A banner at Vicarage Road calls for the dismissal of manager, Roberto Martinez
Two unmissable banners, one reading "Baines is one of us" and "Martinez Out" were unfurled in the front row of the visiting section before the 1-1 draw at Vicarage Road this afternoon, responses to Everton's poor form and the fallout over comments Leighton Baines made after last Sunday's poor display against Manchester United. They were, according to fans present, later taken down on the orders of Watford stewards.
Baines was asked then by Phil Kirkbride of the Liverpool Echo if he could explain why the Blues' were struggling so badly for results in recent weeks and the fullback said that the team was perhaps missing some chemistry.
Martinez responded in his pre-match press conference on Thursday by saying the defender's comments were taken out of context and that he would "need to take responsibility for those words" and the fact they were misconstrued. He also said that Baines had apologised for what he said.
Many supporters feel that Baines was merely pointing out the obvious after three successive Premier League defeats and the banner was an obvious response in support of the player.
Asked for his thoughts on the banners after the match, which was attended by Chairman Bill Kenwright and director Jon Woods, Martinez said that he could understand the frustration after that run of defeats.
“We share that feeling," Martinez said to the media. "The fans are allowed to express their views and once the game started their support was magnificent. We felt that support.
“For me, they are the best fans in world football. I think we showed anyway wherever we go away in Europe. We did it last season when we went away to different countries and the support that had then was quite unique.
“That's carried through in the domestic cup competitions this season and any time we play we know we can rely on that support.
“I don't expect any fan to be happy after three defeats in the league. I don't think we are happy with it. What is important is that we perform really well.
“We are a football club that is going into a very important period and clearly everything we do is to make our fans proud.”
"A strong result for both teams"
In terms of the result on the day, Martinez said that he felt both teams put in "complete performances" and that "the overall scoreline is a strong one for both teams,” a feeling not shared by the majority of Everton supporters if the reaction on social media and fan websites is anything to go by.
“We were so close to half-time and it's important sometimes to go to half-time with a lead and you can refocus a reset," the Catalan continued. “It's more the disappointment at the nature of the goal. It's a header that bounces off the back of a Watford player and ends up in the back of the net.
“I was delighted with how we started again the second half. We weren't affected by it.
“We got in really good situations and the quality we had with the front three of Romelu Lukaku, Aaron Lennon and Geri Deulofeu, and Kevin Mirallas when he came on... on another day with a bit more things going our way, we could have taken those [chances].
“I thought both teams performed really strong and played with intensity. We coped with their front two extremely well even though Joel Robles had to make an outstanding save at the very end."
Reader Comments (203)
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1 Posted 09/04/2016 at 23:13:53
2 Posted 09/04/2016 at 23:20:33
3 Posted 09/04/2016 at 23:23:38
4 Posted 09/04/2016 at 23:25:57
5 Posted 09/04/2016 at 23:30:17
Roberto knows we can't stand him and is trying to butter us up, too little too late. We don't need telling we're great fans (we know), we needed you to stop shockingly cocking up all the time and to not talk such utter fuckin' nonsesnse after games, but you didn't and now you have to go as we can't handle this, we hate it.
As for people hoping for Jose, he's a narcissistic prick, I would not want him here.
6 Posted 09/04/2016 at 23:56:21
7 Posted 09/04/2016 at 23:57:07
I personally don't like Jose either for never accepting that the opposition has been better than his team, his arrogance and his total lack of respect for others bur would I accept him at our great club?
Absolutely because he can organise a defence and he is a winner! Martinez is a loser
9 Posted 09/04/2016 at 00:09:00
Roberto's living on another planet if he thinks he can just talk his way out of his and this team's shortcomings.
We'll be lucky to win another game this season. There is no burning desire to win, we just meekly surrender.
10 Posted 09/04/2016 at 00:13:24
Ross has become a parody. It's tragic seeing him struggle. Can't head a ball. Can't tackle. The final indignation is that he can no longer pick a pass as he seems to favour the easiest option rather than risk another calamity. He needs protection in the form of a " rest".
Delboy is blowing for tugs early on and is leaving Seamus terribly exposed. Rom is now a hulking, sulking space waster. Deeney out worked him today threefold.
Ross, Del and Rom just don't seem fit enough to me. We,(the supporters) will go to Anfield with a conditioned mindset. There's no point worrying about what's inevitable. Better to prepare for it. We're conditioned.
On a different subject. Message for Eddie Hearn boxing promoter. Save money on huge pay days for your fighters. One room, Brendan Rodgers, Roberto Martinez, one microphone. Watch them go at it! Wish someone at our club would order our cuckoo (Roberto) to jog on when it comes to interviews..
11 Posted 10/04/2016 at 00:13:43
Martinez's "best fans in the world" comment is an embarrassment.
The flags at today's game have made there point, now we need to see them at Goodison next week.
12 Posted 10/04/2016 at 00:23:35
888 people who somehow think this fraud is worthy to carry on managing Everton FC. Un-fucking-believeable that 888 people actually think this.
13 Posted 10/04/2016 at 00:33:24
He really thinks it's all about 3 defeats? He is either suffering early senile dementia or is an arrogant arsewipe I'd suggest the latter
14 Posted 10/04/2016 at 00:34:53
He might not have a lot of decorum or class but he does what is necessary for his team to win. Cue the 'selling our soul' and it wouldn't be 'the Everton way' replies.
Well I for one am sick fed up of accepting mediocrity, ONE major trophy in 28yrs!!! I remember when the Everton way was about winning honours!! Get Jose here ASAP.
15 Posted 10/04/2016 at 00:36:03
16 Posted 10/04/2016 at 00:42:47
The whole season is an important period Roberto!!!
17 Posted 10/04/2016 at 00:45:25
1. He believes RM can win him the Cup just as he did for Whelan.
2. It's only 3 weeks since he uttered the infamous words 'What a manager!'
3. He genuinely believes in the guy's 'philosophy' and wants to see it through.
In short, BK's pride prevents him from admitting he is wrong. And he is a very proud man. Meanwhile we sink ever lower on his bloody vanity and self-concern!
18 Posted 10/04/2016 at 00:54:47
I reckon the team is now brain washed into "el stagnato, borento, dos ale house." Enough said, it can't go on, we have become a comic team, and it's text book predictable.
No fuse, no tempo, no guts, no fight, no shame. The worst time. The worst RS team and we make them look good. Please tell me, more, how and why?
19 Posted 10/04/2016 at 01:01:03
I also think you're spot on Phil.
20 Posted 10/04/2016 at 01:09:59
To be fair Robles made a great save late on but why has our attack become so heavy legged and cumbersome? We should have put them away but now our attack is struggling as much as the back four.
I didn't bother buying a ticket for this or Palace and I live in North London. Reason being, I've seen such awful performances under Martinez that I cannot be bothered to waste my money and time until he's gone. If an away fan gears an entire day around going to watch their team and the manager of that team cannot be bothered, as a professional, to master some of the basic fundamentals of the game then why bother?
It is telling that the away fans, who tend to be younger and more positive and vocal than the home fans, brought the banners.
If Martinez isn't gone by the summer, I will have to judge BK as fan and a businessman.
21 Posted 10/04/2016 at 01:22:22
We've had enough of him and he knows it, trying to butter us up with his usual rhetoric and insane ramblings. The poll in the Mirror is damning with over ten thousand voting for his removal immediately, not even waiting for the semi final.
Despite playing a blinder for Argentina against Chile, Funes Mori was left on the bench again, Stones selected instead and made another schoolboy error for the goal. At least FM always plays as if he wants to win, unlike most of our totally demoralised team at present. I believe Martinez has lost the dressing room. The players showed no intensity, no CHEMISTRY and no desire to win for our jackass manager.
Hopefully there will be even more banners at Palace and even more still at the next home game if he hangs on that long. We have to find a way to get rid of this awful man. He's a rank failure. There are now only three teams between us and the relegation places. Is this what BK wants for Everton? Is this what Mr Moshiri envisaged when he bought into the club? Act now!!! Let's see some positive action by the fans to force some positive action by the board. Let's make our feelings clear at the next home game and maybe, just maybe, those in their ivory towers will see the disaster looming that many of us have seen coming for almost two years of continued failure under the Catalan charlatan.
22 Posted 10/04/2016 at 01:22:43
Also, people talk about Barcelona and Martinez thinking we have their players etc. I would say for sure, if Martinez was in charge of Barcelona, they too would drop like a stone. I want Kenwright out and take his mate Martinez with him NOW!!!
23 Posted 10/04/2016 at 01:24:46
This team lacks confidence (chemistry) and we fans are fueling the downward spiral. FFS stop the anti Martinez crap at games, back the players, stop screaming at every misplaced pass and do what we do best.. Be Blues.
