Baines: Blues lacking vital chemistry

by | 04/04/2016  216 Comments  [Jump to last]
Leighton Baines has admitted that Everton's latest failings probably come down to over-reliance on individuals and a lack of team chemistry

As he has done so already this season, the England international spoke frankly with the local press on the Blues' struggles for form in the Premier League which has seen them lose three of their last four matches and see all hope of qualifying for Europe via the league evaporate.

It leaves the players and their increasingly beleaguered manager pinning their hopes for redemption on winning the FA Cup this season — although, for a growing number of supporters, that might not be enough.

Before they can think about lifting the trophy, Everton face either West Ham United or yesterday's conquerors Manchester United in the semi-final at Wembley on the 23rd and have four tough league fixtures in the space of 11 days before in which Baines admits all the players will need to earn their place.

“You are only really secure as individuals when you are winning games," the fullback told the Liverpool Echo, "but even then we will make changes from time to time with what is required tactically.”

“I don't think there is anyone expecting to have their name pencilled in for [the semi-final], but the motivation should be getting your name there.”

Motivation appeared to be sorely lacking in many of Everton's players in their dismal 1-0 defeat at Old Trafford, with only captain Phil Jagielka displaying the desire needed to try and drag Martinez's increasingly flat charges back into the match.

Like his skipper, who cut a dejected figure in his post-match interview yesterday, Baines was unable to put his finger on what exactly is going wrong in a team tipped at one stage for the top four this season but he highlighted a lack of chemistry as being a particular issue.

“I just don't feel as though the chemistry is quite there with the team on the pitch at the moment, and it hasn't been for a while," Baines explained. “We are maybe leaning too heavily on individuals to come up with something.

“We're in games, we were in the game on Sunday and had a couple of chances, but we're not performing as a team to the level we know we can or we should be.

“Results have an impact on that because chemistry and confidence go hand in hand if you start winning games. Look at the teams who are having success this year and you'd say they have chemistry.

“If I had to say one thing, I just don't know if it's there with us at the moment, for whatever reason. We try and put it right but we've not been able to. That's the third loss on the bounce in the league which is disappointing to us all.

“We want to win every time we go out to play and we'd like to go into that cup game with a few wins behind us. That's our season in some respects now. It certainly is from the fans' point of view and we've let them down a lot [so] to go on and have success in the Cup now [is] our only way of making it up to them.

"You had the travelling fans there again on Sunday and they are amazing. They follow us wherever we go and, generally, they have seen us win a few games this season but unfortunately we weren't able to give them the result or performance we wanted to."  


Reader Comments (216)

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Mark Riding
1 Posted 04/04/2016 at 17:45:49
Before any backlash is said against Baines here, I'd just like to thank him for his honesty.

He will get dropped next game like, but well said mate.
Patrick Murphy
2 Posted 04/04/2016 at 17:50:36
Mark (#1),

There is no reason for a backlash towards Leighton, not from the supporters at any rate, he hasn't said anything that isn't true or patently obvious to most supporters.

Whether he succumbs to a recurrence of his injury and loses his place in the team is open to debate.

Jamie Barlow
3 Posted 04/04/2016 at 17:54:57
He hasn't put any blame on Martinez by name. He's used the word "we" all through the interview. A collective balls up. No reason he should be dropped.
Paul Kennedy
4 Posted 04/04/2016 at 17:55:39
Well said. He obviously feels what we can see: too many players using Everton as a springboard. Leighton never jumped ship and went to Man Utd when Moyes was trying to get him, and it's obvious he knows what he is talking about.

The understanding he had with Pienaar was one of our highlights over previous seasons.
Mark Riding
5 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:00:09
Well Eto'o was outed for saying his piece. I would confidently say one of the best strikers of his generation. Maybe he spotted something last season that we all missed... and we dismissed as him being a troublemaker?? Just saying.
John Keating
6 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:01:09
Mark

I doubt there will be much – if any – backlash against Baines.

It's quite refreshing to hear someone at the Club, anyone at the Club, admit there's something we all know, and that is there is something far wrong.

The only way we will see a difference in the way the team play is if the senior pros change things on the pitch, if you remember we saw it last season when they reacted once the crowd got going.

It is impossible for Martinez to change and I am quite sure the senior players know the whole thing is going to rat shit and as well as the manager they will be in the firing line from supporters.

I cannot believe in this day and age players cannot affect the playing style if they see it's going to shit.

Good on Baines. I just wish more players would speak up and am more disappointed it didn't happen at the beginning of this clowns second season when everyone and his dog could see we were in big trouble with Martinez's regime

Neil Gribbin
7 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:08:09
Well said, Bainsey. It needed saying.
Andy Meighan
8 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:12:16
You know the likes of Baines and Jagielka do care about the team with, possibly, a couple of others. The rest of them aren't interested if you ask me but what stuck out for me in that piece is Baines saying I don't think anyone is expecting to have their name pencilled in for the semi final.

So have we thrown all our eggs in one basket and fuck the league results because we're safe anyway? Well that's a dangerous game to play. We've got tough games before the semi which, by the way, is 3 weeks away, yet our players are talking about it now. It seems the players are only looking to the cup game and nothing else if the last 2 performances are anything to go by. And there's a little matter of a derby at our bogey ground and, God, am I dreading that.

I personally think we haven't a prayer in the semi no matter who we get. United have beat us twice without breaking sweat and West Ham have taken 4 pts of us and when was the last time we said that? I'm personally not holding much hope against either and if we were to get through I could see Palace or Watford bullying us to defeat in the final.

This season, like last, has been another disaster and that's down to one stubborn man. Unfortunately we've got him for the long run.
Minik Hansen
9 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:16:51
What I saw of yesterday was lack of movement and making space, lack of wanting the ball and moving it on fast. Instead the pressure was put on players when they had the ball and closed down quick.

Easy to say, but maybe hard to put it right on the park yesterday.. Whatever is going on, I wish they put the transfer thoughts and thoughts about the season away and play together as a real team from now on.

Terence Tyler
10 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:19:17
Let's not forget: Distin, Pienaar and Mirallas have all suffered periods of leave of absence as well.
Finn Taylor
11 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:20:11
Eto'o was ousted because he wasn't too complimentary about his team mates... to which, one player grabbed him by the throat in the changing rooms.
Kelvin Thomas
12 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:20:24
You can tell something is in the air folks. The way the media have grasped Baines's comments and ran with them in the past hour or so!

Yes, performances have been poor. Its a pity so many of his senior / best players made so many crucial errors earlier in the season which cost us loads of points when the morale was quite high.

Morale / chemistry has since fallen and Martinez is having to deal with the brunt of recent poor results.

Howard, Coleman, Jagielka, Stones, Funes Mori, Baines, Barry, McCarthy, Barkley, Lukaku have all been guilty of massive errors or extremely poor performances, every single one of them!
Minik Hansen
13 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:28:18
And supporters have been poor also, which is obvious and understandable. I guess they got the right to go at the team and help keep the spirit low.
John Keating
14 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:29:30
Kelvin, crucial errors did not start earlier in the season – they started at the end of his first season!!! They were compounded throughout last season and have continued into this season.

Your list of those responsible for errors is correct, however, the biggest culprit is not on your list. In fact, the way your post is worded it implies the poor manager is having to deal with the players mistakes.

Maybe it is just the way you have worded your post, Kelvin, The players have made mistakes at various times but Martinez has continually made mistakes and more importantly, not rectified them.

Rob Halligan
15 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:30:05
Well said, Bainesy. What he's basically saying is that Martinez hasn't got a clue what he's doing.
Bill Gall
16 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:35:13
Well that's Baines on the bench for speaking the truth. That's if he even makes the bench.
Joe Clitherow
17 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:36:33
For chemistry read teamwork and Martinez and his muppets Jones and Lawrence – none of whom have done anything either as players or management save the done-to-death FA Cup, which is easily cancelled out by relegating the same team in the same year – have no idea how to instil or to coach as a team.

The clear evidence for me is the total focus on the possession of the ball. Only a fraction of a player's time on the pitch involves the ball. There is no shape or off the ball movement with any coordination. No wonder the players look totally lost on the pitch.

Good teams consist of players who are drilled in training into knowing exactly where they need to be at any given time. You can see the hesitation in our players who have to think things through all the time and waste split seconds rather than being tightly drilled as a unit.

Completely basic things that have been neglected totally understand these incompetent clowns, totally out of their depth.

Colin Glassar
18 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:39:48
Good on yer, Bainsey lad. Chemistry = drills or lack of? Despite being a huge admirer of Bainsey and the other lads I'd start a wholesale dropping of our regular players and giving the youngsters and stiffs a go for a few games. Not necessarily as a punishment but just to try something different and freshen up things as we are going nowhere fast.

Against Watford why not try:

Howard
Holgate
Stones
Funes Mori
Galloway
Deulofeu
Besic
Gibson
Oviedo
Niasse
Mirallas

Subs: Robles, Jagielka, McCarthy, Pienaar, Baines, Lukaku, Kone

What have we got to lose? Not much, IMO.

Kelvin Thomas
19 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:40:33
I get your point, John.

I personally feel that the players on the whole have also been poor, just as poor as the manager's decisions at times.

The first third of the season was one error after the other, from our top top players! Are they that good, John?

It's been a car crash of a season. Then again, we could still win the FA Cup!

John Keating
22 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:50:23
The players are good, Kelvin. They are all Premier League experienced players who are just coached, trained and set up to play outdated tactics badly.

Look at Leicester this season. More or less the same players who flirted with relegation last season. They have a good coach that knows their limitations and plays to their strengths. They are well organised right through the team and give 100% every game.

The same can be said of Spurs and West Ham. In fact, considering the players we have probably only Man City are underachieving more than us.

Winning the Cup should not give Martinez additional time at our Club. The guy is a loser and taking us down to his level. Unless players like Baines speak up, they will be classed as losers too. I can't believe good solid professionals want to be associated with shit football week after week and getting reputations for failures.

Minik Hansen
23 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:54:05
The team miss so much Barry in midfield. Midfield = crucial.
Raymond Fox
24 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:56:03
Can we get things in perspective? We were playing the 5th placed team on their own ground. That's another game where we get beat when we deserved at least a draw. Even Van Gaal said they were lucky; I'm not pretending we were good or it was a great game, no it wasn't.

That BBC pisses me right off, we get no credit off them whatsoever as a club. Then we have Kilbane saying we made no chances, again we didn't make many, but Jags smacked the crossbar and had another decent chance from close range, Rom had two half-chances, does the presenter contradict Kilbane, no! How many chances did Man Utd have?

I'll tell you what I think: the players want to get their fingers out. Barkley's useless when the opposition have the ball, he wants dropping for a certainty. Coleman was caught daydreaming again, pathetic defending not for the first time, drop him too. Baines is not a lot better in defence.

We are a team of individuals, not a team; it's about time most of them broke sweat and proved they are a good team together. It's time to drop 3 or 4 of them.

Joe O'Brien
26 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:59:52
Haha, Colin, you want Howard back between the sticks! No need to go that drastic.

Well done, Baines, for speaking up. I still think we'll win the cup. Seemed to play a lot different than the league.

Kelvin, what do you mean that there's something in the air? I really don't think they'll be any change in management before the end of the season.

Ian McDowell
27 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:01:59
Raymond @ 24. I fully agree. The performances of our full backs and Barkley's unwillingness to actually close someone down, put in a tackle, have any sort of awareness of what is going on around him, make a sprint, are hugely contributing to our problems.

I didn't see the game yesterday but listened on 5Live. Alan Green was shocked that Barkley lost a sprint to Juan Mata. I was not! As for Baines and Coleman, how about actually stopping a cross once in a blue moon? You never know... it might actually prevent a goal.
James Carroll
28 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:07:09
I think we got a premonition of what was to come during the very first (and mostly good!) Martinez season. The re-scheduled Palace game at Goodison, on Wednesday April 16th 2014 was typical of THIS season. A 3-2 home loss, and with that, no realistic chance of a top four finish...

That Palace game could easily have been one of this season's home nightmares – so similar, and a sign of things to come.

That was almost exactly 2 years ago. Things have not changed – and, if we're honest, we are even worse now. That was the beginning of the end. It's been 2 years of much of the same ever since.

Terence Tyler
29 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:07:54
Take that, Roberto. A Kirkby kiss, from Kirkby lad, Bainsey.
John Cartwright
30 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:09:45
I can't believe it. Colin wants to go back to Howard and Gibson. Is Brett Angell still playing?
Patrick Murphy
31 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:14:30
Raymond (#24),

As usual with judging the game on its own merits, it could be argued that Everton did indeed deserve a point but that would be down more to how our opponents performed rather than how Everton functioned. Of course we all wanted Everton to win the game and come home with the three points and it's always disappointing when that doesn't happen.

