Jagielka: Players must shoulder part of the blame

by | 15/03/2016  45 Comments  [Jump to last]

Phil Jagielka has come to the defence of his manager regarding Everton's disappointing home form in the Premier League, insisting that as the people out on the pitch, the players must bear their share of responsibility for results like the disappointing reverse to West Ham 10 days ago.

Roberto Martinez has come under mounting criticism from supporters and the media alike in the wake of that 3-2 defeat, the Blues' seventh at Goodison Park this season. It was a result that left the club in 12th place, below the likes of West Bromwich Albion and well adrift of the sixth place and qualification for Europe via the League.

His captain, who now has his third FA Cup semi-final to look forward to next month after Saturday's 2-0 win over Chelsea, says that it's not all down to the manager.

"In that position you are judged on how you affect the game and unfortunately, with the way criticisms went and what happened last week, conceding three goals in the last 12 minutes, obviously people were quick to forget we were down to 10 men for the majority of the game," Jagielka says on MailOnline of the Hammers loss.

"Obviously the manager has to take some responsibility because that's his role but to the same extent, we're the people out on the pitch and we have to perform.

"You can't throw all the blame the manager's way, there has to be a pretty even split between him and the players.

"I understand that people will do that, because that's the way football is."

 

Reader Comments (45)

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Jimmy Salt
2 Posted 15/03/2016 at 06:40:56
I obviously did not forget we where down to 10 men... just for the record.
Gordon Crawford
3 Posted 15/03/2016 at 07:18:44
Stop all the talking, Phil, and just do what your paid thousands for.

But here's a fact for you: If we didn't have Rom's goals then we would be in serious trouble. The players and the manager have let us down bigtime this season and last.

I do hope we win the cup. But it won't take away from the bitter taste of disappointment that I feel when I look at our league position. Starting next season, no one's position should be safe at Everton.

Liam Reilly
4 Posted 15/03/2016 at 07:20:28
Interesting that he's saying 50/50 here, that would suggest that the players didn't rate the tactics or subs either.

I agree with Big Neville, that RM needs to invest in a proven defensive coach to see if he can turn the tide. If not, it's adios amigo...

There's a lot riding on the remaining games for RM.


Ian Burns
5 Posted 15/03/2016 at 08:03:43
I wonder if RM will be happy taking half of the blame? He has been blaming luck; referees; linesmen; players for missing penalties etc. This will come as a shock to him to think the players are blaming him for 50% of the problems we are having in the league!
Craig Fletcher
6 Posted 15/03/2016 at 08:13:43
To be fair to RM, he obviously learned from his West Ham substitutions in the Chelsea game. There were no needless subs around the 70 minute mark (in fact, when Lukaku scored Martinez was in the process of readying Deulofeu to come on – he quickly reversed his decision after the goal). Stones replaced an attacker just before 90 minutes as we went into defensive mode, then we ran the clock down after 90 by bringing on another defensive player (Besic) for Lennon I think.

Also it looked through the game we were mixing it up a bit more than usual, playing more long balls up to Rom (not sure if there are any stats to back that up, that was just my impression). Hopefully we are becoming a bit more tactically flexible, and not so predictable to play against.

Brin Williams
7 Posted 15/03/2016 at 08:17:42
Does this mean around 5% per player and 50% manager – that's a lot of blame!!
Ernie Baywood
9 Posted 15/03/2016 at 08:33:34
Liam, exactly what I took from this. You'd expect everyone to be coming out defending each other and taking responsibility. That's the usual team approach.

Here is our captain saying that the manager takes his share of the blame... presumably for his decisions during the game. I honestly don't think I've seen a player do that before.

Trevor Peers
10 Posted 15/03/2016 at 08:35:25
This is progress, of course the players must share their portion of blame for our disastrous home form, as long as the manager takes his share of responsibility as well, so far he hasn't.

Maybe with the new owner coming in, there has been a power shift away from Roberto and he is being made more accountable for his record at GP. That would be a welcome change if it were true. The remaining fixtures should determine Roberto's fate.