The recriminations can come at the end of May if you want, not now when we do still have something to play for.
24 Posted 10/04/2016 at 01:37:00
Watch the corner episode again; Stones 'offered' Robles the chance to come for the ball just as he and it (and the Watford guy tbf) came to the edge of the box. I saw Robles (very quickly) start to come, then stay rooted near his post... then it all went rapidly down hill from there.
Kenwright was there, obviously hasn't been to spec savers yet.
25 Posted 10/04/2016 at 02:02:05
I agree with your sentiment but we have been so poor this season. We're gonna finish 14th or something which is unthinkable given our striker is in double figures.
We are rudderless.
He needs to go otherwise we could have our best players depart and do a Villa next season. Remember they reached an FA Cup final and are now gone.
26 Posted 10/04/2016 at 02:21:10
I don't remember a single substitution that brought a positive result in any game. Poor manager with no vision and knowledge...
Absolutely unacceptable for this level of football!
27 Posted 10/04/2016 at 04:30:12
We need to be challenging for Champions League. Who out of that 11 we played against Man Utd would you have in an Everton shirt?? Not many! The systems he plays are not good enough anymore.
28 Posted 10/04/2016 at 05:04:21
A clear way to predict the future is to study the past, and Martinez has a rotten past in the Premier League. If he stays then we will be relegated, the man keeps readjusting his goals the lower we get.
He has now completely cut out the talk of getting Champions League. As a matter of fact, he never truly believed he could get it as his face turned red and the sweat was pouring down his face when Bill Kenwright said he would be the one to take us there.
How on earth can Bill Kenwright be fooled so easy? If he had looked at the actual record of Martinez then he would never have fallen for the spin master.
29 Posted 10/04/2016 at 05:36:38
Individual mistakes and referee's have certainly contributed, but the fans are more than aware of how your teams have defended with Wigan and now Everton.
Figures are shocking... a failure to win the FA Cup and a thrashing an Anfield will have you aplying for the Newcastle job next year.
30 Posted 10/04/2016 at 07:29:52
Sky Sports said that the game was one to miss, but Roberto said there was some kind of amazing intensity going on. However clever manoeuvre to refer to losing three games Bob, it's the incredible form over the last two seasons, incredible we are so poor, that should see you kindly offer your resignation. Why should we sack this chap and pay a big severance? He should offer to fall in his sword.
31 Posted 10/04/2016 at 07:53:48
The best thing I can say is at least we're not Newcastle. Yet.
32 Posted 10/04/2016 at 07:59:13
If his rhetoric matched the performances I doubt there would be half the vitriol.
It's his bullshit that has done it for me, can't abide his 'taking us for mugs' utterances no more, it's bizarre to say the least.
33 Posted 10/04/2016 at 08:00:46
I am fascinated to try and understand how any Evertonian who has watched us these last 2 seasons thinks this and would love you to persuade us as to the reasons.
34 Posted 10/04/2016 at 08:14:55
All the reasons why he shouldn't have been said many times on TW but a simple look at the last 2 seasons statistics plus his in game management, inability to change and delusional interviews summarise the problem.
Also, I urge you to look at Wigan's stats prior to Martinez and then during his reign you will find a shocking pattern that is now very familiar.
Quite simply, the guy is not up to Premier League management. Don't just look at opinions use facts to view his capability
35 Posted 10/04/2016 at 08:20:12
I imagine BK loves the limelight of recalling his Everton stories and will have set his heart on one last dream before he steps down for health reasons
Yes I suspect the man is that selfish
Let's hope Moshi has bigger ambitions and plans for Everton FC
36 Posted 10/04/2016 at 08:26:11
You are entitled to your opinion, Phil Williams, but please explain to me why you think Roberto should stay in a job? He is dead man walking and the inevitable sacking will come. I just hope it is tomorrow morning!
37 Posted 10/04/2016 at 08:44:13
39 Posted 10/04/2016 at 08:50:11
40 Posted 10/04/2016 at 08:50:29
41 Posted 10/04/2016 at 08:57:42
42 Posted 10/04/2016 at 08:57:48
If you where a American BB you could give Trump a run for candidate with some of the nonsense you continue to spout
I only hope that there's no more than the 888 conned snake oil parishioners out there and that before the game someone organises a Martinez out rally outside Goodison
But when the whistle goes I agree lets just get behind the boy's in blue
Get out if our club, get out of our club
Bobby Bullshit get out of our club!!
Sing it loud lets get our point across!!
44 Posted 10/04/2016 at 09:14:14
You are right he wants to go out as an FA cup winning chairman, he is that selfish, if he knew anything about football he would have realised, long before now, the damage Martinez is doing to OUR club.
Mr. Moshiri must be aware that a big and important decision has to be made, for the sake of his money and his and our pride, that decision should have been made before now. Every minute Martinez remains in the job the more damage is done.
45 Posted 10/04/2016 at 09:32:45
I just hope that Kenwright steps aside sooner rather than later and Moshiri ignores his poor advice.
You could say that Martinez is the victim here because Kenwright hired a man who is completely out of his depth.
While Kenwright is around I fear for our club.
46 Posted 10/04/2016 at 09:34:15
While I find it hard to believe there are still people defending Martinez, most people are open to alternatives. The problem is now, a consensus has formed after the results and 2 seasons of digression, possibly heading towards relegation next season.
I'll play the debate. It is after all so rare to see a pro-Martinez comment these days.
What is the use of persevering with RM?
Is it his football? The one that failed to get results and turned into long balls when Plan A fails? No sympathy from me there because it was ugly and it still doesn't win. Also, we're not exactly playing extended stretches of good football even early in the season (perhaps not even seen last season), so where is the evidence that he can coach that level of quality?
Is it his recruitment? Given the many "exciting" additions, we've not seen many recruits get the direct jump into first team nor even given much game time bar injury of an established first team. So, that tells me, whoever he gets, unless it's a £50 mill player rejected by the likes of Barca, he will not rock the boat to search of winning ways. However good his eye is for talent, he'll only play a team that fits 1 style, 1 tactic and 1 mindset, hence never addressing the shortfalls that we've seen in the past 2 years.
Is it his optimism? Other than the punchlines he throws in presses, he does not seem to deal well with adversity. Not dealing with Lukaku's "come and get me" rhethoric yet giving Baines a talking to. Naismith, Distin, Mirallas, all signs of his poor man management, so despite the niceties that he throws to the media, he has shown very poor (for the lack of better words) "ethics" when dealing with the team and fans over the past 2 seasons.
Is it plain hope that he will change? 3 seasons, 2 filled with opportunities to change, yet nothing changed, so there is almost no chance he will change his coaching, buy the right players nor play the right team even if he is given more time. Everyone make mistakes, but good managers learn and adapt quickly, not drown in their own blood over 3 seasons.
He will be here till we finish our FA Cup run. After that, it's time for someone else. Now is not the time for "better the devil we know" because this devil will relegate us.
Matt @ 37. Agree on Mourinho. He's not proven to manage a team unwilling to spend. I would add that Porto, however much poorer than Barca and City, is still among the elites in Portugal. I rather we give a look to Watford's Flores than "buy buy buy" Mourinho, but before that, surely Koeman should be one of our top candidates.
47 Posted 10/04/2016 at 09:34:26
48 Posted 10/04/2016 at 09:38:18
49 Posted 10/04/2016 at 09:43:17
50 Posted 10/04/2016 at 09:50:04
Everton now laying in 14th place?! This team has lost themselves and it is all down to Martinez not having a bloody clue. He has taken the pure talent out of these talented players of ours that do have what it takes to win the Premier League, but not with this clueless tit of a manager that Everton have.
I have already accepted Everton will not win the cup... if they do, Martinez still has to go. Winning the League Cup or FA Cup does not get you into the Champions League!! THIS CLUB DESERVES BETTER!
52 Posted 10/04/2016 at 09:55:04
1) Pull out all the stops and get Diego Simeone. He's done a great job at Atletico and will bring a true winning mentality;
2) Frank be Boer â€“ his experience at Ajax will ensure that the 5-6 top young players we have coming through will get a chance and he will also be able to attract big names;
3) Go British and give it to Eddie Howe â€“ a great job done at Bournemouth and we would see a return to a more energetic and British style. He would hopefully bring Callum Wilson with him; I think he could be the real deal and a fifth of the price of that waste of space, Lukaku.
4) Give Big Dunc and Unsy the job for the rest of the season and see if they've got what it takes....
55 Posted 10/04/2016 at 10:04:30
I am probably going to get hammered for these comments but under the rule of 'evertbody is entitled to their opinion', here goes:
Apart from the manager, who is a total waste of technical area and dugout space, I just think we ain't good enough. We have too many average players, we have too many players who have similiarities in their respective roles: Cleverley, Barry, McCarthy, Besic; Deulofeu, Mirallas, Lennon.