However, this was the game which due to Roberto's proclamations following the Arsenal defeat which was to see the players fighting for their first-team places. In the first half, there was a slight improvement on the Arsenal performance, but most of what the team did caused Man Utd no real concerns and they contained Everton as much as Everton contained them.

The second half also started not too badly, but once Man Utd took the lead, Everton fell apart. Yes, they tried, but there was no shape, no real desire to get behind the home defence and only a five-minute flurry gave us as fans any hope that we would take something out of the game.

I've seen poorer Everton teams giving Man Utd a game on their own midden only to succumb late on and lose or draw, but yesterday we were never in charge of the game, we had plenty of possession but looked bereft of ideas for most of the match and at no time during the game did I think we would or could win.

I also agree that one or two players should be dropped, and that includes the likes of Barkley who can be a good player but is going through a rough patch. Having said that, how many 22-year-old players are charged with being the fulcrum of their teams in the Premier League? It's unfair to ask him to play that role and it's started to affect his confidence.

Personally I would have drafted in one of the young boys and dropped Lukaku following his billy big bollocks remarks during the week, but that would have been a difficult decision for any manager to make, never mind one who is under pressure.

Man Utd may well be 5th in the Premier League, but they are not a great deal better than Everton, apart from the fact that they look organised and willing to run about and probably had more inexperienced players on show than did Everton, which puts into perspective the result from Everton's point of view.

Dean Peamum
32 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:15:16
I won't pretend that I fully understand what Baines is saying as I was rubbish at chemistry at school. But I did learn enough to know that Martinez is a Chlorine, Oxygen, Tungsten and Nitrogen.
Dan Davies
33 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:18:52
No chemistry, aye that's a big shock then! As for being trained and drilled, it wouldn't surprise me if training was just a kick about, a bit of moping around and more practising of sideways passing.

The players don't look happy, the manager is lost in his own phenomenal world, the fans are far from happy. This is Bad. Roll on next season.

Sort it out Everton please!

Barry Jones
34 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:19:01
"I just don't feel as though the chemistry is quite there with the team on the pitch at the moment, and it hasn't been for a while. We are maybe leaning too heavily on individuals to come up with something."

Sounds innocuous but it is quite a damning statement really. Baines is such an honest lad, on and off the pitch and honesty is much needed at the moment. Martinez would rather convince himself of his own spurious analysis. I hope there is no recrimination.

Barry Jones
35 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:24:42
Dean, I would have thought Copper, Uranium, Nickel and Tungsten worked better.
Ray Said
36 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:32:33
Isn't that what you tell the girlfriend or boyfriend your about to dump?

"I really like you, especially the brown shoes and the way you cross your arms and look meaningfully into the distance, but the chemistry just isn't there. I have really tried but I can't understand a word you say, it's meaningless gobbledygook.

"Like last night when you took me for the meal. Now I thought it was rubbish but you kept saying it was phenomenal and I didn't understand the combinations and the technical aspects and how it was made by a very young chef on the verge of creating something 'very, very special'. It was fish, chips and peas for fucks sake!

"Anyway, I have talked it over with my friends and we will have to call it a day so goodbye, I know you will find someone new they just wont be as good as me."

Andy Mack
37 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:32:52
Well said, why on earth Baines and Pienaar aren't interchanging play down that side of the pitch any longer is a modern mystery, especially with Pienaar claiming he is fit. It was one of our most devastating weapons and a joy to watch. But Bobby knows best. Sigh.
Ian Robert
38 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:34:55
Did I read that right? Colin suggesting we drop Jags? FFS!
Minik Hansen
39 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:36:02
Andy, let's just hope we see that Leighton Baines - Steven Pienaar combination really soon! COYB.
Stewart Lowe
40 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:37:49
For me, this only adds fuel to the fire. Don't forget that these players have been sold a dream by the same Martinez that sold us the dream when he arrived.

I was in awe of Martinez in press conferences as they always last 15-20 minutes compared to the give nothing away, look fed up, look cheesed off, why are you asking me that question 2-3 minutes we got from David Moyes. So Martinez has always been a politician talker.

But there is no doubt in my mind that the players will come on websites like ToffeeWeb and read day after day what all the fans think of Everton and Martinez, as I know I would, and I can imagine the things that Baines has said mirrors very much what we have all been saying for a long long time.

Giving Martinez more time beyond the FA Cup would be madness and although he might sign a lot of decent players with Moshiri's millions, what would be the point?

The laughable thing here is, if our front three were Messi, Suarez & Aguero and our midfielders were Bale, Iniesta & Ronaldo, we would still lose games 11-12 or 20-21, and it will be the tea lady's fault. He simply doesn't like defenders.

Raymond Fox
41 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:41:43
Patrick 31, we were dire against Arsenal, although they were brilliant on the day and ran rings around us, we looked individually out classed.

Barkley is the biggest disappointment to me, he just doesn't put enough effort into games when it comes to defending. I thought he was poor in England's last game and again in this match, he's not going to get picked for the Euros unless he bucks his ideas up.

We keep hearing we are a good team, they want to start proving it.

Anthony Flack
42 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:42:28
I hope this was cleared by the club first, or else I worry it will be interpreted as an accurate critique of Martinez.

It is up to any leader to work out how to make a team tick and keep it ticking, it is not about simply having the best individuals, whilst it helps it takes a lot more.

He may deserve some credit for assembling some talent, but he does not understand why things work and why they go wrong. Therefore he has not got a flaming clue what to do.. It is all out of his control only because he has not a clue what to do...

I see this in projects and in companies I work for again and again. One or two successes followed by abject failure and decline, all because they never really understood what they did right originally.

I would get rid of him ASAP.

Joe McMahon
43 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:42:36
I'll get slated but IMO Leighton is past his best, although his best was good.

Although I'm still annoyed that he let Raul Meireles drive past him at Anfield, we should have won that derby, Beckfords goal was sublime.

Stewart Lowe
44 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:45:25
Don't forget Baines and Coleman in the last two years of the Moyes era were the best wing backs in the league and we were fighting off Man Utd for Baines and Chelsea for Coleman.

Then Martinez came in and clipped their wings in favour of natural wingers, and they have never been the same since. Why change something that wasn't broken and potentially our biggest assets at the time?

Kevin O'Regan
45 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:49:18
Very interesting comments indeed – he gets very close to pointing the finger in a very diplomatic way – but it's very obvious from the comments that there is mainly one person who is to blame for players of such talent who are not performing. Diplomatic, loyal, but also honest and damming.
Will Firstbrook
46 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:50:19
While he may not be the vocal leader on the pitch (or press) that many crave at the moment, I've always admired the lad's professionalism and diplomacy even in the face of adversity. Can't be easy for a player of his pedigree and experience to discuss the current situation without coming across like some self-centered Chelsea malcontent.

Without trying to read too much into his comments, it is interesting that he identifies a lack of chemistry as a probable cause for the current malaise. Considering this is a fairly tightknit group many of whom have played together for several years, you wouldn't think player chemistry to be at the top of the list of problems. However, it is abundantly clear week in and out that the players are not on the same page (or even reading from the same book in some cases).

I can't imagine it's pleasant in that looker room these days and I don't expect it will improve anytime soon.

Tom Magill
47 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:50:47
Very refreshing to hear the honest assessment from Bainsey, he's a true blue and his opinion counts. Maybe Roberto should get his head out of his arse and listen to some sense.
Denis Richardson
48 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:52:21
Well said Bainsey and appreciate you have to be diplomatic and can't lay the blame where it truly belongs.

For all of our 'best squad in a generation' talk, I do have to disagree with the line 'I don't think there is anyone expecting to have their name pencilled in for [the semi-final]'

Barring injury/suspension at least 6-7 names are guaranteed to be in the starting XI. Likes of Lukaku, Coleman, Barry, McCarthy, Barkley, Jags will 100% be in. Probably also Baines, Lennon and Stones (if he doesn't make stupid mistakes before). Martinez may decide to give Howard a send off but would be hugely unfair to Robles so would think Robles also starts.

Not exactly that many players really having to be worried about making the final then – way I see it only one attacking midfield spot is really open. So much for the lauded competition for places...

Jamie Crowley
49 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:55:29
Baines has hit on something. Chemistry equates to players just going through the motions.

I'd completely base the next line-up on which players have actually shown effort, grit, and determination lately. If they've not or suffered lapses of concentration, bench them and send a message. Put the players / kids out who will play at 100%, 100% of the time.

Sunday's game can't be replicated and it's imperative a message is sent as such.

Robles;
Stones, Jagielka, Funes Mori, Galloway;
Besic, Barry;
Lennon, Cleverley, Deulofeu;
Henen. (yup...)

Bench due to shite effort / head in ass recently:
Lukaku, McCarthy (pains me to write that one...), Seamus, Baines, Barkley, Howard, pick another player...

Niasse isn't 100% so why he's making the bench is a mystery, plus he's looked total shite so give Henen a shot – nothing to lose. Kone is just a total waste of space.

Discounting Kone and Niasse shows how we are really screwed if Lukaku leaves this summer. That's one position we'd better break the bank on if Rom is out the door. He still should be benched in my opinion as he needs a rocket fired up his ass to re-motivate and re-focus him.

There's a rot in the team. It needs to be carved out.

Colin Gee
50 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:56:36
The beginning of the end then, but for who?

Every player that's spoken out against Martinez has been dropped, sold or just disappeared from the squad. If Baines is dropped on Saturday then we'll know what really going on.

When your senior players like Leighton Baines start speaking out, then you are in deep shit, plus watch Jagielka's interview after the match – he looks like a broken man.

One thing is going to happen this summer, either Martinez goes or half the team will be off. If Martinez stays, then we are the next Aston Villa.

Don Alexander
51 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:58:35
Leighton Baines is a consummate professional footballer. He's earned everything he's ever got by maximising his ability through sheer hard work, as has Jags. They're honest and Evertonians and it must be aggravating beyond belief to have had to comply with the shite spouted by Martinez season after worsening season, seeing it cost them their credibility as professionals and seeing what it's relentlessly done to the status of their club.

I applaud Baines, Jags and any other player who NOW goes public in the same way. Together, repeat, together, these sort of players can soon free the club we all love from the ineptitude that is in our midst in the shape of Martinez and his "team" of "coaches".

Mr Moshiri, please get a grip NOW.

Stewart Lowe
52 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:58:41
Is it not a measure of where we are at, that 5 of the 9 games we have won have come from Aston Villa (twice) Newcastle (twice) and Sunderland?
Matt Williams
53 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:59:14
I don't buy into this idea that Martinez has assembled a great squad.

Lukaku aside, and possibly Funes Mori and Lennon every one else he's bought stinks the gaffe out. Especially McCarthy who in my opinion is utter shit on a par with Gareth Farrelly, Claus Thomsen and Alex Nyarko. The rest of them are mediocre at best. Deulofeu has potential but needs to get fit.

Ian McDowell
54 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:00:25
Just been listening to Collymore on talkSport talking about Watford. He said after Watford drew 3 and lost 2 games early, on a few of the senior pros, including captain Troy Deeney, went to see the manager Sanchez Flores and said, "Boss, can we get back to what we were doing last season – hard work, direct football, pressing, hassling the opposition?"

The manager said, "Yes I'll take your points onboard and adjust accordingly" – and Watford's results made an up turn.

Come on, Roberto, please change or you will be gone.

Christy Ring
55 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:00:38
The reason we have no chemistry is because Martinez picks the team arse ways.

Against Man Utd yesterday, Lennon who has been impressive on the right wing, was supporting Lukaku. We had no-one on the left-wing. Barkley who is our best attacking midfielder, was playing in a deep defensive role. The players were totally lost.

Michael Evans
56 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:09:05
There's certainly chemistry in this team...

Anyone remember the chemical formula for shit from school days in the lab?

Darren Hind
57 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:19:34
Jamie @49

Had to read your post twice, but your point is spot on.

Joe Foster
58 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:19:34
If you read between the lines, Baines is saying "Martinez out"!
Paul Birmingham
59 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:20:29
Well said, Bainsey. Will this lead to some honest and effective team building discussions, and will Baines end up being ostracised? It says it all that Bainsey, in a few simple words, has summed up and confirmed what so many Evertonians also feel?

Hopefully this is a start of some basic square bashing and team building this squad needs, but who bets that El Bob will conjure up further dilutions?
Stewart Lowe
60 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:25:46
If I were a defender in a team whose results were based on the goals scored rather than the clean sheets the team kept, I would be on my way in a hurry. Defenders strive to keep as many clean sheets as the strikers do scoring goals, so why should Baines and Jagielka be any different.

If Martinez remains at Everton, what defender would look back on their personal stats from the past and think "Yes, we finished 4th but the defence I was part of let in 73 goals." Not many I would think.

