. His farewell was a bit embarrassing and OTT seeing as after 11 years he hadn't actually won anything and the only time he came close he bottled it.

Are we ready to give him a 2nd chance?? No thank you. It's nothing personal, David, but I just think we need someone better than you.

Boo hoo! Stop the whining man. You cry about Moyes running his contract down but are probably one who is blasting Lukaku for not wanting to stay and honor his and making public comments with three years left on his contract. Moyes didn't have any obligation beyond finishing the contract, which he did FFS. Wow, guess he is the first person ever to go looking for a job while he currently was employed (oh wait Pep Guardiola 2X).

He made an offer which was rejected. Get over it. His deal for Fellaini benefitted the club. BTW, most managers raid their old clubs for one or two players don't they? Wonder how many Bayern players will end up at Citeh?

As for his being fired, so was his successor at OT so maybe the club was in worse shape than imagined, kept Giggs the rat, and didn't give DM enough time and money to succeed. As for La Real, they finished 9th with his players so again maybe more time was needed.

Honestly, you don't mention his record, his player acquisitions, or his tactics while at Everton as reasons not to want him back. You just catalogue mostly petty little complaints about the way he treated Everton poorly, in your opinion. He was a good manager for Everton, which is why he is being considered.

I could care less what he did or didn't do elsewhere, as I know what he did here on a limited budget with a Board and Chairman with limited ambitions. If and only if we cannot get any of our first set of choices and have to settle for Moyes, I can live with it for a few more seasons (2-3 maximum) knowing what he will and can do (and maybe he will surprise us) until Everton becomes attractive enough to get the managers currently beyond our grasp.

Personally I don't think we need to start again and don't want him near the club. If it falls apart again though you could definitely make a case for him. I couldn't care less about his behaviour in pursuing players - he was representing the club that employed him. Just as he did when he had our badge on his jacket.

I still can't understand him not going to Villa. That job was perfect for him. There's only one reason I can think of why he wouldn't take the job... uh oh.

If steadying the ship is the criteria, Pellegrini and FdB would fit that bill and they are rated much higher. It's not like Moyes will work for free.

If familiarity is the criteria, then hiring Moyes will strand us where we are. We'll move up a bit, but the team structure and coaching will remain the same.

We're hoping for change and Moshiri's name along linked us to names many wouldn't dare contemplate, or simply unheard of gems from afar. Let's look forward and not backwards, definitely not to Moyes, however much he has done for us, he's moved on, so have we, and obviously, he wreaked a lot of goodwill while at United.

I accept he had a duty to his new club when he came back for Baines and Fellaini, but the manner in which he did it was sickening, he used inside knowledge to exploit our less than healthy financial situation. His comments regarding "holding back the players careers" will not be forgiven by Evertonians - at least not this one. He accepted that wonderful (and not really deserved ) send off, knowing full well what he intended to do.

In fairness to Moyes he did do a decent job when he arrived, qualifying for CL football with the players he had was a truly remarkable achievement, but somewhere along the line he seemed to lose his nerve,or desire, Perhaps it was the fact that he new premiership survival was enough for Kenwright and top six was dreamland for him.

Between Kenwright and Moyes we became the Uriah Heep of the premiership, always very humble and grateful to be here . .never quite worthy to go near the diners at the top table.

No, just No. That partnership should never be allowed again - not at Everton anyway. we have gotten rid of one and we need to focus on getting rid of the other.

I noticed Lukaku recently spoke about sitting down with Mr Moshiri, Not Kenwright - thank fuck - . I'm hoping the next manager will have to do the same. The majority shareholder must take control and ensure he does not entrust his promised war chest to the guy who once paid 28m for Marouane Fellaini . a fortune squandered by a man who had spent years bleating about not having any money.

By the way, given we were supposedly one of the minnows of Europe, he was happy to be in the top 12 highest paid managers for the latter half of his tenure.

There's no way they'll reappoint him. Kenwright fractured the fanbase with the foolish DK debacle. Those splits have remained since. He's since made gobs of money on his shareholding, and whilst I hope his health has improved, the sooner he is out of this club the better it will be for this club.

There must be 'A Goldilocks Option' out there - Not too much Moyes, not too much Martinez - but just right.

Moyes and Martinez; All their teams / ethos / Philosophy (nice to not have that rammed down our throats on a weekly basis)required was a 'tweak'

I thought you didn't read ToffeeWeb.

Rolling over and playing dead at every Sky 4 ground, season after season.

Bottling big games. Falling out of Champions League qualifications and the Europa League equivalents like a stone.

Countless matches with ZERO shots on target.

Knives to gunfights? He was given a Kalashnikov at Man U and was puzzled when it wouldn't stab people.

If you want a repeat of all that then I don't know why you bother getting out of bed every morning.

Everton are doing their due diligence.

Lets try and get it right for once.

If it takes a month so what we have fitness coaches for pre season.

We have Unsy and Royle as caretakers.

Put yis feet up and relax for a while.

For the reasons Mick, and Darren, mentioned, I suspect me and Sandra, won't be the only ones who wouldn't step back inside Goodison, if this deceitful bastard, was to be given the job.

Darren, I was made up with the £28 Million, Moyes spent on Fellaini, it was the way he spent the Lescott money, which convinced me he was never going to be a top manager.

Champion's League................Champion's league qualifiers.

1 up front chasing long balls down the channels.

Regulation 78th minute subs regardless of the score.

First shot on target after 80 minutes.

Unable to get his team up for big games or the Derby.

Years of telling us we couldn't achieve anything because of the financial disparity with other teams.

Failure at his last 2 jobs.

Pass.

As for whoever wrote this.......... I'd better keep my counsel.

Don't let him near the place.

I received my renewal papers yesterday......awaiting news that anyone other than Moyes has been appointed, before I renew.

Won't happen. Simply compare the list of potential managers touted around this time to those of three years ago. Should tell you who's really calling the shots!

Just a list of 4 managers I would like to see before we think of bringing Moyes back.

He made some good signings, but out of 70-odd players he signed, you would surely expect that, wouldn't you? For every good signing, there was a bad one to even that argument out.

There is no doubt he was hamstrung by the rotten board in place at the time, but would more money really have changed his approach at the likes of Man Utd or Chelsea? I don't think it would have personally. We've been potless for 22 years this season, half of that time we had Ginge at the helm. Some people seem to remember him as a trophy winning machine, not the guy who firmly placed a glass ceiling on any ambition the club used to have along with the lying chairman. He was denied funds for transfers and we had to sell to buy, but we still used to pay around the 8th highest wage in the Premier League and broke our transfer record a few times whilst he was here.

He was genuinely disliked by many members of staff, he was one of the highest paid managers in Europe and all for an average finish of 7th over his time with us.

I don't know what it is with Everton & it's fanbase, but no other club seems to want ex-players and ex-managers involved like we seem to. It's time to move on, if we did go back to Moyes, I'm done. It would basically say to me mid-table security is what we are aiming for.

He is a self promoting fraud who had built up a reputation on the back of a club who gave him total control. He has been badly exposed in his last two jobs and he is well aware his reputation cannot afford another sacking. So what does he want? He wants to come to a club with no expectation and get us challenging for 6th again, with no chance of the sack.

I only hope the new owner has more ambition than that.

Our next appointment is a statement of intent and if the whole fiasco thus far is anything to go by, our enthusiasm with the new majority shareholder is sadly misplaced.

It has been obvious for months that Martinez was a dead man walking yet he was allowed to lead us to Wembley after the derby 'performance' to rank amongst the worst ever, and when he was eventually given the bullet, we still hadn't even considered a replacement of any description.

Meanwhile, over in Manchester, since Bobby got the boot, they have won the FA Cup, sacked the manager who won the FA cup, interviewed and unveiled arguably the biggest manager in world football and set about enlisting players.

At Everton, we are interviewing a manager who succeeded in making us the best of the reset on a meagre budget. The fact is that even the teams coming up don't have to make do with a meagre budget anymore as the game is awash with money so Moyes's unique selling point is no longer relevant in today's Premier League.

He is part of our history in name only, he can't be attributed to any from of success so what exactly would he bring to the role? Stability? The teams he used to beat, the Stokes and the West Hams now spend £20m on midfielders.

It's a No from me.

I'm pretty sure this is not going to happen, but if it did, would be a massive backward step. "Do not revisit the scene of the crime" is a good adage and even more so in this case.

We need a fresh face, a 'name' and a winner or potential winner. Moyes is in so many ways, yesterday's man.

So here's mine (in order of preference):

Kidman (Nicole): May have once seen a football match, Feisty Australian in the manner of much adored countryman Tim Cahill, wonderful arse, red hair.

Langford (Bonnie): Utterly clueless about what exactly a "football" is, great footwork, nice arse, red hair.

Krankie (Jimmie, Fandabidozie!!): Scottish transvestite, irritating shit, not a scooby aboot fitba, swerve the arse question, wig.

Moyes (David, Susan, Elizabeth): Scottish, utterly clueless about what attacking is, complete arsehole, red hair. (NB: Has an allergy to silver.)

I don't want him back not because of any of that. I don't want him back because we need a fresh approach. We need fresh ideas and a way of playing that will get us right to the top. Yeah, like Leicester. Play without fear. Don't look for the draw first.

I will never forget the way we played against the RS in that semi. Or the way we played against Wigan in the quarters. Or getting battered 4-nil against the RS. Or 5-1 against Bucharest. Or being the Yesman to Bill and being happy with just Marcus Bent in a whole window.

I will not allow myself to ever watch an Everton team managed by that guy.

No other words need be uttered. None.

We all seem to have short memories, the football we played 2012-13 under Moyes was largely very good to watch and we finished 6th that season.

