Speaking to the local press this past week in an attempt to explain Everton's wretched form, the left back admitted that "the chemistry is not quite there [between the players] and hasn't been for a while."
His plain-talking but measured assessment was welcomed by supporters but his manager claims Baines's words were misconstrued. Even so, he says the England international has apologised.
“It is very disappointing when you see a misinterpretation of a player's words, and clearly this has been taken out of context,” Martinez said in his pre-match press conference ahead of the trip to Watford.
“What he intended to say is that when you're not getting the results you lose confidence so a ball that could go in hits the crossbar and it goes out. At the other end, a half chance ends up in the back of the net.
“That's what he meant and it was more of a feeling of disappointment and frustration and obviously he used the wrong words.
“But someone with the experience of Leighton Baines — and he knows, I've had a chat with him — he has to take responsibility for those words. They've been given the opportunity to attract a meaning that is not right and for that he apologised.
“We expect a senior figure at Everton to take responsibility, to make sure that we speak on the pitch, and the way to do that is against Watford.
"We have a strong mentality and that is not going to be tested by comments from outside.
“It is important our fans understand that words can be taken out of context. We are not performing well at the moment, but that is something we want to change quickly.”
Reader Comments (329)
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1 Posted 07/04/2016 at 09:29:56
So Leighton had to apologise, if not for his actual observations, but for the way he left his words open to interpretation. Funny how Rom didn't have to make any apologies or at least the manager didn't feel the need to make it public if he did.
The rest of his press conference so far, is the usual bluster and avoidance of the issues. I honestly have to keep looking at the league table before he took over to see if we were consistently in the bottom five because that's how he seems to be addressing the situation at least in his own mind.
2 Posted 07/04/2016 at 09:47:00
But misinterpretation? Out of context? Of what?? Leaving the words open?
He has just hung Baines out to dry... Public ally admonishing him for speaking out against him and his managerial style.
What's the next step? Baines having to sit in a press conference and tell people he is sorry and what a great guy Roberto is and how wonderful the team spirit is?
I am sure Roberto had words with him.. I wonder if he got fined and dropped too...
3 Posted 07/04/2016 at 10:10:12
Well done, Baines...
We love you, Bainesy, we do,
We love you, Bainesy, we do,
OH BAINESY we love you!!!
4 Posted 07/04/2016 at 10:29:10
How he has the nerve to blame FA Cup 'hype' for poor league form and then for him to try and hang Baines out to dry for speaking the truth... Baines is an intelligent person and his phrasing and the use of the word 'chemistry' was brilliant. Everyone interpreted it as meaning the tactics are crap and the manager doesn't know how to use his players. Even Martinez understood this and that's why he has asked Baines to apologize!
I really hope the Goodison faithful at the next home game sing Baines's name for the full 90 minutes so this fraud knows his place...
I've resigned myself to another 8 months at least of this train wreck of a manager before Moshiri can overrule Kenwright and sack him. I'm hoping between now and that moment that the players give us some relief with an FA Cup win...
5 Posted 07/04/2016 at 10:40:05
We have 4 league games before the semi-final... sounds like the excuses are already being made for these.
Wish the club would put us (and him) out of our misery... whether we win, lose or draw away to Watford will make fuck all difference!
6 Posted 07/04/2016 at 10:58:38
We all agree though, I would imagine (I haven't read the thread).
7 Posted 07/04/2016 at 11:33:15
We can all see that the team is not playing as a team, he just voiced the truth. Being a manager can be a lonely place, that's why you have deputies to tell you when you are going off course and they work together to get things back on track.
Surely Ferguson or Unsworth know what's going on with the players, maybe they have said something and Martinez chooses to ignore them. We will never know until the books come out.
Martinez is now where Jose was at Chelsea and, like Jose, he has to go. I honestly think he should go before the semi-final as the players will not be happy with the way Baines has been hung out to dry.
8 Posted 07/04/2016 at 11:37:19
Baines is a very popular figure amongst many fans. He may be showing signs of wear and tear, but I think many still have a great deal of respect and affection for him, and when he speaks, we know it is for the good of the club.
On the other hand, I struggle to understand Martinez. Perhaps the lack of clarity in his language reflects a muddled mind.
9 Posted 07/04/2016 at 11:49:19
I fully understand Baines's comments and Martinez would have had my respect if he said he would try and address them, since we know this is how Baines feels.
10 Posted 07/04/2016 at 11:58:38
Now who else at Everton would make comments that aren't clear?
11 Posted 07/04/2016 at 12:01:17
12 Posted 07/04/2016 at 12:49:28
13 Posted 07/04/2016 at 12:54:44
14 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:10:38
15 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:11:02
16 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:15:28
Seems to me at any rate that the press are beginning to put Roberto under more scrutiny than they have done recently or indeed ever, of course that may partly be to the supporters voicing concerns and they don't want to be seen behind the curve of popular opinion.
17 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:23:53
18 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:46:10
Looking to translate it for Martinez, I think he meant something like:-
"Roberto, you are useless; you do not know how we are to play so how are we supposed to? If you leave the subs for a bit later, we will be down the tunnel when the player goes on, and just to make it clear you are a the worst manager I have had the misfortune to play under."
Perhaps the phenomenal one would not misinterpret that, and by the way please go now.
19 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:50:33
I'm not sure Baines's words were even that controversial. The team isn't working out we lack something. Was there any need to even disagree?
The Echo don't seem to do witch hunts but that might well change now. Attacking Prentice and Baines isn't a smart move.
I haven't been a fan of Roberto's but I still desperately wanted it to work out. Now it just feels like a shame; a wasted opportunity. Can't bring myself to dislike him, but I would pity him if it wasn't for his bank account.
20 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:58:33
A few days in Room 101 will soon put him right. Defense is attack. Bad is good. Viva Roberto!!
21 Posted 07/04/2016 at 14:10:01
"Of course we rely on individuals because the team is made up of individuals and we've got 15, 16 individuals that have had impressive campaigns, probably the best in their young careers in some cases."
Make up your mind Roberto you can't have it both ways. When you are in a hole stop digging.
22 Posted 07/04/2016 at 14:14:28
Blimey I was one of the ones who stubbornly supported you despite feeling increasing unease at how arrogant, stubborn and stupid you were getting by the week.
You can show ambition to leave the club whilst in the middle of a season but you can reveal any reasons as to why performances haven't been up to scratch...
You ain't gonna walk away as I think you even as deluded as you are know that you ain't gonna get a good job after this let's just hope Bill and Moshiri are unanimous in you needing to be sacked.
23 Posted 07/04/2016 at 14:31:19
No longer are the fans complaining of Martinez's methods but now the press are starting to agree with what fans are saying .
Martinez beware: "The pen is mightier than the sword".
24 Posted 07/04/2016 at 14:47:25
Okay, all this has nothing to do with relying on Gareth Barry then?
Having watched the video, you can see Martinez is the king of bullshit. He has a good command of the English language, which he uses well... even to the extent that, when he really needs time to answer an awkward question, he plays the foreigner well, making you think that his hesitation is due to the fact that English is not his first language.
All very subtle... but in his interview, he dropped his guard at 15:49 you can see his actual body swerve, when asked about the booing in the dressing room; he allayed to a total different tangent, that had got fuck all to do with the direct question.
I played it back several times from that point and said to myself, "Gotcha!!!"
And the line about the semi-final having an effect on league performances... utter scutter!!
Martinez is probably the only foreigner who, if he visited an English hypnotist, it would be him hypnotising the hypnotist!!
Trust in me,
Trust in me,
Close your eyes,
And go to sleeeeeep....
25 Posted 07/04/2016 at 14:51:53
The scary thing for me was that he didn't seem to have a clue what Baines was actually on about. A couple of follow-up questions gave him the chance to agree our teamwork maybe needed working on but that seemed to go over his head.
This has now gathered pace in the press and on social media so it will be very interesting to see how our new board deal with the situation or maybe not. Who knows but well worth keeping an eye on. It might form some opinions on how well Bill has chosen his successor.
26 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:18:23
Hold your head up, Leighton. I promise you, you will still be here when Martinez has long gone.
27 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:21:41
"Out of context.... misinterpreted... " â€“ what complete and utter bollocks.
Someone may correct me but l can't recall the Echo ever being this forthright. I'm taking it as a sign that the end is drawing near...
28 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:30:28
To translate for you, Roberto what he was saying is that the individual players have no idea what they are supposed to be doing as a team because their coach has no idea what he is doing as a coach.
The game vs Watford has now taken on a more significant meaning. If Watford turn us over and there is no chemistry among the players, Roberto, then what bullshit are you going to come out with? Because you can be sure some journalist/pundit will ask you the question.
29 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:32:17
The issue is then that either I and the majority of people who post on TW have got it wrong and this has been a PHENOMENAL season.
OR, we have got it right based on the performances we have seen and our collective knowledge of football over many years.
If we are right then Martinez is peddling bullshit on a Galactic level in a desperate attempt to save his job.
Alternatively, he actually truly believes all is good and, if that's the case, then we really are in trouble!!!
30 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:36:19
How the hell does that mean what Baines said about lack of chemistry??? Moshiri must be baffled at what's going on at the club.
31 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:38:22
I said on another thread that things are very wrong at the club and the time was fast approaching were it would be every man for themselves, this latest silly statement from Martinez confirms it.
I would predict more to follow...
Maybe Martinez is related to the guy who said this:
"I am right. I'm always right. One time I thought I was wrong, I found out I was right." â€“ Jerry Lee Lewis....
Christine â€“ I hope you are wrong regards your choice of next manager !
32 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:41:42
I also agree with Prentice when he says that publicly reprimanding Baines for his sincerity is particularly hard to take when no apology was required for Lukaku mouthing off about Champions League football next year.
33 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:42:18
Even as I type this I'm re re-considering but it just shows how much I can't bear the utter bullshit that the man comes out with these days.
34 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:42:59
Bainesy said what he meant, and about time one of them did! It isn't as if it was a bleeding secret. We can all see what is going on!
This is just Martinez diverting the negativity on to someone else! Wanker!
35 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:47:53
I used to like him and say he was a good bloke. Beginning to doubt it now. Has an air of arrogance and nastiness about him, and his unswerving belief that we are actually doing okay is insulting. All that rubbish about the best away form since 1906 or whenever! Come on. Great to see Prentice in the Echo today cut him to shreds. Absolute Moron of the highest order.
36 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:48:08
It is vital as fans we show support for a dedicated professional such as Baines who stood by Everton when he could easily have left and now faces public comments like this from his manager.
More than ever, a clear statement he must leave and WE must convey those thoughts to the Club hierarchy.
37 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:51:50
What Baines meant is exactly as he said it: "This team is disjointed." meaning there are players who care and players who don't.
