Fans show discontent with Martinez at Goodison

No-one is happy but today was not the reason we are not happy, it's what has gone on before it for nearly two years and the evidence that we are very much on a downward slope.

I said after the United match that I expect Martinez to see the season out but surely the decision to remove him will then happen once the games are over and finished.

We were dross today yes, whilst it's a change to actually see Everton win a home game, this result will have no bearing on Martinez staying.

The reason BK is still pulling the strings, I stayed behind but felt I was alone in my part of the ground so buggered off.

Bournemouth were much the better team for parts of the match but three scrappy points saves the day again eh!

The board did meet and were split on whether Matinez should be sacked. But apparently Moshiri wants him gone.

I am sure this guy believed what he was telling me and I know it's another rumour from someone on the fringe of things. I repeat it here because I believed him.

I have been a season ticket holder on the Gwladys Street for more than 30 years and I can assure you that today the vast majority of us applauded the team at the end of the match.

The back 4 were good, Barkley and Lennon came into it more in the second half and Cleverley was man of the match. And yet again more promise from the kids.

As for the plane and banner, just another example of egotistical posturing, as at Southampton. They should do it more often; each time they do, we win.

Martinez is going nowhere except to become the second manager to take Everton down.

BTW, does anyone know what happened to the Blue Union? Fizzled out? Ostracised into oblivion?

Typical of those in charge at Everton to play the same tactics you would expect from some far right dictatorship. I was half expecting a water canon to be brought out to disperse the protesters. Though, good choice in some of the tunes played it has to be said. Blue Monday by New Order was a particular favourite.

Playing Elton John's 'I guess that's why the call it the Blues' was a low blow though. Let's hope there are more present against Norwich if the status quo remains.

On the second fly past hardly a sound. Very disappointing.

It would have been a very easy way to make a convincing protest.

You as ticket buying fans hold the solution. Buy and support the board or protest and stop buying. There is not an option of keep buying and protest. The board doesn't follow TW so every protest vote here is satisfying but wasted.

I bet if someone did throw a tennis ball, they would end up being the only one amongst a thousand WTF faces.

Suddenly Kenwright doesn't look so ill now, clapping away today and pushing the mobile phone out of the young fan's hands last week at Wembley. I hope Mr Moshiri isn't taken in by "Everton's best fan".

My radiator blew on Friday on the way down with my grandson in the car; we were towed to the hotel and then had to pay an extra night plus £600+ car bill. We got home Monday at 11:00pm.

ANd all for what? Lukaku gesturing to me to lift the atmosphere...

Talk in TDH was unanimous: Martinez has lost it and must go – now! I saw the team news – couldn't believe it went the game and, for the first time ever in following Everton since 1959, left early, as soon as I saw Hibbert coming on. It made a statement to me: no ambition, no vision.

I left before the 2nd half whistle – back to TDH. Almost everyone said they had been drained of any energy and enthusiasm by Martinez... wrung out like a dishcloth. Sick and tired of it... and I believe he will be here next season.

I renewed my Season Ticket last week with my daughter and grandson. This man and Kenwright are killing our club... strangling us... draining us... get rid before it's too late.

Do you yourself still subscribe to this view Martin, or has their continued inaction/silence when it comes to the managerial situation shaken your faith in Kenwright and co somewhat?

enjoyed your post. 'Wrung out like a dish cloth' a great descriptive phrase the sums up how so many of us feel.

I'm disappointed that as Evertonians we've not be able to co-ordinate a protest. All credit to those who sat in today. Quite disgusting the way the sound was turned up to drown out their peaceful protest.

It says everything about Kenwright: the pseudo-socialist and peoples chairman! I just hope we have – at the very least – another fly past at the Norwich game and the whole ground erupts in applause and Moshiri is there to witness it!

Today felt like a PR exercise, although with some cock-ups, like the twitter feed fiasco, that I think someone allowed to happen. We had some of the Hillsborough families present before kick-off, a load of kids dancing at halftime, other kids doing ball control drills in the corners and Joey Yobo coming back, then Tony Hibbert comes on at the start of the second half.

Personally I think a walk out would be better, or like some of my friends, refuse to go back till Martinez is gone.

I don't believe this (small minority) is the case: 95% of the 8,000 polling on TW say "out"; George McKane above reports on his local all wanting Roberto out; al around me on the train and Soccerus want him out; all around me in Upper Bullens want him out.

But the problem is coming up with an expression of contempt that all will sign up to and act on. A range of ideas on TW this last week – hankies, tennis balls, walkouts at this time or that, non-attendance etc etc. There's no one focal point that people will rally around, so no concerted action. But that doesn't mean the Martinez our brigade is a small minority.

We are treated like idiots, expected instinctively to respond to the patronising, schmaltzy stimuli of the repellent Kenwright and then ignored or drowned out when there is any whiff of protest.

We must all see this for what it is: a shameless exercise of power by a proven failure. He, Kenwright, is shitting all over us – just like his best mate, the even more repulsive Philip Green, has shat all over his "little people" – and we mustn't let it happen.

Actually, I don't think we will let it happen in the end because, when it comes to it, I think Everton fans will see that they are being shafted and will rebel, really rebel.

We must not let Kenwright get away with the lie that he has any better claim than the rest of us to the Club. He is a self-indulgent, phoney gobshite, ruthless in his own interests. We must be equally ruthless to get him and his minion out.

I watched only second half and I heard that woman's voice said something about sactioning inappropriate behavior from fans. Was anything said about protesting?

This is my fourth full season as an Everton fan, and I think that, only in that time, bad decisions from board easilly outnubmer good.