As much as Moyes isn't my first choice, he'd get the defence organised, sort out set pieces, get the team fit and competitive. I wouldn't say it's a disaster to have him back.

Once we'd get the indifferent start and had relinquished any realistic hopes of a Champions League position (initial pressure now off) he'd then get his head clear and put together a good run that would put us there or there about for a Europa League spot.

If somehow he got close to a top 4 spot he'd freeze again under the pressure. Just look at our abysmal set of results in the run in to our eventual CL qualification in 2005 – winning only 2 and losing 4 of the 7 games prior to ultimately falling over the line with the win against Newcastle.

This buckling under pressure and adopting ultra risk averse tactics in key games was also exemplified in derby games and in most crucial domestic and European cup games.

And there's not much evidence to suggest he has recognised the error of his ways since leaving Everton. Hence his quick exits from Manchester and Spain.

Moyes back to Everton? No way. It would indicate firmly that we'd all given up.

I agree that his behaviour during his long goodbye and afterwards was reprehensible but it was his style of football and his lousy negative drip feed of 'plucky little Everton', 'know our place', expectations-lowering 'punching above our weight' propaganda that numbed my mind and depressed my spirits.

This was actually not propaganda, he actually came to believe it. This was his mindset. He was doing us a favour.

When he was a fresh new manager, it was different and he was a wind of change after the foetid years of Walter's staleness, but after a few years it became déjàvu all over again and drab percentage football, crap tactics and drip drip drip of negativity as he came to believe his own publicity.

He was a paint by numbers Prozone clone alongside Allardyce indulged by a complacent gobshite chairman who overpaid him and never challenged him.

I have been going to Goodison since 1954 so I have seen the good the bad and the Mike Walker, Billy Bingham and Ian Buchan, but I hope and pray that the times they are a changing now, hopefully for the better.

This man will never manage Everton again and, once retired, managing Everton will be seen as the pinnacle of his bang-average career.

1 – 'Moyes reduced our expectations' – Some people seem to give more value to press conferences than the match. Knife to gun fight etc, but budgets are a driving force in football, and excusing Leicester this last season, the correlation between them and league position is undeniable, yet skint Everton were a continually breaking the mould. Guaranteed top 7 and outside bet at top 4. What were people's expectations?

2 – 'Moyes went stale in his last three seasons' – the club operated a strict sell to buy policy and like the Arteta money, he didn't see all of it.

Cash transfers from in last six windows from Summer '10 to Jan '13.

Silva 𧺬k, Gueye 𨀼k, Vellios 𧶲k, Green 𧷤k, Kennedy 𧶲k, Gibson ٠m, Jelavic ٣m, Pienaar ٢.5, Mirallas ٤m, Oviedo ٟ.2, Stones 𧺬k.

Approx 㿂m

Out: Rodwell 㾸m, Yobo ٠m, Pienaar ٠m, Cahill free, Bilyaletidinov ٤m, Arteta 㾶, Yakubu ٟ.5, Saha nominal

㿍.5m

Obviously not all who left were for money, but the influence lost was invaluable and not made up in the free transfer market in Stracq, McFadden, Hitz and Drenthe etc.

Moyes didn't go stale, the budget became tighter and tighter. We finished 7th 7th and 6th.

3. One of the highest paid managers in Europe – And? The Premier League is the richest league by a mile, so... what's your point? Keeping a club with relegation budgets in the top 7 he was worth his weight in gold. Anyone outside Man Utd, City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs were looking over their shoulders at the start of each campaign. We didn't have to, and qualified regularly for Europe, so he was paid accordingly.

4, No wins away against the 'big 4'. True. But winning against clubs who actually finished top 4 did happen.

Obviously people didn't like some of the football. But it was only some. Most f it was fine, and some of it was superb. I don't get caught up in the soap opera that surrounds football and if people want to do the 'he said this at Everton, he said that at Utd', you go for it.

Argue if he is a good manager or not, I don't care if he isn't. But when a manager gets the right club it just comes together and works, and that is what happened when he was here.

There are many better managers. But any appointment would be a gamble. But Moyes's return would guarantee doing what he did yet again, only this time with a budget. If he had that when he was here last time things would have been... meeting expectations.

This has the Kenwright romantic factor written all over it. Watch this space; if you like it or not, it's about to happen.

Nick @52
Well it's about bloody time that you stopped taking the fucking delusion pills.
1) YES ! YES he bloody well did !
2) True, BUT He actually went stale after his first 3 seasons.
3) True. However, he was PAID but never ever earned a brass button after season 3.
4 True. So there really is no "But". Everything else is utter BULLSHIT !

Now stop taking the delusion pills.
Because you and your ilk are the malaise of mediocrity peddling the poisonous moyseian thinking which infests our great club.

Allow me to dispel your delusions:
A young Colin Harvey eager to progress talks with his team mates, expressing his burning desire to secure his first team place.
Following training at Bellefield he shares this with his older, established pro's.

They decide to set up the talented lad, but also teach him a lesson. "Go tell the Gaffer what you think. Mr Catterick respects ambition and honesty. Tell him Colin !".

So, following training the next day, bright eyed young Harvey strides into Cattericks office, "Can I have a word please boss ?".
"Step in Colin, what's on your mind son ?"
"Boss, I've had a couple of games in the first team now, I think I'm ready for a regular place in the first team, I'd love that".
"Do you son ? wait just a minute......."
(Catterick reaches around behind his desk and selects the current edition of "Rothmans Football Year Book"),
Catterick slings the book at Eager eyed Harvey,
"There you go son ! That has ALL the details of 91 other clubs. THIS IS Everton !"

How can any self-respecting bluenose want or even contemplate Dour Davie anywhere near the place, especially after his charmless and deceitful exit??

Is there a massive “men in black” type memory wiper thingy at Goodison, that I must have missed being zapped by!?

The man is a proven liar ("Man Utd didn't contact me and I didn't speak to Uncle Alex before giving two fingers to Everton, I promise!" blah blah blah), never mind being a tactical shithouse and useless coach/manager to boot – we MUST aim our sites much higher than this pleb.

He's only mentioned as a possible manager for us, as he is out of work and is on the sniff looking for a cushy number like he used to have here. It wouldn't surprise me if he is on at all his old media contacts calling in favours so his own agenda is continually pushed – the snake doesn't give two fucks about Everton!

As others have rightly said, the man is a fraud and has been found out at his two previous clubs, so Ginger is looking for a safe, risk free way back into the money pit of the Premier League.

Sorry Davie, got some news for you lad, this club isn't the club you left, and it seems that the fans (and hopefully the board now with Moshiri getting stuck in) are finally shaking off the shackles you left behind on our aspirations.

Jesus, it's like your mate reminiscing about his ex, saying how much he misses her and how good it was then.

No, Sorry mate, it was shite!

Your ex bird is a horrible, shady, boring, ginger cow, who was about as much fun in the bedroom as Ebola; she was shagging one of your work colleagues behind your back and you stayed with her for about 8 years too long, being bored shitless near the end, so stop fucking going on about her and move on!

We never started a season under Moyes with the intention of winning the league. Moyes always stated that his target was to reach 40 points.

That aside I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone would want him back. What he did leading to his leaving, and following his leaving, is inexcusable in my book.

Okay he did what he was initially hired to do which was bring stability and avoid the dalliances with relegation, but then he accepted that mediocrity was our place and intentionally tried to limit our expectations to accept that.

My thoughts on why some people want him back are that they are what could be referred to as "panic merchants."

It's a case of "Oooh bring back Moyes at least we know what we'll get." If he were to come back we'd be a laughing stock.

I'm glad to say that that's not going to be the case. He isn't coming back!

The saving grace is Moshiri.

I'm of the opinion that had Moshiri not appeared, Martinez would have been given another season by Blue Bill. It was Moshiri who saw past the spin and bluster and had RM sacked.

Consequently, whilst lazy journos might make the link and whilst some fellow Evertonians might have suffered severe memory loss, I do not believe Moshiri wants anyone other than "his own man" in charge. That man is surely not the Ginger tube......

He was 'right for his time' but both our club and the game have moved on and whilst getting back to be regularly 6th would be an improvement, our new circumstances mean that ambition should be higher than that.

An altogether NEW man would bring new hope and unite the fanbase whilst Moyes's return would not only divide it but demonstrate that Kenwright is still very much in charge.

So sorry, Davey, but no thanks!

No No No to his return.

It didn't exactly work when we brought HK back did it? And he was a million times better manager than that serial loser.

He quite patronising said when he was after Baines and Fellaini he would have never stood in their way if he was still Everton manager. So does that mean if he came back he'd be quite happy to constantly ship out our best players if a top 4/5 club come in for them?

He burnt his bridges years ago. Let him go and manage Tranmere or someone.

DM was the right guy, at the right time (14 years ago), these are different times and we don't have to "settle" for something less than the best, or close to. I don't want to watch a team that can defend well but can't attack. I don't want to watch a team that can attack but can't defend. I want solid defending and exciting attack. Fuck, if Leicester can do it.........

Get a DoF in, so the infrastructure of development is in "safe" long term hands, and then take a punt on an exciting manager. If he doesn't work out, get another one. Please, no more talk of DM.

This is your opinion but....

You say;
There are many better managers. But any appointment would be a gamble. But Moyes' return would guarantee doing what he did yet again, only this time with a budget. If he had that when he was here last time things would have been... meeting expectations.

guarantee what he did....

In 11 seasons he won nothing. Don't state budgets as the reason for that. It is actually a style of play. Moyes style of play is well suited to finish between 4th & 10th. It is a percentage game. Always keep everyone back when defending a corner! Really?? Always keep 2 players back when we were attacking a corner.
No balls. And that's exactly why he can never be a success at the top level. If you're Norwich and you don't want to be relegated then that's fine.