When we dominated the eighties, every player was an individual and a team player and each had their own hallmark, starting with neville Southall, right to the last man forward.
We are lacking players that have a hallmark and any ones we do have are coveted by big teams that are pursuing success. Tthe criteria would be that the players I mentioned, if put on the market, would not much interest The top four teams.
We are in a quagmire now, we need individuals who are skillfull and who can tackle and defend, 6 or 7 at least. Not to harp on about Vardy, but his workrate is awesome! Sometimes I focus just on him off the ball and ask myself, where the fuck does he get the energy from? Right up until the final whistle!
I hope we can win the FA cup and build on that success... with a new manager, of course!
56 Posted 10/04/2016 at 10:06:30
The guy from The Times defended his "style" of football and his "bringing on young players" but the other 3 agreed that he was under-performing with such a "talented" squad.
While not caring in some ways what (national) journalists think, it does seem that the footballing media has seen enough on Martinez's theories and do believe that Everton are seriously under-performing. However, they also agreed that he would not be sacked while still in a semi-final.
For me, it is time for Everton to make a decision. They have not made a serious decision since they sacked Smith. Moyes shenanigans with Man Utd saved our inept Board from making any decision. I firmly believe that if Moyes hadn't decided to go to Man Utd he would still be here no matter what the results or performances were like.
Again going back to the Sunday Supplement, the reporters agreed that Moyes had an "easy" time at Everton and indeed most teams had fallen for the "you cannot beat the Top Four" gibberish. But as they said Leicester have now opened the door and more teams and managers will HAVE to perform better.
I, and many others, were screaming this on ToffeeWeb for many years about Everton and Moyes and latterly Martinez that with a different thinking and mentality, a reliance not on finance but team spirit and decent players you can challenge.
Sadly, Everton (and others but I am only interested in Everton), did nothing, coasted along in mediocrity, going with the flow, taking the money, no challenging decisions and have allowed Leicester to charge ahead of us and with a Beer Based Owner and a Foreign Manager.
Yet again we have been left behind due to our own passive acceptance of mediocrity and fear to challenge the status quo and serious lack of courage. So now what are we going to do Leicester have opened the door but are we still scared and too full of acceptance and fear to actually make some big steps into the future. Decisions need to be made or we will just still carry on floating along as we have done for 20 years or so.
Stand Up Everton. State Who You Are And What You Stand For and we the fans, the real owners of this club, will support you. Or forever be quiet and allow the world to pass you by.
Fed up moaning; time to do something. Supposed to be going for my 3 Season Tickets next week I will do of course but I have been watching Everton since 1959 and its getting worse. I can stand tough times and in some ways I am up for a fight but we don't seem to have any fight in us.
I exclude the fans from any blame in our current Board induced circumstances. Evertonians are magnificent.
Up The Blues.
57 Posted 10/04/2016 at 10:09:06
Whatever his shortcomings (and they are many, I am still reeling at the ineptitude of "What a manager!"), if you think BK is our worst ever Chairman then you either haven't been around that long or you have a short memory.
Quite apart from the terrible "Agent" Johnson who BK took over from, please step forward Dr David Marsh, who is pretty much a forgotten man these days but in my opinion, started the rot and failed to capitalise on fantastic opportunities for Everton.
Won the Golden Ticket of Premier League founders and end up nearly bankrupt? Step forward David Marsh.
Think you know more about spotting footballers than our greatest ever manager? Step forward David Marsh (who wouldn't pay 1.8M for Dion Dublin, who very nearly relegated us a few years later playing for Coventry)
I could go in like this but I will just depress myself...
58 Posted 10/04/2016 at 10:10:10
The RedShite sacked their manager after he almost won them the league. This man is a million miles from winning the league.
Go out of the cup and he must be sacked the very next day. That has to be the only thing keeping him in a job at the moment. At least we hope it is. If he is still here next season, it will be more of the same, or god forbid worse... I can't even think about that.
59 Posted 10/04/2016 at 10:13:29
Firstly Robert (#39). My point is that all the anti/negative stuff can only have a detrimental effect on the players at a time when we still have something to play for. I have no issue with fan sites, press, radio etc, just not when we are playing.
Answering Chris and Ian (#33 and #34) may be a little more difficult! Here goes.
1. We have been watching far better and more entertaining football than for many many a year (obviously with odd game exceptions).
2. He buys really well... Lukaku, Lennon, Deulofeu, Barry, McCarthy, Besic, Galloway, Funes Mori... I know Kone and Alcaraz are on that list as well, but generally I would trust him with money to buy well.
3. He may bring us our first trophy in 21 long years.
4. This is a young team, and young players make mistakes and can lack consistency. They will get better next season with the experiences of this one behind them.
5. I think he will change. The track record may suggest not, but his rhetoric is changing from "performance" to "results", albeit this may be down to pressure.
To be a great team 4 things happen. You Form, You Storm, You Reform and then you Perform.
Kendall's Storm was over a Chinese meal, Moyes was told by players he was too dictatorial and mellowed and this team is too nice. It lacks a leader on the field and Martinez has been too soft and too nice.
My comments were that he was worth persevering with for now. He will have to win the cup to survive, and even then he will have to start next season well. I hope he does both, I trust him with the Summer money and if he buys a top keeper, a leader in midfield and another goal scorer, whilst keeping the key players together "I honestly and genuinely believe he can turn us around"
I know I'm in the minority, but imagine us with Joe Hart in goal( he won't want to be Number 2 when City sign Ter Stegen or Neuer) Rooney in a deep midfield role and our leader on the pitch, and Berahino up front. Have I gone too far there!
That's my view, I hope people respect different opinions.
60 Posted 10/04/2016 at 10:21:54
And yeah Phil Williams, why on earth should RM stay 'till the end of the season?
I'll be there against Southampton (dam the ST), are there any 'Martinez Out' style chants going to be sung? Phil W won't like this, but where will being quiet get us?
As for BK, why did he hire a relegation manager and why isn't he getting rud of him? He doesn't want to admit he fucked up that's why, idiot.
61 Posted 10/04/2016 at 10:25:22
I would like to see Rooney return to add some much needed leadership on the pitch too...
62 Posted 10/04/2016 at 10:27:54
63 Posted 10/04/2016 at 10:30:51
The way I look at Everton's current situation, is to ask if we were appointing a new manager at this point in time, given that another manager had been in charge up to this point, would Roberto be the choice to rebuild the team?, the answer has to be a categorical no, there is nothing in his CV as a Premier League manager that would suggest he could take a struggling club and make them better, in fact his CV says the exact opposite.
If we wouldn't appoint him at this juncture, there is no alternative but to rid the club of him and find someone who would fit the bill - who that will be I don't know - but I do know that Roberto is unlikely to rescue Everton and would argue that he is the major reason for Everton being in this present predicament.
64 Posted 10/04/2016 at 10:40:09
(1) Martinez must be sacked now and
(2) Never ever bring Wayne Rooney back to our wonderful football club! He has been past his best for about 4 years and he is Manchester United supporter as far as I am concerned.
It is me and others who are 'once a blue, always a blue'!
65 Posted 10/04/2016 at 10:42:42
If we get West Ham, they will tonk us. I watched them yesterday, that's how to play football they gave their all and played brilliantly. Just because he got us to the semi-final doesn't give him a god-given right to stay.
66 Posted 10/04/2016 at 10:58:24
What Stones did next was poor, but it shouldn't excuse the keeper who could've been proactive in his starting position and should take some culpability. Phil @ 59, can I borrow a lot of money from you?
You live in a very forgiving world. Your positivity is admirable but to me is misguided. You use the word IF. Well,to me " when ifs and buts are squirrels and nuts we'll talk of fat-tailed rodents". Without the vitriol the manager does need to be replaced.
67 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:07:00
You're pissing into a 40 mph head-wind.
I applaud your call for acceptance of the minority view.
I also think many of your positive points regarding Martinez are valid. I believe in time, when everyone's temperature has dropped a bit and the pitchforks and torches have been put down and extinguished respectively, people will say retrospectively that Martinez did do some things very well.
But the fact of the matter is we're not playing well enough any longer. And the players have clearly given up putting in a professional effort.
Martinez simply has to go for the good of Everton.
As do some of the players who have contributed to his demise by going through the motions, but that's another thread and discussion entirely.
Respectfully and without vitriol Phil.
68 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:09:05
Btw, you may get a few banners at Palace but I will be pleasantly surprised if any are raised at Goodison, the Dear Leader will see to that.
69 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:09:51
70 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:11:04
Phil, have you been watching a different Everton than the rest off us? "Better entertaining football"? Really, I find it hard to watch some off the games this season because we have been woeful.
MARTINEZ OUT NOW.