Public humiliation of a person and demanding the sacking of that person, especially someone like Roberto, whose praises were sung at Goodison not so long ago, is unedifying for a club of Everton's standing. Some of the insults thrown at him defames the club and its supporters.

I've recently read of disturbances between fellow Evertonions at matches and I have, myself, experienced threats by my fellow blues at a recent match for an innocuous request to sit down so an elderly fan could watch the match.

All this discourse, all this bad feeling, all this vitriol is embarrassing to a club priding itself on togetherness, family and loyalty. Nothing but the best is good enough, shouldn't simply refer to the standards of play on the pitch. It should apply to all of us.

On a day when the 96 were so movingly and genuinely honoured and justice celebrated, one man was singled out for dishonour and humiliation that is not deserved.

Culpability for poor performances lie with more than the manager and the responsibility to maintain the honour and traditions of a great club lie with more than those in charge. That responsibility lies with all of us.

Yours is the sort of sentimental tosh that allows frauds like Kenwright and Martinez to get away with it.

What A Manager, not a nice guy. Any other club would have fired him by now.

EFC maintaining a dignified stance and Kenwright, who appointed him, keeping out of the limelight. At least this is what I hope will happen. Times like this show us all just how little our views matter.

There is no input for the fan, you just have to pay yer money, sit in the dark and get fed shit – like being a mushroom. If only we were like some German clubs with a degree of fan ownership – and sensible ticket prices too.

Knowing our club, we will be well into the Euros when they get round to telling us that the next manager will be.... Roy Hodgson!

No I am not happy with things as they are.I regret,for example,that we are not contesting the FA Cup Fnal. But this type of gimmickry we saw today is just designed to get publicity. And given the type of media we have they will get it.But it is a minority (100).It is not representative and therefore not democratic.

On a personal level I object to the chant "Martinez get of our club"Since when did 100 supporters decide they could speak for nearly 40,000 others?

In football terms, Martinez should be given at least 2 more years.He has brought young players on and needs time to develop that process (don't forget that Moyes sidelined Ross from the squad,not just the 1st team). Others like Lukaku were going nowhere until Martinez persuaded the club to gamble big money on him.

And finally I do believe there is such a thing as human values and Martinez has shown these in abundance in the face of totally unwarranted abuse-strength, tenacity and dignity.

Disappointed

How dare you try to bring in the sad emotions of what happened 27 years ago, I like most lost friends that day and I think about them often

Today's justified protest has absolutely nothing to do with today's tribute that's wy EFC shows its class as a football club

However that aside I condone every protest / plane / banner going as this phoney had to go as does that clown of a chairman

I'm sick to death of the both of them

And shame on anyone to use the tribute as reason not to protest

It's people like you who are happy to put up with this mediocre crap why we are in the position we are.

If I was Moshiri I'd tell him to go and fucking swivel, sack the useless Spanish twat now and tell KJB he does not have a controlling share anymore so keep your fat fucking gob shut.

It's not dignified to go all supine and then pretend it's "classy" behaviour. It's disgusting, cowardly, lazy and many other pejoratives besides. But for you to try to defend Martinez, decent man though he ostensibly is (although I posit that if he were truly honourable, he would walk away), in the name of today's sensitive context, is thoroughly disgusting. Many of us are not looking Martinez hanged, drawn and quartered; we merely wish to see him removed from his office. Don't conflate anger with his performance with hatred for the man.

I am weary of hearing vapid tripe about "rising above" or not being "like Kopites". I confess to all of you right now, I would gladly be more like them if it meant we had Klopp, their budget, their stadium redevelopment, their ambition and their trophy haul. Besides which, who says organised protest is undignified per se anyway? Where is the absolute moral imperative against it? The whole force of that stupid argument is in the affirmation, not in any objective logic.

So... Bill Kenwright is a repulsive, duplicitous enemy of Everton, meaning his utter removal and hounding from the club is long overdue. The same goes for his rotten entourage and the whole stinking suite of ancillary claptrap, including the psyop that self-censorship is the noble, Evertonian antithesis to trashy Kopite affirmative action. Until the club is de-Kenwright-ised, we will go on languishing in an ever lengthening red shadow thanks to people like Mark Palmer for doing their bit to keep it that way.

Interesting point about the person in the club shop (if true of course). If the decision was split and Moshiri wants him out it is a pity that he is not a director or he could have voted him out.

Yes, fans should act to certain level of decency, but, like any business, the example has to be set from the top down. Bill has treated the fans like second class citizens. Roberto is unqualified for the highly paid position he has, and continually makes comments that patronise and antagonise supporters. Don't even get me started on Elstone. Why should the fans (paying customers) be expected to act in a certain way when the hierarchy of the club obviously have no intention of doing their job for us.

I'm fed up with hearing about Roberto being a nice bloke; so what? The world is full of them – give me a horrible bastard like SAF any day of the week.

MARTINEZ AND KENWRIGHT OUT – SOONEST

He has been trying to sell the club for years he says....I do not think he has made any attempt to do so, only his recent illness has caused him to to bring in another owner. Martinez is rubbish and has to go, but only when Bill is ready....the close season is beckoning.

If you want change and have renewed your season ticket then you are likely to be disappointed.

Moshiri will soon act if season ticket renewals plummet.

On top of this we have 'banner bans'? Bill Kenwright should be ashamed of himself if he was a 'true blue' he would be approaching the protesters and listening to their concerns, not censoring them.

The man has got too big for his boots, he comes across as a smug know it all who looks down his nose at the average fan.

This club will not shake off the 'small club mentality' until this man is gone. I used to respect the man but no more after this season. Martinez isn't the problem it's Kenwright.

Kenwright out.