Andy Crooks
61 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:31:15
Fair play to you, Raymond Fox, you are just about the last man standing. I don't know what it will take for you to want Martinez gone but I see you as the man who will decide. When you eventually call time on him, then, it really will be over.

Frankly, any one reading your posts having only witnessed one off games would, quite rightly, see you as being totally reasonable. I just think there is something fundamentally wrong when it is always bad luck, when the fraudster who coaches our team is never, ever wrong.

If Martinez was sacked tomorrow I believe we would win the cup. I think there would be a new spirit and an exciting end to the season. Who could not look at that arms folded, curled up, bewildered, specimen on the touch line and not wish for his humiliation to end. Sacking him would be an act of kindness.

Tony Twist
62 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:32:03
Don't want Martinez changing anything, don't want him squirming out of this. I want him gone, the sooner, the better. If that means Sheedy or Unsworth taking the reigns to the end of the season, so be it.

Then bring in a class manager that might persuade players to stay. If we win the FA Cup I don't want Martinez getting the credit.

Tony Abrahams
63 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:49:44
Martinez, was always going on about how he had to be careful who he signed, because he didn't want anyone who might destroy the perfect harmony in the changing room.

When you have got loads of fans posting that they couldn't even get angry, watching Everton, yesterday, then change just needs to happen quickly.

I wasn't that bothered myself yesterday, if I'm being honest, but it fills me with pain to see Martinez, still in charge of Everton, because we are going backwards, and the man just refuses to acknowledge it.

Darren Hind
64 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:51:22
If we win the cup, I wouldn't give a fuck who got the credit.

We need that cup.

Patrick Murphy
65 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:57:20
Totally agree, Darren, we've waited long enough and we don't even have to win two games – two draws and two penalty-shoot out wins and we have a long-awaited trophy.
Armando Canaj
66 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:05:23
Love this guy, always will. Have met him a few times me and had a good chat.

Him, Pienaar and Ossy. Proper footy players. True blues. They owe us nothing. They are pure class...

Hope all three will be retained as coaches and manage efc.

Chris Leyland
67 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:07:58
Just looking at the ToffeeWeb poll on Martinez' future. Incredibly, 739 people think that be should be given more time regardless of what happens in the cup. That means there are actually 739 people on ToffeeWeb who somehow can see some sort of bright future with Roberto at the helm regardless of what they have witnessed over the past two seasons.

Can someone explain to me who these 739 people are and what it is they can see that I seem to be missing? Or is it that Roberto has multiple ToffeeWeb accounts (like he has TVs in his lounge at home) enabling him to vote numerous times?

Ian Burns
68 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:14:26
Don Alexander - 51 - says it all - Let's hope Mr Moshiri really does take note!
Chris Scully
69 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:21:09
I have a dream...

Everton experience a meteoric climb up the table with win after win after win. During this rocket-like ascendency we witness the catastrophic collapse of Spurs, Arsenal, Man City, Man Utd, Hammers and, just for fun, the RS.

8 x 3 points + 38 = 62, top four! Tada!!!

Has anyone seen my meds?

Dennis Ng
70 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:24:47
While some may say this is too much faith put in Moshiri, I was expecting us to lose all the remaining games (the shambles we are at the moment, do we expect the team to have enough fight against anyone?).

We might fall into bottom 5 sooner rather than later if we lose to both Watford and Palace (who is also in a shittier situation than us and might be more desperate to turn things around). How long more can he wear BK's rose-tinted glasses and not have buyer's remorse when he reads the news?
Jamie Crowley
71 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:54:48
I agree 100% with Darren @64.

I don't give two fiddler's farts what's going on at present within the Club. If these players and this manager can't pull it together for only two fucking games and finally win some silverware then they should all do one.

There's way, way too many diehard fans out there who have been starved for a trophy. Honestly, folks like myself who've come on board for the last few years don't matter. It's the fans who've been for SO long without success that deserve it! The men (and women) who post on TW with 20, 30, 40 years of being a Blue who have stuck by, loyal through thick and thin.

With the current climate I don't like our chances. But if somehow we can lift the FA Cup I'm toasting Harold Matthews (RIP) and all the Blues 60 years old and up who just fucking deserve it.

Per Mr. Hind - we need that Cup. We really do.

Barry Thompson
72 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:54:58
Shit Sunday, shit Monday (wife crashes her car, RS workmates laughing their cocks off all day); however, thanks to Ray Said@36 – It was fish, chips and peas for fucks sake!

I have just laughed for the first time today. Cheers.

Kevin Tully
73 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:55:41
Clearly the end for Martinez, regardless of any Cup win. Baines is spot on, too many players playing for themselves – I include Lukaku & Mirallas in that selfish clique that seems to have evolved. Whilst Lukaku has shown his worth, you get the feeling any extra effort is to get his dream move, rather than playing for the shirt.

The dressing room is in disarray, no way back for any manager once senior pro's start indirectly criticising team ethos. The only thing that matters now is the Cup, show him the door if it gives us a better chance of bringing home some silverware.

Nick Page
74 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:55:49
Chris Leyland, well said, Sir. I'd like one of those 739 to come on here and defend the fraud if they can. Maybe Bill, who I emailed today (probably fucking deleted) has been busy creating false accounts.

It's a fucking shambles... or, as some gobby yank I used to sit next to at work would say, a total cluster-fuck.

Andy Crooks
75 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:03:16
Darren, (#64), do you not think our chances of winning the cup would improve dramatically with a caretaker like Sheedy in place? It would be a massive lift to the club.
Bob Skelton
76 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:10:46
I bet Baines won't be playing next game. Bullshit Bob is quite vindictive.
Ian Riley
77 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:15:55
At one point does a board member realise to many of our senior players are going public with there thoughts. Sadly Mr Kenwright is a loyal man to whom he appoints. Yes, the players can't dictate the manager's future, but can identify failings. Our results and performances must be taken into account by the board.

Players going public could be seen as a cry for help.

Baines is not just a player but an Everton fan. Does anyone know how season ticket sales are going? Are fans waiting to see what happens? I don't think the fans thoughts will ever be taken into account at board room level. However if the players and fans are unhappy then both can't be wrong.

Oliver Molloy
78 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:20:11
Chemistry! So that's why Baines can't stop a cross or get tight to his man, the chemistry isn't right. It's a team game, Leighton.

Had Baines did his job on Sunday afternoon, Man Utd would not have scored...

Everything's going wrong at the club, and slowly everyone is / are now looking after Number One – watch and see!

Jim Jennings
79 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:27:18
Bob (#76),

Is "Bullshit Bob" a reference to yourself? Because your post does come across as quite vindictive.

Shaun Traynor
80 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:30:35
So what was the point of jetting off to Dubai. Thought that was to bring the group closer together? 3 weeks later we are being told this?

MARTINEZ OUT!

Oliver Molloy
81 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:32:01
Jamie Crowley,

Nice nod to Harold Matthews – fair play...

It's amazing what this manager has done to people on here.
Everybody I know thinks he's completely deluded and slowly the football world is even turning against him.

I don't agree with us even being in with a chance of winning the cup – been here before a few times.

Damian Nolan
83 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:44:14
The very strong news from inside was that Martinez bawled out Baines for turning his back on the shot at Man City (2nd leg) leading to the deflected shot past Robles.

Baines has a habit of performing some kind of weird curtsy to stop shots and crosses and Martinez pointed this out. He dropped him for a fair while after that.

Baines has spoken out for sure as his thoughts on Martinez are clear and he has nothing to lose. Chances of Baines and Martinez being there next season? Slim.

Robert Duncombe
85 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:45:21
I was listening to 5 Live tonight. They were discussing Everton's poor form. Chris Sutton was getting rather animated every time he spoke about Roberto. He thinks he talks "nonsense" and the game he is watching isn't the game that we are seeing. T

he other bloke reckons that a cup win would give Roberto some breathing space. I wonder if Niasse will get a few tricky fans tomorrow at Everton Two?

Peter Bell
86 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:08:16
Damien @83

That story about Baines at Man City is more than "very strong news from inside" trust me.

James Flynn
87 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:11:17
So, three years into managing Baines, who's always done that twist and turn move on crosses, Roberto admonishes him for doing it yet again?

Hate to think that argument occurred.

Robert Duncombe
88 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:12:39
Looks like Baines will be playing at Fulham next season then.
Dave Williams
89 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:14:22
Very worried now.

We should have enough points to avoid a relegation battle but seem to be in free fall and it is a matter of huge concern that Baines is saying there is no team spirit. This reflects what many have thought for a while now and certainly the last two games have been appalling with no great effort made by most of the players.

Baines himself is hardly blameless – he seems to have lost even his ability to put in a decent cross and it looks to me like he and Peanuts made each other and neither is half the player on his own.

However this is about the entire squad not any one player and a close look at our league position, home record and standard of performance especially since Christmas must surely tell everyone that things have to change and quickly. A cup win cannot disguise an inability to pick the right team and motivate it for routine league games.

The managers tactics are bizarre and the fitness levels are a concern:

Why is Geri knackered after an hour?
Why is Niasse not yet even two-thirds fit?
Why are we out-manned in midfield so often?
Why does no-one take the initiative and sort teammates out on the pitch?
Why does no-one stamp their authority on a game?
Why is their such a lack of involvement during the game from the management team (look at how involved Klopp gets)?
Why do we not get support to Lukaku?
Why do we not get attacking subs on earlier than 5 mins from time?
Why do we not try all subs when we are losing and playing badly?
Why do we spend ?13.5m on a striker and not play him as a striker so he has a chance to show why we bought him... so many questions and, like him as I do, I cannot follow what Roberto is trying to do.

Someone posted a while ago that he has no track record at all when you look at whether he can win consistently in the top division and having resisted the idea for a long time that he will not find the secret I am now of the view that he will have to go, and quickly.

Villa have shown how quickly the rot can set in; okay, they had to sell their better players but once the rot starts it can be difficult to stop it and there are plenty of signs now that the rot is setting in. Two seasons and a point off 15th place is surely an indication that he isn't getting anywhere and we must ignore the cup. History is littered with teams getting to Wembley and getting relegated, Wigan of course a prime example.

No one likes to see a man given the sack – we wouldn't like it if it happened to us and Roberto seems a decent bloke but we support our club not the bloke who picks the team. Our club is not performing on the pitch, some of our players don't look fit, Baines intimates there is no team spirit, the defence is awful as a unit and the midfield has no guts and falls apart without the admirable 35-year-old Gareth Barry.

Something decisive surely has to be done as Moshiri cannot build the club from the championship.

Raymond Fox
90 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:19:36
Andy 61, There's two ways of looking at what Baines says, if you don't rate Martinez you can see it as criticism his way, but on the other hand, Lukaku more or less said he wants to leave, Stones did ask to leave, Coleman and Baines have been subject to interest from top clubs not that long ago.

Martinez has stood firm and said nobodies leaving, that can't help team spirit, plus the teams getting criticised from left right and centre because we can't seem to put a run together especially at home.

Baines has been poor for a while so I don't think he's blame free, defence was never his strong point and even his corners have been crap. It's not asking a lot for an International to hit a corner into the goalmouth at a decent height occasionally, my wife could have shaped better.

I've already criticised Barkley's non-existent defensive qualities, plus when the ball is crossed in the air into our box our defensive players have shaped most of the time like a bunch of girls.

Who apart from Lukaku and Lennon have consistently individually played well this season and indeed last season.

Funes Mori has been decent most of the time, McCarthy and Barry can't be faulted for effort but have no flair, Stones is good most of the time going forward but is fallible in defence.

Howard has given plenty of points away also.

Now you can pin all the blame on Martinez, but the players are the ones who's taking to the field and are being paid ridiculous amounts to perform well consistently.

They haven't been able to do that for whatever reason, none of us know what has/is being said behind the scenes by Martinez or what the players say between themselves, if we did we would have a much better idea who to point the finger at.

As it is, I wouldn't expect all concerned with our club to be happy campers until we start getting results.

Patrick Murphy
91 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:27:07
Ray (#90) Of course the players share the responsibility of the abject performances but they don't choose themselves, Roberto has done very little to shake things up during these bleak periods and has indeed mostly gone overboard on how good these individuals are.

Whether fairly or not, he is the man in charge, he chooses the tactics and he sends the best players available to him to do a job for him, they are not doing that job and if they are then God help us.

Oliver Molloy
92 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:29:37
Dave @ 89,

I agree it is worrying.....

If the club persist with Martinez, we will be Newcastle, Sunderland or Villa next season – I firmly believe that.

Don Alexander
93 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:34:16
As mentioned above, the BBC Football site is now carrying a clip titled 'Roberto Martinez talks a pile of nonsense'. In it Chris Sutton tells it like it is, whilst a Times journo, Rory Smith, pleads the case for the defence saying an FA Cup win will sate Everton fans, and how he admires the way Martinez wants to play.

