Martinez: Bad defending, not systemic weakness, to blame for Hammers loss

by | 08/03/2016  163 Comments  [Jump to last]

Roberto Martinez rejects the notion that Everton are routinely susceptible to conceding goals and says that his team’s defeat to West Ham on Saturday ‘makes no sense'

The manager has come under fresh scrutiny, more and more of it from the national media, in the wake of his team’s failure to hold onto a two-goal advantage for the fourth time this season, one that led to a seventh home defeat for the season.

Both Michail Antonio and Andy Carroll are reputed to have admitted that the Hammers players were under instruction from Slaven Bilic to put balls into the Everton box in the final quarter of an hour at Goodison Park because he believed the Toffees to be weak at defending crosses. That theory appeared to be borne out as three aerial balls led to three goals in 12 minutes to turn the match on its head.

Martinez insists, however, that it was a freak result, pointed to how well his team had adapted up to that point to the sending off of Kevin Mirallas, and blamed individually poor defending for the goals.

“It's easy to talk, especially when you've won a game,” the Catalan said in the Liverpool Echo of West Ham’s claims. “[W]e scored another goal from open play and controlled the game completely [after Mirallas’s dismissal] and never got done on crosses in that period.

“It's more that we felt we had something to lose. Winning the penalty was a massive high but then missing it was an emotional low, and all of a sudden we gave West Ham momentum that unfortunately they got a big reward from.

“It's not like they bombarded the box. They had two crosses and scored two goals, that's bad defending rather than having a (specific) weakness.

“For the first 78 minutes we were defending extremely well. We scored 14 goals and conceded only two in the previous six games, and in anyone's eyes that is a well-balanced team and a good defensive display.”

Despite being mired in 12th place in the table, one place lower than their final position last year, the Catalan repeated his belief that his Everton side are close to becoming a successful team. 

He remains at a loss to explain the defensive lapses that have cost the Blues so dearly this term, however.

“We've grown as a team, we've shown we can score goals and defend really really well,” he continued, "but then we go into periods where we can't really defend and we get hurt too easy and concede goals that affect scorelines with extreme ease.
“I felt the last six games we'd found a really consistent level of performance in different competitions, keeping very good clean sheets.

“On Saturday, to be so good for 78 minutes, half of which was with 10 men, and then concede three goals in 12 minutes, it makes no sense.”

 

Reader Comments (163)

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Ged Simpson
1 Posted 08/03/2016 at 16:43:54
Christ, that will send some ballistic on here.

If previous quotes got him compared to Hitler, god knows what this will do!

Shane Corcoran
2 Posted 08/03/2016 at 16:49:29
If Villa could just score goals and stop conceding them, I reckon they'd win the league. They're so close to being title contenders. They've just had 29 freak results.
William Cartwright
4 Posted 08/03/2016 at 16:59:57
Death throes, never nice to witness. Hope it all ends soon and we can move on as a club, onwards and upwards, COYB...!
John Malone
5 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:00:04
What planet is this guy on?
Steavey Buckley
6 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:01:14
It makes no sense with 12 minutes to go, while West Ham are throwing everyone forward, outnumbering the blues in their own half, Martinez decides to bring on another attacker, who has little or no Premier League experience.
James Flynn
7 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:10:39
Roberto,

Please be quiet. That's not a demand. It's a request. Just ride it out until Saturday when the talk turns to the FA Cup and Chelsea. You've blamed Lukaku twice in the press. Now you're blaming the defenders.

Behind closed doors with just the team? Hey, have at it. But in public, just take it on the chin and be quiet.

John Daley
8 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:13:44
Ged,

I think it's getting to the stage where people are just going to ignore most of his musings on matches his team have contrived to throw away.

For months now, it seems to have been a repetitive cycle of Roberto holding a press-conference, letting rip with a load of surreal comments that are way off beam and everyone posting to point out he's seemingly taken Hunter S Thompson's advice about finding 'the edge' to heart ("The Edge...there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over").

I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for him, the way he keeps hanging himself out to dry, because it does genuinely seem like he hasn't got a Scooby what everyone else is seeing.

At this point continuing to pick holes in every naive statement he comes out with feels about as redudnant as stumping out fags on the crispy fried skin of Edward Woodward if he'd managed to crawl out from The Wicker Man. He's dying a slow and painful public death regardless.

Ron Marr
9 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:23:29
Baloney. He's delusional.

Late game: Chelsea, three headers then the 3rd goal. Baines beaten, Funes Mori beaten, Jagielka beaten by Oscar (WTF).

Villa: Gestede comes on for the last 15 minutes, scores a header, and seems to win every cross.

West Ham: its all been said...

They've not replaced Distin, a fast and physical defender. Even at 48 he still looks faster than the Everton back 4.

Ian Jones
10 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:26:09
Well he does have a point. No one can argue that we defended badly for the 3 late goals conceded.

Of course. There's a whole load of other factors involved in the loss.

Dennis Ng
11 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:28:16
Guys, let's not fret over this. This is the typical "grasping for straw" rambling of a clueless manager ready to be sacked (e.g. Mourino, Rodgers, LVG to a certain extent)

Also, how is this the main news when the important "all clear" for Moshiri get second fiddle treatment. Change is coming!!!

Les Martin
12 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:30:00
It's amazing that he mentions nothing about how we actually lost the game. The whole ground new what Bilic would do with his substitutions, and rain the crosses in. Nothing about him dithering and bringing Barry on after we were 2-2, rather than earlier to strengthen the midfield and keep possession.Nothing about holding onto a lead that was surrendered yet again.

And a question for you, I they only had two crosses, why could not we deal with just two of them, but then again West Brom only had one ! and we could not deal with that either. I don't listen to his press conferences any more as I can't stand the nonsense he spouts.

You notice the journalists are now sussing him too! Carragher started this a few months back questioning strange tactics and its now gaining momentum. Not before time.
Ged Simpson
13 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:34:27
Agree John D. I just like the competitive outrage that breaks out. I'm a better fan because I am angrier. And to prove it, I have insulted his country, wife and parents. So there
James Hughes
14 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:38:00
Another excellent piece of nonsense from Roberto and I really love the last couple of paragraphs:

"We've grown as a team, but we have periods where we can't defend", well coach them how to then!!

"On Saturday we were good for 78 minutes", well you need to be good for 90 minutes plus added time, Señor Quixote.

This guy has probably kept his job by telling Bill how wonderful him and his theatre productions are and Bill has fallen for the bull. I think it would make an excellent mockumentary in the mould of the BBC mocking programme W1A we could even get Hugh Bonneville to play Bill!!!

Lee Atkins
15 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:38:22
7 'freak' results at home this season 'that make no sense'? we don't need a new manager folks....we need an exorcist. Freaky
Paul Newton
16 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:38:23
How can it be a freak result when it happens so often? It's reached the point now that you just know it will happen, and if we know it the players must know it too.

So our team loses confidence, and opposing teams are encouraged! This is ridiculous! And the manager sticks his head in the sand so presumably does nothing about it.
Phillip Mark
17 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:41:01
It's simple delusion. There was an air of inevitability about it. If that feeling is not a result of a systemic problem I don't know what is!

This defensive problem is his big battle. If he can't win it he'll never make it as the world class manager he wants to be. Im starting to fear he hasn't got the tools to remedy that problem.

Ron Marr
18 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:41:05
Somewhere Dave Whelan (the conference?) is laughing his ass off ... "Roberto is one of the top 4 managers in Europe" ... "Everton aren't big enough for Roberto" ha, ha, ha.
Simon Bradley
19 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:49:31
Wow. I gave Martinez the benefit of the doubt, at the beginning of this current season I thought ok, your second one was poor after a great start, you have until Christmas to prove yourself. Well by Christmas he had lost me, now I think he is completely insane, bereft of all common sense and has absolutely no idea how to manage a game.

Time to move on Roberto, Everton have a bright future with the makings of a great squad and a new owner with some money, but we need someone in charge who can hone the individual skills of players (you don't – you continually play people out of position), read and manage a game by making the correct team selections and using substitutes (you are pathetic at this) and not sugar-coating all your failings in ridiculous press conferences like you do after every game. Stop blaming everyone else, players, bad referees, the opposition.

The above article is a pathetic attempt to save your own face. This quote gets to me the most:

"They had two crosses and scored two goals, that's bad defending rather than having a (specific) weakness."

Errrr. Roberto if it happened once a season, yes. Maybe the defence had one poor game. But this happens week-in and week-out. It IS a weakness, you do NOT see it and it is (has) cost us dearly this season. The four obvious games – Bournemouth, Chelsea, Stoke and West Ham – points thrown away. All the games lost a Goodison (pitiful – only Palace and Villa have worse home records than us). Add those lost points to our total so far this season and we would be challenging for the title this year.

