Everton trio play but England fall to Dutch

by | 29/03/2016  98 Comments  [Jump to last]
England 1 - 2 Netherlands
England finished with all three Everton representatives on the pitch but Roy Hodgson's team followed their rousing win in Germany with a home defeat to the Netherlands at Wembley.

Ross Barkley and John Stones were handed the opportunity to impress by Roy Hodgson as he weighs up his options for Euro2016 this summer while Phil Jagielka was on the bench again after sitting out the 3-2 win in Germany.

With Barkley having come on as a second-half substitute in that match in Berlin and played a role in England's second goal, this evening's chance was more important to Stones who also has to win his place back in Everton's side.

The defender has started just one game since returning from a hamstring injury picked up in January.

It was Barkley who perhaps caught the eye more in the first half, bouncing a right-foot shot just wide a few minutes but it was a Stones pass that started a brilliant passing move that ended with Jamie Vardy converting from in front of the Dutch goal put England 1-0 up shortly before half time.

The Netherlands drew level early in the second half, however. A Stones slip in his own box wasn't immediately punished but the same Dutch attack leads to a penalty scored by Jansen.

Stones almost made amends a few minutes later with a slide-rule pass that played in Theo Walcott but the Arsenal forward's shot was blocked.

Jagielka came on with 20 minutes to go to partner his Everton teammate Stones in central defence and he was involved in controversy surrounding the visitors' second goal. The Everton man appeared to be shoved over illegally by Jansen but the referee allowed the striker to play on an centre for Narsingh to drive home from an unmarked position.

England: Forster, Walker, Rose (Clyne), Smalling (Jagielka), Stones, Drinkwater (Dier), Barkley, Milner (Alli), Lallana (Kane), Vardy, Sturridge (Walcott)

 


Reader Comments (98)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Andrew James
1 Posted 29/03/2016 at 19:42:40
Lallana?!

Just to confirm, once and for all – he's the most over hyped, ineffectual player England have?

Andrew Laird
2 Posted 29/03/2016 at 19:58:00
Andrew, I will raise your Lallana with Raheem Sterling....

Or James "alright at most things... great at nothing" Milner....

Or Theo "I have only ever scored double figures for Arsenal once in 10 years and I have the touch of Edward Gein" Walcott......

Ian Bennett
3 Posted 29/03/2016 at 20:48:34
England just scored from an intelligent ball from Stones to find the space. He was unlucky with a left-footed shot too.
Colin Glassar
4 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:00:57
Brilliant, defence-splitting pass from Stonesy to set up the England goal. Ross sometimes looks like he's got lead in his shoes but.... then he explodes and is unplayable.
Christopher Dover
5 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:03:55
Well here they go again saying Stones should be allowed to make mistakes as they are learning and he can make a pass from the back.

He is a very good player but would like to here there comments if he helps concede a goal by losing it in the penalty area, also before I get slated the reason he gets stick is he does get in trouble often when in a blue shirt and he does not seem to learn from his mistakes, when he does he will make a big improvement in his game.

Joe Foster
6 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:11:35
Shouldn't need to wait too long, Christopher.
Christopher Dover
7 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:11:52
Oops.
Joe Foster
8 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:14:28
Yep, Stones has done a Stonsey.
Dave Abrahams
9 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:15:07
Christopher (5) sssshhhh!
David Hallwood
10 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:15:33
My problem with Stones is not the occasional mistake, it's his positional play. I think he'll be better as the spare man in a 3 at the back formation.
Michael Kenrick
11 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:15:34
I have to admit, Christopher, you and they are right, unfortunately. I love Stones but he does linger, he makes slips, he's almost too confident for his own good.
David Hallwood
12 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:16:59
BTW, the Dutch goalie looks okay...
Michael Kenrick
13 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:24:13
Beautiful forward play from Stones, moving with style through the midfield and a fantastic pass to the feet of Walcott, laid on a plate. I love this boy.
Michael Kenrick
14 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:24:57
I was thinking that, David. Zoet. Great name!!!
Christopher Dover
15 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:25:57
Well, Stones did not make a mistake, he slipped; can happen to anyone....
David Hallwood
16 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:26:06
We could do with a Z in the side, Michael.
Andrew James
17 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:26:14
Andrew Laird

You overlooked Danny "always crocked" Welbeck, Jack "always smoking" Wilshere, and anybody English who plays well on their debut for Man Utd.

Trevor Peers
18 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:29:50
The Dutch keeper we're after is Jasper Cillessen, I think.
David Hallwood
19 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:31:36
3 blues on... shades of '86.

BTW, although I love Rom, I'd swap him for Kane in a heartbeat.