Media personalities aside, the point is that there is now the beginnings of a significant exposure in the media of the horrible truth created by Martinez. I've contacted Rory Smith on Facebook to politely put him right. I suggest others do the same.

The many of us who want rid of the prat asap may just be on a roll.

Jim Jennings
94 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:39:14
Peter / Damien

If that "very strong news" (translation: unsubstantiated rumour) is true then good on him and I hope he applies the same consistency to Stones, Coleman et all who often do the same.

Kristian Boyce
95 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:51:39
I was listening to Talksport tonight and as usual the topic was about Leicester again. One of the key points Collymore was making about them was the teamwork between the group. He said that it was evident in all the teams doing well; Including Spurs and West Ham that their wasn't individualism but collective effort. Then they talked about the top teams who are struggling, Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City. That they are a group of individuals not a team. We fall into that bracket as well now. Whilst we weren't the most attractive under Moyes, we were a team and that was something he drilled into them.

Martinez has broken that team spirit and it shows. In his first season it was still there and games like the Man Utd win at Old Trafford were a clear example of it. When he doesn't have a 'team' it's going to be easier for him to lose the dressing room. Which there looks like signs of that happening already.

John Raftery
96 Posted 04/04/2016 at 00:03:48
Oviedo is arguably now a better option at left back than Leighton Baines who has been injury prone and living on his past reputation for the last two years. That said, Baines was a great player for us in a team which had real chemistry. He is fully entitled to make these comments and has hit a few nails on the head. Aside from the manager's role there is a responsibility on the players themselves to get their act together.

They can start to rescue their own reputations with a few decent performances against teams below us in the league starting with Watford on Saturday and then win the all important semi final. If they don't they will merit no more than a footnote in our club's history.
Christine Foster
97 Posted 05/04/2016 at 00:21:29
So we have around 16 players who individually are just about all internationals, mostly current, who have in the main, played together for a number of years. Except they don't gel, cannot get the system right, cannot do what they are being asked to do and they are unhappy. Loyal but unhappy. Try as they may, they can't fix it, they can't put right the very thing that defines success. A Team. Not 16 brilliant players but a brilliant team.

So, who put the team together? who takes responsibility for the tactics they are being told to play? Or where they play? Whose responsibility is it to forge a team?? Being a nice guy doesn't do it, being a prat doesn't do it, being honest, listening and motivating does, good tactics and good use of players contribute to self belief, success.

With no self-belief in what they are being asked to do, it's over. Finished. Period. End of. Done. Trying to make it work now is a painful waste of time. What is at risk is not the fickle fan, it is the clubs reputation in the Premier League, it is the future of the stars we have, it is our future in the Premier League.

Can it be fixed? Yes it can but not with the same set of players or the same manager. The relationship of trust and belief is over.

It was a great experiment, but we never got around the course, like a horse without a rider in the Grand National, it still jumps over the fences but the rider is in the taxi.
Anthony Dwyer
99 Posted 05/04/2016 at 00:47:45
New manager.

New keeper.

Coleman & Baines.
Funes Mori & Stones (or Jagielka)

McCarthy & Besic. (or Barry plus a new signing would be nice)

Deulofeu, Barkley, Lennon (or Niasse & a new signing to replace Naismith and Mirallas)

Rom (or his replacement)

A decent manager would get chemistry from that team.

A new manager could get that team to make Goodison a place to be feared again.

A new manager is a must.

Damian Nolan
100 Posted 05/04/2016 at 00:52:56
Jim, I suppose it isn't easy to set out chapter and verse here but given the provenance of the anecdote I am prepared to accept the veracity of the account given to me.

Readers of this media thread will have to judge for themselves. Stones has been dropped as we all know and I think Coleman may have suffered the same fate had adequate cover been available.

Dave Abrahams
101 Posted 05/04/2016 at 01:15:22
You can't see me, Leighton, if you are reading this, but I am clapping my hands and applauding you for your point of view regarding the manager,. You have nothing to gain by coming out and telling it like it is.

Phil Jagielka, you had a great game yesterday, proving you're captaincy by example, you strove throughout the game and you were very brave. Now be braver still and come out and support your teammate and agree with him that something needs changing at Goodison Park.

I don't care if Baines is good, bad or indifferent at the moment but is seeing the situation as most of us see it, the manager is providing little or no motivation to the team, so the captain and the players have got to take over and play the game as they see fit. They took over last season and played the game that took us to safety in the last few games of the season.

Start playing the game that suits the players, the way that you all feel comfortable playing, in the position that suits you. The philosophy of the manager has bored us fucking stiff; go out and enjoy playing the game, it has got to be better than the way Martinez wants you to play. Play at least the way you played against Chelsea in the FA Cup – you all looked like you fucking cared and wanted to win the game. Come on, you are much better than the way you have all played the last two games, you were shite and you know you were.

Barry Jones
103 Posted 05/04/2016 at 01:34:14
I really am disappointed with people attacking Baines for his current form. Baines has been one of the best full backs in Europe over the last several years both defensively and he always offers a lot going forward. I agree that his distribution has not been up to his phenomenal standards of late but that can be contributed both to fitness and that the rest of the useless twats do not have a clue about taking up the right positions.

Baines is one of the best professionals I have EVER seen at Everton and I first visited Goodison way back in 1965. I would like to think that the wonderful, educated Everton fans that I am familiar with would recognise this and give him the respect he deserves. If every player in this squad had Leighton's heart, brain and ethics we would be top of the league.

Andy Mack
104 Posted 05/04/2016 at 02:45:25
As Dave says, if Jags backs Baines on this - Martinez is history among Evertonians.
Peter Barry
105 Posted 05/04/2016 at 04:37:37
Baines himself epitomised that attitude during Sunday's game, he lost the ball in a tackle then instead of trying to win it back he just shrugged his shoulders and walked away!!!
Joe Clitherow
107 Posted 05/04/2016 at 06:41:37
Raymond (#80),

Martinez doesn't seem to have any problems putting a run together from where I sit. We're on a run of defeat after defeat after defeat right now.

Brian Porter
108 Posted 05/04/2016 at 06:55:54
Well said, Leighton. Bainsey is a true blue Evertonian who, don't forget, stayed with us instead of clutching at the chance to join Man Utd and guaranteed CL football, (are you listening Rom?).

Thank God he's had the guts to openly say what the rest of us know. This was a thinly disguised way of saying that morale is at rock bottom, the team is uninspired and leaderless and have lost faith in the manager and his tactics.

I don't really blame the players who have to follow the manager's instructions or risk losing their place in the team, (Distin, Eto'o etc.)

As Dave and Andy have said, if only Jags would back him up we just might see a player backlash that will force Martinez out preferably or at least to change his tactics to allow players the freedom to do the things they do best. I get the distinct feeling that a Chelsea-like situation is brewing where player power could force the board into taking action to rid us of the worst manager I have seen in 57 years of supporting the club.

No player enjoys losing no matter what level they are playing at and the way Martinez sets his,team up to play is having a completely demoralising effect on the whole squad. Add to that his virtually unfathomable substitutions, lack of pitchside leadership and inane excuses and pathetically unrealistic positivity as the ship sinks around him and the players must wonder if they've all been teleported to a parallel universe where crap is good and lunatics are placed firmly in charge of the asylums.

Martinez should be sacked right now, not at the end of the season or after the cup run or whatever, but RIGHT NOW before he damages the team beyond repair.

Chris Gould
109 Posted 05/04/2016 at 07:24:11
I recall many comments from several regular postees over the years stating that they'd swap 7th-ish place for a bottom half finish if we won some silverware.

If we win the cup then you'll get your wish. Bit odd that you would then want the manager sacked.

Tony Abrahams
110 Posted 05/04/2016 at 08:48:36
Chris, I am one of these posters who would finish in the bottom half for a cup, but I don't find it odd that we should then sack the manager.

It's obvious something is wrong, and if one of the most senior players is saying their is no chemistry in the squad, then it is time for change.

Oliver says that he thinks people are just starting to look after themselves after this comment, but I think Baines is fuming at the way the team is being allowed to be run.

No chemistry equates to no real team spirit, which is the most damaging thing you can have in a team sport.

We won't win the cup, if this isn't sorted out right now.

John Keating
111 Posted 05/04/2016 at 08:57:13
Chris,

I think a few would settle for a bottom half finish and win a cup IF the bottom half finish was a sort of one off. However, I think this is different in that many people see a bottom half finish and possibly worse as being the norm under this guy.

Winning the cup would be great but getting rid of this loser would be like winning the cup!

Dave Abrahams
112 Posted 05/04/2016 at 09:23:03
I think those who are criticising Baines for his form at the moment should have a good look at the set up of the team, on Sunday he had virtually no one covering for him, he was on his own defending the right wing.

There is still plenty of life left in Leighton, as there is in most of the players,the manager is draining the life out them and is depressing most Evertonians I know.

Chris Kelly
113 Posted 05/04/2016 at 09:30:53
You need a leader to help create the chemistry. In the main the talented individuals we have put the effort in. They are not NUFC or Villa by a long chalk, who clearly don't try. This comes down to the coach and tactician, I think that is Roberto's major weakness. His teams get found out and out manouvered.

With a different manager I do believe the current crop could have been top 4. 20 years we have complained that we didn't have a 20-goal man. Now we have him and boy have we wasted it.

I like Lukaku and would hate to lose him, but often he is poorly used with no support. The team try and walk the ball into the box and we never seem to break quickly.

I agree with others in that the new regime have to think big if we are to reposition ourselves as a major challenger. City did and they have always been pants. I still remember when City went for Robinho and everyone whent WTF, they got him though and have never looked back. Time to think big and refresh our ambition. NSNO

Laurie Hartley
114 Posted 05/04/2016 at 09:36:21
Baines,

“I just don't feel as though the chemistry is quite there with the team on the pitch at the moment, and it hasn't been for a while," Baines explained. “We are maybe leaning too heavily on individuals to come up with something."

I have just watched the replay. Three incidents during the game sum up what Leighton Baines is on about:-

1. Phil Jagielka brushes aside his marker at a corner and throws himself at the ball and hits the crossbar with a thunderous header.

2. Phil Jagielka brushes off his marker at another corner and gets a shot in - De Gea prevents a certain goal with a very good reflex save.

3. Phil Jagielka from yet another corner goes for a header at the near post under pressure from a United defender; both miss it but the ball drops in yards of space on the edge of the six yard box. Phil Jagielka gets off the deck and tears strips off Lukaku who should have seized on that opportunity but is standing like a statue next to his marker.

I don't think I have ever seen our Captain that animated. The veins on his forehead and the side of his neck were popping out because he was that angry with his teammate's lack of effort.

The same "teammate" by the way that has just come back from the international break during which time he more or less announced to the football world that he wants a transfer away from the club that paid £28M for him when no one else was prepared to take the punt.

It is no surprise to me that the chemistry isn't there.

Footnote: Niasse may well turn out to be rubbish but I will wait to see him play a few times before I make up my mind. I did however notice that during the short time he was on the pitch he won a heading duel with one of the United defenders.

Steavey Buckley
115 Posted 05/04/2016 at 09:39:33
Martinez picked a good attacking formation on Sunday of Deulofeu, Lukaku, Barkley and Lennon. Unfortunately, Barkley was off his game. And Martinez did not believe he had a ready made replacement by swopping his role with Deulofeu and bringing on Mirallas.

As for Coleman and Baines they are pale shadows of their former selves under Moyes, so are not the same attacking threat they once were. So you could say, from an attacking prospective, Everton were not firing on one cylinder on Sunday.

I do believe is now a case of the Everton manager not being able to motivate the team anymore....must be nearing the end of his tenure.

Laurie Hartley
116 Posted 05/04/2016 at 10:14:25
Dave (#112) – you are right about the lack of cover for Baines and it has been going on for some time. Our recently departed and highly regarded blue brother used to point this out on a regular basis.

What bemuses me is this – our manager starts with two recognised wingers – Lennon and Deulofeu. That was promising. I think it was Jay Wood who said on the pre match thread that we would need width in this game.

Deulofeu on the right and Lennon on the left made sense to me so I was totally astounded to see Lennon operating more or less in the middle of the pitch for most of the game instead of hugging the left wing. If Lennon had been told hug the line he is enough of a professional to have followed instructions so I can only conclude the manager told him to come inside off the wing.

In a post match interview Van Gaal stated he noticed "there was was a lot of space on the right wing" and very pleased with his young sub Fusu-Mensah on following his instructions to exploit that space.

Cor blimey!!

Fosu-Mensah

Tony Abrahams
117 Posted 05/04/2016 at 10:16:42
Steavey, he never picked a good attacking formation, he just put a few attacking players in the team.

Lennon has been keeping Gerry out, so he brings Dela, back in but moves Lennon, out of a position he has been doing well in.

Cleverley, is not a left winger, but besides Osman, he his the only player who has brought balance to our left side this season.

