As he has done so already this season, the England international spoke frankly with the local press on the Blues' struggles for form in the Premier League which has seen them lose three of their last four matches and see all hope of qualifying for Europe via the league evaporate.
It leaves the players and their increasingly beleaguered manager pinning their hopes for redemption on winning the FA Cup this season — although, for a growing number of supporters, that might not be enough.
Before they can think about lifting the trophy, Everton face either West Ham United or yesterday's conquerors Manchester United in the semi-final at Wembley on the 23rd and have four tough league fixtures in the space of 11 days before in which Baines admits all the players will need to earn their place.
“You are only really secure as individuals when you are winning games," the fullback told the Liverpool Echo, "but even then we will make changes from time to time with what is required tactically.”
“I don't think there is anyone expecting to have their name pencilled in for [the semi-final], but the motivation should be getting your name there.”
Motivation appeared to be sorely lacking in many of Everton's players in their dismal 1-0 defeat at Old Trafford, with only captain Phil Jagielka displaying the desire needed to try and drag Martinez's increasingly flat charges back into the match.
Like his skipper, who cut a dejected figure in his post-match interview yesterday, Baines was unable to put his finger on what exactly is going wrong in a team tipped at one stage for the top four this season but he highlighted a lack of chemistry as being a particular issue.
“I just don't feel as though the chemistry is quite there with the team on the pitch at the moment, and it hasn't been for a while," Baines explained. “We are maybe leaning too heavily on individuals to come up with something.
“We're in games, we were in the game on Sunday and had a couple of chances, but we're not performing as a team to the level we know we can or we should be.
“Results have an impact on that because chemistry and confidence go hand in hand if you start winning games. Look at the teams who are having success this year and you'd say they have chemistry.
“If I had to say one thing, I just don't know if it's there with us at the moment, for whatever reason. We try and put it right but we've not been able to. That's the third loss on the bounce in the league which is disappointing to us all.
“We want to win every time we go out to play and we'd like to go into that cup game with a few wins behind us. That's our season in some respects now. It certainly is from the fans' point of view and we've let them down a lot [so] to go on and have success in the Cup now [is] our only way of making it up to them.
"You had the travelling fans there again on Sunday and they are amazing. They follow us wherever we go and, generally, they have seen us win a few games this season but unfortunately we weren't able to give them the result or performance we wanted to."
Reader Comments (216)
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1 Posted 04/04/2016 at 17:45:49
He will get dropped next game like, but well said mate.
2 Posted 04/04/2016 at 17:50:36
There is no reason for a backlash towards Leighton, not from the supporters at any rate, he hasn't said anything that isn't true or patently obvious to most supporters.
Whether he succumbs to a recurrence of his injury and loses his place in the team is open to debate.
3 Posted 04/04/2016 at 17:54:57
4 Posted 04/04/2016 at 17:55:39
The understanding he had with Pienaar was one of our highlights over previous seasons.
5 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:00:09
6 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:01:09
I doubt there will be much if any backlash against Baines.
It's quite refreshing to hear someone at the Club, anyone at the Club, admit there's something we all know, and that is there is something far wrong.
The only way we will see a difference in the way the team play is if the senior pros change things on the pitch, if you remember we saw it last season when they reacted once the crowd got going.
It is impossible for Martinez to change and I am quite sure the senior players know the whole thing is going to rat shit and as well as the manager they will be in the firing line from supporters.
I cannot believe in this day and age players cannot affect the playing style if they see it's going to shit.
Good on Baines. I just wish more players would speak up and am more disappointed it didn't happen at the beginning of this clowns second season when everyone and his dog could see we were in big trouble with Martinez's regime
7 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:08:09
8 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:12:16
So have we thrown all our eggs in one basket and fuck the league results because we're safe anyway? Well that's a dangerous game to play. We've got tough games before the semi which, by the way, is 3 weeks away, yet our players are talking about it now. It seems the players are only looking to the cup game and nothing else if the last 2 performances are anything to go by. And there's a little matter of a derby at our bogey ground and, God, am I dreading that.
I personally think we haven't a prayer in the semi no matter who we get. United have beat us twice without breaking sweat and West Ham have taken 4 pts of us and when was the last time we said that? I'm personally not holding much hope against either and if we were to get through I could see Palace or Watford bullying us to defeat in the final.
This season, like last, has been another disaster and that's down to one stubborn man. Unfortunately we've got him for the long run.
9 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:16:51
Easy to say, but maybe hard to put it right on the park yesterday.. Whatever is going on, I wish they put the transfer thoughts and thoughts about the season away and play together as a real team from now on.
10 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:19:17
11 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:20:11
12 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:20:24
Yes, performances have been poor. Its a pity so many of his senior / best players made so many crucial errors earlier in the season which cost us loads of points when the morale was quite high.
Morale / chemistry has since fallen and Martinez is having to deal with the brunt of recent poor results.
Howard, Coleman, Jagielka, Stones, Funes Mori, Baines, Barry, McCarthy, Barkley, Lukaku have all been guilty of massive errors or extremely poor performances, every single one of them!
13 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:28:18
14 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:29:30
Your list of those responsible for errors is correct, however, the biggest culprit is not on your list. In fact, the way your post is worded it implies the poor manager is having to deal with the players mistakes.
Maybe it is just the way you have worded your post, Kelvin, The players have made mistakes at various times but Martinez has continually made mistakes and more importantly, not rectified them.
15 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:30:05
16 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:35:13
17 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:36:33
The clear evidence for me is the total focus on the possession of the ball. Only a fraction of a player's time on the pitch involves the ball. There is no shape or off the ball movement with any coordination. No wonder the players look totally lost on the pitch.
Good teams consist of players who are drilled in training into knowing exactly where they need to be at any given time. You can see the hesitation in our players who have to think things through all the time and waste split seconds rather than being tightly drilled as a unit.
Completely basic things that have been neglected totally understand these incompetent clowns, totally out of their depth.
18 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:39:48
Against Watford why not try:
Subs: Robles, Jagielka, McCarthy, Pienaar, Baines, Lukaku, Kone
What have we got to lose? Not much, IMO.
19 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:40:33
I personally feel that the players on the whole have also been poor, just as poor as the manager's decisions at times.
The first third of the season was one error after the other, from our top top players! Are they that good, John?
It's been a car crash of a season. Then again, we could still win the FA Cup!
22 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:50:23
Look at Leicester this season. More or less the same players who flirted with relegation last season. They have a good coach that knows their limitations and plays to their strengths. They are well organised right through the team and give 100% every game.
The same can be said of Spurs and West Ham. In fact, considering the players we have probably only Man City are underachieving more than us.
Winning the Cup should not give Martinez additional time at our Club. The guy is a loser and taking us down to his level. Unless players like Baines speak up, they will be classed as losers too. I can't believe good solid professionals want to be associated with shit football week after week and getting reputations for failures.
23 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:54:05
24 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:56:03
That BBC pisses me right off, we get no credit off them whatsoever as a club. Then we have Kilbane saying we made no chances, again we didn't make many, but Jags smacked the crossbar and had another decent chance from close range, Rom had two half-chances, does the presenter contradict Kilbane, no! How many chances did Man Utd have?
I'll tell you what I think: the players want to get their fingers out. Barkley's useless when the opposition have the ball, he wants dropping for a certainty. Coleman was caught daydreaming again, pathetic defending not for the first time, drop him too. Baines is not a lot better in defence.
We are a team of individuals, not a team; it's about time most of them broke sweat and proved they are a good team together. It's time to drop 3 or 4 of them.
26 Posted 04/04/2016 at 18:59:52
Well done, Baines, for speaking up. I still think we'll win the cup. Seemed to play a lot different than the league.
Kelvin, what do you mean that there's something in the air? I really don't think they'll be any change in management before the end of the season.
27 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:01:59
I didn't see the game yesterday but listened on 5Live. Alan Green was shocked that Barkley lost a sprint to Juan Mata. I was not! As for Baines and Coleman, how about actually stopping a cross once in a blue moon? You never know... it might actually prevent a goal.
28 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:07:09
That Palace game could easily have been one of this season's home nightmares so similar, and a sign of things to come.
That was almost exactly 2 years ago. Things have not changed and, if we're honest, we are even worse now. That was the beginning of the end. It's been 2 years of much of the same ever since.
29 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:07:54
30 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:09:45
31 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:14:30
As usual with judging the game on its own merits, it could be argued that Everton did indeed deserve a point but that would be down more to how our opponents performed rather than how Everton functioned. Of course we all wanted Everton to win the game and come home with the three points and it's always disappointing when that doesn't happen.
However, this was the game which due to Roberto's proclamations following the Arsenal defeat which was to see the players fighting for their first-team places. In the first half, there was a slight improvement on the Arsenal performance, but most of what the team did caused Man Utd no real concerns and they contained Everton as much as Everton contained them.