Please leave. Everton are at a crossroads in their history. With the right manager and coaching staff in charge we have a really good opportunity to progress and to challenge for top four places. You are not the person to take us forward.

Terry Ankers
20 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:50:38
How much more do we have to take before he admits it is all down to him? I am so frustrated and angry... surely he can see we need a defensive coach? We have now conceded more goals at home than Aston Villa!

I cannot enjoy a match at home anymore because you just want it to be over – especially the last 10 minutes.

Stewart Lowe
21 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:51:43
I think the only reason Everton are not acting now is because they are waiting for us to either win something or be out of all competitions and I think that makes good sense. Yes European places have gone but why rock the boat now when we are in the last 8 of the cup. We aren't in a relegation battle so a knee jerk reaction now wouldn't be of benefit to anyone.

Randomly, could there be a slight chance we could eventually end up with Mourinho? Now bear with me:

He did say in an interview that the only English clubs he would Manage if Chelsea was not an option were Arsenal, Tottenham, Man Utd and Everton, and he said this 5 years ago in an interview before we had a wealthy billionaire, or even the great squad we currently have.

For me, it looks as though Man Utd are just not keen otherwise they would have snapped him up long ago and looking at giving Giggs a go. Tottenham have already found a diamond in Pochettino, and that leaves Everton within England.

Juventus aside the Italian league is now quite poor and certainly not the league it once was. He has already won the title with Inter Milan so probably wouldn't want to end up back in Italy.

He wont end up at Barcelona because of his rivalry as a Real Madrid player, and the latter wont have him back as he ruffled far too many feathers, as well as only recently appointing Zidane, so that rules out Spain.

He wont go to PSG as they already have a Manager that has taken them clear at the top by a whopping 22 points, and the weak French league is a one horse race anyway.

So that just leaves Germany as the only decent league that could offer Mourinho his next challenge. Bayern Munich have just signed up Carlo Anchelotti, and Dortmund are doing extremely well currently in 2nd and managed by Thomas Tuchel.

So dare I suggest we could possibly offer Mourinho a sleeping giant as a project that hasn't won a league title in 30 years? He will be well aware that we have good young players in Coleman, Stones, McCarthy, Besic, Barkley, Deulofeu, Funes Mori and Lukaku. He will also know that adding 4-5 players in the mould of Yarmolenko and Slimani could see us as genuine title contenders with his guidance and structure.

It's only a suggestion!!

Joe Clitherow
22 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:52:35
So much for the "Mr Nice Guy" comments from other posters. Everyone else gets blamed apart from him, which apart from being pretty despicable in my view, is piss poor leadership. As others are saying, he is clearly desperately trying to save his own skin and doesn't seem to care who he hangs out to dry. Behaviour which is perfectly consistent with the poor treatment of Distin.

On his comments, well they are just rubbish as usual. Examination of his record would suggest that "bad defending" is a recurring feature of his management. So that's either unprecedented horrendous and constant bad luck (not possible), failure to coach or replace players guilty of bad defending (clearly down to Martinez) or a fundamental problem with the rigid system he insists on playing without fail (clearly down to Martinez).

Whilst there may be elements of bad luck he (and we) can all identify in individual games, this must level out over three years with Everton, and seven years including Wigan, and, lo and behold, the stats are spookily consistent. It is absolutely clear to me that the last two reasons (coaching and strategy) are the reasons for our underperforming team, and they indicate ineptitude and inability to adapt.

All of which is a buck that stops with our inadequate manager, however much he bleats that it isn't his fault time and again.

Matt Butlin
23 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:54:23
Sums it all up, on 5 Live.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03lv187

Paul Conway
24 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:58:40
'We've grown as a team'. Have we fuck! We have shrunk and wilted into 12th spot. This is becoming a serious case of 'the emperors new clothes' and it would be pure arrogance to think we can't fall further, with teams like Watford and Bournemouth breathing down our necks.

They also have 'potential' and 'possess a phenomenal amount of character'. He is simply acting the bollox now!
Tony Rio
25 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:59:08
The tragedy will be that a new manager will come in and take all the credit by simply tightening up the defence. Here's praying that Martinez can sort it out and quick. The man, and he is a thoroughly decent man, has added a hundred million (if not more) to the value of our squad. He's dismantled th previous managers attempt to re-invent us as a mid table club and one that was "over achieving" if we finished 6th. He's reminded anyone who will listen that our 9 league titles means that we should be competing for titles.

On a personal level he's in love with our club and reminds his players what an honour it is to play for us. He has shown nothing but genuine respect for the fans. I have disagreed with many of his decisions and yes, he is answerable for many if our negative results. He does not deserve the abuse being received by some and it embarrasses me as it's not the Evertonians way – surely?

We get angry BECAUSE EVERTON MEANS SO MUCH. But, I am praying he gets it right. If not he will always have my absolute respect and gratitude for all these reasons and more. No man is without fault. But we are not fickle. We are knowledgeable and expert fans who are first and foremost Evertonians. Martinez is also.
Gary Carter
26 Posted 08/03/2016 at 17:59:16
So, from what I can glean from that, it's not that we can't defend crosses, which would be considered a weakness, it's actually that we defended badly, which isn't a weakness!?!?

The sooner he goes the better !!

Ray Smith
27 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:04:33
Freak result.

The guy needs help!

Is there a shrink on TW?

If so please offer your assistance in finding this poor deluded soul a padded cell so he can't harm himself any further.

He should be gagged by the board from speaking on behalf of the club!!!

Phil Roberts
28 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:05:26
Well you heard what I said Seamus, Ramiro, Phil, Brian and Joel you are useless. Why can you not do what you are paid thousands of pounds a week to do. You are big boys now and you should be able to sort it out and it was all your fault we lost.

Anyway lads, Chelsea this afternoon so . . . . . . . . . . .

James Morgan
29 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:05:42
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt, Roberto.
Patrick Murphy
30 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:17:05
Tony (25) There is a great deal of merit in what you say and even now I think many Evertonians would love to see Roberto achieve great things with Everton.

However, not enough fans are prepared to see what he might achieve next season - if– he stays – as he's had over two years, watching on, as his players make similar errors game after game which has led to his team dropping point after point, particularly at Goodison.

Bill Kenwright is a massive Evertonian but he couldn't provide the money that the new shareholder can, likewise with Roberto, due to his own shortcomings he is unable to get the balance right and therefore the results will remain inconsistent, regardless of performances or personnel.

Older readers will correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Harry Catterick take over a decent group of players and got them achieving better results than his predecessor Johnny Carey, although some would argue that Carey's team was the more entertaining to watch.

Everton FC has to get back in the business of picking the best man for the job, the person who will give his team an edge in games, one who can tip the balance more often than not. Martinez has many positive qualities but he does not have that special ingredient that makes a winner and sadly there's nothing he or anybody else can do about that.

Brian Williams
31 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:17:49
"It's not like they bombarded the box. They had two crosses and scored two goals, that's bad defending rather than having a (specific) weakness.

Yeh, maybe if that was a one off game but "for fuck's sake" man it's happening loads of times.

He's getting desperate and embarrassing now.

He has to go, he simply HAS to.

Andy Meighan
32 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:25:37
Tony (25), are you his agent? How the hell do you know that he's a decent man? He wasn't very decent the way he treated Distin and the way he's now treating Baines.

So he gets the history of the club, so do I but I doubt very much that I could manage Everton. The truth is he's a fraud of the highest order. Yes, he's signed a few decent players – hasn't every Premier League manager? – but he's also signed some shite.

It makes me laugh the way some people feel sorry for him. This is OUR club he's messing around with not his and get this when he's gone – and let's hope that day is not far off – do you think he'll still love Everton? No, of course not, but I'll tell you this: we all will. Decent, my arse.
Charlie Martin
34 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:36:52
@ James 29, Roberto here... and you're right, it's not just a river, Denial's a phenomenal river that's had amazing moments that we should all be immensely proud of.
Mike Gaynes
35 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:45:34
OK, I'm going to come under siege here, but I actually agree partially with Roberto.

We don't get beat in the air every game because of the system. We get beat in the air every game because OUR DEFENDERS SUCK IN THE AIR. Only one of our guys regularly wins contested headers, and that's Jags... and he can't do it all the team because he's giving away 4-5 inches to many opposing strikers. Funes Mori and Stones have the height, but neither knows how to use his body to move the opponent out of the path of the ball as it comes down. If Funes Mori can't outjump the opponent, he loses. And Stones can't (or won't) jump. At all. Add in the fact that our FBs are munchkins, and you've got a ticket to disaster.

HOWEVER... where Roberto is full of crap is that his system IS responsible for the uncontested crosses. Give any good crosser a free look and some time, and he'll put the ball on target. And Roberto doesn't insist that his FBs and midfielders emphasize pressuring the cross. They're too afraid of getting beaten off the dribble.