Those players were thrown together, with no real thought, in how to get the best out of them as a COLLECTIVE UNIT. It's all about opinions, but I'm sure loads of the crowd, could have got more out of those same players, with a bit more thought and some organisation.

Doug Earle
118 Posted 05/04/2016 at 11:37:39
Chris Sutton has praised Baines for being honest while ripping into Martinez for his "nonsense" and asked "is he mad" and "blaming everyone but himself". Our great leader is deluded and lives in a fantasy world of positivity.
Tony Twist
119 Posted 05/04/2016 at 11:44:16
Martinez hasn't got a clue as regards having a balanced side, he is totally incompetent. If we win the FA Cup, do you honestly think that BK will get rid of this clown of a manager? Now will the new majority shareholder flex his muscles and get rid of the manager? I am not so sure.

We have always been very patient with our managers and I don't think this will change. To me, the cup is a nice to have, I value more us beating teams week upon week. Martinez isn't capable of achieving this, so I want him gone.

Barry Pearce
120 Posted 05/04/2016 at 11:59:21
I would to see young Dowell brought into the first team squad.

He's playing and scoring consistently for the Under-21s this lad has abundant skill. Surely it couldn't do any harm. He's the future of our great club.

Colin Malone
121 Posted 05/04/2016 at 12:42:31
Would you call it chemistry or would you call it understanding one another.
We watch Demi Alli and Harry Kane, these two are no better than Barkley and Lukaku but their chemistry or call it understanding with each other is a million miles ahead of Barkley and Lukaku.
Neil Pickering
122 Posted 05/04/2016 at 12:42:37
Unless we sack him now, which we all know won't happen, I am all for us losing every game between now and the end of the season. And I include the semi-final and even final in that if we get there.

Worst possible scenario for our club is us winning the cup with this clown at the helm. It will guarantee him at least another season, and a mass exodus of our best players in the summer.

I dream of Mourinho taking over our club. He isn't nailed on at Man Utd yet so why don't we go and beg him? The Man Utd job is a harder job unquestionably because I think we have a better squad than they do. Man Utd need major surgery, and imo we don't.

Kevin Tully
124 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:01:26
Neil Pickering – How much of your hard earned cash will you be spending to get down to Wembley?
Eugene Ruane
125 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:07:31
Neil 122 - maybe the most petulant, raging, stupid post I've ever read on TW (certainly top ten).

'I am all for us losing every game between now and the end of the season. And I include the semi final and even final in that if we get there.'

So there you have it, an 'Evertonian' who would be gutted if we won the FA Cup final.

Who, on seeing Jags lift the trophy, would (presumably) have his head in his hand and be mumbling 'no, no, NO!!'

Or conversely, after 89 mins of a final against Watford/Palace, with the score at 0-0, would leap out of his seat with joy should Everton concede.

You know who else would love us to lose every game and the cup?

Every kopite I know.

Get a fucking grip!

Raymond Fox
126 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:11:02
Steavey (#115), i agree with all your post, apart from the manager being unable to motivate the players.

Motivate them, they shouldn't need motivating. Their playing at Old Trafford for starters, some are playing for a place in the Euro Comp. in the summer, plus they have been getting slaughtered by all and sundry because of the results. Add to the list getting paid a kings ransom every week, self pride would make me give my all.

Any player not giving 100% in every game should be dropped straight away, regardless of who we have as a replacement.
I'd start with Barkley.

Martin Mason
127 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:13:32
I personally agree with Neil, not winning the Cup and having a competent coach for the new season would be a massive win for the club.

Winning the FA cup is important for the more "trophy hunting" fans (e.g., Kopites), the future good of the club is for the benefit of all present and future Evertonians. Come on, Eugene who are the Kopites? The Trophy Hunters or those who look towards the long term good?

John Louis Jones
128 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:13:38
I think statement from Baines is just another nail in Roberto's coffin. It is obvious that certain players are not playing for him.

For Baines to say what he has I really think that there is something very wrong in the background. Could be the Tactical Setup? Playing with No left winger for that last seasons when we have Mirallas and Pienaar at the club must leave the players bewildered.

People slate Kevin, But before Martinez Came he was probably the best forward at the club and that was from playing down the left.

Martinez has been hiding behind the fact the club is in two semi-finials since 1984. From his comments, I really do think that he thinks history is going to repeat its self. We are going to win the FA Cup and go on to dominate Europe and the premier league. The experienced players will have seen through this BS, by the sounds Of Jags and Now Baines (Also Pienaar) who are longest serving players they have had enough.

Martinez Out!

Dave Brierley
129 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:14:39
Barry Jones (#103). I agree with every word. Other than Ray Wilson, Baines is the best left back I've ever seen in an Everton shirt. Still is more than worth his place and it makes me smile that by bringing in Brian Oviedo or Galloway in his place as some suggest, our fortunes might change. Really?

Laurie Hartley (#106). I think you've hit the nail on the head. Honest pros like Jags and Baines must get heartily sick of reading about Lukaku and his ambitions for Champions League and 'big clubs' etc, and see the little effort he puts in a lot of games. He is not alone in having ambitions that far outweigh his ability.

There's something completely wrong at the core of our squad and I'm afraid dropping the die-hards like Jags and Baines is the last thing we should do to turn it round. Martinez simply cannot cope at this level.

Tom Bowers
130 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:24:17
Most clubs have rules about what players can and cannot say publicly and if they break the rules then they are punished accordingly. However, some seasoned professionals get so frustrated with what's going on they speak their minds and to be damned with it.

Bainsey is the latest to do that but as some have pointed out many of us knew the problems anyway and have done since before Christmas.

Martinez knows the problems also but does not have what it takes to change things. What, I ask was the reason for bringing in Niasse? Martinez remarks that he is not yet fully fit. Is that not a damning indictment of Martinez?

If ever a manager needed sacking it's this one and I believe he would have gone by now if they were any closer to the drop zone.

Mike Morrissey
131 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:26:09
Well said, Bainesy. For me, he sums up the last couple of seasons. A class operator whose previous consistency has been undermined by the (lack of) players in front of him, playing in a system which exposes his weaknesses rather than exploits his qualities.

Yes, his delivery is dreadfully poor at times and, as much as I admire Pienaar, he is a busted flush.

I just can't help thinking that a return to basics would see the best of him again. It has also struck me that this description could easily apply to most of our team at the moment. The manager is very definitely responsible for this state of affairs and needs to be shown the door now.

Tim Wardrop
132 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:28:26
I'm happy to admit that up until very recently I've been in the "Roberto in" camp, as I just felt that, while things were clearly not going well, he was on the verge of something potentially very exciting with just a few tweaks here or there. But now I just can't escape what's staring me in the face: he isn't capable of getting the best out of this group of players and he doesn't have the desire to change.

It's a real shame, as I've got a lot of time for him as a bloke and as a football person (in terms of the way he wants the game to be played), but time's up, I'm afraid. Leighton's comments are the icing on the cake

Patrick Murphy
133 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:34:01
Somebody posted last week that Evertonians were embarrassing the club. I fiercely defended the supporters who were airing their views on the Managerial situation, even if those views were a little bit over the top.

However, those people hoping and wishing that Everton lose any game of football at any time for any reason are not in my mind true Evertonians and the editors should remove such posts as they truly are embarrassing for the club, its supporters and the site.

Les Martin
134 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:34:18
The chemistry isn't right and Martinez has had enough time to find the right potion.

Pleased that Baines is letting his feelings known, and very diplomatic too!

Ron Sear
135 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:40:04
The guy who bothered me the most was John Stones. I don't know if anybody watched that interview with Ian Snodin on Bay TV, but he came across as a right arrogant little brat. A couple of players like him plus an incompetent manager would do for the morale of any team.
John Keating
136 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:46:08
Patrick

The dipstick who said we were embarrassing was "Neil Steele" who after the thread has never been seen since.

I appreciate what you are saying but you have to remember that lads who have supported this Club since before they could speak live and breath it. We see charlatans like Martinez – who would be better being a politician than a manager – come to us and cause mayhem, after which they take the £3 million payoff and piss off elsewhere.

I do not agree with folk wishing us to lose but I can understand it in the context of the impossible situation we find ourselves. We are all supporters of this great club and as such we have to see and understand how different lads react.

Posters who say things like that are back supporting the lads next week. The charlatans just piss off. I hope your request to remove posts, in this instance, is not forthcoming.

Martin Mason
137 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:46:11
Patrick, you shouldn't attempt censorship; everybody is entitled to their opinion even if it's "thought crime" to you personally. Anyway why do you think that the short-term pain of losing a few games is worse than getting rid of the worst manager we've ever had?

Seems a bit strange to me and remember that all managers lose their jobs because they lose games, all we say is that instead of suffering losing a lot over a long period before the chairman acts, just compress the time frame.

As a true Evertonian I'd gladly and proudly watch Everton lose if it would guarantee Kenwright reaching the decision to get rid of Martinez.

Dave Abrahams
138 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:00:45
Well Martin you are free to say what you like, even if I could never agree with that statement, lose in a semi-final, or worse a final, Martin not having a go but I doubt you will be going to either of those games.

I will be going and roaring my head off, as in the Chelsea game, I'm paying through the fucking nose for the privilege of going down there, so I expect the players to run their plums off and let me come home happy, for once.

Lose? Those bastard players.... Don't even think about it!!!!.

Neil Pickering
139 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:02:08
I knew I'd get slaughtered for saying I want us to lose every future game including the FA Cup whilst Martinez is in charge, but unless that happens then he will remain in charge and we will be having the same discussion in 6 to 12 months time. He has to go, and if it means us sacrificing the FA Cup in order to get someone who can help keep our best players and take us on a level then I'm ok with that.

Win FA Cup = Martinez staying and Lukaku, Stones etc going, as well as having to put up with the same old shite he spouts.

Or

Losing every game = he's sacked and we hopefully get a renowned coach who knows his arse from his elbow.

Sorry but it's a no-brainer for me. FA Cup means fuck all with him at the helm taking us only one way: DOWN!

Eugene Ruane
140 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:09:59
Patrick - 133 - '..those people hoping and wishing that Everton lose any game of football at any time for any reason are not in my mind true Evertonians and the editors should remove such posts as they truly are embarrassing for the club, its supporters and the site.'

No don't remove their posts, let everyone see and remember the names.

Let everyone see that there are 'Evertonians' praying we lose every game left in the season, including the semi-final and/or final of the FA Cup, because they have decided this would be the catalyst for the removal of Martinez.

Martin Mason - 127.

'I personally agree with Neil, not winning the Cup and having a competent coach for the new season would be a massive win for the club. Winning the FA cup is important for the more "trophy hunting" fans (e.g., Kopites), the future good of the club is for the benefit of all present and future Evertonians. Come on Eugene who are the Kopites? the Trophy Hunters or those who look towards the long term good?'

Well...I've read your opinions on BK and our board over the years so of course you agree.

Of course you think losing the FA Cup would be a massive win.

And of course you think clubs and supporters wanting to win trophies is somehow 'iffy.'

I mean it's hardly likely that you're suddenly going to develop insight or start posting informed opinion.

And just to show how lacking in insight, you proudly tell the world...

'As a true Evertonian I'd gladly and proudly watch Everton lose if it would guarantee BK reaching the decision to get rid of RM'

Well here is a dose of reality - there is nothing (nb: NOTH-ING) to suggest any getting-rid decision would be guaranteed after a cup defeat.

Repeat, no guarantee, fucking none - that deal exists only in your head and in the pea-brains of those who believe in their own dot-to-dot 'logic' (ie: we lose, he goes).

Still I have to 'congratulate' you on one thing, I have never seen anyone describe themselves as 'a true Evertonian' and to prove it, tell us they want us to lose an FA Cup final.


Kim Vivian
141 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:15:10
Eugene - I was expecting you to ask Neil how we were going to lose the semi-final AND the final...
Robbie Muldoon
142 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:18:22
I proper believed in Martinez when he arrived and he was a breath of fresh air, dispersing the stagnation that had long set in under Moyes. But after 3 seasons this is what we are going to get. And it's not good enough.

He has got to be released at the end of the season. It wouldn't be wise to throw his way the huge amounts of money we look like having to spend this summer.

Neil Pickering
143 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:21:17
Eugene, that's fine mate. I had a season ticket for the best part of 15 years, and supported Everton since I was about 4 years old (I'm nearly 40) but yeah I'm not a true fan as you say.

Do us a favour then, if we do win the cup and he stays, he pisses the owners money away and again we struggle like fuck next year, don't come on here complaining he should be sacked. If you didn't already know it football is a results business, and if you get poor results consistently you lose your job, so I would say the odds of him getting sacked would be a lot higher if we lose yes?