Joe Foster
20 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:33:11
Barkley is having a good game.
Ian Smitham
21 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:39:02
Interesting for those who say Ross won't tackle. First twenty minutes of the second half he has given away three fouls tackling back.
James Stewart
22 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:40:06
Interesting that Stones plays left side for England and Jags on the right. Reverse of what they do for us.
Terry Riley
23 Posted 29/03/2016 at 21:52:57
Jag's is fat again.
Dave Abrahams
24 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:00:09
Ian (19),

I think they mean for Everton!!!!!!

Zahir Jaffer
25 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:04:13
Headlines

Toffees gift Dutch a couple of sweet treats.

Toffees defenders give two sour goals away

Stones slips out of pecking order

Everton defence too soft and sweet for England

England chew on bitter disappointment as toffees fail to bear fruit.

Paul Andrews
27 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:07:00
A schoolboy error from John Stones.

You are taught when you are starting to play as a young boy, don't try to beat a man if you are last man.

Steve Pugh
28 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:09:17
Dave #23 raises the question why? Is he told not to tackle back for Everton to save his energy?
Tony Hill
29 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:13:03
I thought Barkley did well, good stamina, rarely wasted a ball, a couple of strong runs. He still just needs that extra zip of confidence. The Alli fanboys will try to do him down but I would play the two of them together.

As for Stones, he'll be fine and I hope Mr Moshiri can keep him with us. I am beginning to think that we will hold on to him.

Ray Roche
31 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:15:59
Stones showed yet again what I've said for months:-

He can play as a defensive midfielder, carrying the ball out and with the vision and brain to make a killer pass.

James Flynn
33 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:17:19
See anyone on the Dutch team who might be a good fit for Everton?
Eddie Dunn
36 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:17:26
Milner was a total waste of space, and Hoddle almost gave MotM to bloody Lallana, who flattered to deceive once more. He looks lively but runs into others' space regularly, even taking it off Barkley's toe to put it high and wide. If you are going to nick it off your mate after he has done all the work, then you really have to pop it in the onion bag.

Stones has a balance problem, he slips over too often and once on the run, his technique lets him down and he lets the ball get away from him. And tonight he almost injured himself. I have seen him do the same for us several times.

Walcott just showed why he will not make the squad.

Phil Walling
37 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:18:27
Christopher @ 14:

How many runs and great balls out of defence make up for tarrying on the ball and falling on your arse when the goalie's calling for it? Thus resulting in giving away a goal.

Couldn't help slipping? Tell Stevie G that one!

Charlie Burnett
38 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:20:33
Barkley had a good game. I didn't think he would be on the same pitch as Alli when he come on.

@14 Stones did make a mistake; the mistake was he should've played it back to the keeper and pulled to the side to create space to receive the ball back. A little one-two around the striker would've been and looked better that what he tried. I don't believe he has been taught this; I believe he just thinks he's better and don't want to listen.

A centre-back that likes to drive forward and has an eye for a through ball or a pass opening up the defence but does make the odd mistake is it only me that is screaming out for him to be a defensive central midfielder.

Andrew James
39 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:23:18
Apparently according to R5 Live Baines doesn't go despite being the best the best left back when fit. Jermain Jenas just said England had Wayne Bridge and Ashley Cole to choose from for years...? Wayne Bridge wasn't fit to lace Leighton's boots! The luckiest left back going as rich clubs would buy him and he'd often not play and be on ridiculous sums.

Jags doesn't go despite being superior to Cahill and Smalling and our own Stones at the moment.

And apparently no England player can dribble but Wilshere can. Jack Wilshere is well known for being light weight, a good passer but not quick or skilful enough to regularly dribble. Barkley can't dribble of course...

We get mugged off by everyone and I blame Martinez because our current league standing means the likes of one-season wonder Spurs are suddenly believing the hype.

Ray Smith
40 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:23:41
Most of the first team squad played for their respective countries or were in the squads tonight.

If Roy Hodgson can pick 3 players from a team sitting 12th in the Premier League and use them effectively (I appreciate we lost), why are we where we are? Simple – a manager who can't mould a team.

When did so many Everton players represent their countries in our current position? Not sure how many, but probably double figures.

Perhaps Martinez should seek advice from international managers! But you know the answer to that one.

Jim Hardin
41 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:24:12
So someone tell me how a player who only really looks good going forward is playing a key centre-back role. Dier can move to the holding midfield spot but Stones, for all his "potential" and skills, is unable to play the spot? Seems perfectly made for his skill set and who wouldn't enjoy watching him get forward and pass or cross the ball in, both of which he is capable of doing with effect. I would take Stones to get by most midfielders trying to stop him in the Premier League.

Collymore on the radio said Stones is so good going forward but, when he is on, the other defenders have to remember this, and be prepared to clean up his mistakes. Should he really be a centre-back then?

Daniel Lawrence
42 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:24:47
So Jags gets bundled off the ball for what is a clear free kick that leads to the second goal and yet doesn't even get within 20 yards of the ref to complain...

The man really has no backbone for captaincy.