NSNO. I WANT TOP LEVEL.

And all the players you mentioned were signed by Moyes. He got a fair few wrong. And because he was signing players @£500k etc. it became acceptable if said player only turned out to be bang average. It wasn't acceptable. Martinez signed Lukaku. Because that's what he wanted. We had no more money but we got him on the never never. Or we signed players on loan.

Moyes didn't have the neck to go the board and say "I want him". Get him or I'm off! Or words to that effect. He enjoyed looking back at the pay slip and put his head down and get on with it. For all his "oh he's as hard as nails and doesn't take any sh1t" he took quite a bit from the board.

So being an Everton manager isn't about just getting the best out of the players that we have/had. Its about getting the best out of the board!

I don't want a manager to sit there and think "oh its ok its just plucky Everton". I want a manager to turn up at Anfield and look every player in the eye and say "we're going to turn these over today. We've come here to their backyard with a great squad of players and we know we're better than them. But knowing it isn't enough. There are 15,000 Evertonian's out there that are dying to see their team DO it. Now get out there and show them how to play!!!"

Moyes may have suited us at the time: 14 years ago. We were in a mess. Initially he did a good job to turn us around from a team at the bottom to getting us in the top half. But come on, surely now we all want more?

As to the content; I can't think of a polite way of posting because I don't swear.

It is surely inconceivable that this club would even think of such a move when there are such progressive opportunities still out there in the market to take this great club forward. It is desperate for a breath of fresh air not the stale air of the recent past. I can only put this article down to an aberration on the writer's behalf.

If he does come back, then I will be totally fed up. That appointment will engender no enthusiasm among the fan base, and will destroy all the hope that Moshiri's takeover has aroused.

After an uneasy truce broke out between protagonists who by and large agreed RM must go, to 'slight' disagreements about who is shite, who not, and who should never (dis)grace Goodison again, the gloves are off.

Any of you guys on the Bellew undercard Sunday? Entwhistle v Draper etc?

LL, MK, you've got your site back, bye bye boring summer.

ToffeeWeb is extremely brave in allowing the faithless to express their heretical and baseless views. It serves the devout in that hearing, reading such calumny only contrasts reality.

We can only hope that these lost souls are returned unto the fold of truth.

Our return to belief, aspiration and success depends upon our leaving behind the falsehoods of the past.

Jesus Christ, is an Evertonian, this is where I heal my hurt.
Goodison is MY Church !
Link

Can you honestly see Moyes getting the better of Klopp, Mourinho, Guardiola, Ponchettino etc. with his KITAP1 approach?

Leopards and spots.

As for Lukaku, the increase in revenue from the PL has gone up numerous times since Moyes left, with the latest hikes allowing for Lukaku which still stretched our finances to breaking point. Again, you do not believe if Moyes demanded £27m he'd get it. He was banging his fist on the table to get Jelavic at £5m! So what point are you trying to make?

Don't state budgets for not winning anything? Again you don't believe Utd, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool were winning PL and CL titles because they didn't keep everyone back at corners. What point are you trying to make?

You're very angry. You can't stand that the ginger one was very good for us and harp on as if for some magic reason the team should have been dynastic legends during his tenure.

The sports bar on Talksport last night had a go at spoiled Utd fans. I think some on TW expect every year to be 1985, which is ok if not so long as press conferences are phenomenal.

But, never ever expect another Blue to be beholden to Dame William of Kenwright ! The man has overseen an extended era of dilute mediocrity.

Who's arse do you want us to kiss ?
Because we either look up and work towards success or we rub our arses with vaseline !

Personally, I'm in favour of the aspirational route. I think that Sir John, William Ralph, Harry, Howard are far more likely to tell YOU where to sling your vazzy !

That Ralph, was he the guy who got relegated in '32 and which Howard MK do you want to mention? We would all like Everton to be dynastic, but its never happened. Only some expect titles every season. At least that's how they bleat on without caring to accept the terrain. Keep your vaz to your self.

At least under Moshiri there's no financial handicap. But that doesn't make us automatic winners of the title from here till the next millennium. I just wonder how close to Mourinho we were if Utd got 4th?

Our to hire list is getting smaller as more and more managers say no thanks.

No one wants to manage us outside of Pellegrini, Moyes and De Boer.

What's going on? and to think we once dreamed of getting Mourinho lol.

Loads of people on here wanted Martinez, loads of people 'in the know' thought Ranieri was a bad choice for Leicester. Loads of people thought Van Gaal was a genius. Mourinho was sacked with Chelsea one point above relegation last year. Pochettino's Spurs bottled it big time and ended up below Arsenal.

Nobody has got a clue if a manager is going to be a success. not me, not you, not Bill and not Moshiri.

We have no idea whether Frank De Boer would be any good in the premier league, most Evertonians probably haven't watched more than one or two Ajax games a season (if that!) never mind evaluated his coaching philosophy and man-management skills. Even if they had, and what...? Even Steve McLaren won the Eredivisie title ... with FC Twente. Genius! Maybe we should go and get him?

Apparently Bilic and Koeman are geniuses for finishing 6th and 7th. Moyes guaranteed us that kind of finish every season, and bettered it on several occasions.

It's a lottery. Might as well give it to David Unsworth with Joe Royle as director of football and Duncan as assistant. If promoting from within is good enough for Barca and Real Madrid, it is good enough for me.

The second half began with no player changes on either side and Everton set about doing what they had been doing in the first half. After about seven minutes Benitez made two substitutions and, ten minutes later, we were losing 2-0.

Moyes simply did not react at all. We continued as we were, made our first substitution with time running out and the game lost. Benitez had worked Moyes out. Gave him seven or so minutes to ensure there was no surprise and then sprung his own surprise.

Moyes was rarely ever able to change a game when things went wrong or to go and win a game through a change of tactics. When it went well it looked good but against better managers he was rarely able to make the tweaks they made in order to come out on top.

With the likes of Benitez now in the Championship with Newcastle and the likes of Conte, Mourinho, Guardiola, Wenger, Ranieri, Koeman, Klopp and Pochettino in the Premier League, Moyes is not the answer to any question posed by Everton FC.

Even with more transfer money in his pocket, most of the aforementioned will have just as much or more in their pockets.

Turning to the presumed candidates, I have a feeling that De Boer's brother will talk him out of the job before the guy even gets to the interview stage to speak for himself.

I'm not relating everything back to money. You were! All the "top" teams who spent "X" millions were finishing at the top! We shouldn't "expect" to be up there because we haven't spent the same money.

I'm angry? yeah, when I hear bollocks like that! Moyes is a top manager who wasn't given the money!!! It grates on me. He's not a top manager and he WAS given some money. He signed Felliani for £15m. He signed Yak £11.5m. He signed Andy Johnson for £9m and Beattie for £6.5m. Then Jellyman for £5m. Baines cost £5m. I could go on. He didn't make the right signings.

Right, I'll make my point, in no uncertain terms:-

Moyes played ONE upfront against Norwich at HOME. Moyes played 2 at the back and one near the centre circle ATTACKING a corner, against Bolton at HOME.
It's negative same same tactics despite the different opposition.
When the opposition changes you have to adapt. And that is the biggest issue with Moyes; he can't adapt. He can't change. And he would never succeed at the top level.
Getting battered 3-nil at home in the quarters of the FA cup when there was really only City left in the competition. Really poor attempts at trying to get the trophy we all craved.

Well, ok, maybe it's the majority that crave it. Some would except finshing 6th with a goal diff of -5. Zero trophies and about 4 live TV appearances because we are flat boring to watch.

Budgets DO help you to get up the league. But that is not to say that the teams that spend the most win everything. It simply isn't true. Wigan won the cup. Leicester just won the league. I can go on.

Lukaku was first signed on LOAN by Martinez.

Moyes got some players in on loan..... Andy van der Meide. And Royston Drenthe. yeah, don't tell me, you liked them too?

Leicester were drawing 1-1 the other week, had a corner and.... SENT THE GOALIE UP to try and get the win!
Moyes would drop down dead! His point would be "nae laddie, ats a good point this lads".

Are you getting me? Too negative. Maybe at the 3rd attempt Villa get Moyes and you can keep an eye on him in the Championship. But that's his heavy. That is where he would be successful - at that level.

Great, lets go and get their manager, maybe he could do the same with us?

ps ٣-10m is nothing. And most of those players were good buys.

Your list of players runs out very quickly. Because that is the list. We know he was given money, but he was not given money!

Yeah he payed one up front. 4231 is a popular formation. Mourinho scored most goals in a PL season using it. Another manager labelled negative. Pragmatic is how I'd view them both.

And I don't think a league cup win, even our first ever, would have changed peoples minds on Moyes. But whatever your expectations were, you needed money to get there... Leicester is an aberration. If it wasn't, people wouldn't be talking about it as they greatest ever sporting achievement.

That he did this with a pittance from Bill and cronies makes it even more remarkable.

He always acted with dignity and unlike the FSW never belittled other clubs or managers.

However he fell out of love with EFC in his final couple of years and whether that is down to the board not supporting him or not he ultimately refused to sign a new contract but even worse was walking around with a titty lip every day depressing everyone.

Then it transpired he had been promised the Utd job at a Xmas get together with Fergie and ran down the last 6 months of his contract even using some of that time on Utd business.

At the time I blamed BK for allowing this and getting no compensation but it transpired that Moyes lied about when he was offered the Utd Job and cracks in his integrity started to appear.

This was followed by the Baines/ Fellaini saga where I felt he thought he had become Johnnie big time and belittled our club over the whole affair.

Taking that into consideration I put him alongside the FSW as someone with ability that no self respecting Blue would want at our club.