71 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:20:56
Dr David Marsh (4 years) and 'agent 'Johnson (5 years) admittedly were bad but they weren't around long enough to do the damage that Kenwright has done.
As someone else has said if David Moyes didn't take the Man Utd job he'd still be here now. We need strong leadership a la Levy at Tottenham.
72 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:21:18
We are 14th which is a measure of our consistency.
14th place basically says we are slightly better than the teams fighting relegation. Norwich have been fighting relegation all season and we are only 3 wins above them.
Its a disgrace plain and simple and no other team in the top 10 would put up with this at all.
The board supposedly have top 4 aspirations yet they are some how prepared to overlook how crap we have been for two whole seasons. We are a laughing stock.
Everton FC are a fucking joke
73 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:31:35
As a result they ended up with Pochettino.
Kenwright would have continued with Sherwood for 2-3 seasons with the old give him a chance stance.
74 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:37:01
That free kick which he deferred to Mirallas was tailor made for him (West Ham springs to mind) sometimes it would be good for him to just pick the ball up, brush everybody else away and crack on with what he does best.
75 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:41:42
And Jay, I'm so forgiving that if we win the cup and he turns it around next year, as the Fellaini song goes "I'd let you fuck my wife", but good luck with that!!
76 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:42:03
1. We have been watching far better and more entertaining football than for many many a year (obviously with odd game exceptions).
I disagree. The football is at times turgid, slow and one-dimensional. There was little or nothing in the way of entertainment in yesterday's 1-1 draw at Watford. Nor was there in the numerous home defeats this season. I suppose it could be considered entertaining to watch Everton if you are a fan of slapstick comedy.
2. He buys really well.. Lukaku, Lennon, Deulofeu, Barry, McCarthy, Besic, Galloway, Funes Mori.. I know Kone and Alcaraz are on that list as well, but generally I would trust him with money to buy well.
I will give you this one, up to a point. You forgot to add Robles, McGeady and Niasse to your list of buys none of whom could really be considered good buys. I also think that the jury is still out on Deulofeu to be honest. Far to inconsistent and hadn't had a good game in over 6 months.
3. He may bring us our first trophy in 21 long years
The key word here being 'may' which is a favourite word of Martinez and his jam-tomorrow disciples.
4. This is a young team, and young players make mistakes and can lack consistency. They will get better next season with the experiences of this one behind them.
Again, the jam-tomorrow defence. They were a young team last season and most of them were 2 years younger when they finished 5th. Barkely, Lukaku, Deulofeu, McCarthy and Stones all played that year. So why, 2 years later can this excuse be any way legitimate?
5. I think he will change. The track record may suggest not, but his rhetoric is changing from"performance" to "results", albeit this may be down to pressure.
Again zero evidence to support this thesis that he will change. He has not changed thus far throughout his managerial career and, whilst you may detect a subtle shift in his rhetoric, both performances and results have also shifted detrimentally over the season.
Anyway, I'm off to sharpen my pitchfork. But it is good to have a proper debate of the issues.
78 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:49:45
79 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:54:05
He relegated a club because he refused to waver from his "principles". Then once relegated he fucked off for pastures new. Ta da.
That sums up Bobby brown shoes... it's all about him.
80 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:55:03
We are below the likes of West brom, Swansea and the mighty Bournemouth. This in itself is proof of underachieving, which our clown of a manager had said we weren't, and now he's saying we're entering an important stage of the season. As some others have said the whole season is important.
For the record I wanted him gone after the Hull game last season. So,I with quite a few others have been fuming for quite sometime.
81 Posted 10/04/2016 at 11:58:43
82 Posted 10/04/2016 at 12:07:00
Gordon Strachan reckons we should be thankful as we have been a well run club, with a good stadium, good manager and good players and we are witnessing good football.
Just because we used to win things many moons ago, doesn't mean we have a right to demand success, after all Forest, Leeds et al were big clubs back in the day. Be careful what we wish for is the cry from the Scotsman and we must remember to be grateful for having not suffered relegation in the modern era.
I wouldn't usually advocate banners etc at Goodison Park but it would seem that the national media are bemused by our dissatisfaction, probably because they see us in what they believe is our rightful position, rather than as a club that is underachieving.
83 Posted 10/04/2016 at 12:09:45
Horses for courses I guess but I personally preferred the entertainment of the previous regime (namely, Pienaar and Baines combining, Coleman and Baines 'underlapping' and Mirallas generally doing something nice) to the incessant keep-ball and slow build-up of this one. When and if our goal-scorer leaves there is nothing to recommend this system.
Anyway, did anyone like the BBC's coverage of the protest on MOTD? According to Lineker; "one or two" fans are "starting" to get restless and that Murphy fella basically said we all have so much good going on the protest is silly. Only Keown pointed out we are underachieving (what gave it away Martin? 14th place?).
This is what passes for journalism at the Beeb. I am guessing several months have passed since Martinez came even close to receiving support from any poll but the media seem totally oblivious.
84 Posted 10/04/2016 at 12:13:30
What an ungrateful lot we must be to not accept 14th place.
85 Posted 10/04/2016 at 12:17:06
Stone's errors aren't age it's down to coaching by a man who plied his trade in the lower leagues and always had time on the ball (Lawrence) and another two (Jones & Martinez) who wouldn't know what it meant to play in this league if it bit them on the arse.
Galloway plays well, signs a contract and hasn't been seen since. Deulofeo was a 1st team regular 3 seasons ago.
Where's the rest of these unproven youngsters we play?
As for Martinez will change. No he won't. He plays the same style as he did 10 years ago plus you could cut & paste most of his post match comments from as far back as that too.
This man has taken a consistent top 8 club and has systematically taken them apart mentally and physically and to be honest what did fans expect?
A man with a defeat laden CV, some of the heaviest in EPL history, and a relegation.
A manager who has always relied on his charm at parochial clubs he'd previously played for and towns whose sporting outlook is predominantly Rugby which meant there was no real scrutiny or spotlight on him.
For me the FA cup is for those whose league performances and squad quality mean they have no chance of of top 6. Wigan, Hull, Villa even Portsmouth twice & Cardiff, six finalists from the last 8... Where are they now?
Three of this years semi finalists with finish mid table or possibly worse the other will possibly qualify for the Europa anyway. Is this really the company we want to be in?
86 Posted 10/04/2016 at 12:23:59
Good on the fans who made the effort. Just need 30 thousand more,
Chris good post, but your logic is wasted on people with the fingers-crossed mentality that it will all suddenly work out.
14th in his 3rd season is simply not good enough.
87 Posted 10/04/2016 at 12:40:51
I have have to completely and utterly disagree.
We do not play good football, It is so boring, if you think that is entertaining you must be a blast on a night out.
We are not a young team, In Fact we are the 8th youngest team in the Premier league.
Martinez will not change, His record in the premier league has not changed.
I disagree with sign's good players. Lakuku and Besic are good. Does any other player stand out? really? Barry that is it.
Then your deluded if he signs Hart hahaha yer right. Ronney in a deep midfield role Whhhhhaaaaatttt?
IF he wins us the F.A Cup ? He won the F.A Cup with Wigan and they now reside in League 1.
Anyways That's your opinion. '
For the media saying we are not under achieving for the last 10 years Everton finished in the top 7 reached a F.A Cup final. So to finish in the bottom half for 2 seasons in a row is under achieving.
88 Posted 10/04/2016 at 12:44:24
I saw Goals on Sunday t oo. There was an agenda there possibly. It started whe Chris Kamara, who covered it for Sky yesterday, started off with 'there's Bill Kenwright, I had a good chat with him yesterday...' Ben Shepherd then showed shots of the banners and Kamara started of with ' the trouble now is Leicester are up the top of the league and now some supporters........'
Shepherd cut across him by quoting from a text from a supporter saying it's been a problem for 15 months etc.
And that it's not just about now.
Effectively it was ignored and the whitewash Patrick mentioned started.
I was suspicious Kamarafollowed up his comment about chatting to Kenwright with his Leicester comments.
BK ' eh Chris do us a favour on the show tomorrow.......'
Who knows but fuck me, these idiots spout some shite wherever it comes from
89 Posted 10/04/2016 at 12:47:36
They noted that the United fans wanted to like their manager but they have been served up some of the worst football in the last 15 months, that they have witnessed for many a year and will not accept another season of it. Meanwhile over at Goodison....?
90 Posted 10/04/2016 at 12:50:57
91 Posted 10/04/2016 at 12:58:40
I'm dreading the performance at Palace now and the prospect of that smug prick Pardew's self satisfied grid on the telly, followed by coming back from Goodison next Saturday, frustrated by Groundhog Day again.
It's driving me barmy.
92 Posted 10/04/2016 at 12:59:00
Just Checked the Odds and Martinez is Now 8/1 for the next Manager to go.