Martinez has surely embarrassed himself and the club; his explanations get more bizzare. Not acceptable he should go.
38 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:52:37
40 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:53:18
Prentice always stays on the side of the club.
He would not risk being ostracized.
Martinez is gone.
41 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:53:45
I tell you who is a bigger moron than Martinez Prentice
This charlatan Martinez has been embarrassing our Club for 2 years and how many pertinent questions has Prentice and his apprentices asked Martinez?
The supporters have been asking the arseholes at the Echo to ask this clown questions we have wanted asking for ages but they've been far more interested in getting their grub at Finch Farm and treble gins at Goodison on match days.
Prentice and his cohorts are now being questioned... so now and only now is it an issue.
Hypocritical bastards the lot of them.
42 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:56:37
43 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:07:48
44 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:10:52
45 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:11:24
The Echo only question him now he's upset one of their own.
46 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:17:51
Our new owner, and Martinez buddy Bill, have to see now, what Chris Sutton sees, he's lost the plot, 'Martinez is in fucking cuckoo land'.
47 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:20:20
48 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:22:03
I have this feeling in the pit of my stomach that we are going to get an almighty hiding from the RS who will attack us from the first minute, and the pathetic excuse will be that our minds were on the semi-final.
I'm now with Ray (#30) and want a change right now. Don't even care who it is until the season end.
49 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:22:46
Exposing Baines like that, to show himself (Martinez), his tactics and his record in the best light, was despicable and cowardly the best managers defend their players, not use them to deflect attention away from their own shortcomings.
That's the last straw... heaped on top of so many other last straws.
50 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:23:59
You could not make it up.
51 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:29:05
One of these two is the Baines of my team, the other is the bane of my life.
Â¿CÃ³mo està todavÃa aquÃ?
52 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:30:05
This manager lost the home crowd a long time ago. Let's make sure that he knows the crowd are behind Baines who is Everton through and through. I'm sick an tired of his complete bullshit interviews. The man has to go, regardless of whether we win the cup or not. He couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery. Sooner he is gone the better.
Let's hope the new money man is one ruthless bastard because everyone has become too comfy. They need a huge kick up the backside, from top to bottom.
53 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:30:16
I was willing RM to be a success but I think this takes us past the point of no return, even with an FA cup win!
This season has been a disaster! After such high expectations!
54 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:33:00
But, after this, I've changed my mind! Enough now!!
55 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:35:40
Baines is a proper Everton player and deserves to be heard.
We love complaining about how much players earn, but Martinez earns a bucket, is responsible as the manager for the team and like all poor managers blames everything but himself. He would struggle to hold down a £30k job at Tesco.
56 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:39:27
When is telling the truth a mistake?
The truth often hurts. All Leighton has done is give us an insight from the dressing room which we all suspected anyway.
I'm not normally one to start shouting in public, but I'm going to give it some at the Southampton game.
I think Martinez knows exactly how we feel, but his arrogance is such that he doesn't actually care.
I'm going to support Leighton loudly, even if he's on the bench or not even in the squad!
I can see a mysterious injury looming instead when Martinez drops him.
57 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:43:24
58 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:43:46
I agree with that thought regarding giving Baines a standing ovation. Let us make it happen!!
59 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:45:42
I have just checked the odds and he is the bookies favorite to go next, I also read a interesting article today that a huge amount of money has been placed of Mourinho to be the next Everton Manager.
However, back on point: I have been wishing that the Echo would do this; thankfully at last they have.
I always watched the Pressers and Martinez has a tell when he lies: He combs his right eyebrow.
I just want him gone now and I think some of our senior players do too.
60 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:46:05
It gets tested by every team we play and comes up lacking.
Baines is spot on.
The team spirit and comradery that Moyes built up has been totally destroyed by this egotistical fantasist.
Martinez out now!!
61 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:46:10
You've been rumbled, Mr Martinez. The press are now onto you (took them long enough) and the pressure is not only slowly building but is also starting to show... and about time too.
I hope Martinez is living on borrowed time and is almost at the end of his phenomenal fucking journey.
62 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:48:59
"We know the quality we have. Clearly the disappointment is there because the standards are so high. We feel we can perform against anyone.â€
An odd thing to say after three consecutive defeats, no?
63 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:52:19
Hope this happens as a couple of mins on Sky, plus 5-10 mins on Soccer Saturday should bring the pains on for Martinez: bye bye...
64 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:52:32
When even the Echo publicly back up Baines's words and state their was no misinterpretation then it's clear that Martinez is a liar and a bully and has no place as the manager of our (not his) football club.
Could this be the straw that breaks the camel's back? It's time the rest of the team got behind Baines, a true blue and one of our most respected senior players.
Martinez is not fit to breathe the same air. He's a charlatan, a dictator who can't take criticism or accept any opinion but his own. If Phil Jagielka was a tea team captain rather than Martinez's mouthpiece, he'd now stand up, back Leighton Baines and let's see how Martinez copes when the whole team turns against him, which I feel isn't far away.
The man is a loathsome little prat, with delusions of grandeur and the sooner he's out of our club, the better for everyone.
65 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:53:42
He's not only tried to pass the buck to Leighton Baines and say that he's apologised. He's publicly accused the Echo reporters of "taking out of context" and "misinterpreting" what Bainsey has said.
On a number of occasions I've thought that Roberto's summary after some galling defeats were not accurate. In fact they appeared to me to be excuses, Man City, Chelsea for example, when it seemed to me that poor tactics and poor substitutions were at fault.
I didn't like the attempted deflection of what went wrong and I certainly don't like what he's said about Leighton and also The Echo. I think he's spoken before he's thought through what the consequences are going to be.
Rather than saying nothing, he's attacked a senior player for saying what is blatantly obvious.
There is something wrong within the squad.
I've supported Martinez throughout last season and this, until he started using excuses and blaming anyone or anything for results, rather than saying "We'll have to sort this out... and quick"
Now, all the fans will be reading or being told about, what has appeared in The Echo. I think now that there will be a massive reaction to his attempted public humbling of Leighton (which hasn't worked) and his miscalculation over what he's said about the Echo reporters.
In effect, he has accused them of lying and my guess is that he's thought he could get away with it. Bad, bad miscalculation. I don't think he can recover from this now. I don't think he saw coming the response from Dave Prentice and it's blewn up in his face. From now on, I think the Everton reporters team will be gloves off, when reporting on EFC.
Certainly as far as many of the fans go, he has attacked a lad who's pulled his tripes out for Everton (yeah, well paid I know but he's worked his bollocks off ) and has said what we mostly suspected. The team spirit has gone.
66 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:56:26
My mind was made up well over a year ago regarding Mr Snake Oil Salesman. He is unworthy of managing Everton FC. Bye, bye.
67 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:56:40
68 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:58:28
Like so many on here I have been against calling publicly or voting for the removal of Martinez, but for him to go public and criticise a senior player for telling it as it is when we have been subjected to his constant diatribe of shit for the past three years really does take the biscuit.
The man is obviously on very shaky ground and the pressure of the job has really got to him. It is time to put him firmly in the frame as OFM.
Adios amigo you are now persona non grata. You have been a big disappointment.
69 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:58:35
He has had every opportunity over the last 3 seasons and winning the cup will in no way camouflage his ineptitude and the pathetic results of many games this season.
The players are beginning to voice their concerns and of course Martinez will try to sugar coat them.
I think we are all expecting some big movement in the Summer and not before time.
70 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:58:56
Jim in your first paragraph, perhaps his comments were 'misinterpreted', ha ha!!
The noose appears to be tightening, not before time.
71 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:59:18
72 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:01:29
Mark, I think Roberto has done that himself with the extremely distasteful response to Leighton's comments.
73 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:02:09
Jim I'm with you on that one.
I think the crowd will chant Leighton's name throughout.
I will anyway.
74 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:04:42
75 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:05:03
76 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:05:07
77 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:06:56
Sack the incompetent deluded fool now. He should never have had the job and he is embarrassing us and the team performances are shit. How many more reasons are needed to fire him? Do it now, please, as this is way beyond a joke.
78 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:06:58
79 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:08:18
80 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:08:31
81 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:18:13
A) Come out fighting
B) Lay down weapons and die, à la Man Utd at Goodison under Moyes when the game was up.
82 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:19:29
Not so bad.
83 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:21:22
To whom we don't know, but given Martinez's bluffing techniques, maybe only he knows.
Martinez scared me in the interview by referring to a new era. I hope he is not including himself in this 'new era' and being able to squander the cash from the sale of Lukaku on pure shite!!
84 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:27:43
I have also been hoping that those charitable few who see him as a decent guy will see through him. Now they just might.
85 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:28:22
Death nail will be hammered in if we don't win the semi-final and lose the derby and he'll be gone after season end. Huge question as to where we go next. Has to be an exceptional manager for me. One that would excite everybody. Especially for Stones and Ross. Not sure who we could get though.
86 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:32:03
87 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:32:42
88 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:34:14
89 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:35:19
So let's all start on Prentice and the Echo. Just as they begin to see the light.
90 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:37:11
91 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:38:48
What are the rumors you have heard?
I think Mancini or Mourinho would be very good.
92 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:38:49
Some on here have said that Moshiri needs to wait to sack RM because he needs to get BS "What a manager" Billy on side. I disagree, he's the majority shareholder and he can do what he wants imo. Billy is now just a figurehead so Moshiri doesn't have to bother as much with the press.
Moshiri is watching the games, he's hearing the fans (or not, given the silence at matches these days), he must have looked at the stats and he must be cringing like the rest of us with the bullshit coming from Roberto.
He needs sacking now. We might get a dead cat bounce in the league and it might be enough to get us past the semi finals.
93 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:39:34
Okay, Roberto, let's teach you 'bout "chemistryâ€
Just make sure you are aware of its properties
Because our Bainsey, he knows all our history
Then you'll learn,
Oh, oh - basic stuff for chemistry
94 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:40:12
Has anyone heard this apology, btw, or is Martinez just coming out with more shite to justify himself.
95 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:42:43
I think that the Echo know something we don't and it's time to go for the jugglar with Martinez.
96 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:43:10
The poll on ToffeeWeb shows 82% want him gone, I find it surprising that he still has any support left in the fanbase. I know Prentice has come out and said Baines shouldn't apologize, but I wish the press would give him half the stick LVG gets.
97 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:44:27
Very tenuous, I know... but thought I would ask.
98 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:52:35
He claims Baines's words were misinterpreted and out of context. What he has done is sign his own resignation letter.The board won't put up with Martinez much longer, the players won't back him, and for attacking one of the best players to grace our kit the fans will go for the throat.
Even those fans who would not normally rock the boat, must see the damage that he and his Wigan coaching staff are doing to our club. They should be sacked today, no ifs, buts or maybes.