Jim Bennings
11 Posted 15/03/2016 at 08:56:37
The defence (West Ham excluded) has looked more organized since Jagielka has returned, Funes Mori seems far more comfortable alongside him than he did John Stones.

It's great to be going to Wembley but we can't afford to lose at home to Arsenal on Saturday given how poor our home record has been plus the fact we are slipping down the table further.

We can't have a terrible end to the league season just in case we don't win the Cup. We are hinging this season on Cup success now but if we don't win it then it becomes a shocking season again doesn't it?

Jim Potter
12 Posted 15/03/2016 at 09:08:59
Of course the players have to take responsibility.

Win the FA Cup and I'll be happy. 21 years is a looooong time. It'll mean the world to our young fans.

Would it gloss over the cracks – no. But it would be fantastic to feel a winner again – and to see an open top tour.

I hope Man Utd win the replay. They are demoralised and shite. The Hammers would be tougher. Still, we're favourites come what may.

Jim Bennings
13 Posted 15/03/2016 at 09:15:56
It's all about opinions but I'll stick my neck out here and say I'd take finishing 14th IF, and I mean IF, we win the Cup.

I wouldn't be happy with finishing 14th but I'd take it for one season of Cup success.

I would class that a season to look back on rather than finishing 10th and losing the Semi or Final.

Nobody wants to remember a season like that, yet everyone wants a trophy, I don't care what club you support, everyone wants silverware.

It's high time Everton ended this drought and a new generation saw what it was like for an Everton player to lift the FA Cup once more.

I think we still have to take the league seriously and be professional though for the reasons I state in my first post, we can't guarantee Cup success so we need to keep our levels high in the league.

We don't want to finish 14th with no trophy.

Ernie Baywood
14 Posted 15/03/2016 at 09:27:05
May 95 remains one of the happiest times of my life. So, yes, if you offered the Cup and 14th I would take it just for that feeling.

But that's not the offer is it? It's not a trade off. It's not like we've particularly been sacrificing the league for the cups.

14th and a cup would feel great. Better than 7th or so and another year with no trophy. But it won't particularly represent progress.

Jim Bennings
15 Posted 15/03/2016 at 09:52:09
I know Ernie.

It's a sensitive subject with many fan's preferring league positions over a trophy but for me the only league positions I'd ever accept are the top 4 and the only position I would take ahead of a Cup would be finishing 1st.

Christy Ring
16 Posted 15/03/2016 at 10:12:43
After listening to Jagielka's comments, and even admitting that Martinez has to take 50% of the blame, tells us that there must have been a discussion between the squad and Martinez about tactics, instead of ridiculous substitutions, after the hammers result.

Against Chelsea, he had Deulofeu warming up, but after Lukaku scored,on came Stones and Besic instead, a complete change in Martinez mindset, changing to a defensive mode.

Colin Malone
17 Posted 15/03/2016 at 10:15:30
Rom has to be an angry player for 90 minutes not 20 minutes.

No defensive coach can make any difference. We have to go to a 4-5-1, when seeing the game out. You can do it in a matter of seconds.

Ernie Baywood
18 Posted 15/03/2016 at 10:17:44
Nothing wrong with taking feedback from your players or anyone else. It would represent strength rather than weakness. Bobby doesn't seem to have always had that view.

Not enough evidence yet to say that's changed.

Does anyone know who Deulofeu was coming on for?

Jim Potter
19 Posted 15/03/2016 at 10:38:31
Robles?
Si Turner
20 Posted 15/03/2016 at 10:52:55
Jim (13) you are spot on.

I too would be content finishing in a lower league position providing we win the cup.

I think once we win a cup our team is capable of pushing on next season challenging for top 6 as well as the cup competitions (which would include Europa League) if we win the cup.

Don Alexander
21 Posted 15/03/2016 at 11:06:05
Brilliant, Jim Potter!

An average of two points per game for the rest of the season and a cup win would prove to me that a more professional approach has at last somehow burrowed into the tiny mind of our touchline charley with the folded arms.

Jim Bennings
22 Posted 15/03/2016 at 11:15:25
I also think winning this Cup this year is a very important moment for many of the guys who have been here long term.