The second half also started not too badly, but once Man Utd took the lead, Everton fell apart. Yes, they tried, but there was no shape, no real desire to get behind the home defence and only a five-minute flurry gave us as fans any hope that we would take something out of the game.
I've seen poorer Everton teams giving Man Utd a game on their own midden only to succumb late on and lose or draw, but yesterday we were never in charge of the game, we had plenty of possession but looked bereft of ideas for most of the match and at no time during the game did I think we would or could win.
I also agree that one or two players should be dropped, and that includes the likes of Barkley who can be a good player but is going through a rough patch. Having said that, how many 22-year-old players are charged with being the fulcrum of their teams in the Premier League? It's unfair to ask him to play that role and it's started to affect his confidence.
Personally I would have drafted in one of the young boys and dropped Lukaku following his billy big bollocks remarks during the week, but that would have been a difficult decision for any manager to make, never mind one who is under pressure.
Man Utd may well be 5th in the Premier League, but they are not a great deal better than Everton, apart from the fact that they look organised and willing to run about and probably had more inexperienced players on show than did Everton, which puts into perspective the result from Everton's point of view.
32 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:15:16
33 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:18:52
The players don't look happy, the manager is lost in his own phenomenal world, the fans are far from happy. This is Bad. Roll on next season.
Sort it out Everton please!
34 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:19:01
Sounds innocuous but it is quite a damning statement really. Baines is such an honest lad, on and off the pitch and honesty is much needed at the moment. Martinez would rather convince himself of his own spurious analysis. I hope there is no recrimination.
35 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:24:42
36 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:32:33
"I really like you, especially the brown shoes and the way you cross your arms and look meaningfully into the distance, but the chemistry just isn't there. I have really tried but I can't understand a word you say, it's meaningless gobbledygook.
"Like last night when you took me for the meal. Now I thought it was rubbish but you kept saying it was phenomenal and I didn't understand the combinations and the technical aspects and how it was made by a very young chef on the verge of creating something 'very, very special'. It was fish, chips and peas for fucks sake!
"Anyway, I have talked it over with my friends and we will have to call it a day so goodbye, I know you will find someone new they just wont be as good as me."
37 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:32:52
38 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:34:55
39 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:36:02
40 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:37:49
I was in awe of Martinez in press conferences as they always last 15-20 minutes compared to the give nothing away, look fed up, look cheesed off, why are you asking me that question 2-3 minutes we got from David Moyes. So Martinez has always been a politician talker.
But there is no doubt in my mind that the players will come on websites like ToffeeWeb and read day after day what all the fans think of Everton and Martinez, as I know I would, and I can imagine the things that Baines has said mirrors very much what we have all been saying for a long long time.
Giving Martinez more time beyond the FA Cup would be madness and although he might sign a lot of decent players with Moshiri's millions, what would be the point?
The laughable thing here is, if our front three were Messi, Suarez & Aguero and our midfielders were Bale, Iniesta & Ronaldo, we would still lose games 11-12 or 20-21, and it will be the tea lady's fault. He simply doesn't like defenders.
41 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:41:43
Barkley is the biggest disappointment to me, he just doesn't put enough effort into games when it comes to defending. I thought he was poor in England's last game and again in this match, he's not going to get picked for the Euros unless he bucks his ideas up.
We keep hearing we are a good team, they want to start proving it.
42 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:42:28
It is up to any leader to work out how to make a team tick and keep it ticking, it is not about simply having the best individuals, whilst it helps it takes a lot more.
He may deserve some credit for assembling some talent, but he does not understand why things work and why they go wrong. Therefore he has not got a flaming clue what to do.. It is all out of his control only because he has not a clue what to do...
I see this in projects and in companies I work for again and again. One or two successes followed by abject failure and decline, all because they never really understood what they did right originally.
I would get rid of him ASAP.
43 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:42:36
Although I'm still annoyed that he let Raul Meireles drive past him at Anfield, we should have won that derby, Beckfords goal was sublime.
44 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:45:25
Then Martinez came in and clipped their wings in favour of natural wingers, and they have never been the same since. Why change something that wasn't broken and potentially our biggest assets at the time?
45 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:49:18
46 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:50:19
Without trying to read too much into his comments, it is interesting that he identifies a lack of chemistry as a probable cause for the current malaise. Considering this is a fairly tightknit group many of whom have played together for several years, you wouldn't think player chemistry to be at the top of the list of problems. However, it is abundantly clear week in and out that the players are not on the same page (or even reading from the same book in some cases).
I can't imagine it's pleasant in that looker room these days and I don't expect it will improve anytime soon.
47 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:50:47
48 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:52:21
For all of our 'best squad in a generation' talk, I do have to disagree with the line 'I don't think there is anyone expecting to have their name pencilled in for [the semi-final]'
Barring injury/suspension at least 6-7 names are guaranteed to be in the starting XI. Likes of Lukaku, Coleman, Barry, McCarthy, Barkley, Jags will 100% be in. Probably also Baines, Lennon and Stones (if he doesn't make stupid mistakes before). Martinez may decide to give Howard a send off but would be hugely unfair to Robles so would think Robles also starts.
Not exactly that many players really having to be worried about making the final then way I see it only one attacking midfield spot is really open. So much for the lauded competition for places...
49 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:55:29
I'd completely base the next line-up on which players have actually shown effort, grit, and determination lately. If they've not or suffered lapses of concentration, bench them and send a message. Put the players / kids out who will play at 100%, 100% of the time.
Sunday's game can't be replicated and it's imperative a message is sent as such.
Stones, Jagielka, Funes Mori, Galloway;
Lennon, Cleverley, Deulofeu;
Bench due to shite effort / head in ass recently:
Lukaku, McCarthy (pains me to write that one...), Seamus, Baines, Barkley, Howard, pick another player...
Niasse isn't 100% so why he's making the bench is a mystery, plus he's looked total shite so give Henen a shot nothing to lose. Kone is just a total waste of space.
Discounting Kone and Niasse shows how we are really screwed if Lukaku leaves this summer. That's one position we'd better break the bank on if Rom is out the door. He still should be benched in my opinion as he needs a rocket fired up his ass to re-motivate and re-focus him.
There's a rot in the team. It needs to be carved out.
50 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:56:36
Every player that's spoken out against Martinez has been dropped, sold or just disappeared from the squad. If Baines is dropped on Saturday then we'll know what really going on.
When your senior players like Leighton Baines start speaking out, then you are in deep shit, plus watch Jagielka's interview after the match he looks like a broken man.
One thing is going to happen this summer, either Martinez goes or half the team will be off. If Martinez stays, then we are the next Aston Villa.
51 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:58:35
I applaud Baines, Jags and any other player who NOW goes public in the same way. Together, repeat, together, these sort of players can soon free the club we all love from the ineptitude that is in our midst in the shape of Martinez and his "team" of "coaches".
Mr Moshiri, please get a grip NOW.
52 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:58:41
53 Posted 04/04/2016 at 19:59:14
Lukaku aside, and possibly Funes Mori and Lennon every one else he's bought stinks the gaffe out. Especially McCarthy who in my opinion is utter shit on a par with Gareth Farrelly, Claus Thomsen and Alex Nyarko. The rest of them are mediocre at best. Deulofeu has potential but needs to get fit.
54 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:00:25
The manager said, "Yes I'll take your points onboard and adjust accordingly" and Watford's results made an up turn.
Come on, Roberto, please change or you will be gone.
55 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:00:38
Against Man Utd yesterday, Lennon who has been impressive on the right wing, was supporting Lukaku. We had no-one on the left-wing. Barkley who is our best attacking midfielder, was playing in a deep defensive role. The players were totally lost.
56 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:09:05
Anyone remember the chemical formula for shit from school days in the lab?
57 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:19:34
Had to read your post twice, but your point is spot on.
58 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:19:34
59 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:20:29
Hopefully this is a start of some basic square bashing and team building this squad needs, but who bets that El Bob will conjure up further dilutions?
60 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:25:46
If Martinez remains at Everton, what defender would look back on their personal stats from the past and think "Yes, we finished 4th but the defence I was part of let in 73 goals." Not many I would think.
61 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:31:15
Frankly, any one reading your posts having only witnessed one off games would, quite rightly, see you as being totally reasonable. I just think there is something fundamentally wrong when it is always bad luck, when the fraudster who coaches our team is never, ever wrong.
If Martinez was sacked tomorrow I believe we would win the cup. I think there would be a new spirit and an exciting end to the season. Who could not look at that arms folded, curled up, bewildered, specimen on the touch line and not wish for his humiliation to end. Sacking him would be an act of kindness.
62 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:32:03
Then bring in a class manager that might persuade players to stay. If we win the FA Cup I don't want Martinez getting the credit.
63 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:49:44
When you have got loads of fans posting that they couldn't even get angry, watching Everton, yesterday, then change just needs to happen quickly.