8/1 ! This time last weekend he was 20/1 and pretty safe according to the Bookies.
Smoke and Fire? I didn't see MOTD2 or Kammy Comments.
Is the writing on the wall? I hope so.
93 Posted 10/04/2016 at 12:59:32
Of course, Moshiri may get a bit despondent if next season shows no improvement and then the fur may fly. But for now, we must endure. My information is that 'What a Manager' was a genuine expression of how he feels about Roberto. After all, he thought of Moyes as a brother!
94 Posted 10/04/2016 at 13:03:34
95 Posted 10/04/2016 at 13:12:35
The Newcastle bloke on Sunday Supplement was clearly knowledgable and committed Newcastle supporter and had some firm views about the state of affairs at that benighted club. Pity some local journalist who was equally Knowledgable and committed about Everton could appear on that show.
Oh I forgot....
96 Posted 10/04/2016 at 13:25:52
"We have been watching far better and more entertaining football than for many many a year ( obviously with odd game exceptions)."
I agree with Chris's comments. This 'Everton are exciting to watch' spouted out by the media is a fuckin' nonsense. I have a ST and I am consistently bored by watching Everton - going to the match is a chore. Pass pass pass pass x 350 and the ball is back with the keeper. It's excruciating and incredibly annoying. What the media see is highlights; yes we occasionally see a goal and think 'wow' so they see this coupled with Bournemouth and Chelsea away type games and we're 'exciting', it's not fuckin' exciting for us, is it?! I far preferred watching us under Moyes, I looked forward to going to the match then.
As for the pundits, Murphy is an absolute tit, how on earth do the likes of him and Owen get on TV? Baffles me. The others mentioned are in the main thick as fuck and get wound up in the 'ooh City and their riches, etc.', they have no ability to think independently, they're an embarrassement. And this is why we as fans have to make noise. Fuck the pundits and as for BK, he is useless at the moment, he's as bad as the Spanish clown.
What also doesn't help is when players employed by the club come on the radio. Graham Stuart (on talksport yesterday) said it was all fine, etc., but he'd prob. get sacked if he slagged off the club. I met him when I was in the Chang Box (bit nicer than my usual seat!) and he was a nice guy; great food and drink, it made the defeat (West Brom) less hurtful :D
97 Posted 10/04/2016 at 13:28:47
If it was liverpool in 14th place with the 2nd worst home form in the league will they be saying all is fine in the red half? They were getting the knives out for Rodgers when he was 6th in the league.
98 Posted 10/04/2016 at 13:31:51
Most of you all blame one man the manager. So if we can beat (and deservedly so) Chelsea, every player putting in a shift, why can't we do that in the league one week later against Arsenal?
The players cross that white line and perform, or try to the blame also is on them! Most of them are international players for god sake!
And one other point I want to make is: Why, if Martinez as people say, has lost the dressing room... a load of rubbish it is not Martinez or any other manager suffering, it is us, the paying public who is. Over paid players are a disgrace, frauding the loyal fans.
And when you wish for Martinez to be gone, just look at Newcastle a prime example: a top class manager in Benitez cannot even get a win there.
Let's get the FA Cup out of the way, then let's see what position we are in. Otherwise, we may as well not turn up for that game.
99 Posted 10/04/2016 at 13:38:00
Spurs have wasted millions rebuilding a team every 2 or 3 years and firing managers. They are a joke it's just at last, perhaps by fluke or law of averages, Levy got a recruitment right. He got Redknapp right but then Villas Boas and Sherwood wrong to follow all the other recruits he got wrong before like Ramos or Jol.
People talk like we've sat on our hands while other clubs have planned well. No they haven't! Spurs and Leicester have both stumbled on a chemistry as have West Ham. At the other end of the scale in terms of waste, chopping and changing lie Villa and Newcastle so it shows what a risky and chaotic strategy it is.
Martinez should go, but I do not want our club to mirror those other clubs. I was glad we stayed with Moyes because after a few years a certain standard was created (which didn't include finishing beneath 8th let alone 14th). It was just frustrating we never had any money. I think it was fair enough we gave Martinez a third season and would hope future managers would get more than half a season like Levy is prone to doing for a club that haven't exactly got a pedigree for league success.
100 Posted 10/04/2016 at 13:42:02
14th in the league
2nd worse home form in the league.
2nd worst home goals against in the whole of europe.
Players devoid of belief
Manager out banners
Fan apathy to results
Fast approaching worst home record in our club history
Name another top 10 club in the english prem which would put up with this? Would Liverpool FC put up with the above?
101 Posted 10/04/2016 at 13:48:01
They are building a new ground and have ear marked the lucrative NFL league for matches there.
Whereas we with kenwright sit in 14th, watching our young talent get squandered our team plummet, our old stadium rot away.
102 Posted 10/04/2016 at 13:58:35
103 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:02:26
I don't think the players are entirely blameless in all this. They are all talented and most are regular internationals who should be doing better regardless of who is in charge.
104 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:06:19
105 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:12:21
Spurs fans mostly dislike Levy because of all these issues, it's just this time he rolled the dice and got a six. I don't want our club to be one that keeps rolling the dice. That mind set can make you a Villa or a Newcastle just as easily as it can give you a one season wonder like Spurs or Leicester are enjoying.
While Martinez does need to go and this board have their failings, we must stop getting carried away by what other clubs have been doing and be fooled into thinking they're the working model to copy.
The difference is the manager. I think theirs could get the same form out of our squad. But as I said, for every 6 that Levy rolls, he's rolled a lot of 2's and unlike us has the spending power to patch things over. We cannot afford chopping and changing and nor would I want us to. But this coaching team have had three seasons and the board need to find their dice.
The last few performances have been insipid, incompetent and pathetic. I get extremely concerned when I can predict our results (negatively speaking) which I have done in the last three. At least last season we were unpredictable but now we have forgotten how to win.
106 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:13:20
I asked him of a Rooney return and this rested on Mourinho getting the Man Utd job. Rooney likes him, otherwise it could happen; it has been spoken about with the players in training.
On our new signing Niasse, he had been told that he is quick, very clumsy and is nowhere near ready to play in the Premier League and the general feeling in the squad was he would not "fit in" this Everton team whatever that means.
It could all be a load of bollocks, but he has told me stuff in the past that was true.
So then Martinez is staying folks!
107 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:22:45
Saints away, we played sideways and the defence were a joke. Fulham away we started messing about but luckily they were woeful so we beat them.
The man is a contradiction. Why play so loosely at the back (he'll call it brave) but then not continue the courage of your convictions with two or sometimes three defensive midfielders in front of them. Why not keep it tighter and then have a more attacking middle section who can carry the ball?
He'll be gone soon anyway. No manager escapes when the OUT banners come out and it starts popping up in the press. It's a matter of time now.
108 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:26:34
It may of taken him a few years, but nowhere near as long as it has took Kenwright to lead us up the garden path. He runs Everton like the branch of a model railway club.
109 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:28:03
BK - is more of an idiot than I thought
RM - should not be allowed anymore spending money
110 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:35:26
As stated, I am not claiming BK is preferable or better. Different circumstances and I think Levy has had some luxuries BK hasn't.
111 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:36:31
I'd really love to hear BK explain where his faith comes from. I understand wanting to give managers time and think that is admirable but 3 years is long enough when the performances, results and consistency seem to be heading downhill rather than up.
It may be up to the fans to force the situation a bit. Not sure what that would constitute; perhaps more banners or planes or maybe a walkout or match boycott (though that always seems unlikely). Otherwise it sounds like another season of hoping this leopard will change his spots.
112 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:37:20
His lineup always has the best striker in the league on his own with nobody to pass to. It is not brave to play from the back when conceding stupid goals week after week.
113 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:39:18
Now I'm confused, I mean I've seen loads of angry posts on TW recently saying 'JUST FUCKING GO!'
Can it really be that these petulant, screamed into the ether posts have had no effect?
Could it be that threads/posts about our new manager were a complete waste of time and energy and nothing more than wishful thinking?
Naaaaaaaah - he'll be gone by 5 pm.
114 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:39:30
Luckily charitable Everton was there to give him the ultimate in job security. But people are fooled easily. Even when he's gone, wherever there are chairmen and boards lacking in ambition and scrutiny of his past results, he'll find work.
115 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:47:56
116 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:52:53
It looks like Kenwright wants a little more time to prove he's right and we are all wrong!
117 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:54:30
118 Posted 10/04/2016 at 14:59:04
Could you please put a thread up for anyone who wants a Martinez Out demonstration on Saturday.
119 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:00:16
This is the thing RM can not provide an answer to and if he cant then he must be moved on so someone else can provide the answer.
120 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:06:17
That should be us!!
