Martinez: Baines was misinterpreted

07/04/2016  329 Comments  [Jump to last]
Roberto Martinez says he has spoken with Leighton Baines over his recent comments about the team and that the defender "has apologised".

Speaking to the local press this past week in an attempt to explain Everton's wretched form, the left back admitted that "the chemistry is not quite there [between the players] and hasn't been for a while."

His plain-talking but measured assessment was welcomed by supporters but his manager claims Baines's words were misconstrued. Even so, he says the England international has apologised.

“It is very disappointing when you see a misinterpretation of a player's words, and clearly this has been taken out of context,” Martinez said in his pre-match press conference ahead of the trip to Watford.

“What he intended to say is that when you're not getting the results you lose confidence so a ball that could go in hits the crossbar and it goes out. At the other end, a half chance ends up in the back of the net.

“That's what he meant and it was more of a feeling of disappointment and frustration and obviously he used the wrong words.

“But someone with the experience of Leighton Baines — and he knows, I've had a chat with him — he has to take responsibility for those words. They've been given the opportunity to attract a meaning that is not right and for that he apologised.

“We expect a senior figure at Everton to take responsibility, to make sure that we speak on the pitch, and the way to do that is against Watford.

"We have a strong mentality and that is not going to be tested by comments from outside.

“It is important our fans understand that words can be taken out of context. We are not performing well at the moment, but that is something we want to change quickly.”  


Reader Comments (329)

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Patrick Murphy
1 Posted 07/04/2016 at 09:29:56
Roberto says 'It is very disappointing when you see a misinterpretation of a player's words, and clearly this has taken out of context.' I've had a chat with him and he knows he has to take responsibility for those words. He's apologised and taken responsibility for leaving those words open.

So Leighton had to apologise, if not for his actual observations, but for the way he left his words open to interpretation. Funny how Rom didn't have to make any apologies or at least the manager didn't feel the need to make it public if he did.

The rest of his press conference so far, is the usual bluster and avoidance of the issues. I honestly have to keep looking at the league table before he took over to see if we were consistently in the bottom five – because that's how he seems to be addressing the situation at least in his own mind.


Christine Foster
2 Posted 07/04/2016 at 09:47:00
So, Baines has been bollocked for telling it the way he feels, no surprises there!
But misinterpretation? Out of context? Of what?? Leaving the words open?

He has just hung Baines out to dry... Public ally admonishing him for speaking out against him and his managerial style.

What's the next step? Baines having to sit in a press conference and tell people he is sorry and what a great guy Roberto is and how wonderful the team spirit is?

I am sure Roberto had words with him.. I wonder if he got fined and dropped too...

Jermaine Jennings
3 Posted 07/04/2016 at 10:10:12
I can't believe this manager, Baines tells it how it is and Baines needs to apologise!!! What a disgrace. Martinez has no guts what so ever he is a terrible manager and the sooner he's out the better.

Well done, Baines...

We love you, Bainesy, we do,
We love you, Bainesy, we do,
OH BAINESY – we love you!!!

Mohammed Horoub
4 Posted 07/04/2016 at 10:29:10
Until today, I agreed with most people that said that Martinez was a good guy but out of his league and not good enough for this level. But – after hearing his comments – I am now leaning towards the opinion that he's a douchebag of the highest order!!

How he has the nerve to blame FA Cup 'hype' for poor league form and then for him to try and hang Baines out to dry for speaking the truth... Baines is an intelligent person and his phrasing and the use of the word 'chemistry' was brilliant. Everyone interpreted it as meaning the tactics are crap and the manager doesn't know how to use his players. Even Martinez understood this and that's why he has asked Baines to apologize!

I really hope the Goodison faithful at the next home game sing Baines's name for the full 90 minutes so this fraud knows his place...

I've resigned myself to another 8 months at least of this train wreck of a manager before Moshiri can overrule Kenwright and sack him. I'm hoping between now and that moment that the players give us some relief with an FA Cup win...

Denis Richardson
5 Posted 07/04/2016 at 10:40:05
Poor form is because the players are distracted by the semi final........right. The current run of 4 league defeats, seperated by the solitary win against Aston Villa, started before we even had the quarterfinal game. Never mind the fact we've been poor in the league since April 2014!

We have 4 league games before the semi-final... sounds like the excuses are already being made for these.

Wish the club would put us (and him) out of our misery... whether we win, lose or draw away to Watford will make fuck all difference!

James Marshall
6 Posted 07/04/2016 at 10:58:38
So that'll be the last time Bainesy plays this season, and well into next – if ever again under Martinez.

We all agree though, I would imagine (I haven't read the thread).

Linda Morrison
7 Posted 07/04/2016 at 11:33:15
I couldn't believe it when I heard that Baines had to apologise for telling the truth.

We can all see that the team is not playing as a team, he just voiced the truth. Being a manager can be a lonely place, that's why you have deputies to tell you when you are going off course and they work together to get things back on track.

Surely Ferguson or Unsworth know what's going on with the players, maybe they have said something and Martinez chooses to ignore them. We will never know until the books come out.

Martinez is now where Jose was at Chelsea and, like Jose, he has to go. I honestly think he should go before the semi-final as the players will not be happy with the way Baines has been hung out to dry.

Amit Vithlani
8 Posted 07/04/2016 at 11:37:19
This, surely, is it for the bloke. Its one thing taking on Etoó and Distin, but another thing admonishing Baines so publicly - a straight talking, loyal, talented pro who by Martinez' own admission has played through pain in his ankle.

Baines is a very popular figure amongst many fans. He may be showing signs of wear and tear, but I think many still have a great deal of respect and affection for him, and when he speaks, we know it is for the good of the club.

On the other hand, I struggle to understand Martinez. Perhaps the lack of clarity in his language reflects a muddled mind.

Amit Vithlani
9 Posted 07/04/2016 at 11:49:19
Agreed Linda. If Martinez is asserting his authority he is making a big mistake by publicising the rift. Baines is a far more popular figure than Martinez. He may be showing signs of wear and tear, but has been a loyal decent pro who has done a lot for the club. He turned down Man Utd at his peak. When Mirallas behaved despicably on the penalty, he took it on the chin.

I fully understand Baines's comments and Martinez would have had my respect if he said he would try and address them, since we know this is how Baines feels.

Brent Stephens
10 Posted 07/04/2016 at 11:58:38
Martinez says that Baines's comments were misinterpreted but that Baines should take responsibility for having made comments that were open to misinterpretation???

Now who else at Everton would make comments that aren't clear?

Brent Stephens
11 Posted 07/04/2016 at 12:01:17
And Amit is absolutely right about Martinez's admonishing Baines in public. Martinez started by saying the comments were misinterpreted and taken out of context – he should have stuck to that. So much for judgement.
Sam Hoare
12 Posted 07/04/2016 at 12:49:28
New definition of irony, Martinez accusing someone else of using the wrong words in an interview!

Jim Hardin
13 Posted 07/04/2016 at 12:54:44
I hope Baines gets a standing ovation on introduction and every time he touches the damn ball (wait, probably will be banished to the U-21s). I wonder if the apology Baines supposedly made was not for leaving words open to "misinterpretation" but rather for not saying that "Martinez is a tactically inept, poor manager and that playing for him is like watching a train wreck in slow motion."
Jack Cross
14 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:10:38
Baines has not aplologised.
Tony Hill
15 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:11:02
Well, this is a new low for the manager. Does he seriously think that the fans are going to credit him rather than Baines? Get him out of our club now – he is a worsening embarrassment. The rest of what he said in the conference is, of course, his standard drivel.
Patrick Murphy
16 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:15:28
Phil McNulty of the BBC tweeted 'Better brutal honesty than delusion – and Martinez would do well to heed Baines' message rather than question it.' whilst David Prentice has written a response to Roberto headlined 'Everton's Leighton Baines wasn't misinterpreted and shouldn't apologise as Martinez plays the blame game.'

Seems to me at any rate that the press are beginning to put Roberto under more scrutiny than they have done recently or indeed ever, of course that may partly be to the supporters voicing concerns and they don't want to be seen behind the curve of popular opinion.

Tony Hill
17 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:23:53
How can we expect the players to want to play for a man like this? That is the real worry for the forthcoming games including, of course, the semi-final.
Christopher Dover
18 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:46:10
Perhaps Baines did speak in a mixed way, not making his point, so causing Martinez to misunderstand.

Looking to translate it for Martinez, I think he meant something like:-

"Roberto, you are useless; you do not know how we are to play so how are we supposed to? If you leave the subs for a bit later, we will be down the tunnel when the player goes on, and just to make it clear – you are a the worst manager I have had the misfortune to play under."

Perhaps the phenomenal one would not misinterpret that, and by the way please go now.

Ernie Baywood
19 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:50:33
To be honest I think he's just signed his own warrant, though it was probably ready for the summer anyway.

I'm not sure Baines's words were even that controversial. The team isn't working out – we lack something. Was there any need to even disagree?

The Echo don't seem to do witch hunts but that might well change now. Attacking Prentice and Baines isn't a smart move.

I haven't been a fan of Roberto's but I still desperately wanted it to work out. Now it just feels like a shame; a wasted opportunity. Can't bring myself to dislike him, but I would pity him if it wasn't for his bank account.

Frank Crewe
20 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:58:33
Baines should be sent to our Finch Farm re-education camp for wrong thinking. He has dared to question the great leader's phenomenal methods and must be shown the error of his ways.

A few days in Room 101 will soon put him right. Defense is attack. Bad is good. Viva Roberto!!

George Freeman
21 Posted 07/04/2016 at 14:10:01
But Martinez disagreed, saying: "I wouldn't say we are a team that relies on one or two individuals. I think we rely on the technical ability of the whole team, the way that we can get high up the pitch, create chances.

"Of course we rely on individuals because the team is made up of individuals and we've got 15, 16 individuals that have had impressive campaigns, probably the best in their young careers in some cases."

Make up your mind Roberto you can't have it both ways. When you are in a hole stop digging.

Peter Roberts
22 Posted 07/04/2016 at 14:14:28
Desperation – pure deluded desperation. Talk about alienating yourself from the fans and the team Roberto.

Blimey – I was one of the ones who stubbornly supported you despite feeling increasing unease at how arrogant, stubborn and stupid you were getting by the week.

You can show ambition to leave the club whilst in the middle of a season but you can reveal any reasons as to why performances haven't been up to scratch...

You ain't gonna walk away as I think you even as deluded as you are know that you ain't gonna get a good job after this – let's just hope Bill and Moshiri are unanimous in you needing to be sacked.

Bill Gall
23 Posted 07/04/2016 at 14:31:19
I believe this incident with Baines's comments and Martinez's feeble attempts to try to switch blame is going to backfire on Martinez.

No longer are the fans complaining of Martinez's methods but now the press are starting to agree with what fans are saying .

Martinez beware: "The pen is mightier than the sword".

Paul Conway
24 Posted 07/04/2016 at 14:47:25
But Martinez disagreed, saying: "I wouldn't say we are a team that relies on one or two individuals. I think we rely on the technical ability of the whole team, the way that we can get high up the pitch, create chances."

Okay, all this has nothing to do with relying on Gareth Barry then?

Having watched the video, you can see Martinez is the king of bullshit. He has a good command of the English language, which he uses well... even to the extent that, when he really needs time to answer an awkward question, he plays the foreigner well, making you think that his hesitation is due to the fact that English is not his first language.

All very subtle... but in his interview, he dropped his guard at 15:49 – you can see his actual body swerve, when asked about the booing in the dressing room; he allayed to a total different tangent, that had got fuck all to do with the direct question.

I played it back several times from that point and said to myself, "Gotcha!!!"

And the line about the semi-final having an effect on league performances... utter scutter!!

Martinez is probably the only foreigner who, if he visited an English hypnotist, it would be him hypnotising the hypnotist!!

Trust in me,
Trust in me,
Close your eyes,
And go to sleeeeeep....

Ken Buckley
25 Posted 07/04/2016 at 14:51:53
Our present manager didn't exactly cover himself in glory in his presser re the Baines interview.

The scary thing for me was that he didn't seem to have a clue what Baines was actually on about. A couple of follow-up questions gave him the chance to agree our teamwork maybe needed working on but that seemed to go over his head.

This has now gathered pace in the press and on social media so it will be very interesting to see how our new board deal with the situation – or maybe not. Who knows but well worth keeping an eye on. It might form some opinions on how well Bill has chosen his successor.

Dave Abrahams
26 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:18:23
You haven't apologised, Leighton; the manager has said you have. There was no apology necessary, you spoke the truth which was completely understandable to most of us; we have seen what you described for the last 18 months or more.

Hold your head up, Leighton. I promise you, you will still be here when Martinez has long gone.

Michael Kenrick
27 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:21:41
Hugely significant for me to see Prentice come out and slam Martinez so directly, hitting every idiotic statement for six in this ridiculous put-down by the manager.

"Out of context.... misinterpreted... " – what complete and utter bollocks.

Someone may correct me but l can't recall the Echo ever being this forthright. I'm taking it as a sign that the end is drawing near...

Ian Burns
28 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:30:28
There was no misunderstanding, Roberto, the English was perfectly clear – no chemistry between the players.

To translate for you, Roberto – what he was saying is that the individual players have no idea what they are supposed to be doing as a team because their coach has no idea what he is doing as a coach.

The game vs Watford has now taken on a more significant meaning. If Watford turn us over and there is no chemistry among the players, Roberto, then what bullshit are you going to come out with? Because you can be sure some journalist/pundit will ask you the question.

Michael Evans
29 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:32:17
Surely if your perceptions are not based on evidence and rationality, then there is a problem?

The issue is then that either I and the majority of people who post on TW have got it wrong and this has been a PHENOMENAL season.

OR, we have got it right based on the performances we have seen and our collective knowledge of football over many years.

If we are right then Martinez is peddling bullshit on a Galactic level in a desperate attempt to save his job.

Alternatively, he actually truly believes all is good and, if that's the case, then we really are in trouble!!!

Al Reddish
30 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:36:19
“What he intended to say is that when you're not getting the results you lose confidence so a ball that could go in hits the crossbar and it goes out. At the other end, a half chance ends up in the back of the net."

How the hell does that mean what Baines said about lack of chemistry??? Moshiri must be baffled at what's going on at the club.

Oliver Molloy
31 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:38:22
And on and on it goes....

I said on another thread that things are very wrong at the club and the time was fast approaching were it would be every man for themselves, this latest silly statement from Martinez confirms it.
I would predict more to follow...

Maybe Martinez is related to the guy who said this:

"I am right. I'm always right. One time I thought I was wrong, I found out I was right." – Jerry Lee Lewis....

Christine – I hope you are wrong regards your choice of next manager !

Phil Grayston
32 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:41:42
I think Michael is right to highlight the significance of an Echo journalist calling Martinez out like this. I wonder if local journalists are starting to take on board some of the recent comments (ToffeeTV, for example) about them failing in their duty to report objectively and critically on the current malaise at the club.

I also agree with Prentice when he says that publicly reprimanding Baines for his sincerity is particularly hard to take when no apology was required for Lukaku mouthing off about Champions League football next year.

Ray Robinson
33 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:42:18
I was of the opinion a while ago that sacking the manager before the Cup Semi Final would be counter-productive. Now, I'm re-evaluating my opinion and think it might actually be a good idea. We're already rudderless so what harm would it do to have one of the backroom staff step in? I'm sure Unsworth could motivate the team and, we the fans, could cheer the players onto victory.

Even as I type this I'm re re-considering but it just shows how much I can't bear the utter bullshit that the man comes out with these days.

Tony Cheek
34 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:42:59
Martinez is a twat. Oops... sorry – what I meant to say is Martinez is a big twat!

Bainesy said what he meant, and about time one of them did! It isn't as if it was a bleeding secret. We can all see what is going on!

This is just Martinez diverting the negativity on to someone else! Wanker!

Mark Pierpoint
35 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:47:53
The whole press conference was nothing short of embarrassing. Trying to justify the FA cup for the failures in the league. Saying we are not reliant on individuals but then admitting that we have missed the influence of Gareth Barry. Saying that we have 15-16 match winners in our team. Absolutely pathetic. As was his decision to state that Baines had apologised. I would have had more respect had he swerved the question. He couldn't wait to put that in – posturing like he is actually in charge.