I wasn't that bothered myself yesterday, if I'm being honest, but it fills me with pain to see Martinez, still in charge of Everton, because we are going backwards, and the man just refuses to acknowledge it.
64 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:51:22
We need that cup.
65 Posted 04/04/2016 at 20:57:20
66 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:05:23
Him, Pienaar and Ossy. Proper footy players. True blues. They owe us nothing. They are pure class...
Hope all three will be retained as coaches and manage efc.
67 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:07:58
Can someone explain to me who these 739 people are and what it is they can see that I seem to be missing? Or is it that Roberto has multiple ToffeeWeb accounts (like he has TVs in his lounge at home) enabling him to vote numerous times?
68 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:14:26
69 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:21:09
Everton experience a meteoric climb up the table with win after win after win. During this rocket-like ascendency we witness the catastrophic collapse of Spurs, Arsenal, Man City, Man Utd, Hammers and, just for fun, the RS.
8 x 3 points + 38 = 62, top four! Tada!!!
Has anyone seen my meds?
70 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:24:47
We might fall into bottom 5 sooner rather than later if we lose to both Watford and Palace (who is also in a shittier situation than us and might be more desperate to turn things around). How long more can he wear BK's rose-tinted glasses and not have buyer's remorse when he reads the news?
71 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:54:48
I don't give two fiddler's farts what's going on at present within the Club. If these players and this manager can't pull it together for only two fucking games and finally win some silverware then they should all do one.
There's way, way too many diehard fans out there who have been starved for a trophy. Honestly, folks like myself who've come on board for the last few years don't matter. It's the fans who've been for SO long without success that deserve it! The men (and women) who post on TW with 20, 30, 40 years of being a Blue who have stuck by, loyal through thick and thin.
With the current climate I don't like our chances. But if somehow we can lift the FA Cup I'm toasting Harold Matthews (RIP) and all the Blues 60 years old and up who just fucking deserve it.
Per Mr. Hind - we need that Cup. We really do.
72 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:54:58
I have just laughed for the first time today. Cheers.
73 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:55:41
The dressing room is in disarray, no way back for any manager once senior pro's start indirectly criticising team ethos. The only thing that matters now is the Cup, show him the door if it gives us a better chance of bringing home some silverware.
74 Posted 04/04/2016 at 21:55:49
It's a fucking shambles... or, as some gobby yank I used to sit next to at work would say, a total cluster-fuck.
75 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:03:16
76 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:10:46
77 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:15:55
Players going public could be seen as a cry for help.
Baines is not just a player but an Everton fan. Does anyone know how season ticket sales are going? Are fans waiting to see what happens? I don't think the fans thoughts will ever be taken into account at board room level. However if the players and fans are unhappy then both can't be wrong.
78 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:20:11
Had Baines did his job on Sunday afternoon, Man Utd would not have scored...
Everything's going wrong at the club, and slowly everyone is / are now looking after Number One watch and see!
79 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:27:18
Is "Bullshit Bob" a reference to yourself? Because your post does come across as quite vindictive.
80 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:30:35
81 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:32:01
Nice nod to Harold Matthews fair play...
It's amazing what this manager has done to people on here.
Everybody I know thinks he's completely deluded and slowly the football world is even turning against him.
I don't agree with us even being in with a chance of winning the cup been here before a few times.
83 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:44:14
Baines has a habit of performing some kind of weird curtsy to stop shots and crosses and Martinez pointed this out. He dropped him for a fair while after that.
Baines has spoken out for sure as his thoughts on Martinez are clear and he has nothing to lose. Chances of Baines and Martinez being there next season? Slim.
85 Posted 04/04/2016 at 22:45:21
he other bloke reckons that a cup win would give Roberto some breathing space. I wonder if Niasse will get a few tricky fans tomorrow at Everton Two?
86 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:08:16
That story about Baines at Man City is more than "very strong news from inside" trust me.
87 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:11:17
Hate to think that argument occurred.
88 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:12:39
89 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:14:22
We should have enough points to avoid a relegation battle but seem to be in free fall and it is a matter of huge concern that Baines is saying there is no team spirit. This reflects what many have thought for a while now and certainly the last two games have been appalling with no great effort made by most of the players.
Baines himself is hardly blameless he seems to have lost even his ability to put in a decent cross and it looks to me like he and Peanuts made each other and neither is half the player on his own.
However this is about the entire squad not any one player and a close look at our league position, home record and standard of performance especially since Christmas must surely tell everyone that things have to change and quickly. A cup win cannot disguise an inability to pick the right team and motivate it for routine league games.
The managers tactics are bizarre and the fitness levels are a concern:
Why is Geri knackered after an hour?
Why is Niasse not yet even two-thirds fit?
Why are we out-manned in midfield so often?
Why does no-one take the initiative and sort teammates out on the pitch?
Why does no-one stamp their authority on a game?
Why is their such a lack of involvement during the game from the management team (look at how involved Klopp gets)?
Why do we not get support to Lukaku?
Why do we not get attacking subs on earlier than 5 mins from time?
Why do we not try all subs when we are losing and playing badly?
Why do we spend ?13.5m on a striker and not play him as a striker so he has a chance to show why we bought him... so many questions and, like him as I do, I cannot follow what Roberto is trying to do.
Someone posted a while ago that he has no track record at all when you look at whether he can win consistently in the top division and having resisted the idea for a long time that he will not find the secret I am now of the view that he will have to go, and quickly.
Villa have shown how quickly the rot can set in; okay, they had to sell their better players but once the rot starts it can be difficult to stop it and there are plenty of signs now that the rot is setting in. Two seasons and a point off 15th place is surely an indication that he isn't getting anywhere and we must ignore the cup. History is littered with teams getting to Wembley and getting relegated, Wigan of course a prime example.
No one likes to see a man given the sack we wouldn't like it if it happened to us and Roberto seems a decent bloke but we support our club not the bloke who picks the team. Our club is not performing on the pitch, some of our players don't look fit, Baines intimates there is no team spirit, the defence is awful as a unit and the midfield has no guts and falls apart without the admirable 35-year-old Gareth Barry.
Something decisive surely has to be done as Moshiri cannot build the club from the championship.
90 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:19:36
Martinez has stood firm and said nobodies leaving, that can't help team spirit, plus the teams getting criticised from left right and centre because we can't seem to put a run together especially at home.
Baines has been poor for a while so I don't think he's blame free, defence was never his strong point and even his corners have been crap. It's not asking a lot for an International to hit a corner into the goalmouth at a decent height occasionally, my wife could have shaped better.
I've already criticised Barkley's non-existent defensive qualities, plus when the ball is crossed in the air into our box our defensive players have shaped most of the time like a bunch of girls.
Who apart from Lukaku and Lennon have consistently individually played well this season and indeed last season.
Funes Mori has been decent most of the time, McCarthy and Barry can't be faulted for effort but have no flair, Stones is good most of the time going forward but is fallible in defence.
Howard has given plenty of points away also.
Now you can pin all the blame on Martinez, but the players are the ones who's taking to the field and are being paid ridiculous amounts to perform well consistently.
They haven't been able to do that for whatever reason, none of us know what has/is being said behind the scenes by Martinez or what the players say between themselves, if we did we would have a much better idea who to point the finger at.
As it is, I wouldn't expect all concerned with our club to be happy campers until we start getting results.
91 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:27:07
Whether fairly or not, he is the man in charge, he chooses the tactics and he sends the best players available to him to do a job for him, they are not doing that job and if they are then God help us.
92 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:29:37
I agree it is worrying.....
If the club persist with Martinez, we will be Newcastle, Sunderland or Villa next season I firmly believe that.
93 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:34:16
Media personalities aside, the point is that there is now the beginnings of a significant exposure in the media of the horrible truth created by Martinez. I've contacted Rory Smith on Facebook to politely put him right. I suggest others do the same.
The many of us who want rid of the prat asap may just be on a roll.
94 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:39:14
If that "very strong news" (translation: unsubstantiated rumour) is true then good on him and I hope he applies the same consistency to Stones, Coleman et all who often do the same.
95 Posted 04/04/2016 at 23:51:39
Martinez has broken that team spirit and it shows. In his first season it was still there and games like the Man Utd win at Old Trafford were a clear example of it. When he doesn't have a 'team' it's going to be easier for him to lose the dressing room. Which there looks like signs of that happening already.
96 Posted 04/04/2016 at 00:03:48
They can start to rescue their own reputations with a few decent performances against teams below us in the league starting with Watford on Saturday and then win the all important semi final. If they don't they will merit no more than a footnote in our club's history.
97 Posted 05/04/2016 at 00:21:29
So, who put the team together? who takes responsibility for the tactics they are being told to play? Or where they play? Whose responsibility is it to forge a team?? Being a nice guy doesn't do it, being a prat doesn't do it, being honest, listening and motivating does, good tactics and good use of players contribute to self belief, success.