Ian Smitham
43 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:28:54
Steve (#27), quite my point, though as I posted the other night, I would prefer he was not getting involved in some 50/50s with giant bruisers, rather he conceded the ball but pressed the opponent and the space.

My observation tonight was to note that he will tackle or at least try and, as Dave points out, less so at Everton, and (as Dave also notes) I wonder why?

Dave Pritchard
45 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:31:10
Daniel, watch it again and you will see Jags complaining.
Jon Cox
46 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:32:55
Ray,

If only. I'm 58 and I still wanna party.....

As far as Stonsey goes, I need to buy him a big conical hat like a traffic cone with a big fuckin' "D" written on it. Cos, when he has to make a decision then £60k a week is far to much for this guy.

I'm sure the faithful will kill me for this but I see this as the dumbing down of our beloved younger generation..

Like many of our younger players, he can't make an in-play decision and get it right!

Andrew Clare
47 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:35:12
Our defenders are like a magnet to misfortune.
Colin Glassar
49 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:40:53
Well a few things to consider, Roy:

1) Why change a winning team?
2) Why insist on playing your beloved, average Liverpool players – Milner, Lallana, Clyne etc,..?
3) Have the balls to pick your own players. Drinkwater and Walcott aren't good enough.

Vince Furnier
51 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:52:40
Andrew Clare,

I was going to say exactly the same thing. I missed the postmatch interviews though. Did Roy Hodgson say that they were still phenomenal?

Tom Bowers
53 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:55:43
You just knew this result was coming after the Germany game. It's like watching Everton coming back home and blowing it. However, it was still a nothing game except for a few players to impress for the Euro squad and of course Hodgson never lets us down with his RedShite bias.

Generally, England didn't get up a head of steam until they went behind to a very bad refereeing no-call. Hard to make a judgement on Stonesy as he has everything it takes to become a permanent fixture but at the moment looks like a liability. Perhaps he is not quite focused after all the hype about Chelski's big attempt to lure him and his losing his place at Everton this season but, whatever it is, he has not progressed as we all thought.

Barkley had a steady game but agree that Lallana, Milner and Sturridge were not impressive.

The bottom line is that England will achieve little at the Euros.

Ray Roche
54 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:59:25
Jon (#58)? Still time, then, eh? I must admit that I like Stones and think he'd do better when/if we get rid of Martinez and install a manager who knows what he's doing.

You party on!

Andrew James
55 Posted 29/03/2016 at 22:59:48
Roy is a poor manager.

We'll go to France and be taught a footballing lesson again. We might progress from the group stage but he hasn't the ability to set a team up or fire it up for any better. Our players are not all bad, we do have a good first 11 but maybe not much else.

There's too much favouritism of players who have consistently been over hyped, trust in Sky darlings and a complete lack of sending them out to deliver.

It's as if the FA have a philosophy which is "uninspire-fail-dissemble-repeat".

That's what you get when you hire the former manager of Fulham and West Brom who failed at the RS despite having a fortune to spend.

Ste Traverse
56 Posted 29/03/2016 at 23:15:53
50-odd posts on an England game and not yet the usual cry-arsers whinging about Liverpool players supposedly refusing to pass to our players.

Must be some kind of record...

Peter McHugh
57 Posted 29/03/2016 at 23:18:16
No left side.

Stones continues to fuck around and be lightweight in defence. Barkley plays well – not brilliant.

That said, surely both these players should be in the team. Seriously, are Henderson, Milner or Lallana a patch on Barkley? Same goes for Smalling and Cahill – Roy even plays Phil Jones when he can!!

I can understand not playing Baines although we have no quality at left back and personally I would have him in the squad at least. Jags I would leave at home.

Steavey Buckley
58 Posted 29/03/2016 at 23:20:06
James Milner, Henderson and Lallana have had a poor season with Liverpool, and Jakielka and Stones not much better, yet, they are all playing for England. So I don't see much hope for England in France.

England will probably beat Russia in the first group game and eventually qualify into the knock-out stages, but once the big boys appear, England will be outclassed sooner or later.

The team that Hodgson put out tonight was short on class and width, while expecting strikers to score goals with little or no service – one decent cross throughout the game for Varny to score from.

Anthony Dwyer
59 Posted 29/03/2016 at 23:47:20
Ross will never take that Number 10 role with performances like that.

I'm a big fan of Ross, but he has to be forced to play. This season, he has done much better for us, mainly down to the likes of Barry forcing him onto the ball. At international level, that simply won't happen unless you are at the very highest level; Ross is not.

The above is not a dig, only players like Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar and Zidane will have that undisputed respect of his team mates, were they look to that particular player to be the maestro.

Ross should have seen the performance of Alli the other day and decided to grab the game by the scruff of its neck, but he did not. Ross showed moments of quality, but they were few and far between. He should have been telling Drinkwater to give him the ball at every given chance, run to the wide players to tell them he wanted the ball, basically, dictate the game.