I used to like him and say he was a good bloke. Beginning to doubt it now. Has an air of arrogance and nastiness about him, and his unswerving belief that we are actually doing okay is insulting. All that rubbish about the best away form since 1906 or whenever! Come on. Great to see Prentice in the Echo today cut him to shreds. Absolute Moron of the highest order.

Ken Kneale
36 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:48:08
This is a change of tone from Martinez and surely is the phraseology of a man who has lost all respect of players and fans.

It is vital as fans we show support for a dedicated professional such as Baines who stood by Everton when he could easily have left and now faces public comments like this from his manager.

More than ever, a clear statement he must leave – and WE must convey those thoughts to the Club hierarchy.

Paul Kossoff
37 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:51:50
Martinez, "What he intended to say is that when you're not getting the results you lose confidence so a ball that could go in hits the crossbar and it goes out. At the other end, a half chance ends up in the back of the net." – No Roberto, that's utter bull.

What Baines meant is exactly as he said it: "This team is disjointed." – meaning there are players who care and players who don't.

Martinez has surely embarrassed himself and the club; his explanations get more bizzare. Not acceptable – he should go.

Kunal Desai
38 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:52:37
Apologise for exactly what?? Telling the truth, apologising for the bullshit that goes on the pitch which your management team has trained these players to serve up over the last 18 months? You will be making the last apology when you are kicked out in the summer. Everyone will be laughing at you then.
Paul Andrews
40 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:53:18
Michael Kenrick,

100% correct.

Prentice always stays on the side of the club.
He would not risk being ostracized.
Martinez is gone.

John Keating
41 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:53:45
Mark

I tell you who is a bigger moron than Martinez – Prentice

This charlatan Martinez has been embarrassing our Club for 2 years and how many pertinent questions has Prentice and his apprentices asked Martinez?

The supporters have been asking the arseholes at the Echo to ask this clown questions we have wanted asking for ages but they've been far more interested in getting their grub at Finch Farm and treble gins at Goodison on match days.

Prentice and his cohorts are now being questioned... so now and only now is it an issue.

Hypocritical bastards the lot of them.

Ray Robinson
42 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:56:37
What Baines meant to say is that the players needed a chemist to prescribe something for diarrhoea but they hadn't been able to find one.
Paul Kossoff
43 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:07:48
John 37, well said.
Alan J Thompson
44 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:10:52
Now, one of these blokes doesn't speak English as his native language. That doesn't rule out anyone from Kirkby but we will find out when one of them has the weekend off.
Jamie Barlow
45 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:11:24
Spot on John@37.

The Echo only question him now he's upset one of their own.

Christy Ring
46 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:17:51
Baines tells the truth, gets a slap on the hand, and Martinez said, he apologised, after being misquoted. You'd laugh, only for it's so serious. It's like a chapter from George Orwell's book, 'Animal Farm' (about dictatorship in Russia).

Our new owner, and Martinez buddy Bill, have to see now, what Chris Sutton sees, he's lost the plot, 'Martinez is in fucking cuckoo land'.

Joe Foster
47 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:20:20
Just hire Gus Hiddink please.
Ray Jacques
48 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:22:03
When he was manager of Wigan they were hammered by by 7, 8 and even 9 on one occasion I seem to recall at Spurs.

I have this feeling in the pit of my stomach that we are going to get an almighty hiding from the RS who will attack us from the first minute, and the pathetic excuse will be that our minds were on the semi-final.

I'm now with Ray (#30) and want a change right now. Don't even care who it is until the season end.

Brent Stephens
49 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:22:46
I once thought Martinez was a decent guy and might end up being a good manager. I came to realise he's a poor manager. Sadly, I now can't even see him as a decent man.

Exposing Baines like that, to show himself (Martinez), his tactics and his record in the best light, was despicable and cowardly – the best managers defend their players, not use them to deflect attention away from their own shortcomings.

That's the last straw... heaped on top of so many other last straws.

Christopher Dover
50 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:23:59
Comes to something when an English born and English speaking player gives out misunderstanding in an interview, yet the foreign manager with his limited vocabulary (particularly when he wants to) says things that are so clear no one can misunderstand him.

You could not make it up.

Dean Peamum
51 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:29:05
Hope no-one misinterprets this:

One of these two is the Baines of my team, the other is the bane of my life.

¿Cómo està todavía aquí?

David Connor
52 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:30:05
Next time Bainesy takes a corner (that's if Martinez picks him again), it would be great to see every man, woman and child stand up and give the lad a huge round of applause for daring to speak his mind.

This manager lost the home crowd a long time ago. Let's make sure that he knows the crowd are behind Baines who is Everton through and through. I'm sick an tired of his complete bullshit interviews. The man has to go, regardless of whether we win the cup or not. He couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery. Sooner he is gone the better.

Let's hope the new money man is one ruthless bastard because everyone has become too comfy. They need a huge kick up the backside, from top to bottom.

Stephen Brown
53 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:30:16
This is horrendous! Is Baines an easy target to critisize? As many have said, Lukaku should be castigated – not Baines! This is the action of a man who realises his time could be up!

I was willing RM to be a success but I think this takes us past the point of no return, even with an FA cup win!

This season has been a disaster! After such high expectations!

Stephen Brown
54 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:33:00
It didn't sit easily with me this petition to get RM sacked and I was not going to sign it!

But, after this, I've changed my mind! Enough now!!

Derek Turner
55 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:35:40
"We have 15 or 16 individuals who have had impressive campaigns", vintage Martinez bullshit. I am on the point of really, really disliking this guy. I disliked Moyes (contract Mk II), pitied the previous incompetent (sorry, incumbent) Smith and am bemused by Kenwright's naive loyalty, but this guy takes the biscuit.

Baines is a proper Everton player and deserves to be heard.

We love complaining about how much players earn, but Martinez earns a bucket, is responsible as the manager for the team and like all poor managers blames everything but himself. He would struggle to hold down a £30k job at Tesco.

Muppet.

Ray Smith
56 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:39:27
If Leighton has been misinterpreted, why should he apologise?

When is telling the truth a mistake?

The truth often hurts. All Leighton has done is give us an insight from the dressing room which we all suspected anyway.

I'm not normally one to start shouting in public, but I'm going to give it some at the Southampton game.

I think Martinez knows exactly how we feel, but his arrogance is such that he doesn't actually care.

I'm going to support Leighton loudly, even if he's on the bench or not even in the squad!

I can see a mysterious injury looming instead when Martinez drops him.

Mark Tanton
57 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:43:24
Roberto has surely just put his head fully in the noose now. He has publically admonished a long-standing popular and respected first team player. He's an idiot. Proof that even a dead wasp can sting. He is, undoubtedly though, a dead wasp at Everton now.
Robert Duncombe
58 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:43:46
David (#50)

I agree with that thought regarding giving Baines a standing ovation. Let us make it happen!!

John Louis Jones
59 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:45:42
You have to think his time is nearly up, When the Echo turns on you as a Everton Manager it is clearly a sign.

I have just checked the odds and he is the bookies favorite to go next, I also read a interesting article today that a huge amount of money has been placed of Mourinho to be the next Everton Manager.

However, back on point: I have been wishing that the Echo would do this; thankfully at last they have.

I always watched the Pressers and Martinez has a tell when he lies: He combs his right eyebrow.

I just want him gone now and I think some of our senior players do too.

Jay Harris
60 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:46:05
"We have a strong mentality and that is not going to be tested by comments from outside".

It gets tested by every team we play and comes up lacking.

Baines is spot on.

The team spirit and comradery that Moyes built up has been totally destroyed by this egotistical fantasist.

Martinez out now!!

Brian Williams
61 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:46:10
Everything I wanted, or was going to say, has been said.

You've been rumbled, Mr Martinez. The press are now onto you (took them long enough) and the pressure is not only slowly building but is also starting to show... and about time too.

I hope Martinez is living on borrowed time and is almost at the end of his phenomenal fucking journey.

James Hughes
62 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:48:59
Just watched the clip on SSN and to me Roberto looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights so maybe the game is up. Even the Beeb's sportsday news had a little dig at this quote:–

"We know the quality we have. Clearly the disappointment is there because the standards are so high. We feel we can perform against anyone.”

An odd thing to say after three consecutive defeats, no?

Ray Smith
63 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:52:19
If the bookies have him as the next manager to go, that will get more air time on Sky and media coverage generally.

Hope this happens as a couple of mins on Sky, plus 5-10 mins on Soccer Saturday should bring the pains on for Martinez: bye bye...

Brian Porter
64 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:52:32
Roberto Martinez is the lowest of the low. Leighton Baines tells the truth and is forced to apologise, Lukaku publicly talks disloyally about wanting away and nothing is said.
When even the Echo publicly back up Baines's words and state their was no misinterpretation then it's clear that Martinez is a liar and a bully and has no place as the manager of our (not his) football club.

Could this be the straw that breaks the camel's back? It's time the rest of the team got behind Baines, a true blue and one of our most respected senior players.

Martinez is not fit to breathe the same air. He's a charlatan, a dictator who can't take criticism or accept any opinion but his own. If Phil Jagielka was a tea team captain rather than Martinez's mouthpiece, he'd now stand up, back Leighton Baines and let's see how Martinez copes when the whole team turns against him, which I feel isn't far away.

The man is a loathsome little prat, with delusions of grandeur and the sooner he's out of our club, the better for everyone.

Jim Lloyd
65 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:53:42
I've had plenty of goes at the Echo but on this occasion, I think they have opened the floodgates. It seems to me that an irreversible stance has been taken by Martinez, maybe without him realising the seriousness of what he's said.

He's not only tried to pass the buck to Leighton Baines and say that he's apologised. He's publicly accused the Echo reporters of "taking out of context" and "misinterpreting" what Bainsey has said.

On a number of occasions I've thought that Roberto's summary after some galling defeats were not accurate. In fact they appeared to me to be excuses, Man City, Chelsea for example, when it seemed to me that poor tactics and poor substitutions were at fault.

I didn't like the attempted deflection of what went wrong and I certainly don't like what he's said about Leighton and also The Echo. I think he's spoken before he's thought through what the consequences are going to be.

Rather than saying nothing, he's attacked a senior player for saying what is blatantly obvious.

There is something wrong within the squad.

I've supported Martinez throughout last season and this, until he started using excuses and blaming anyone or anything for results, rather than saying "We'll have to sort this out... and quick"

Now, all the fans will be reading or being told about, what has appeared in The Echo. I think now that there will be a massive reaction to his attempted public humbling of Leighton (which hasn't worked) and his miscalculation over what he's said about the Echo reporters.

In effect, he has accused them of lying and my guess is that he's thought he could get away with it. Bad, bad miscalculation. I don't think he can recover from this now. I don't think he saw coming the response from Dave Prentice and it's blewn up in his face. From now on, I think the Everton reporters team will be gloves off, when reporting on EFC.

Certainly as far as many of the fans go, he has attacked a lad who's pulled his tripes out for Everton (yeah, well paid I know but he's worked his bollocks off ) and has said what we mostly suspected. The team spirit has gone.

Mike Hughes
66 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:56:26
I don't know if anyone heard Chris Sutton's comments regarding Martinez on Radio 5Live the other night. He basically said that Martinez blames everyone else except himself. Slippery again now isn't he?

My mind was made up well over a year ago regarding Mr Snake Oil Salesman. He is unworthy of managing Everton FC. Bye, bye.

Jim Lloyd
67 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:56:40
I'd like to add that when we next turn up at Goodison, the crowd let Bainsey know that we appreciate what he said and that we support him as one of our own.
Brin Williams
68 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:58:28
This is phenomenal, here we have a second language user telling a first language born and bred user of the Queen's scouse that he should apologise for using the very same Queen's English.

Like so many on here I have been against calling publicly or voting for the removal of Martinez, but for him to go public and criticise a senior player for telling it as it is when we have been subjected to his constant diatribe of shit for the past three years really does take the biscuit.

The man is obviously on very shaky ground and the pressure of the job has really got to him. It is time to put him firmly in the frame as OFM.

Adios amigo you are now persona non grata. You have been a big disappointment.

Tom Bowers
69 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:58:35
No matter what he says and no matter the remaining game results Martinez is way past his sell by date and should be removed immediately after the last game.

He has had every opportunity over the last 3 seasons and winning the cup will in no way camouflage his ineptitude and the pathetic results of many games this season.

The players are beginning to voice their concerns and of course Martinez will try to sugar coat them.

I think we are all expecting some big movement in the Summer and not before time.

Ray Smith
70 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:58:56
Jim 63#

Jim in your first paragraph, perhaps his comments were 'misinterpreted', ha ha!!

The noose appears to be tightening, not before time.

Mark Tanton
71 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:59:18
So you think Leighton has tried to sink him?
Jim Lloyd
72 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:01:29
Yes Ray, I couldn't possibly comment!

Mark, I think Roberto has done that himself with the extremely distasteful response to Leighton's comments.

Ray Smith
73 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:02:09
Jim 65#

Jim I'm with you on that one.

I think the crowd will chant Leighton's name throughout.

I will anyway.

Jim Lloyd
74 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:04:42
Ray, me too! Whether Leighton is playing or not!
Ged Simpson
75 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:05:03
Never ever trust the Echo. This is about their reporting and not Baines or Martinez.
Brent Stephens
76 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:05:07
Leighton maybe doesn't know much about history, biology, a science book, the French he took (sorry, Sam) but he sure knows his chemistry. Our Prof.
Ian Hollingworth
77 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:06:56
Christ, not only is he seriously deluded but he obviously thinks Everton fans are that thick that all he needs to do is tell us how it is in Roberto World and we all go off happy that we know how it is.

Sack the incompetent deluded fool now. He should never have had the job and he is embarrassing us and the team performances are shit. How many more reasons are needed to fire him? Do it now, please, as this is way beyond a joke.

Ged Simpson
78 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:06:58
Terrible, terrible, Brent!
Brent Stephens
79 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:08:18
Sorry, Ged!
Ged Simpson
80 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:08:31
True, Ian... but Prentice World is as murky!
Mark Tanton
81 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:18:13
Watford will now be very very interesting. What will the response be?

A) Come out fighting

B) Lay down weapons and die, à la Man Utd at Goodison under Moyes when the game was up.

Shane Corcoran
82 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:19:29
Breaking news. I just received an email telling me that Cleverley sees the Watford game as "a chance to bounce back."

Not so bad.

Paul Conway
83 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:21:22
If Martinez did not reprimand Lukaku for his comments re: Champions League footy for himself, or even ask him to apologise, then, vis-à-vis the Baines affair, this can only mean one thing and one thing only, as far as I can see: The sale of Lukaku in the summer is already a done deal and Martinez has sanctioned it or is resigned to his departure.

To whom we don't know, but given Martinez's bluffing techniques, maybe only he knows.

Martinez scared me in the interview by referring to a new era. I hope he is not including himself in this 'new era' and being able to squander the cash from the sale of Lukaku on pure shite!!
Peter Mills
84 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:27:43
This is excellent. I have been hoping beyond hope that Martinez might get sacked before the semi-final. Now he just might.

I have also been hoping that those charitable few who see him as a decent guy will see through him. Now they just might.

Dan Nulty
85 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:28:22
That is it for me now, I'm extremely patient but I genuinely think he has made a huge mistake. It is good management to reign Bainesy in privately for making a mistake and breaking ranks; however, to do so publicly is incredibly wrong. Especially when everyone agrees with him.

Death nail will be hammered in if we don't win the semi-final and lose the derby and he'll be gone after season end. Huge question as to where we go next. Has to be an exceptional manager for me. One that would excite everybody. Especially for Stones and Ross. Not sure who we could get though.

Michael Penley
86 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:32:03
There's a reason big money has been placed on Mourinho taking the reins at the bookies. It's already been said on good insider authority that he will be next manager, but only after the season ends.
Mark Tanton
87 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:32:42
If he goes, his replacement will have more money to spend than any of his predecessors.
Ged Simpson
88 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:34:14
On what authority Michael?
Phil Walling
89 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:35:19
Bored with hating Kenwright and Martinez?

So let's all start on Prentice and the Echo. Just as they begin to see the light.

Some people!

Mark Tanton
90 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:37:11
Jose is taking over the bookies? Has he any got any experience?! Risky appointment!
John Louis Jones
91 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:38:48
This is a link that I read today : http://www.everydaytips.co.uk/football/mourinho-next-Everton-manager/2484

Michael -86

What are the rumors you have heard?