With no self-belief in what they are being asked to do, it's over. Finished. Period. End of. Done. Trying to make it work now is a painful waste of time. What is at risk is not the fickle fan, it is the clubs reputation in the Premier League, it is the future of the stars we have, it is our future in the Premier League.
Can it be fixed? Yes it can but not with the same set of players or the same manager. The relationship of trust and belief is over.
It was a great experiment, but we never got around the course, like a horse without a rider in the Grand National, it still jumps over the fences but the rider is in the taxi.
99 Posted 05/04/2016 at 00:47:45
Coleman & Baines.
Funes Mori & Stones (or Jagielka)
McCarthy & Besic. (or Barry plus a new signing would be nice)
Deulofeu, Barkley, Lennon (or Niasse & a new signing to replace Naismith and Mirallas)
Rom (or his replacement)
A decent manager would get chemistry from that team.
A new manager could get that team to make Goodison a place to be feared again.
A new manager is a must.
100 Posted 05/04/2016 at 00:52:56
Readers of this media thread will have to judge for themselves. Stones has been dropped as we all know and I think Coleman may have suffered the same fate had adequate cover been available.
101 Posted 05/04/2016 at 01:15:22
Phil Jagielka, you had a great game yesterday, proving you're captaincy by example, you strove throughout the game and you were very brave. Now be braver still and come out and support your teammate and agree with him that something needs changing at Goodison Park.
I don't care if Baines is good, bad or indifferent at the moment but is seeing the situation as most of us see it, the manager is providing little or no motivation to the team, so the captain and the players have got to take over and play the game as they see fit. They took over last season and played the game that took us to safety in the last few games of the season.
Start playing the game that suits the players, the way that you all feel comfortable playing, in the position that suits you. The philosophy of the manager has bored us fucking stiff; go out and enjoy playing the game, it has got to be better than the way Martinez wants you to play. Play at least the way you played against Chelsea in the FA Cup you all looked like you fucking cared and wanted to win the game. Come on, you are much better than the way you have all played the last two games, you were shite and you know you were.
103 Posted 05/04/2016 at 01:34:14
Baines is one of the best professionals I have EVER seen at Everton and I first visited Goodison way back in 1965. I would like to think that the wonderful, educated Everton fans that I am familiar with would recognise this and give him the respect he deserves. If every player in this squad had Leighton's heart, brain and ethics we would be top of the league.
104 Posted 05/04/2016 at 02:45:25
105 Posted 05/04/2016 at 04:37:37
107 Posted 05/04/2016 at 06:41:37
Martinez doesn't seem to have any problems putting a run together from where I sit. We're on a run of defeat after defeat after defeat right now.
108 Posted 05/04/2016 at 06:55:54
Thank God he's had the guts to openly say what the rest of us know. This was a thinly disguised way of saying that morale is at rock bottom, the team is uninspired and leaderless and have lost faith in the manager and his tactics.
I don't really blame the players who have to follow the manager's instructions or risk losing their place in the team, (Distin, Eto'o etc.)
As Dave and Andy have said, if only Jags would back him up we just might see a player backlash that will force Martinez out preferably or at least to change his tactics to allow players the freedom to do the things they do best. I get the distinct feeling that a Chelsea-like situation is brewing where player power could force the board into taking action to rid us of the worst manager I have seen in 57 years of supporting the club.
No player enjoys losing no matter what level they are playing at and the way Martinez sets his,team up to play is having a completely demoralising effect on the whole squad. Add to that his virtually unfathomable substitutions, lack of pitchside leadership and inane excuses and pathetically unrealistic positivity as the ship sinks around him and the players must wonder if they've all been teleported to a parallel universe where crap is good and lunatics are placed firmly in charge of the asylums.
Martinez should be sacked right now, not at the end of the season or after the cup run or whatever, but RIGHT NOW before he damages the team beyond repair.
109 Posted 05/04/2016 at 07:24:11
If we win the cup then you'll get your wish. Bit odd that you would then want the manager sacked.
110 Posted 05/04/2016 at 08:48:36
It's obvious something is wrong, and if one of the most senior players is saying their is no chemistry in the squad, then it is time for change.
Oliver says that he thinks people are just starting to look after themselves after this comment, but I think Baines is fuming at the way the team is being allowed to be run.
No chemistry equates to no real team spirit, which is the most damaging thing you can have in a team sport.
We won't win the cup, if this isn't sorted out right now.
111 Posted 05/04/2016 at 08:57:13
I think a few would settle for a bottom half finish and win a cup IF the bottom half finish was a sort of one off. However, I think this is different in that many people see a bottom half finish and possibly worse as being the norm under this guy.
Winning the cup would be great but getting rid of this loser would be like winning the cup!
112 Posted 05/04/2016 at 09:23:03
There is still plenty of life left in Leighton, as there is in most of the players,the manager is draining the life out them and is depressing most Evertonians I know.
113 Posted 05/04/2016 at 09:30:53
With a different manager I do believe the current crop could have been top 4. 20 years we have complained that we didn't have a 20-goal man. Now we have him and boy have we wasted it.
I like Lukaku and would hate to lose him, but often he is poorly used with no support. The team try and walk the ball into the box and we never seem to break quickly.
I agree with others in that the new regime have to think big if we are to reposition ourselves as a major challenger. City did and they have always been pants. I still remember when City went for Robinho and everyone whent WTF, they got him though and have never looked back. Time to think big and refresh our ambition. NSNO
114 Posted 05/04/2016 at 09:36:21
“I just don't feel as though the chemistry is quite there with the team on the pitch at the moment, and it hasn't been for a while," Baines explained. “We are maybe leaning too heavily on individuals to come up with something."
I have just watched the replay. Three incidents during the game sum up what Leighton Baines is on about:-
1. Phil Jagielka brushes aside his marker at a corner and throws himself at the ball and hits the crossbar with a thunderous header.
2. Phil Jagielka brushes off his marker at another corner and gets a shot in - De Gea prevents a certain goal with a very good reflex save.
3. Phil Jagielka from yet another corner goes for a header at the near post under pressure from a United defender; both miss it but the ball drops in yards of space on the edge of the six yard box. Phil Jagielka gets off the deck and tears strips off Lukaku who should have seized on that opportunity but is standing like a statue next to his marker.
I don't think I have ever seen our Captain that animated. The veins on his forehead and the side of his neck were popping out because he was that angry with his teammate's lack of effort.
The same "teammate" by the way that has just come back from the international break during which time he more or less announced to the football world that he wants a transfer away from the club that paid £28M for him when no one else was prepared to take the punt.
It is no surprise to me that the chemistry isn't there.
Footnote: Niasse may well turn out to be rubbish but I will wait to see him play a few times before I make up my mind. I did however notice that during the short time he was on the pitch he won a heading duel with one of the United defenders.
115 Posted 05/04/2016 at 09:39:33
As for Coleman and Baines they are pale shadows of their former selves under Moyes, so are not the same attacking threat they once were. So you could say, from an attacking prospective, Everton were not firing on one cylinder on Sunday.
I do believe is now a case of the Everton manager not being able to motivate the team anymore....must be nearing the end of his tenure.
116 Posted 05/04/2016 at 10:14:25
What bemuses me is this our manager starts with two recognised wingers Lennon and Deulofeu. That was promising. I think it was Jay Wood who said on the pre match thread that we would need width in this game.
Deulofeu on the right and Lennon on the left made sense to me so I was totally astounded to see Lennon operating more or less in the middle of the pitch for most of the game instead of hugging the left wing. If Lennon had been told hug the line he is enough of a professional to have followed instructions so I can only conclude the manager told him to come inside off the wing.
In a post match interview Van Gaal stated he noticed "there was was a lot of space on the right wing" and very pleased with his young sub Fusu-Mensah on following his instructions to exploit that space.
117 Posted 05/04/2016 at 10:16:42
Lennon has been keeping Gerry out, so he brings Dela, back in but moves Lennon, out of a position he has been doing well in.
Cleverley, is not a left winger, but besides Osman, he his the only player who has brought balance to our left side this season.
Those players were thrown together, with no real thought, in how to get the best out of them as a COLLECTIVE UNIT. It's all about opinions, but I'm sure loads of the crowd, could have got more out of those same players, with a bit more thought and some organisation.
118 Posted 05/04/2016 at 11:37:39
119 Posted 05/04/2016 at 11:44:16
We have always been very patient with our managers and I don't think this will change. To me, the cup is a nice to have, I value more us beating teams week upon week. Martinez isn't capable of achieving this, so I want him gone.
120 Posted 05/04/2016 at 11:59:21
He's playing and scoring consistently for the Under-21s this lad has abundant skill. Surely it couldn't do any harm. He's the future of our great club.