What's your problem? As fans we are used to losing and disappointment ! Short-term pain fro long-term gain I see it as. We now have an owner with money and hopefully ambition, so I say let's start the revolution as soon as we can, and not dither around because Martinez won us a cup.

He won Wigan a cup as well. How did that work out?

Eugene Ruane
144 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:25:22
Neil Pickering, you say 'it's a no-brainer for me'.

My guess is a lot of things are.

You expertly state (even though it is ALL pure guesswork and contains nothing fucking factual at all)

'Win FA Cup = Martinez staying and Lukaku, Stones etc going, as well as having to put up with the same old shite he spouts'.

Haven't you forgotten a couple of things?

Yeah I think so – let me remind you (with facts)

Win FA Cup = it's no longer decades since out last major trophy. Thousands of young Evertonians experience what it's like to win a major trophy. Thousands of Evertonians have a day at Wembley they'll remember their entire lives. We're in Europe again.

As for 'Losing every game = he's sacked and we hopefully get a renowned coach who knows his arse from his elbow'

Wishful thinking guesswork and bollocks and yet on the strength of it, you'll be rooting for our opponents in the semi-final and final should we get there.

Pitiful.

Karl Parsons
145 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:25:23
What pisses me off is where is the televised interview with loveable Kenwright with his arms around our new investor when we lose? You can't fucking come on TV only when we win FFS!
Keith Knowles
146 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:26:51
Chris Sutton sums it up perfectly on BBC Sport. I was prepared to back Martinez but no longer even if we win the FA Cup.
Kevin Tully
147 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:27:56
Maybe Neil & Martin could get together and sit in a pub somewhere, while they cheer on our opponents?

What a pair....

Neil Pickering
148 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:32:32
You sound like Rafa there with your FACTS Eugene.

No need to get personal, especially since you know nothing about me. I'm a true fan, and I don't need you to define me with your insults.

I want the manager gone as of 5 mins ago. Not after the semi, or after a final. NOW. And I make no apology for how that happens, so say what you like about me. I'm sound with it.

Jamie Barlow
149 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:33:30
And I was told there aren't Evertonians that wanted us to lose.

Sad sad people.

Nick Page
150 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:35:51
OK, how about we WIN the cup, he keeps his "reputation" making it easier for him to get another job/us get rid. Everyone's a winner.

On Niasse, how come we are always the ones who buy someone and then they don't play for six months / always unfit/ any other excuse? I don't see this with other clubs. And if is so unfit, then wtf was he doing bringing him on v West Ham in 76th minute? The rest is history!

Joe Clitherow
151 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:36:23
Neil and Martin

As someone who has also paid through the nose like Dave A above I also find it quite disrespectful that you are hoping Everton lose.

Far from being a "true Evertonian" I think you've lost the plot in thinking we are somehow "Trophy Hunters" whatever that means. Not that I really understand what that is as I say, because surely we all want our club to be successful? Don't we? I think you may be confusing "Glory Hunters" (see David Mellor) who change allegiance to clubs at the drop of a hat. We aren't talking about that here.

As for wanting Everton to lose, well apart from the fact the world doesn't work like that, i.e. you *hoping* that something will happen makes not a jot of difference to whether it will or not, but you *saying* you hope it will happen will actually piss off a lot of people who have spent a lot of money; well actually if Martinez won every single game from now on and made me look a right dickhead, I would be pleased because Everton do well and bollocks to Martinez. I don't care about him I care about Everton.

Obviously he won't win every game though because he is useless, and there actually is a pretty good chance that he will lose every game, because, err, he is useless.

It is no reason to come and tell other Evertonians that that is what you want to happen though because that is really disrespectful. A bit like telling us we are really stupid for wasting our money going to Wembley to see us get beat. We all know that is likely to happen, it isn't going to stop us going and supporting the team. The difference between a true Evertonian, to use your phrase, and whatever else there is, is that we know we may get beat but guess what? we still go and follow the team for the chance of Hunting a Trophy.

Sometimes it is better to keep your opinions to yourself.

Peter Laing
152 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:41:10
Have to agree with the sentiments of Eugene and Jamie. For any 'Evertonian' to wish that Everton lose a crucial game such as a FA Cup Semi Final or Final in my book lose the credence and right to call themselves an Everton 'supporter'. Truly disgraceful and 'hateful' to some extent.
Kevin Tully
153 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:44:04
Correct, Joe, very disrespectful to put it mildly. As for someone who would want to see 32,000 Blues waste their time, money & support, there are no words. You're both an embarrassment!
Eugene Ruane
154 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:46:25
Neil - 'You sound like Rafa there with your FACTS Eugene.'

Yes.....and?

You desperately add 'No need to get personal, especially since you know nothing about me. I'm a true fan, and I don't need you to define me with your insults.

No no no, not true - I DO know something about you!

I know (because you told everyone on a public forum) that you call yourself an 'Evertonian' and a 'true fan' yet post that you hope Everton lose the FA Cup final (and/or semi-final) and every game for the rest of the season.

Insults?

Imo you insult every blue who will be roaring us on at Wembley.

Will Firstbrook
155 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:55:46
I'm not sure where it was officially indicated by anyone in the club hierarchy that an FA Cup win guarantees Martinez stays or a loss guarantees he moves on. Not unreasonable to assume there is a causal link, however, unless someone can confirm this is the case, then it's all speculation (or hope depending on where you sit) at this point.

As such, I respectfully disagree with the notion that the means (failing in the FA Cup in this case) somehow justifies the end (El Bob moves on). For the primary reason that we can't be certain the two are inextricably linked.

IMO, the ends for this club should always be to win under any and all circumstances. My personal view is that the outcome of the FA Cup will have some bearing on Martinez's future but will not be the sole determining factor.

Franny Porter
156 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:58:18
My derby ticket is going to cost me fifty quid.

My semi final tickets have cost me 140 quid for three excluding postage (my Mrs, my daughter and my mum are going, I haven't even got my own yet!)

It will cost me about another 150 quid in petrol and coach fares to go to four games between now and May.

On top of this we have three season tickets so will be up for the Southampton and Bournemouth games and all the costs that come with home games with the family involved.

So no, I don't want us to lose ANY games. Ever.

To suggest that you do, makes you nothing short of a fucking idiot who is wasting a lot of money going the game.

Martin Mason
157 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:05:42
If I was offered the choice of Everton losing any given game including the cup final and Martinez being offloaded, I personally would take it. It's hypothetical of course but it's nobody's business but mine and an opinion I'm perfectly entitled to hold.

If I'd struck this deal with the Cup final Devil, then no Everton fans would be disrespected because they wouldn't know, they'd enjoy the day out no less and believe that we'd just bottled a big game as usual... but THEN. They wake up Sunday and the worst manager we have ever had has been sacked.

Then I'd reveal my deal and my name would ring around Goodison next home game for the sacrifice I made to get rid of a total buffoon from our great club.

Stop taking yourself so seriously FFS, I promise, I won't do the deal but then again who needs to? – we lose most games anyway and still we go!!!

Kevin Tully
158 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:16:56
Only one reply to that post, Martin:

Link

Jay Wood
159 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:20:39
I have no sympathy for the likes of Neil Pickering and Martin Mason for the criticism they draw for wishing Everton to lose every game until the end of the season, including losing out in the semi or final of the cup.

Nor can I agree with Patrick Murphy that such posts should be removed. As others have said, leave them up for all to see and to name and shame the authors.

And to cap it all, Neil and Martin both have the gall to call themselves "true Evertonians", rather than "Kopite trophy hunters" (copyright, Martin Mason), for wishing defeat on the Blues in the Cup.

Martin Mason in particular has been stating the same for weeks, even before we defeated Chelski in the quarters. Just last week, piqued by comments challenging him on his position, he wrote:

"I have a brother, his name is Chris and, like me, he's been watching Everton since the late 50s. He is nothing at all like me and the last place that he would post views would be here. I'll leave you to think about why that should be so."

Having given it some thought, could it be that Chris would be ashamed to be associated with the views of a sibling that posts comments such as:

"I'd gladly and proudly watch Everton lose if it would guarantee BK reaching the decision to get rid of RM."

As others have already pointed out, it is such flawed thinking. Nothing is guaranteed should we lose every game until the end of the season, other than a lower league position and no FA Cup victory.

It is just as likely we can win the FA Cup with two vitories and RM may STILL be dismissed.

Shameful comments from so-called 'true Evertonians.'

Joe Clitherow
160 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:24:38
Martin

Back in the real world...

You aren't offered the deal you describe, you're just sharing your fantasy daydreams and in the process, actually causing offence to real world people who have paid real world money. It's Walter Mitty except actually written down and inviting people to comment.

Wouldn't you be better off just selling your soul for Everton to win every single trophy from now on by the way rather than asking for Everton to lose games on the off chance we may sack Martinez, on the off chance we subsequently get someone better, and on the off chance we may then win something? Does that make you a Trophy Hunter though? Hmmm, dilemma. In any case I think you may want to think through the logic of the price of your soul before you dust off the Aleister Crowley instructions and break out the black candles. Just a thought

"ring round Goodison for your sacrifice"? WTF??? I think it is more likely people would be discussing the headline "DEVIL EXISTS – FOR REAL!!! shocker – but faced with offer local man settles for Martinez sack.

But I digress... Can I suggest you need a little more self awareness and concern for the impact you have by posting here.

As for taking yourself seriously, you recently went into a bizarre rant on another thread with respect to your real world brother in response to a throwaway joke made by another poster so the words pot, kettle and black jump to mind straight away.

Neil Steele
161 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:29:36
We should have taken the money for Baines when we had chance... he looks well cooked as a force now.

Doesn't stop crosses, positionally clueless, no use going forward without a permanent close-proximity wall pass assistant (i.e, Pienaar) and dreadfully one-footed and obvious in possession.

In short, shut up Leighton and get your own house in order before sniping.

Martin Mason
162 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:36:07
Joe, there's hurt and the fake version. Don't be such an old tart.

There's no wish for Everton to lose or to hurt your very sensitive inner feelings, is it better if I say that I'd accept losing every game if the buffoon was sent packing rather than the thought crime of wishing it?

Jay Wood
163 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:42:54
Wow ... I mean ... just ... WOW!

Martin Mason @ 157.

And he closes by saying "Stop taking yourself so seriously FFS..."

I think my WOW is metamorphosing into a concerned ... Whooooooaaaaa ...

Dave Brierley
164 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:44:47
That's not the Leighton Baines I recognise, Ian (#161). I appreciate his contribution both on and off the pitch. Hardly sniping, more self/team analysis.

Seamus Coleman on the other hand is the full back that worries me. Up until this season I thought he would go on to be one of the very best in Europe but his performances have been erratic at best this season.

Mind you, I guess when you're playing in a group of players without any obvious cohesion, it's difficult to shine.

Eugene Ruane
165 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:48:29
Having read Martin Mason's Dennis Wheatley version of 'If' (157) have I learned anything?

Not really...but I reckon I've a fair idea of his state of mind just before he posts.

Link

Joe Clitherow
166 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:54:57
Martin

Not much, you old fart (you started it!)

In advance, you are required to support Everton in order to describe yourself as a true Evertonian in my book.

No tactical defeats. I got into a right argument with the fellas sat next to me who stood up and applauded Man City scoring at Goodison. Lost the plot? Or just traitors?

It's very different to finding solace and a silver lining after we get beat.

For me, being clearly the sensitive soul you describe, if I had inadvertently offended people without realising, and then when it was pointed out to me suddenly realised what I had done, I would immediately retract remarks and apologise. If I didn't do that I'd think I was a right pompous and self important idiot. But that's my view I guess.

Actually I am not offended at all by clearly idiotic remarks, it just reflects on the person who made them.

But for the likes of Franny Porter above, I think you may want to reconsider.

By the way, no-one wants Martinez gone more than me. People like me, Phil Walling, and a few others posted from the start what we thought would happen but still got behind him for the team's sake. I thought I was wrong in his first season, and the turning point was Ovideo at OT. I turned back to confirmation of my opinion at Murder in the drubbing and I wanted him gone when he was beaten 3-0 at Swansea.

None of that stops me wanting to see another FA Cup triumph in any way, forlorn hope though I think it is.

James Royston
167 Posted 05/04/2016 at 16:06:31
Heard that Bainsey expressed rather stronger opinions on a similar type at a weekly players meeting a while ago. He did not play again until Garbutt & Oviedo were injured when he suddenly made a recovery from his own injury!!!

Had he been a naughty boy like Eto'o & Distin before him? Is it all just a coincidence? Will he be unfit for the next game?

Jim Hardin
168 Posted 05/04/2016 at 16:23:47
So while the last several responses seem to be off the actual point of the piece and very very personal unfortunately, I am a little confused (or a lot). See about two weeks ago multiple people were on here posting that they would lose the Liverpool game to win the FA Cup. They would play reserves and other such BS. So it is a short-term set-back to ensure a long-term objective. No injuries or cards to essential starters (whoever the heck they may be).