121 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:09:03
Leicester City play some decent football also.
122 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:12:50
123 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:14:36
What the fuck have we been playing for 2 years?
124 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:21:54
I'll be laughing next season when they are fighting relegation. I know we'll be fighting relegation as well.
125 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:24:50
It's a sad indictment on football, and EFC in particular, that a bunch of average journeymen can win the title. Good luck to them but it just shows how bad we've become that we're 30+ points behind fucking Leicester!!
126 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:25:25
127 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:26:52
It's disgraceful and to think there are people still defending him. Unbelievable!
128 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:29:33
129 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:36:51
They play the way I would like to see us play and if we did I bet we'd be challenging them if not above them in the league. Every single player is fit and play high tempo from the first minute to the last. We're knackered after 20 minutes.
They always look for the forward pass, Play to their players strengths; Can close out games; Never give up regardless; Have a manager who can man manage
The list is endless and a complete opposite to our mob.
So what if they get embarrassed next season in the Champions League? At least they got in the sodding thing!
Maybe they will get relegated next season but so might we especially if this clown is still here.
Good on Leicester. The same arseholes who are slagging them would probably be saying something quite different if we were half as good.
Anti-football. Fucking unbelievable !
130 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:38:58
Don't be jealous of other teams because we have a manager that is unable to produce the promises he made.
Congratulations to the Leicester manger for playing a system that the players he has are comfortable with that produces results. Unlike the manager we have who wants the players to play a system that they are uncomfortable with that does not produce results.
131 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:43:17
As for luck, you make your own. They are top of the league on merit over the season, as every winner always is. And for the same reason Everton are languishing near the bottom, still not mathematically safe from relegation in Mid-April, which is disgraceful.
Take the 8 pts that my reckoning tells me is what Lukaku's goals have brought us and that puts us just above Norwich, six points adrift of Palace. I haven't factored in additional points that other teams may have gained in those matches either.
It will be Mission Accomplished Agent Martinez next season if this clown is not sent packing.
132 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:44:05
Leicester, yeah, shite aren't they, absolutely shite. They were fall on lucky at Goodison.
Mahrez fancy dan;
Huth two titles already, lucky;
Drinkwater just got an England cap, but hopeless;
Morgan Sunday league player;
Schmeichel give me Tim Howard any day...
Defo 'Journeymen'. I mean they're not that far ahead of us, what we're 14th, they're only 10 points clear in 1st... Shite. Defo.
133 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:44:29
Mahrez, Kante (what a find), Vardy would probably be in the starting line up at many Premier League clubs... Huth & Morgan â€“ no nonsense defenders... Schmeichel!
As for the rest of their squad, they play like their places depend on it, if you get what I mean.
I think you are being totally unfair in your assessments of Leicester City.
134 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:51:00
135 Posted 10/04/2016 at 15:57:14
136 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:02:30
Like we did in 85, they have bought (100%!) into the idea of 'team.'
They have all embraced the idea that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.
They are mentally and physically strong and incredibly hard-working
Their 'star' players have seemingly kept their heads down this season and concentrated on one thing (so not going on international duty and telling the local press 'I'm dead good me, Real Madrid should buy me lad, swear down').
Today against Sunderland, they were 1-0 up with 88 mins on the clock, yet it was Vardy making their right back panic.
(we're so mentally fragile, even a two goal lead does little to calm us).
Nonsense unless you think football is all about names on a piece of paper.
'That should be us'?
Should it fuck, they deserve it because they work harder, are mentally stronger and appear to be a lot fitter and more committed.
One more thing, in 1985, on paper, Spurs were loads better (ie: glamourous, flashy, expensive) than us, but we steam-rolled them along with everyone else and won the league at a canter.
As for Christopher Marston (124) yeah that's what it is - Leicester are 'lucky' (rolls eyes, tuts, wearily shakes head).
137 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:04:23
138 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:06:49
139 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:08:02
Yes, I am bitter and jealous. I am enormously frustrated with our underperforming morons, manager included, but that doesn't make me an admirer of Leicester and their style of play, far from it.
Personally, I'd like Spurs to win the title. They have a great manager, great squad, play great football and, like us, are in the shadow of their neighbours. So, give me Spurs any day over Leicester.
140 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:11:23
141 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:22:15
I watched Real Soc play Barca yesterday. For all Barca are lauded their tippy tapped stopped at half time and everything coming out of defence bypassed midfield ! Same last week in the El Classico second half. Both teams played your "old fashioned long ball game and hunted down every ball with uncanny levels of fitness"
I reckon what's good enough for Real Madrid and Barca is good enough for Leicester City.
Just a pity our manager insists we play a type of football that is outdated and in your words anti-football
142 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:30:20
I'm sorry if I've mentioned another team (capital offence by the sound of it) as the Premier League roundup thread isn't to be found. I'm not, as has been inferred, defending our "style" of play, far from it. I was just giving an opinion.
143 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:30:29
They're a breath of fresh air.
144 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:31:32
145 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:35:35
Essentially, Leicester are a very well engineered counter-attacking side. Good for them. Above all, they have gone out and done it, with no bullshit. If we'd got a proper manager, I think we could have matched them and played more attractively than them. But we didn't.
146 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:38:57
We have a manager who looks at the squad and thinks win or lose you will play my way and if you cant do it you will still be doing it my way anyway.
147 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:42:56
So what do we do? Tip-tap-tip-tap outside of the opposition box going sideways, backwards, forwards, sideways, backwards, forwards, sideways, ooops, lost the ball.......fuck.
148 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:43:22
If you retread your post of 139, first paragraph.
You might be describing Everton circa 1984
Spurs have spent millions getting to where they are now. Leicester hardly anything.
Also remember for a team who's football you don't like as it is apparently "long ball" just bear in mind they have one of the best midfielders in the Premier League with Drinkwater, in line for player of the year, just recognised by being selected for England and probably MotM the other night.
Doesn't really support the "long ball" theory, in my opinion.
149 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:47:30
Colin, Leicester being anti-football? That sounded very much like one of RM's denial (when we lost to WBA)
150 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:50:47
151 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:55:33
152 Posted 10/04/2016 at 16:57:51
We, on the other hand are an absolute shambles. I still read that we have done amazing in the cups. Hmmm... really? Yes we are still in the FA Cup and I really hope we win it. (Going to Wembley in hope rather than any kind of expectation. But to say we have done amazing.... well, in both the League Cuo and FA cup who have we beat that you could say that was a great result? Chelsea I guess and Man City at home. Go through the list of rounds and we have been extremely lucky with the draw. Barnsley, Reading, Norwich at home, Boro, Dagenham, Carlisle, Bournemouth, they are games that even we should be winning. Now I understand that you can only beat whats in front of you, but for the, very few admittedly, Martinez apologists, hardly an amazing run in the cups.
We laboured yet again yesterday. Can you imagine if that kind of game is showpieced to the world in May in the Cup Final? I am running out of patience with everything Everton these days. As I said earlier, I am not really interested what other clubs are doing and to say that every club have had their struggles this season is just making piss-poor excuses. It is a poor league, end of and Everton are finding a ridiculous number of ways to make it poorer.
I saw that Kenwright was in attendance yesterday, did he see the banners yesterday or did he conveniently look the other way. Oh and to all who think the protesters are deflecting the players focus and doing more harm than good, well its worth remembering that once the game started, the fans backed the team all the way. They didn't spend all game shouting "Martinez Out", they clapped and cheered and yet again were rewarded with a totally insipid display.
So to all the Martinez backers, 2 years ago, when goodwill was still there and the crowd were completely supportive, what was the excuse for the shite displays then? Did the toffee lady not save them any sweets? Was the tea at half time cold? Or was it because Martinez couldn't run the proverbial piss up in a brewery that was the cause of awful results/games?
To a certain extent the players have to take a smattering of responsibility however, they are all good players. We saw that when Moyes was there. The defenders knew how to defend and keep clean sheets. Baines and Coleman knew how to attack and the wingers knew how to cover them. Martinez has taken a perfectly good defensive unit, who could also support the attack and turned them into a frail caricature of their former selves. Has Barkley really improved at the rate he should have? Imo absolutely not. The lad is clearly unfit and cannot last the full 90 minutes at normal pace. The same can be said for Deulofeu and Lukaku. Yes they may be on the pitch, but to have young men wheezing after a burst of pace is shambolic. Martinez is responsible for the physical fitness of these young men and clearly it isn't good enough.
I'm actually struggling to find a positive that Martinez has brought to the club. Lukaku I suppose, after that I would be clutching at straws. His refusal to accept that games have not been good enough is continually insulting the fans. To be honest, I am actually quite glad that he completely misread the Baines situation as it finally woke up the majority of fans and also the Echo and made a firm statement to Martinez that we aren't going to tolerate your nonsense anymore.