We should have more ambition and self respect for our club than to even consider a man who not only turned his back on our club but insulted us too.

Mark - You say that no one can predict how good a manager will do, but then say that Moyes "guaranteed" 6th or 7th?? Which one is it?

He didn't guarantee anything of the sort, but you keep telling yourself that, if it helps.

What was a given with dreary Davie was Everton bottling big games, no wins at any of the so called big four EVER and some severe spells of boredom, which was on par with some of the dross Martinez has served up.

There were some ok-ish moments, I accept that, and he did stabilise us, but you seem to want to completely airbrush the man's utterly despicable, deceitful and lie fuelled exit from Everton to his Uncle Alex.

For me, regardless of his accomplishments (or lack of, depending on your point of view) that behaviour can never be forgiven, and his name isn't fit to be associated with the club or, more importantly, our future.

Can't disagree on the big games bottling. The Cup semi pissed me off as much as anyone.

I we're not trying to convince ourselves. The arguments are laid out, the budget and league table record is there to see. Sure, if we had Mourinho we'd have what you wanted to achieve, but that's one manager.

Who would you have had to bring us titles and CL runs?

Nick, I accept your point. But as I said before the club that spends the most doesn't equate to winning. Or Chelsea would not have finished 10th this season. And Newcastle would not have got relegated.

You can say Leicester is an aberration. But I think that the game has changed. I think that we are seeing what was a fairly elitest league become more open. Because a player at £40m is only marginally better than a player at £20m. And you play in a certain style and have a team ethic I think you can see that teams can compete.

I say negative you say pragmatic. I don't want either at my club.

A positive style of play and a play without fear is what I crave. As I said before I want to go to the RS and tear them open.

I want to win things. I actually don't mind finishing 4th and saying "you know what, we had a good season and we had a go there".

1985??? I'd take 1986. Finish 2nd in the cup. 2nd in the league but we had a bloody good go. 2 up front and a team that played for each other. Won eff all. But I loved it. We were awesome. When we turned up you knew there were goals in the team. The number of player who really played for the manager.

Our first ever league cup win under Moyes WOULD have me change my mind. Not about his style of play. But I would defend him as a manager. As I would with Joe Royle. 11 years is looong time. And it why you can't mention Moyes and Mourinho in the same breath. Mourinho has won is all. Were as Moyes has won eff all.

Not to put too fine a point on it but the last manager who openly stated he was targeting 40 points, just won the league. Two of the managers who were supposed to win the league and didn't were fired (JM and now LVG).

Maybe, just maybe, Moyes knew what he was doing manageing expectations by stating to the public a 40 point target while privately trying for top four or winning the league. But, if you beleive DM is a failure because he didn't win the league then you are delusional. He never had a chance with the squad he could assemble with the limitations imposed upon him.

Didn't TGT have money manure? How did that turn out?

Move on.

One thing I will say in his defense, he ain't that ginger anymore. TT it is then.

You can't predict how well a manager IS GOING to do. Moyes proved his ability to get us to consistently in finish around there. Regardless of whether you think that is good enough or not

And, when we actually finished 4th under Moyes we did so with the lowest ever points tally of a team finishing in 4th. No team has got there since with that points total.

Negative/pragmatic.

Moyes should of gone after the 2009 Cup loss. I think it was at that point he realized he reached his limit both personally and the at the club as well. After that it became the same old same old, except for that period in 12-13. I do think that upturn in performance was part of his interview process for the Manc's. Showing he can adapt and play good football.

If you think £5m was a lot for a 27 year old striker in 2012 you're deluded.

Negative/pragmatic."

Shite players. Same as had been the case for the previous decade. No it wasn't guaranteed back then, but he certainly turned things round didn't he, and on a shoestring. Put Mourinho in charge of Aston Villa this year, give him no money, and they'd still have been in the bottom three.

(a) Lowest points total to finish 4th: check out the 2003-04 season, when the Lovables came 4th with 60 points (when we came 4th it was with 61);
(b) Lowest points total to stay up (we got 39 points in 03-04 which I presume is the season you mean). WBA stayed up in 2004-05 with 34 points. I couldn't be arsed checking, but I bet there have been others.

Why post these things? Reminds of the bloke on the other thread who thought we last won the League in 1985.

Back in 2002, bringing Moyes in was a good call as the club was on it's knees and Moyes was an up and coming manager, it seemed a good match for both sides. He took a chance on us and we took a chance on him (he was also cheap at about 𧸖k/year). He got the squad fit, brought in some decent players relatively cheaply and made us hard to beat which helped to steady the ship and take us away from yearly relegation fights. That was exactly what the club needed at the time and after a year or two he got a new contract on ٟ.5m/year.

All was good until the autumn of 2008 when the whole new contract saga was drawn out. Basically he wanted out and was expecting a 'bigger' club to come in for him as he'd obviously been performing 'miracles at little old Everton'. When his wish didn't materialise (as he wasn't actually that great a manager, contrary to his belief) he held a gun to BK's head and somehow got the club to give him a 5 year ٢m/year contract. Remember at the time we were worse than skint! He then also had the audacity to say the players earnt too much whilst being the 3rd highest paid manager in the league!

After 2008, the next 5 years was basically him waiting to leave to go somewhere he considered bigger and better. This was the start of the downward spiral - between Sept 2008 and May 2013, the only real highlight was the 2009 cup final, when an unfit Hibbo was taken to the cleaners. He'd taken us as far as he could by the 08/09 season and from then on things became progressively stale as he ran his contract down. Presumably no other club was going to stump up the 㾶m+ compensation to Everon, nevermind also paying him the same wage. It was during this period that I truly began to despise the man. He was so obviously only interested in himself and his plea to Spurs to sign him a year or two before he finally left us was utterly embarrasing.

For all those who maintain he could do 'it' with a proper transfer kitty, you only have to look at how things went at Manu. It was obvious from the start the senior players were pretty underwhelmed by his appointment and even with a large transfer kitty he barely lasted 10 months. In fact he only lasted as long as he did because Manu needed to wait till it was mathematically impossible to qualify for the CL before sacking him to save a few mill on comp.

Real Sociadad went even worse, think he managed only 7 months there.

Thanks but no thanks. If we just want to stay in the premiership being the 'plucky little club' then Moyes is the answer. If we want to be taken seriously again then he most certainly is not.

Don't get me wrong, I have some great memories under Moyes, eg was there when Big Vic got his brace in Nuremberg - but his attitude for the last few years showed his true colours. He's only interested because we're the only Premership club available.

He can truly fk right off and if the club bring him back then I for one am done.

Are you saying now that we will be "guaranteed" 6th/ 7th or better now, should his second coming actually happen (god forbid!)?

I seriously doubt that he could, if you look at his performance at the two jobs since he bared his arse at us and flicked the bird! At Utd he had more money that sense, and look how that turned out? Why would he suddenly be great at Everton, with a huge transfer pot?

You are asking me who I would have had to bring us titles and CL runs?

I honestly haven't given that subject much thought, but I do feel that other managers would have made greater strides than Moyes did in the time he was with us.

Even the oft lamented bobby brown shoes bettered many of Gingers achievements in his first season (record points total/wins away at big four), so if we had stumped for a proven world “name” instead of hiring Moyes, who knows where and what we could have won in the same time period?

I could also be completely wrong and AN other manager would have gotten us relegated!

If you look at the thrust of the main article, my take is that Jon is asking should we consider giving Moyes another chance, now that we have money, as he did so well with nothing.

My previous posts make my position on the matter crystal clear, and no amount of spin from anyone will make me change my mind. The man should not even be in the race for the job, nevermind being supported as a credible candidate by some of our own fans!

I will say again, it seems some on here wish to cherry pick elements of Moyes time at Everton, using the blue tinted specs, and ignore the dark times of dampened expectations for the entire club, poor football, shocking tactics and substitutions, bottling big games etc., which we were stuck right in the middle of long before the bitter and shabby way Moyes ended things!

OR

£5m for a centre midfielder from Sheffield Utd (2006) only to find out he couldn't play that position in the PL so try him at centre half instead and oh, low and behold, it worked!

In 2006, I don't know what you were earning like, but £5m was a lot of money.

£5m on Per Koldrup was a lot of money.

Mark, it isn't me that deluded!

Moyes did turn us around. Read my early statements. He got us from relegation fodder to playing average. Ok, above average when we finished 4th. But that is it. Give him all the money Moshiri has and he couldn't win the league. He doesn't have it in him.

I have amended!

"You cant say Moyes guaranteed 6th ot 7th in the same comment as saying no one knows what a new manager will bring? Thats like saying Mourinho will always guarantee top four.....Opppps, look what happened to chelski last season!
Are you saying now that we will be "guaranteed" 6th/ 7th or better now, should his second coming actually happen (god forbid!)?"

Not quite what I said though, is it. Let me remind you:

"Apparently Bilic and Koeman are geniuses for finishing 6th and 7th. Moyes guaranteed us that kind of finish every season, and bettered it on several occasions."

So quite clearly past tense, and likening the 'wonderful', achievements of Koeman and (as yet one-off) Bilic this season to what Moyes managed to achieve pretty much consistently for a decade.

If I thought bringing Moyes back in would guarantee us top 6, I'd probably take it. Beats 11th, right? As it stands, I said nobody has a clue and we might as well give out to Rhino. Didn't I?

I can offer rudimentary reading classes at a very reasonable rate if you're still having difficulty?

Moyes last 7 years were all top 7, bar one in 8th. Aston Villa... don't you know. Those last 'stale' three years it was us and the money clubs, everyone else was bottom 13.

If he came in now I'd expect season 1 to be fighting it out with Southampton, West Ham, Liverpool and Chelsea, with Utd, City, Spurs, Arsenal in the top 4. No idea where Leicester will finish.