It could be the likes of Jagielka or Leighton Baines last opportunity at winning some silverware and having a medal to look back on.

It was a shame long term servants like Tim Cahill, Mikel Arteta, to name a few never got a winners medal at Everton.

I hope Jags, Baines don't miss out.

Barry Pearce
23 Posted 15/03/2016 at 11:17:57
Martinez hopefully will have learnt you can't always go gun Ho. There are times when you do the sensible thing to see the game out. To protect what we have.

I was about to go bonkers on Saturday when I saw Gerry being readied to come on. So I won't hold my breath that this will always be the case.

Andrew Burns
24 Posted 15/03/2016 at 11:32:28
It was a great goal by Lukaku on Saturday , however I thought the game was not really so great. There was more grit and determination from the players but the game was crying out for changes already after 55 minutes.

We will never know (thankfully) who was coming off for Deulofeu on the 70th minute but, as I mentioned, a change should have been made a lot earlier. I was hoping for maybe Besic for McCarthy or Barry and maybe Deulofeu for Lennon. I gazed at the bench for almost 20 minutes without seeing any sign of a change. This is worrying!

Anthony Dwyer
25 Posted 15/03/2016 at 11:40:12
Phil Jags seems to be dishing blame out everywhere at the minute.

Currently it's a 50/50 split between players and manager, last week it was all Rom's fault for not converting his penalty.

I love Jags but I am wishing he would button it as far as his media comment go, whilst actually gaining a voice on the pitch when the players need him most. He also needs to speak to referees more as at times I struggle to see our captain involved during any major talking points.

Look at Kompany at Man City, Terry at Chelsea, even that clown Henderson at the Red Shite, all have something to say about everything the ref decides on. It's always been the way with the successful clubs like Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal in the past plus Gerrard spent more of the game next to a ref rabbiting his ear off too. Williams at Swansea is at it, Noble doesn't shut up at West ham, can't help but feel we area bit to nice in that department.

Tony Abrahams
26 Posted 15/03/2016 at 11:44:20
It's so much easier to say these things after a big win. But if as he says, it's a 50/50, between the players and the manager, then my guess would be that there has been a lot of talking going on behind closed doors.

I've always thought the cup should help a team push on in the league and I expect us to gradually start climbing the table now.

Only one game, but winning breeds confidence, and a good run in the league, will surely prepare us better for the semi final in April. Let's hope so.

Phil Walling
27 Posted 15/03/2016 at 11:48:01
If they all talked less and left the 'blame-game' to us on ToffeeWeb, they would be seen in a better light. This comment by Jags is asinine and superfluous!
Ian Burns
28 Posted 15/03/2016 at 11:56:04
50% blame – who me? Jags you are benched for Saturday.
Jim Potter
30 Posted 15/03/2016 at 12:12:22
Phil – if they read TW, they'd be so scared, they'd never leave their nuclear bunkers!
Peter Gorman
31 Posted 15/03/2016 at 12:27:39
As much as I'm sure we'd all love to win a cup, finishing 14th would be a total disgrace by any reasonable measure of our ability and not enough to keep the man in the job.

Only hypothetical I know but how can anyone say they'd be happy with that? Is it a case of being just passed caring this season?

Ed Fitzgerald
32 Posted 15/03/2016 at 13:43:05
Both the players and the manager are equally to blame for the poor home performances in the league as they are to be equally praised for an exceptional away record.

Away from home the players do look more relaxed and are cheered on by vociferous support from 1st minute to last, at home it's not quite the same atmosphere is it?

Then consider last Saturday a great atmosphere and a great performance for the team. The team and manager need out support.

We have reached two semi finals this season and we are still in with a chance of a top half finish, hardly a disaster, if we win the cup then it's been a highly successful season

Harold Matthews
33 Posted 15/03/2016 at 14:53:39
At least they all know it was an absolute disgrace.
Mark Andersson
34 Posted 15/03/2016 at 15:29:05
I blame the manager, simple. The players are trying to defuse a time bomb that will explode as soon as we have another bad loss and performance.