I think Mancini or Mourinho would be very good.

Steve Guy
92 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:38:49
I can just imagine what Baines actually said and I bet it wasn't an apology. The way Martinez spins things Baines probably said "you're an apology for a manager" .

Some on here have said that Moshiri needs to wait to sack RM because he needs to get BS "What a manager" Billy on side. I disagree, he's the majority shareholder and he can do what he wants imo. Billy is now just a figurehead so Moshiri doesn't have to bother as much with the press.

Moshiri is watching the games, he's hearing the fans (or not, given the silence at matches these days), he must have looked at the stats and he must be cringing like the rest of us with the bullshit coming from Roberto.

He needs sacking now. We might get a dead cat bounce in the league and it might be enough to get us past the semi finals.

Gerry Quinn
93 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:39:34
Words to One Direction – “That's what makes you beautiful”


Okay, Roberto, let's teach you 'bout "chemistry”
Just make sure you are aware of its properties
Because our Bainsey, he knows all our history
Then you'll learn,
Oh, oh - basic stuff for chemistry

:)

Sue Brown
94 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:40:12
At one time, I thought Martinez really 'got' the club and just needed time to get his team playing great football; it would all fall in to place and the silverware would come, but this latest "outburst" shows his true character. To publicly slam Bainsey for speaking the truth is embarrassing to the club and to himself, his arrogance nauseating, and deep down he knows it, I'm sure.

Has anyone heard this apology, btw, or is Martinez just coming out with more shite to justify himself.

John Louis Jones
95 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:42:43
The Echo have just had another dig at Martinez. I am really starting think it might be win or bust at Watford on Saturday.

I think that the Echo know something we don't and it's time to go for the jugglar with Martinez.

Brian Harrison
96 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:43:10
Dead man walking comes to mind. Lose the next 2 games and he is surely gone. This isn't the first time a player has come out and criticized Martinez's methods, there was Eto'o, then Distin... now Baines – all senior players who understood the game.

The poll on ToffeeWeb shows 82% want him gone, I find it surprising that he still has any support left in the fanbase. I know Prentice has come out and said Baines shouldn't apologize, but I wish the press would give him half the stick LVG gets.

James Hughes
97 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:44:27
Mourinho as our next manager, is that why Rom is talking about playing elsewhere as he knows Jose doesn't rate him?

Very tenuous, I know... but thought I would ask.

Eddy Grundy
98 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:52:35
After giving it some consideration, I'm delighted that Martinez has made Leighton Baines apologise for his aftermatch comments.

He claims Baines's words were misinterpreted and out of context. What he has done is sign his own resignation letter.The board won't put up with Martinez much longer, the players won't back him, and – for attacking one of the best players to grace our kit – the fans will go for the throat.

Even those fans who would not normally rock the boat, must see the damage that he and his Wigan coaching staff are doing to our club. They should be sacked today, –no ifs, buts or maybes.

Brin Williams
99 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:53:43
MP #86 – I have been advocating Mourinho to take over ever since he got the boot at that other lot. In fact, I wrote him a message on some web site or other telling him of the virtues of becoming the next Everton manager.

Now that we have a few pence to spend it is becoming more of a reality – after all he and his ilk seem to follow the money!

Martin Mason
100 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:53:58
What an utter asshole our manager is.
Julian Wait
101 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:55:28
THE END
Bob Boote
102 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:55:49
I used to dislike Martinez... now I fucking hate him!

Baines is more Everton than than the worthless prick will ever be. I think he's trying to show that he's the boss but he's shown that he's the twat.... Again!!!

Eugene Ruane
103 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:55:54
"Whatever happened to the strong silent type?" – Tony Soprano.

Jesus can anyone at Everton just shut the fuck up and do their job?

All of it gets on my tits and all of it is fucking pointless...

'Blah, blah... last 10 games, big push for the supporters... so close... couple more players back from suspension... hoping to push on and give fans a day to remember... getting back to full fitness... repay their loyalty... must pick ourselves up... end on a high... blah blah'

As for Chatty Cathy, you wouldn't want to be in a regiment with him..

Link

Ste Traverse
104 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:56:07
The bloke is a major major embarrassment. He has to go.

Hanging Baines out to dry for speaking the truth is a terrible new low.

As for Prentice, he's done too much 'fiddling while Rome burns' over the last decade for me, but his article on the Echo website regarding this is seriously spot-on.


Get rid....NOW.

Paul Thompson
105 Posted 07/04/2016 at 17:56:45
Sue (#94).

I do think that Roberto gets the club, but unfortunately that does not make him a good manager. His utterings are increasingly desperate and deluded.

Miles Jordan
106 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:02:09
I'm pleased Bobby has cleared up the misunderstanding.

Apparently, when asked if his train was at 3pm, Leighton replied "No, ten to three".

Brin Williams
107 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:03:43
Sue (#94).

"I do think that Roberto gets the club."

All that remains is for him to 'get the bullet'!

Kevin Tully
108 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:04:13
As soon as I read Baines's comments last week, I knew the game was up for Martinez. Once the most senior member of the squad, next to the captain, publicly criticises the manager in the way he did, Martinez was a dead man walking.

Kenwright will be in regular contact with the senior members of staff, so of course he will know exactly how the players view the manager manager & his methods.

Koeman has one more season left on his contract and is refusing to sign a new contract until the summer. He has had players sold from under him since he took over at Southampton – a very competent manager who would be a good, solid appointment.

Steve Woods
109 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:20:53
I think that when Phil McNulty from the BBC tweeted earlier... "Better brutal honesty than delusional – and Martinez would do well to heed Baines's message rather than question it." Is very, very telling as to how there now seems to be a growing consensus among journos that Martinez is a marked man.
Eugene Ruane
110 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:23:03
Kevin (108) - 'Koeman has one more season left on his contract and is refusing to sign a new contract until the summer. He has had players sold from under him since he took over at Southampton - a very competent manager who would be a good, solid appointment.'

True, but if he said "I inshisht on brinkink my own beckroom shtaff", that would mean Sham... er, I mean... Sammy Lee in an Everton trackie.

Not against it in theory but it would look very odd.

Paul Birmingham
111 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:27:05
Well, I believe we knew this would happen after Leighton Baines's press feedback to the Echo after Manure, and it shows the traits and signs of a despot, dictator-bully and cowardly figure who sees only his view of life, values and ways.

Baines, being honest has been made a scapegoat for nothing except speaking the truth. The self-ordained deluded grand master of delusion has sealed his fate in my book. The fans will be less forgiving and this internal battle of minds now apparent in the dressing room must surely mean that the club must accept that now the blight we are on is maturing faster than the spring is blooming, the stench is rising high above Goodison Park.

Moshiri, Kenwright and the board take heed. Watford – the players will be jibbing it or going on the ordinary. The dressing room is now lost, in my view. This will be an interesting month in the history of EFC.

nb: In time honoured Martinez style, Baines will have a soft tissue injury for Watford.
Mark Daley
112 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:28:25
Surely it's time for a TW poll:

"Do you think Leighton Baines should be appointed caretaker manager with immediate effect?"

Geoff Evans
113 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:36:48
Long after this joke manager has gone, Bainsey will be remembered with the highest regard by Evertonians.
Robert Elliott
114 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:37:07
I hope those taking this Baines thing as a sign the end is near are right. Martinez is making a himself look a bigger and bigger prat on a weekly basis.
Steve Woods
115 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:43:47
Robert @ 114, I agree but what is worse is that he is making a mockery of this great club and starting to make us look like a Newcastle FFS!! He is a catastrophic failure and embarrassment. It is not Martinez's fault that he is the way he is... so I lay the blame totally at Kenwright's door for employing the failure.
Doug Earle
116 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:45:14
In support of Bainsey, it's not just Chris Sutton and Souness... Ian Wright says "Martinez can't defend, it's a weakness in his coaching and Wigan got relegated." Owen Hargreaves "Everton are to open with the full backs too far forward most of the time, so there's no cover".

Dan Davies
117 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:51:34
When a manager doesn't listen to his senior players and does what Martinez has done to Baines, a seasoned veteran, it's the beginning of the end. Has to be.

It smacks of a dictatorship and he is making a fool of himself now. The board need to put Martinez out of his misery. The media are smelling the bullshit now too.

Evertonians have suffered this situation for too long, the board need to act because they are looking more foolish day by day. I don't like to see anyone lose their job but it's time for Martinez Grim Reaper moment.

Martinez OUT

Peter Roberts
118 Posted 07/04/2016 at 18:57:27
I'm seriously angered by the this, he hasbput me in a phenomenally bad moment.

Baines for me is one of the only players we have had in the last 10 years who would get into the 84-85 side and comfortably so. Who does that prick think he is doing that to the lad...

Maybe little Leighton is easy pickings... big sulky Rom wants to go? Make him apologise??? Nah, he would bring the world class media down on his arse...

Bye Roberto. Go and join Brenda in the Emirates.

Colin Glassar
119 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:02:46
I haven't read any of the above comments but I can imagine the reaction. Sorry Roberto, Bainsey knows what he said, and what he meant, so you should've kept yer gob shut and let it pass like you've done with Lukaku's agent/dad's comments. You either call both to task or remain quiet.

This isn't the first time players have questioned his management. Pienaar, Jags, Garbutt and Mirallas have all grumbled at some point publicly and we all know what happened to Eto'o and Distin when they questioned him behind closed doors.

To me, this sounds like a man walking on thin ice. A man who has lost the dressing room and is desperate to appear still in control. I think his days are numbered... and now, I will try and read the above posts.

Phil Walling
120 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:02:56
I don't know where 'all the money' on Mourinho is coming from, bwin just offered me 50/1. Other bookies have him at 16s with Klinsman et al.

Bad news is that Moyes has gone in from 7s to 2s during the day. Oh dear!

Paul Hewitt
121 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:07:14
The only good thing about all this, is it must be the final nail in Martinez's coffin.
Jon Cox
122 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:08:28
Are we talking about the same chemistry we had and demonstrated against Chelsea in the quarters?

Because if we are, it then shows that we have some power as a team to switch said chemistry on and off at will.

Firstly, that bodes well for the cup semi; and secondly, what does it tells us about how the team feels regarding Martinez?

Interesting times ahead, I'll wager.

Oh, and I just thought "Get on the Bus" Gus might be looking for a club soon...

Bobby Thomas
123 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:09:54
Martinez has managed to get this wrong on every level.

I imagine in Roberto's mind he will deal Baines out in the summer. Not that he will get the opportunity, of course. Can you imagine what the dressing room thinks of this bullshit?!

Forget the Cup, the dressing room is currently moribund. No one's buying the manager anymore, players or fans.

The derby should be fun......

Jim Lloyd
124 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:10:33
Bloody Hell, Phil... No!!!

I agreed with your post on criticism of Dave Prentice as well.

Ian Hams
125 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:10:42
Never have I seen such a concensus of opinion on this site, it's time to go Mr Martinez.
Paul Tran
126 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:11:48
There was a point towards the end of his first season when Martinez came out and said we needed 7 new players. It was true, but Bill ignored him and I can't help thinking that was the beginning of the end between him and the players. He should have kept it quiet. It was compounded by him leaving them severely undercooked for the following season. As Mourinho found out, there's nothing an English-playing footballer dislikes more than not being fully fit.

His inability to deal with anything credibly since then has dented his reputation with everyone. He is now a shell of the manager we had in season one, playing the strong man to unnecessarily bollock a senior pro who was clearly talking honestly and accurately.

I don't normally agree with sacking managers mid-table. I genuinely think we'd have more chance of winning the three games that matter with AN Other in charge, before a permanent appointment in the summer.

We've sacked a manager before a semi in 1977... Let's do it again. Right now.

Andy Meighan
127 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:11:59
I agree with everyone else on here regarding the manager but posters who are thinking this is more or less the end are seriously deluded.

I could just imagine Kenwright sitting there saying to Jenny, "who the fucking hell do these people think they are calling for Roberto's head? Don't they realise this is a long-term plan this great manager is going to bring Champions League football to Goodison and they think I'm going to sack him. Think again. I run this fucking club not the punters."

As for Prentice, well let's not go there. I'd save my breath screaming for Martinez to go. It's not happening. I'd be massively shocked if he's not there next season regardless of whether we win the cup or not. It's not Bill's way.

As for admonishing Leighton... despicable. Bainesy in our recent history has been one of our best players and a great servant. Let's not forget he could've gone up the East Lancs but chose to stay and that in my eyes makes him a legend unlike the man who is currently managing the car crash.
John Keating
128 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:12:56
Just pisses me off that it has taken an indirect attack on the arseholes at the Echo to cause this much trouble.

Prentice and his stooges should have declared war on Martinez the second he implied that somehow the supporters were to blame for poor results.

It was bad enough when the clown blamed referees etc but he crossed the line implicating us for his incompetence. What did the Echo do? NOWT!

I wouldn't trust the Echo mob as far as I could throw them.

Once the Club invite them all for a clear-the-air session and fill them up with quadruple gins, they'll be back toeing the Company line.

Fucking hypocrites

Christine Foster
129 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:15:17
The man who talked himself out of a job.

There can be no doubt that the confusing, annoying, often patronising and nonsensical press conferences we have endured through this reign have made almost all of us cringe at times, but today, Roberto has actually outdone himself. In publicly hanging Baines out to dry for comments, that were made in good faith and in an honest assessment of the team, he has surely overstepped the mark.

Let me make it clear that the moment Baines opened his mouth and said it the way it is, we all knew he would be made to pay for it. This was the first time that public comments had been made by a player, although it is conjecture that some players have made their views known privately and ended up out of the door; we shall never know.

What we do know is that Baines wasn't taken out of context, has no reason to apologise – except to perhaps understand exactly how his words would be interpreted as a direct criticism of the manager. If he did, then even more kudos to him because someone had to say it.

But in reacting the way he has, Roberto has managed to drive a wedge between players, press, fans and yes, even I suspect at board level. He has overstepped the mark to such an extent that I believe the club management will have no other option but to immediately let him go.

Painful as it is for Bill Kenwright, there is an FA Cup Final place at stake. Do we go to the semi-final with a manager who has clearly soured relations to such an extent that he has managed to alienate players, fans and press? Does he really think we will get the best out of the team under Martinez?

We all know that, when a club changes its manager, it gives a boost and a lift to the team and the club in general. Such a boost may well be needed to win the semi-final now because I fear what respect he did have is now severely and fatally eroded.

Bill has a chance for his day in the sun; he has the opportunity to increase our chance of success and perhaps, with a new owner on board, it's a great way to start a new era. But the longer the decision takes, the less chance of success we may have.

For Roberto, I am afraid his vision has crumbled under the weight of his comments and the refusal to take his share of blame for its failure.

William Cartwright
130 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:19:29
I was going to 'add my comments' as per the ToffeeWeb footer but everything that can be said has been said! But nonetheless, what an absolute pickle of a situation to have got into for Kenwright?

He can't blame Baines – he's already apologized. He can't blame Roberto, he's the dog's bollocks by all accounts. He can only keep silent and watch Moshiri keep silent but move into a stronger position and all will be well. Eventually.

ps: Thank you, Leighton. If you read this, I know you don't know me but, in my humble opinion, as well as being an absolute quality footballer, you are also a proper gentleman in the real sense of the word.

NSNA COYB

Martin Mason
131 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:19:55
Any fan who wouldn't gladly lose a few games to get rid of this man isn't a true Evertonian to me. :-)
Darren Hind
132 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:21:04
Odds on Baines's ankle injury flaring up again before the weekend?

How the fuck did we get here?

Phil Walling
134 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:21:36
Further to my post #120, I wonder who will be first to say, "Be careful what you wish for!"
Paul Kossoff
135 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:22:24
My God, we must be getting desperate. Quoting One bloody Direction song lyrics... surely that proves we have had enough when some are reduced to that. See what you have done, Martinez.
Jon Cox
136 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:22:56
Eugene,

Brian Kidd hasn't done so bad at City....

Ian Brandes
137 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:23:44
Sports reporters like an easy life, and do not ever seek conflict with a club on whom they report. A hint of scandal or controversy, and general news reporters are normally sent in. That way, the sports guy keeps his nose clean, and can say 'not my fault..'

Prentice is actually a straight up guy, and well respected by his peers, so I believe Prentice and I believe Leighton. Congrats to both for taking on this fraud.