And of course someone did come in 'to make greater strides' and now we're here entertaining someone new because it turned out shit.

Season 2, 5th/ 7th and then who knows. We could have RdB and do the same season 1, and either be champions or relegated season 2. No idea.

That's not the point though, the point is, what he had to work with, Moyes was a dam good manager. Didn't help himself at times, but he was good. Very good.

Some have said Pellegrini failed at City. Arsene Wenger has done for 10 years. So if winning one title with all the money in the world is failure and hitting 5th 6th with none is also failure, then success can only belong to Ranieri or Ferguson.

Moyes as manager and Phil fking Neville as his no.2.

Jeez!

Fun to be an Evertonian....

£5m was not a huge amount of money to spending on defender/midfielders, even in 2006. And £10m was cheap for strikers. The likes of Shaun Wright Phillips were going for £25m at the time.

Given the number of times those two players have played for club and country in the last ten years, and the quality and leadership they have showed, I'd say both were an absolute bargain. Per Kroldrup ... yeah he was shit. But at least we recouped £3m on him. Only £2m lost then. Mourinho and Ferguson both wasted much more money.

I believe we had the 8th highest wagebill when Moyes was with us and his average finish was 7th. Bad job? no, but hardly 'punching above our weight'.

Also like pretty much every club outside the rich ones, we had to sell before buying. Moyes had opportunities to sell certain players for a fair amount and chose not to. Admittedly the incentive was a little less if he wasnt sure how much he'd get to spend. His record of getting rid of players before their sell by date was also pretty poor (seems to be a general Everton problem).

I've got be honest I was very much in the Moyes return camp... but your excellent assessment plus my own feelings thst we should be aiming higher - especially if we have the mazoola - make me think he wouldn't be the right choice.

Am sure that he knows' there would be a negative fan reaction to his return, which is why the club are looking elsewhere.

We really, really should be going for it this time. Bilic should have been appointed in 2013, sadly not available right now... though in fairness, I do not know who would be right... Hughes, O'Neil, Howe - thankfully names not in the frame would be backward steps. De Boer... gut instinct says no... but what do I know?

We are more or less agreeing that we don't know what we will get with any new manager, but as I have said, in relation to the OP, Daveys full time and tenure with us should be the book by which he is judged, as to if we should even consider him as our next manager - its not just about his past league positions, or any other cherry picked stats.

Nick#110 - Again, we seem to be agreeing that we don't know what would happen with any new manager, and we all know what could happen to your expectations being met, should Davey turn up! I expect to win the lotto every week but it doesnt happen.

This comment - "That's not the point though, the point is, what he had to work with, Moyes was a dam good manager. Didn't help himself at times, but he was good. Very good"

He WAS a decent manager in the first few years at Everton - nothing more. He had all the riches in the world at Old Trafford and achieved.....the sack.

You both make no mention of the deceitful and despicable way in which he left Everton, and the subsequent way he treated the club regarding felli and baines - lets be honest, if we havent moved on as a club in every aspect since he left us, then we probably deserve him back.

Whatever each of us thinks of his league placings in the past, general managerial ability with limited budgets, tactics or any other aspect you care to mention, how can the man even be considered as a potential FUTURE Everton manager after the piss take of his exit?

I really don't think Kenwright listens to us at all.

He was given a poison chalice with Giggs and the clique.

10 months is hardly enough to judge any manager (look at Martinez).

Over the same period LVG had a worse record having spent 200m.

However as I said previously even though I rate Moyes as a manager I wouldnt let him anywhere near our club again after the way he looked down his nose at us.

Lots of dare I say 'bitterness' due to the nature of his leaving, much of which is speculation and ignores the fact that top clubs frequently tap up managers before they are finished with their current job. Look at Bayern and Guardiola or even Conte and Italy.

I don't want him back but he certainly deserves more than the derision that some on here pile on him.

Kieran:

"Everything is relative. It's like if you get the mumps. It sucks and you wish you didn't have the mumps but then you get leprosy and all of a sudden mumps doesn't seem so bad. How about not being ill?"

A bit bizarre, but I laughed a lot at this!!

Nick, you want Moyes back? Some of your points are fair game. However, you argued it hadn't 'gone stale' towards the end. So why is it the majority of Blues think so? It most definitely had gone stale. The constant playing players out of positon e.g. Rodwell right mid. The terrible and often far too late use of substitutions. The playing favourites even with frequent terrible displays and only dopping them after the most horrific of howlers (even the fans saw it months before the ginger twat) e.g. Heitinga and Neville. The fear he held, which stopped him from 'going for it'. And getting tired of no trophy and informed we should be grateful for 8th. He did well for a while, but most of us wanted him gone regardless of Man U's approach. You are as the saying goes 'talking out of your arse'.

As others have said he has been sacked from his last two jobs, why on earth would you hire a loser? If you want him you accept 'mediocrity' and are part of the problem of the club.

He was disrespectful with his arrogant commennts; Fuck off Moyes (and Round).

If EFC chase down Unai Emery, that is ambition.

If we can't get him but settle for Moyes, it isn't.

You pays your money and take your chances but don't be surprised if the stands start emptying.

No apology needed as Tim Howard was my #1 Everton GK, not my favorite GK, and certainly not my hero. I got over heroes several decades ago. As for my unfounded allegations, I went back through the post and didn't find any so I can't stop doing what I have not yet done.

Mike,

Who are you to label Evertonians as decent or not based upon their opinion of a manager that disagrees with you. As I said, if Everton fails to land any of the top 6 targets and is left with the likes of Howe, Hughes, and Giggs, then the club could do a lot worse than Moyes for 2-3 years. Any "decent Evertonian" should surely be able to see that!

Damian, didn't say he was my first pick. I'd have Bielsa. God knows who we' actually get.

But if anything went stale it was the backing from the board. Not Moyes himself.

His last game in charge at Goodison.

Howard
Coleman
Jagielka
Distin
Baines
Mirallas :60' (90+2' Oviedo)
Gibson
Osman (90' Hibbert)
Pienaar
Fellaini
Anichebe

Osman and Hibbert were old then. Pienaar was on his way down, and Anichebe was a class as ever. Neville missed out due to injury...

55 goals scored, 40 conceded. Lots of 1-0 and 0-0 that season. So I get the idea it went stale, but it wasn't the manager, more the chairman's pockets. How can you not stagnate with the transfer record I posted earlier. And yet, 6th position was attained. So even if he had gone stale, some stale!

Nick, could you comment on why I said it had gone stsle. Dud the board tell him to continue with Neville? Did the board tell him to make late subs? Did the board tell him to play players out of position? You seem to think Moyes had no faults and push the 'he had no cash' argument. You sound like Moyes.

So fucking what!!!

Is that some major accomplishment? Is that the club we have become?

I started following the Blues when Harvey took over. We were still a big team then, part of the Big 5.

It seems we have gradually declined to the point where finishing 7th is seen as good enough for some.

That's extremely sad.

I want a manager who wants to win more than he's afraid to lose.

Anyone but Moyes.

Leicester have just won the league with a bunch of no marks and a minimal budget. There goes that excuse out the window as far as I'm concerned.

That said Moyes achieved a lot more than Koeman who seems to be flavour of the month and a lot of people's first choice so the I get the animosity toward Moyes.

Look at the managers of the two Manchester Clubs and LFC with Klopp, then us with............David (didn't get Preston to the premier league and been sacked twice) Moyes doesn't really strike fear does it. Crazy if Moyes comes back and Newcastale in the Championship have Rafa Benitez.

We faded badly in the New Year, but this was possibly because he never had a very big squad, and was why his teams were only ever really consistent over half a season.

He was to me a flat track bully, and could never really cut it, whenever the stakes were increased. The Semi, at Wembley, was a point in case, as was Fiorentina away, when we had the team to win The Europa Lge.

A plodder was how my dad always described him. A good description, I'd say.

For all his faults and fluency in fucknut, Martinez at least refused to stick to the script we've all had shoved down our throats for the last twenty years. The one that states Evertonians should be satisfied with mid-table security and the odd peek up the skirt of whoever was bringing up the rear of the top six now and again. The one that tried to make us believe such unspectacular drifting was worthy of rejoicing and releasing commemorative DVD's of ('The Magnificent Seventh', 'The Elation Of Eighth'. 'Fifth, Fifth, Fo Fum, Even Had A Fucking FA Cup Run').

He at least acknowledged Everton's trophy winning past and, rather than attempt to write it off as some relic of a bygone era that people would rightfully piss themselves laughing at if pulled out in public again.... like one of those spazzy 'Simon' games that beeped and flashed and became boring as fuck after about three minutes...., he expressed a desire to achieve something similar again and a belief that there was no invisible barrier ensuring success should remain safely beyond Everton's reach forevermore.

After a decade of being told we were doing brilliant just to be bang average, how we were punching above our weight and punching above our weight was now winning in it's own way, how scraping a draw at Anfield should by rights be deemed really "incredible", how it was absolutely impossible to do any better without a huge wedge so we better get down on our hands and knees and hail the no-messing Moyesiah for working such minor miracles, it was refreshing to have someone stroll in and attempt to remove the scales of mediocrity from Evertonian eyes and the cloak of cowardice that had been slapped forcefully on their backs.

Ok, so it never worked out. After a decent start, he fell flat on his face and splattered shite all over the place. So what? At the first sign of failure, instead of wiping ourselves down, we whinge about it, come over all penitent, say we were wrong, tried to overreach, got ideas above our station, say 'soz everybody' and scurry back to Moyes to gratefully accept that which should never have been lauded as fucking good enough in the first place?

Yeah, right. No thanks.