The home support was brilliant on Saturday, because from the get go, Aaron Lennon got stuck in and like last season it rubbed off on the fans and players alike.

This stinks of a Billy boy chat to his captain. Lose to Arsenal and the bomb will start ticking, lose to the red shite and it will explode.

Oh and don't give me any excuses about rearranged games just before the semi. If were ever in Europe again you have to be prepared for two games. No excuses Bobby, win WIN WIN . Come on Everton fans make every game like the Chelsea game so that the players and manager cant blame us.

William Cartwright
35 Posted 15/03/2016 at 15:37:54
I will never, ever defend pestering and trying to intimidate the referee to influence decisions under any circumstances.

The problem lies amidst multi-cultural, multi lingual cross communication in a heightened tension situation. The only rational solution is to follow the example of rugby union with technical supports as appropriate and various options such as sin bins, time outs etc to be considered.

Also there must be a higher standard of referring across the board. it should be as elitist a job as playing with only the best being used. Same applies also for linesmen, probably more so as they seem to make more critical off-side errors than is reasonably acceptable. The referree and linesman working relationship needs to be re-evaluated in consideration of the massively increasing availability of technology and commercial interests attached to football (and many other sports . . . . . . )

Everyone wants a level playing-field (in theory) but a major issue is the confrontational nature of the coverage. Without the confrontational aspects then the lively, interesting debates that emerge are potentially lost, and with it some of the drama and the entertainment factor is reduced. Obviously there must be a good balance.

However arguing or hassling the referee is not the answer. It's like encouraging people to queue jump, or accept the logic that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Where on earth is the intelligence in that, to say nothing concept of the of good behavior.

In this argument think Everton are miles ahead of other teams trying to respect a code of behavior and I applaud and support Roberto 100% in his stance. What has upset him and a majority of Evertonians, is the emergence this season of a statistically embarrassing gaffes by the custodians of the game which on retrospective analysis have massively benefited the media favorites and therein lies another dimension of the problem.

No quick fixes in sight yet but please do not take the simple minded short sighted bigoted option. Leave that to the Redshites, Chelski and Kevin Nolan. Thankfully it is not the Everton way, nor should it be.

Tony Waring
36 Posted 15/03/2016 at 15:56:34
I agree with you, William. The so-called big teams spend as much time irritating the ref as actually playing the game! If I was in charge of referees, I'd instruct them to ignore any of this play-acting and allow the free kick to be taken immediately even if the opponents are "not ready". Once they'd been caught out they would think twice about doing it again. We also need more and better refs and linesmen.
Dave Abrahams
37 Posted 15/03/2016 at 16:24:56
William (#35) everything you say is ethically and morally correct. I think you are old school, like me, and I would find it very hard to go against your argument because I think it is the correct and only way to play: except teams who play this way will unfortunately win nothing.

It stinks, like I pointed out on another thread last week. You will be applauded and given pats on the back but little else.

William, I love your world because it is my world as well but that world is long gone, unfortunately.

Paul Andrews
38 Posted 15/03/2016 at 17:21:25
Tony Abrahams, the players and manager have had a couple of clear- the-air meetings over the last weeks. If they both take on board each other's thoughts we will be a better side. Senior pros got into the manager re our defensive priorities. Hopefully he accepts their valid point and acts on it. Looking at the Chelsea game, it looks like he has.

Dave Abrahams, it is annoying the way players feign injury to get fellow players booked. Also the way they scream in refs' faces. Unfortunately, if you don't do it, you are treated worse, decision-wise, than the teams that do it.

It pains me to say it, if you can't beat them you have to join them.

Denis Richardson
39 Posted 15/03/2016 at 18:00:54
It's all good and well doing the talking but how about doing the walking? Players obviously play the game and not the manager but the manager is in charge of training, tactics and team selection. Since Stones has been taken out we've improved defensively to some extent, since Howard has gone, same again. Both changes mentioned on TW months (not weeks) before they were eventually made.

Personally, if offered the following today;

- 17th place in the league
- FA Cup win
- New manager in the summer

I'd gnarl off whoever's arm is doing the offering.