Surely it is now time to put this lamentable manager out of his misery. Word is that he will be gone by July, so why prolong the agony for our players, fans, and the club?

Taxi to Parbold for the slippery many-faced deluded señor.

Andy Thompson
138 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:23:55
Today's press conference was the absolute final straw. Martinez is a disgrace and must be sacked immediately. I pray each day for the end of this recurring nightmare.
Phil Walling
139 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:24:12
Christine, his mouth has always been his worst enemy. Just go on Wiki to see why he is so reviled by Swansea fans!
Adam Galloway
140 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:25:18
Just placed 㿞 on Martinez to be sacked at 14/1. It would be two great outcomes if it comes to fruition.
Martin Mason
141 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:26:11
Got a link Phil?
Darren Hind
142 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:26:41
Fuck me, Moyes installed as red hot favourite to get the gig.

I've had it with this club. I'm going to start bee-keeping without a mask. The relief will be bliss.

Rob Halligan
143 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:26:46
Sure we all know this song, but how aptly does it apply to Martinez:–

And now, the end is near
And so I face the final curtain
My friend, I'll say it clear
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain
I've lived a life that's full
I've traveled each and every highway
But more, much more than this
I did it my way

Regrets, I've had a few
But then again, too few to mention
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption
I planned each charted course
Each careful step along the byway
And more, much more than this
I did it my way

Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it all, when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out
I faced it all and I stood tall
And did it my way

I've loved, I've laughed and cried
I've had my fill my share of losing
And now, as tears subside I find it all so amusing
To think I did all that
And may I say - not in a shy way
Oh no, oh no, not me
I did it my way

For what is a man, what has he got
If not himself, then he has naught
To say the things he truly feels
And not the words of one who kneels
The record shows I took the blows
And did it my way

Yes, it was my way

Fuck off, Martinez.

Jim Lloyd
144 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:31:38
Looking back at Jagielka's interview, it puts into perspective how important Bainsey's comments were.

Jags didn't look anything like a leader who spoke for the team in a "bloody hard fight there. Not a great game but lads were giving it all" kind of interview. He looked thoroughly dispirited, dejected and speechless. It puts in clearer light that Leighton's comments were on behalf the team.

Hopefully, the Board will take action, hopefully immediate action, and lance the poison. To delay it will only make things worse, as I see no way back for Martinez after this.

There's Joe Royle around, Kevin Sheedy, Rhino, Dunc... enough expertise and competence to manage affairs until a permanent replacement is chosen.

Colin Gee
145 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:32:05
Why should Leighton Baines apologise for telling the truth?

Martinez has embarrassed himself, the player and the club by saying he's apologised. Bainesy has nothing to be sorry for. Mr Moshiri needs to take Martinez for a Taxi ride.

As for Jose for our next Manager, I am not sure, for one thing he would certainly wind up the RS, but it could end up just as bad as it is now.

Anybody else think that Bainsey will pick up a mysterious injury in training tomorrow?

Chris Williams
146 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:33:03
Fuck off, Martinez. Just fuck right off.

Finally Prentice has grown a pair and written a critical article about this gobshite and hopefully the first of many.

He is flailing about in his desperation and has picked on probably the most balanced, least offensive, bright and intelligent guy in the squad. A Goodison great in the context of Wilson, Newton and Hinchcliffe. Not many better, Roberto, if you know your history.

This bloke is a total prick and if he leaves Baines out on Sunday it will confirm everything we are seeing.

Just fuck off, charlatan!

Will Firstbrook
147 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:33:48
Brilliant logic to publicly admonish a senior player for something like this right before a Cup semi-final. He would have likely had enjoyed some public support if he had done the same following the latest comments coming out of the Lukaku camp. However, seemingly unable to help himself here and chooses to bollock a respected and popular member of the senior squad. How could that possibly backfire?!

The poor judgement and lack of leadership demonstrated here is embarrassing at best though will likely prove suicidal especially now that the press are finally getting into it.

One thing Bill could never stomach is bad press.

Phil Walling
148 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:33:59
Not very computer savvy, Martin but just try:
www.wikipedia/RobertoMartinez

Iain Davies
149 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:34:10
#123 imo you got it spot on.

"Martinez has managed to get this wrong on every level. I imagine in Robertos mind he will deal Baines out in the summer. Not that he will get the opportunity of course. Can you imagine what the dressing room thinks of this bullshit?!

Forget the Cup, the dressing room is currently moribund. No one's buying the manager anymore, players or fans."

Bobby Bullshit just leave, none of us are buying it, and now a member the team starts to give their honest opinions too, they're not buying it either.

Jay Harris
150 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:36:56
The man is so deluded I don't even think he knows what he has done now.

I just hope "Brush it under the carpet" Bill will have the decision taken out of his hands.

Mick Davies
151 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:37:59
So Marajuanez (the stoned one) is forcing people to apologize for what they've said? Well how about him apologizing to the fans, board, BK and the shareholders for saying he would get us into the Champions League – or was he misinterpreted? Maybe he meant the Championship.
Jack Cross
153 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:39:04
£8 mil to pay Martinez off. Unbelievable what being unsuccessful can bring you in wealth.

Let's hope Moshiri has more insight and gets shut. It will be the best £8 mil that he will spend.

Colin Gee
154 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:42:07
Just when you think it couldn't get any worse....

Anthony Taylor is the ref for the Semi-Final; he makes Twatenberg look like a decent ref.

Linda Morrison
155 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:42:15
Jack, you are so right my friend.

Onwards and upwards!

Garry Corgan
156 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:42:27
MARTINEZ OUT!

Utter embarrassment to the club and incapable of admitting his own mistakes and shortcomings. Now he's shown himself to be a shithouse who'll happily piss all over one of our greatest professionals. He tried it with Eto'o and Distin and was given the benefit of the doubt, but not this time.

Mr Martinez, you'll alienated the players, the fans, and now the media. So just piss off.

Paul Setter
157 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:50:45
It's all well and good moaning about it on here, but last time I went to Goodison I hardly heard a murmur towards Martinez or a banner held up until that happens, Roberto Martinez will still be manager.

Spurs, Liverpool and West Ham fans certainly don't tolerate it why should we just brush his guff under the mat each and every day.
Christy Ring
158 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:51:42
Sack him now, how can the players respect him after publicly reprimanded a senior player for telling the truth.

Let Joe Royle and Kevin Sheedy, who's doing a superb job with the youths, take over first team duties until the end of the season.

Phil Walling
159 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:51:59
Jack Cross, perhaps we could offer him Niasse in lieu of all that compo.

ps: I'm sure severance payments would have been inserted into Roberto's contract(s) with the club. BK ain't that daft. Is he?

Tom Magill
160 Posted 07/04/2016 at 19:57:10
I applaud Bainsey for his honesty and bravery,it looks like Prentice has finally had enough too of Martinez's bullshit.
We need rid of this dangerous clown asap please,it's just unbelievable now.There must be someone with a set of balls at the club who can get him out.
Jamie Crowley
161 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:01:53
This sums it up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro

Peter Griffiths
162 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:02:51
Well, in my opinion, that will now have turned the majority of the dressing room against the snake oil seller and the vast majority of the supporters if they weren't already there.

Flags, banners and chants "We Want Martinez Out", you never know after his snake-oil selling is foiled, we may well now have a realistic chance of winning the FA Cup!

Keith Harrison
164 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:07:51
Mr Martinez has handed you the petard, Mr Moshiri. Could you please do the honours, and hoist it with alacrity. Before the Merseyside Derby would be brilliant.
Anthony Flack
166 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:10:33
What a tosser, hopefully like Nero fiddling, but this time before Rome burns.
Brian Mahoney
167 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:11:35
Spot on Eugene, Koeman will do for me.

He's had to sell most of his best players two years on the trot and has still managed to get his team playing attractive football and challenging for a Europa place.
Anthony Flack
168 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:13:19
More constructively he has just demonstrated how weak he is. Unable to recognise the truth and trying to be the big leader....

Everyone will see through this ill advised but insightful garbage..

Out out out.....

Gary Willock
170 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:16:12
So, in the spirit of holding hands up if you do wrong, I assume an apology for two shite seasons is coming out shortly with no room for misinterpretation? If not, add 'hypocrite' to the list of Charlatan, deluded, ignorant, twat. Fuck off Martinez, Bainesey is worth 5 of you!
Colin Glassar
171 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:18:40
I want to see Bainsey sat behind a non-descript table in a darkened room with a strong, blinding light in his face.

RM - "Leighton, tell the nice people you were misinterpreted and you are very, very sorry"

LB - (Blinking erratically) "I'm very, very sorry boss.

RM - "Leighton, tell the nice people that you and your team mates love and respect me".

LB - (Blinking madly) "We do, master, we loves you preciousssss"

Watching this on a grainy B&W telly in another room, multi-lingual want-away, Romelu Lukaku, looks at his bezzie, Super Kev, and says, "Mon dieu Kev, Bainsey is doing ze morse code wid ze eyes. Ee say, 'SOS, dis man ee a nutterrrr".

Paul Tran
172 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:19:30
I think he's playing shit or bust here. This is him saying 'back me or sack me'. It's the only card he has left and he's calling/bluffing his bosses.
Ian Riley
173 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:21:24
Jack 153. Sadly, Mr Kenwright put Martinez on a 5-year contract after his first year finishing 5th. He over-reacted. If he had stayed with the original three year contract, Martinez would be allowed to leave on a free this summer! I think managers can take a cheque and walk away or be paid until they find another job.

Sadly Baines told the truth. Martinez doesn't like players being outspoken and being critical of him. There appears to be a breakdown in communication between the manager and players. Only ever one winner there! However, this is Everton!!

Alastair Donaldson
174 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:24:13
Baines should be made captain after this and put back on pens immediately!!!

Hope the end to this "era" is finally in sight; totally agree with others saying he should go now, FA cup or not.

Stephen Brown
175 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:25:51
Joe Royle – caretaker boss leading the team out to FA Cup glory! 21 years after the last time!!!
Don Alexander
176 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:31:18
Ray Jacques at #48 brings up Bobby Bullshit's Wigan record, and rightly so. In a nutshell, for the Premier Leagyue, it was this;

Wigan had had four years in the PL before Martinez took the lead. In those four seasons they suffered only eight 4 - 0 hammerings, but nothing worse. That's only two per season on average.

In the worst 15 of Martinez's Premier League defeats during HIS four years as boss of Wigan the aggregate score was 74 - 1. Yes folks, 74 - 1..... truly. And the “1” came in a 9 – 1 defeat......truly. Leaving his one goal aside that's very close on four 5-0 hammerings per season for four consecutive seasons, and never mind the other defeats, of which there were plenty.

Taking over a team that had been 11th the season before, in his first season he had the distinction of conceding the most goals, by 12, than any other surviving team. Only one surviving club scored less than Wigan too, and all three relegated teams had better goal differences. Wigan ended 16th, their best ever position whilst he was there.

In fairness I'm sure he'd claim improvement in his second season because he only had the worst goal difference of all the surviving clubs. In his third season he “improved” again, because there was actually one surviving club with a worse goal difference.

Then, after such year-on-year improvement Wigan had a disappointing moment, as he might say, because he achieved relegation.…

And then Kenwright signed him.

So, if Martinez (or Kenwright) is looking for an incredible legacy as a phenomenal manager in the Premier League the above did it for me even before he continued his charlatan/pants-on-fire performance with us. He's done zilch to change my mind. He's a fake......yet some are still in the thrall of what he calls a “great philosophy”. Dream on.

What a manager indeed!!!!

Raymond Fox
177 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:35:12
I said in the other thread about what Baines comments were; find me anything in what he said that is critical of Martinez. He is blaming the lack of chemistry between the players. It happens in teams all the time, you wouldn't expect them to be happy with the results and the criticism they have been getting.

Then you have the differences in contracts, some of them also not giving 100%, the defenders are letting soft goals in too often and so on. Add to that Stones and Lukaku wanting to leave and play for a 'big club' in Europe.

Nobody came back and pointed out where he criticises the manager. All this anti-Martinez crap in both threads is based on what you want to believe, not on the facts.

I think you should take a minute or two to actually read what Baines said!

Mike Powell
178 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:37:56
Really starting to despise Martinez... just get out of our club.
Martin Nicholls
179 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:38:29
Final nail would be if Bainesy went public and not only reiterated his comments (adding that they have not been misinterpreted) but also that he has not and will not apologise for them. Go for it Bainesy.
Nigel Munford
180 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:44:15
If I were Leighton I'd be asking for a transfer, the man's a complete bully boy!!!! It's too late, Martinez – your time's over here.....
Martin Nicholls
181 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:45:54
Agree fully with Steve Guy @ 94. Moshiri does not need Kenwright or anyone else to sanction his actions. He has the absolute power to sack Martnez now and I sincerely hope he does so.

As for Kenwright, shame on you for your unswerving and continued support for this fraudulent manager. Do yourself and us a favour by publicly withdrawing that ridiculous comment you made after the quarter-final.

Tom Brown
182 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:52:11
Entirely dishonourable by Martinez.

Forget the team performance, anyone acting like this has no place in our club.

Out.

Paul Tran
183 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:53:09
Raymond, I'm not a 'Martinez basher'. A senior player criticises his colleagues and presumably himself for lacking chemistry. That one is difficult to argue with, as they've been playing like strangers for a while.

So the manager comes out and, for reasons I find difficult to fathom, says that Baines has been misquoted and misinterpreted, but has apologised.

I can't see any point in this, other than an attempted show of strength by a manager looking and sounding increasingly out of his depth.

I'm not one for pedalling 'facts' about what's going on behind the scenes. This doesn't look good to me. His results, his team's performances and his increasingly hollow "jam tomorrow" statements aren't helping his authority. I can't see how publicising an alleged misquoting and unnecessary apology can give him any more credibility with anybody.

James Kenny
184 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:58:06
Robbie Robbie Robbie out out out
Robbie out
Robbie out
Robbie Robbie Robbie out out out
Christine Foster
185 Posted 07/04/2016 at 20:59:21
Raymond,

When you are implying that the team fashioned by a manager is not gelling, not coming together as the manager says it will, when you say there is no chemistry, it implicitly suggests that there is no bond between the players and manager. That's why Martinez hung Baines out to dry, because it put HIM in the firing line.

Martinez understands this... which is exactly why he has done what he has done to Baines. He could have chosen to privately express his annoyance with Baines but no, he obviously felt an opportunity to blame someone else, again, for his inability to put a team together with tactics that work.

Stewart Lowe
186 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:00:23
How frustrating is it to hear such soft questions to Martinez by the media. Bobby bullshit is getting away with murder here, pure lies, utterly delusional and politician answers every single time.

You can just imagine the media team at Everton before the press conference: "You can't ask Roberto if he is deluded. You can't ask Roberto if he watches the same games as the rest of us. You can't ask Roberto if he has lost the dressing room. You can ask Roberto if he is looking forward to the cup semi-final." – Whilst Everton media dictates he only answers biased questions, we will never get him to confront all the questions that we need answers to.

Roberto is like an Iraqi leader that tells you all is well when his troops are being obliterated, and the portrait that was erected on the side of the stadium seems so appropriate now... ha ha.

Jim Bennings
187 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:05:48
Sack him now to give ourselves a chance of winning the Cup.

Players will have lost all respect now for Martinez.

Nigel Munford
188 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:07:12
It will be interesting to see the team sheet at the weekend...
Colin Glassar
189 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:13:57
Interesting that Stewart, you mentioning that portrait of Roberto. That seems to have been the starting point of his megalomania and his road to ruin. I should've seen that coming.
Stewart Lowe
190 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:17:26
This is a must read, and I bet every single one of you will read it think, Christ Martinez and his system is totally flawed.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/these-football-times/2016/mar/07/Roberto-Martinez-brendan-rodgers-pep-guardiola-Everton-liverpool

Matt Henderson
191 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:28:31
Roberto Martinez is the David Brent of football management. He even dances like him.
Andy Walker
192 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:32:23
Bye Bye, Roberto. I said you were a loon from Day 1 and with every passing week you (sadly) reinforce it.

Bainsey, you're class.

Andy Ellis
193 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:33:20
Raymond (#177), how many times has Martinez banged on this season about the great chemistry in the team? Bainsey's comments were definitely a pop at him and rightly so.