And after all these losses the same way, Roberto's "freak result" comment is the dumbest thing I have ever heard him say. There is no excuse for that stupidity... or the repeated idiocy of being beaten in the air every... single... fucking... game.

Finally, my prediction... the new owner will NOT replace him this summer. I don't know why, I just think so.

Jamie Barlow
36 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:46:28
Tony@25 "The tragedy will be that a new manager will come in and take all the credit by simply tightening up the defence."

It would only be a tragedy for Martinez but I know what you mean and I agree. If he wasn't so stubborn, he could have a great team here. He just can't or doesn't want to see it.

I'd like him to do it, stay and make us a top team again but I think quite a few have made their minds up and want him gone whatever happens. They just don't like him anymore. That's when the name calling starts.

Andy @32 or Joe@22, what happened with Distin? Wasn't he going to spill the beans when he left?

John Keating
37 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:47:32
Before I would have called him for everything.

Now, I just love it!!

The more he comes out with these imbecilic remarks the more the National press and media will pick up.

There's only one way to influence Bill and that's bad publicity.

Just hastens the end! Brilliant!!

Ian Brandes
38 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:47:47
Hands up! I was the miscreant who compared Goberto to Hitler as in "as deluded as Hitler in his Berlin bunker" following our devastating defeat at the hands of West Ham, and his latest comments reinforce the fact that our manager lives in a fantasy world, populated mainly by himself.

As for "nice guy" there are too many feuds with players and blame placing for this to be true.

And, by the way, Ged, I thought Martinez was a breath of fresh air in his 1st season, and was vocal in my praise of him, but now he is stinking the place out with all aspects of his management on and off the field, so logic dictates he must go.

Let us hope, for the sake of this great club, that it happens soon.

Pete North
39 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:51:01
Spot on, Andy.
Steve Pugh
40 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:53:09
First of all, I feel that I must apologise to Roberto. I have been criticising him following a game that I saw over the weekend. I, mistakenly, thought that I was watching Everton vs West Ham but apparently there were only two crosses in the Everton vs West Ham game and the game I was watching had loads. Over 30 from the team in claret and blue, whoever they were.

Secondly, Tony. He has dismantled everything that Moyes built, you are right. He has taken us from a club with lowered expectations that achieved or bettered those expectations nearly every season and built a new club with higher expectations and lower finishes. Great Job!!!

Mike Gaynes
41 Posted 08/03/2016 at 18:55:55
Andy Meighan (#32), say what? How is Roberto treating Baines badly?

Got a bulletin for you.... Oviedo is the starter ON MERIT. He's our best left back at the moment. No doubt that's at least partly due to Baines's ongoing ankle issues, but until Saturday our recent defensive form had been much improved by the two lineup changes, and I say Oviedo had a lot more to do with that improvement than Robles.

Colin Glassar
42 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:01:35
Please, Roberto, just button it. Just stop talking whenever you see a microphone in front of you. If you can't do that, just take a deep breath, count to ten and try and be coherent in what you say.

Your support amongst the fans is disappearing fast and soon it will start to turn nasty on the terraces. Once that happens you are doomed so stop making feeble excuses, try and sort out our obvious failings and, most importantly for you, try and convince your new boss that you are still the man for the job.

Good luck Roberto because if you are successful the team is successful but personally, I can't see you surviving beyond the summer.

Peter Bell
43 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:02:20
I reckon Hibbert's biography will be a best seller, he must have observed some phenomenal stories we will all love to hear...
Ged Simpson
44 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:05:14
Fair enough, Ian. He will go in time. The cup will decide when. I just like over-the-top comments. Maybe, sacrilege, Everton aren't the most important thing in my life!
Martin O'Sullivan
45 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:11:54
No but Martinez has a systemic weakness in his defending philosophy which has seen us have the worst defence for 18 months and counting. The problem now for Martinez is everyone including the media are going to question everything he says and does!! <<:P>MARTINEZ OUT!!
Mike Gaynes
46 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:12:43
Good point about the Cup, Ged.
Paul Mackie
47 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:13:00
Andy (#32) The way he's treating Baines? You mean the same Leighton Baines who's still carrying a knock to his ankle? That one? There's plenty to criticise Martinez for without having to make up conspiracy theory bollocks about how players are being frozen out.
Joe Foster
48 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:18:41
Nope, RM – it's your management.
Tom Edwards
49 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:19:10
Self-centred, bullshitting, deluded fuckwit. The sooner he takes his folded arms and brown shoes out of Goodison, the better. I said on another thread that he is slowly but surely dragging us to relegation. Not this season, but if left in charge, we will be the next Newcastle or even Villa. Just get the fuck out of here you charlatan.
Eddie Dunn
50 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:21:32
So it was bad defending that let us down... "nothing to with me guv!"
He is really starting to annoy me.

I suppose that when Chelsea beat us in the Cup, it will be down to bad luck or more inexplicable bad defending.

Stewart Lowe
51 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:21:48
Here is a very strange thing:

Martinez has a degree in Physiotherapy as some people may well know. I also studied Physiotherapy and the whole ethos around how you treat patients is based on evidence based practice. In a nutshell, a physiotherapist would never treat a patient by any method that hasn't been proven by rigorous research to have a beneficial effect on a patient.

This smacks in the face all that he is doing at Everton. He repetitively makes the same errors whilst we all bang our heads and ask why. He has already admitted in an interview that he does not set aside any training that involves taking corners or defending them. He also stated that no time is spent on taking or defending set pieces either, as his ethos is purely on the offensive side of the game.

My heart is in my mouth every time a cross or corner comes into our box and this has not changed in the last two years.

Well thank god he Manages a Premier league football team rather than practising as a Physiotherapist as he could get struck off the register for continuously administering the same treatment that was hazardous to patient or ineffective at best.

Dick Fearon
52 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:22:02
Patrick @ 30,

I loved Johnny Carey's style of football and was shattered at his abrupt dismissal. The Cat wore a load of angst from that episode and it took him a year to implement his own less fancy but definitely more practical methods.

My original disappointment switched to one of fulsome praise.

Mike G @ 35, I agree where you say our FBs do not pressurise enough to stop crosses coming in. Yet I believe that is all part of RM's game plan.

Ian Brandes
54 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:32:48
Ged,

I like to think that Everton FC is not the most important thing in my life, and, strangely enough, it isn't.

Every time we lose, especially in circumstances when we have a good lead, I say " Well it won't effect my life."

But guess what? It does!

As for the manager, I would still like him to take us to the FA Cup Final, and win it, and I would praise him for doing it because this team is more than capable.

But, for the way he has destroyed our Premier League aspirations over the past two seasons, I would still support his sacking.


Andrew Rimmer
55 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:35:13
I told you so – 5 May 2013!
Andy Crooks
56 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:37:54
It would be a merciful act to put this sad, demented, specimen out of football. Freak result after freak result and he witters on. It is wicked of Kenwright to subject this poor fool to any more torment. He has been found out and humiliated; the board surely have a duty of care to him.
Martin Mason
57 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:50:08
He treats us all with contempt by being our manager.
Ian Brandes
58 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:51:32
Andy C,

Best post so far. Almost ashamed for liking it so much.

Richard Dodd
59 Posted 08/03/2016 at 19:56:45
I find it as difficult to stick the knife into Roberto as I did to OFM whenever he had a bad spell. And I do want him to win the FA Cup with us because the trophy winning memorabilia of '95 is all I have to show for my near 30 years in the faith.

I also want us to finish in the higher reaches of the Premier as befits a club of great status and a team of no little ability.

By the same reasoning if Martinez can't deliver on my expectations, I'll want him gone .

Seb Niemand
60 Posted 08/03/2016 at 20:01:02
I'm sick of having my intelligence insulted by this wretched buffoon.
John Austin
61 Posted 08/03/2016 at 20:15:22
The last four words in the quote above from RM "...it makes no sense..". Too bloody right Roberto. And neither do you!
Jimmy Salt
62 Posted 08/03/2016 at 20:19:49
It's a bit of a shame because I think Roberto is genuinely a nice guy with good intentions.

But he's looking out of his depth.

Steve Davies
63 Posted 08/03/2016 at 20:21:07
RM is not the most humble of people. He is a blame merchant of the highest order. He will blame everybody but himself.

The national media are on to him and he is getting desperate. His record barring a cup win for the most part is appalling.

He will be gone by the end of the season and will join the likes of Ian Holloway. I can see RM at Leeds funnily enough, or some other club who will buy all his bullshit.

Andrew Laird
64 Posted 08/03/2016 at 20:28:00
Ladies and gentlemen, England will be playing 4-4-fucking-2.....
Dave Abrahams
65 Posted 08/03/2016 at 20:50:08
Patrick (#30), yes, I imagine quite a few Everton fans would agree with you over Johnny Carey's team, ie, that it was better to watch than Harry Catterick's side. I liked Johnny Carey and he was a man who loved playing good on the ground flowing football but his team lacked bite and tenacity.