The part that is confusing to me is some of these same people are on here castigating Evertonians who wish the club would lose every game to ensure RM is gone. Again short term set-back to ensure long-term goal.

What is really the difference other than one group prioritizing winning shiny things while the other group prioritizes getting a new manager. Seems hypocritical to blast the latter group whilst clapping on the former for their pragmatism and desperation.

I would submit all members of both groups and also, those who want Everton to try to win every damn game they play in and to field the best damn team they can every game, are all fans of the club. None of the opinions are embarrassing to me, including those who continue to back a manager I never wanted, as they are opinions.

The real problem is that we have now arrived at a stage where our players have to come out and say how bad things are to try to get our management to pull their heads out of their collective asses and remedy the situation. Sign a manger already for next season like Chelsea did FFS! That news alone should lift the players' spirits and might help the results.

It might even end the arguments on here, at least on this topic so we can get back to arguing over the numerous other choices we have.

Phil Walling
170 Posted 05/04/2016 at 16:30:37
Hey, hold on Neil and Martin, if your dream comes true, is there any chance you will cover all the bets I've made in singles, doubles, trebles and accumulators that we will win the Cup, beat Crystal Palace, Watford, Bournemouth, Liverpool, reach 50 points by the season's end and have Martinez as our manager next season?

Wishing him gone is one thing but willing my bets to lose is something else completely. Have a bloody heart, lads!

Joe Clitherow
171 Posted 05/04/2016 at 16:36:15
Eugene, that link cracked me up!
James Hughes
173 Posted 05/04/2016 at 16:41:19
Eugene (#165) The original IF is much better, and you are spot on with the FACT that we all have no guarantees form EFC. Martinez could lose every game left and still be here next season or get a half decent run together and win our first silverware for 21 years and get his P45. I would defo prefer the latter.

Anyway I like the last verse from Rudyard:-

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings — nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And — which is more — you'll be a Man, my son!

James Flynn
174 Posted 05/04/2016 at 16:49:46
One hears talk of former fighters having a tough time after retirement. But still sad to see how far old Tex Cobb (Eugene's link) has fallen. I always liked him.
Linda Morrison
175 Posted 05/04/2016 at 17:01:40
Folks there is something rotten happening at the club at the moment. The players do not want to play for the manager, every person can see it. I think it is due to a combination of reasons.

The unease at the way Distin was treated by Martinez, he opened his mouth and was dropped like a hot stone. What did he say that was so bad? Sorry boss but I do not think this is working can we try something else.

The ability to make terrible decisions about substitutes. My fiend told me he was at the West Ham game and when RM took Lennon off he could see McCarthy mouth to Barkley "What the fuck is he doing"?

The ability to get worse every season. I was hoping that last season was down to too many injuries, post World Cup etc but it obviously wasn't. The first season was a fluke, the players were relieved to see the new manager with a different philosophy.

The players are totally demotivated now. Martinez'a interview post match when he said that the "Fans like the rest of us can't understand what is happening" was the end for me.

He is hopeless this season we will not even make 50 points. Don't worry about who we get just concentrate on him going. If the team lose on Saturday that will be 4 in a row and I'll be amazed if he sees us into the semi final. Put Ferguson and Unsworth in charge for the rest of the season

Phil Walling
176 Posted 05/04/2016 at 17:08:27
Are you sure that is not a still from one of Tex's many films? I'm sure I read that he won a multi million law suit against Sports Illustrated who'd alleged he'd taken a dive in an early fight and then retired from acting to pursue an 'academic' career.
Eugene Ruane
177 Posted 05/04/2016 at 17:09:00
James (173) - You seem to be under the impression the 'If' I referred was the Kipling version.

Not the case (I wouldn't give that cake-making colonialist Tory twat house room).

I was actually talking about a very different version.

Link

Dave Abrahams
178 Posted 05/04/2016 at 17:10:21
James (#167) heard the same thing. It, allegedly, happened after a recent game.
Matt Muzi
179 Posted 05/04/2016 at 18:37:34
Have you seen the petition on Change.org, to get Martinez out?

Link [Now fixed — Ed]

I'd like to think that Kenwright, Mr Moshiri & the rest of the board can see the discontent of the fans. My concern is that somehow Martinez will remain in post till early next season. How I don't know, because any other club in the premier league would of gotten rid of him a long time ago.

I hate to say it, but a walk out similar to what the deluded bunch over the park did, may be a way of getting the message across. Lets be honest, based on this seasons home games thus far you're not going to miss anything leaving Goodison early, other than frustration despair and anger!

Andrew Presly
181 Posted 05/04/2016 at 18:52:31
Mike Walker was / is the worst manager we've had in the last 30 years. Anyone who brands Martinez with that label wasn't around.
Eugene Ruane
182 Posted 05/04/2016 at 18:52:36
Matt that link (#179) says – 'This petition isn't available. Either the URL is incorrect, it violated our Community Guidelines, or the starter removed it'
Peter Bell
183 Posted 05/04/2016 at 18:57:57
Andrew, I was around, and Walker didn't even get a full season, he got the back end of one, and the front end of the next.

Not fair to judge him against this clown who has had almost 3 full seasons

Chris Kelly
184 Posted 05/04/2016 at 19:09:53
I never want to see Everton lose, ever.

I also want Martinez to go, he tried and it didn't work out for him.

I do wonder whether Jags, as Captain has a route to the Board if there are rumblings in the dressing room. Would be good to see a positive statement from the Board regarding expectations and what they expect, but as in the past, Everton can seem like the safest job in football.

Moshiri was on the board at Arsenal and in my view if they should have got shut of Wenger ages ago, so we will what position he takes with Martinez. Hopefully new ambition is shown and we go for a proven winner. Neither Martinez's track record, his 3 years at Everton or our current position can convince anyone he is the right man for the job. Even the pundits are circling.

Colin Gee
185 Posted 05/04/2016 at 19:12:55
Wasn't it Mike Walker that signed Brett Angell? That signing alone should qualify him as the worst Everton Manager ever.

Andrew Presly
188 Posted 05/04/2016 at 19:37:12
Peter #183 - did you want Mike Walker to stay after that 1-0 win vs West Ham? Ablett diving header giving us our first win two months after the 94-95 season started?

I'd lost the will to live by then so can't remember how I felt but interesting that the board acted in spite of this reversal of fortunes, sacked Walker post that game and installed Royle, the season ending with our last trophy.

I'd stick with Martinez until after the Cup run at least but maybe a sign there?!

Matt Muzi
189 Posted 05/04/2016 at 19:38:31
Eugene, try this link

https://www.change.org/p/everton-martinez-out

I think when you highlight in the comments box on here and hit the URL it might drop off everything after the .org, so you just end up on the Change home page.

Let me know if it doesn't work

Amit Vithlani
192 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:03:41
Signed petition
Don Alexander
193 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:14:54
On a personal note I just wanna know how Eugene got that photo of my missus at #165?
Brian Murray
194 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:21:29
Gladly signed petition. Act now, Moshiri lad, and put us out our misery. We will win or bottle the cup bid with or without him. Ditto the Derby unless we play the kids who won't have fear.

Circa 1964 Anfield, a kid called Harvey etc... I was only two but me arl fella talked about how the Kop emptied so quick when 3rd went in. Except for delirious Blues.
James Flynn
195 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:41:09
Phil (176) - I was kidding. That's not Cobb, unless he's shrunk a foot.
He does look like Cobb though.

Liked your post (170). I'm years away from the gambling crowd I grew up with. Still, though, good to see someone maintain perspective.

Tony Abrahams
196 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:56:49
Neil (#161), sorry but that's a really pathetic post mate. We should have sold Baines? You tell him to get his own house in order Neil, but how the fuck can he when he's getting no help?

Have you ever played fullback, with no-one ahead of you to help you Neil?

Possibly the worst post I have ever read on ToffeeWeb, absolutely sickening to read.

Lenny Kingman
197 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:57:50
Feel sorry for Baines in some minute way. He missed the boat and sacrificed his superior skills by not taking the Man Utd escape route when he had a chance. To win honours which were unlikely to occur where he was stationed. Loyalty, maybe; stupidity, possibly; lack of ambition, probably.

As the poster at #15 basically said, Baines's long-winded covert analysis was that Martinez and his support team of goons haven't got a clue how to operate at the level Blues expect and deserve.

Why don't millionaire players with nothing to lose say it out loud and clear and not pussyfoot around? The players are in revolt and will not give of their best. Which even to the third rate Wigan mafia must be obvious by now.

Oh for the days when Gordon West would give the two fingered salute to his previously adoring fans in the Street End without worrying about the consequences.

Ray Jacques
198 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:59:32
My son will be 21 in November and was therefore born in 1995. He lives and breathes Everton and is looking forward to Wembley. I remember his disappointment and devastation after the FA Cup Final loss in 2009 and even worst after the semi-final defeat by the RS a few seasons later.

He has never seen Everton lift a trophy (although I tell him about the eighties and the 1995 FA Cup Final). How a fellow 'supporter' can wish to deprive him of seeing his Everton dreams come true due to a bitter and twisted wish to have the manager sacked is beyond belief.

I want Martinez gone, my son wants him gone, we all want him gone – but to say this in lieu of winning a cup is madness.

Andy Crooks
199 Posted 05/04/2016 at 21:17:31
I Have contempt for Martinez but to win the FA cup would be a triumph for the Evertonians who turn up and pay their money and shout and cheer and stand when Deulofeu does a magical step over and when Jagielka lifts that cup over his head.

To me, being a supporter is about the memories and if we win the cup I will, and this is totally devoid of pragmatism, do a fucking cartwheel.

Tony Abrahams
200 Posted 05/04/2016 at 21:21:39
Thanks Ray, I've stopped travelling lately, but we used to go with my two sons, my mate's son and another lad who is 26.

They still go everywhere Everton play; between these four kids, they must have accumulated at least 60 years between them watching us win nothing.

Not just Goodison, but fucking everywhere, they travel. I asked my kids years ago, a family holiday, or watch Everton in Europe?

They never saw a beach, and they still haven't seen Everton run around Wembley with the cup.

Sometimes people say things without really thinking.

Andrew James
201 Posted 05/04/2016 at 21:39:09
Why would anyone be critical of Leighton Baines? He's been a wonderful player for us and is one of the good ones. He's the best left back I've seen for us and I saw Andy Hinchcliffe's all too short spell in mid-90's (although he did get played left sided midfield as well) and there was a certain Welshman with a Flemish name who liked a tackle.

He's a local lad, a thoughtful person and I really hope he has been voicing his opinions. He's certainly no mug and Martinez et al would do well to listen to him especially when he used to lead all the assist tables.

As for the supporting debate...really? I disliked most of our squad and style under Walter Smith but I always willed them to win however bad I thought things were. We need a Cup. We've been stuck on 5 FA Cups for 21 years. In my lifetime we've been to 6 finals and lost 4. Time to increase the WIN column.

Hopefully we'll sack Martinez once we've been returned to reality and he's lost the first 10 league games of next season. I jest but he is going to have to be fired for one of these long losing streaks sooner or later.

Jamie Crowley
202 Posted 05/04/2016 at 21:53:18
Tony @ 200 and Ray @198-

I stated earlier that if we actually win the FA Cup, I'd toast Harold Matthews (RIP) and all the Blues aged 60-plus who just deserve it.

Never, ever crossed my mind (simpleton) but your points about the younger generation of supporters who've not seen Everton win a thing is excellent and one I'm glad you brought up.

And Tony finally I have to add a personal note - one that really has naught to do with Everton per se, and I hope it's allowed to stand.

I asked my kids years ago, a family holiday, or watch Everton in Europe?

It's damn pleasing to this old fart to see someone out there told their kids "no." Or, if you like, "you can have THIS but if we do THIS you can't have THAT."

In a day and age where seemingly the entire world teaches their kids me-me-me and self-absorption rules the day, it is incredibly refreshing to hear a father tell his kids something along the lines of, "we can do one thing, but we won't do both / can't afford both"... et al.

You didn't spoil them. You didn't give them everything they wanted. And to their credit they chose the event that would bring memories and bonding - not some superficial trip.

I think that is simply fantastic, and I think someone out there, even a stranger on the internet, should applaud you.

It seems the whole world turns upside down to give their kids everything, when the best thing for them is NOT to give them everything...

Ray Jacques
204 Posted 05/04/2016 at 22:19:10
Jamie,

I could also add a selfish point. I am 52, if we don't win a trophy for another 21 years then doing the maths, I may not be around to see it!

I can vaguely remember the league win in 1970 so don't count that as a clear one, therefore in the 46 years since, we have won a cup/league in 4 of those. This gives an average of one trophy every 11 to 12 years. Hardly a frequent event is it?