99 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:53:43
Now that we have a few pence to spend it is becoming more of a reality after all he and his ilk seem to follow the money!
100 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:53:58
101 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:55:28
102 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:55:49
Baines is more Everton than than the worthless prick will ever be. I think he's trying to show that he's the boss but he's shown that he's the twat.... Again!!!
103 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:55:54
Jesus can anyone at Everton just shut the fuck up and do their job?
All of it gets on my tits and all of it is fucking pointless...
'Blah, blah... last 10 games, big push for the supporters... so close... couple more players back from suspension... hoping to push on and give fans a day to remember... getting back to full fitness... repay their loyalty... must pick ourselves up... end on a high... blah blah'
As for Chatty Cathy, you wouldn't want to be in a regiment with him..
104 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:56:07
Hanging Baines out to dry for speaking the truth is a terrible new low.
As for Prentice, he's done too much 'fiddling while Rome burns' over the last decade for me, but his article on the Echo website regarding this is seriously spot-on.
105 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:56:45
I do think that Roberto gets the club, but unfortunately that does not make him a good manager. His utterings are increasingly desperate and deluded.
106 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:02:09
Apparently, when asked if his train was at 3pm, Leighton replied "No, ten to three".
107 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:03:43
"I do think that Roberto gets the club."
All that remains is for him to 'get the bullet'!
108 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:04:13
Kenwright will be in regular contact with the senior members of staff, so of course he will know exactly how the players view the manager manager & his methods.
Koeman has one more season left on his contract and is refusing to sign a new contract until the summer. He has had players sold from under him since he took over at Southampton a very competent manager who would be a good, solid appointment.
109 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:20:53
110 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:23:03
True, but if he said "I inshisht on brinkink my own beckroom shtaff", that would mean Sham... er, I mean... Sammy Lee in an Everton trackie.
Not against it in theory but it would look very odd.
111 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:27:05
Baines, being honest has been made a scapegoat for nothing except speaking the truth. The self-ordained deluded grand master of delusion has sealed his fate in my book. The fans will be less forgiving and this internal battle of minds now apparent in the dressing room must surely mean that the club must accept that now the blight we are on is maturing faster than the spring is blooming, the stench is rising high above Goodison Park.
Moshiri, Kenwright and the board take heed. Watford the players will be jibbing it or going on the ordinary. The dressing room is now lost, in my view. This will be an interesting month in the history of EFC.
nb: In time honoured Martinez style, Baines will have a soft tissue injury for Watford.
112 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:28:25
"Do you think Leighton Baines should be appointed caretaker manager with immediate effect?"
113 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:36:48
114 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:37:07
115 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:43:47
116 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:45:14
117 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:51:34
It smacks of a dictatorship and he is making a fool of himself now. The board need to put Martinez out of his misery. The media are smelling the bullshit now too.
Evertonians have suffered this situation for too long, the board need to act because they are looking more foolish day by day. I don't like to see anyone lose their job but it's time for Martinez Grim Reaper moment.
118 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:57:27
Baines for me is one of the only players we have had in the last 10 years who would get into the 84-85 side and comfortably so. Who does that prick think he is doing that to the lad...
Maybe little Leighton is easy pickings... big sulky Rom wants to go? Make him apologise??? Nah, he would bring the world class media down on his arse...
Bye Roberto. Go and join Brenda in the Emirates.
119 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:02:46
This isn't the first time players have questioned his management. Pienaar, Jags, Garbutt and Mirallas have all grumbled at some point publicly and we all know what happened to Eto'o and Distin when they questioned him behind closed doors.
To me, this sounds like a man walking on thin ice. A man who has lost the dressing room and is desperate to appear still in control. I think his days are numbered... and now, I will try and read the above posts.
120 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:02:56
Bad news is that Moyes has gone in from 7s to 2s during the day. Oh dear!
121 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:07:14
122 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:08:28
Because if we are, it then shows that we have some power as a team to switch said chemistry on and off at will.
Firstly, that bodes well for the cup semi; and secondly, what does it tells us about how the team feels regarding Martinez?
Interesting times ahead, I'll wager.
Oh, and I just thought "Get on the Bus" Gus might be looking for a club soon...
123 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:09:54
I imagine in Roberto's mind he will deal Baines out in the summer. Not that he will get the opportunity, of course. Can you imagine what the dressing room thinks of this bullshit?!
Forget the Cup, the dressing room is currently moribund. No one's buying the manager anymore, players or fans.
The derby should be fun......
124 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:10:33
I agreed with your post on criticism of Dave Prentice as well.
125 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:10:42
126 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:11:48
His inability to deal with anything credibly since then has dented his reputation with everyone. He is now a shell of the manager we had in season one, playing the strong man to unnecessarily bollock a senior pro who was clearly talking honestly and accurately.
I don't normally agree with sacking managers mid-table. I genuinely think we'd have more chance of winning the three games that matter with AN Other in charge, before a permanent appointment in the summer.
We've sacked a manager before a semi in 1977... Let's do it again. Right now.
127 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:11:59
I could just imagine Kenwright sitting there saying to Jenny, "who the fucking hell do these people think they are calling for Roberto's head? Don't they realise this is a long-term plan this great manager is going to bring Champions League football to Goodison and they think I'm going to sack him. Think again. I run this fucking club not the punters."
As for Prentice, well let's not go there. I'd save my breath screaming for Martinez to go. It's not happening. I'd be massively shocked if he's not there next season regardless of whether we win the cup or not. It's not Bill's way.
As for admonishing Leighton... despicable. Bainesy in our recent history has been one of our best players and a great servant. Let's not forget he could've gone up the East Lancs but chose to stay and that in my eyes makes him a legend unlike the man who is currently managing the car crash.
128 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:12:56
Prentice and his stooges should have declared war on Martinez the second he implied that somehow the supporters were to blame for poor results.
It was bad enough when the clown blamed referees etc but he crossed the line implicating us for his incompetence. What did the Echo do? NOWT!
I wouldn't trust the Echo mob as far as I could throw them.
Once the Club invite them all for a clear-the-air session and fill them up with quadruple gins, they'll be back toeing the Company line.
129 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:15:17
There can be no doubt that the confusing, annoying, often patronising and nonsensical press conferences we have endured through this reign have made almost all of us cringe at times, but today, Roberto has actually outdone himself. In publicly hanging Baines out to dry for comments, that were made in good faith and in an honest assessment of the team, he has surely overstepped the mark.
Let me make it clear that the moment Baines opened his mouth and said it the way it is, we all knew he would be made to pay for it. This was the first time that public comments had been made by a player, although it is conjecture that some players have made their views known privately and ended up out of the door; we shall never know.
What we do know is that Baines wasn't taken out of context, has no reason to apologise except to perhaps understand exactly how his words would be interpreted as a direct criticism of the manager. If he did, then even more kudos to him because someone had to say it.
But in reacting the way he has, Roberto has managed to drive a wedge between players, press, fans and yes, even I suspect at board level. He has overstepped the mark to such an extent that I believe the club management will have no other option but to immediately let him go.
Painful as it is for Bill Kenwright, there is an FA Cup Final place at stake. Do we go to the semi-final with a manager who has clearly soured relations to such an extent that he has managed to alienate players, fans and press? Does he really think we will get the best out of the team under Martinez?
We all know that, when a club changes its manager, it gives a boost and a lift to the team and the club in general. Such a boost may well be needed to win the semi-final now because I fear what respect he did have is now severely and fatally eroded.
Bill has a chance for his day in the sun; he has the opportunity to increase our chance of success and perhaps, with a new owner on board, it's a great way to start a new era. But the longer the decision takes, the less chance of success we may have.
For Roberto, I am afraid his vision has crumbled under the weight of his comments and the refusal to take his share of blame for its failure.
130 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:19:29
He can't blame Baines he's already apologized. He can't blame Roberto, he's the dog's bollocks by all accounts. He can only keep silent and watch Moshiri keep silent but move into a stronger position and all will be well. Eventually.
ps: Thank you, Leighton. If you read this, I know you don't know me but, in my humble opinion, as well as being an absolute quality footballer, you are also a proper gentleman in the real sense of the word.
131 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:19:55
132 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:21:04
How the fuck did we get here?
134 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:21:36
135 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:22:24
136 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:22:56
Brian Kidd hasn't done so bad at City....
137 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:23:44
Prentice is actually a straight up guy, and well respected by his peers, so I believe Prentice and I believe Leighton. Congrats to both for taking on this fraud.
Surely it is now time to put this lamentable manager out of his misery. Word is that he will be gone by July, so why prolong the agony for our players, fans, and the club?
Taxi to Parbold for the slippery many-faced deluded señor.
138 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:23:55
139 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:24:12
140 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:25:18
141 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:26:11
142 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:26:41
I've had it with this club. I'm going to start bee-keeping without a mask. The relief will be bliss.
143 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:26:46
And now, the end is near
And so I face the final curtain
My friend, I'll say it clear
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain
I've lived a life that's full
I've traveled each and every highway
But more, much more than this
I did it my way
Regrets, I've had a few
But then again, too few to mention
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption
I planned each charted course
Each careful step along the byway
And more, much more than this
I did it my way
Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it all, when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out
I faced it all and I stood tall
And did it my way
I've loved, I've laughed and cried
I've had my fill my share of losing
And now, as tears subside I find it all so amusing
To think I did all that
And may I say - not in a shy way
Oh no, oh no, not me
I did it my way
For what is a man, what has he got
If not himself, then he has naught
To say the things he truly feels
And not the words of one who kneels
The record shows I took the blows
And did it my way
Yes, it was my way
Fuck off, Martinez.
144 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:31:38
Jags didn't look anything like a leader who spoke for the team in a "bloody hard fight there. Not a great game but lads were giving it all" kind of interview. He looked thoroughly dispirited, dejected and speechless. It puts in clearer light that Leighton's comments were on behalf the team.
Hopefully, the Board will take action, hopefully immediate action, and lance the poison. To delay it will only make things worse, as I see no way back for Martinez after this.
There's Joe Royle around, Kevin Sheedy, Rhino, Dunc... enough expertise and competence to manage affairs until a permanent replacement is chosen.
145 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:32:05
Martinez has embarrassed himself, the player and the club by saying he's apologised. Bainesy has nothing to be sorry for. Mr Moshiri needs to take Martinez for a Taxi ride.
As for Jose for our next Manager, I am not sure, for one thing he would certainly wind up the RS, but it could end up just as bad as it is now.
Anybody else think that Bainsey will pick up a mysterious injury in training tomorrow?
146 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:33:03
Finally Prentice has grown a pair and written a critical article about this gobshite and hopefully the first of many.