I agree that we need to show some kind of protest at the home game against Southampton. The football shows no promise, is awful to watch and has been for the best part of 2 calender years. This myth of exciting football is exactly that and anybody who actually goes to the game and has to endure it knows that. Hopefully, the apathy that has been endemic at our games for a good while is now going to be replaced by an anger at what has been done to our team and club.
This should now be the time where we need to make our feelings known, that we wont put up with the drivel Martinez comes out with and we also won't tolerate the tepid insipid dull to boring losing football we have endured for 2 years. Enough is enough. Get Martinez and all his ineffective hangers on out of our club so we can begin the healing process from this festering wound that is Martinez that is slowly becoming Septic!!
153 Posted 10/04/2016 at 17:07:47
We are not excellent at anything. We don't always look to be working hard and our fitness is questionable. We make a complete hash of the simple things like clearing the ball, passing back, set pieces both in defence and in attack.
Perhaps they've been lucky in that they caught a lot of teams off guard before Xmas but all power to them and more fool the other teams being complacent and arrogant enough to think they could beat them without working as hard as them.
McCarthy's goal yesterday was very Spurs or Leicester-esque. If we'd chased and pressed more this season we would have scored more and let less in but instead we're too slow and play in our own half far too much which means the players don't have to be fitter than the opposition.
154 Posted 10/04/2016 at 17:09:35
"...most of them wouldn't get into a top 6 side with the exception of Mahrez, Kante and, possibly, Vardy."
They are are all in a top six side Leicester City.
155 Posted 10/04/2016 at 17:23:19
I will miss the Southampton game, due to a holiday, but I hope that the crowd make their feelings known throughout the game.
Will Billy Boy be there, the main cause of all our problems? I doubt it, nothing will keep him away from Wembley and the limelight of the day.
156 Posted 10/04/2016 at 17:25:26
157 Posted 10/04/2016 at 17:26:27
158 Posted 10/04/2016 at 17:28:01
159 Posted 10/04/2016 at 17:30:43
Any Everton fan who begrudges Leicester the title should be ashamed of themselves, because they have bought in to the Sky narrative that only the anointed (by them) should have that right.
160 Posted 10/04/2016 at 17:44:44
"We are not excellent at anything"...
Yep, just about sums us up really.
161 Posted 10/04/2016 at 17:48:05
I shall throw a bit of anger Kenwright's way from you too mate next Saturday.
162 Posted 10/04/2016 at 17:53:12
163 Posted 10/04/2016 at 17:54:43
However, there is nothing lucky about being fit and the current Everton side do not look fit.
164 Posted 10/04/2016 at 18:07:43
It wasn't nice, it pissed me off and summed up the general bias of all and sundry in the media; rather than praising a quite incredible achievement (for Vardy read Marcus Bent), we were slated from all corners.
So that is why, should Leicester win, I will be throwing a bloody party.
165 Posted 10/04/2016 at 18:35:55
Brian 07729571794 or br.Murray5466@yahoo.com
166 Posted 10/04/2016 at 18:45:17
1985. Sheffield Wednesday 0-1 Everton
1987. Arsenal 0-1 Everton
None of those victories were very pretty. And not one Evertonian was very concerned about that. Well done, Leicester.
167 Posted 10/04/2016 at 18:45:52
Her reply: "Why do they even go, the people running the club are only interested in money and don't worry about banners and supporters writing up, the only thing that will get their attention is seeing a half-empty ground."
Now my wife is not a sports fan and does not realize how hard it is for supporters not to go to a game; unfortunately she just has to put up with my constant complaining about this manager.
But as I no longer live in England, I will not tell a supporter to miss a game, as if I still lived in Liverpool, I don't think I could do it; saying that, I think she makes a good argument with her comment.
Thank you, Mr Martinez, for another miserable weekend.
168 Posted 10/04/2016 at 19:11:49
Maybe we just ain't brave enough! And maybe the board should become valiant and dump the burden that we are carrying, who is Roberto Martinez!!
169 Posted 10/04/2016 at 20:23:44
170 Posted 10/04/2016 at 20:28:14
Most of us would put up with winning the Premier League or at least getting near to doing so even if we had to suffer the'silky skills' of Huth and Morgan in doing so.
As a Philistine, I might even be able to sacrifice the special attributes of Stonesy and Barks. And Romelu wouldn't be missed if Vardy could always finish like he did today.
There I've said it. I'm only interested in having a winning team!
171 Posted 10/04/2016 at 23:08:49
To call most of their players rejects and journeymen is a joke. They've certainly put our squad of internationals to shame this season.
"That should be us" Colin says. Why should it? Let's leave that kind of arrogance to fans of other clubs.
173 Posted 11/04/2016 at 00:18:52
174 Posted 11/04/2016 at 00:30:34
"Everton have sounded out former Argentina and Chile boss Marcelo Bielsa to be their next manager."
Please be true, anyone but RM.
175 Posted 11/04/2016 at 02:42:54
To also describe them as playing (only) "an old-fashioned long ball game" is a total misrepresentation of how they actually do play, whilst (not for the first time in recent weeks) the poster in question again slyly infers the club have only achieved their lofty position by indulging in industrial scale doping by saying they "hunt down every ball with an uncanny level of fitness."
As others have pointed out, the poster's claim that "man for man, most of them wouldn't get into a top 6 side" comically ignores that ALL of them currently play for the runaway leaders at the top of the league.
There is further (unintentional, I'm sure...) comic genius in his posts when he says Leicester "remind me of Clough's Forest side." That would be the back-to-back double league and European Cup winners, then ...
For an Evertonian to begrudge Leicester what I and I'm sure the overwhelming majority of neutrals hope they achieve winning the title seems quite bizarre to me.
It strikes me as somehow who doesn't know their history because there are many parallels between the make-up of today's Leicester and our own all-conquering team of the 1980s, who also 'shook up' the existing order in the league.
A mixture of home-grown players, lower league recruits and patched up injury prone 'past-its', whose 'hunting in packs' with 'uncanny levels of fitness', a self-belief that never accepted a lost cause, a TEAM of winners in every sense of the word, swept all before them, both domestically and on the European stage.
A really perverse sequence of posts, Colin Glassar.
176 Posted 11/04/2016 at 03:12:06
I think you've lost the plot, mate. If only we had half of what Leicester have. True team spirit, superb fitness, good tactics and preparation, no big heads touting themselves for Champions League and Internationals, and I hasten to add no little skill.
I would give £100m for Vardy, Kante and Mahrez and even that Drinkwater was MotM for England recently.
No... think again, Colin.
177 Posted 11/04/2016 at 04:10:22
Bill: "I'll have some of that."
Bill: "He did say Champions League" as he looks at his fellow board members.
178 Posted 11/04/2016 at 06:51:00
179 Posted 11/04/2016 at 06:56:31
With RM in charge we could almost certainly 'do a Villa' and reach the cup final this year and be relegated next season. After all, that's what Martinez is good at, being relegated!
So before continuing to support this inept clown any longer, please beware of what you wish for. Next season's relegation fight has already begun in a way and the first thing we should do to keep away from that trapdoor is to get rid of the man who will almost certainly drag us through it.
180 Posted 11/04/2016 at 07:24:19
Add to the fact that if you take Lukaku's goals from this team where would we be? Make no mistake, we are only not in the relegation zone because of his goals.
The only shred of hope the board have of keeping this team together is removing Martinez now and replacing him with someone who commands respect and could keep the star players at the club.
So we need to stop mentioning Koeman and the likes and aim really high. Pay what it takes as the most important man at the club is the manager.
Our star players gave Martinez his second chance this year and he's blown it.
As much as I like him, if we do go down the Eddie Howe route, then he is a project manager, a good coach but he won't be able to talk big players here with no European football and languishing in the bottom half. Only a top manager can save us for next season.
181 Posted 11/04/2016 at 08:04:02
Everton are now a joke, the red shite punters and fans can't wait for the derby, while most of us are rightly shitting our selves.
We should have hounded Martinez out of town after the Hull game. Sad, sad times to be a blue.
182 Posted 10/04/2016 at 08:13:28
But just for my take on this Leicester situation, fucking brilliant, they are where they are because at this moment they're the best at what they do. Football isn't played on paper, don't matter who you've got, if your manager can get the best out of every individual to make a team then so be it and Ranieri has it in spades.
Bollocks to the Sky lot, piss on their chips that would (Leicester winning). I've got a lot of mates from the Leicester area, wish I could feel the way they do now.
183 Posted 11/04/2016 at 12:13:55
I'll tell you what, great finishing from Vardy and fantastic work ethic, he's better than Rom.
184 Posted 11/04/2016 at 12:17:33
We have no defensive coach, we have clueless predictable attacking play and a midfield full of holding players unable to utilise the wingers.