However, I'm moved to write today by the complete and utter twaddle appearing from some people.

Of course you've got no say in when/how to fire the manager — that's because you don't own or run the business [my guess is that you haven't paid a penny for a share]. Don't give me that old nonsense about deserving some influence because you buy a ticket — do you turn up with airplane banners at the cinema when you don't think Leo's as good in this as he was in that? Or stand outside the BBC when you don't like an episode of something? Of course not.

I happen to agree that it'd be great if we could be owners a la some German clubs — but, if you want to make that happen, like me, you have to get off your arse and organise such a thing instead of lazily slagging off the latest bloke in charge [who you were probably praising just as loudly at one point]. Like me, you haven't done it, or anything like it other than dopey banners and plane stunts.

I know what it is to be a fan, I know about passion, I have a miserable Saturday when we give it up in the last minute, I hate the absurd sense of privilege and entitlement of most Liverpool fans who weren't alive when they last had a great team; but I get over it because it's a game.

Martinez may not look like he walks on water just now, but... he never did. He was a punt by the owners, just like the next guy will be. Van Gaal was supposed to be a guaranteed succes after Moyes — a case of doing it the right way, ie pick a big-ass name. How's that working out? Same with Klippety. And I wouldn't count on Pep at City, or Jose if he goes to United.

If we fire Martinez, EXACTLY AS MARK SAYS, the club that today showed its typical class with the Hillsborough tribute [by the way, does anyone think Liverpool fans would be doing this if the show were on the other foot?] should handle that act with similar class and dignity. That's the Everton way and, if we don't have an Everton way, what's the point in supporting us?

How time flies… in the last 10 days we have lost all track of time, spending much of it creating and promoting a website as a way for each fan (who wanted) to protest on MASS. This can be downloaded into either into your phone or a small poster. It took so much time getting sorted, that we had to travel up to Goodison this morning as the sun rose and still have another hour or two to get home. Putting the game and lack of atmosphere aside, it became obvious how much we have under estimated Chairman Bill's regime and Martinez aptitude at the art of PR. As the afternoon progressed, it soon became obvious that whatever the outcome on the pitch, this was not the day for Everton fans to express their views.

On the up side, I have just noticed over 200 people signed up to our SACK Martinez NOW petition after the match… and we are now off to get shitfaced at a party. After that it's time for a slight adjustment, before we re-convene our campaign to rid our club of this guy.

Sleep well tonight Roberto, for tomorrow it's adiós…

The majority on here want Roberto out! So why weren't you clapping when the plane flew over? Why didn't you stay behind after the game.
Unless you pull your finger out at the Norwich game, you'll be watching championship football in 18 months time. The same lads are demonstrating after the Norwich game and I hope it starts during the parade.

I've got a very bad feeling that Kenwright is going to ride out the last three games, hoping it will be all forgotten when the new season starts. If I'm correct, I'll have to find something else to do on a w-end. At least I won't be pissed off nearly every saturday night !

So, onto if he was sacked. I am working on the assumption the same deal is going through, am sure the actual paperwork will be huge and take a bit of time to get through.

However, I really do not think it is a help to not be aware that all matters will be subject to the sanction of the new Controlling Director, and just because he is not on the Board means almost nothing, his proxy is in place and even if the rest, as limited as that is, vote against him, the proxy will simply pull out the Ace of Diamonds and win. Lovely though sort of one man one vote sounds, it is like, I own 49.9%, let's add up your shares. Winner takes all.

The shite football compounds the frustration felt at the new saviour of the club (Moshuri) doing fuck all, but subjecting us to more of the same bullshit we've had for years!

They say the hope kills you, we'll I'm dead. I have no hope, as I cannot see a day when we'll be free of Kenwright and his fucking band of numb bastards. I don't even feel anger anymore, just a sense of loss as I've mentally given up hope!

Martinez out? Kenwright out?? Nope!! I'm out! No more money from my household....

The board are an odious bunch of twats with BK by far the biggest. You only have to look the unfolding story regarding BHS and the role played by 'friend of Everton' Sir Philip Green to realise what characters are at play. Perhaps Moshiri is from the same mould and things will just continue as they have been. My big worry is that the shares might only have changed hands, but that's all and their will be no real inward investment in the club other than from the tv money and outgoing transfers.

Well done to those that stayed behind today. I wish I had done the same in lower bullets, but its difficult with two youngsters with me and I don't really want them to witness too much negativity around the club, although that might change after the Norwich game!

This is the lowest I have been in 53 years as a blue and I can't help but think it's going to be this way for the foreseeable.

Until Kenwrong had gone

Nobody renew

My guess is the management change will happen after the last game.

I read that too and hopefully it will not be Löw (poor club management history). We'll run out of money trying to buy the German team if he gets appointed!

A bit cautious if it's Pellegrini. I feel that, whoever comes on board, since it won't be our dream picks, will have to be given a short leash to worth with however bigger it is than what we have in previous years.

Focus on Moshiri. I’m suggesting from 7,000 miles away, that any visible protest at the final game at Goodison, be aimed at Moshiri. The two mentioned above no longer count.

“Mr. Moshiri TAKE CHARGE”; “Moshiri, Act NOW!” That sort of thing. He controls our immediate future. Kenwright and Martinez are ciphers.

There’s talk here about his experience as an owner based on Arsenal. He was a shareholder with the flex at Arsenal as our own Kenrick has at Everton as a shareholder. None.

A man who’s made his way in the world, Moshiri is. In his few weeks on the scene, he has a supporter base drained, a manager who seems to send out 11 players with “Go get them boys” and nothing much else, and (critically) a squad in need of major turnover.