He is flailing about in his desperation and has picked on probably the most balanced, least offensive, bright and intelligent guy in the squad. A Goodison great in the context of Wilson, Newton and Hinchcliffe. Not many better, Roberto, if you know your history.
This bloke is a total prick and if he leaves Baines out on Sunday it will confirm everything we are seeing.
Just fuck off, charlatan!
147 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:33:48
The poor judgement and lack of leadership demonstrated here is embarrassing at best though will likely prove suicidal especially now that the press are finally getting into it.
One thing Bill could never stomach is bad press.
148 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:33:59
149 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:34:10
"Martinez has managed to get this wrong on every level. I imagine in Robertos mind he will deal Baines out in the summer. Not that he will get the opportunity of course. Can you imagine what the dressing room thinks of this bullshit?!
Forget the Cup, the dressing room is currently moribund. No one's buying the manager anymore, players or fans."
Bobby Bullshit just leave, none of us are buying it, and now a member the team starts to give their honest opinions too, they're not buying it either.
150 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:36:56
I just hope "Brush it under the carpet" Bill will have the decision taken out of his hands.
151 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:37:59
153 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:39:04
Let's hope Moshiri has more insight and gets shut. It will be the best £8 mil that he will spend.
154 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:42:07
Anthony Taylor is the ref for the Semi-Final; he makes Twatenberg look like a decent ref.
155 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:42:15
Onwards and upwards!
156 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:42:27
Utter embarrassment to the club and incapable of admitting his own mistakes and shortcomings. Now he's shown himself to be a shithouse who'll happily piss all over one of our greatest professionals. He tried it with Eto'o and Distin and was given the benefit of the doubt, but not this time.
Mr Martinez, you'll alienated the players, the fans, and now the media. So just piss off.
157 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:50:45
Spurs, Liverpool and West Ham fans certainly don't tolerate it why should we just brush his guff under the mat each and every day.
158 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:51:42
Let Joe Royle and Kevin Sheedy, who's doing a superb job with the youths, take over first team duties until the end of the season.
159 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:51:59
ps: I'm sure severance payments would have been inserted into Roberto's contract(s) with the club. BK ain't that daft. Is he?
160 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:57:10
We need rid of this dangerous clown asap please,it's just unbelievable now.There must be someone with a set of balls at the club who can get him out.
161 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:01:53
162 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:02:51
Flags, banners and chants "We Want Martinez Out", you never know after his snake-oil selling is foiled, we may well now have a realistic chance of winning the FA Cup!
164 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:07:51
166 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:10:33
167 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:11:35
He's had to sell most of his best players two years on the trot and has still managed to get his team playing attractive football and challenging for a Europa place.
168 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:13:19
Everyone will see through this ill advised but insightful garbage..
Out out out.....
170 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:16:12
171 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:18:40
RM - "Leighton, tell the nice people you were misinterpreted and you are very, very sorry"
LB - (Blinking erratically) "I'm very, very sorry boss.
RM - "Leighton, tell the nice people that you and your team mates love and respect me".
LB - (Blinking madly) "We do, master, we loves you preciousssss"
Watching this on a grainy B&W telly in another room, multi-lingual want-away, Romelu Lukaku, looks at his bezzie, Super Kev, and says, "Mon dieu Kev, Bainsey is doing ze morse code wid ze eyes. Ee say, 'SOS, dis man ee a nutterrrr".
172 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:19:30
173 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:21:24
Sadly Baines told the truth. Martinez doesn't like players being outspoken and being critical of him. There appears to be a breakdown in communication between the manager and players. Only ever one winner there! However, this is Everton!!
174 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:24:13
Hope the end to this "era" is finally in sight; totally agree with others saying he should go now, FA cup or not.
175 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:25:51
176 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:31:18
Wigan had had four years in the PL before Martinez took the lead. In those four seasons they suffered only eight 4 - 0 hammerings, but nothing worse. That's only two per season on average.
In the worst 15 of Martinez's Premier League defeats during HIS four years as boss of Wigan the aggregate score was 74 - 1. Yes folks, 74 - 1..... truly. And the “1â€ came in a 9 â€“ 1 defeat......truly. Leaving his one goal aside that's very close on four 5-0 hammerings per season for four consecutive seasons, and never mind the other defeats, of which there were plenty.
Taking over a team that had been 11th the season before, in his first season he had the distinction of conceding the most goals, by 12, than any other surviving team. Only one surviving club scored less than Wigan too, and all three relegated teams had better goal differences. Wigan ended 16th, their best ever position whilst he was there.
In fairness I'm sure he'd claim improvement in his second season because he only had the worst goal difference of all the surviving clubs. In his third season he “improvedâ€ again, because there was actually one surviving club with a worse goal difference.
Then, after such year-on-year improvement Wigan had a disappointing moment, as he might say, because he achieved relegation.â€¦
And then Kenwright signed him.
So, if Martinez (or Kenwright) is looking for an incredible legacy as a phenomenal manager in the Premier League the above did it for me even before he continued his charlatan/pants-on-fire performance with us. He's done zilch to change my mind. He's a fake......yet some are still in the thrall of what he calls a “great philosophyâ€. Dream on.
What a manager indeed!!!!
177 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:35:12
Then you have the differences in contracts, some of them also not giving 100%, the defenders are letting soft goals in too often and so on. Add to that Stones and Lukaku wanting to leave and play for a 'big club' in Europe.
Nobody came back and pointed out where he criticises the manager. All this anti-Martinez crap in both threads is based on what you want to believe, not on the facts.
I think you should take a minute or two to actually read what Baines said!
178 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:37:56
179 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:38:29
180 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:44:15
181 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:45:54
As for Kenwright, shame on you for your unswerving and continued support for this fraudulent manager. Do yourself and us a favour by publicly withdrawing that ridiculous comment you made after the quarter-final.
182 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:52:11
Forget the team performance, anyone acting like this has no place in our club.
183 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:53:09
So the manager comes out and, for reasons I find difficult to fathom, says that Baines has been misquoted and misinterpreted, but has apologised.
I can't see any point in this, other than an attempted show of strength by a manager looking and sounding increasingly out of his depth.
I'm not one for pedalling 'facts' about what's going on behind the scenes. This doesn't look good to me. His results, his team's performances and his increasingly hollow "jam tomorrow" statements aren't helping his authority. I can't see how publicising an alleged misquoting and unnecessary apology can give him any more credibility with anybody.
184 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:58:06
Robbie Robbie Robbie out out out
185 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:59:21
When you are implying that the team fashioned by a manager is not gelling, not coming together as the manager says it will, when you say there is no chemistry, it implicitly suggests that there is no bond between the players and manager. That's why Martinez hung Baines out to dry, because it put HIM in the firing line.
Martinez understands this... which is exactly why he has done what he has done to Baines. He could have chosen to privately express his annoyance with Baines but no, he obviously felt an opportunity to blame someone else, again, for his inability to put a team together with tactics that work.
186 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:00:23
You can just imagine the media team at Everton before the press conference: "You can't ask Roberto if he is deluded. You can't ask Roberto if he watches the same games as the rest of us. You can't ask Roberto if he has lost the dressing room. You can ask Roberto if he is looking forward to the cup semi-final." Whilst Everton media dictates he only answers biased questions, we will never get him to confront all the questions that we need answers to.
Roberto is like an Iraqi leader that tells you all is well when his troops are being obliterated, and the portrait that was erected on the side of the stadium seems so appropriate now... ha ha.
187 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:05:48
Players will have lost all respect now for Martinez.
188 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:07:12
189 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:13:57
190 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:17:26
191 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:28:31
192 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:32:23
Bainsey, you're class.
193 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:33:20
Today's press conference was the most ridiculous yet, he's alienated everyone surely now, he's an embarrassment to the club. He's the luckiest manager in the Premier League; at no other club would he still have a job.
194 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:37:23
What got me, and I guess many others, was Roberto's response. Bainsey said something that I found hit the nail on the head "a lack of chemistry."
How our manager reacted was worthy of the severe criticism he has received because he came out publicly and said what he said. Leighton felt there was something missing in the team's make up. He said it to Phil Kirkbride, as I understand, as he was walking down the tunnel after the match. It wasn't a prepared statement, I feel it was what he felt and had done so for some time.
Roberto then went further and put his own interpretation on the issue regarding team moral and that's fair enough I suppose. But to follow that up with a public dressing down of a senior player and to then follow it by accusing the Echo Report "misinterpreting" Bainseys' words is tantamount to accusing the local press of lying. I liked what Dave Prentice did, as he thoroughly repudiated what Martinez implied.
I think that's the reason a lot of people, including me who has supported Roberto up until his excuses started coming out, have just about had it with the man. I don't see the episode as "Martinez bashing exercise." I see the vast majority of posts on here are saying enough is enough.
I cannot see him having the continuing respect of the team after this. My view is that he should step down now before the situation goes worse.
195 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:43:18
Jim, with respect, he was making similar excuses when manager of Wigan. This behaviour is NOT new.
196 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:51:03
197 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:51:50
Please someone within the club, grow a pair of balls and sack this fraud before it's too late.
198 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:56:30
I have to agree with Andy. A lot of posters seem to think that this is the first time Martinez has made an arse of himself.
Why were not these posters as vociferous last season as nothing has changed?
Even more disgusting was when he blamed the support for his team's inadequacies. That was far worse than this Baines situation.
199 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:17:35
What happens if we implode at Watford and Leighton has been dropped? Chanting Leighton's name will surely send a clear message. Alternatively 'Fuck Off, Martinez' would do the trick but I reckon we're too classy for that.
200 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:17:37
Sadly Martinez will be in the dugout next season.
201 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:18:09
Most though, I just find it very sad and demoralising to see how hate consumes people's lives and clouds their judgement and morality.
Baines is a 'hero' now... should get an ovation... be made captain... for causing the manager a problem.
Same Leighton Baines who hasn't topped a cross for about two years, defends like a traffic cone, and is utterly fucking useless without Pienaar.
Strange how people's minds work! My enemies enemy is my friend, eh.
Maybe if the little soft arse got a proper haircut and started playing like a man instead of a ponce, then we would keep a few more clean sheets. Just a crazy thought like.
202 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:23:50
"Maybe if the little soft arse [Baines] got a proper haircut and started playing like a man instead of a ponce".
As you say, Neil, hate consumes and clouds judgement! Condemned by your own standards.
203 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:24:08
Martinez is seriously doing my head in! I can't take much more of him. Sick of it all. I have followed this club for 30 years and I can't remember feeling like this about any manager.
I am losing more respect for Martinez as each day goes by. How is he failing with this squad? How? I need some happy pills! Anyone?