League for us is over and done with, whether we finish 10th or 15th is neither here nor there (other than prize money). Grand scheme of things it counts for fuck all. Main thing is to at least give the paying punters at GP something to cheer about from now till May – as well as the cup of course.

A cup win would finally mean we can dust off the trophy cabinet and gets us into Europe at the same time (not important for some on here but is for me anyway).

The FA Cup semi-final is a while off; let's see what the manager and players can pull off against the Arse. There's no real pressure on the players in the league anymore so it wouldn't surprise me if we get a result.

Max Murphy
40 Posted 15/03/2016 at 18:08:07
Jagielka is a piss awful captain. No authority, no galvanising team spirit, no voice and an average player. Talking to the media instead of doing it on the pitch is a sign of weakness. I will be glad to see the back of him and the manager.
William Cartwright
41 Posted 15/03/2016 at 18:29:11
Dave (37) Your comments appreciated. Yes those days are long gone but they were good while they lasted!

Mind you, I do see a future for the increased technology aspects as the full impact of 'Aps' and such like are bound to come in soon.

Also the instant play back for the off-sides must be close, and I suspect micro-chipped balls (the leather variety), and players boots will be possible too. A more sophisticated version of goal line technology if you will...

I'm all for the future, with technology able to reinforce the old school values!

Tony Abrahams
42 Posted 15/03/2016 at 19:30:20
Paul Andrews, that's good to know, and not before time, I might add. Funny how Baines, developed a bad ankle after the City game, when I'm sure their would have been a lot of discontent.

Paul, it would have to happen for a good length of time, before I think lessons have been learned, but a better defensive shape, is a good place to start.

Do think we suffer offensively, when we play Cleverley out wide, but the alternative, doesn't work, and hopefully now, the manager knows it.

Finally, I do hope we turn the triangle round, and let Barkley, and Besic, play in front of McCarthy, this Saturday. If we have good shape, in the wide positions, I'm sure this will work, and what a sub Gerry will be, once the game is stretched.

Dave Abrahams
43 Posted 15/03/2016 at 19:37:37
William (#41), Yes, refs – although a lot of them are poor – do need all the assistance they can get. They only have split-seconds to make a decision and they are certainly not helped by all the cheating that goes on with a large majority of players.

Yes, William, it was great while it lasted and I too long for yesteryear and the the much higher standards that prevailed in those times In most aspects of life.

Paul Andrews
44 Posted 15/03/2016 at 20:10:34
I agree Tony on both points. He needs to defend tightly consistently, while trying to keep our good scoring record.

We are unbalanced on the left of the three behind the forward. Mirallas looks the best bet out of the squad, but as you know he has one good game in three.

Tony Abrahams
45 Posted 15/03/2016 at 21:22:03
Agree with you about Mirallas, Paul, but something just dawned on me. With him, Barkley, Deulofoe, and Lukaku. That's four genuine, on their day, match winners. It's been a long time mate, it's been a very long time!
Don Alexander
46 Posted 16/03/2016 at 00:32:38
Like Dave and William above, I abhor the cheating culture that seems to now be necessary for success. Phil Jagielka has never shirked a challenge in his life, never failed to try to get some part of his anatomy in the way of a shot, and has been, like Labby (RIP), of Corinthian spirit throughout his career. <{P>I think he deserves huge respect from our fans. It ain't his fault he's captain, and these qualities are seemingly meaningless in this day and age.
John Beesley
47 Posted 16/03/2016 at 21:48:11
Why is anyone to blame and not West Ham playing well in the last 10 mins against 10 men!

And the same true for all the other close draws and defeats that we have suffered. If it was Man Utd, Everton or Liverpool of yesteryear, commentators would be saying that they always play right up until the final whistle has gone... and what a great team they are.

John Beesley
48 Posted 16/03/2016 at 21:52:03
After all, it is a very competitive league with a lot of good teams in it who have all invested a lot of money not just on players but coaches, sports psychologists, dieticians, fitness coaches and what not. It is just not as easy to win as it used to be.

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