Today's press conference was the most ridiculous yet, he's alienated everyone surely now, he's an embarrassment to the club. He's the luckiest manager in the Premier League; at no other club would he still have a job.

Jim Lloyd
194 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:37:23
Raymond, I never took Bainsey's statement as overtly critical of Martinez. What I thought it implied was exactly what he said. That there was something missing "a lack of Chemistry" in the team and it had been there for a while. Our team's performances since Chelsea down there have been gradually becoming more and more spiritless (that's how I see it anyway).

What got me, and I guess many others, was Roberto's response. Bainsey said something that I found hit the nail on the head – "a lack of chemistry."

How our manager reacted was worthy of the severe criticism he has received because he came out publicly and said what he said. Leighton felt there was something missing in the team's make up. He said it to Phil Kirkbride, as I understand, as he was walking down the tunnel after the match. It wasn't a prepared statement, I feel it was what he felt and had done so for some time.

Roberto then went further and put his own interpretation on the issue regarding team moral and that's fair enough I suppose. But to follow that up with a public dressing down of a senior player and to then follow it by accusing the Echo Report "misinterpreting" Bainseys' words is tantamount to accusing the local press of lying. I liked what Dave Prentice did, as he thoroughly repudiated what Martinez implied.

I think that's the reason a lot of people, including me who has supported Roberto up until his excuses started coming out, have just about had it with the man. I don't see the episode as "Martinez bashing exercise." I see the vast majority of posts on here are saying enough is enough.

I cannot see him having the continuing respect of the team after this. My view is that he should step down now before the situation goes worse.

Andy Walker
195 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:43:18
'Including me who has supported Roberto up until his excuses started coming out, '

Jim, with respect, he was making similar excuses when manager of Wigan. This behaviour is NOT new.

Jim Lloyd
196 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:51:03
I didn't say it was, Andy. I said that I'd supported him, as I believed that with the players he had, he would do much better than while he was at Wigan.
Patrick Carty
197 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:51:50
Martinez is turning our club into a joke. 'Hate' is a strong word but I hate this man with a passion.

Please someone within the club, grow a pair of balls and sack this fraud before it's too late.

John Keating
198 Posted 07/04/2016 at 21:56:30
Jim,

I have to agree with Andy. A lot of posters seem to think that this is the first time Martinez has made an arse of himself.

Why were not these posters as vociferous last season as nothing has changed?

Even more disgusting was when he blamed the support for his team's inadequacies. That was far worse than this Baines situation.

Xavier Spencer
199 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:17:35
I have never known such a consensus on a thread on this site. It feels to me that we're one or maybe two more shite results from the situation boiling over and fans in the ground venting their frustration.

What happens if we implode at Watford and Leighton has been dropped? Chanting Leighton's name will surely send a clear message. Alternatively 'Fuck Off, Martinez' would do the trick but I reckon we're too classy for that.

Ian Riley
200 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:17:37
Martin (#181), I thought Moshiri owns 49.9% of Everton. If Mr Kenwright convinces the other board members not to sack Martinez and it is put to a vote. Martinez stays. Moshiri cannot sack Martinez alone. He will need the consent from other board members.

Sadly Martinez will be in the dugout next season.

Neil Steele
201 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:18:09
I think the manager has overreacted to this, but I do think Baines's comments were negative and unhelpful – the media jumped on the headline, and so have fans... so the evidence is there that it clearly DID do damage.

Most though, I just find it very sad and demoralising to see how hate consumes people's lives and clouds their judgement and morality.

Baines is a 'hero' now... should get an ovation... be made captain... for causing the manager a problem.

Same Leighton Baines who hasn't topped a cross for about two years, defends like a traffic cone, and is utterly fucking useless without Pienaar.

Strange how people's minds work! My enemies enemy is my friend, eh.

Maybe if the little soft arse got a proper haircut and started playing like a man instead of a ponce, then we would keep a few more clean sheets. Just a crazy thought like.

Brent Stephens
202 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:23:50
Neil Steele #201 "I just find it very sad and demoralising to see how hate consumes people's lives and clouds their judgement and morality."

"Maybe if the little soft arse [Baines] got a proper haircut and started playing like a man instead of a ponce".

As you say, Neil, hate consumes and clouds judgement! Condemned by your own standards.

Dave Older
203 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:24:08
Why on earth should Baines have to apologize?! He is just telling the truth! Baines has nothing to apologize for. Has Martinez watched us in the last couple of games? Seriously? We have had no chemistry, like in the majority of games this year let's be honest.

Martinez is seriously doing my head in! I can't take much more of him. Sick of it all. I have followed this club for 30 years and I can't remember feeling like this about any manager.

I am losing more respect for Martinez as each day goes by. How is he failing with this squad? How? I need some happy pills! Anyone?

Brian Williams
204 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:24:58
Neil, I think people are onto your "I'll just oppose the popular feeling and be really controversial" routine.......

John Aldridge
205 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:26:00
I'm loving the fact that the press are now turning on Martinez. The more pressure that gets heaped onto this charlatan the better. Only a matter of time before the Goodison crowd turn on him too.

If Moshiri is pumping money into our great club, he's not going to stand idly by while this clown destroys it. I'd rather he went sooner rather than later – defeat in the semi or final will be the final straw for me and he should resign if that happened... yet we all know he's too arrogant and stubborn to do the right thing.

Utterly disgraceful the way he has hung Baines out to dry. Get out of our club you sorry excuse for a manager – you don't deserve to stand on the touchline of the hallowed turf. Sod off and let someone else who knows how football works show you how it's done.

Jim Lloyd
209 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:32:14
John,
I'll be happy to debate all the issues you've raised with you and Andy personally over a pint or on a thread devoted to the reasons some supported the manager longer than others.

In fact, for the record, and I put it on ToffeeWeb about his comments regarding us. That was one of the "excuses" I was referring to.

I don't believe that the term "excuses" was my right choice. It was the beginning of me noticing his penchant for sliding blame onto others.

I don't think it was more disgusting to blame the supporters. I thought it was disgusting to blame the supporters and I think it was equally disgusting for him to come out and publicly castigate Baines and then follow it up by implying that the Echo had, in fact, lied. I think that will also make the team moral lower than it already is

As for "those posters not as vociferous last season" (that includes me) I can only speak for myself. There was no reason for me to. I wasn't calling for him to go. I was looking forward to a better season this season and I often put my views on ToffeeWeb, that he'd had to cope with a lot of long-term injuries for the first part of last season and in my view things began to improve in the second half of the season.

So don't make the mistake of judging people on their perception of his ability (or lack of it) to mould a good football side, as we all see football differently. For me this is aside from his football management skills or lack of them. I didn't see that he'd lost the dressing room last season.

What I think about the man now is that he will stoop at nothing to shove the blame onto others. That is why I'm saying that he should go because this episode has blown all previous support/ non support arguments apart.

What I've said is that I don't think he can continue any longer having said what he has.

Paul Birmingham
211 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:37:03
Baines has been honest, a value Martinez has never known, and never will. The fanciful, outrageous treatment of any party with a different view to his within the club or outside the club, is drawing to a close. This is gross insubordination against a player and the fans. The final line has been crossed and the biggest bullshitting manager in Premier League history, will be despatched in due course.

Baines has consciously been honest and effective, and done this for the club, he has more spiritual knowledge and understanding in his little left toe, of our club, than the self-ordained high priest of bullshit will ever have. Sad days, but from despair, will come fresh hope. It will happen.

Farhad Moshiri must be decisive and lance this Spanish ulcer for good. The club must look forward, and 24 months of bullshit, excuses, arrogance and contempt must be closed and a new dawn heralded, Moshiri surely must see the true picture? The fans don't lie, the Premier League table, don't lie and facts over the last two seasons don't lie.

How did Martinez ever get his license as an FA pro coach?

Ian Lloyd
212 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:38:14
I log on everyday in the hope to see that wonderful "BREAKING NEWS">> Everton FC Sack Roberto Martinez for being a Phenomenally diabolical manager.

I find it sad though that only 1,771 Everton Fans have signed that Martinez out petition..............GET ON THERE BLUES AND SIGN IT!!!

We need this clown out of our club now regardless of the sodding FA Cup.

James Royston
213 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:39:36
I posted a few days ago that Bainsey had voiced his opinion before that brought on an injury for a few games... What might it be this time? "A strange illness"???

Perhaps there should be a players' revolt with others backing him. Mirallas is said to have been outspoken as well, look what has happened to him this season. Good enough for his country but on occasions not even good enough for our bench. A huge protest needs to be made by the fans at the next home game – and I mean huge. This guy just has to go NOW.

I am 76 yrs and saw my first match when I was 7 years old. There have been some crap managers in that time but I have never known one who insinuated "Everyone is out of step but me."

SAVE EVERTON FC
MARTINEZ OUT NOW.

Bobby Thomas
215 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:41:47
I took the "chemistry" referred to by Baines as basically meaning team spirit, which has self evidently gone. And this won't help it.

Some players haven't been buying him for a year or more. Coleman has been consistently underperforming & not really enjoying his football. To my eyes anyway. I think the tipping point may have been the West Ham game. The performances have visibly dropped off.

I just don't understand how he thinks mis-representing the whole situation, in terms of what Baines has said & the Echo's role in reporting it, can possibly help. He must have serious problems in the dressing room & is desperate to assert himself.

But nothing works. Threats of no future, no FA Cup semi place, the Man Utd game was the reaction after Arsenal(!)... nothing works. He's done.

Robert Duncombe
216 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:41:50
It is just good, Tommy, when somebody within the ranks of our beloved club says something that is truthful. First we liked Bobby cause he was positive; then we realised that this positivity is verging on being a fantasist.

So the reason why Baines is being applauded is because, after three years of being led by Heather McCarthy and having to listen to his poppycock, we have an honest response to our inept displays and in turn his rather poor tactics.
Andrew James
217 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:43:37
Neil Steele,

Are you ok?

Really, you seem to come on here determined to post something stupendous or incendiary.

I will concede Leighton's form hasn't been great for 2 years but the same goes for Seamus. Coincidence?

Plus, we have been led to believe we don't practice corners so that can't exactly help one of our corner takers now can it?

And why bring his hair cut into it?

When we signed Leighton and Jags in 2007 I was delighted, seeing them as two mainstays for our team for many years. Neither has disappointed me. If you were talking about Aiden McGeady, it might have some sway... but Leighton Baines?

Come on.

Les Martin
218 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:45:13
Maybe Baines's comments are just the tip of the iceberg compared with what's happening behind closed doors?

I admire him for his frankness; hopefully a few more will show some backbone and do the same.

And for those of you who want Martinez out, then I suggest you do the same from the terraces with voices and banners. He is not worthy.

Andy Ellis
220 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:48:12
Neil 201, shameful comments about Baines, short memory lad. His record speaks for itself, was still excellent for us when Pienaar sat on Spurs bench, he got the best out of Pienaar over the years. Really sad to see an Evertonian make comments like that.
Peter Cummings
221 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:49:03
Baines has 'apologised', For What???? Of course he was right and we all know it. Martinez has sunk to a new low, if that's possible.

Baines has a right to his opinion, even if, in this age of "Don't do as I do, just do as I say", the man has lost the plot completely by humiliating a man who epitomises local loyalty to his club and its fans; something sadly lacking in the foreign imports.

Ian Smitham
223 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:55:31
Neil Steele, #201, credibility destroyed
Tony Abrahams
225 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:58:03
Martinez is finished, and so will our season be if Anthony Taylor is going to referee our semi-final. How can a man from Altrincham be allowed to referee Man Utd, in an FA Cup Semi-Final? Especially against a scouse team???

Cheated in one semi-final in Manchester, I honestly think Taylor fucking hates us, and it won't surprise me if the same thing happens at Wembley, if this is true.

Joe Clitherow
226 Posted 07/04/2016 at 22:58:06
By the way, as for Martinez, an incompetent and nasty vindictive little man consumed by his own sense of self-preservation who is not just showing his true colours now, as, for me, they have been evident for a long long time. But he is making them much more obvious for those who have not been able to see through him, probably because they did not want to believe the evidence.

I don't believe, Sr Martinez, for one minute that Leighton Baines has apologised for anything, since you, Señor, are a liar and a dissembler of information, and a delusional megalomaniac, and it is hard to see where each one of those "qualities" starts and finishes along the scale of lies and delusion.

Liar!! GO!! GO NOW!!

Joe Clitherow
227 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:03:13
Tony A

So far as I know, Man United are not yet in the semi-final and you could equally argue that someone from the North West should not referee a NW team against a London team if that was the outcome.

Let's not prepare excuses just yet eh? That's "Manuel's" modus operandi surely?

Tony Abrahams
228 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:10:31
Neil says the manager might have over reacted? Joe, is much closer to the truth.

Roberto Martinez has got no credibility left now, it's very sad, but he should go.....right now!

Max Levy
230 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:15:10
Thank you ,Leighton. You took one for the team, as they say. This situation should have been sorted after the Boxing Day debacle against Stoke.

In the end, it's taken one of our own to expose what many of us have been saying all season. Martinez has now lost the fans, the local press and the dressing room. He won't recover from that.

Wembley seems an irrelevance right now. His disgraceful comments regarding Baines are the nail in his own coffin. Thanks Leighton, thanks again.

Tony Abrahams
231 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:17:32
Joe, I don't know who you mean by "Manuel's", but I'm not one for excuses mate, never have been.

I honestly believe that Taylor hates us, and if I'm right and we go out of another cup because of poor refereeing, all the excuses in the world will mean nothing.

I also think your last sentence was without much thought, Joe, when everybody in football knows about the intense hatred in football, between Mancs and Scousers, when it comes to football.

Andrew James
232 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:22:34
Bizarrely, Taylor might try evening things up for us the way refs do.

But we are past refereeing decisions. We have a set of players who can hurt anyone. They're currently mis-managed.

I wouldn't put it past them to trash either Utd at Wembley.

Under Moyes when officials decisions went against us I was sometimes appalled and other times thought "Well, yes, Davey, but you told them to drop back and defend deep, thus bringing the opposition onto us."

Under Martinez I just think "You are leaving too much to chance by not defending properly and not managing the game properly."

There is luck and then there is asking for trouble. Martinez invites the latter.

Jay Harris
233 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:24:39
Neil
You are the one showing the hatred.

Leighton Baines is a model pro. Gets his head down, does his job and is no publicity seeker or trouble causer.

Everyone else sees the deluded bullshitter for what he is and I am not talking about Bill.

Joe Clitherow
234 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:28:30
I think people have got Leighton's comments wrong. They weren't premeditated or designed to embarrass or break ranks. They were clearly taken in the tunnel straight after the game and were entirely 100% honest thoughts when high on adrenalin and emotion, not tempered by any politics.

And so, so much more powerful and more of an insight into what is really happening in the dressing room without modification by Martinez' Orwellian Doublethink and Newspeak. So, despite my post above, it is possible LB has apologised for breaking ranks unintentionally, or maybe it really was Macchiavellian and intentional (Machiavelli? And a professional footballer? In the same sentence?), or he has just had enough. But the motivation doesn't matter as either way the cat is well and truly out of the bag, and El Thicko has only served to highlight the fact instead of dampening down. He just can't help his own gob, whatever he tries to do to shut up his players.

Luke Garbutt anyone?

Jamie Crowley
235 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:29:34
It's all very sad really.

We have, in Martinez, a man who was in my opinion, putting together one hell of a young, talented squad. There's a lot of positives from his reign. They've been done to death, I see no sense in re-treading the old arguments (especially now that I've called for his removal). ;0)

But I just wonder where the hell it all went wrong - especially the last 3-4 weeks. Arsenal, Man U... the players were just terrible to be honest. There's no fight, no passion... and it was after last week's game where it seemed there's just no return, for me personally at any rate.

Now these comments from Martinez. Why? Does he not realize the polarizing effects of his comments between himself and the players? It's like scorched earth around Goodison lately.

He simply must go now. There's no other way I see out of this. The players aren't playing, they clearly aren't happy, and Roberto is hanging veteran players out to dry IN PUBLIC. What did Leighton say that's so gawd-awful??

It truly is a mess and something must be done about it.

I saw a future under this man. The open play, the signings, the concentration on youth... He was implementing a culture from top to bottom that would surely see growing pains but could have really found gold in the end.

Seems the last 3 weeks he's turned any degree of hope into a steaming pile of shit. And the crazy thing is, he's not helping himself at all with his comments.