121 Posted 05/04/2016 at 12:42:31
We watch Demi Alli and Harry Kane, these two are no better than Barkley and Lukaku but their chemistry or call it understanding with each other is a million miles ahead of Barkley and Lukaku.
122 Posted 05/04/2016 at 12:42:37
Worst possible scenario for our club is us winning the cup with this clown at the helm. It will guarantee him at least another season, and a mass exodus of our best players in the summer.
I dream of Mourinho taking over our club. He isn't nailed on at Man Utd yet so why don't we go and beg him? The Man Utd job is a harder job unquestionably because I think we have a better squad than they do. Man Utd need major surgery, and imo we don't.
124 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:01:26
125 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:07:31
'I am all for us losing every game between now and the end of the season. And I include the semi final and even final in that if we get there.'
So there you have it, an 'Evertonian' who would be gutted if we won the FA Cup final.
Who, on seeing Jags lift the trophy, would (presumably) have his head in his hand and be mumbling 'no, no, NO!!'
Or conversely, after 89 mins of a final against Watford/Palace, with the score at 0-0, would leap out of his seat with joy should Everton concede.
You know who else would love us to lose every game and the cup?
Every kopite I know.
Get a fucking grip!
126 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:11:02
Motivate them, they shouldn't need motivating. Their playing at Old Trafford for starters, some are playing for a place in the Euro Comp. in the summer, plus they have been getting slaughtered by all and sundry because of the results. Add to the list getting paid a kings ransom every week, self pride would make me give my all.
Any player not giving 100% in every game should be dropped straight away, regardless of who we have as a replacement.
I'd start with Barkley.
127 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:13:32
Winning the FA cup is important for the more "trophy hunting" fans (e.g., Kopites), the future good of the club is for the benefit of all present and future Evertonians. Come on, Eugene who are the Kopites? The Trophy Hunters or those who look towards the long term good?
128 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:13:38
For Baines to say what he has I really think that there is something very wrong in the background. Could be the Tactical Setup? Playing with No left winger for that last seasons when we have Mirallas and Pienaar at the club must leave the players bewildered.
People slate Kevin, But before Martinez Came he was probably the best forward at the club and that was from playing down the left.
Martinez has been hiding behind the fact the club is in two semi-finials since 1984. From his comments, I really do think that he thinks history is going to repeat its self. We are going to win the FA Cup and go on to dominate Europe and the premier league. The experienced players will have seen through this BS, by the sounds Of Jags and Now Baines (Also Pienaar) who are longest serving players they have had enough.
129 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:14:39
Laurie Hartley (#106). I think you've hit the nail on the head. Honest pros like Jags and Baines must get heartily sick of reading about Lukaku and his ambitions for Champions League and 'big clubs' etc, and see the little effort he puts in a lot of games. He is not alone in having ambitions that far outweigh his ability.
There's something completely wrong at the core of our squad and I'm afraid dropping the die-hards like Jags and Baines is the last thing we should do to turn it round. Martinez simply cannot cope at this level.
130 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:24:17
Bainsey is the latest to do that but as some have pointed out many of us knew the problems anyway and have done since before Christmas.
Martinez knows the problems also but does not have what it takes to change things. What, I ask was the reason for bringing in Niasse? Martinez remarks that he is not yet fully fit. Is that not a damning indictment of Martinez?
If ever a manager needed sacking it's this one and I believe he would have gone by now if they were any closer to the drop zone.
131 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:26:09
Yes, his delivery is dreadfully poor at times and, as much as I admire Pienaar, he is a busted flush.
I just can't help thinking that a return to basics would see the best of him again. It has also struck me that this description could easily apply to most of our team at the moment. The manager is very definitely responsible for this state of affairs and needs to be shown the door now.
132 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:28:26
It's a real shame, as I've got a lot of time for him as a bloke and as a football person (in terms of the way he wants the game to be played), but time's up, I'm afraid. Leighton's comments are the icing on the cake
133 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:34:01
However, those people hoping and wishing that Everton lose any game of football at any time for any reason are not in my mind true Evertonians and the editors should remove such posts as they truly are embarrassing for the club, its supporters and the site.
134 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:34:18
Pleased that Baines is letting his feelings known, and very diplomatic too!
135 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:40:04
136 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:46:08
The dipstick who said we were embarrassing was "Neil Steele" who after the thread has never been seen since.
I appreciate what you are saying but you have to remember that lads who have supported this Club since before they could speak live and breath it. We see charlatans like Martinez who would be better being a politician than a manager come to us and cause mayhem, after which they take the £3 million payoff and piss off elsewhere.
I do not agree with folk wishing us to lose but I can understand it in the context of the impossible situation we find ourselves. We are all supporters of this great club and as such we have to see and understand how different lads react.
Posters who say things like that are back supporting the lads next week. The charlatans just piss off. I hope your request to remove posts, in this instance, is not forthcoming.
137 Posted 05/04/2016 at 13:46:11
Seems a bit strange to me and remember that all managers lose their jobs because they lose games, all we say is that instead of suffering losing a lot over a long period before the chairman acts, just compress the time frame.
As a true Evertonian I'd gladly and proudly watch Everton lose if it would guarantee Kenwright reaching the decision to get rid of Martinez.
138 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:00:45
I will be going and roaring my head off, as in the Chelsea game, I'm paying through the fucking nose for the privilege of going down there, so I expect the players to run their plums off and let me come home happy, for once.
Lose? Those bastard players.... Don't even think about it!!!!.
139 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:02:08
Win FA Cup = Martinez staying and Lukaku, Stones etc going, as well as having to put up with the same old shite he spouts.
Losing every game = he's sacked and we hopefully get a renowned coach who knows his arse from his elbow.
Sorry but it's a no-brainer for me. FA Cup means fuck all with him at the helm taking us only one way: DOWN!
140 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:09:59
No don't remove their posts, let everyone see and remember the names.
Let everyone see that there are 'Evertonians' praying we lose every game left in the season, including the semi-final and/or final of the FA Cup, because they have decided this would be the catalyst for the removal of Martinez.
Martin Mason - 127.
'I personally agree with Neil, not winning the Cup and having a competent coach for the new season would be a massive win for the club. Winning the FA cup is important for the more "trophy hunting" fans (e.g., Kopites), the future good of the club is for the benefit of all present and future Evertonians. Come on Eugene who are the Kopites? the Trophy Hunters or those who look towards the long term good?'
Well...I've read your opinions on BK and our board over the years so of course you agree.
Of course you think losing the FA Cup would be a massive win.
And of course you think clubs and supporters wanting to win trophies is somehow 'iffy.'
I mean it's hardly likely that you're suddenly going to develop insight or start posting informed opinion.
And just to show how lacking in insight, you proudly tell the world...
'As a true Evertonian I'd gladly and proudly watch Everton lose if it would guarantee BK reaching the decision to get rid of RM'
Well here is a dose of reality - there is nothing (nb: NOTH-ING) to suggest any getting-rid decision would be guaranteed after a cup defeat.
Repeat, no guarantee, fucking none - that deal exists only in your head and in the pea-brains of those who believe in their own dot-to-dot 'logic' (ie: we lose, he goes).
Still I have to 'congratulate' you on one thing, I have never seen anyone describe themselves as 'a true Evertonian' and to prove it, tell us they want us to lose an FA Cup final.
141 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:15:10
142 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:18:22
He has got to be released at the end of the season. It wouldn't be wise to throw his way the huge amounts of money we look like having to spend this summer.
143 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:21:17
Do us a favour then, if we do win the cup and he stays, he pisses the owners money away and again we struggle like fuck next year, don't come on here complaining he should be sacked. If you didn't already know it football is a results business, and if you get poor results consistently you lose your job, so I would say the odds of him getting sacked would be a lot higher if we lose yes?
What's your problem? As fans we are used to losing and disappointment ! Short-term pain fro long-term gain I see it as. We now have an owner with money and hopefully ambition, so I say let's start the revolution as soon as we can, and not dither around because Martinez won us a cup.
He won Wigan a cup as well. How did that work out?
144 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:25:22
My guess is a lot of things are.
You expertly state (even though it is ALL pure guesswork and contains nothing fucking factual at all)
'Win FA Cup = Martinez staying and Lukaku, Stones etc going, as well as having to put up with the same old shite he spouts'.
Haven't you forgotten a couple of things?
Yeah I think so let me remind you (with facts)
Win FA Cup = it's no longer decades since out last major trophy. Thousands of young Evertonians experience what it's like to win a major trophy. Thousands of Evertonians have a day at Wembley they'll remember their entire lives. We're in Europe again.
As for 'Losing every game = he's sacked and we hopefully get a renowned coach who knows his arse from his elbow'
Wishful thinking guesswork and bollocks and yet on the strength of it, you'll be rooting for our opponents in the semi-final and final should we get there.
145 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:25:23
146 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:26:51
147 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:27:56
What a pair....