This is what’s in front of him, Moshiri. Kenwright and Roberto are meaningless.

Moshiri is the key. No one else.

As long as that charlatan is still in charge, I will not be buying any Everton shirts or other merchandise. I vote with my money.

Regular European football in the new era was perhaps our pinnacle. The regularity of knocking on the door of the top four and Goodison being a tough place to go, is all the success we've had in decades. The high expectations of some supporters bemuses me. If we were a wealthy club, I'd expect regular success but I don't at the moment.

Maybe that's it for us. We don't have a divine right to join the top table. The biggest disappointment of late is that, despite two semi-finals, we've had little to cheer about.

Leicester's 'Moneyball' season aside, the Premier League is manifestly an unfair, loaded game that allows only the wealthiest to succeed.

There's a way to beat the game that includes shrewd tactics, team spirit and excellence on the field of play. Unfortunately, too many times, one of these components have been missing from Everton this season. And often, all three. What is most obvious to the fans is the incompetence of the players. Mistakes, bad control, missed passes, bad finishing, losing possession have all been in ample supply. Yet I've heard nobody demand the sacking of a player.

My object is that one person has been targeted for blame when the culpability lies with others too. And, if Evertonians don't like what they see (and God knows we've been terrible to watch most of the time) then don't show up to watch. Why make the millionaire under-achievers any richer on our hard-earned wages?

"Does anybody think Liverpool fans would do the same if the shoe...."

Well yes I do.

I get fed up with this class bollocks and seperating ourselves based on the grounds of superior ideals and beliefs. I go to away matches and, believe me, there's nothing classy about a bunch of pissed up football fans who can be very anti-PC to put it mildly.

No, it's nothing short of clutching at straws; we need to feel superior about something because our football is atrocious.

I would gladly sacrifice this ideal or faux belief as I see it, for a hard nosed competitive business model, putting success first.

Btw Kenwright thinks he's directing one of his West End plays and comes across as a disengenuous sleeze.

Martínez

Gross spend of £100m since Everton manager. Net spend of £50m (Moyes had a net spend under £2m per year over the course of his time at EFC). Wages have risen from £63 million under Martinez to £77 million, but Martinez recently claimed “We gave young players big roles and have not invested money but managed assets”- the average age of the squad has actually risen under Martinez: from 25.5 in 2012 before his arrival, to 26.7 in 2013, 26.6 in 2014, and 26.8 in 2015. In truth, we haven’t had a year when we’ve had more minutes for younger players than the previous season since back in 2007.

Worst home campaign in our entire 138 year history. Even with two games left to potentially improve it! Taking previous campaigns at a return of 3 points per win, our previous worst ever home campaigns were in 1957/58 and 1888/89 when we won 24 points. It’s over 12 months since we won back to back home games, but IF we won our final two home games, we’d still fall short of 24 points. Oh, and it was only a 22 game season in 1888/89 when we got 24 points at home. 1957/58 was a 42 game season, in fairness.

We’ve allowed more shots on target against us than every side in the league except for Newcastle, Villa and Sunderland. There’s every chance Newcastle and Sunderland will be playing Championship football with Villa next August.

No side have conceded more in the last 15 minutes of games (15).

No side wins less aerial balls per game than us (12.6). We concede 0.41 headed goals per game (14 total): more than anyone else in the league. Next closest is Villa (0.31 per game, 11 total- having played a game more than us).

We’re the only side in the league not to score from a free kick crossed in.

On course for back to back bottom half finishes for the first time since the 2000/01 and 2001/02 seasons under Walter Smith. Smith’s squads included the likes of Paul Gerrard, Alessandro Pistone, Niclas Alexandersson, Tomasz Radzinski, Mark Pembridge, Scot Gemmill, Alec Cleland, and Tobias Linderoth.

We’re on course for less than 50 points in back to back seasons – last time that happened was through 2000/01 and 2001/02 seasons. Moyes finished with less than 50 points only once in eleven seasons.

Win percentages have dropped each season: 55.3% in 2013/14, 31.6% in 2014/15, and currently stands at 26.4% in 2015/16

Points return has dropped each season: 72 in 2013/14, 47 in 2014/15, on course for 46 in 2015/16

Goals against have gone up every season: 39 in 2013/14, 50 in 2014/15 on course for 54 in 2015/16. Prior to Martinez, the last time we conceded 50(+) in a season was 2003/04 when we finished 17th with 39 points having conceded 57.

We’ve conceded 2 goals within 7 minutes of each other on 10 occasions this season- when heads go, they go

In the seven months (and 27 league games) since beating West Brom 3-2 on 28th September, we’ve only won once against sides not in the bottom 3: a 3-0 win away to Stoke (currently one place above us in the league). Wins home and away v Newcastle and Aston Villa, and a home win against Sunderland in that time.

Points per game return for Martinez in his time with us split into chunks:

Games 1-20: 38 points- 1.9 PPG

Games 21-40: 36 points- 1.8 PPG

Games 41-60: 21 points- 1.05 PPG

Games 61-80: 29 points- 1.45 PPG

Games 81-100: 27 points- 1.35 PPG

Games 101-110: 9 points- 0.9 PPG'

Following on from you said Mark, I don't mind if they play crap now and again but it's the work ethic and spirit, tackling I wanna see, tactical awareness which by the way has never there under RM.

Personally I expect we should be challenging in the top 6/7 every season competing for Euro League spot and see what happens there after. If that was possible this season then who knows what would have happened.

Look at Hibbert yesterday – that is what we want see, heart, passion, strong tackling. Did you hear the crowd when he made those tackle's (that's how to get goodison rocking) and the football will follow suit. Not pussy footing about and scared to make a tackle.