204 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:24:58
205 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:26:00
If Moshiri is pumping money into our great club, he's not going to stand idly by while this clown destroys it. I'd rather he went sooner rather than later defeat in the semi or final will be the final straw for me and he should resign if that happened... yet we all know he's too arrogant and stubborn to do the right thing.
Utterly disgraceful the way he has hung Baines out to dry. Get out of our club you sorry excuse for a manager you don't deserve to stand on the touchline of the hallowed turf. Sod off and let someone else who knows how football works show you how it's done.
209 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:32:14
I'll be happy to debate all the issues you've raised with you and Andy personally over a pint or on a thread devoted to the reasons some supported the manager longer than others.
In fact, for the record, and I put it on ToffeeWeb about his comments regarding us. That was one of the "excuses" I was referring to.
I don't believe that the term "excuses" was my right choice. It was the beginning of me noticing his penchant for sliding blame onto others.
I don't think it was more disgusting to blame the supporters. I thought it was disgusting to blame the supporters and I think it was equally disgusting for him to come out and publicly castigate Baines and then follow it up by implying that the Echo had, in fact, lied. I think that will also make the team moral lower than it already is
As for "those posters not as vociferous last season" (that includes me) I can only speak for myself. There was no reason for me to. I wasn't calling for him to go. I was looking forward to a better season this season and I often put my views on ToffeeWeb, that he'd had to cope with a lot of long-term injuries for the first part of last season and in my view things began to improve in the second half of the season.
So don't make the mistake of judging people on their perception of his ability (or lack of it) to mould a good football side, as we all see football differently. For me this is aside from his football management skills or lack of them. I didn't see that he'd lost the dressing room last season.
What I think about the man now is that he will stoop at nothing to shove the blame onto others. That is why I'm saying that he should go because this episode has blown all previous support/ non support arguments apart.
What I've said is that I don't think he can continue any longer having said what he has.
211 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:37:03
Baines has consciously been honest and effective, and done this for the club, he has more spiritual knowledge and understanding in his little left toe, of our club, than the self-ordained high priest of bullshit will ever have. Sad days, but from despair, will come fresh hope. It will happen.
Farhad Moshiri must be decisive and lance this Spanish ulcer for good. The club must look forward, and 24 months of bullshit, excuses, arrogance and contempt must be closed and a new dawn heralded, Moshiri surely must see the true picture? The fans don't lie, the Premier League table, don't lie and facts over the last two seasons don't lie.
How did Martinez ever get his license as an FA pro coach?
212 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:38:14
I find it sad though that only 1,771 Everton Fans have signed that Martinez out petition..............GET ON THERE BLUES AND SIGN IT!!!
We need this clown out of our club now regardless of the sodding FA Cup.
213 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:39:36
Perhaps there should be a players' revolt with others backing him. Mirallas is said to have been outspoken as well, look what has happened to him this season. Good enough for his country but on occasions not even good enough for our bench. A huge protest needs to be made by the fans at the next home game and I mean huge. This guy just has to go NOW.
I am 76 yrs and saw my first match when I was 7 years old. There have been some crap managers in that time but I have never known one who insinuated "Everyone is out of step but me."
SAVE EVERTON FC
MARTINEZ OUT NOW.
215 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:41:47
Some players haven't been buying him for a year or more. Coleman has been consistently underperforming & not really enjoying his football. To my eyes anyway. I think the tipping point may have been the West Ham game. The performances have visibly dropped off.
I just don't understand how he thinks mis-representing the whole situation, in terms of what Baines has said & the Echo's role in reporting it, can possibly help. He must have serious problems in the dressing room & is desperate to assert himself.
But nothing works. Threats of no future, no FA Cup semi place, the Man Utd game was the reaction after Arsenal(!)... nothing works. He's done.
216 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:41:50
So the reason why Baines is being applauded is because, after three years of being led by Heather McCarthy and having to listen to his poppycock, we have an honest response to our inept displays and in turn his rather poor tactics.
217 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:43:37
Are you ok?
Really, you seem to come on here determined to post something stupendous or incendiary.
I will concede Leighton's form hasn't been great for 2 years but the same goes for Seamus. Coincidence?
Plus, we have been led to believe we don't practice corners so that can't exactly help one of our corner takers now can it?
And why bring his hair cut into it?
When we signed Leighton and Jags in 2007 I was delighted, seeing them as two mainstays for our team for many years. Neither has disappointed me. If you were talking about Aiden McGeady, it might have some sway... but Leighton Baines?
218 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:45:13
I admire him for his frankness; hopefully a few more will show some backbone and do the same.
And for those of you who want Martinez out, then I suggest you do the same from the terraces with voices and banners. He is not worthy.
220 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:48:12
221 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:49:03
Baines has a right to his opinion, even if, in this age of "Don't do as I do, just do as I say", the man has lost the plot completely by humiliating a man who epitomises local loyalty to his club and its fans; something sadly lacking in the foreign imports.
223 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:55:31
225 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:58:03
Cheated in one semi-final in Manchester, I honestly think Taylor fucking hates us, and it won't surprise me if the same thing happens at Wembley, if this is true.
226 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:58:06
I don't believe, Sr Martinez, for one minute that Leighton Baines has apologised for anything, since you, Señor, are a liar and a dissembler of information, and a delusional megalomaniac, and it is hard to see where each one of those "qualities" starts and finishes along the scale of lies and delusion.
Liar!! GO!! GO NOW!!
227 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:03:13
So far as I know, Man United are not yet in the semi-final and you could equally argue that someone from the North West should not referee a NW team against a London team if that was the outcome.
Let's not prepare excuses just yet eh? That's "Manuel's" modus operandi surely?
228 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:10:31
Roberto Martinez has got no credibility left now, it's very sad, but he should go.....right now!
230 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:15:10
In the end, it's taken one of our own to expose what many of us have been saying all season. Martinez has now lost the fans, the local press and the dressing room. He won't recover from that.
Wembley seems an irrelevance right now. His disgraceful comments regarding Baines are the nail in his own coffin. Thanks Leighton, thanks again.
231 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:17:32
I honestly believe that Taylor hates us, and if I'm right and we go out of another cup because of poor refereeing, all the excuses in the world will mean nothing.
I also think your last sentence was without much thought, Joe, when everybody in football knows about the intense hatred in football, between Mancs and Scousers, when it comes to football.
232 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:22:34
But we are past refereeing decisions. We have a set of players who can hurt anyone. They're currently mis-managed.
I wouldn't put it past them to trash either Utd at Wembley.
Under Moyes when officials decisions went against us I was sometimes appalled and other times thought "Well, yes, Davey, but you told them to drop back and defend deep, thus bringing the opposition onto us."
Under Martinez I just think "You are leaving too much to chance by not defending properly and not managing the game properly."
There is luck and then there is asking for trouble. Martinez invites the latter.
233 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:24:39
You are the one showing the hatred.
Leighton Baines is a model pro. Gets his head down, does his job and is no publicity seeker or trouble causer.
Everyone else sees the deluded bullshitter for what he is and I am not talking about Bill.
234 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:28:30
And so, so much more powerful and more of an insight into what is really happening in the dressing room without modification by Martinez' Orwellian Doublethink and Newspeak. So, despite my post above, it is possible LB has apologised for breaking ranks unintentionally, or maybe it really was Macchiavellian and intentional (Machiavelli? And a professional footballer? In the same sentence?), or he has just had enough. But the motivation doesn't matter as either way the cat is well and truly out of the bag, and El Thicko has only served to highlight the fact instead of dampening down. He just can't help his own gob, whatever he tries to do to shut up his players.
Luke Garbutt anyone?
235 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:29:34
We have, in Martinez, a man who was in my opinion, putting together one hell of a young, talented squad. There's a lot of positives from his reign. They've been done to death, I see no sense in re-treading the old arguments (especially now that I've called for his removal). ;0)
But I just wonder where the hell it all went wrong - especially the last 3-4 weeks. Arsenal, Man U... the players were just terrible to be honest. There's no fight, no passion... and it was after last week's game where it seemed there's just no return, for me personally at any rate.
Now these comments from Martinez. Why? Does he not realize the polarizing effects of his comments between himself and the players? It's like scorched earth around Goodison lately.
He simply must go now. There's no other way I see out of this. The players aren't playing, they clearly aren't happy, and Roberto is hanging veteran players out to dry IN PUBLIC. What did Leighton say that's so gawd-awful??
It truly is a mess and something must be done about it.
I saw a future under this man. The open play, the signings, the concentration on youth... He was implementing a culture from top to bottom that would surely see growing pains but could have really found gold in the end.
Seems the last 3 weeks he's turned any degree of hope into a steaming pile of shit. And the crazy thing is, he's not helping himself at all with his comments.
What could have been... he has to go. The whole atmosphere is cancerous.
236 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:32:40
But if Roberto felt people were using the comments to unfairly beat him up then he completely misjudged his response. He made the comments about him. Baines had spoken sense, it was Martinez who changed the meaning.
Martinez obviously has shortcomings. I want the guy gone but I really thought he had one set of smarts... the ability to keep players, management and media onside. He just blew his cover on those.
There's no-one left who can't see that the emperor is naked. His bollocks more evident than ever. All that's left is for Bill or Moshiri to put a towel around him and march him out of the spotlight.
237 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:33:01
You missed the point. Man Utd aren't in the semi-final yet. Read my post again. You can't claim Man Utd referee bias just yet.
As for Manuel have you not seen Faulty Towers?
238 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:36:59
Doesn't matter when it was, but to try and paper over what Baines said like this, is very, very insulting, to anyone who is connected to Everton FC.
239 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:38:30
Leighton Baines has been spoken out and spoken the truth. Martinez has disgracefully tried to humiliate him in the press.
These are the last actions of a despotic bully trying to cover his own backside. The board fiddles while Everton burn.
240 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:40:16
You come across as a little confused/bemused/disappointed. A bit like a Creationist at a Dawkins lecture to be honest.
There is a much simpler explanation which answers all your heartfelt questions in your post and it is nothing to do with the last 3-4 weeks.
You maybe aren't quite all the way there yet, but if you take the approach of Occam's Razor, think on the posts many on here been have been submitting for a very long time now, and challenge your own thinking just a little bit more, it may all fall into place.
Just a suggestion.
242 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:44:10
Will never happen yet raises happy memories.
In real world, I seriously think the board won't get rid even if we go out of the Cup and are done at our former home.
I have this horrible feeling he'll still be here in June.
243 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:44:32
244 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:45:19
245 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:48:31
I'm sure Moshiri is already looking for replacements. Sacking Martinez is only half the job, replacing him with someone who can get us Champions League football is a task and a half.
Moshiri will turn into a fan favourite as soon as he sacks Martinez. I, for one, will be crying with joy. I cannot see our club suffer anymore, each passing day with Martinez is just more agony. Watching our team suffer like this prevents me from wanting us to progress to the final; if that's the cost of Martinez's head then so be it. Maybe a loss to Watford would be enough, here's to wishful thinking.