148 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:32:32
No need to get personal, especially since you know nothing about me. I'm a true fan, and I don't need you to define me with your insults.
I want the manager gone as of 5 mins ago. Not after the semi, or after a final. NOW. And I make no apology for how that happens, so say what you like about me. I'm sound with it.
149 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:33:30
Sad sad people.
150 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:35:51
On Niasse, how come we are always the ones who buy someone and then they don't play for six months / always unfit/ any other excuse? I don't see this with other clubs. And if is so unfit, then wtf was he doing bringing him on v West Ham in 76th minute? The rest is history!
151 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:36:23
As someone who has also paid through the nose like Dave A above I also find it quite disrespectful that you are hoping Everton lose.
Far from being a "true Evertonian" I think you've lost the plot in thinking we are somehow "Trophy Hunters" whatever that means. Not that I really understand what that is as I say, because surely we all want our club to be successful? Don't we? I think you may be confusing "Glory Hunters" (see David Mellor) who change allegiance to clubs at the drop of a hat. We aren't talking about that here.
As for wanting Everton to lose, well apart from the fact the world doesn't work like that, i.e. you *hoping* that something will happen makes not a jot of difference to whether it will or not, but you *saying* you hope it will happen will actually piss off a lot of people who have spent a lot of money; well actually if Martinez won every single game from now on and made me look a right dickhead, I would be pleased because Everton do well and bollocks to Martinez. I don't care about him I care about Everton.
Obviously he won't win every game though because he is useless, and there actually is a pretty good chance that he will lose every game, because, err, he is useless.
It is no reason to come and tell other Evertonians that that is what you want to happen though because that is really disrespectful. A bit like telling us we are really stupid for wasting our money going to Wembley to see us get beat. We all know that is likely to happen, it isn't going to stop us going and supporting the team. The difference between a true Evertonian, to use your phrase, and whatever else there is, is that we know we may get beat but guess what? we still go and follow the team for the chance of Hunting a Trophy.
Sometimes it is better to keep your opinions to yourself.
152 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:41:10
153 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:44:04
154 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:46:25
You desperately add 'No need to get personal, especially since you know nothing about me. I'm a true fan, and I don't need you to define me with your insults.
No no no, not true - I DO know something about you!
I know (because you told everyone on a public forum) that you call yourself an 'Evertonian' and a 'true fan' yet post that you hope Everton lose the FA Cup final (and/or semi-final) and every game for the rest of the season.
Imo you insult every blue who will be roaring us on at Wembley.
155 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:55:46
As such, I respectfully disagree with the notion that the means (failing in the FA Cup in this case) somehow justifies the end (El Bob moves on). For the primary reason that we can't be certain the two are inextricably linked.
IMO, the ends for this club should always be to win under any and all circumstances. My personal view is that the outcome of the FA Cup will have some bearing on Martinez's future but will not be the sole determining factor.
156 Posted 05/04/2016 at 14:58:18
My semi final tickets have cost me 140 quid for three excluding postage (my Mrs, my daughter and my mum are going, I haven't even got my own yet!)
It will cost me about another 150 quid in petrol and coach fares to go to four games between now and May.
On top of this we have three season tickets so will be up for the Southampton and Bournemouth games and all the costs that come with home games with the family involved.
So no, I don't want us to lose ANY games. Ever.
To suggest that you do, makes you nothing short of a fucking idiot who is wasting a lot of money going the game.
157 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:05:42
If I'd struck this deal with the Cup final Devil, then no Everton fans would be disrespected because they wouldn't know, they'd enjoy the day out no less and believe that we'd just bottled a big game as usual... but THEN. They wake up Sunday and the worst manager we have ever had has been sacked.
Then I'd reveal my deal and my name would ring around Goodison next home game for the sacrifice I made to get rid of a total buffoon from our great club.
Stop taking yourself so seriously FFS, I promise, I won't do the deal but then again who needs to? we lose most games anyway and still we go!!!
158 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:16:56
159 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:20:39
Nor can I agree with Patrick Murphy that such posts should be removed. As others have said, leave them up for all to see and to name and shame the authors.
And to cap it all, Neil and Martin both have the gall to call themselves "true Evertonians", rather than "Kopite trophy hunters" (copyright, Martin Mason), for wishing defeat on the Blues in the Cup.
Martin Mason in particular has been stating the same for weeks, even before we defeated Chelski in the quarters. Just last week, piqued by comments challenging him on his position, he wrote:
"I have a brother, his name is Chris and, like me, he's been watching Everton since the late 50s. He is nothing at all like me and the last place that he would post views would be here. I'll leave you to think about why that should be so."
Having given it some thought, could it be that Chris would be ashamed to be associated with the views of a sibling that posts comments such as:
"I'd gladly and proudly watch Everton lose if it would guarantee BK reaching the decision to get rid of RM."
As others have already pointed out, it is such flawed thinking. Nothing is guaranteed should we lose every game until the end of the season, other than a lower league position and no FA Cup victory.
It is just as likely we can win the FA Cup with two vitories and RM may STILL be dismissed.
Shameful comments from so-called 'true Evertonians.'
160 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:24:38
Back in the real world...
You aren't offered the deal you describe, you're just sharing your fantasy daydreams and in the process, actually causing offence to real world people who have paid real world money. It's Walter Mitty except actually written down and inviting people to comment.
Wouldn't you be better off just selling your soul for Everton to win every single trophy from now on by the way rather than asking for Everton to lose games on the off chance we may sack Martinez, on the off chance we subsequently get someone better, and on the off chance we may then win something? Does that make you a Trophy Hunter though? Hmmm, dilemma. In any case I think you may want to think through the logic of the price of your soul before you dust off the Aleister Crowley instructions and break out the black candles. Just a thought
"ring round Goodison for your sacrifice"? WTF??? I think it is more likely people would be discussing the headline "DEVIL EXISTS FOR REAL!!! shocker but faced with offer local man settles for Martinez sack.
But I digress... Can I suggest you need a little more self awareness and concern for the impact you have by posting here.
As for taking yourself seriously, you recently went into a bizarre rant on another thread with respect to your real world brother in response to a throwaway joke made by another poster so the words pot, kettle and black jump to mind straight away.
161 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:29:36
Doesn't stop crosses, positionally clueless, no use going forward without a permanent close-proximity wall pass assistant (i.e, Pienaar) and dreadfully one-footed and obvious in possession.
In short, shut up Leighton and get your own house in order before sniping.
162 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:36:07
There's no wish for Everton to lose or to hurt your very sensitive inner feelings, is it better if I say that I'd accept losing every game if the buffoon was sent packing rather than the thought crime of wishing it?
163 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:42:54
Martin Mason @ 157.
And he closes by saying "Stop taking yourself so seriously FFS..."
I think my WOW is metamorphosing into a concerned ... Whooooooaaaaa ...
164 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:44:47
Seamus Coleman on the other hand is the full back that worries me. Up until this season I thought he would go on to be one of the very best in Europe but his performances have been erratic at best this season.
Mind you, I guess when you're playing in a group of players without any obvious cohesion, it's difficult to shine.
165 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:48:29
Not really...but I reckon I've a fair idea of his state of mind just before he posts.
166 Posted 05/04/2016 at 15:54:57
Not much, you old fart (you started it!)
In advance, you are required to support Everton in order to describe yourself as a true Evertonian in my book.
No tactical defeats. I got into a right argument with the fellas sat next to me who stood up and applauded Man City scoring at Goodison. Lost the plot? Or just traitors?
It's very different to finding solace and a silver lining after we get beat.
For me, being clearly the sensitive soul you describe, if I had inadvertently offended people without realising, and then when it was pointed out to me suddenly realised what I had done, I would immediately retract remarks and apologise. If I didn't do that I'd think I was a right pompous and self important idiot. But that's my view I guess.
Actually I am not offended at all by clearly idiotic remarks, it just reflects on the person who made them.
But for the likes of Franny Porter above, I think you may want to reconsider.
By the way, no-one wants Martinez gone more than me. People like me, Phil Walling, and a few others posted from the start what we thought would happen but still got behind him for the team's sake. I thought I was wrong in his first season, and the turning point was Ovideo at OT. I turned back to confirmation of my opinion at Murder in the drubbing and I wanted him gone when he was beaten 3-0 at Swansea.
None of that stops me wanting to see another FA Cup triumph in any way, forlorn hope though I think it is.
167 Posted 05/04/2016 at 16:06:31
Had he been a naughty boy like Eto'o & Distin before him? Is it all just a coincidence? Will he be unfit for the next game?
168 Posted 05/04/2016 at 16:23:47
The part that is confusing to me is some of these same people are on here castigating Evertonians who wish the club would lose every game to ensure RM is gone. Again short term set-back to ensure long-term goal.