What could have been... he has to go. The whole atmosphere is cancerous.

Ernie Baywood
236 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:32:40
Many on here seem to be giving Martinez's point about misinterpretation validity by claiming that Baines's comments were a direct pop at him. I don't see it that way, I just see a pro who knows what good teams have, acknowledging that it's just not coming together for us. That's a collective responsibility – everyone at the club. The only possible alternatives are bad luck or players who just aren't good enough. Bad luck has no credibility left and if Baines had said his teammates weren't up to standard then an apology would be deserved. You might think it, but you don't say it.

But if Roberto felt people were using the comments to unfairly beat him up then he completely misjudged his response. He made the comments about him. Baines had spoken sense, it was Martinez who changed the meaning.

Martinez obviously has shortcomings. I want the guy gone but I really thought he had one set of smarts... the ability to keep players, management and media onside. He just blew his cover on those.

There's no-one left who can't see that the emperor is naked. His bollocks more evident than ever. All that's left is for Bill or Moshiri to put a towel around him and march him out of the spotlight.

Joe Clitherow
237 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:33:01
Tony,

You missed the point. Man Utd aren't in the semi-final yet. Read my post again. You can't claim Man Utd referee bias just yet.

As for Manuel – have you not seen Faulty Towers?

Tony Abrahams
238 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:36:59
Jamie, it must have been the West Ham game, or maybe it was The Arsenal game, or was it the semi final at the Etihad when his introduction of Kone, just opened up the pitch for Man City.

Doesn't matter when it was, but to try and paper over what Baines said like this, is very, very insulting, to anyone who is connected to Everton FC.

Steve Bell
239 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:38:30
There is no misinterpretation, misrepresentation of Leighton's comments, nor do I believe he has apologised.

Leighton Baines has been spoken out and spoken the truth. Martinez has disgracefully tried to humiliate him in the press.

These are the last actions of a despotic bully trying to cover his own backside. The board fiddles while Everton burn.
Joe Clitherow
240 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:40:16
Jamie C

You come across as a little confused/bemused/disappointed. A bit like a Creationist at a Dawkins lecture to be honest.

There is a much simpler explanation which answers all your heartfelt questions in your post and it is nothing to do with the last 3-4 weeks.

You maybe aren't quite all the way there yet, but if you take the approach of Occam's Razor, think on the posts many on here been have been submitting for a very long time now, and challenge your own thinking just a little bit more, it may all fall into place.

Just a suggestion.

Andrew James
242 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:44:10
I would love it if Joe Royle was put in charge for the end of the season with Big Dunc assisting...

Will never happen yet raises happy memories.

In real world, I seriously think the board won't get rid even if we go out of the Cup and are done at our former home.

I have this horrible feeling he'll still be here in June.

Tony Abrahams
243 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:44:32
Joe, I never missed your point, but I did miss your reference to daft Manuel, haha, sorry! Maybe mañana will bring about some better news... But Anthony fucking Taylor will be the death of me! Goodnight.
Kev Johnson
244 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:45:19
Bet you he's not here for the semi. 🙏
Zahir Jaffer
245 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:48:31

I'm sure Moshiri is already looking for replacements. Sacking Martinez is only half the job, replacing him with someone who can get us Champions League football is a task and a half.

Moshiri will turn into a fan favourite as soon as he sacks Martinez. I, for one, will be crying with joy. I cannot see our club suffer anymore, each passing day with Martinez is just more agony. Watching our team suffer like this prevents me from wanting us to progress to the final; if that's the cost of Martinez's head then so be it. Maybe a loss to Watford would be enough, here's to wishful thinking.

Michael Kenrick
246 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:49:32
Ian (#200),

It's all speculation when it comes to predicting how things will pan out in the Boardroom, but your scenario (of Kenwright getting the other Directors to outvote Moshiri based on share ownership) definitely won't be one of them as there is a whopping 30% of shareholders who are NOT represented on the Board. This means that 49.9% of the outstanding shares gives Moshiri 70.6% effective personal control of the Board.

As we keep saying on here, Moshiri has more than effective control, if it were to come to that. But it doesn't seem likely, as Kenwright is now a minority owner. He may hold sway over Moshiri based on personality and experience in the role – that can't be ruled out – and friendship or trust can easily be soured (à la Paul Gregg).

It's getting to the point where something has to be done, and maybe Moshiri sees what's what... but we have no idea. We simply don't know.

Don Alexander
247 Posted 07/04/2016 at 23:59:24
"Neil Steele" is an anagram of "Ten Lies Eel"............... perhaps a feeble joke that a Spanish person with very, very occasionally imperfect English might perpetrate! We must be approaching ten by now though, so hopefully the joke will soon have run its/his course.

For what it's worth I agree with Brian Williams at #204.

Paul Birmingham
248 Posted 07/04/2016 at 00:02:19
JC @234, I endorse. this is becoming biblical in magnitude, and the heart and soul of EFC, and the manner it's being destroyed by a despot is now untenable, and must be stopped. I sense the club is approaching the end of this debacle, and the bullshit and mega-shite over-hype must be terminated immediately.

The reality is in the demise our our club, this fella's ego and immense sense of immortality is far more important than anything else. The body language, tone and reducing appetite for fair feedback and dialogue, shows of a man at the end of the road, but for no good reasons, he has cultivated well his own hole to fall in.

This month, God help us, but the BBS and Fraud Manager, ever known at EFC, must be taken out of control of this team. Temporary fix: Sheeds, and Reidy lead by Unsworth for the last few games, could at least galvanise some pride, which was lost at Bournemouth, and Man Utd at home, and has sank and been lost since.

So to bring in some, much needed guts and bottle, and a new manager to be secured asap. This terminal damage must be contained, the kids of today can't be scared by this farce any more. Worst period in history and due to the manager's tardy reluctance to show contrition and humility, it is for me the final conflict.

Jim Lloyd
249 Posted 07/04/2016 at 00:05:07
Jamie, it is sad because there was promise of the team rescuing the season and getting it something like back on track. But the Chelsea game away, the Leicester and Stoke games at home, and others.

It went from good (in spasms plus frustrations as well) to losing silly points regularly and then to the excuses and sliding blame onto external factors until finally this.

I agree with you, there is no way back from this. I hope the Board will take action but with Kenwright their, I don't see it. The only way will be if Mr Moshiri dives right in and sorts out the situation and tell Roberto "Thanks for your efforts, goodbye and good luck in the future."

Andy Crooks
250 Posted 07/04/2016 at 00:07:42
The worst coach in our history and possibly the worst coach in the history of the Premier League and we still have him. The late Harold Matthews was of the opinion that Martinez was not a nice man. Spot on, Harold, once again. He is vile.
Jamie Crowley
251 Posted 07/04/2016 at 00:08:24
Joey C -

I am confused... a bit. I thought there was "a way forward" so to speak. Turns out not to be that way.

Bemused – no.

Disappointed – yes. Because, despite the fact you may think an American who's never been to Goodison can't possibly think this way... I'm disappointed every time we lose. And I'm very disappointed in the current climate and landscape.

I do take on board dissenting views. It would appear, as you've warned previously, I put too much stock in "hope". But don't think just because I held to my guns for a longer period than most, that I didn't take on board all the arguments and viewpoints contrary to my own. I just, at those particular points in time, disagreed and wanted to wait a bit longer to see how this "experiment" would pan out. An experiment that, in my opinion, could have yielded fantastic dividends.

But I did have real hope. And for that I stood firm.

That's gone now. The Club needs to act – and soon. Roberto must go.

As you've been saying for some time now.

John Crawley
252 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:14:30
It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the next week. We've got 2 away games in a week, against Watford and Palace, who are both prospective opponents in an FA Cup Final.

If we lose both then I think the board have to act and remove him. Put Joe Royle in charge with back up from the likes of Ferguson, Sheedy and Unsworth till the end of season.

Andrew James
253 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:18:05
Oh Andy 250!

Don't mention Harold... I am still upset I learned only last night of his passing. I liked him a lot, just like I do you telling us you post after some big uphill walk...

Back on topic – Moyes left a legacy which Martinez is ruining.

FIRE HIM

Jack Convery
254 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:23:46
I read the Prentice article at lunch time and thought at last the penny has dropped with the Echo. The one who should be apologising is Roberto Martinez to Leighton Baines.

Under Martinez, Baines is now an understudy to Danny Rose – just think about that. Jags is now a backup to Smalling and Cahill!! Stones has gone backwards as we all know. No, Señor Roberto you should apologise for taking apart one of the best defences in the Premier League.

I really do believe you think you are up to managing Barca and you saw Everton as the stepping stone for your delusional dream. Please go and on the way out tell Baines you apologise for not only hanging him out to dry to cover up your numerous shortcomings but for ruining his England career too. Adios!
David Edwards
255 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:26:38
If the almost unanimous opinion of TW reflects the view of the majority of Evertonians out there and on the terraces, then Roberto has just waved goodbye to any support for his continued future at the club. The hanging out to dry of our Leighton is surely the final straw.

MARTINEZ OUT.......NOW.......I don't want him at the Semi-Final – as it seems such a distraction for him and the team!??

Mr Moshiri – time for that chat to Blue Bill!


Brian Porter
256 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:35:01
Never seen so much solidarity (Neil Steele excluded) for a long time, nor so many posts so quickly. Martinez has descended to the gutter now and has to go, the sooner the better. Baines was perfectly entitled to express his opinion and has nothing to apologise for. To publicly treat him like this simply demonstrates what a nasty-minded, vindictive little Hitler our pathetic excuse for a manager is. Speaking of Hitler, anyone noticed his one arm salute when we score?

Seriously though, his own words should now be enough to consign him to a footnote in Everton's history. Surely the feeling against him can now only fester and grow and will hopefully boil over into all out hatred at our next home game. I only wish it was this week.

Something has to be done to get this parasite out of our club. I say parasite because he sits there blaming everyone else for the team's woes whilst earning millions of pounds and doing fuck all to correct or change the situation. I most heartily despise him and in 57 years of supporting Everton have never felt like this about a manager before.

For God's sake let's hope the board have the balls to get rid, the sooner the better. If not, I can see the team imploding between now and the end of the season.

Leighton Baines forever, Martinez never!!!

Now there's a good chant for the next few games.
MARTINEZ OUT.

Andy Kinsella
257 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:45:34
This man has to go. I dream of the day I see the yellow bar across my TV on Sky News: "Martinez leaves Everton". Get rid of him and his staff including Ferguson who seems to do absolutely nothing!!

Calls himself a blue? If I was sat on that bench I'd strangle Martinez. Bring back Stubbs and have Unsworth as his number 2. Please make my yellow bar dream a reality and soon.
Kase Chow
258 Posted 08/04/2016 at 00:49:49
Baines is a proper Evertonian. Quality footballer, loyal and the best attacking full back I have ever seen.

Martinez is a charlatan. Baines was open and honest and Martinez has picked on the wrong man.

I back Baines. Please leave, Martinez.

Dan Davies
259 Posted 08/04/2016 at 01:08:03
As somebody who wants a new manager pronto, I personally love "Neil Steele". My thinking is maybe Mr Steele is using reverse psychology on here. Very clever!

Keep posting, Neil. If anyone on TW is going to whip up a shitstorm against Martinez and force the board to act, it's you. Crack on, mate... I think it's brilliant. Very good!

C'mon Farhad and Bill – Act Now, PLEASE!!!

Iain Johnston
260 Posted 08/04/2016 at 01:38:30
I'm of the opinion that now he want's to be sacked by constructively putting himself in such an untenable position.

He's such a man who believes he's always right so to be removed from his job before HE feels he's had enough time to fulfil his ambitions will feel to him like our loss and his gain. He'll spout that he's the victim of the club's shortsightedness as the team were on the cusp of greatness.

After things inevitably improve once he's gone, he'll then pontificate how he was right all along in a similar fashion to how Mike Walker did after the midweek derby win which was Big Joe's first game.

Stephen Sullivan
261 Posted 08/04/2016 at 01:41:08
Don (247) Not as bad as the anagram for David Ginola which is.............Vagina Dildo
Peter Gorman
262 Posted 08/04/2016 at 01:44:27
I recommend the John Keating drinking game; every time he mentions a measure of gin, I drink it.

'Tis the only way to cope.

Ernie Baywood
263 Posted 08/04/2016 at 01:46:34
Jamie Crowley #251 Interesting post. There seems to be an accepted internet wisdom that the first to revolt is the wisest. Sometimes that's reasonable but when people compete for first place the "early" marker keeps moving until we end up celebrating people who leap to unfounded conclusions on day one.

I'm like you. I could see the positives in an appointment like Martinez. No,I wasn't happy with his appointment but I could see what he could bring. To be fair, he even followed through on some of those.

I gave him time, I held onto some hope. I don't feel particularly foolish for that, nor should you.

He's a gonner now.

My greatest fear, though, is that we do another 180 degree turn. Functional football might have us higher up the league with a lesser chance of ever winning anything.

Mick Davies
264 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:12:29
Tony Abrahams @ 225 is correct. I have the 2013-14 season dvd and there are the two worst instances of a referee despising a club I've seen since Twattenburg....

First, is Cardiff away. Baines (probably the most honest player ever) runs, full throttle into the area and is SCYTHED down for what was the most nailed-on spot-kick you'll ever see. What happens? Ref turns away uninterested.

Fast forward a few weeks and it's away at Villa; their player is contesting with Seamus and the ball goes out, but the Villa player falls over – never a pen – and before he even hits the deck, the twat in black has the whistle in his scabby mouth.

What's the connection between these two incidents? Well as you've probably guessed, it's Anthony 'I hate Everton' Taylor.

Now although I have no time for Moyes, I think he would have brought this to the attention of the (sweet) FA, and more importantly the media. Will the 'Weak One' do the same, or just blame Baines's comment if we lose?

Don Alexander
265 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:16:32
I say this with 100% respect but most of our various overseas fans, and especially those in the USA, seem to share the perception that Martinez had some sort of clout even before he was identified as the next man to lead us to glory, found as he was all of 20 miles from his own front door (mind you, he had pushed the boat out with Moyes in travelling nearly 40 miles to find him!), by Blue Bill.

If you haven't done so chaps, take a look at his true Wigan record, above at #176.

In the cold, hard, miserable UK you'd be sectioned if you said his record of Wigan spoke of rich promise or anything like it, but here, as I'm sure you recall, the chances of sunstroke are zero.

For Dave Whelan read "Del Boy". And then for Blue Bill read "Trigger".

"Trigger"? Oh, the irony. Kenwright's so far up his own ass he's long since disappeared as a credible chairman. He'll never pull the trigger.

So please, Mr Moshiri, just get rid of the pair of them.

Darren Hind
266 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:17:21
Andy Crooks,

I look out for your posts, I like that you will challenge posts you disagree with, even when its with me... but "Vile"? Come on? You're better than that.

I've been a long-time critic of Martinez, I've never really believed he was good enough for us and have said so on an almost daily basis, but emotions are running very high and some of the comments on here are (IMO) going beyond the acceptable.

He's not vile, He's not a cunt, He doesn't want to pipe enchanting music to our children, leading them to disappear forever into a mountain in Gwynedd... he just isn't as good as people told him he was. That's all.

Criticise him by all means, but know his time here is very nearly at an end. Let him keep what's left of his dignity and for fuck's sake, let's make sure we keep ours.

We're not Geordies – That's probably why we don't get relegated on a regular basis.

Darren Hind
267 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:30:56
Jamie C

"I put too much stock in hope."

So does everyone else in here mate. Don't let them tell you any different.

Michael Long
268 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:39:48
Can someone answer me these two questions:

What would happen if (pray to God it doesn't) we lose to Southampton (9th home defeat of the season), a hiding from the RS with a weakened team, and – worst of the worst – no effort in the semi final?

If so, would there be any preparations or protests for the Bournemouth game a week later if Martinez is still there?

Jamie Crowley
269 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:46:03
Ernie @ 263 -

You may have just summed up my near 3 years of hope under Roberto more succinctly than I could have ever done.

Functional football might have us higher up the league with a lesser chance of ever winning anything.

I'm with you 100% on that one. Absolutely, positively spot on.

Eugene Ruane
270 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:51:38
Darren (266) - Agree.

Every thread that mentions Martinez just turns into a mass vent - pitchforks and flaming torches are grabbed and the castle is stormed (except..it isn't).