246 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:49:32
It's all speculation when it comes to predicting how things will pan out in the Boardroom, but your scenario (of Kenwright getting the other Directors to outvote Moshiri based on share ownership) definitely won't be one of them as there is a whopping 30% of shareholders who are NOT represented on the Board. This means that 49.9% of the outstanding shares gives Moshiri 70.6% effective personal control of the Board.
As we keep saying on here, Moshiri has more than effective control, if it were to come to that. But it doesn't seem likely, as Kenwright is now a minority owner. He may hold sway over Moshiri based on personality and experience in the role â€“ that can't be ruled out â€“ and friendship or trust can easily be soured (Ã la Paul Gregg).
It's getting to the point where something has to be done, and maybe Moshiri sees what's what... but we have no idea. We simply don't know.
247 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:59:24
For what it's worth I agree with Brian Williams at #204.
248 Posted 07/04/2016 at 00:02:19
The reality is in the demise our our club, this fella's ego and immense sense of immortality is far more important than anything else. The body language, tone and reducing appetite for fair feedback and dialogue, shows of a man at the end of the road, but for no good reasons, he has cultivated well his own hole to fall in.
This month, God help us, but the BBS and Fraud Manager, ever known at EFC, must be taken out of control of this team. Temporary fix: Sheeds, and Reidy lead by Unsworth for the last few games, could at least galvanise some pride, which was lost at Bournemouth, and Man Utd at home, and has sank and been lost since.
So to bring in some, much needed guts and bottle, and a new manager to be secured asap. This terminal damage must be contained, the kids of today can't be scared by this farce any more. Worst period in history and due to the manager's tardy reluctance to show contrition and humility, it is for me the final conflict.
249 Posted 07/04/2016 at 00:05:07
It went from good (in spasms plus frustrations as well) to losing silly points regularly and then to the excuses and sliding blame onto external factors until finally this.
I agree with you, there is no way back from this. I hope the Board will take action but with Kenwright their, I don't see it. The only way will be if Mr Moshiri dives right in and sorts out the situation and tell Roberto "Thanks for your efforts, goodbye and good luck in the future."
250 Posted 07/04/2016 at 00:07:42
251 Posted 07/04/2016 at 00:08:24
I am confused... a bit. I thought there was "a way forward" so to speak. Turns out not to be that way.
Disappointed yes. Because, despite the fact you may think an American who's never been to Goodison can't possibly think this way... I'm disappointed every time we lose. And I'm very disappointed in the current climate and landscape.
I do take on board dissenting views. It would appear, as you've warned previously, I put too much stock in "hope". But don't think just because I held to my guns for a longer period than most, that I didn't take on board all the arguments and viewpoints contrary to my own. I just, at those particular points in time, disagreed and wanted to wait a bit longer to see how this "experiment" would pan out. An experiment that, in my opinion, could have yielded fantastic dividends.
But I did have real hope. And for that I stood firm.
That's gone now. The Club needs to act and soon. Roberto must go.
As you've been saying for some time now.
252 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:14:30
If we lose both then I think the board have to act and remove him. Put Joe Royle in charge with back up from the likes of Ferguson, Sheedy and Unsworth till the end of season.
253 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:18:05
Don't mention Harold... I am still upset I learned only last night of his passing. I liked him a lot, just like I do you telling us you post after some big uphill walk...
Back on topic Moyes left a legacy which Martinez is ruining.
254 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:23:46
Under Martinez, Baines is now an understudy to Danny Rose just think about that. Jags is now a backup to Smalling and Cahill!! Stones has gone backwards as we all know. No, Señor Roberto you should apologise for taking apart one of the best defences in the Premier League.
I really do believe you think you are up to managing Barca and you saw Everton as the stepping stone for your delusional dream. Please go and on the way out tell Baines you apologise for not only hanging him out to dry to cover up your numerous shortcomings but for ruining his England career too. Adios!
255 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:26:38
MARTINEZ OUT.......NOW.......I don't want him at the Semi-Final â€“ as it seems such a distraction for him and the team!??
Mr Moshiri time for that chat to Blue Bill!
256 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:35:01
Seriously though, his own words should now be enough to consign him to a footnote in Everton's history. Surely the feeling against him can now only fester and grow and will hopefully boil over into all out hatred at our next home game. I only wish it was this week.
Something has to be done to get this parasite out of our club. I say parasite because he sits there blaming everyone else for the team's woes whilst earning millions of pounds and doing fuck all to correct or change the situation. I most heartily despise him and in 57 years of supporting Everton have never felt like this about a manager before.
For God's sake let's hope the board have the balls to get rid, the sooner the better. If not, I can see the team imploding between now and the end of the season.
Leighton Baines forever, Martinez never!!!
Now there's a good chant for the next few games.
257 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:45:34
Calls himself a blue? If I was sat on that bench I'd strangle Martinez. Bring back Stubbs and have Unsworth as his number 2. Please make my yellow bar dream a reality and soon.
258 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:49:49
Martinez is a charlatan. Baines was open and honest and Martinez has picked on the wrong man.
I back Baines. Please leave, Martinez.
259 Posted 08/04/2016 at 01:08:03
Keep posting, Neil. If anyone on TW is going to whip up a shitstorm against Martinez and force the board to act, it's you. Crack on, mate... I think it's brilliant. Very good!
C'mon Farhad and Bill Act Now, PLEASE!!!
260 Posted 08/04/2016 at 01:38:30
He's such a man who believes he's always right so to be removed from his job before HE feels he's had enough time to fulfil his ambitions will feel to him like our loss and his gain. He'll spout that he's the victim of the club's shortsightedness as the team were on the cusp of greatness.
After things inevitably improve once he's gone, he'll then pontificate how he was right all along in a similar fashion to how Mike Walker did after the midweek derby win which was Big Joe's first game.
261 Posted 08/04/2016 at 01:41:08
262 Posted 08/04/2016 at 01:44:27
'Tis the only way to cope.
263 Posted 08/04/2016 at 01:46:34
I'm like you. I could see the positives in an appointment like Martinez. No,I wasn't happy with his appointment but I could see what he could bring. To be fair, he even followed through on some of those.
I gave him time, I held onto some hope. I don't feel particularly foolish for that, nor should you.
He's a gonner now.
My greatest fear, though, is that we do another 180 degree turn. Functional football might have us higher up the league with a lesser chance of ever winning anything.
264 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:12:29
First, is Cardiff away. Baines (probably the most honest player ever) runs, full throttle into the area and is SCYTHED down for what was the most nailed-on spot-kick you'll ever see. What happens? Ref turns away uninterested.
Fast forward a few weeks and it's away at Villa; their player is contesting with Seamus and the ball goes out, but the Villa player falls over never a pen and before he even hits the deck, the twat in black has the whistle in his scabby mouth.
What's the connection between these two incidents? Well as you've probably guessed, it's Anthony 'I hate Everton' Taylor.
Now although I have no time for Moyes, I think he would have brought this to the attention of the (sweet) FA, and more importantly the media. Will the 'Weak One' do the same, or just blame Baines's comment if we lose?
265 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:16:32
If you haven't done so chaps, take a look at his true Wigan record, above at #176.
In the cold, hard, miserable UK you'd be sectioned if you said his record of Wigan spoke of rich promise or anything like it, but here, as I'm sure you recall, the chances of sunstroke are zero.
For Dave Whelan read "Del Boy". And then for Blue Bill read "Trigger".
"Trigger"? Oh, the irony. Kenwright's so far up his own ass he's long since disappeared as a credible chairman. He'll never pull the trigger.
So please, Mr Moshiri, just get rid of the pair of them.
266 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:17:21
I look out for your posts, I like that you will challenge posts you disagree with, even when its with me... but "Vile"? Come on? You're better than that.
I've been a long-time critic of Martinez, I've never really believed he was good enough for us and have said so on an almost daily basis, but emotions are running very high and some of the comments on here are (IMO) going beyond the acceptable.
He's not vile, He's not a cunt, He doesn't want to pipe enchanting music to our children, leading them to disappear forever into a mountain in Gwynedd... he just isn't as good as people told him he was. That's all.
Criticise him by all means, but know his time here is very nearly at an end. Let him keep what's left of his dignity and for fuck's sake, let's make sure we keep ours.
We're not Geordies That's probably why we don't get relegated on a regular basis.
267 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:30:56
"I put too much stock in hope."
So does everyone else in here mate. Don't let them tell you any different.
268 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:39:48
What would happen if (pray to God it doesn't) we lose to Southampton (9th home defeat of the season), a hiding from the RS with a weakened team, and worst of the worst no effort in the semi final?
If so, would there be any preparations or protests for the Bournemouth game a week later if Martinez is still there?
269 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:46:03
You may have just summed up my near 3 years of hope under Roberto more succinctly than I could have ever done.
Functional football might have us higher up the league with a lesser chance of ever winning anything.
I'm with you 100% on that one. Absolutely, positively spot on.
270 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:51:38
Every thread that mentions Martinez just turns into a mass vent - pitchforks and flaming torches are grabbed and the castle is stormed (except..it isn't).
'You think you're angry, wait til you read what I'M going to say!'
(by the way, who is 'GO NOW!' actually aimed at?)
Imo 95% of all RM posts could be replaced by 'Martinez - GRRRRR!! and we'd be no less enlightened.
271 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:56:36
272 Posted 08/04/2016 at 03:10:01
Darren @ 267 - yes.
**Darren mate, if you ever come stateside, I've got a beer for you and I've got your back with my pump action Winchester, Smith & Wesson AR-15-.22, Remington 700 .30-06, Canick TP9SA 9MM, and Glock 42 .380.
Anyone messes with you, they mess with me... ;0)
** The above was an American style joke to a fellow TWer who will unequivocally understand it was a joke made to him with warmness and affection... Do not be offended, please minimally giggle or simply disregard.
273 Posted 08/04/2016 at 03:13:25
The vitriol and the repetitive venom is: (1) unnecessary (2) embarrassing (3) unfair to someone none of us know off the pitch.
All you need to say is this: he has had three years; it isn't working; he is one of the main architects in his own downfall; his public statements reek now of desperation and, even more sadly, a lack of balance, and (this is the atomic one) he has never NEVER! if my memory serves took a significant degree of not blame but responsibility both in terms of individual games or the collective and chronological malaise.
Let's really narrow it down: for me it has been 2 holding mids home and away ALWAYS and playing lads out wide who are not natrual - forgive me - wide boys when there is natural width straining at the leash on the bench.
There's no need to call him xxxx or xxxxx or xxxxxx or xxxxxxx (in what sometimes seems to be a race to out xxxxxxx the other fella).