Catterick was left with a good nucleus of a team but the players Harry brought in gave them that bite and will to win: a better goalkeeper West; a proven ball-winner and tackler in Tony Kay; and the skill, fight and dribbling ability of Johnny Morrissey. Alex Scott was an improvement on Billy Bingham – they all combined with those left from Carey's team to provide a wonderful Championship winning side, ably supported by one of the best hardworking but vital member of the side. Dennis Stevens.

I am not sure about this, Patrick, but you are very good on facts but I don't think Johnny Carey's team were really good playing away from home; I don't think they won a great many of their away games... Nevertheless, they were a marvellous side to watch, without the killer instinct.

Alastair Donaldson
66 Posted 08/03/2016 at 20:51:13
It's just embarrassing now... I'm hoping someone behind the scenes there is caring enough for our Club that they gauge opinion of the supporters... it's nice our club is loyal, different, better in many many ways than most... but we are being let down, hugely – and it hurts.
Gavin Johnson
67 Posted 08/03/2016 at 20:52:40
Andy #56

I always like reading your posts and agree with much of what you say, and while I can totally understand you want Martinez out, as do most Evertonians I always find your hateful vernacular about Martinez bizarre, as you are normally more measured on everything else.

It just seems so personal with Martinez. It's like you caught him having a bunk-up with your missus or something.

You always say he's the worst manager in Everton's history. Do you really believe that, or are you being dramatic to serve a point?

I honestly don't see how he can be worse than Mike Walker and Walter Smith, or even Howard in his 3rd spell. We were hovering around the bottom 3 every season with the aforementioned.

Yes, the brand of football is looking systematically flawed and we look like a mid-table Newcastle United under Kevin Keegan. But you cannot even say one good thing about Martinez's transfer acumen or what's happening with our youth academy??

For those 2 reasons he's surely better than Smith who put way past it stars on massive contracts, like Gazza, Ginola and Mark Hughes, and Mike Walker who hadn't won a league game by October when he was sacked.

I think Martinez has been a revelation in how he wants to build the club from the bottom up, in wanting an Ajax, Barca type academy so we can have long-term success. His problem is that there seems to be no deviation from his tactics, and its now got to the stage where the BS detectors are going off the chart whenever he does an interview like this one.

I've said before that Dennis Lawrence being sacked last summer and bringing in someone more independent of Martinez could have been the intervention to make changes. That is, if Martinez was willing to bend and learn from last seasons mistakes. He hasn't, Instead he has continued to employ his Wigan cronies who look like 'yes' men.

If it was fantasy football, David Moyes would be defensive coach and we would probably again see the idealism and prudence married together like in Martinez's 1st season. A realistic option would be someone like David Weir. Unfortunately its too little to late now and Martinez has run out of time and goodwill, barring a miracle.


Christine Foster
69 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:11:10
I don't know what the hell to say after that. Its like his head is buried so deep in the sand his denial of the questions sounds just awful. He knows what fans and media are saying, that he must accept some responsibility, that continued poor defending is a result of continued poor coaching. That continued buck passing and "I don't know" answers are not what he is paid for.

Take responsibility, sort it out. It's a basic requirement for a manager to identify failings and attempt to put right. This is not about shielding players this is about taking responsibility for team selection and method of playing. Football is all about cut and thrust, attacking AND defending. One without the other is failure and whether you like it or not you are failing, again, with a different club, again. Change or Change will happen.

Grant Rorrison
70 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:13:18
Win on Saturday, go to Wembley. Cheer up for fucks sake. :P
Simon Bradley
71 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:23:08
Grant @70,

It's one of those situations again isn't it. Desperately want to win the cup, more than anything in the world. But winning it would make Martinez look great (to everyone except the fans of course) and he will get a stay of execution.

John Beesley
72 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:24:44
I can say that he is a genuinely nice guy as I have met him after both of us were on a course (this is just after he signed but before we had played a match) and after a 4 hour session at nearly 10 at night.

I stopped him and asked for an autograph for my lad. At this point you could not blame anyone for saying not now I just want to go home but he put all his bags down asked my lads name and as he was signing it I said I hope you succeed as I think you are a good young manager he stopped THANKED ME for saying this and signed "Enjoy the Everton Family".

He is just like on the telly no sides to him so based on just this I really hope the man takes us further because as some have said he has made some great signings and as the away form shows (which is the hard bit) he is not that far away from a Great team.

Never mind what he says he is Spanish just give him the start of next season and then if not he will go.

Eddie Dunn
73 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:25:15
Roberto is now fighting for his career, and Everton, his current vehicle for future prospects, will soon be a footnote in his CV. He will hope for a reprieve with a prolonged Cup win over Chelsea or even a Derby victory, but I am sure that he must realise that his days as our manager are coming to an end.

We will still be here(hopefully) next season debating the pros and cons of future games and the performance of our new manager and his/her signings.

Bobby will be managing at a lower level, perhaps Bournemouth? He, despite all of the bullshit about EFC is as transient a presence as Lukaku or Stones. We are but a stepping stone for those with high ambition, and a comfy rest home for those whose best days are now behind them.

The Catalan spin-master is now preparing the ground for his future employers, who will be attracted to his attacking football and the fact that he is one of the few affordable managers out there who are both available and have actually won an English trophy.

He must emphasise how he is not to blame, and his systems are fine things. The poor man has been thwarted by referees, bad defending and Lady Luck herself.

Next time give me someone who just tells it as it is... someone like Nigel Pearson, Sean Dyche or Tony Pulis, yes, I did say Pulis!

John Beesley
74 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:28:49
Eddie, did you just say Pulis!
Jim Jennings
75 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:30:52
I'm all for freedom of speech but the repetitive wailing from some has reached parody status on here.

Comparisons to Hitler, every media soundbite being dissected and offered as some kind of proof by the same posters day after day that he's deluded, urban myths perpetuated that Baines is somehow being ostracised, history being rewritten that Distin was some kind of impregnable aerial colossus at the back and the latest offering that Martinez is a "sad, demented, specimen" because he said we defended crosses poorly.

We get it. Some of you can't stand the guy, want him out and think he's useless but good god, does every article on here have to have the same people shouting just how much they dislike him.

Yes I know, if you don't like it, you don't have to read it etc but the point is that there are a lot of very valid, analytical, thought provoking and witty posts getting lost among the gnashing of teeth.

Honestly it's becoming depressing having to read this same "Martinez is shit" stuff every day. So I'll brace myself now for a "fuck off then and don't log on" reply...

John Beesley
76 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:31:11
Problem is as you have just demonstrated with some suggestions, that if we do sack Martinez who can we realistically get?
Andy Crooks
77 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:34:31
John # 76, Southampton seem to demonstrate that good coaches can be found.
Eddie Dunn
78 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:35:52
John, I think I said "Pulis"... could it be the cheeky Rioja?
Trevor Peers
79 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:39:56
Simon (#71),

Hoping we can have the best of both world's, win the cup please God and then send Roberto packing.

The new owner would have shown his ruthless streak, then appoint a tactically astute coach, with European experience perfect!

John Beesley
80 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:40:33
Well said Jim, and I agree Distin was a marvellous athlete and a nice guy and good Evertonian like Tim Howard but if he could not run he would be on the dole. All these stupid goals might be something to do with not having a good old fashion centre half who just heads it out dare I say like a Palace defender.

As Jags used to be a defensive midfielder which he was when we signed him I believe Funes Mori was as well before getting moved back and Stones was a right back and is not experienced enough yet anyways. I think we need a Shawcross or Cahill type to attack everything in and around the box and do not much else.

John Beesley
81 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:41:43
It may be a cheeky trip, Eddie!
Eddie Dunn
82 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:42:32
John 80, perhaps we could get Cahill as part payment for Stones?
John Beesley
83 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:44:42
If you could get Pulis's defending with Martinez's style of attacking play – then you would be onto a winner.
Dennis Ng
84 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:45:38
Andy, we should hire Southampton's "coaching scout". They have 2 for 2 in Poch and Koeman, pretty good hit rate.

John 76, if we sack him now vs. end of season, pool of good candidates will be larger end of season. OR we can sack him now, have a caretaker for a few games (or the kids can play whatever they like) and confirm, much like City with Pep and United with OFM, sign a manager who will only take over after the season. The only problem I see is whether the board wants to come up with the severance for both our and someone else's manager.

Grant Rorrison
85 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:45:44
Simon 71. Couldn't give a fuck about Martinez. Just want to go to Wembley and preferably win the cup.
John Beesley
86 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:48:14
Not a bad idea, Eddie, not bad at all... he seems to be out of favour there as well; why he is, is beyond me – but there you go.

I just Wiki'd him: he just turned 30, the experience we need and all.