Mark, You also mentioned incompetence of the players, which by the way are the same group of players for the last three years so they are competent Ÿ we know they are good players so the incompetence lies with the Management.

During training they are supposed to work on bad control, possession etc, tactics, finishing. So if Martinez can't identify what a player/team needs to work on to improve there game then he is just as bad. We know that most time in training is spent on possession football not necessarily passing and moving just possession football. There is no movement in the team. So if these mistakes are still being made week in week out then the quality of training must be crap – again it's a coaching issue and therefore coaches are to blame.

Example – against the RS at corners Baines was marking Sakho and again yesterday he marking the tallest player and there were no players on the post, corners were terrible and have been all season – are you kidding me!!!! Highest level of manager incompetence ever not to work on all areas of the game at the highest level is a fucking disgrace.

These professionals like to be told what to do, they want structure, which under Martinez we know it's just work it out for yourself!!!

So we know it's there it's just being able to get it out of them..

But during the Norwich game it should be on massively!!!

Anyone saying protest is the not the Everton way - I think you mean the Kenwright way.

Replacing the one guy who kept us from the drop though will be tough.

Quietly optimistic about new manager. Can we do much worse than Roberto? Only if we brought Mercenary Mo back!

I have already sent it to a couple of Press contacts (although one is RS so not sure how or if he will use it) but 'get it out there' asap. The pressure may have' eased' following defeat of the mighty Bournemouth but the major problems (Martinez and Kenwright) very much remain.

Good onya, lad!

They are the owners though and it's their call, we can protest but we're weak and divided. You can see from yesterday that this isn't a mass spontaneous protest and most Evertonians don't really support it. Same at the Emirates yesterday there were a few activists and they were shouted down by the crowd.

Dave, when we were relegated in 29-30 didn't we have a committee instead of a manager, something that was quite common in those days?

I'm more of the belief that he will let Kenwright hang himself on the alter of Roberto's bloody philosophy before he moves in to protect his investment.

Any early decision to remove the manager (before next season) will have to be by mutual agreement and I just can't see Kenwright agreeing to termination until HE sees the Club is in real trouble.

Make no mistake, yesterday's was a massive result for Martinez (Kenwright is probably selling it to Moshiri as an Oxford moment!) and the preparation that went into the management of the post match protest had 'Kenwright' all over it!

No doubt Mr Snake Oil would squirm his way out if confronted with the statistics. Phenomenal indeed.

Do not let the nay sayers distract your efforts and like any movement, you will find yourselves in a small minority at the beggining, but as Brent Stephens says, it is likely your voices reflect the views of so many more. You may see greater support for your actions as time goes on.

I also want to say how much class the whole ground displayed, from the observation of the Hillsborough tribute, to the support for the team during 90 mins, to the leaving the vocal protests at the end.

This was a clear illustration of what Jay Woods says in his eloquent post - that the frustrations shown towards Martinez were not conflated with anything else - which Mark Palmer tried, and failed, to do as a means of criticising the dissent shown.

Recognise that there is room for differences of opinion but those supporters who adopt the 'we are Everton we don't complain' approach are misguided. Also to criticise supporters who engaged in a peaceful protest is quite unbelievable.

I havent spoken to a single supporter who doesn't want Martinez out. Obviously they do exist – you only have to read Pete Murray and Mark Palmer on this thread. Clearly they believe the Everton motto refers to the pies sold in the ground rather than the Club's ambition and aims. They therefore deserve all the committed and forceful response they get.

We've seen from TW polls how universal is the dissatisfaction with Martinez and his benefactor Kenwright so despite what Pete and Mark say they are massively in the minority.

I still feel our real problem is the co-ordination of a response and anyone is capable of making this happen. As a minimum but effective gesture I suggest a massive round of applause if there's a fly past at the Norwich game.

Last night on MotD all three of them (Lineker, Jenas and Murphy) all agreed that they liked the Martinez philosophy but, it doesn't work in this country.

Note to Our Editors: there are occasionally some great posts like this which I look for later but can't find (Amit Vithlani on our finances; one or two guys on the construction engineering possibilities around GP redevelopment; etc). Great factual posts. I wonder if Editors could find a place to store those they think worthy of revisiting at times ("Posts We Have Loved"!), easily found on an internal search, perhaps under a separate tab at the top of the website.

I think we know which caller was talking through his arse!

As to the game itself, I was so detached from it that I was almost on County Road that it dawned on me that we'd actually won. To Kenwright, shame on you – you are no more an Evertonian than was your despicable friend Phillip Green.

He's good at putting on a smiling "We're all one big family of Blues" face, until someone, or a group of supporters, say or do something to show that he is charlatan. We then see the other side (the real True Blue Bill's gob) when he turns nasty.

This man is alright when we all fall for the dream he relates about how great a club we are. Dare to show the truth and phones get ripped out of hands, music blares out to drown out fans, shareholders AGMs are suspended, and bilge comes out when he told us Goodison Park wouldn't get a safety certificate, when the Kirkby Project was laid before us. Plenty of not quite true "information" in that lot of propaganda.

Whatever our feelings are regarding Roberto Martinez it is the man who hired him that I despise and want to see out of our club. I'm hoping that Mr Moshiri will prove to be just the man to bring us back on the road to being a Club I can take pride in again. Well, I'll have to wait and see; but if he acts like the Yanks over the Park, then that'll do for me. He can start by taking over from this egotistical shyster we have now.

As for Roberto Martinez, well, I wanted him to succeed and in the first season, I really bought in to his style of football, even though I thought we played it too slow out of the back. My thought was that the players would speed up as they got used to the passing game.