The Arsenal game was a death blow for this already sceptic and his public handing of himself and here blue blood Leighton reveals a level of avoidance and misconception and miscalculation that takes me back to the days of Mike Walker (erm Andy mate, no way is Martinez the worst ever manager).
Martinez is gone. I suspect he knows this already. I suspect he has been told so already (that might partly explain this recent litany of public tripe).
My hunch - that's all it is - is that Moshiri is putting in a shift behind the scenes and not just in terms of bagging more shares. No way does Kenwright call the shots in the summer. Moshiri has already decided - perhaps before he got his 49.9 - that Bobby is history.
We will have a new gaffer for 2016-17 and if I am only partly right about Moshiri no way - thank God - will it be the bookies apparent current favourite.
That would be more distressing to me than Martinez being in the hot season when we open the season at Brighton away (you heard that here first).
275 Posted 08/04/2016 at 05:09:11
"We expect a senior figure at Everton to take responsibility"
Yes Roberto you are the senior figure and you should be taking responsibility for our terrible season and up until now you continue to blame everybody else. The Watford manager recently said that it was his fault his team haven't won long in the league for 10 or so games and they are also distracted by the FA Cup and that shouldn't be the case and as manager it isn't acceptable and he needs to put it right and as a team they shouldn't accept such low standards.
Now if Roberto actually came out with something like this then it would be refreshing but he hasn't got the guts too and instead he uses the cup competitions to justify his managerial credentials.
He is a weak, cowardly manager who will soon get what he deserves, I hope!!
277 Posted 08/04/2016 at 06:43:04
278 Posted 08/04/2016 at 06:46:19
If that half-dozen includes the FA Cup, he can start planning for next season. Such is the fickleness of football supporters!
(And the intransigence of our football club chairman.)
279 Posted 08/04/2016 at 07:06:08
280 Posted 08/04/2016 at 07:13:07
I especially like the he footnote regarding the start of next season. on was 'quite phenomenal. The Redshites had a dream start ; Away to Stoke; the opportunity to make amends for their close out debacle. No motivation requited! The only time in premier league history that the last match was repeated from 1 season to the next! No bias there obviously.
As Liverpool will be at home, then of course Everton will be away to a promoted side. That is the was of things.
Why Everton's managerial dilemma is being blatantly ignored is a reinforcement of their dismissive view of the Club. However if we get rid of Martinez I believe the tide will turn eventually. At the moment I have got faith in Moshiri because a) he has obviously delivered big time in the past to have achieved what he has, and b)
his silence at this point in time speaks volumes. He has appointed his right hand man to the board and that's enough for now.
COYB - NSNO
281 Posted 08/04/2016 at 07:34:41
I try to take a measured view on all things Everton, something that can be difficult to do about a club that means so much. But I made up my mind about Roberto Martinez some time ago, and it has been painful to attend matches and witness his sheer incompetence and pig-headedness. The torpor of the crowd (me included) has been brain-numbing, and now I am delighted that a head of steam has been built up to rid ourselves of a man who is a danger to Everton FC.
Personally, I don't want him anywhere near the semi-final and maybe, just maybe, a wave of anger may bring about his departure.
Up the Toffees. Now, what time does the pitchfork shop open?
282 Posted 08/04/2016 at 07:47:57
Half-a-dozen wins? Given the fickleness of football fans everywhere, I will say he is just two wins away from salvation... both at Wembley.
I pray I am wrong and a giant foot comes down from the sky to squash Snr Martinez (Monty Python style). Preferably today.
283 Posted 08/04/2016 at 08:23:45
The issue continues to gather momentum. Would a loss at Watford seal his fate?
I almost feel sorry for him on the 16th against Southampton. Even then, he won't walk, he will have to be sacked.
284 Posted 08/04/2016 at 08:49:21
Tony (#277), very good choice of song mate, and Mick @264, I went to bed last night honestly thinking I would prefer Clattenberg to ref the 1st half, Atkinson to ref the 2nd, and if it goes to extra time we can bring back Clive Thomas, rather than have this horrible man, "in charge" at Wembley!!
285 Posted 08/04/2016 at 08:50:29
286 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:04:41
Apart from his many obvious coaching deficiencies, it's his big gob (for want of a better expression) that has set me against him. Never have I heard so much delusional, inane bullshit in all my life as during his tenure.
288 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:16:00
289 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:20:34
He has to go.
290 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:25:55
This control freak is showing his true colours he is not the nice guy many like to think he is. He is poisoning our club and needs to be removed before he does any more damage.
291 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:33:51
Don't want to become the next Newcastle but 3 seasons is a more than fair crack at the whip and things have never looked worse under his tenure.
Let's hope Moshiri will find the right man to step into the hotseat.
292 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:35:16
I'm sick of hearing about how great the individual talents are in the squad (I accept the point but repetition inflates expectations) when the real issues seem to be that the team is short in key areas (we must the only squad that needs two goalkeepers). The squad lacks depth in others while has a surplus of talent in some areas (contrast right and left side of midfield for example), some of the star names seem to be ready to jump ship (understandable in circumstances does anyone expect Stones and Lukaku to be around next year?) and a number of the promising youngsters don't seem to ready for first team squad aged 19/20.
A lot of this is down to leadership and management so it is clear where the blame lies. I can now add to the list of gripes about Martinez (whose appointment I supported but he has lost his way badly) is that the tendency to criticise some players in public while letting others off the hook is simply unacceptable and is really not fitting behaviour for someone in his role.
Feels like a semi-final defeat could trigger an unravelling that would be the beginning of the end.
293 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:59:05
The charlatan has really cooked his own goose this time, I think. Belittling one of our senior and most loyal players for simply speaking the truth is both unwarranted and totally unacceptable.
Get rid of him, someone, please!
294 Posted 08/04/2016 at 10:05:37
295 Posted 08/04/2016 at 10:09:03
296 Posted 08/04/2016 at 10:15:40
He was accepted by most as one of the best left backs in Europe.
He was knocking in penalties (one of the highest conversion rates of all players) and free kicks for fun.
He was nailed on for England's left back berth after Cole who he displaced.
His marauding runs up the left flank were devastating (mainly with Pienaar).
His free kicks and corners were landing on a sixpence.
Not going to the Euros
Never takes a pen or direct free kick - left to Rom to flap about. I'm amazed when any of his apparently scuffed pens actually go in so was not a bit surprised against West Ham.
Seems unable 50% of the time to get his free kicks past the first man.
And generally seems not to be the man (player) he was.
RM seems to have sucked the life out of Leighton and I believe if he was not such a staunch Evertonian he would be off in a shot. And I wouldn't blame him.
And as for his quote and interpretation of same, and RM's view of what was said. Actually sounds like my wife 50% of the time the words that come out of my mouth are not the same words that land in her ears. RM's got the same problem.
And right now the thought of him parading around with the FA Cup if we can pull it off is depressing.
297 Posted 08/04/2016 at 10:28:42
One thing that I can agree on is that Martinez should have re-instated Baines as penalty taker after Mirallas-gate. No way is Rom a good penalty taker despite what the stats may prove.
Oh and I can share the sentiments regarding misinterpretation by the wife too!
298 Posted 08/04/2016 at 11:19:15
Need to restore tempo
"Martinez said that Everton, who have lost their last three league games, need to rediscover the “intensityâ€ and “tempoâ€ from their FA Cup quarter-final win over Chelsea.
And the Blues boss insists the formation and balance they had that night at Goodison is what they must strive for in the remainder of the campaign"
I guess, Bobby Bullshit, you're talking about a "lack of chemistry" you complete tool!!
299 Posted 08/04/2016 at 11:38:20
I wanted Martinez and defended him right up to the West Ham game.
There comes a tipping point when you ask yourself the question:-
"Is it more important for this manager to be proven right or is it more important that he does what is right for Everton?"
His substitutions in that games were akin to a player trying a Paneka penalty watching the goalie save it and then getting another penalty and doing the same. Pure arrogance and a complete disregard for his duty as an Everton manager.
How dare he say "Baines was misquoted and apologised" when every single fan agreed with what Baines said... Baines could have been more honest and brutal but he never- he has more respect than to do that.
His "project" is up. In the words of Maximus to Commodus "The time for honouring yourself will soon be at an end"....
300 Posted 08/04/2016 at 11:40:43
I've thought that for a long time, and I blame Martinez. I have said before that I believe Martinez is a real Jekyll and Hyde character and is probably quite intimidating behind closed doors. If you look at the characters of our squad and the perceived lack of spine and leadership qualities which many on here maintain, that may make them quite susceptible to a negative reaction from a domineering control-freak type of person.
I don't necessarily agree with the lack of leadership qualities but it does seem that some of the stronger characters have been ostracised in the past for whatever reason. We all know the names, but cutting back to the chase, Baines in my view is under performing for reasons other than injury, just missing Stevie and tactical balls ups.
As are many of the squad for that matter...
301 Posted 08/04/2016 at 12:05:45
There must be other factors involved and trying to attach all current issues to a lamentable manager does smack a little of "pitchfork" mentality to me. It's like people are trying to seek out ever more outlandish reasons to prove something that is blatantly obvious anyway: Martinez is not good enough
302 Posted 08/04/2016 at 12:10:09
303 Posted 08/04/2016 at 12:27:41
304 Posted 08/04/2016 at 13:50:51
The players have no faith in Martinez any longer, and seem to be waiting for him to go. We need someone higher up in the cub, to tell us as fans, and the players, what is going on, and to state how long Martinez has, if any, because right now, there is no stability in the club, as no one knows who will or will not be here next season.
Either say Martinez has got another season to get it right (yes, I know its unlikely,) but at least that gives the players some kind of future planing, because like I said, at the moment nobody knows what is going on! Or fire him now, and make the players play for their position for next season.
305 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:00:27
Baines will be backed 100% by us over RM any day of the week, and the Echo have done the right thing in saying Martinez is basically full of shit, and Bainesy was right, so I see this as the real beginning of the end hopefully.
The players will all side with Bainesy as well, you can guarantee that. I get the feeling that Martinez isn't well liked any more, and not just by us supporters. The players are turning, the press are turning, even the die-hard Martinez supporters on here have turned.
Let's hope for a mutiny!
306 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:06:05
307 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:14:25
308 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:19:32
I think the answer to your question is Bill Kenwright, the man who employed this deluded failure and fantasist.
What a manager eh Bill, what a fucking manager.
309 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:21:07
The saying "If you want to gain respect from your employees, never criticize them in public" do it in private interviews.
310 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:30:28
You made a mistake, hold your hands up. We all make them.
311 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:44:33
The real blame for over 300 posts is Bill "what a manager '. Yes, vent your anger at the Spanish egotistical fool, but seriously Kenwright is the real delusional one.