I feel Ross is well capable of the above, but he simply doesn't have the balls to do it.

He looks passive, he looks like someone who is simply happy with being selected as a bit-part player, a flash in the pan, a super sub.

He will go the Euros, he will probably do well, but he could do so much more.

The one thing that I do feel for Ross a little is, he was played in a 2-man midfield, which is something he hasn't done all season. Alli had his preferred roll behind one striker whereas Ross had a more disciplined roll.

John Stones looked assured only for his little slip, that was just unfortunate. He dwelled on the ball once or twice, but in general he looked a better prospect than most we have at centre-back.

Jags and Baines will probably miss out, Jags may go as a token gesture, but I think Baines could play every game for us from now til the end of the season, assist and score a goal every game, whilst keeping clean sheets, and still not be selected. He's always seemingly been a black sheep, don't understand why like, but for me, that's how it is. I will say Rose played well in both games, he would be my preferred choice over Bertrand and Gibbs, but I feel none of these left backs can lace Baines's boots, even now.

Andy Crooks
60 Posted 29/03/2016 at 23:53:26
I thought Barkley was excellent and Stones looked good apart from the slip. I still believe both will be world class and I'm glad they play for us.
Christopher Dover
61 Posted 29/03/2016 at 23:53:41
Phil 36. I wasn't supporting Stones see previous comments, I was just being a bit sarcastic as that is what Hoddle said, he slipped!

Only later did they actually acknowledge that he slipped because he was trying to turn with the ball instead of the the simple pass back to goalkeeper who could have cleared the ball

Anthony Dwyer
62 Posted 29/03/2016 at 23:53:47
Over the RedShite players, I honestly feel none of them are anywhere near good enough, and massively over-thought of.

Clyne is okay, not on Walker's level; Milner, like Henderson, are both average at best, just players whose faces seem to fit with Woy. Lallana is nowhere near the level; he is an attacking midfielder who should only play central as he's not quick enough to play wide. Alli, Ross and Rooney are streets ahead of him.

I can't understand why v Germany we had Henderson taking all the corners and free kicks, whilst against Holland, Milner was given this duty.

Since when did they become dead-ball specialist?

Woy has to get his tongue out of the hoop of his RedShite entourage.

Don Alexander
63 Posted 30/03/2016 at 00:50:30
John Stones goofed, again, and it cost a goal, again. He seems captive to his ego and he is already too old as a pro footballer for this to continue. I accept that that same ego provides opportunities for him to display a real ability as a ball player but to describe his pass in the England goal as "defence splitting" is a joke. Good, yes, but that's it. Credit to him for a much better pass to Walcott in fairness. Shame is though, even if he consistently delivers good passes the consistency he's displaying all this season for the occasional cock-up makes the value of his total contribution questionable to say the least.

As me and others have said, Ross just doesn't seem to have the innate desire to be a great. That's not to say he's not worth a place in the Everton team but those playing with him need to know it'll have to be them, and not him, to grab a game by the scruff of the neck. I hope we sign someone soon with the No 10 capacity to provide what all successful teams need. Mentally he's patently not up to the very highest level and he too is far from being a sprog these days.

I don't want either of them sold but I really really want them, and others, to get the advice/coaching of a top-notch manager so that they and our club go on to potential greatness.

Dick Fearon
64 Posted 30/03/2016 at 00:51:57
By time Martinez has finished with messing about with the minds of Stones and Barkley, they will be playing non-league football. If they are lucky!
Mark Wilson
65 Posted 30/03/2016 at 00:54:06
Really strange stuff some of these comments re Stones. He's somehow managed to have gone from being a £38m world class centre-back to... well, being worth a helluva lot less and quite frankly poor. How anyone can praise him after this season for club or now country, I just don't know. I feel for the lad, I honestly do. He's in a terrible run of form, looks like someone with zero confidence... he actually looks incredibly nervous and it's clear that tonight he knew the extent of his "trial by Hodgson".

Only at Everton could we see such a demise in such a short space of time. If he goes to the Euros, it will be for reasons that are a huge mystery.... because his form is so far off international competition class, it's not true.

Such a shame but, from our selfish point of view, we have to hope there's a miracle and he rediscovers his class and his confidence ahead of Sunday's visit to Man Utd... though, after tonight, I'm not sure he can replace a similarly shaken Funes Mori, who's coming off the back of a couple of awful games.

Where Stones went from world beater to nervous liability, I'm not quite sure, but it's strange as everything you saw of him until last October-ish was so positive, maybe the injury impacted more than we thought... maybe that "Calm down, calm down" moment and the reaction to it affected the lad more than has been discussed. Whatever it is, I'd love to see him back, less jaunty but less error prone. Could he really move positions to defensive midfield?

Anthony Dwyer
66 Posted 30/03/2016 at 01:28:26
John Stones is a top young talent defender, he's full of confidence, and loves to prove he's good enough to take chances.