Second season, I thought the season was disrupted by a number of long term injuries. This season started with a mixture of frustration and occasionally (very occasionally) elation.

What really did it for me was the episode with Baines, on top of other excuses and blame that Martinez came up with; and also the evidence on the pitch that we were going nowhere.

To me, he should have been relieved of duties before the Semi-Final and Joe Royle put in charge, with perhaps Peter Reid brought in to work with the "spirit" side that the players look as though they are in need of.

Anyway, I think we need a new manager and I can't see Martinez being kept on after the next few games.

What I think is happening though, is that we are magnifying every word, every passage or phrase Martinez comes up with, and every poor passage of play, and getting more and more wound up with the desire for it to end by laying it at the feet of Martinez.

The man is just that, a man, and he's a mixture of good points and and bad. Though generally, I think he's tried his best for the club and he's just not up to it.

The man who has (had?) the power to relieve Martinez should have acted before now (what'd he say "What a Manager") but hung the lad out to dry instead.

He's taking all the flack while El Supremo lays on a show for "the Everton Family" at half times and smiles his condescending smile to the masses.

So, for me, if Martinez stays, it's because of Kenwright and he's the man who has seen this club wallow in the mire. Unless he gets thrown out of any power he still has, that's where I fear we'll remain.

Take control Mr Moshiri. If you want to see this club become a success, then you'll have to be the one to lead it.

We need a concerted effort, as time and opportunity is running out. It's obvious that the Board are supporting Martinez for now and running towards the closing door of the end of season. Not for one moment, do I think they will make a change then.

Although staying behind was a great gesture, that's all it was. Now it is being peddled that we are a few, misinformed, blah, blah, blah bollocks by the PR machine that is feeding the media. Let's get this straight, we the fans own Everton Football Club, always have, always will. From time to time, people buy into this great club and as is their right they make money from it. BUT, they are only custodians.

It's US allowing the media and these lucky few to push this line. If the fans didn't turn up, there's no package to sell. Ask Blackburn, a team that bought the title but had a piss poor fan base.

Based on previous experience, Chairman Bill's poor treatment of our club's fans to demonstrate their opinions was no surprise. We have to be smarter than them. We have prepared a website, which clearly states our opinion and a facility to join us by signing our petition to sack Martinez.

More importantly, we are looking to gain momentum in getting our voices heard. To counter their ham-fisted tactics and make things easy for us to demonstrate we aim for, hundreds, no thousands of fans would download this simple message into their phones. I'd like them to search for that!

Can someone explain to me what it means? Does it include 21 years without silverware? Playing in a dump of a ground that has been left to rust? Supporters not being able to purchase merchandise? Being on a par with Southampton, Stoke or Watford?

I've got to be honest, this sentimental bullshit is a smokescreen for failure on a grand scale. If you listen to Neville Southall, he will tell you exactly how the club should be ran. Now there's a man who knows what this club is all about - all this crap about "the Everton way" doesn't mean anything. Some Blues like to act like a sentimental drunk in the corner. Maybe we can get to 50 years potless following "The Everton way?"

"Don't give me that old nonsense about deserving some influence because you buy a ticket — do you turn up with airplane banners at the cinema when you don't think Leo's as good in this as he was in that? Or stand outside the BBC when you don't like an episode of something? Of course not."

Are you taking the piss? Likening supporting Everton to following Masterchef? Do you go to the game? Most ridiculous I've seen posted in a long time.

How about everyone else more pissed off with Eastenders or the Blues?

If he's learning, as he says, then why are we progressively getting worse? Doesn't take much imagination to work out where we'll be in the near future of he's not shown the door.

Never mind the crowd being bored shitless every game.

What a season…. What expectation…. What Opportunity…. What oh yeah, over the years we must lead the table for forming Champions guards of honour.

I'll settle for a draw….

As an ardent horse racing form nerd, I'm aware that form isn't everything, but when it is compelling you have to take notice. If a racehorse had these stats, it would be straight off to the glue factory.

A wonderfulyl factual, statistical expose of Martinez's work. Take a bow, sir!

As for not many applauding when the plane flew over, well I sit in Upper Bullens and though I could hear the aircraft we never got sight of the banner or the aircraft.

The tribute to the Hillsborough families was excellent, and I wonder if that dampened the reason why there were very little protests during the game.

I would have hoped that the board would have come to a decision to dispense with Martinez at the end of the season and made an announcement saying just that.

But in the light of no announcement then we will need to crank up the protests massively for the Norwich game. Otherwise RMs comments that the silent majority are backing him, may resonate with an apathetic board.

I know some say its not the Everton way to protest well I guess they weren't around in the period when cushions often rained down on a regular basis. Maybe we should look at the other lot over the park. They successfully got rid of Hicks and Gillette, then also through their protests got rid of Hodgson and Rodgers, and now have a top coach in place.

Personally I am dumbfounded that this has happened - the board shows a complete lack of ambition in staying with a manager who appears (to my mind) to have lost the dressing room and the fans and who is incapable of delivering to the talent in the squad. What will happen now is that the best players are disillusioned, they will leave in the summer, Roberto will have an even worse start to next season, then finally (and too fucking late) be sacked and then Everton will have no Rom, no Barkley, no Stones, no Mirallas and no sodding chance.

Bite the bullet and get shot of Martinez now - give the squad a chance to have some hope for the future!!

I was just really having a gentle nudge at Martin, he's okay but suggests this and that about protests and hasn't been to Goodison Park all season, I know he lives a long way from Liverpool but you'd think he'd show his face at least once a season.

There is still one game to go Martin, get your angry head on and come and have a go at the manager you don't like.