'You think you're angry, wait til you read what I'M going to say!'

(by the way, who is 'GO NOW!' actually aimed at?)

Imo 95% of all RM posts could be replaced by 'Martinez - GRRRRR!! and we'd be no less enlightened.

Loko Sanchez
271 Posted 08/04/2016 at 02:56:36
Aaah.... the classic denial syndrome. It's worst than I thought.
Jamie Crowley
272 Posted 08/04/2016 at 03:10:01
Darren @ 266 - yes!

Darren @ 267 - yes.

**Darren mate, if you ever come stateside, I've got a beer for you and I've got your back with my pump action Winchester, Smith & Wesson AR-15-.22, Remington 700 .30-06, Canick TP9SA 9MM, and Glock 42 .380.

Anyone messes with you, they mess with me... ;0)

** The above was an American style joke to a fellow TWer who will unequivocally understand it was a joke made to him with warmness and affection... Do not be offended, please minimally giggle or simply disregard.

Paul Ferry
273 Posted 08/04/2016 at 03:13:25
Darren (Hind) - 266 - wonderful beautifully pitched post from someone - you - who would drive Martinez's taxi anywhere buts says so with measured prose and points for the most part.

The vitriol and the repetitive venom is: (1) unnecessary (2) embarrassing (3) unfair to someone none of us know off the pitch.

All you need to say is this: he has had three years; it isn't working; he is one of the main architects in his own downfall; his public statements reek now of desperation and, even more sadly, a lack of balance, and (this is the atomic one) he has never NEVER! if my memory serves took a significant degree of not blame but responsibility both in terms of individual games or the collective and chronological malaise.

Let's really narrow it down: for me it has been 2 holding mids home and away ALWAYS and playing lads out wide who are not natrual - forgive me - wide boys when there is natural width straining at the leash on the bench.

There's no need to call him xxxx or xxxxx or xxxxxx or xxxxxxx (in what sometimes seems to be a race to out xxxxxxx the other fella).

The Arsenal game was a death blow for this already sceptic and his public handing of himself and here blue blood Leighton reveals a level of avoidance and misconception and miscalculation that takes me back to the days of Mike Walker (erm Andy mate, no way is Martinez the worst ever manager).

Martinez is gone. I suspect he knows this already. I suspect he has been told so already (that might partly explain this recent litany of public tripe).

My hunch - that's all it is - is that Moshiri is putting in a shift behind the scenes and not just in terms of bagging more shares. No way does Kenwright call the shots in the summer. Moshiri has already decided - perhaps before he got his 49.9 - that Bobby is history.

We will have a new gaffer for 2016-17 and if I am only partly right about Moshiri no way - thank God - will it be the bookies apparent current favourite.

That would be more distressing to me than Martinez being in the hot season when we open the season at Brighton away (you heard that here first).

Jermaine Jennings
275 Posted 08/04/2016 at 05:09:11
RM should listen to what he said in the press conference and I quote.

"We expect a senior figure at Everton to take responsibility"

Yes Roberto you are the senior figure and you should be taking responsibility for our terrible season and up until now you continue to blame everybody else. The Watford manager recently said that it was his fault his team haven't won long in the league for 10 or so games and they are also distracted by the FA Cup and that shouldn't be the case and as manager it isn't acceptable and he needs to put it right and as a team they shouldn't accept such low standards.

Now if Roberto actually came out with something like this then it would be refreshing but he hasn't got the guts too and instead he uses the cup competitions to justify his managerial credentials.

He is a weak, cowardly manager who will soon get what he deserves, I hope!!

Tony Gavin
277 Posted 08/04/2016 at 06:43:04
I think a "Stand up if you love the Baines" is required.
Phil Walling
278 Posted 08/04/2016 at 06:46:19
For all the noise of yesterday, Martinez is only half-a-dozen wins from salvation.

If that half-dozen includes the FA Cup, he can start planning for next season. Such is the fickleness of football supporters!

(And the intransigence of our football club chairman.)

David Barks
279 Posted 08/04/2016 at 07:06:08
The manager is a coward and is being exposed more and more. And by the way, credit to the local media for raising their voices and not ignoring the garbage being spouted by this manager and listening to the local support.
William Cartwright
280 Posted 08/04/2016 at 07:13:07
Paul Ferry:- Nice post Sir. Absolutely spot on. You are right at so any levels. I'd by you a drink of your choice (but I live in the Middle East!)

I especially like the he footnote regarding the start of next season. on was 'quite phenomenal. The Redshites had a dream start ; Away to Stoke; the opportunity to make amends for their close out debacle. No motivation requited! The only time in premier league history that the last match was repeated from 1 season to the next! No bias there obviously.

As Liverpool will be at home, then of course Everton will be away to a promoted side. That is the was of things.

Why Everton's managerial dilemma is being blatantly ignored is a reinforcement of their dismissive view of the Club. However if we get rid of Martinez I believe the tide will turn eventually. At the moment I have got faith in Moshiri because a) he has obviously delivered big time in the past to have achieved what he has, and b)
his silence at this point in time speaks volumes. He has appointed his right hand man to the board and that's enough for now.

COYB - NSNO

Peter Mills
281 Posted 08/04/2016 at 07:34:41
Eugene (#270), Paul (#273). You are 2 staunch supporters, I always respect your opinions posted on here. However, I do not agree that the anger being expressed is unreasonable or unnecessary – in fact just the opposite.

I try to take a measured view on all things Everton, something that can be difficult to do about a club that means so much. But I made up my mind about Roberto Martinez some time ago, and it has been painful to attend matches and witness his sheer incompetence and pig-headedness. The torpor of the crowd (me included) has been brain-numbing, and now I am delighted that a head of steam has been built up to rid ourselves of a man who is a danger to Everton FC.

Personally, I don't want him anywhere near the semi-final and maybe, just maybe, a wave of anger may bring about his departure.

Up the Toffees. Now, what time does the pitchfork shop open?

Steve Bell
282 Posted 08/04/2016 at 07:47:57
Phil (#278)

Half-a-dozen wins? Given the fickleness of football fans everywhere, I will say he is just two wins away from salvation... both at Wembley.

I pray I am wrong and a giant foot comes down from the sky to squash Snr Martinez (Monty Python style). Preferably today.

Ray Smith
283 Posted 08/04/2016 at 08:23:45
Listening to TalkSport on the way to work this morning, the subject of Baines & Martinez was discussed, and they came down firmly on Leighton's side. Also, they said Martinez had made a fool of himself and the fans have had enough of his excuses.

The issue continues to gather momentum. Would a loss at Watford seal his fate?

I almost feel sorry for him on the 16th against Southampton. Even then, he won't walk, he will have to be sacked.

Tony Abrahams
284 Posted 08/04/2016 at 08:49:21
Just read the rest of this thread and think Darren sums it up best. Martinez, has shown himself to be very stupid for thinking we're stupid, and I don't think there is any way back for him now, Phil.

Tony (#277), very good choice of song mate, and Mick @264, I went to bed last night honestly thinking I would prefer Clattenberg to ref the 1st half, Atkinson to ref the 2nd, and if it goes to extra time we can bring back Clive Thomas, rather than have this horrible man, "in charge" at Wembley!!

Eivind Nyhus
285 Posted 08/04/2016 at 08:50:29
This is the last drop. Martinez must go, shitting on one of our best players to look better himself is inexcusable.
Ray Robinson
286 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:04:41
I didn't see the post-match comments by Baines but if all that he actually meant by his reference to lack of chemistry was "there's no joined up play in the team at the moment" or "the dressing room's a bit flat", then it's pretty ironic that Martinez himself has highlighted this misinterpretation.

Apart from his many obvious coaching deficiencies, it's his big gob (for want of a better expression) that has set me against him. Never have I heard so much delusional, inane bullshit in all my life as during his tenure.

Colin Glassar
288 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:16:00
The more I think of this, the angrier I become. How dare he say Bainsey was misinterpreted!! Bainsey's English is be'er than yours, Roberto.
Anthony Dwyer
289 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:20:34
Colin, we both know Baines was not misinterpreted, Martinez is just a total bell.

He has to go.

Eddie Dunn
290 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:25:55
These are the death throes of Martinez. Turning on one of our own, a man who has always given his best for the cause. Remember Baines on telly last season criticising our Europa performance. The lad is honest.

This control freak is showing his true colours – he is not the nice guy many like to think he is. He is poisoning our club and needs to be removed before he does any more damage.

Sam Hoare
291 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:33:51
Sad to see the club in this way at the moment with more fighting off the pitch than on it. Surely there can be no coming back from this for Martinez irrelevant of our cup fate?

Don't want to become the next Newcastle but 3 seasons is a more than fair crack at the whip and things have never looked worse under his tenure.

Let's hope Moshiri will find the right man to step into the hotseat.

Mark Dunford
292 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:35:16
Leighton Baines gave a simple, candid description of the team and the way it is playing. For those of us who've watched the games this year, it was impossible to disagree with and it had the virtues of being constructive and supportive.

I'm sick of hearing about how great the individual talents are in the squad (I accept the point but repetition inflates expectations) when the real issues seem to be that the team is short in key areas (we must the only squad that needs two goalkeepers). The squad lacks depth in others while has a surplus of talent in some areas (contrast right and left side of midfield for example), some of the star names seem to be ready to jump ship (understandable in circumstances – does anyone expect Stones and Lukaku to be around next year?) and a number of the promising youngsters don't seem to ready for first team squad aged 19/20.

A lot of this is down to leadership and management so it is clear where the blame lies. I can now add to the list of gripes about Martinez (whose appointment I supported but he has lost his way badly) is that the tendency to criticise some players in public while letting others off the hook is simply unacceptable and is really not fitting behaviour for someone in his role.

Feels like a semi-final defeat could trigger an unravelling that would be the beginning of the end.

Brian Porter
293 Posted 08/04/2016 at 09:59:05
Latest poll now 82% (over 10,000 votes) in favour of immediately sacking Martinez. Very few want to see him in place for the semi final and even fewer want him to remain in place till the end of the season.

The charlatan has really cooked his own goose this time, I think. Belittling one of our senior and most loyal players for simply speaking the truth is both unwarranted and totally unacceptable.

Get rid of him, someone, please!

Michael Polley
294 Posted 08/04/2016 at 10:05:37
It is now blatantly obvious he has lost the dressing room. The end is nigh for Martinez.
Brent Stephens
295 Posted 08/04/2016 at 10:09:03
"The chemistry is not quite there" can be interpreted in different ways (and has been on this thread, I think). Has Baines said anywhere yet what he meant by that? I might have missed it in previous posts.
Kim Vivian
296 Posted 08/04/2016 at 10:15:40
Baines's treatment under Martinez has been diabolical...

He was accepted by most as one of the best left backs in Europe.
He was knocking in penalties (one of the highest conversion rates of all players) and free kicks for fun.
He was nailed on for England's left back berth after Cole who he displaced.
His marauding runs up the left flank were devastating (mainly with Pienaar).
His free kicks and corners were landing on a sixpence.
etc

Now...

Not going to the Euros
Never takes a pen or direct free kick - left to Rom to flap about. I'm amazed when any of his apparently scuffed pens actually go in so was not a bit surprised against West Ham.
Seems unable 50% of the time to get his free kicks past the first man.
And generally seems not to be the man (player) he was.

RM seems to have sucked the life out of Leighton and I believe if he was not such a staunch Evertonian he would be off in a shot. And I wouldn't blame him.

And as for his quote and interpretation of same, and RM's view of what was said. Actually sounds like my wife – 50% of the time the words that come out of my mouth are not the same words that land in her ears. RM's got the same problem.

OUT NOW.

And right now the thought of him parading around with the FA Cup if we can pull it off is depressing.

Ray Robinson
297 Posted 08/04/2016 at 10:28:42
Kim #296, a bit of perspective required maybe? You don't think that Baines's apparent decline in form is down to having been injured, the absence of Pienaar and maybe advancing years and lack of confidence? I know let's blame it on Martinez. I don't know why I'm defending the buffoon but it all smacks a bit of the pitchfork mentality alluded to higher up in the thread.

One thing that I can agree on is that Martinez should have re-instated Baines as penalty taker after Mirallas-gate. No way is Rom a good penalty taker despite what the stats may prove.

Oh and I can share the sentiments regarding misinterpretation by the wife too!

Iain Davies
298 Posted 08/04/2016 at 11:19:15
Just read an article in the Echo here is a quote from Bobby Bullshit


Need to restore tempo

"Martinez said that Everton, who have lost their last three league games, need to rediscover the “intensity” and “tempo” from their FA Cup quarter-final win over Chelsea.

And the Blues boss insists the formation and balance they had that night at Goodison is what they must strive for in the remainder of the campaign"

I guess, Bobby Bullshit, you're talking about a "lack of chemistry" – you complete tool!!

Peter Roberts
299 Posted 08/04/2016 at 11:38:20
Ray - no pitchfork mentality here.

I wanted Martinez and defended him right up to the West Ham game.

There comes a tipping point when you ask yourself the question:-

"Is it more important for this manager to be proven right – or is it more important that he does what is right for Everton?"

His substitutions in that games were akin to a player trying a Paneka penalty watching the goalie save it and then getting another penalty and doing the same. Pure arrogance and a complete disregard for his duty as an Everton manager.

How dare he say "Baines was misquoted and apologised" when every single fan agreed with what Baines said... Baines could have been more honest and brutal but he never–- he has more respect than to do that.

His "project" is up. In the words of Maximus to Commodus – "The time for honouring yourself will soon be at an end"....

Kim Vivian
300 Posted 08/04/2016 at 11:40:43
Ray, I agree about getting back from injury and stuff, and of course the Baines - Pienaar chemistry was spot on but I don't understand how it affects him kicking a dead ball. Sure, no one is going to remain at their peak and performances are always going to fluctuate and eventually decline, but psychologically he appears to have been affected other than by injury.

I've thought that for a long time, and I blame Martinez. I have said before that I believe Martinez is a real Jekyll and Hyde character and is probably quite intimidating behind closed doors. If you look at the characters of our squad and the perceived lack of spine and leadership qualities which many on here maintain, that may make them quite susceptible to a negative reaction from a domineering control-freak type of person.

I don't necessarily agree with the lack of leadership qualities but it does seem that some of the stronger characters have been ostracised in the past for whatever reason. We all know the names, but cutting back to the chase, Baines in my view is under performing for reasons other than injury, just missing Stevie and tactical balls ups.

As are many of the squad for that matter...

Ray Robinson
301 Posted 08/04/2016 at 12:05:45
Peter (#299). I agree with you. I want him out as much as you now obviously do. I just think that Kim apportioning all Baines's current problems to Martinez is a bit OTT. I fail to see how a crap manager makes a player fail to deliver a decent cross, for instance.

There must be other factors involved and trying to attach all current issues to a lamentable manager does smack a little of "pitchfork" mentality to me. It's like people are trying to seek out ever more outlandish reasons to prove something that is blatantly obvious anyway: Martinez is not good enough

Nick Wall
302 Posted 08/04/2016 at 12:10:09
The Prentice article is a pretty withering attack on Martinez – strong stuff by the Echo's standards. Alongside the Baines interview itself, another sign that Martinez's days are numbered.
Iain Latchford
303 Posted 08/04/2016 at 12:27:41
Sack Martinez. Sell Lukaku (if he wants to leave) for £60m. Sell Stones for £40m (good business). £50m from TV money. £50m from Moshiri. Call Mourinho and tell him he's got £200m to get us back where we belong.
Matt McAllister
304 Posted 08/04/2016 at 13:50:51
The was I see it, Martinez is using this to distract us as fans, and the club, away from what is really happening. I haven't seen us play exciting football since, well, 2 years ago, where we played the "deciding" match against Arsenal for champions league.

The players have no faith in Martinez any longer, and seem to be waiting for him to go. We need someone higher up in the cub, to tell us as fans, and the players, what is going on, and to state how long Martinez has, if any, because right now, there is no stability in the club, as no one knows who will or will not be here next season.

Either say Martinez has got another season to get it right (yes, I know its unlikely,) but at least that gives the players some kind of future planing, because like I said, at the moment nobody knows what is going on! Or fire him now, and make the players play for their position for next season.

James Marshall
305 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:00:27
I'm glad all this is happening – it's one thing us all wanting Martinez out and whining about it daily on here, but this is actually something tangible.