People seem to forget that John has gone from a decent prospect to a future England captain who is a must for the Euros, all inside 7 months.

Ffs, cut the lad some slack, he's quality, and he's ours.

I for one am proud to have Stonesy at Everton.

Jay Wood
67 Posted 30/03/2016 at 01:29:33
I'm a big John Stones fan, but I thought he lacked the assured edge he has mostly displayed in his career to date.

Make no mistake, this is a test for the young man, how he bounces back from the first serious setback and loss of form and confidence since he came to everyone's attention.

I believe he will. We need Stones at his best, possibly as early as this weekend. Why? Because Funes Mori is not in the Argentina side tonight, not even listed among the 11 subs on the bench. Injured...?

William Cartwright
68 Posted 30/03/2016 at 02:41:59
BBC / Sky media in love with and drooling over the RedShites and analysing the Everton players as if they are unwelcome, homeless gatecrashers...

What the fuck is going on between the the media and Everton FC?

Moshiri should appoint a media savvy representative urgently. Seriously, This is costing us image-related money and undermining the club big time now. It has gone way past personal, it has become institutionalized and must be addressed.

Alan J Thompson
71 Posted 30/03/2016 at 03:40:47
Stonesy seems to be fast becoming another Mervyn Day. Everyone said what a great keeper until Cloughie pointed out that you could almost bank on him giving away almost a goal a game.
Jay Harris
72 Posted 30/03/2016 at 05:14:06
Totally agree with William Cartright.

The Manchester and London based media seem to have an agenda against EFC and pundits generally talk in derogatory tones about our players.

Apart from the slip, Stones played as well as anybody tonight and he certainly didn't trip a Dutch player up in the area or put his hand out to give a penalty away.

Do we see anyone criticising Danny Rose? No... but they are all over John Stones.

I am also sick about hearing Delle Alli being shoved down everyone's throats. Anyone would think he's the new Pele.

David Chait
73 Posted 30/03/2016 at 05:26:27
Smalling and Stones should be the starting centre-back pairing in every game. They are clearly a cut above the others, including Jags. I don't buy that Stones has suddenly gone from being a must starter to a liability in 6 months. If anything, time with England will help him learn to counter the Martinez factor.

Barkley was the best midfielder today, including Alli after he came on. Anyone note Alli lose the ball in a very dangerous area which got Holland into our box? Barkley would have been called out for that horribly.

Barkley played his role well; no mistakes... but didn't dominate or harass the opposition except for one storming run. Not as upfield as Alli was and I feel they both should be on the field. Milner contributed nothing and Lallana made one pass of significance and nothing else. But is that not enough?

I didn't buy into Baines starting but I can tell you he was better than Rose was last night on his worst day.

James Byrne
74 Posted 30/03/2016 at 05:50:02
I thought Stones was fantastic – he takes chances but it's his ability on the ball and his passing that stood out.

Let's be honest, if shite like Lallana, Henderson and Milner can get to wear the shirt, fuck me, so can John Stones.

Darren Hind
75 Posted 30/03/2016 at 07:16:02
What a gift for the Philistines and how they are rejoicing. I can't believe how many are queuing up to have a kick at our youngster.

Remember this. There is not a defender in world football who has not slipped, not at any level, but few would have been able to bring the ball from defence, drive at the opposition and thread the ball through all those players to lay a chance on a platter for Walcott.

I wonder why that's hardly getting a mention? It was easily the best bit of skill of the match.

I want Stones to play at Old Trafford and I want him playing football right under the noses of the Stretford End. I don't care how many heart attacks he induces.

The faint-hearted will want our other two center-halves to play of course. They may well have offered up ten chances in our last two Premier League games (not friendlies) but they are no nonsense... and only 5 chances were converted.

Altogether now... AVITTT!!!

John Keating
76 Posted 30/03/2016 at 07:34:45
I would think the Everton players would be quite happy not to be picked for the Euro squad.

Made to wear those strips would put any player off. Phenomenally shit both home and away kits.

Ian Hollingworth
77 Posted 30/03/2016 at 07:53:16
What has Martinez done to our players and what has he done to me? I am afraid my first thought when Jags came on was "Shit, that's all we need with them two at central defence with the way we have performed this season."

Are we cursed? I mean 2 goals like that involving Everton players. Or is it just a measure of our players' mentality after the pathetic coaching of Martinez and his team?

We desperately need a manager with ambition who will improve the quality of some key positions and change the mentality of the squad to a winning one.

Ian Hollingworth
78 Posted 30/03/2016 at 08:18:37
Whilst we are quick to criticise the players from other teams, we should pause on this question: Why are all the clubs they play for above us?
Colin Glassar
79 Posted 30/03/2016 at 08:24:20
England 1 Holland 2 and it's another case of "Martinez Out!!" Right, Ian?
Phil Walling
80 Posted 30/03/2016 at 08:26:27
William @ 68:

Forget 'media consultants' there's more than enough bullshitters around EFC these days. Martinez and his so-called coaches should be working night and day to help our Wonder Boy cut out the 'unfortunate' errors that he makes in every game he plays.