Andy Crooks
87 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:49:44
Gavin # 67, fair enough point. I am bursting blood vessels over this because, honest to God, Gavin, I genuinely believe at the start of the season that the big four could be smashed and I thought it would be us to do it. Instead it is Leicester and for all the admiration I have for them I absolutely resent the fact that we have better players than them but languish behind them.

I accept that Mike Walker was worse (he was, though despatched when needed). However I believe, and this will no doubt invite mighty ridicule, that Walter Smith handled a shit hand pretty well and is a superior man and coach to Roberto Martinez.

I don't know what age you are ,Gavin, but I have seen us win stuff and be great and I would like the young supporters to enjoy the same. I think we have good enough players and therefore I suspect I overreact when I think we underachieve. It is not personal against Roberto, thought at times the red mist might make it appear so.

Ajay Timothy
88 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:50:22
Funny how people on this site forget how hateful people were when Charlton fans used to talk about Curbishley or Blackburn and Newcastle fans talked about Allardyce. I bet they wish that those managers had not left now.

Be careful what you wish for people. Lets give him at least until the weekend or end of season to see where we end up before we continue with the bile.

Soren Moyer
89 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:52:06
Sure. Blame everybody but yourself. <>Just go, Roberto.
John Beesley
90 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:54:48
As I have said Dennis, I am biased due to autograph situation (see earlier post) but because of the away form as well as it cannot be ignored. Isn't it the best in the Premier League and, as that is the hard bit, I would give him to next Bonny Night and if he has not sorted it by then he must go then.
Andrew James
91 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:55:13
People on here used to call David Moyes a "shit house" and a "coward".

He never, ever left his knackered team so vulnerable with his own substitutions and then dug out players afterwards.

In Jagielka's interview, our captain mentioned we weren't clearing the ball away. To me that sounds like a swipe at the midfield, the part of the pitch which RM had weakened with the sub. The defence rely on the midfield to cut things out before play gets deeper and they are directly attacked. I don't think Jags was blaming those on the pitch.

RM meanwhile has dug out his defenders and his best striker. He'll probably blame the midfield next. Then it will be the Toffee Ladies, the Mascot, the coach driver, the grounds men, the fact the Moon wasn't in Uranus, Daesh, Lord Lucan, Jimmy Savile and the Greek economy.

It's like the guy who is really sick after drinking 10 pints but doesn't show up for work blaming the "freak case of food poisoning". Man up RM and take responsibility.

John Beesley
92 Posted 08/03/2016 at 22:03:53
People on here who call Moyes or Kenwright anything on here are not correct; just remember that, before they took over, we were relegation fodder. Then, after a few years, 5th every season with no money.

Now how Kenwright has set this new owner up and not a Vinny Tan or the like. And as a regards to Martinez, Moyes had his off seasons... so just 6 months more.

Dennis Ng
93 Posted 08/03/2016 at 22:09:57
John, I'm in no hurry to sack him since we can get better pool of candidates at the end of the season.

Andrew, agree and he has been doing it forever now, just that now ESPN ran out of people to make fun of, so he became their piñata.

John Beesley
94 Posted 08/03/2016 at 22:22:08
Yes, we will see, Dennis... we will see.
Gavin Johnson
95 Posted 08/03/2016 at 22:22:27
No worries, Andy. I understand your frustrations.

I was old enough and fortunate to have seen the tail-end of the glory years losing the 1st derby FA cup final before coming back the next season, after selling Lineker and winning the title. I wish I'd have been old enough to witness the 83-84 & 84-85 seasons. It all ended to quickly after the Heysel ban.

Poor decisions at board level and lack of foresight about how big football would become in the Premier League era with the Park End development see us where we are today.

I hope we win on Saturday and we go onto win the FA Cup. it would be the perfect beginning of a new era.. It's a big ask though, because Martinez looks done.

Grant Rorrison
96 Posted 08/03/2016 at 22:28:19
Gavin 95. Yep, if only we'd built an extra tier on the Park Stand, we'd probably have completely dominated English football for the past two decades! :P

To think, some people blame the procession of shite signings and dodgy managerial appointments for the decline.

Clueless bastards. *rolls eyes*

Andrew James
97 Posted 08/03/2016 at 22:32:12
Moyes had two off-seasons.

First in 2003-04 when he had players like Linderoth, a loaned back Francis Jeffers, and an ageing Super Kev (Campbell) on the books.

Then came 2005-06 when we finished 11th with players like Krøldrup, Davies and Pistone in the ranks. Plus there was an injury crisis which one match saw us deploying Jimmy McFadden and Ossie up front.

Martinez has somewhat superior personnel but it's looking like another bottom half finish is coming.

Grant Rorrison
98 Posted 08/03/2016 at 22:40:22
It was Moyes that signed these duds to boost his top four squad. He spent a fair amount of money, by the standards of the time, to do so.

It was the bollock crisis that saw him routinely pick teams with 8 or 9 defensive players that finally did for me during his reign. Shame we have a fella that doesn't believe In any sort of defensive act now instead. Out of the frying pan....

John Francis
99 Posted 08/03/2016 at 22:47:25
People are calling for RM to install a defensive coach to tighten us up at the back. This is a non-starter for the simple reason Roberto would not sanction it, ever. Imagine the defensive coach spending two hours drilling the back six, then Roberto spending the next two hours undermining everything the defensive coach has just said?.

Giving him more time wont work while he has this intransigent attitude to his philosophy. He has to change the principles he has always believed in to save his ass at EFC, and I for the life of me cannot see that happening. That's a pity because the 75 mins I witnessed on Saturday was the best of the season by far. I cannot see any point in prolonging his tenure at GP because the full package he gives us is broken but he refuses to fix it.

I think all this anti RM rhetoric is by the by anyway, because next year each place in the EPL will be worth about a mill and a half, so our new business savvy owner is not going to stand idly by while El Bob spunks his dosh out the window.

If our Moshiri has his finger on the pulse you can bet your mortgage plans are afoot as we sit here. Wouldn't mind a wager our new manager is in place now just waiting for the cup competition to be over.

Hope to God he has to wait until after the final.
Oliver Molloy
100 Posted 08/03/2016 at 22:48:41
Tony Rio @ 25

"He has shown nothing but genuine respect for the fans."

Are you mad!

Gavin Johnson
101 Posted 08/03/2016 at 22:55:30
Grant #96

I think you're being a bit facetious there mate. I'm not entirely sure the point you're trying to make. Are you criticising my post because I've stated the obvious?

I don't see how the Park End development alone would have seen us dominate English football for the next 20 years, but we certainly would have been in a better position if the foundations of the stand could take another tier built on top. A total lack of foresight from our board.

Yes, the manager has a big part to play with signings and tactics. And with a more level playing field which we're starting to see with the extra TV income we've missed a golden opportunity this season. That said, our board has been incompetent since the late 80's which is way before Martinez and Moyes.

Grant Rorrison
102 Posted 08/03/2016 at 23:00:23
Gavin 101. Sarcasm? :)
Gavin Johnson
103 Posted 08/03/2016 at 23:04:08
No worries, Grant. You know what they say about sarcasm :)
Bill Gall
104 Posted 08/03/2016 at 23:18:06
Talking about the FA Cup, there has only been 1 manager who has won it more than once since the year 2000, and that is Arsene Wenger. All the other managers who have lifted the trophy once since the year 2000 are no longer with the team they won it with.

As history is not on Martinez's side, hopefully he can rewrite the history book starting Saturday.

Bill Gall
105 Posted 08/03/2016 at 23:24:49
Apologies, G Hiddink replaced Chelsea manager on a short term basis after they fired Jose Mourhino. But he hasn't won it yet.

Patrick Murphy
106 Posted 08/03/2016 at 23:46:06
Dave (65) Thanks to the Everton results website, I have dug out the following information regarding Johnny Carey's tenure at Goodison of the 56 away league games under his stewardship Everton W12 D11 L33 scoring 81 and conceding 131 goals.

By comparison our current manager has been in charge for 51 games, W18 D17 L16, his team has scored 66 and conceded 62 away from home.

At Goodison Carey's record reads W33 D10 L12 scoring 120 goals and conceding 61.

Roberto has taken charge of 53 matches W24 D14 L15 scoring 94 and conceding 66.

Overall record
J Carey P111 W45 D21 L45 GF201 GA192
Roberto P104 W42 D31 L31 GF160 GA128

David Hamilton
107 Posted 08/03/2016 at 00:18:59
Any bunch of park footballers know how to defend a 2-goal lead, how to play when you are down to 10 men, and how to stop crosses from raining in.

And the only time you are likely to see a team that looks as if it doesn't have a clue how to defend corners is when you watch a non-league team in the 3rd round of the Cup.

Either our multitude of international players are completely clueless, lack fundamental abilities, and can't follow instructions, or they are following instructions that amount to suicide.