Bill Dean scored no less than 107 league goals over those three seasons and a further 12 in the FA Cup. Ted Sagar kept goal in all but 4 games and stayed as a player with the club until 1953.

All of it amazing !

He MUST go.

As final comment regarding protests etc - as another poster or two have said - why doe we not have banners demanding answers from BK/Moshiri rather than 'Martinez out'.

"PLEASE EVERTON TELL US WHAT'S HAPPENING" - That would fit behind a plane.

If RM stays it will not sway me one jot from Everton but I will have to temper my fanaticism next year in the interests of my health and well being.

Just a number crunching exercise. Meaningful research contains both the quantative and the qualitative. You have selectively only used the former. Try the latter one as well.

It appeared (from my seat in the MS4 Section) one minute before half time and disappeared during the break.

Consequently Bullshit Bill & Bobby the Shoe were predictably elswhere.

I did stand and applaud the plane and its truthful banner.

With respect, you're missing the point. It's not about the difference between Master Chef and Everton. I made my comparisons precisely to show the lack of logic in that thinking.

There's two issues here:

1. If you want to protest about the manager, don't be so oafish as to do it to his face in such a crude, dumb way – he may or may not be the best manager, but he's been nothing but respectful to you and your right to an opinion, so behave like an adult and try to do the same.

2. If you believe you deserve influence, try a slightly more creative way to exert it; like, um, not going to the match.

Perhaps sometimes 'kopite behaviour' is prudent behaviour. I neither know nor care whether Mr Martinez is a nice person but I do know that he is a very limited manager and needs to go now.

Peter, those stats don't need any explanation, clarification or commentary for me. They seem to speak for themselves.

I see what you mean about this number crunching lark proving nothing meaningful. I've just crunched ALL the data from ALL the games of ALL the teams in the Prem, and then ranked them in a sort of league table. Would you believe it? Leicester come out on top. We're 11th - equal with Watford.

Then I recollect what the modern game is about and what I have known for a long time, but often choose to forget. It is all about the getting of money by people wholly devoted to that exercise. They do not care about the supporters at all, and any pretence to the contrary is guff.

We have in Kenwright an old style Northern chairman, full of shit and with his hand firmly on his wallet (set to be filled by the recent share purchase) and in Moshiri we have a man who is an accountant and who will not have to invest very much to engineer a significant profit from tv money and from simply maintaining Everton in the premier league.

That is the Kenwright model and I fear Moshiri has bought into it. Sit tight, ignore the noisy fans (though be sure to throw them some EFC in the Community titbits and distractions, especially at half-time when things can often be awkward) and, in due course, press "collect". Don't, above all, take any unnecessary risks.

That is why we are where we are, and have been for a long time, and why a smiling fantasist like Martinez is just fine thank you very much.

There are, of course, always just enough disciples and dupes available to provide cover.

Enough has been written but this short video clip - on a completely different breaking news subject - perfectly sums up how I feel about all things Everton at present.

Link

I understand you looking after your daughter, I hope she has a happy life despite her handicap, I have an older brother who is severely mentally handicapped but he enjoys life thanks to excellent carers and never fails to make me laugh despite his handicap.

Good luck and good health Martin.

It is especially true that the Echo is fudging its position and is consistently afraid or unwilling to nail its colours to the mast. It surely cannot be that they have no particular opinion either way, can it?

We would stand a better chance of forcing Kenwright's/Moshiri's hand if the media, notably the main local paper, were to take a bold line - assuming that they do support the fans' view. If they don't support it, then they should say so with reasons.

At the moment, they are taking a dishonourable line. Perhaps either Mr Prentice or someone else from the paper could come on here and respond.

Can the Echo stand alone and say what it wants to say or do they have guidance from Trinity Mirror about what they can and cannot print?

Not sure personally, I don't know but that could answer your question maybe? Conspiracy! Over to you editor of the Echo.

We did though spend yesterday with a very good friend, who we met a few years ago at GP but who has been absent for some weeks. In his 70s he spoke of how he was enthusiastic about renewing for another season and how he would try to see as many games as he can despite a two hour round trip from Manchester. He is suffering from a type of cancer that is terminal, but which requires debilitating three monthly treatments that serve to slow its spread. The prognosis now is that because of his age he is more likely to go through natural causes before it finally claims him. So having been given a thorough, shaming lesson it what it really means to be a Blue I will be renewing our tickets tomorrow.

Scary stuff! Definitely time to go.

"Everton are 32 points behind Leicester and if the charge against Martínez is that he is too wedded to one way of thinking, too lax when it comes to defensive structure and too damn stubborn to do anything about it, it is certainly not eased by a story I heard in the last few days about his time managing Wigan Athletic.

"You might remember their 9-1 defeat against Tottenham at White Hart Lane in November 2009, a record defeat for Wigan, a few months after Martínez was put in charge. What is not so widely known is that in the dressing room afterwards Martínez told his players – whose mood, it is fair to say, was collective bewilderment – to continue playing exactly the same way. Wigan duly conceded 79, 61, 62 and 73 goals in his four seasons while Everton are far too vulnerable in the same way. Martínez undoubtedly has qualities but, equally, it is a damning indictment that Leicester's seven clean sheets from their past nine league games is as many as Everton have managed since September.

"Martínez is singled out because of the widespread belief this is Everton's finest squad for many years but, in fairness, they are far from the only club who could learn a thing or two from the way Ranieri has set up his team."

It's another 'Saturday dilemma' but not quite as bad as when beating Man City may have handed the title to LFC a couple of years ago. Mind you, at that time I gave a monkeys about EFC's results. I'm not sure I care much about the rest of this season (and it pains me to write that). I hope Leicester win the league.