Of course he didn't decide to fall over but his hesitation over whether or not to pass back to the goalie was what caused him to do it. Yes, he's a star in the making but 'the making' is bloody expensive in result terms!

Sam Hoare
81 Posted 30/03/2016 at 08:59:17
Stones and Smalling should have been the England centre-back pairing for the last 6 months. They are clearly the best two centre-backs we have and possess the potential to make a great partnership over the next decade or so.

But they need time together.

Trevor Peers
82 Posted 30/03/2016 at 09:01:43
That was Barkley's best performance for England by a mile, he looked composed and in control going forward which was encouraging.

Stones looked a bit short of match sharpness which is understandable, and Jags was obviously fouled for their second goal.

It is peculiar, however, how our defensive mishaps have been carried into the England set-up. Is it a confidence problem, or just bad luck? Difficult to find the solution really.

Paul Thompson
83 Posted 30/03/2016 at 09:06:03
It isn't true that everyone in the media is trying to do Stones down. The BBC panel were generally supportive, but Lee Dixon was right when he said that the Stones slip came about because he was trying to turn instead of doing the simple thing. In those kind of circumstances he has to change his habits or it will keep happening.

In contrast some his sumptuous passes indicate his special talents. I do wonder whether he could do an Eric Dier and move to defensive mid.

Martin Mason
84 Posted 30/03/2016 at 09:08:19
I don't believe that John's gesture to the crowd meant calm down, I think it meant lay off me.

Both he and Ross were very good last night but the problems are bad when you make a mistake as last defender.

Dave Abrahams
85 Posted 30/03/2016 at 09:39:18
I thought it was a very boring game to watch. Stones slipped over, after he had sent the Dutch players he wrong way, it can happen to any player, remember how we all laughed at " slippy" versus Chelsea, but I though Stones had a good game.

I have to agree with Anthony @59, Barkley had a decent game but he can do much better, doesn't get involved enough, he always, last night, looked like he was on the outside looking in. Like Anthony says he's got to want the ball more, instead of going with the flow, he's got to take over and demand the ball.

He just doesn't realise how good he is and how very much better he can be, too quiet and should, by now, have the confidence to assert his authority on the game. Come on, Ross you are much, much better than you are playing.

Niall McIlhone
86 Posted 30/03/2016 at 09:40:59
John (#76), I agree with you, that Godawful kit! It looks like something out of the I-Zinghari League circa 1977!

Returning to this England set-up, I genuinely think that with the quality around the attacking third, built around Kane and Vardy, they should get through the group stages, but then it depends upon how this young squad holds together when the going gets tough against the savvy teams.

I hope all the Everton players come back from their respective national teams uninjured, and indeed, uncorrupted by agents, but I guess I might as well be whistling Dixie!

Tony Abrahams
87 Posted 30/03/2016 at 10:01:59
Anthony 59, and Dave, isn't that what we have been saying about Ross Barkley, for too long now.

I would play Gerry in the number ten, and give Ross a little rest. I actually thought he had a much better game against West Ham, when he played a bit deeper, so maybe that's where he will end up.

All the best players don't give a fuck for anyone once they cross the white lines. This is the thing that Barkley must develop because everything else is in place.

Brian Porter
88 Posted 30/03/2016 at 10:08:04
Stones played some sumptuous passes, reinforcing the belief he should perhaps be better employed as a midfielder where his talents would allow him to venture forward much more.

Sadly, his slip marred an otherwise good performance but I agree with the pundits for once who made the point that, as the last defender, he should have done the simple thing and either passed the ball back to the keeper or cleared it to either touchline. His slip was accidental, but he was again attempting to over complicate a simple clearance and the subsequent result was similar to what we've seen with Everton this season. Martinez's coaching showing through again?

Can't believe a couple of people are blaming Jags for the second goal. He was clearly fouled, first the guy pushed him in the back with both hands then nudged him with his leg just to make sure he lost his balance. A clear case of the ref wearing blue-tinted specs, I think.

Terry Aylward
89 Posted 30/03/2016 at 10:19:12
Just listened to Gerry Francis on Sky stating that Roy Hodgson must have been impressed by all the young players last night such as Kane, Dier, Rose and Ali – no bias there then
Brent Stephens
90 Posted 30/03/2016 at 10:31:31
Stones's slip was purely down to him, as last defender and facing goal, trying a sudden turn to beat a man on his back. Unforgivable.

Stones's through pass was superb. Try him in midfield, as Ray Roche says.

Shane Corcoran
91 Posted 30/03/2016 at 10:40:17
No report on the Ireland game. Let me tell you that a certain James McCarthy, nonchalantly (word used by Keith Andrews on commentary) sprayed a 50 yard pass with his left foot on to Cyrus Christie's too.