What is really the difference other than one group prioritizing winning shiny things while the other group prioritizes getting a new manager. Seems hypocritical to blast the latter group whilst clapping on the former for their pragmatism and desperation.
I would submit all members of both groups and also, those who want Everton to try to win every damn game they play in and to field the best damn team they can every game, are all fans of the club. None of the opinions are embarrassing to me, including those who continue to back a manager I never wanted, as they are opinions.
The real problem is that we have now arrived at a stage where our players have to come out and say how bad things are to try to get our management to pull their heads out of their collective asses and remedy the situation. Sign a manger already for next season like Chelsea did FFS! That news alone should lift the players' spirits and might help the results.
It might even end the arguments on here, at least on this topic so we can get back to arguing over the numerous other choices we have.
170 Posted 05/04/2016 at 16:30:37
Wishing him gone is one thing but willing my bets to lose is something else completely. Have a bloody heart, lads!
171 Posted 05/04/2016 at 16:36:15
173 Posted 05/04/2016 at 16:41:19
Anyway I like the last verse from Rudyard:-
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And which is more you'll be a Man, my son!
174 Posted 05/04/2016 at 16:49:46
175 Posted 05/04/2016 at 17:01:40
The unease at the way Distin was treated by Martinez, he opened his mouth and was dropped like a hot stone. What did he say that was so bad? Sorry boss but I do not think this is working can we try something else.
The ability to make terrible decisions about substitutes. My fiend told me he was at the West Ham game and when RM took Lennon off he could see McCarthy mouth to Barkley "What the fuck is he doing"?
The ability to get worse every season. I was hoping that last season was down to too many injuries, post World Cup etc but it obviously wasn't. The first season was a fluke, the players were relieved to see the new manager with a different philosophy.
The players are totally demotivated now. Martinez'a interview post match when he said that the "Fans like the rest of us can't understand what is happening" was the end for me.
He is hopeless this season we will not even make 50 points. Don't worry about who we get just concentrate on him going. If the team lose on Saturday that will be 4 in a row and I'll be amazed if he sees us into the semi final. Put Ferguson and Unsworth in charge for the rest of the season
176 Posted 05/04/2016 at 17:08:27
177 Posted 05/04/2016 at 17:09:00
Not the case (I wouldn't give that cake-making colonialist Tory twat house room).
I was actually talking about a very different version.
178 Posted 05/04/2016 at 17:10:21
179 Posted 05/04/2016 at 18:37:34
Link [Now fixed â€” Ed]
I'd like to think that Kenwright, Mr Moshiri & the rest of the board can see the discontent of the fans. My concern is that somehow Martinez will remain in post till early next season. How I don't know, because any other club in the premier league would of gotten rid of him a long time ago.
I hate to say it, but a walk out similar to what the deluded bunch over the park did, may be a way of getting the message across. Lets be honest, based on this seasons home games thus far you're not going to miss anything leaving Goodison early, other than frustration despair and anger!
181 Posted 05/04/2016 at 18:52:31
182 Posted 05/04/2016 at 18:52:36
183 Posted 05/04/2016 at 18:57:57
Not fair to judge him against this clown who has had almost 3 full seasons
184 Posted 05/04/2016 at 19:09:53
I also want Martinez to go, he tried and it didn't work out for him.
I do wonder whether Jags, as Captain has a route to the Board if there are rumblings in the dressing room. Would be good to see a positive statement from the Board regarding expectations and what they expect, but as in the past, Everton can seem like the safest job in football.
Moshiri was on the board at Arsenal and in my view if they should have got shut of Wenger ages ago, so we will what position he takes with Martinez. Hopefully new ambition is shown and we go for a proven winner. Neither Martinez's track record, his 3 years at Everton or our current position can convince anyone he is the right man for the job. Even the pundits are circling.
185 Posted 05/04/2016 at 19:12:55
188 Posted 05/04/2016 at 19:37:12
I'd lost the will to live by then so can't remember how I felt but interesting that the board acted in spite of this reversal of fortunes, sacked Walker post that game and installed Royle, the season ending with our last trophy.
I'd stick with Martinez until after the Cup run at least but maybe a sign there?!
189 Posted 05/04/2016 at 19:38:31
I think when you highlight in the comments box on here and hit the URL it might drop off everything after the .org, so you just end up on the Change home page.
Let me know if it doesn't work
192 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:03:41
193 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:14:54
194 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:21:29
Circa 1964 Anfield, a kid called Harvey etc... I was only two but me arl fella talked about how the Kop emptied so quick when 3rd went in. Except for delirious Blues.
195 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:41:09
He does look like Cobb though.
Liked your post (170). I'm years away from the gambling crowd I grew up with. Still, though, good to see someone maintain perspective.
196 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:56:49
Have you ever played fullback, with no-one ahead of you to help you Neil?
Possibly the worst post I have ever read on ToffeeWeb, absolutely sickening to read.
197 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:57:50
As the poster at #15 basically said, Baines's long-winded covert analysis was that Martinez and his support team of goons haven't got a clue how to operate at the level Blues expect and deserve.
Why don't millionaire players with nothing to lose say it out loud and clear and not pussyfoot around? The players are in revolt and will not give of their best. Which even to the third rate Wigan mafia must be obvious by now.
Oh for the days when Gordon West would give the two fingered salute to his previously adoring fans in the Street End without worrying about the consequences.
198 Posted 05/04/2016 at 20:59:32
He has never seen Everton lift a trophy (although I tell him about the eighties and the 1995 FA Cup Final). How a fellow 'supporter' can wish to deprive him of seeing his Everton dreams come true due to a bitter and twisted wish to have the manager sacked is beyond belief.
I want Martinez gone, my son wants him gone, we all want him gone but to say this in lieu of winning a cup is madness.
199 Posted 05/04/2016 at 21:17:31
To me, being a supporter is about the memories and if we win the cup I will, and this is totally devoid of pragmatism, do a fucking cartwheel.
200 Posted 05/04/2016 at 21:21:39
They still go everywhere Everton play; between these four kids, they must have accumulated at least 60 years between them watching us win nothing.
Not just Goodison, but fucking everywhere, they travel. I asked my kids years ago, a family holiday, or watch Everton in Europe?
They never saw a beach, and they still haven't seen Everton run around Wembley with the cup.
Sometimes people say things without really thinking.
201 Posted 05/04/2016 at 21:39:09
He's a local lad, a thoughtful person and I really hope he has been voicing his opinions. He's certainly no mug and Martinez et al would do well to listen to him especially when he used to lead all the assist tables.
As for the supporting debate...really? I disliked most of our squad and style under Walter Smith but I always willed them to win however bad I thought things were. We need a Cup. We've been stuck on 5 FA Cups for 21 years. In my lifetime we've been to 6 finals and lost 4. Time to increase the WIN column.
Hopefully we'll sack Martinez once we've been returned to reality and he's lost the first 10 league games of next season. I jest but he is going to have to be fired for one of these long losing streaks sooner or later.
202 Posted 05/04/2016 at 21:53:18
I stated earlier that if we actually win the FA Cup, I'd toast Harold Matthews (RIP) and all the Blues aged 60-plus who just deserve it.
Never, ever crossed my mind (simpleton) but your points about the younger generation of supporters who've not seen Everton win a thing is excellent and one I'm glad you brought up.
And Tony finally I have to add a personal note - one that really has naught to do with Everton per se, and I hope it's allowed to stand.
I asked my kids years ago, a family holiday, or watch Everton in Europe?
It's damn pleasing to this old fart to see someone out there told their kids "no." Or, if you like, "you can have THIS but if we do THIS you can't have THAT."
In a day and age where seemingly the entire world teaches their kids me-me-me and self-absorption rules the day, it is incredibly refreshing to hear a father tell his kids something along the lines of, "we can do one thing, but we won't do both / can't afford both"... et al.
You didn't spoil them. You didn't give them everything they wanted. And to their credit they chose the event that would bring memories and bonding - not some superficial trip.
I think that is simply fantastic, and I think someone out there, even a stranger on the internet, should applaud you.
It seems the whole world turns upside down to give their kids everything, when the best thing for them is NOT to give them everything...
204 Posted 05/04/2016 at 22:19:10
I could also add a selfish point. I am 52, if we don't win a trophy for another 21 years then doing the maths, I may not be around to see it!
I can vaguely remember the league win in 1970 so don't count that as a clear one, therefore in the 46 years since, we have won a cup/league in 4 of those. This gives an average of one trophy every 11 to 12 years. Hardly a frequent event is it?
They should all be cherished, and whilst I still have my marbles then I have wonderful memories of these occasions.
Lets win the cup and the aftermath will take care of itself
205 Posted 05/04/2016 at 22:39:22
I don't know if anyone else noticed but when Coleman chased and then tackled (I think) Martial and put the ball out for a corner, he looked like he needed an iron lung as he staggered back towards goal and this was only 10 mins into the game! This lad used to bomb down the line, put crosses in, then be chasing back and keeping up with the fastest wingers with ease. He's only in his 20s, but looks terribly unfit, à la most of our team... and don't even mention Niasse!