Did John Merrick just give up and decide to wear a potato sack over his head for the rest of his living days just because the first Victorian prossy he dared approach said "Do one Dusty Bin head"? No, he had undiagnosed Proteus Syndrome, severe bronchial problems and lived in a time when being mercilessly bullied by twats in bowler hats was considered 'a bit of a laugh'. He had genuinely insurmountable problems and legitimate reason to live in fear, to hide his true self, to stick to the shadows, and be wary of falling flat on his face (because he'd die...straightaway). Everton don't. Not any longer. Especially after Leicester proved a closed shop can be broken into if you work hard enough at trying to pick the lock instead of mincing about moaning how 'It's impossible and the police might show up soon. Plus that trick with the credit card they do on TV seems very hit and miss to me. Let's just settle for looking through the window instead. You can't really get any closer than that with the tools we've got'.

Bringing Moyes back as manager would be as good as admitting "our rightful place is amongst the rank average, we're just going to have to accept it and admit we were wrong to ever think we could do any better".

Bollocks to that.

Bollocks to that if the club was still piss poor, but massive Bigfoot's bollocks to that if Moshiri is for real and not just another mate of Bills buying him some breathing space.

Bring Moyes back and I'll be waiting patiently for the brand new stadium plans to be revealed as little more than an image of Goodison with a gigantic Elephant Man style cloth sack photoshopped over the bastard.

Nicely put with just the right amount of venom!

I agree with every word!

I wasn't referring to the man's take on individual players or performances, or comparing his and Moyes's respective results (didn't even fucking mention them in fact), but rather his pronouncements, upon his arrival, that Everton are a club who should be up there challenging for trophies, irrespective of finances. No matter that he failed, and lost the plot along the way, he was still restating that very same belief just days before he eventually got the boot. Moyes, by comparison, couldn't even bring himself to voice any ambition for Everton above 'reaching 40 points and taking it from there'.

Resisting any kidnapping quips.

Are you just deliberately missing the point, or do you seriously need your own 'Moyes is my boy' brown sack to come with specs sellotaped to the eyeholes so you can see what was actually written?

It's not about Moyes or Martinez predicting whereabouts they might finish and then hitting that mark, err...Mark.

It's about their differing aspirations, ambition and the potential they perceived for the club as a whole. You genuinely believe any Everton manager should be imposing an arbitrary glass ceiling and making out that it's nigh on impossible for the club to move beyond that point? Even now, after two clubs have just proved it to be cowardly, short-sighted bollocks in the season just gone? Even now when the club are supposed to have a serious financial backer prepared to throw decent money at it? May as well slap a fucking blue trackie on Shaggy out of Scooby Doo if all all you're arsed about having is someone just happy to stay safe.

You even sum the situation up yourself in an earlier post:

"Moyes proved his ability to get us to consistently in finish around there [6th/7th]. Regardless of whether you think that is good enough or not"

It isn't and it certainly isn't good enough for the board to be appointing someone on the basis that is what they're likely to get and not a fucking ounce more.

You're right. Moyes proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that was around the limit of his ability and made it perfectly clear he thought neither he, or anyone else, could carry Everton any further. He thought it was the club holding him back, even though he was the one always pulling on the fucking handbrake saying "I dinnae think she can take much more ay this Captain. She's gonna blow".

If the club ever want to be taken seriously again, and seen as more than plucky chumps, they can't opt for a manager who has already demonstrated (over a period of 11 years) that not only does he not have what it takes to drive us on to success, but also that he himself doesn't consider Everton to be a club who has a fucking chance of ever doing so.

He made that perfectly clear himself when he went to Man Utd and said a load of disrespectful bollocks about David Moyes now being at a club capable of competing for trophies, a club where he was actually expected to get results and the fact he could finally go to Anfield with a team capable of winning.

I don't even know why this thread got past the 50s. It should have been "Coments Closed" as soon as Doddy said he wouldn't want Moyes back. That's like the fat kid saying the cake's gone bad.

I'm not missing the point at all. Martinez wasn't aspirational and ambitious, he was deluded. There's a huge difference.

Do I? Where have I said that?

It was top 4. Then Man City... not super rich Man City, but after thought, league two, no history Man City came along and did. All because of money.

Moyes woud have been a dingbat were he stating we're on for top 4 this season. Kinda like Kenwright and Martinez.

The glass ceiling wasn't Everton's creation, it was the CL's effect on the domestic league.

"Do I?"

Obviously, I don't know for definite Mark, that's why I was fucking asking you.

Safe and boring and ready to grasp 30 pieces of silver !

Bloody hell !
SAFE ! SAFE ?

Listen to yourselves, I could weep for you, really I could.
That clearly devoted Evertonians have been humiliated and relegated to ever publicly express that "safe" is anywhere near any of the aspirations for our future ?

Stop being fucking grateful because your master hasn't beaten you !

MY Everton set out to win !
MY Everton achieve success !
MY Everton are the best and only the best !

Everything else is wrong !

Not only one of the worst players I've ever seen in any shirt, of any sort, but definitely THE worst captain we've ever had!! Didn't have a clue about the club or it's history, scored more own goals than goals, fucking gormless mug who did a good job pointing and shouting.

This guy personified the mediocrity of EFC under OFFM and some people have had the nerve to suggest he returns in some capacity to the club. As far as I know, we don't need an undertaker.

Obviously, I don't know for definite Mark, that's why I was fucking asking you.'

Well what exactly was is that I said that incited you to ask? Or was it just a completely random question like, for instance, me asking if you're one of them men who like to dress as a dog and be taken for walks and play fetch in the park?

No I don't think an Everton manager should place an arbitrary glass ceiling on the club. But I do think being a deluded idiot should be a genuine barrier.

But he really had some clever shit in his toolbox.
Ratters will take some fucking beating for me as a Captain. Saying that.... In his team that he lead he had men far better suited to being Captain than ANY in our current squad....
Reid.
Gray.
Southall.
Sheedy.
Heath.
Van den Hauwe.
FFS.....
Richardson and Harper were often "filli-ins" with more guts, responsibility & leadership than any in our present squad.
Any of them would grab todays crew by the collar and frighten the bajasus out of them.
Them stainless steel bollox are what's missing from today's millionaire jessies.

P.S. The only good thing I can remember him doing was almost breaking Ronaldo in half. Apart from that........

Well Mark, I was one of those men (only did it on a Wednesday and Thursday, mind) but I since gave that up so I could dress full time as Frank The Bunny from Donnie Darko and walk around desperately warning people that "23rd of the 6th 2016. The day David Moyes is reappointed. This....is when the world will end".

Of course, if Moyes is given another contract with the club, I have a replacement cossie right here ready for the ride:

Link

Although I don't think my question was totally out of leftfield (bearing in mind what I'd previously posted on this thread), if you genuinely want to know what prompted me to ask, it was (along with your continual defending of Moyes) the following statement:

"If I thought bringing Moyes back in would guarantee us top 6, I'd probably take it. Beats 11th, right?"

Well, it does, but is that the barometer by which we're measuring potential managerial candidates now? 'Better than Martinez? Not exactly setting a high bar is it? 

Which feeds in directly to my original point. Just because Martinez talked big, fell hard and finished fucking 11th, why does that mean we should go running straight back to a manager who made it perfectly clear, both before and after he left, that he believes Everton are incapable of moving beyond the 'best of the rest'? 

Surely, the club and Moshiri, if they have any ambition, should be shooting for more than 'Moyes:The Sequel'?

Pip can kiss it as he's now cheerleading the campaign to get Stones to UTD. He was a decent signing for a bit but stayed too long and he was never a true blue.

Moyes is a loser; he was a loser at a skint club and a loser at the world's richest club. He took a team of Champions to mediocrities in 9 months before they realised they'd made a horrendous error.

As for the point about Koeman & Bilic being praised for doing no more than Moyes – let's not forget in those days the Sky 4 finished in the top 4 for about 10 years on the bounce. 5th to 8th was anyone's after that. Now there's about 7 or 8 genuine contenders for the top four.

Let's face it, who could predict next season's top four now? The sad thing is is that I honestly think they will bring him back... and worse – there'll be people on here welcoming him.

"personally I'd rather have a manager that thought we could finish 5-7th, and finishes 5-7th, than a manager who thinks we can finish in the top 4 and finishes 11th"

That's probably the difference between yourself, and most of us here. What we need is a manager that gets us back to winning titles not also-rans finishing 5-7th.

No to Moyes!

It's kind of like serenading your 50 year old ex wife who cheated on you and took your divorce money, when a 28 year old babe is begging you to take her to your place.

Anyone fancy "Vetting" Moyes and Captain pip ?

The fact that he was better than Kendall 2 & 3, Walker, Smith, etc didn't make him a great manager any more than being followed by Martinez does.

When he left us for better things, we all wanted someone better. I thought we had it after one season, the next two told me otherwise. I'm not convinced that Moyes now is better than Moyes three years ago, especially after two sackings.

Money mattered when he was here, but not after he'd left. United were champions before he arrived but were rubbish the minute he arrived. He had no assets when he was here, but the minute he left we got £32m for two players that we replaced with improvements.

If I had a pound for every excuse some people on here made for Moyes I'd be able to buy Moshiri out.

If Moshiri appointed a manager who had never won anything and been quickly sacked from his last two jobs, he'd get slaughtered on here, wouldn't he? And we are an ambitious club now, aren't we? We're going to do things properly now, aren't we?

I think Mr Moshiri has more ambition than some people on here.

World Class!
World Champion!
World at your feet!

That is top drawer mate, abso~fuckin~lutely top drawer !

I was a Martinez fan, but not a blind one. I could see his short comings and they frustrated me as much as anyone, but felt in January that he should of been given till the end of the season.