So he can do it if he's encouraged to do so.

Les Martin
92 Posted 30/03/2016 at 10:50:53
I thought Ross had a rough deal last night. You will notice that the Dutch man-marked him closely all night with their No 4. It proves that they saw him as the main architect in England's midfield. Many times, Ross had to come really deep to get the ball, that was the only time he was given a few yards by his marker, a real learning night for him.

Something that I did find interesting was that when Alli came on, it was not at Ross's expense; in the last two games, they have been in the same team. I think Roy may yet play them both in the same team from the start in France, as it give us much more fluidity in midfield.

As for Stones, slip yes but the media will hang the question mark over him. No doubt he can find a pass, but he has got to get tougher and aggressive as he still has a tendency to look casual.

Jags, solid and dependable and if it was between Jags and Stones for a place, I would bet Jags would get it on this basis. Hodgson will take no chances at the back.

Charles Barrow
93 Posted 30/03/2016 at 10:53:00
I think Ross had quite a good game – steady but not spectacular. I agree with the posters who say that Ross needs to demand the ball a bit more. Particularly in the second half he went off the boil and seemed to amble around waiting for someone to pass to him. He doesn't seem to have a sense of urgency!

Stones played well apart from the obvious slip. I don't think the media have an agenda against him. I think it's the contrary – they really build him up and then are disappointed when he makes a mistake.

Alli has taken over from Barkley as the saviour of English football, but did nothing when he came on. What I find bizarre is that Milner had an absolute shocker and no-one seems to have picked up on that and Rose was also poor.

To be fair I think Lallana was better than against Germany. Sturridge did nothing.

Peter Roberts
94 Posted 30/03/2016 at 11:01:43
Play stones as a defensive midfielder till the penny drops and he leaves his ego in the dressing room.

Barkley was very good at times. Play him deeper and he has so much more scope to work with; once into his stride, he is unstoppable – it is a risk as his defensive work isn't great but I would sooner see him deeper.

Ian Burns
95 Posted 30/03/2016 at 11:15:40
There is no doubt in my mind that Stones and Smalling are England's best pairing, although I prefer Stones to be playing on the right side of the two centre-backs.

I agree with the number of posts who have praised Ross's performance but who also point out that he can do so much more. I think it was Don Alexander above, who pointed out he doesn't have that innate desire to take the game by the scruff of the neck because he certainly has the ability.

So near, yet so far with Ross – but that, said I pray he is an Everton player for many years to come, as I do with Stones but I fear the summer will see him depart along with goalscorer Rom for Belgium last night.

Ste Traverse
97 Posted 30/03/2016 at 13:22:17
William Cartwright #68.

What an absolute paranoid post. Total rubbish too.

Ben Dyke
100 Posted 30/03/2016 at 15:12:18
If anyone is still reading this thread then what do they think of the defensive performance of our players? Stones's slip and Jagielkas lack of physicality for the 2nd goal?

I liked Stones going forward and Barkley's performance.

Raymond Fox
101 Posted 30/03/2016 at 16:07:13
Everton fans who criticise Everton players on here are only saying as we see it. We are naturally more interested in our own players, so to comment more on their performances is to be expected.

Just because they're Everton players shouldn't give them a free ride on the forum. I think its fair to say we are not criticising in a vindictive way, in any case who gives two hoots what we think!

For what it's worth, my opinion is, John's slip couldn't have come at a worse time for the lad, I don't blame him one jot for it though it was just unfortunate. I thought apart from a couple of chancy passes, his forward movement and passes were excellent.

I think Ross needs a good kick up the arse, he has much more in his locker and it's about time he got some urgency in his play. He's frustrating to watch and I think Don in post 63 sums him up well when he says he needs to get the game by the scruff of the neck. Woy or Roberto need to give him a stern talking to, because he has the ability to be much better than he's showing us.

Tony Hill
102 Posted 30/03/2016 at 16:24:59
It's a confidence thing with Ross and it is frustrating for those of us who value him greatly. It's going to decide in the end whether he becomes a great player or merely a good one (he isn't the first sportsman, of course, to be at the same time hugely talented and lacking in confidence).

No amount of kicking up the arse is going to make a difference, I fear. It's in Ross's head that the battle needs to be fought and he's the only one who can fight it. I have wondered whether a psychologist could do the job but I doubt it.

Here's hoping it just clicks into place somehow because it would be a great sight to see a mentally relaxed and confident Barkley.

Raymond Fox
103 Posted 30/03/2016 at 17:03:10
Tony, you're probably right to mention confidence, he does come across as you say.

Maybe a kick up the arse is rather strong, but surely either Martinez or Hodgson have told him about he needs to get involved much more in games, and that he needs to use the natural talent that he's obviously got, much more also.