Weird/hare-brained substitutions aside, I'm actually not sure which it is. The fact that it's claimed that we have two centre-backs who can't jump does make you wonder, though. How did they get this far, if that's the case? And what other basic requirements are other players lacking?

Don Alexander
108 Posted 08/03/2016 at 00:27:29
There's a huge difference between David Moyes and Martinez. Moyes had a poor season in 2004 and rectified things with much the same squad to come 4th the next season. He did so with a squad way less talented than this current one and nor was he provided with anything like the money given to Martinez. With what he had to work with Moyes was very good indeed, in years when nobody except us managed to gate-crash the incestuous Sky-Babe four's total domination of CL qualification.

And Moyes came to us without four previous seasons working as a PL manager, unlike our Catalonian Clown.

And yet some of us still clamour for Bobby Bullshit to be given even more of OUR time and money?

That is incredible and phenomenal!

Ernie Baywood
109 Posted 09/03/2016 at 00:35:53
I'll respect a man's opinion. He's entitled to it. Did we lose because we suddenly felt we had something to lose after the missed penalty? Well that's kind of valid thinking.

But denying we have systematic issues with conceding goals? Absolute nonsense... just look at the goals against column.

Claiming this was a freak result? Rubbish... it's happened too many times to be a freak occurrence.

He's put some bad statements out there but this might be his worst moment.

Frank Thomas
110 Posted 08/03/2016 at 00:37:04
Gavin (101) before Heysel the really big money was in the CL which we had finally gained entry into. That same year we won the league the money was about to flow in. All league one teams were just about skint (apart from LFC and MUFC) look at the old YouTube videos the pitches were in dreadful states.

In life most people assume there are certain rules, petrol goes up, house prices go up and TV revenue goes up. We know that is not true.

So the 㿄M lost last year in final position payment would have been useful it was offset by a small income from Europa. If we lose another 㿄M+ this year it becomes a serious problem. We need more revenue to help keep ticket prices lower.

Roberto is a nice gentleman I was informed by some of the support staff at the club. He loves the club. He inherited a good set of players and nobody should doubt Moyes would not have bought Rom. However the youth system was here before Roberto and will be improved after him whenever he leaves. He is a loyal manager who has been left down by some of his signing. Kone should have been practising day and night but from his play he has not done so. Others like Lennon have realised how close they were to earning nothing every week and are determined to work hard and prosper here.

Roberto wants to turn us into an English equivalent of Barcelona but he has failed to realise that when the opposition attack Barcelona retreat into two lines of 4 with the attackers helping to try and win the ball back. They do it so well it means they do lots and lot of practice.

Now Roberto has boxed himself into a corner "the FA Cup is not our main aim" he said it may now be our main hope of getting into Europe and securing his job for another season.

Peter Gorman
111 Posted 09/03/2016 at 00:40:18
Oliver Molloy @100 - Yes he is

Paul Kernot
112 Posted 09/03/2016 at 01:02:01
Bill 104. On the subject of Wenger. I just watched the whole Arse v Hull Cup game. For what it's worth, here are my observations;

1. Defensive blunder when Hull were holding their own leads to Arsenal scoring, leads to;

2. Wenger's game management experience allows 8 of their men to spend most of the 2nd half in there own half, soaking up pressure and scoring 2nd goal on the break, leading to;

3. 15 from time Wenger realises it's in the bag so allows his side to push on and get goals 3 & 4.

Quiz question: Which of these steps does Roberto have no clue about?

David Hamilton
113 Posted 09/03/2016 at 01:30:59
Paul 112

Pretty sure we've scored after being let in by a defensive blunder.

Roberto has little clue about point 2 unless we are playing at Wolfsburg, or similar (now that's the weird thing; he gets the tactics absolutely spot-on, on occasion).

I don't know how to respond to point 3. Have we ever had it in the bag when 2-0 up with 15 minutes to go?

Jim Hardin
114 Posted 09/03/2016 at 01:44:41
John Francis,

Thanks for that. Now, in my head, I can see the defensive unit walking over to RM on the other side of the pitch partway through the practice. RM has just ended an intense drill of passing the ball around the perimeter of the box without ever actually entering it.

They circle around him and he points to the now all-alone defensive coach near the far goal and says, "Everything that mug just told you is a lie!" "Defender is just a term not a position." "Now let's practice Cruyff turns, and backwards passing for the next 30 minutes lads. Stones, show em how!"

Ernie Baywood
115 Posted 09/03/2016 at 01:59:27
David 113, there's nothing weird about Roberto getting it right sometimes.

He has one way of doing things. Every now and then, like a stopped watch, it will be correct.

Jim Hardin
116 Posted 09/03/2016 at 02:16:03
I appreciate you all over there who show up the home and away games and must deal with the disappointment and outrage. While I have my own Yankee opinions, it is always with the understanding I am a distant observer and fan.

If it is any consolation when I on NBC Live extra over here to use the overhead tactical cam (as I have mentioned before) it is so frustrating to see how open and disorganized we are in our third. Worse is watching Everton players walking or standing close to an opposing player but not closing him down when they see no one else is. There is no commitment to defending as a team and until that happens the crosses will keep on raining in and goals will be conceded even if Cech was in goal. But to read RM's comments, literally puts me in fear that my head will truly explode.

I cannot imagine the frustration of the game results which then must be tripled by idiotic comments like those RM made about defending. This made me realize that I might have touched too raw a nerve with my comments too soon after the game on another thread which truly were to prove a point about the defending.

To Gavin and Darren and others, I will moderate my comments to allow sufficient time for the anger over games like West Ham to fade. Without your posts and the others, being an Everton supporter over here would be no worse than ripping off a bandage from a small cut whereas over there it must be like pulling your brain out through your nose every time RM speaks.

Here is hoping for a run of better results in spite of the manager. COYB!

And no I have not been drinking, yet!

Paul Kernot
117 Posted 09/03/2016 at 02:43:26
David 113. I think you have it pretty much spot on mate. Jim's comment (116) is perfect too. Even if Roberto had access to the NBC overhead tactics cam Jim mentions, he'll never be an Arsene Wenger I'm afraid. Hands up how many toffees wish the new investor could have brought his manager with him from North London??
Tony Gill
118 Posted 09/03/2016 at 03:11:03
I have not posted for a long time but can I suggest our new owner making a move for an out of work Jose Mourhio, whilst this may seem far fetched, would it really be? What a statement of intent this would be.

I also think a sleeping giant with major backing would be an attraction to Mourhinio... what do people think with my suggestion?

Anto Byrne
119 Posted 09/03/2016 at 03:27:02
Here is me thinking we are unlucky to lose SEVEN homes games; unlucky to concede so many goals from crosses into the box, unlucky to lose 2 goal advantages. Unlucky to give the opposition penalties; recklessly unlucky to have the same player red-carded twice when most of the time he can't get a game. Unlucky to have an out-of-form goalkeeper making too many mistakes and the faithful turning on him.

I really think we are unlucky to have a manager that is really out of his depth in this league. It's really unlucky that our neighbours now have a manager that is turning them around and, as per usual, it seems they always have an abundance of that thing called luck.

Maybe luck is just another word for self-belief and – given we are so unlucky – perhaps it's just self-belief is the missing ingredient. It's tough being and Evertonian... or maybe I'm just unlucky.

Paul Kernot
121 Posted 09/03/2016 at 05:27:53
Plausible Tony. Only two problems I see:

1. Robbie is such a bullshitter, he'll be very convincing in terms of how this is all a part of his plan and – just wait & see what we do next season.

2. Bill has a reputation of giving managers time. From what I've read about Mourinho's, if he doesn't have a better offer and the timing is right, I think it's exactly the kind of challenge he relishes and perhaps couldn't resist.

James Power
122 Posted 09/03/2016 at 06:22:42
Roberto is an absolute master, he has laid it all in plain sight in the hope we cannot see. He says there is nothing wrong with our defending, it is just bad... AND, but for our bad defending, we are actually very good.

In fact, we are so talented that were it not for our lack of talent in the defensive areas, we would be a very good team, hence we are close to being a very good team. All makes complete sense now eh!?!?!

Darren Hind
123 Posted 09/03/2016 at 06:38:12
Grant

"Out of the frying pan . . .. "

I bet I've posted that little saying at least 20 times since Martinez took over. Couldn't agree more.

I agree with Andy Crooks, Martinez is being humiliated

Best case scenario . . We win a cup and Martinez can walks away with his dignity in tact.

James Power
125 Posted 09/03/2016 at 07:50:39
I'm not sure Jose would come to Everton. It seems to me he works with the biggest and richest. I would like to see what he could do with us but I doubt we will get the opportunity.
Alec Smith
126 Posted 09/03/2016 at 08:19:09
Tony,

I don't really see Jose coming to us. I think it's nailed-on that he's going to Man Utd.

But I did have the same thought as you. I was almost tempted to put a cheeky fiver on it. I'd quite happily see us get Hiddink though.