I lived in hope that the penny would drop and he'd realise that whilst he could put a side full of talent together, defensively did not have a clue.

My support for him was predicated that he'd see and relise this and do what all top managers do – (I'm not just talking football but all walks of life) and realise what his strengths were, weaknesses were and bring in a defence coach and delegate.

However he didn't.

A lot of people called it and said – he's too stubborn, too much of an ego to do that...

To all of you, you were right, but I felt he deserved the chance to see.

Some people seemed to have it in for him regardless. if he wasn't up to it, he should go, and he wasn't, but he deserved a chance to judge properly.

We can see and say now – he had a proper chance.

To his own demise, he stuck by his philosophy – which everybody could see was flawed.

Attack, stand off, don't press – recipe for disaster. After the derby, the Semi – that was enough for me. I could see he'd never change, not only that but he came out – talked more bollox and said as much in an interview before the Leicester game.

Now, reading all my post, it's probably difficult for you to understand how I could support Martinez in the first place.

Simply, because, he came in and was a breath of fresh air, after years of this is it – don't ever dare to dream – he told us to and dared us to dream.

He brought confidence to the players and exuded confidence himself, for one season I had more belief and excitement that Everton were going places than I did in Moyes' sentire tenure.

Martinez wasn't good enough in the end, but I'll say this for him, he wasn't a downplayer of expectations to make his own achievements look better.

Knife to a gunfight, look how much Liverpool have to spend compared to us.

At least he reached for the stars.

Moyes is a guy that took over a title winning side and finished 7th, Rio said that Moyes was so worried about the opposition and stopping them that United, (Man United now) would be playing home against Sunderland or equivalent and instead of going out and attacking them and going after them; they would be so worried after Moyes team talks and analysis that they would be more anxious about how to stop Sunderland at home than how to take it to them.

He's a negative manager – with negative vibes.

Thank you Mr Moyes for turning the club around, but he should have gone 4 seasons at least before he did.

If he comes back, huge waste of an opportunity, possibly the biggest wasted opportunity we'll have in 30 years.

With investment, new ground on the horizon and the squad & youth we have of the horizon...

I just won't be able to get up for it if he comes back.

I hear he was at Goodison tonight with Kenwright, I saw him there.

It could see the end of Kenwright with fans if he brings Moyes back.

I can't do another Moyes era.

Moyes is a good manager of small clubs. He made us feel like a small club, then he was perceived as a good manager.

He insulted us when he left, tried the same trick at the biggest club in the world and they, rightly, said no.

We should set our ambitions higher than a good manager of small clubs. We are Everton, the fourth most successful club in the country. Feels like we've been sleeping for a while, had a few nightmares in that time, but we are waking up now. Moyes will put us back to sleep, just couldn't stand that.

"I was a Martinez fan, but not a blind one. I could see his short comings and they frustrated me as much as anyone, but felt in January that he should of been given till the end of the season."

Seriously? I saw it a year earlier than you he wasn't good enough. Are you pals with Kenwright?!

"After the derby, the Semi – that was enough for me."

Feck me. How long does it take got you to 'have had enough'?! You must have a massive 'I don't mind us being shit' threshold.

A few Martinez apologists have been at it, but I'm getting sick of the 'well at least Martinez had high expectations against the big boys', forget that he had a woeful style of play to try and beat everyone because he was 'jolly' and so that's good, yipeee!!

I have read all of the posts since RM went and as others have said there isn't a perfect solution. Jose, for example, is damaged goods having done what Roberto did and lost his dressing room so just as well he has gone.

There are a few decent bets: I'd be interested in Pellegrini if he took Unsy as his assistant to get him ready to take it on in a few years, de Boer and Emery are both worth a go but I'd bust the bank for Simeone – what a statement of intent!!

Dein coming onto the board would be a great move. Best mates with Bill so the board would know the man well and vastly experienced in building a new stadium and we will need someone who knows what they are doing if such a project is in the offing.

One paper reports Farhad spotted at the Champions League Final in Milan – I wonder if he met with Simeone?

And to play devil's advocate further, who did we replace Fellaini with who was an improvement? Arouna Kone?

Let's keep it factual.

I knew that instantly when Howard Kendall was made manager the third time. Phil McNulty, when he wrote for The Echo, told me and I couldn't believe it. I know now that Moyes will not do a good job for Everton, he just has not got it in him.

For Kenwright to even contemplate bringing him back means that he is prepared to eat shit, I hope he doesn't expect me and thousands of other Everton fans to do the same.

But Paul's post was rubbish. A pathetic (in the rhetorical sense) preaching to the choir. An indulgence in logical fallacies with a cheap appeal to authority. Fine bit of rabble rousing but not for building consensus.

The saying that people don't know what they've got till its gone may well have to change to people don't know what they had till it comes back!

Would prefer though to see Bielsa stacking up on Toblerone at John Lennon.

Nick, you a Moyes fan? You seem upset at Paul's decent piece.

No facts. Just you contradicting a fellow TW'er.

So we should all consider, accept, then support your point of view, because... ?

I'm hoping Moshiri's money will change standards and expectations at the club. I'd have Moyes back like a shot if there were compelling reasons that match these changes. I can't see any and would love to hear them.

I'm a big fan of consensus, Nick. We all want the club to do better. No-one knows how any manager will do once we get him. I couldn't give a stuff about any 'choirs' on here; I give and get plenty of stick from all sides and long may that continue.

"Nick, you a Moyes fan?"

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Have you ever seen that episode of Alan Partridge where Alan ends up at some blokes house drinking tea out of one of those balls you wang in the washing machine and, when he enters the spare room, he discovers the walls are almost entirely covered in pictures of himself and David Copperfield? Said bloke then strips off his shirt, turns to reveal a massive tattoo of Partridge's face plastered across his tits and tum, and admits "I'm just a fan Alan. Your biggest fan"?

For completeness, the replacement for Anichebe I was referring to was Lukaku on loan.

Next time I promise I'll be more clear.

My main point was that the then 'skint' manager had £32m worth of assets to wheel and deal with. Any view on that?

Nick, how many Moyes tattoos have you got?

I'm definitely not pals with Kenwright, anyone on here that knows me knows that.

Well done on seeing it it earlier, as I said, I could see it too but hoped the penny would drop. It never did. >He built a quality squad full of talent (which is why I wanted to give him a chance), tactically he wasn't up to it.

As I said in my previous post, him staying in my eyes was predicated on bringing somebody in and delegating defence and the tactics relating to thereof. As soon as it became unequivocal that he wouldn't do that and wasn't going to change no matter what and the tactics would stay the same it w-as time to be shown the door, no question.

Martinez was given that time and chance – even after the derby and cup semi – he came out and stated he would never move away from his philosophy no matter what, so... with other options ruled out – like bringing in a defence coach and tactical support in over the summer gone, unquestionably it was time to go.

I'd like the next manager to be a winner that will drive the club forward. Simione would be my first choice (if he leaves Atlético Madrid ) and I'd go for him first.

Probably a pipe dream – by what not go for it – worst that can happen is he says no and we move on to another target.

New Investment, great youth and new ground on the horizon, could be tempting for him, if he wants to try his hand in the Premier League.

Not even factual that Barry was a replacement for Fellaini anymore than Kone was – the big man was an attacking midfielder (11 goals in 31 league appearances in the final season), so how can anybody be judged an improvement (except maybe Barkley and the jury would be out on that now wouldn't it). We let Heitinga go on a free and brought in Robles, does that constitute an improvement? You've chosen not to compare like with like, and in the final analysis, there was no improvement except one league place. Once.

Yes, please be clearer. And more factual. Just so I am clear, I don't want Moyes back in the least, but I'll give him credit for what he achieved whilst here.

It can be scary taking that first step on the road to ambition, once you do it you will more than likely enjoy it. Yes, you might stumble along the way, but a club like Everton FC was always supposed to be fighting for top spot. Time to wake up.

I'm always happy to give Moyes credit for the good work he did in making us a consistent top eight side. That's what any half decent manager should do at this club. I don't think he can take us further. That's it.

This thread was instigated by a view suggesting Moyes could be a feasible candidate for us. I'm stating my reasons for disagreeing with this. What that has to do with Martinez only finishing a place higher (agreed), or buying some poor players (agreed), I'm not sure.

I do stand corrected though, Peter. When he left the club, we sold Fellaini. The first two midfielders we bought were Barry and McCarthy. I'd prefer them to Fellaini, especially for half the money. We sold Anichebe and then bought Kone (poor buy) and Lukaku on loan. Still good value methinks. For what it's worth, we scored more goals the following season, in my view due to us having a better balanced midfield and a decent striker.

What was stopping Moyes selling these two players and replacing them? I actually think Moyes was good at wheeling and dealing, especially at the lower end of the market. Why did he not do it with these two?

I'm glad we both agree that we can do better than Moyes to take the team where we want to be.

"He built a quality squad full of talent."

Decent signings: Lukaku, Barry, Galloway, Besic, Deulofeu.

Some poor signings though: Niasse, Kone, Alcaraz, Atsu, McCarthy, Robles, Traore, McGeady

Doesn't look great does it? Especially with his parting gift costing £14 mill.

Plus the players that were already here he has taken backwards, eg, Baines, Coleman. & Barkley.

So your statement doesn't add up.

Paul 197, Logical reasons for his return... Well, he's not my first choice, he's not even a preference. I've just defending the guy's managerial tenure with us.

Dave 198, My mistake, League 2 Championship!

Damian 202, welcome. This thread is just some nostalgic berating between the MOBs and the Apologists. If he does come back, you'll soon find out what that's all about... and you'll have to up your game - 'how many tattoos you've got' just wont cut it.

Paul 206, Fellaini was good for us no doubt. Especially when he did play deep with Gibson. But no one was offering £27m... other than Moyes which yes, is hilarious.