206 Posted 05/04/2016 at 22:45:37
Have you ever heard of players not getting on? What about Stones asking for a transfer? What about Lukaku as good as saying he wants to go at the end of the season and play in the Champions League? Do you think that fosters team spirit?
What about Barkley, do you think he's pulling his weight? What about Lukaku who's scored a load of goals and sees our defenders letting in soft goals left right and centre? What about Lennon who's playing well and trying his heart out every game only to find himself losing or drawing games?
I think you're putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 because it agrees with your opinion.
211 Posted 06/04/2016 at 08:33:15
Jamie, thanks for the compliment mate, even if I have to disagree with you for once. I did give my kids everything, because they live for Everton, and you're right mate, I think they will remember the fantastic time we had in Nuremberg, till they breath their final breadth.
I know I will, and it's the reason I want our team, to give all the kids like my own, the joy that winning at Wembley brings!!!
212 Posted 06/04/2016 at 08:53:13
Jamie, you are right, and I hope you get to raise that glass for Harold, Howard Kendall (who would have been 70, the day after the cup final) and every other Evertonian who has ever lived.
It's possible I might act like I'm 21 again, and I might drink for a week. if I do, the biggest glass will be for Martinez, who despite his shortcomings would have given us great happiness, even if I would hope it was his last game as Everton's manager.
How's that for a contradiction! Let's just hope Leighton Baines's comments, have made a few people look at themselves a little closer, and will hopefully stop this season petering out into nothing.
213 Posted 06/04/2016 at 09:19:54
214 Posted 06/04/2016 at 09:38:41
Martin, Dave's right, I'm going to show you how a real lunatic behaves!!!
215 Posted 06/04/2016 at 09:47:58
I hope that we win the FA Cup Final, beating Palace, to avoid comparisons being made, in a devastating display of passion and drive. Then, at the end of the match, I want all the players to celebrate whilst very clearly turning their backs on the management team in a, "We won this by ignoring you" moment.
In fact, I'd quite like the post match-interview with Jags to be:
"The lads all got together and decided that we had to win this for the fans. So we all did some proper fitness training in the evening when Martinez wasn't around and we'd get together on days off to work on strategies for corners and free kicks. I think we really wanted to show everyone exactly what this group of players could have done with a half-decent boss."
216 Posted 06/04/2016 at 14:59:20
I want to know what's wrong with our core of important players. McCarthy used to cover every blade of grass. He looked woeful on the weekend. Coleman looks half the player he was as does Baines. That mean nothing from the wing.
Lukaku looked disinterested and won nothing. Barkley had a stinker too. In any team if that number of players are putting in 5/10 performances they'll struggle. I want to know why... Can only guess fitness, a severe frustration of how the season has gone ... are we losing so many games from winning positions when playing well or lack of faith in the manager.
217 Posted 06/04/2016 at 15:55:54
If only clubs could put it in contracts, you put 100% in every game or you will lose money, then you would soon see less of pathetic excuses by he likes of Baines.
I would, for the last few games bar the semi, drop the lot of them and play the Under-21s and make the first team watch from the stands.
218 Posted 06/04/2016 at 19:17:40
The crap Baines is getting on here is disgraceful, all those with half a brain will blame the players but not realise what they are being asked to do, I have said it before and yet again, if you ask a player to play in a way that tactically is inept (great in theory, impossible in practise) or perhaps they are not capable of doing, why blame the players?? Look at the way we are set up to play and what players are being asked to do.
Tactically we play with no cover when we go forward, based on the principle that possession is king and if we score more we will always win. Cuckoo land. WE HAVEN'T GOT MESSI TO MAKE IT HAPPEN!!
Individually we have 16 good players very capable of challenging for Europe. IF they are set up to play in a way that:
1. Makes sense to them and makes use of THEIR strengths and minimises the teams weaknesses.
2. We have the capability in the right areas to play that way that can win
3. We can adapt quickly to change our style to counter the opposition.
Personally I would like to see this team with no changes playing for a different manager and a different set of tactics. Chemistry is not just about the ingredients, its about HOW you put it together and that is what Baines is talking about.
But really, those who would wish us to lose a game, any game, to get rid of the manager? If it was a player you would hound them out of the club, as a fan? Not one I would want to know...
219 Posted 06/04/2016 at 23:53:46
I don't know whether you intended it but for me there is a striking resemblance between the singer and our manager.
When he got to the line where he sings "There's no one home but you" I lost it completely. Laughter lifts your spirits we should have more of it.
220 Posted 07/04/2016 at 00:36:31
I tend to agree with most of your posts; long may it continue. It's not rocket science, and that is what is most frustrating when assessing the current management!
Footballing basics and common sense. COYB.
221 Posted 07/04/2016 at 07:16:42
It's no surprise that Baines's form has suffered as a result as there is often little or nothing infront of him. Not to mention Baines's injury having an adverse affect on his fitness.
222 Posted 07/04/2016 at 08:28:55
Baines sees Mata collect the ball, gives him the time to look up and pass it to a Man Utd team mate to deliver the cross for their goal. Baines is a defender, his job is to stop this and he is not very good at it. Anyone with half a brain would see that also!
We all know Baines has been a good player for us, he was better when Pienaar was in the side, but if he has to hold his hands up to don't you think?
Can I ask who would you like as our new manager?
223 Posted 07/04/2016 at 08:44:16
224 Posted 07/04/2016 at 09:27:26
Watch his position when Man Utd break. He should in my opinion be fifteen yards closer to his centre back, tucking in, and looking along the line, with his left arm up in the air shouting offside.
He doesn't because he has got no wide midfielder, who is willing to come back, and cover the left back position. Is it any wonder that Everton, are so easy to play against?
I agree that we don't stop enough crosses, but when Baines had Osman outside him against Man City, or Cleverley holding his position against Chelsea, he played much better defensively.
The problem is the system, and a manager who keeps pushing his wide left player into a more central attacking position to help Lukaku.
We had chemistry against Chelsea; it wasn't pretty, but it made us very hard to beat. Surely the basic basis for any competitive team?
225 Posted 07/04/2016 at 09:29:47
Players, especially defenders, commit without thinking when they know someone has their back, if they are not confident of that then they stand off, which Baines did.
He would probably tell you the same thing but also admit he should have gone for it. He didn't and I would say that's what a loss of confidence in how a team is playing affects players decisions.
It's corrosive ....
Who would I want as next manager? Choke on this one... Rafa.. He will be available shortly.. Experienced in winning things... Not everyone's cup of tea but we could do a lot worse.
227 Posted 07/04/2016 at 10:55:46
228 Posted 07/04/2016 at 11:43:48
Hope Leighton's re-education is going well.
229 Posted 07/04/2016 at 11:52:58
230 Posted 07/04/2016 at 12:05:54
I'm watching the games, checking in here and busying myself elsewhere just so this season passes quickly.
232 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:07:32
I have backed him and defended him continuously.
There is no defence for that statement.
234 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:32:31
235 Posted 07/04/2016 at 13:41:23
236 Posted 07/04/2016 at 14:08:10
Coleman, Jagielka, Funes Mori, Galloway;
Lennon, Stones, Baines, Oviedo;
It WOULD work... prove me wrong, then my, fellow Blues. I can't see a downside from where am sitting.
237 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:31:35
If Baines had been speaking to a national journalist then the shite at the Echo would never have mentioned this, in fact it would never have happened.
Where were Prentice and O'Keefe et al during the last days of Moyes? Where have they been during the last 2 years of watching and listening to Martinez's crap?
It's a pity Martinez hasn't banned the Echo lackeys from Finch Farm and Goodison.
For years we've been asking these incompetents to ask questions we supporters have wanted asking and have got absolutely fuck all. Now, all of a sudden, they are on the receiving end and it's an issue.
Martinez lost the plot years ago not after the Man Utd game. This nutter should have been shown the door last season. He is an embarrassment to himself and our Club.
The Echo has never questioned this charlatan until now hypocritical tossers.
238 Posted 07/04/2016 at 15:50:52
Our new owner, and Martinez's closest ally Bill, have to see now, what they're dealing with, "He's in fucking cuckoo land."
Is Chris Sutton the only pundit that sees it?
239 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:02:11
"The manager has drilled it into us, so we know where we have to play and what we have to do. It's going well."
At the beginning of the season, Watford had 20+(?) new players and a new manager. They're two places behind us. Chemistry?
240 Posted 07/04/2016 at 16:06:45
Our defense is not well coached in a system of working together, hence the individual errors usually lead to a goal against as once a mistake is made the others don't know what to do or are in the wrong starting position to offer cover.
I also agree that Rafa would be a good choice.
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