On top of this, we continually have key players out of position and a manager who is totally and utterly unable to motivate, who baffles both team and players with ridiculous substitutions and who continually chats utter garbage in pre- and post-match interviews.
There is no doubt we will be safe from relegation this season but we have gone from a regular top 10 side with Moyes to a regular bottom 10 with Martinez.
The most worrying aspect of Martinez tenure is the comparison with Wigan albeit we have more quality we display the same frailties in failing to see out games and conceding stupid goals. I would be prepared to give the Spaniard one more season but only under the condition that Alan Stubbs was made assistant coach or at the very least made chief defensive coach.
185 Posted 11/04/2016 at 14:13:49
I just cannot believe anyone would even contemplate giving Martinez another season under any circumstance or condition.
Do you not realise the damage this clown could actually do with another season.
Leicester have proved like so many teams that winning can become a habit.
Villa, Newcastle and Sunderland have proven like others that losing can become a habit, regardless of managerial and player changes mid season.
If this dope was let loose next season by the time you and people with your idea, including the board, realised we needed to change the manager, it may be far too late.
186 Posted 11/04/2016 at 14:23:06
Welcome to the shark tank. You're the chum...
You can't post something out of anger and show you're human! Even if it's a massive frustration at the opportunity lost for your beloved club; latently showing how much you care.
Someone cue "Welcome to the Jungle." I'm off to watch recorded MotD highlights of that wonderful over-achieving team full of long ball merchants and cart horses that I hope win the league since Everton clearly won't.
Colin doesn't need defending. He's a big boy and one of TW's all-star contributors in my opinion. But really? A man even apologizes and says his emotions and frustration got the best of him and some folks still have a pop?
The Blue family... Odd the way some treat a family member when they've reacted emotionally and then apologize for it.
187 Posted 11/04/2016 at 14:35:34
I think Colin got pulled up for remarks not immediately after the Watford game when obviously emotions and frustrations are high, but for remarks made 24 hours later!
188 Posted 11/04/2016 at 14:35:56
189 Posted 11/04/2016 at 15:05:50
OH FUCK OFF, JAMIE, YOU'RE TALKING SHITE!!!!
Er.. sorry about that, just me showing I'm human and massively frustrated and I care.
(I fuckin' love this posting bollocks get-out-of-jail-free card!)
190 Posted 11/04/2016 at 15:26:03
191 Posted 11/04/2016 at 15:44:34
The Premier League should just get two arbitrary teams.... let's just say those that are presently sitting 5th and 8th and have them play each other to decide the title.
Or just award both of them the title!
I'm sure everyone would see the sense in that.
192 Posted 11/04/2016 at 15:59:48
I posted just after we'd lost to them that I thought they were not a particularly good side but they were a great TEAM. They make the absolute most of their talents, play at 100 miles an hour, chase and harry every other team and take their chances when they come. Do they play ball-achingly, wonderful, flowing football, full of silky skills and trickery? No. Do they play as a team with passion and, like we were told under Moyes, punch above their weight, using every ounce of their supreme fitness? Too bloody right they do. And wouldn't I just love it if we played with our squad with the effort and passion and defensive nous that they do.
And let's be fair, the 10 penalties they've "won" is the most of any club. Vardy, in particular, is very adept at leaving his foot there so that he can appear to have been tripped in much the same was as slippy G used to and which pundits now say is clever play. I think it's cheating but there you go.
Whether they will get shown up in Champions League football remains to be seen, I suspect that, unless they buy sensibly, they may well do and it will also be interesting to see if other Premier League clubs get a bit more wise to their style next year and counter it with a more pragmatic approach. But I wish we'd have had they balls, opportunity, whatever, to have brought Ranieri in instead of Martinez.
193 Posted 11/04/2016 at 16:27:39
Er, sorry... I actually don't want a hug. Would be breaking some man law... written somewhere...
194 Posted 11/04/2016 at 20:07:22
What an embarrassment. I'd love him to leave as much as everyone else, but will it happen? Probably not.
Still, at least my new favourite team, Leicester, are looking good for the league title the only decent thing to come out of this season if you ask me.
From the shocking Utd game, which I was disinterested, I didn't even bother watching the Watford game probably the first time I've not even really thought about an Everton game since I was about 8. Martinez's Everton have done this to me, and I never thought I'd say it, but I have very little interest in watching us play at the moment.
When I looked at the result, there was barely a flicker... but I don't hate him for taking away the passion, and the joy, I just want him to go away so I can get back into it.
195 Posted 11/04/2016 at 20:14:04
196 Posted 11/04/2016 at 20:23:05
They're the best team in the division, and that's an absolute fact.
198 Posted 11/04/2016 at 21:57:56
199 Posted 11/04/2016 at 22:11:40
Different words for the same thing as far as I'm aware I've never seen any difference in the terminology. Good side, good team, same thing, Ray.
200 Posted 12/04/2016 at 08:13:58
201 Posted 12/04/2016 at 09:12:15
(I'm referring to Martinez.)
202 Posted 12/04/2016 at 17:51:51
203 Posted 12/04/2016 at 17:54:49
204 Posted 12/04/2016 at 18:10:12
205 Posted 12/04/2016 at 18:37:45
206 Posted 12/04/2016 at 19:50:18
The atmosphere at Goodison is toxic. No wonder we play better away from home. Ross et al are petrified of making a mistake when they get the ball. I was at Watford on Saturday and the positive point of the Martinez out banner? Nothing, nada, zip. Put it away and get behind the team.
Stones is crucified for every little mistake. He's 21, FFS. Lukaku is constantly vilified by some fans. I'll bet they can't wait to get away from Goodison! Before you all start on me with "it's Martinez's fault," its not. You open your mouth and shout at a 21-/22-year-old with the kind of vulgarity I've witnessed home and away and it's your fault too!
207 Posted 12/04/2016 at 19:50:36
208 Posted 12/04/2016 at 19:57:21
I understand what you're driving at, but in conversation they both mean the same thing.
209 Posted 12/04/2016 at 20:00:51
The real problem is, When is Roberto going?
Back to the Cabernet for me...
210 Posted 12/04/2016 at 22:05:57
211 Posted 13/04/2016 at 14:04:33
"Mr Smith. I am an Everton fan and have been so since 1963. I have just watched a clip of you in conversation on the BBC with Chris Sutton. You, sadly, are deluded in believing that an FA Cup win will be acceptable for the majority, the vast majority in fact, of Everton fans. Martinez is as deluded a football manager as Mr Sutton all but stated. Hopefully there's a journalist out there willing and able to recognise the facts regarding Martinez throughout his Premier league career. He fails year upon year and you should publicly acknowledge that if you consider yourself to be a journalist of integrity.".
Hi Don â€“ thanks for getting in touch, and sorry it's taken me a while to reply. I'm not sure if this will help, but this is something I wrote a few weeks ago (before the Chelsea game in the cup, if you can get behind the paywall) on Everton: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/Martinezs-relentless-positivity-just-jars-now-who-is-he-trying-to-fool-vc9j8prvr
That piece caused me quite a lot of bother with people I know at Everton, but as you can see, I wouldn't class myself as an apologist. I do like Roberto as a person, but that doesn't mean I can't recognise his flaws.
I should say, though, that I think the challenge at Everton â€“ challenge rather than problem â€“ is bigger than the manager (though I agree, I think he needs to improve quickly or Moshiri will ask questions). The PL moves so quickly and there are so many upwardly mobile teams, as well as Chelsea, United, Arsenal etc, that they have to sprint just to keep up, and that hasn't always been easy. You can make a case that Martinez has held them back, but I have to admit I'm not sure there is a realistic manager out there who could get them up to the speed they need. Hopefully the new investor makes a difference.
Thanks again for getting in touch,
I just wonder whether anyone else wants to try to publicly up the anti-Martinez campaign because the media at large are at last starting to take notice.
As an aside I'm proud to stand with fans such as Chris Leyland (#76), Dave Ganley (#152), Brian Porter (#179) and John Keating throughout.
212 Posted 13/04/2016 at 14:45:37
"The PL moves so quickly and there are so many upwardly mobile teams, as well as Chelsea, United, Arsenal etc, that they have to sprint just to keep up, and that hasn't always been easy. You can make a case that Martinez has held them back, but I have to admit I'm not sure there is a realistic manager out there who could get them up to the speed they need. Hopefully the new investor makes a difference."
Perhaps if our board of directors had have reacted sooner i.e. at the end of the 2014-15 campaign, we wouldn't be in such a mess on the pitch. Typical of Everton FC to find itself with new investment but with more problems on the playing side than it has faced for over a decade. Is this the reason that Mr Moshiri didn't complete a full takeover? Chickens coming home to roost, it could be argued.
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