I have advocated for more than a year now that Roberto is not a nice man. His contempt towards senior pros like Distin, Eto'o, and now Baines shows him up to be a true...... Depending on your state of mind, fill in the rest.
I personally blame the egotistical Kenwright as he saw a kindred mirror version of himself in his "what a manager "
312 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:47:19
Bainsey playing tomorrow. Will be interesting to see the starting line up. Let's win it for the supporters, for Baines and for common sense that the board put this nonsense to an end this weekend.
313 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:06:04
314 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:19:11
But his philosophical zeal borders on pathalogical stubborness that will cost him his job at the end of the season. His recent interviews have blamed refs, claimed were should have won games, excused some players' but hung others out to dry. But I think that is down to the pressure he is under the growing realisation that his coat is on a shaky peg.
Mr Moshiri's silence his deafening. He has not made a single supportive remark about Roberto since he became the biggest shareholder. And the fact that he is not on the board makes no difference. If he gives Martinez a vote of no confidence he is done.
Like Paul Ferry, I think Mr Moshiri is assessing which manager he trusts to spend the major investment he will make in transfers this summer. It wont be Martinez so we just have to put up with him till the summer.
But I've nothing against him personally - he seems like quite a nice bloke and my guess is good company of a decent rioja.
315 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:20:36
I don't see how Kenwright can be blamed. RM's first season was a good one. Finished 5th with a record points total. Then it looked like Kenwright had picked the right man. How was he to know that RM would lose the plot so badly?
Personally I would not like to choose a manager for a middling football club like Everton. The vast majority of managers never win anything their entire careers. They just move from club to club until they retire. Yet these are the guys chairmen have to choose from.
Unless you are the chairman of a rich club which allows you to pick from proven winners, Mourinho, Guardiola, Pellegrini, etc then you will always be taking a chance. Pick a known plodder like Pulis, Allardyce, Pardew etc who'll always disappoint in the end. Or pick an up and coming young manager. Moyes was unknown. He did ok. Mike Walker a flash in the pan at Norwich, totally out of his depth at Everton. RM looked good but has proved to be another flash in the pan.
Hopefully Moshiri will be picking the next guy and with money to spend maybe we can attract a proven winner instead of a careerist plodder or a young unknown quantity.
316 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:29:21
What's the record anyone?
317 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:40:07
318 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:43:12
319 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:44:30
320 Posted 08/04/2016 at 16:03:51
Man City No
Why couldn't we get him? He was 33/1 a couple of days ago. That's now 16/1. Worth a cheeky tenner??
321 Posted 08/04/2016 at 16:30:36
Brent, apologies for my post yesterday.
322 Posted 08/04/2016 at 16:30:50
Personally I doubt Mourinho will ever manage Everton. He needs a bigger stage to massage his ego than we can provide.
323 Posted 08/04/2016 at 16:33:39
You're probably right but he does have a soft spot for the noise the Goodison fans generate.
You never know!!
324 Posted 08/04/2016 at 16:37:00
Madrid Been there and ZZ has only just taken over.
PSG What's the point, and Blanc seems to be doing just fine.
Bayern - No
We should be placing ourselves alongside the clubs I mentioned in my first comment. We're nowhere near as the Premier League table shows. Getting him would be a massive statement of intent. I don't think it's as unlikely as some people think.
325 Posted 08/04/2016 at 16:56:52
There are plenty of coaches qualified to get the job, coaches who could improve this team of undoubted quality rapidly. Coaches who have watched Everton this season.
If the coaches available have the knowledge of what Everton Football Club is all about that would be even better.
Form an orderly queue, please.
326 Posted 08/04/2016 at 17:04:48
And that's just it Steve â€“ a final nail in the coffin â€“ the Catalan does not drink. How can we have an Everton manager who does not drink? A single sip of champagne in his entire life, he says.
TEETOTAL MARTINEZ OUT!
327 Posted 08/04/2016 at 17:27:10
And very good... ha ha James.
328 Posted 08/04/2016 at 18:05:14
329 Posted 08/04/2016 at 18:11:03
330 Posted 08/04/2016 at 18:20:33
In my opinion his appointment was at best a lazy appointment and that's being kind. Others would say that it was a grossly negligent appointment.
You ask how could Kenwright know [Martinez] would lose the plot so badly? The probable answer is that if Kenwright had taken the trouble and effort (due diligence) to analyse RM's PL record of decline at Wigan in the previous 4 years culminating in their relegation then It would have highlighted his failings and exactly all that is wrong with his management.
Kenwright compounded this disastrous appointment a year later with a knee jerk extension to his contract and improved terms. Totally forgetting to think about first season syndrome or whatever it's called, unlike clubs like West Ham who for example have it in their managers contracts that no extensions or renegotiations will take place until they are at least into their eighteenth month, thus protecting themselves against first year syndrome.
I agree with you though I do not envy anyone having to select a new manager. However as alluded to above I have continued to wonder what thought processes led Kenwright to appoint someone who had, only weeks before managed his club into relegation.
332 Posted 08/04/2016 at 20:35:14
Same comments on Talksport this morning Alan Brazil, Ray Parlour and a journalist. All three praised Leighton and ridiculed Martinez.
The pressure is starting to build from angles Martinez could not have expected.
I'm not going to Watford so I will see what the team on Soccer Saturday have to say!!
The sooner the better.
333 Posted 08/04/2016 at 20:35:23
I couldn't get logged on tonight and it appeared that there was a heavy volume on the site. I thought for a few thrilling seconds that he was gone. Not yet.
334 Posted 08/04/2016 at 20:43:27
It was around that time I thought the same, we got beat by a very poor Hull side and none of the players looked arsed, from memory we played a back three of Barry, Alcaraz and Jags. Hull could have had a bag full that day, it was obvious that it wasn't working yet Martinez never bothered to change the system, sound familiar?
Couple of weeks before we got beat by Southampton in another awful performance were he made no subs and didn't change the system that wasn't working from the start.
Again sound familiar?
Finally some good news though, had an email from Everton to say my Semi Final ticket is en route as we speak!
335 Posted 08/04/2016 at 21:23:34
Leighton Baines gives me the impression, for whatever reason, that he is a thinking man, and that he has said what he has said has made me wonder.
He is clearly the senior pro at the club, aside from the Captain, who, by definition must tow the line, and so if he makes comments that are not the sanitised stuff we are fed, then it seems to me that it is not only his view but one that he has the support of others in making. I have heard that there have been delegations of players who have made their views known.
I said on here around Xmas 2014 that the Manager should go, and my view remains the same, he lost me then and it looks to me like he has lost the players now.
Sad really, him going before the semi would appear a little churlish, so, to be fair, he has the right to see how far we can go in that trophy, but if that is the end of the cup run, and in fairness, when was the last time we had two semis, in football terms anyway!!, then it should be the end of a Manager who, for me has bought quite well, but is not good enough and I do not want anymore of the Wiganerton stuff
336 Posted 08/04/2016 at 21:46:19
337 Posted 08/04/2016 at 22:18:14
My point exactly, nothing has changed since the year we got 5th, if anything we are going backwards. But I don't know whether sacking him is the answer.
Was it luck that got us 5th? Maybe. But he changed the way we played, brought Lukaku in, and although at the moment can't be arsed, on his day he is our biggest threat.
I am on the fence with Martinez, but all these new bits of information about Baines etc, isn't helping. Let's see what a possible FA Cup win, at least does to the mentality of the players, and if we still are playing more backward passes than in a Rugby game, then he has to go.
338 Posted 08/04/2016 at 22:25:30
I'm with you. I may even have a cheeky bet. His first choice would be Man Utd; however, it looks increasingly likely that LVG will remain for another 12 months and that Sir Bobby is not keen anyway.
He's had his sabatical and is now itching to get back in the mix. Could we get him? Yes absolutely... Would he come? ... Yes... with certain caveats. He is the one who more than anywhere he's been could leave a long-term lasting legacy.
Time will tell but things will move fast within the next 6 months.
339 Posted 08/04/2016 at 22:26:03
340 Posted 08/04/2016 at 22:32:53
I am nothing to do with ToffeeWeb, but feel, confident enough to say I bet they encourage discussion, debate, even fervent expressions of views, but I hope most of all that despite all our differences, we are most interested in the well being of the club we love.
341 Posted 08/04/2016 at 22:43:48
If by some fluke they win the Cup and maybe beat the RS it won't be by anything Martinez has changed.
Hopefully the board already have the same thoughts and have a contingency plan for the Summer. If they don't, then expect to lose some of the better players as they know they will have a better chance of success elsewhere.
342 Posted 08/04/2016 at 22:58:37
343 Posted 08/04/2016 at 23:02:26
344 Posted 08/04/2016 at 23:58:03
345 Posted 09/04/2016 at 00:06:00
346 Posted 09/04/2016 at 04:22:57
Here's a thought. What if Moshiri is the silent type that doesn't spend weeks boasting about buying a football club but actually... does so?
What if he sends a clear message to the manager that results have to change... and they haven't?
What if he identifies a manager but doesn't want to undermine the current one going into an FA cup semi final?
What if that manager wants to be "somewhere he is truly wanted."
What if said manager has "good offers on the table."
What if this manager "was almost certain that he will be back working this summer?"
What if said manager has started to look for a house in Cheshire?
What if the bookies know something and the odds of this so called manager joining Everton have reduced dramatically?
What if Mr Moshiri wants to hit the ground running with a statement of intent of Champions League football for his new darling?
What if 'Lukaku can leave' because we have a 'special one?'
Might be the mumblings of a manager looking to force Manchester United's hand, or maybe something else?
Just a thought.
347 Posted 09/04/2016 at 09:11:27
I am a STH and I now do not enjoy going to the match (haven't for the past two seasons), which saddens me and this is due to the style of play RM brings. LB obvioulsy makes comment with regards to how players and fans feel. I think RM is a cognitively rigid and fearful man who has many psychological defences, one shown here. He won't change as Moyes didn't, but this feels more extreme than Moyes' era. I enjoyed the foitball more under Moyes.
I have to say (I rarely say this) - I think I hate Martinez, I can't stand him. His baffling line ups, consistently playing two-three DMs, never playing a left midfielder (strange, yeah?!) and awful use of substitutions.
I am desperate for him to be sacked and every time I get a Bleacher Report icon on my phone with Everton news, so hope it'll be 'Breaking News: Martinez sacked'
348 Posted 08/04/2016 at 11:37:13
I think you may have a really good point with ref. to Jekyll and Hyde .
I would add though, looking at his game management and tactical skills two other people spring to mind.
Laurel and Hardy!
349 Posted 09/04/2016 at 13:19:30
Good point Brent.
Apologies by the way.
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