Not traditionally in the Martinez out camp but – if he is unable or unwilling to recognise his own weaknesses and take measures to address them – then I'm sorry but he's not the guy to be trusted to take us forward. How gutted will we all be next season if he has blown through 𧴜million and we are still turning winning positions into fantastic defeats!

I'll be apocalyptic!

James Hill
127 Posted 09/03/2016 at 08:21:09
It's not often I agree with ToffeeWebers. Martinez cannot admit when he fucked up.

I love some of his signings but tactically he just does not have it. I can only watch on TV but it is the first time in over 50 years I have heard opposing fans chanting "2-0 and you fucked it up."

What else can you say? They knew what was coming. I am now firmly in the Martinez out camp.

Tony Abrahams
128 Posted 09/03/2016 at 09:01:19
John (#99), great point about the defensive coach, and Martinez, refusing to sanction it. Even if he did, it would only be good for set pieces, because as you say, their differences in opinion, would render such a move, useless.

Jim (#116), very good common sense post, which confirms to me, that you only come on toffee web, to argue!!

Darren (#123), Everton win a cup? have you been drinking Jim's bevy?!!

ps: For all our shortcomings, it's the first time in a long time I actually don't fear playing anyone. I know results haven't been great, but we can give anyone a game, if everyone is doing their job. A clever manager, could really get so much more out of this present Everton squad. "Let's just pray for a win on Saturday"!

Laurie Hartley
129 Posted 09/03/2016 at 10:19:03
Tony # 128 - "I actually don't fear playing anyone." I truly admire your resilience but that made me think; and I wish it hadn't.
Jim Lloyd
130 Posted 09/03/2016 at 10:46:33
Well, Roberto, you said it. "It makes no sense" and you're right.

Your statement makes no sense.

If you think that we defended well for 78 minutes and then for some inexplicable reason, did't for the last twelve, then I think you have overlooked something.

I think you've overlooked the reason why West Ham suddenly found enough space to come charging down the pitch with gay abandon in the last quarter of an hour.

Would it possibly have anything to do with the substitutions made, late in the game?

I've consistently supported your attempt to bring classy, attractive football into the team; and to a degree, I still do.

But you seem to me to be using excuses to respond to failures, and not addressing those failures.

That should stop.

Kim Vivian
131 Posted 09/03/2016 at 10:50:41
Jose Mourhino?....You're havin' a laugh!
Winston Williamson
132 Posted 09/03/2016 at 11:08:30
I mentioned it on another thread and I'll mention him again. My personal choice as RM replacement would be Bernd Schuster. He has won things, knows how to handle big players and commands respect.
Tony Kinsey
133 Posted 09/03/2016 at 11:30:45
If it's down to individuals' bad defending and a freak result, how does he explain all the other collapses this season and the poor defending last season?

We do struggle with crosses into the box so you would think stopping the cross coming in would be a start but our fullbacks stand off the opposition so far that it's virtually a free-kick every time they get the ball wide.

The man is making our club a laughing stock; as much as I would love to win the FA Cup, if it takes being knocked out on Saturday to force him out, then I would settle for that because nothing will change if he stays – even if we manage to keep hold of Lukaku etc for next season.

Tony Abrahams
134 Posted 09/03/2016 at 11:49:05
A penny for your thoughts, Laurie? Man Utd wiped the floor with us, but it was a very emotional day, when we played them at Goodison.

Man City and Arsenal, were both better than us early in the season, but since then, our downfall has definitely been ourselves.

If it hasn't been our tactics, it's been our stupid subs. Surely the equivalent of playing poker with a mirror on your chest!!

Daniel A Johnson
136 Posted 09/03/2016 at 12:39:34
Martinez is going nowhere he will get his final season.

As much as I want him gone I don't think the board have the bottle to end his "project".

Charlie Burnett
137 Posted 09/03/2016 at 12:42:48
I'm not going to lie either. Who watches Toffee TV on YouTube. Whatever they say on that video happens the next game – it's like Roberto watches the damn thing.
John Francis
138 Posted 09/03/2016 at 12:50:21
If it is to be Mourinho, then expect him to be quickly followed by a certain Alysher Usmanov.

Jose doesn't deal with mere billionaires, they must have the prefix 'Multi-'...

Jim Hardin
139 Posted 09/03/2016 at 13:08:42
Tony,

Is that English humour again? I admit I have failed to understand it in the past.

Now I cannot respond to you that I try to make observational or illustrative comments backed by facts or stats to support the point made, because such a response would appear to be arguing with you. Well played Sir!

Colin McBride
140 Posted 09/03/2016 at 13:13:35
I just fell asleep at work, woke up and it just dawned on me that Kenwright is waiting until the end of the season to replace Martinez with Moyes Mark 2! What are the Odds!!
Tom Bowers
141 Posted 09/03/2016 at 13:24:04
Moyes for the most part had the defensive strategy pretty good but only because he had to, given the shortcomings with his attacking options. The down side was once they conceded there was no plan 'B'.

He had the likes of one-paced work horses like Beattie and Bent, a quicker player like Johnston and then Timmie who excelled in the air.

Most of the time they were left to plough a lone furrow whilst the other 10 were in their own half.

RM whilst having the attacking options is just too gung-ho for 90 minutes and doesn't seem to grasp that it's alright to park the bus after you have scored, even at home.

Tony Abrahams
142 Posted 09/03/2016 at 14:09:23
Thanks Jim, I hope your newly found time and moderation, also finds its way onto the pitch, when you're refereeing mate!

William Cartwright
143 Posted 09/03/2016 at 14:18:34
Stephen (21).

Your analysis of the Mourhino position is not merely a suggestion, it is a very good logical analysis. It puts into perspective what we could be capable of achieving under the dynamic guidance and drive of Moshiri. It really is a game changing situation that we haven't yet come to terms with judging by some of the comments on here.

It has quickly become apparent in the last couple of seasons how critical the manager's role is compared to the 'star' players. Moyes and Van Gaal have cocked up big time. Klippety Klop seems to be doing OK. Poxytino too. The damage that McClaren has done to Newcastle for example is another example of sheer fiscal calamity which successful and driven businessmen will not accept.

If Martinez would quietly accept his own shortcomings and appreciate the patience that everyone has shown him, then he might survive. But his ego won't let him. Classic stupidity of the failed genius syndrome.

Mourihno would sense the challenge. He would also I think ensure the current team stars remained unless he sees better elsewhere. My only concern is I personally would not like the man because of his general attitude and arrogance. But there you go, that's exactly what we need to become a hardened winning team, and it is so hard for Evertonians to digest it!

Bill Gall
144 Posted 09/03/2016 at 14:27:44
To those who think Martinez should be given more time to get it better I have to agree, as he must get it better because it couldn't get any bloody worse could it.?
David Connor
145 Posted 09/03/2016 at 15:05:59
The huge worry is that Martinez cannot see his shortcomings and lack of tactical awareness when everyone else can. Even the players must be thinking that way, hence it is effecting their performances at home. We play a totally different way when playing away so thats not a huge problem.

Our league position will not improve that much, if at all, come the end of the season. The man will never change the way he thinks or he would have done so by now. That's the big worry for me. I think we need to sever all ties with him and his staff at the end of the season or sooner if we go out of the FA Cup. It's been the same old story for 2 full seasons now and it will continue under his guidance. I was willing him to succeed but don't see it happening while he is with us.

Huge decision for the board come the end of the season. Do they stick or twist? Personally I would be happier with the latter. We have suffered long enough under this man. Time for change.
David Harrison
146 Posted 09/03/2016 at 15:46:38
The man clearly thought Orwell's 1984 was an instruction manual. He is a master of "doublethink".
Alan Thompson
147 Posted 09/03/2016 at 16:01:53
Now come on, Lads, he's almost there, "makes no sense" all he has to do now is work out the start and finish to that sentence. Then his bit that we defended all the other crosses OK except the ones they scored from. So, who was right and who was wrong? Ermm, does 3-2 give you a clue?
Jim Hardin
148 Posted 09/03/2016 at 16:28:28
Tony, Still not sure how my posts on here lead you to believe that I am a poor or unqualified ref or that I don't know the rules of the game and how to call a game. Perhaps moderation of opinion is indeed a two-way street?
Christy Ring
149 Posted 09/03/2016 at 16:58:43
It's embarrassing, his tactics are abysmal, no shape, no closing down the opposition, and the 3 goals came from crosses, with Oviedo standing off, and Funes Mori not even jumping.

I see where he has now changed his reason for Lennon's substitution. It wasn't fatigue, 'a tight hamstring'!!

Chris Sutton is spot on...

Darren Hind
150 Posted 09/03/2016 at 18:20:49
Jim Hardin

I can help you with that !

I think people would question your judgement, because of comments made in the past – like judging a goalkeepers performance on how may "successful long throws" he has made.