I'd still prefer to see Spurs win the title but if it's to be Leicester I hope they don't win it by beating us.

Like I said, I'm not too bothered if Leicester win it it but I'm more inclined towards Spurs. I can't stand their fans btw.

David #164 - which 'reasoned posts' are these?

If you read my post above this might explain the Echo's stance that you alluded to in your post at 151.

It's a shame that everyone is so in thrall to Kenwright and that there is a cosy club of insiders. If the Board deigned to say anything, of course, then it would at least remove that particular frustration.

I don't like any of the big London clubs, they're all a bit arrogant in my opinion who think the Capital is the be all.

Leicester's season has been incredible and I hope they do it.

Tony (#151) – couldn't agree more and I posted something similar in a comment after Prentice's last piece. David Maddocks is in Kenwright's pocket. I emailed him when he wrote an article stating Moyes knew about Ferguson going months before (from Man Utd) and Kenwright being very angry about it. He did reply and implied that he had got the story straight from Kenwright.

He's got years of form just toeing Kenwright's line.

Our fans have proven time and time again that the overwhelming majority are not political animals, they are only interested in going to the match.
They will voice their displeasure if we are shite , but Tennis balls ? Walk outs/ Sit ins/Social media hysteria . .Snotty hankies (still struggling with the absurdity of that one) ?.

Give them a cushion and they will hurl it to show their displeasure on the way out, but most of them have no clue or interest as to what is happening behind the scenes.
Look at the protest from the blue union? Those guys worked their arses off to draw attention to the problems at this club, for what ? what percentage of the 40,000 crowds actively supported them ?

And what about Kirkby ? Sure KEIOC were supported by those of us who listened to the compelling evidence they presented to us . . .but despite a monumental effort, the visible support for them on match days was difficult to find . . people actually applauded when Kenwright's boat was put up on the screen.
I suspect the majority of match going Evertonians simply check out the OS before they set of for work for their updates.

I'm convinced the overwhelming majority of match going Evertonians want Martinez sacked, but they will never protest in the sort of numbers you saw at the Emirates yesterday. Maybe it's because they choose blissful ignorance over discontented knowledge or supposed knowledge concerning off field matters ?

Or maybe its about maintaining a dignity which doesn't exist at other clubs ? who knows ?

The fact is; Despite the hype, the hand wringing, the hair pulling, the absurd suggestions on how Goodison should demonstrate its discontent . . less than 0.25 % of Saturdays crowd were prepared to give their first post match pint a miss

100% in agreement with you Darren. Our fans reflect our team and manager ie too nicey nicey. Other clubs fans would've been going ballistic a while ago while Goodison sometimes reminds me of a WI meeting, comparing cakes and knitting patterns whilst reading The Guardian!

The tennis ball demonstration was never going to garner great support but a simple rendition of "Champions League you're having a laugh" aimed at Roberto may have worked. I also think that the local media are less likely to flag up issues about Everton or take a view on behalf of the fans. When our neighbours are having difficulties the local hacks are usually the first to bang the drum and the rest of the national media follows, also the fans of those across the park seem to have an organised supporters group ready to spring into action at the first sign of any move by their club which they consider to be a backward step.

Evertonians on the other hand seem to have become so used to the Kenwright way that they don't see the point of challenging what is in effect, trying to ask a dictator to alter his world view, add to the fact that the club hasn't come close to success for over two-decades, a club that has seen Goodison physically deteriorate, a club that has failed to move to a new stadium, a club that has enjoyed very few victories on the soil of richer rivals, and a club that has struggled to have prolific goalscorers on its books for any sustained or significant period of time.

Those listed facts have generally been accepted by the majority of Evertonians for such a long period of time that it's little wonder that those that do see the issues are prone to bottle up their disenchantment and anger to internalise rather than demonstrate it verbally or physically.

The do-nothing club are sadly those people who actually have owned the club for the last couple of decades and they have failed to provide any real excitement or leadership for Evertonians for the whole of that period.

Whether things actually change under the new largest shareholder we don't yet know, but one thing we do know is that Goodison will be pretty near to capacity for the majority of games next season whatever the new shareholder brings to the table no matter who happens to be in charge of the first-team.

Those people who are happy to go to the game and leave the politics and finances of the club to activists and 'trouble-makers' will argue that they are truly supporting the club by spending their hard-earned cash and passing through the turnstiles each and every week, It is difficult to make a case that they should be doing more.

Unfortunately the board doesn't seem to appreciate those fans and the team has recently forgotten that they take to the pitch to represent those supporters who 'go the game' it is detrimental to the club and the fans that such a situation exists.

It is now up to the board to look beyond the numbers and bottom lines and realise that the soul of the club has and is being eaten away game by game, year on year and that somehow it has to make decisions which will re-ignite the passion of the players and supporters,

If it fails to address those issues Everton will drift into the waters that Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday et al have found themselves in and that cannot be allowed to happen - if the match attending fans don't feel the need to stop the drift, I can only hope that those in charge do - anybody got a life raft?

Why criticise the fans when ultimately it is the board's abject mediocrity that ensures that success will always (under the current regime) equate to PL survival at EFC?

EFC's board are in a very privileged position. There is no alternative product and loyalty is built on history, childhood memories, family ties and habitual match-going routines (the journey, the pre-match pint, half time pie, after-match analysis and moan). With the Sky money they will care less and less about the fans.

Sad but - IMHO - true. I hope Moshiri changes things for the better.

Colin #183

Re: other clubs' fans would have been going ballistic a while ago.

Hang on.
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you a RM supporter up to about 6 weeks ago?