They should all be cherished, and whilst I still have my marbles then I have wonderful memories of these occasions.

Lets win the cup and the aftermath will take care of itself

Mick Davies
205 Posted 05/04/2016 at 22:39:22
I don't understand posts like 161 slagging Baines and his form when you can look at Barkley, Stones, Coleman, Howard, Barry, McCarthy, Mirallas and even at times Jags, who have been shadows of their former selves for over the last 2 years. The fact that so many publicly acclaimed international players can have such a sustained, combined drop in standards can only be put down to one factor: Not being properly coached.

I don't know if anyone else noticed but when Coleman chased and then tackled (I think) Martial and put the ball out for a corner, he looked like he needed an iron lung as he staggered back towards goal – and this was only 10 mins into the game! This lad used to bomb down the line, put crosses in, then be chasing back and keeping up with the fastest wingers with ease. He's only in his 20s, but looks terribly unfit, à la most of our team... and don't even mention Niasse!
Raymond Fox
206 Posted 05/04/2016 at 22:45:37
Could you point to anywhere in what Baines says that infers that he thinks it's the manager's fault that we are not performing to our potential? Please enlighten me where!

Have you ever heard of players not getting on? What about Stones asking for a transfer? What about Lukaku as good as saying he wants to go at the end of the season and play in the Champions League? Do you think that fosters team spirit?

What about Barkley, do you think he's pulling his weight? What about Lukaku who's scored a load of goals and sees our defenders letting in soft goals left right and centre? What about Lennon who's playing well and trying his heart out every game only to find himself losing or drawing games?

I think you're putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 because it agrees with your opinion.

Tony Abrahams
211 Posted 06/04/2016 at 08:33:15
Jamie, you make some very good points about life, and the modern generation, one of the reasons why so many things have gone wrong.

Jamie, thanks for the compliment mate, even if I have to disagree with you for once. I did give my kids everything, because they live for Everton, and you're right mate, I think they will remember the fantastic time we had in Nuremberg, till they breath their final breadth.

I know I will, and it's the reason I want our team, to give all the kids like my own, the joy that winning at Wembley brings!!!

Tony Abrahams
212 Posted 06/04/2016 at 08:53:13
The older I get, the more contradictions I see in everyday life.

Jamie, you are right, and I hope you get to raise that glass for Harold, Howard Kendall (who would have been 70, the day after the cup final) and every other Evertonian who has ever lived.

It's possible I might act like I'm 21 again, and I might drink for a week. if I do, the biggest glass will be for Martinez, who despite his shortcomings would have given us great happiness, even if I would hope it was his last game as Everton's manager.

How's that for a contradiction! Let's just hope Leighton Baines's comments, have made a few people look at themselves a little closer, and will hopefully stop this season petering out into nothing.

Dave Abrahams
213 Posted 06/04/2016 at 09:19:54
Tony please don't drink for a week, you are a fuckin' nuisance after five pints!!!!!
Tony Abrahams
214 Posted 06/04/2016 at 09:38:41
I'm gonna get on the train and go straight to Brighton, to see my old mate The Duke.

Martin, Dave's right, I'm going to show you how a real lunatic behaves!!!

Steve Pugh
215 Posted 06/04/2016 at 09:47:58
As everyone is talking about their dreams and desires regarding the FA Cup, here is mine.

I hope that we win the FA Cup Final, beating Palace, to avoid comparisons being made, in a devastating display of passion and drive. Then, at the end of the match, I want all the players to celebrate whilst very clearly turning their backs on the management team in a, "We won this by ignoring you" moment.

In fact, I'd quite like the post match-interview with Jags to be:–

"The lads all got together and decided that we had to win this for the fans. So we all did some proper fitness training in the evening when Martinez wasn't around and we'd get together on days off to work on strategies for corners and free kicks. I think we really wanted to show everyone exactly what this group of players could have done with a half-decent boss."

Chris Watts
216 Posted 06/04/2016 at 14:59:20
Bringinggb Pienaar back in ... Really? He looked finished when he last played.

I want to know what's wrong with our core of important players. McCarthy used to cover every blade of grass. He looked woeful on the weekend. Coleman looks half the player he was as does Baines. That mean nothing from the wing.

Lukaku looked disinterested and won nothing. Barkley had a stinker too. In any team if that number of players are putting in 5/10 performances they'll struggle. I want to know why... Can only guess fitness, a severe frustration of how the season has gone ... are we losing so many games from winning positions when playing well or lack of faith in the manager.

Paul Kossoff
217 Posted 06/04/2016 at 15:55:54
The whole sorry over paid lot of them want a good bollicking by our 'supposed' new owner, and told to shape up or ship out.

If only clubs could put it in contracts, you put 100% in every game or you will lose money, then you would soon see less of pathetic excuses by he likes of Baines.

I would, for the last few games bar the semi, drop the lot of them and play the Under-21s and make the first team watch from the stands.

Christine Foster
218 Posted 06/04/2016 at 19:17:40
I am not sure what universe some of you reside in with some of the comments in here, "true Evertonians" eh? Really? Well let me tell you, any true Evertonian wants to win every game especially if its the cup or the league. Everton winning silverware is forever, Roberto as a manager is just a point in time – forgettable like any other manager who doesn't make the grade.

The crap Baines is getting on here is disgraceful, all those with half a brain will blame the players but not realise what they are being asked to do, I have said it before and yet again, if you ask a player to play in a way that tactically is inept (great in theory, impossible in practise) or perhaps they are not capable of doing, why blame the players?? Look at the way we are set up to play and what players are being asked to do.

Tactically we play with no cover when we go forward, based on the principle that possession is king and if we score more we will always win. Cuckoo land. WE HAVEN'T GOT MESSI TO MAKE IT HAPPEN!!

Individually we have 16 good players very capable of challenging for Europe. IF they are set up to play in a way that:

1. Makes sense to them and makes use of THEIR strengths and minimises the teams weaknesses.

2. We have the capability in the right areas to play that way that can win

3. We can adapt quickly to change our style to counter the opposition.

Personally I would like to see this team with no changes playing for a different manager and a different set of tactics. Chemistry is not just about the ingredients, its about HOW you put it together and that is what Baines is talking about.

But really, those who would wish us to lose a game, any game, to get rid of the manager? If it was a player you would hound them out of the club, as a fan? Not one I would want to know...

Laurie Hartley
219 Posted 06/04/2016 at 23:53:46
Eugene (#177) – thank you for making me laugh with that link. A bright spot in a gloomy period on ToffeeWeb.

I don't know whether you intended it but for me there is a striking resemblance between the singer and our manager.

When he got to the line where he sings "There's no one home but you" I lost it completely. Laughter lifts your spirits – we should have more of it.


Dan Davies
220 Posted 07/04/2016 at 00:36:31
I haven't been on TW long, Christine, but I have to say, the longer I am, you are one of the more intelligent, knowledgeable posters, in my humble opinion.

I tend to agree with most of your posts; long may it continue. It's not rocket science, and that is what is most frustrating when assessing the current management!

Footballing basics and common sense. COYB.

Anthony Millington
221 Posted 07/04/2016 at 07:16:42
There's been no chemistry down our left side since Pienaar stopped playing. Martinez has never replaced him and we've seen the likes of Osman, Barkley, Naismith, Kone and Cleverley play there since...

It's no surprise that Baines's form has suffered as a result as there is often little or nothing infront of him. Not to mention Baines's injury having an adverse affect on his fitness.

Oliver Molloy
222 Posted 07/04/2016 at 08:28:55
Christine,

Baines sees Mata collect the ball, gives him the time to look up and pass it to a Man Utd team mate to deliver the cross for their goal. Baines is a defender, his job is to stop this and he is not very good at it. Anyone with half a brain would see that also!

We all know Baines has been a good player for us, he was better when Pienaar was in the side, but if he has to hold his hands up to don't you think?

Can I ask who would you like as our new manager?

Michael McCarthy
223 Posted 07/04/2016 at 08:44:16
No Chemistry.... Chinese and a few beers always worked for Howard!
Tony Abrahams
224 Posted 07/04/2016 at 09:27:26
Oliver, Baines is a fullback, and when the ball is on the opposite wing, he should be tucked in, in line, and covering his centre-halves. All well drilled defences do this.

Watch his position when Man Utd break. He should in my opinion be fifteen yards closer to his centre back, tucking in, and looking along the line, with his left arm up in the air shouting offside.

He doesn't because he has got no wide midfielder, who is willing to come back, and cover the left back position. Is it any wonder that Everton, are so easy to play against?

I agree that we don't stop enough crosses, but when Baines had Osman outside him against Man City, or Cleverley holding his position against Chelsea, he played much better defensively.

The problem is the system, and a manager who keeps pushing his wide left player into a more central attacking position to help Lukaku.

We had chemistry against Chelsea; it wasn't pretty, but it made us very hard to beat. Surely the basic basis for any competitive team?

Christine Foster
225 Posted 07/04/2016 at 09:29:47
Oliver, stick or twist, you can point to a hundred decisions made by every player on Sunday, do I or don't I?

Players, especially defenders, commit without thinking when they know someone has their back, if they are not confident of that then they stand off, which Baines did.

He would probably tell you the same thing but also admit he should have gone for it. He didn't and I would say that's what a loss of confidence in how a team is playing affects players decisions.

It's corrosive ....

Who would I want as next manager? Choke on this one... Rafa.. He will be available shortly.. Experienced in winning things... Not everyone's cup of tea but we could do a lot worse.

Dan Davies
227 Posted 07/04/2016 at 10:55:46
Can't agree with Rafa, Christine... Sorry – ha ha!
Peter Carpenter
228 Posted 07/04/2016 at 11:43:48
In the end, Roberto would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that he should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of his position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by his philosophy.

Hope Leighton's re-education is going well.

Steavey Buckley
229 Posted 07/04/2016 at 11:52:58
What Baines is really saying he is fed up being stranded at left back with no left wing support with only Cleverley's fleeting support; even though he can't cross first time with his left foot.
Shane Corcoran
230 Posted 07/04/2016 at 12:05:54
Fair play to you lads for having the stomach to debate Everton this season.

I'm watching the games, checking in here and busying myself elsewhere just so this season passes quickly.

Paul Andrews
232 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:07:32
Just read the article in the Guardian.

I have backed him and defended him continuously.

There is no defence for that statement.

Mark Daley
234 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:32:31
Patrick Murphy
235 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:41:23
Mark, Everton on present form may not be deemed good enough for that particular breakaway league.
Matthew Williams
236 Posted 07/04/2016 at 14:08:10
I just got back from the Footy Lab with a new look Blues Team... How about this 4-4-2 team from now on in:

Robles;
Coleman, Jagielka, Funes Mori, Galloway;
Lennon, Stones, Baines, Oviedo;
Deulofeu, Barkley.

It WOULD work... prove me wrong, then my, fellow Blues. I can't see a downside from where am sitting.

John Keating
237 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:31:35
Well well. Finally those arseholes at the Echo are writing something slightly controversial about Martinez.

If Baines had been speaking to a national journalist then the shite at the Echo would never have mentioned this, in fact it would never have happened.

Where were Prentice and O'Keefe et al during the last days of Moyes? Where have they been during the last 2 years of watching and listening to Martinez's crap?

It's a pity Martinez hasn't banned the Echo lackeys from Finch Farm and Goodison.

For years we've been asking these incompetents to ask questions we supporters have wanted asking and have got absolutely fuck all. Now, all of a sudden, they are on the receiving end and it's an issue.

Martinez lost the plot years ago – not after the Man Utd game. This nutter should have been shown the door last season. He is an embarrassment to himself and our Club.
The Echo has never questioned this charlatan until now – hypocritical tossers.

Christy Ring
238 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:50:52
Baines tells the truth, and Martinez said he apologised after being misquoted. You'd laugh, only for its so serious, It's like a chapter from George Orwell's book 'Animal Farm' (dictatorship in Russia).

Our new owner, and Martinez's closest ally Bill, have to see now, what they're dealing with, "He's in fucking cuckoo land."

Is Chris Sutton the only pundit that sees it?


David Midgley
239 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:02:11
Troy Deeny was a pundit on the BBC at the weekend. When he was asked about the Watford team, he said:

"The manager has drilled it into us, so we know where we have to play and what we have to do. It's going well."

At the beginning of the season, Watford had 20+(?) new players and a new manager. They're two places behind us. Chemistry?

Ray Jacques
240 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:06:45
Christine, I agree that players have to make many instant decisions during a game , however if they are well coached as a unit and a system is drilled into them and practised during training, then they will usually make the correct decision and if they do not then a team mate will be in position to assist.

Our defense is not well coached in a system of working together, hence the individual errors usually lead to a goal against as once a mistake is made the others don't know what to do or are in the wrong starting position to offer cover.

I also agree that Rafa would be a good choice.

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