I'm old enough and lucky enough to remember genuinely brilliant Everton managers who have built teams and won things and if I'm honest, I've always found the praise given to Moyes extremely disproportionate for one who did a good, solid job but little more. Glad you mentioned the point about Fellaini, as it was hilarious, but mentioning it would have felt like a low blow on my part!

I'm not interested in any of the anti/pro-Moyes, anti/pro-Martinez bollocks. I've been labelled as all four by various people on this site over the years. For the record I think neither of them are good enough and we would be best served moving on to whoever the next guy is. When he does arrive, I'd prefer to use our best managers as the yardstick rather than the likes of Moyes and Martinez.

Decent signings: Lukaku, Barry, Galloway, Besic, Deulofeu.

Some poor signings though: Niasse, Kone, Alcaraz, Atsu, McCarthy, Robles, Traore, McGeady

Doesn't look great does it? Especially with his parting gift costing 14 mill.

Plus the players that were already here he has taken backwards e.g. Baines, Coleman. & Barkley.

So your statement doesn't add up.

-------

Fair enough – Damien on the mixed feelings on this point, but I see it a bit differently.

Decent players -– Lukaku, Besic, Funes Mori, Deulofeu – I think are far more than decent and serious talents, that with the right tactics and coaching...

Decent signings which improved our squad would be players like – Galloway (plenty of potential), Lennon etc.

We've got a very strong squad of players (granted Barkley, Stones etc already there), but the tactics never allowed our players to fulfil potential.

You can also take any manager signings and pick out players not great. The squad was vast improvement on what we had previously.

Perhaps – being used to Phil Neville in midfield, Jelavic up front... and goodness knows what else.

Once I could see the tactics and Martinez was not prepared to bring anybody in and it would remain as is, that was it for me.

Nick E, I'm thinking you may have the same set up with the ginger one on your walls?

If Michael or Lyndon ever put up a poll for having Moyes back, I'm confident the % who don't want him near GP would be at least in the 80s. (I'd put 90s but then I remember about 10% of people still wanted to stick with Martinez at the end, so you've got to account for the wind up merchants.)

Predict there would be demonstrations outside the club before the season even started if he were to be brought back.

That, or the one where he put his foot through a spike on the way to his career-saving motivational speech and threw up on the mike, describing his puking in great detail to the audience.

Please let us close this thread – Moyes will NOT be coming back to manage Everton.

We're supposed to be on the same side; just because someone comes on strong against another poster does not make them right. It is all about opinions and different peoples points of view. Such is democracy.

Some people on here need to get off their high horse. Your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's. Have a go if you want, but you know I'm right.

My opinion on next manager of Everton: whoever they sign will do for me because I cannot influence the decision, and I will get behind whoever it is.

By the way, my partner who used to work in Billy Blues in New Brighton (anyone) has it on good authority having known Joe Royle since the 70s that he will have no part in managing Everton. She also knows and is in semi-regular contact with a certain Ian Rush who proposed to her in the early 80s.
Basically what I'm saying is no-one knows nothing.

The best Partridge episode is the one where he ends up with chocolate mousse all over his face after talking about the pedestrianization of Norwich city-centre (to keep the wolf from the door).

The radio station that has the premise "you say tomato, then I'll say potato, then we'll get some unemployed has been on the phone and he'll prove that he's a cabbage", smashing.

Knowing me Alan Tomato, knowing you Butch Potato ! Aha !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3xj5b7hVco

I remember when the Arabs took over Man City and how they loved the "noisy neighbours" tag. We can't be challenging their preconceived ideas of us can we?

There is no definitive measure by which any potential future coach can be evaluated so hiring any of them is a massive leap in the dark with a chance of terrible failure. It may be that Moyes is the best candidate.

Not my choice of course as managers don't tend to recycle very well, just the most negative thing the club could do.

I notice now that Moshiri is asserting his influence now in all things and Kenwright seems to be nothing but a caretaker until the takeover is complete. The transfer of power seems to be complete already.

"He had no chance at Man Utd or as a non-Basque at Real Sociedad."

Moyes apologist? So basically anything that went wrong at these two clubs was not his fault? He performed poorly at both and got sacked, not once, but twice... repeating pattern.

"It may be that Moyes is the best candidate."

Seriously?

He had a tiny net spend? Koeman has had –£19 million per season so far. Has lost an entire team of players and got them within 3 points of Champions League football this season.

I doubt Moyes would cope with needing to find and bed in so many players straight away and keep them competitive. Strikes me as the sort of fella that likes things simple and familiar.

I'm VERY aware of many wonderful things that you've done throughout your life, both you & Jenny. Loyal, friendly, immensely kind and unselfish.

Spend more time with her Bill, just spend more time with her.

And, PLEASE, get well soon Blue. Jenny is far more important than a bloody football club and so are you. Get Well Bill.

Your point is a bit condescending.

It's not happening and that's that. Nobody really wants it... do they?

New to this site, many posts already, none of them positive, few of them constructive.

The amount of over the top abuse Moyes gets, backed up by nonsensical logic, must amaze neutrals who read this site.

He would not be my choice for our next manager either, but his record, compared to any Everton manager since Kendall, deserves a lot more credit than it gets.

Enough is enough and, for a so called Spartan, to drop his shield and run to the other side, that's enough for me. Game over, it can't happen... if it does, God help us.

Fanatasy gone mad and the pictures from last night, is part of the heist. It won't happen, and Moshiri, will find the right boss.😀

I do not think he will be coming back sadly as, if he was, it surely would have happened by now as he is out of work. Whatever happens, I will never have bad feelings towards Moyes and will always be grateful for what he did for our club with little money.

My choice is Emery if possible but I would be happy with David Moyes if we cannot get him.

Given that he has never won anything and has been sacked twice, I can't see why you would think that.

Under Moyes we would never win a thing.

Why did he EVER join plucky but skint Everton to begin with? (Cos we were'nt awash with fuckin' dubloons when Billy press ganged him into service were we ?).

Preston fans christened him "Dithering Dave", and what did "The Big Boy in the kids playground" win for PNE ?

Just to focus your minds, his successor at Man Utd (within a single season) spent around 𧶀M, won the FA Cup and was still sacked. Cornershop Dave bought Fellaini. Cornershop Dave has won fuck all.

Spare me the forelock tugging, spare me the cap clasped to your chest.

This is EVERTON!
NSNO !

He had money behind him at Man Utd and he still got sacked! Average manager at best. I don't want average, I have seen average for 11 seasons from that man.

It's a good thing you are not in charge because it's clear your thoughts about Moyes are based on sentimentality rather than his ability as a football manager who actually wants to win trophies. You probably would give Hibbert a 5-year extension on his current contract based on sentimentality!

I had enough of Moyes after he bottled it in 2009 FA Cup Final! That's the closest we have ever been in recent years to winning some silverware but he had to go and fuck it up by showing the opposition too much respect and worrying about their team rather than doing what Everton needed to do to win the game.

Let's not forget that Everton had a one-goal advantage after Saha scored the quickest ever FA Cup Final goal. Moyes being Moyes decided to defend a one-nil lead for 90 minutes at Wembley!

Such was this fucker's mentality that, even after Everton trailed 2-1, Moyes decided to protect a 2-1 disadvantage at cup final rather than rally the troops and get them back in the game. I absolutely do not want this sour fucker back at this club. Ever!

Your article is very good at proving how you can twist the facts,I bet you could write an article telling us why Martinez was a good manager lol.

When you talk about the cup final if you look at both teams at that time we had no chance lets be honest we had no choice but to defend a against much superior opposition.

If he does come back and I do not think he will he would prove you wrong I am sure.

Moyes is only my third choice for the job behind Emery and Koeman, but I feel it is so wrong to insult the man that saved Everton from oblivion. Do you forget the state of the team before he came?

Where's the insult in that?

No fight no urgency and Moyes was completely clueless at how to get us back in the game.

I was at the game remember going berserk as time was running out at how we seemed to be accepting the loss and was wondering why the fuck we didn't send Lescott upfront, a goalscoring defender, go route one, and try to win the second ball and get that equalizer.

Now, if an ordinary fan could come up with that...??

Given his abysmal in-game management that day, it was obvious that we'd never win anything with him at the helm, and we can forget silverware for a very long time if that miserable fucker returns.

People say he never had money here and would have if he came back, but he had all the money in the world at Old Trafford, took over a title-winning squad and still failed.

NO to his return.

"When you talk about the cup final if you look at both teams at that time we had no chance let's be honest we had no choice but to defend against a much superior opposition"

That's sounds exactly like Moyes! I can see why you would have him back. Can you imagine before the biggest game of the season Moyes telling the players "ok boys, not sure how we got to the final lads, but let's be honest we have no chance against that lot! We've bought a knife to a gun fight. We're Aldi, they are Waitrose lads. We are shitty MDF beech effect whilst they are solid oak!" Now that Moyes has dampened and lowered expectations he has succeeded in making the players think they are shit and worthless, incapable of victory -particularly Hibbert, hence his nighmare performance. Moyes goes on to say "We need to keep it tight as an ars in a prison shower boys. Hopefully their keeper will fumble one in somehow!"

Does anyone think Leicester would have won the league with that sort of mentality. Can you imagine Ranieri saying to his players at the beginning of the season "let's just try and survive the season because let's be honest chaps, every other team is far more superior than us. Therefore, we really don't stand a chance of achieving anything great!"

The fact is no manager in the premier league has ever done better in terms of wins or points second time round. Even the so called great one failed. So no, no and no just on those grounds; that's before we even address Garry Corgan comments at 3.

Thanks Moyes, you gave us what we needed at the time but you future lies else where.