Baines will be backed 100% by us over RM any day of the week, and the Echo have done the right thing in saying Martinez is basically full of shit, and Bainesy was right, so I see this as the real beginning of the end hopefully.

The players will all side with Bainesy as well, you can guarantee that. I get the feeling that Martinez isn't well liked any more, and not just by us supporters. The players are turning, the press are turning, even the die-hard Martinez supporters on here have turned.

Let's hope for a mutiny!

Matt McAllister
306 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:06:05
James, I seem to remember us playing Hull away from home, and I recollect myself saying he has lost the dressing room. It's now been a year and a half, why hasn't something been done already?
James Marshall
307 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:14:25
Because maybe then you were wrong, and now you're right?
Steve Woods
308 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:19:32
Matt #306

I think the answer to your question is Bill Kenwright, the man who employed this deluded failure and fantasist.

What a manager eh Bill, what a fucking manager.

Bill Gall
309 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:21:07
During my working years, I was in charge of the underground maintenance department of a large mining company and always remember what I was told by the president of the company, and this is were Martinez has made his biggest mistake.

The saying "If you want to gain respect from your employees, never criticize them in public" – do it in private interviews.

Patrick Carty
310 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:30:28
I know Bill Kenwright is an Evertonian but please for God's sake come out and sack this manager before people start holding up Kenwright Out posters.

You made a mistake, hold your hands up. We all make them.
Mark Andersson
311 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:44:33
Well it took me 12 hours to read every post. So much to take in. The floodgates have been breached. Martinez will drown in his own delusional self importance.

The real blame for over 300 posts is Bill "what a manager '. Yes, vent your anger at the Spanish egotistical fool, but seriously Kenwright is the real delusional one.

I have advocated for more than a year now that Roberto is not a nice man. His contempt towards senior pros like Distin, Eto'o, and now Baines shows him up to be a true...... Depending on your state of mind, fill in the rest.

I personally blame the egotistical Kenwright as he saw a kindred mirror version of himself in his "what a manager "

Paul Birmingham
312 Posted 08/04/2016 at 14:47:19
Spot on, Bill. His man management skills and total lack of respect of any one with a different view, and the rediculous tales of woe, and excuses, sums up this foul chapter in EFC's history. How did he get his coaching badges, is beyond me.

Bainsey playing tomorrow. Will be interesting to see the starting line up. Let's win it for the supporters, for Baines and for common sense that the board put this nonsense to an end this weekend.
Richard Leeming-McHale
313 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:06:04
Remember the good old days when we all were so happy that Bainsey didn't follow Fellaini to Man Utd??! How times have changed...
Steve Brown
314 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:19:11
I think the main emotion that Roberto elicits is extreme disappointment. He was never up to the job but his first season... well me amongst others were delighted to eat our words.

But his philosophical zeal borders on pathalogical stubborness that will cost him his job at the end of the season. His recent interviews have blamed refs, claimed were should have won games, excused some players' but hung others out to dry. But I think that is down to the pressure he is under the growing realisation that his coat is on a shaky peg.

Mr Moshiri's silence his deafening. He has not made a single supportive remark about Roberto since he became the biggest shareholder. And the fact that he is not on the board makes no difference. If he gives Martinez a vote of no confidence he is done.

Like Paul Ferry, I think Mr Moshiri is assessing which manager he trusts to spend the major investment he will make in transfers this summer. It wont be Martinez so we just have to put up with him till the summer.

But I've nothing against him personally - he seems like quite a nice bloke and my guess is good company of a decent rioja.

Frank Crewe
315 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:20:36
@Steve Woods

I don't see how Kenwright can be blamed. RM's first season was a good one. Finished 5th with a record points total. Then it looked like Kenwright had picked the right man. How was he to know that RM would lose the plot so badly?

Personally I would not like to choose a manager for a middling football club like Everton. The vast majority of managers never win anything their entire careers. They just move from club to club until they retire. Yet these are the guys chairmen have to choose from.

Unless you are the chairman of a rich club which allows you to pick from proven winners, Mourinho, Guardiola, Pellegrini, etc then you will always be taking a chance. Pick a known plodder like Pulis, Allardyce, Pardew etc who'll always disappoint in the end. Or pick an up and coming young manager. Moyes was unknown. He did ok. Mike Walker a flash in the pan at Norwich, totally out of his depth at Everton. RM looked good but has proved to be another flash in the pan.

Hopefully Moshiri will be picking the next guy and with money to spend maybe we can attract a proven winner instead of a careerist plodder or a young unknown quantity.

Kim Vivian
316 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:29:21
Tell you what tho' – Martinez really knows how to get a thread going – over 300 posts in 2 days...

What's the record anyone?

James Marshall
317 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:40:07
316 negative posts, as opposed to 316 negative passes in a match, Kim?
Andrew Laird
318 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:43:12
Martinez's defence is about as good as the team he coaches, surely this delusional fantasist has to be relieved of his duties before he says something really, really stupid...... If that is even possible?
Peter Roberts
319 Posted 08/04/2016 at 15:44:30
All we need is Baines to say "I never discussed my comments with the manager"....
Iain Latchford
320 Posted 08/04/2016 at 16:03:51
IF Mourinho wants to stay in England where will he go? I personally think LVG will still be the Man Utd manager next season, so what are his other options?

Spurs – No
Liverpool – No
Man City – No
Chelsea – No
Arsenal – No

Why couldn't we get him? He was 33/1 a couple of days ago. That's now 16/1. Worth a cheeky tenner??

Ray Smith
321 Posted 08/04/2016 at 16:30:36
Brent 295#

Brent, apologies for my post yesterday.

Frank Crewe
322 Posted 08/04/2016 at 16:30:50
LGV will only remain at Utd if they qualify for the CL. If they don't he'll be out the door. Quite right too. Considering he's spent £250 million on players. He's worse than Martinez. All that cash spent and he has a youth player as his main striker. They hardly looked any better than us.

Personally I doubt Mourinho will ever manage Everton. He needs a bigger stage to massage his ego than we can provide.

Ray Smith
323 Posted 08/04/2016 at 16:33:39
Frank (#322),

You're probably right but he does have a soft spot for the noise the Goodison fans generate.

You never know!!

Iain Latchford
324 Posted 08/04/2016 at 16:37:00
Like where though Frank? His options are limited from what I can see :

Madrid – Been there and ZZ has only just taken over.
Barca – No
PSG –What's the point, and Blanc seems to be doing just fine.
Bayern -– No
Juventus –No

We should be placing ourselves alongside the clubs I mentioned in my first comment. We're nowhere near as the Premier League table shows. Getting him would be a massive statement of intent. I don't think it's as unlikely as some people think.

Paul Andrews
325 Posted 08/04/2016 at 16:56:52
We need a top name manager to take over from Martinez. It's just as important we get a top class coach.

There are plenty of coaches qualified to get the job, coaches who could improve this team of undoubted quality rapidly. Coaches who have watched Everton this season.

If the coaches available have the knowledge of what Everton Football Club is all about that would be even better.

Form an orderly queue, please.

Paul Ferry
326 Posted 08/04/2016 at 17:04:48
Steve Brown (314): 'But I've nothing against him personally – he seems like quite a nice bloke and my guess is good company of a decent rioja'.

And that's just it Steve – a final nail in the coffin – the Catalan does not drink. How can we have an Everton manager who does not drink? A single sip of champagne in his entire life, he says.

TEETOTAL MARTINEZ OUT!

Kim Vivian
327 Posted 08/04/2016 at 17:27:10
And by all accounts he's house hunting in Cheshire...

And very good... ha ha James.

Peter Roberts
328 Posted 08/04/2016 at 18:05:14
I don't think Sir Bobby likes Mourinho.... we could get him.
Steve Guy
329 Posted 08/04/2016 at 18:11:03
Good debate on TalkSport earlier. RM is not fooling anyone anymore. Jason Cundy talking sense for once. Fans phoning in also consistent with everything being said on this site.... Martinez out regardless of the FA Cup.
Steve Woods
330 Posted 08/04/2016 at 18:20:33
Frank (#315),

In my opinion his appointment was at best a lazy appointment and that's being kind. Others would say that it was a grossly negligent appointment.

You ask how could Kenwright know [Martinez] would lose the plot so badly? The probable answer is that if Kenwright had taken the trouble and effort (due diligence) to analyse RM's PL record of decline at Wigan in the previous 4 years culminating in their relegation then It would have highlighted his failings and exactly all that is wrong with his management.

Kenwright compounded this disastrous appointment a year later with a knee jerk extension to his contract and improved terms. Totally forgetting to think about first season syndrome or whatever it's called, unlike clubs like West Ham who for example have it in their managers contracts that no extensions or renegotiations will take place until they are at least into their eighteenth month, thus protecting themselves against first year syndrome.

I agree with you though I do not envy anyone having to select a new manager. However as alluded to above I have continued to wonder what thought processes led Kenwright to appoint someone who had, only weeks before managed his club into relegation.

Ray Smith
332 Posted 08/04/2016 at 20:35:14
Steve 329#

Same comments on Talksport this morning Alan Brazil, Ray Parlour and a journalist. All three praised Leighton and ridiculed Martinez.

The pressure is starting to build from angles Martinez could not have expected.

I'm not going to Watford so I will see what the team on Soccer Saturday have to say!!

The sooner the better.

Andy Crooks
333 Posted 08/04/2016 at 20:35:23
Darren, # 266, quite right. That post was written after an evening in the pub. Often the editors protect me from such stuff (you really don't want to see the stuff they reject). However, although I have little respect for Martinez as our coach, calling a man I have never met vile, is just silly.

I couldn't get logged on tonight and it appeared that there was a heavy volume on the site. I thought for a few thrilling seconds that he was gone. Not yet.

Colin Gee
334 Posted 08/04/2016 at 20:43:27
Matt (#306),

It was around that time I thought the same, we got beat by a very poor Hull side and none of the players looked arsed, from memory we played a back three of Barry, Alcaraz and Jags. Hull could have had a bag full that day, it was obvious that it wasn't working yet Martinez never bothered to change the system, sound familiar?

Couple of weeks before we got beat by Southampton in another awful performance were he made no subs and didn't change the system that wasn't working from the start.

Again sound familiar?

Finally some good news though, had an email from Everton to say my Semi Final ticket is en route as we speak!

Ian Smitham
335 Posted 08/04/2016 at 21:23:34
I have watched this thread develop, and aside from a few, very few, there is a great deal of consistency in the contributions, which is a bit inconsistent with the wide and varied views on most things on ToffeeWeb. Most issues attract all sorts of views, many conflicting.

Leighton Baines gives me the impression, for whatever reason, that he is a thinking man, and that he has said what he has said has made me wonder.

He is clearly the senior pro at the club, aside from the Captain, who, by definition must tow the line, and so if he makes comments that are not the sanitised stuff we are fed, then it seems to me that it is not only his view but one that he has the support of others in making. I have heard that there have been delegations of players who have made their views known.

I said on here around Xmas 2014 that the Manager should go, and my view remains the same, he lost me then and it looks to me like he has lost the players now.

Sad really, him going before the semi would appear a little churlish, so, to be fair, he has the right to see how far we can go in that trophy, but if that is the end of the cup run, and in fairness, when was the last time we had two semis, in football terms anyway!!, then it should be the end of a Manager who, for me has bought quite well, but is not good enough and I do not want anymore of the Wiganerton stuff

Brian Murray
336 Posted 08/04/2016 at 21:46:19
I think the clubs biggest danger is the rotating dickie bowed buffoon who employed him and won't sack him until the shiesters maul us in the derby and probably not until Xmas.
Matt McAllister
337 Posted 08/04/2016 at 22:18:14
Colin (#334),
My point exactly, nothing has changed since the year we got 5th, if anything we are going backwards. But I don't know whether sacking him is the answer.

Was it luck that got us 5th? Maybe. But he changed the way we played, brought Lukaku in, and although at the moment can't be arsed, on his day he is our biggest threat.

I am on the fence with Martinez, but all these new bits of information about Baines etc, isn't helping. Let's see what a possible FA Cup win, at least does to the mentality of the players, and if we still are playing more backward passes than in a Rugby game, then he has to go.

Stephen Davies
338 Posted 08/04/2016 at 22:25:30
Ian (#324),

I'm with you. I may even have a cheeky bet. His first choice would be Man Utd; however, it looks increasingly likely that LVG will remain for another 12 months and that Sir Bobby is not keen anyway.

He's had his sabatical and is now itching to get back in the mix. Could we get him? Yes absolutely... Would he come? ... Yes... with certain caveats. He is the one who – more than anywhere he's been – could leave a long-term lasting legacy.

Time will tell but things will move fast within the next 6 months.

Eddie Dunn
339 Posted 08/04/2016 at 22:26:03
Andy (#333) – Don't worry mate, many of us have vented our spleen on here after a few too many, and then marvelled at the response the next morning.
Ian Smitham
340 Posted 08/04/2016 at 22:32:53
Eddie (#339), the voice of reason.

I am nothing to do with ToffeeWeb, but feel, confident enough to say I bet they encourage discussion, debate, even fervent expressions of views, but I hope most of all that despite all our differences, we are most interested in the well being of the club we love.

Tom Bowers
341 Posted 08/04/2016 at 22:43:48
Maybe a good finish to the season will appease most of the loyal fans in the short term but let's not kid ourselves, this manager is not the answer.

If by some fluke they win the Cup and maybe beat the RS it won't be by anything Martinez has changed.

Hopefully the board already have the same thoughts and have a contingency plan for the Summer. If they don't, then expect to lose some of the better players as they know they will have a better chance of success elsewhere.

Anthony Jones
342 Posted 08/04/2016 at 22:58:37
Don't criticise the boss in public, Leighton. Be smart. Have your agent engineer a move. Write about it all once you've retired.
Gavin Johnson
343 Posted 08/04/2016 at 23:02:26
There's a fan poll in the Daily Mirror asking whether Martinez is the right manager for Everton. It was at 100% NO when I voted a bit ago.
Brian Porter
344 Posted 08/04/2016 at 23:58:03
Just added my 'no' vote Gavin.
Brent Stephens
345 Posted 09/04/2016 at 00:06:00
Baines didn't criticize his manager in public.
Jason Broome
346 Posted 09/04/2016 at 04:22:57
Wow... What a thread. All of these awesome comments and not a sniff of Tony Marsh!

Here's a thought. What if Moshiri is the silent type that doesn't spend weeks boasting about buying a football club but actually... does so?

What if he sends a clear message to the manager that results have to change... and they haven't?

What if he identifies a manager but doesn't want to undermine the current one going into an FA cup semi final?

What if that manager wants to be "somewhere he is truly wanted."

What if said manager has "good offers on the table."

What if this manager "was almost certain that he will be back working this summer?"

What if said manager has started to look for a house in Cheshire?

What if the bookies know something and the odds of this so called manager joining Everton have reduced dramatically?

What if Mr Moshiri wants to hit the ground running with a statement of intent of Champions League football for his new darling?

What if 'Lukaku can leave' because we have a 'special one?'

Might be the mumblings of a manager looking to force Manchester United's hand, or maybe something else?

Just a thought.

Damian Wilde
347 Posted 09/04/2016 at 09:11:27
I have just rejoined TW (haven't posted for about seven-eight years), but have always read articles and threads!

I am a STH and I now do not enjoy going to the match (haven't for the past two seasons), which saddens me and this is due to the style of play RM brings. LB obvioulsy makes comment with regards to how players and fans feel. I think RM is a cognitively rigid and fearful man who has many psychological defences, one shown here. He won't change as Moyes didn't, but this feels more extreme than Moyes' era. I enjoyed the foitball more under Moyes.

I have to say (I rarely say this) - I think I hate Martinez, I can't stand him. His baffling line ups, consistently playing two-three DMs, never playing a left midfielder (strange, yeah?!) and awful use of substitutions.

I am desperate for him to be sacked and every time I get a Bleacher Report icon on my phone with Everton news, so hope it'll be 'Breaking News: Martinez sacked'

MARTINEZ OUT.

Jon Cox
348 Posted 08/04/2016 at 11:37:13
Kim (300)

I think you may have a really good point with ref. to Jekyll and Hyde .

I would add though, looking at his game management and tactical skills two other people spring to mind.

Laurel and Hardy!

Ray Smith
349 Posted 09/04/2016 at 13:19:30
Brent 345#

Good point Brent.

Apologies by the way.

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