Trying to tell us he didn't make any saves when we all saw him make them... and defying the evidence of your own eyes to defend the performances of a guy whose having a complete Weston, simply because he was born in the same country as you.

BTW

I very really comment on what Martinez says... His actions are enough to have me blowing my stack

Peter Caley
151 Posted 09/03/2016 at 18:42:36
Martinez... the man has become delusional! Someone who has a strong opinion, regardless that it is wrong. It's a serious illness, Roberto, and it can only be treated by psychiatric help.

Let him continue with these crass comments and hopefully the board will see through the mediocre performance his teams produce. His 'Champions League ' comment was almost 3 years ago – did he mean Championship league?! Go now, Roberto.
Jay Harris
152 Posted 09/03/2016 at 18:57:32
Unlike our international defenders Martinez track record speaks for itself.

His teams have always leaked goals like a sieve.

People defending him saying he is a nice guy need to look at the way he has treated the current players, past players and his past club.

Dave Abrahams
153 Posted 09/03/2016 at 19:14:23
Patrick (106),

Thanks very much for the information on Johnny Carey's record when manager of Everton, just come across it now. Thanks again for taking the time to look it up.

Tony Rio
154 Posted 09/03/2016 at 19:15:26
Oliver (100)

No I'm not. Fantastic retort and dissemination of my comments though. Look, I'm not saying Roberto is a nice man so keep him. I'm simply saying he may lack management abilities (depending on your stance to a varying degree) but he does not deserve the vitriol and personal attacks.

Some managers may deserve it or don't do themselves any favours because of their attitude to fans but Martinez is not one of them. Harry Redknapp has always been quick to have a pop at supporters and I'm reliably informed that even Moyes's programme notes had to be rewritten often cos he was more or less having a go at the lack of vocal support.

Martinez has shown absolute respect for us and the heritage of our club. Does this alone mean we can't criticise him or replace him – NO OF COURSE NOT but I'm old enough to remember Kendall finally sorting out our defence whilst getting similar abuse from some fans and the rest was history.

This is the best squad I've seen since the '80s and Martinez has largely built it. If he can learn, listen and change his approach slightly in terms to increasing focus on shutting up shop, we could be genuinely on the cusp of something. Will he? Let's see.

Great managers change, learn and adapt. And great clubs and fans give a reasonable amount of time for this to happen. If it doesn't them change – but with acknowledging some of the fantastic work done.

Neil Pearse
155 Posted 09/03/2016 at 19:48:10
Alternative response from Roberto:

"Obviously we've conceded far too many goals this season. Especially in the later periods of games. And especially from crosses. I'm not such a fool as to argue with clear facts! As a result we are working very hard on the training ground on the whole defensive side of our game".

Just trying to be helpful Roberto...

Tony Abrahams
156 Posted 09/03/2016 at 20:20:10
Jim, if you are a good ref, I thought you would have understood my last post. I just think that too many refs, make big decisions before thinking, and I wasn't really judging you at all.

Why do referees always take everything so personal, mate?

Lesley Forshaw
157 Posted 09/03/2016 at 21:39:17
It's Wednesday night – 4 days later... and I am still FUMING about that pathetic substitution!
Laurie Hartley
158 Posted 09/03/2016 at 21:57:54
Tony (#134) – like all of us, I love Everton. I think we can score against anyone, which was not the case under Moyes. When we move the ball forward quickly in the "Everton Way", it reminds me of the great teams of the sixties and eighties but – to use a boxing analogy – we have a "glass jaw".

So when you said you don't fear playing anyone I asked my self which fixture if any, causes me the most pre match anxiety and sad to say, I came up with the usual answer.

I wish it wasn't so and I think it could be remedied if we could find a big, ugly, tough centre half of the Vidic type and get our stamina / fitness levels up.

From my point of view the raw talent in our current squad shines through DESPITE the poor tactics, substitutions and fitness levels. This group of players are capable of so much more.

Martin Mason
159 Posted 09/03/2016 at 22:10:47
I'm reluctant to give RM much credit for assembling the squad as he doesn't buy the players or approve who we buy. I'm sure he has recommendations and other input but the scouting, negotiations and contract are all done by the club not the manager.

These guys are coaches now and most have no substantial say over who is recruited. Many have no say whatsoever. I'll give Bill Kenwright the credit for buying the players – not RM.

Oliver Molloy
160 Posted 09/03/2016 at 22:41:18
Tony,

I have said many times I would love Martinez to succeed but he's just not up for change, and my opinion is he is not capable of taking us where we as Everton supporters want to be.

The more he opens his mouth the more ridiculous he becomes. It is just talk talk talk talk for the sake of talking. It's never his fault, he has NEVER held his hands up and admitted he made an error, and he has made many.

Neil @ 155 nails it.

I would agree that he has signed some decent players and given your admiration for the squad he has assembled, you would agree that we should not be in 11 position in the league!
It's not all bad luck Tony.

His continued philosophy to play football for 90 minutes no matter what the score, his failure to address our defending and tactics when under pressure shows he is a stubborn man, more worrying is the ignorance of the man who proclaims, "I know what it takes".

This type of comment makes me angry because it takes the piss out of all of us fans in my opinion, and it is becoming all to familiar with Martinez.

I used to call this guy "the incredible one"! Can you show me any evidence to date that he is learning and adapting ?

Jamie Barlow
161 Posted 09/03/2016 at 22:43:26
Gobsmacked Martin!!

Bill Kenwright put this team together?

Patrick Murphy
162 Posted 09/03/2016 at 22:57:43
Martin you must be Bill's long lost son, how on earth can you believe that David Moyes and now Roberto did not buy the players that they wanted for their squads?

One of the reasons that the Everton job remains attractive to many coaches is the fact that they are left to their own devices with regard to how they run the football side of things.

Of course the board will have a say about the amount of money paid for a transfer and what the wage ceilings should be, but they only help the manager to purchase the targets that the manager has asked for.

Remember Howard Kendall, he wanted to buy Dion Dublin, the board said no on financial grounds and Howard left Everton. The Board at every club has the right to supply or deny their managers the funds for transfers but very few impose players upon their manager.

Why was Roberto allowed to bring in his own backroom staff, which I assume includes scouts from Wigan? Why was David Moyes allowed to take his cohorts to Manchester United when he departed Goodison, if as you say both Roberto and David were only at Everton to coach?

Kim Vivian
163 Posted 10/03/2016 at 06:35:07
12th(!) Oliver.
Tony Abrahams
164 Posted 10/03/2016 at 08:33:50
Glass jaw Laurie, so true. I think a big dominant center half, would remedy some things, but Jim's post at 116, is much more telling to me.

That's why I personally don't think a defensive coach is the answer, because when you tighten us up, we are not the same team going forward. Maybe the manager can rectify this given time but I doubt that very much now.

I can't even believe I'm watching a premier lge, team sometimes, the way we are set up to defend.

I often think of the Peter Gabriel classic, "San Jacinto" and the words, "hold the line". Something which is impossible, the way we are presently set up to defend.

Martin Mason
165 Posted 10/03/2016 at 08:54:53
Martinez has no money and no budget control, he can't buy paper clips. OK, I'll give him the credit that he may ask for certain players but my bet is that in the EFC set up he is head coach with no financial power at all.
Tony Abrahams
166 Posted 10/03/2016 at 09:06:39
Martin, if he was just a coach, I wouldn't be at all bothered, because I think he is suited to that role, much more than management.

Your reluctance didn't last long there though Mart, because to say he doesn't approve who we buy, just didn't make sense, whatever way you look at it.

Peter Roberts
167 Posted 10/03/2016 at 10:37:30
Enough is enough. It's like having a Formula One car with a great engine but no brakes. Many are just wondering how great we will be when we get brakes, problem is the mechanic just wants to increase the speed.

Had enough. If he was a man who was earning £20k a year and needed this job to pay his mortgage he would have changed. Arrogance, pure and simple.

Martin Mason
168 Posted 10/03/2016 at 13:22:44
Tony, I'm sure he approves who we buy but I'm also sure that he doesn't have the final say. The club buys the players not the manager and the days where managers dictate to the clubs has gone.

What's his title btw? Not a trick question, I'm just interested

Tony Abrahams
169 Posted 10/03/2016 at 19:36:21
Not a trick question? Not even the duke could come up with something that good Martin!!!
Joe Clitherow
170 Posted 11/03/2016 at 21:50:37
Tony (#128 & #164) and John (#99),

Can you please stop posting about whether we should or shouldn't have a defensive coach.

WE HAVE A DEFENSIVE COACH!! Albeit a shit one.

It is Wrexham 'Legend' Dennis Lawrence. It doesn't give your posts – which actually have some good points – much weight that you don't actually know that Martinez already employs a specialist defence coach.

Unbelievable as this may seem.

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