Phil Walling
104 Posted 30/03/2016 at 17:43:06
I thought Barkley had an excellent game but he is still prone to 'generosity.' I refer to the incident when he made a great run into the box and then unselfishly 'laid in on' for Kane or Vardy when he should have put his foot through it. As he matures, he will become more self-indulgent.
Andy Crooks
106 Posted 30/03/2016 at 18:47:25
Gavin, I think that Philistines comment is very harsh. Having said that, I believe Stones is a Rolls Royce, a real super star in the making. He and Barkley looked special. I would keep Stones ahead of Lukaku anytime.

If we keep Barkley, Stones and Lukaku then, we will be a club heading to great times. In my view John Stones is as good as we have ever had. He is like Bobby Moore with pace.

William Cartwright
107 Posted 30/03/2016 at 18:53:50
Ste (97); I don't think I am paranoid but I have been known to talk rubbish from time to time. Sorry you found my post so offensive.

My main concern is that living overseas I can only get to see one perhaps 2 games a season at Goodison, so the rest of my experience is limited to Sky, Be-In Sport and re-runs of Match of the Day.

In all three channels for the last 3 years I have only ever seen one commentary where Everton were the favoured team – the 3-0 defeat of the Arse.

For what it's worth, I work in the legal side of project management for a living, and fair mindedness and objectivity become a habit. In spite of that, I am hopelessly biased as an Evertonian and proud of that, but I can put it into perspective.

What is more insidious than the generally one-sided commentary (which is usually easier given how Martinez makes playing the game, especially defensively, very difficult), is the take on transfers. John Stones was being feted and pressurized to join Chelsea as if Everton were just nothing to be considered. That is not paranoia, that is media and commercial forces at work and it has been going on for too long. Unless of course you are a Redshite et al.

Look again at the media reactions to the last two England games... Comment after comment about the limitations of Everton players, little if anything positive. Complete contrast regarding the Liverpool contingent.

You even hear supporters of other teams acknowledging the point from time to time. I repeat, it is not paranoia, it is loaded interest AGAINST Everton FC and I for one am pissed off with it.

Bill Gall
109 Posted 30/03/2016 at 19:50:53
I have to agree with Les Martin (#92). The Dutch were aware of the capabilities of Barkley and instructed one of their players to mark him, but not too close to allow him to turn quickly and loose him and this forced him to go back deeper. I am not aware of the stats but I don't believe he lost any tackles and the majority of his passes were completed .

Watching the game, one of the differences I noticed is the amount of times English players get into an open space and raise their hands for a pass and are ignored.

As far as Stones goes, he showed the good and bad sides of his play and I believe his good sides far outweigh his bad. The major problem with Stones is who is to blame for his bad play, that has turned one of the most exiting and developing young central players of a year ago, into a young player whose confidence is slowly leaving him? Is it (a) overconfidence in believing all the hype written about him? Or is it (b) poor defensive coaching by the club?

Everton's players are going to have to be exceptional in international games to get any praise from the media as Everton are definitely not flavor of the month and last night's game proved that, with all the attention on Stones's slip, and Jagielka supposedly not strong enough in the tackle that let in the Dutch for their second goal.

This raises the question again, why is a team with so many internationals in their squad, some of whom are going to warrant really high fees if they are transferred, doing so poorly in the Premier League???

Glen Garrett
110 Posted 30/03/2016 at 21:28:23
The defending is why Everton are so low down in the Premier League. Both Stones and Jags were at fault to both goals. Jags should have just cleared it instead of pissing around with it.

And as for Stones, well he needs to go back to reserve team football and learn to stay on his feet and just play the simple ball. He keeps trying to be too clever for his own good, he isn't good enough to be to clever with the ball.
Dick Fearon
111 Posted 30/03/2016 at 22:15:58
Many pundits mentioned that England, compared to the Germany game, in the one vs Holland we lacked intensity.

Not having seen the game myself, I wondered if that was the result of having three Everton players in the side?

Lack of intensity has often been our downfall and I put that down to Martinez's obsession with keeping possession.

Barry McNally
112 Posted 30/03/2016 at 22:32:03
Jay (#67), any news on Ramiro Funes Mori?
Ray Roche
113 Posted 30/03/2016 at 22:52:45
Funny, but talkSport, BBC, different "experts" etc, have been giving Evertonians grief for the stick and "pressure" we've apparently been piling on Stones at Goodison when we've criticised him for dicking about in the area. Get off his back etc... let him learn by his mistakes and so on, and so on...

So, as soon as he does it for Engerland they have dropped on him like a ton of crap with a stream of criticism following his Slippy G impersonation last night... er... does that make ME paranoid as well?

Andy Stone
114 Posted 30/03/2016 at 23:52:05
Funes Mori was suspended for last night's CONMEBOL qualifier for yellow card accumulation as was Otamendi.

No injury.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.


About these ads

© ToffeeWeb